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View Full Version : Forced cockpit view in "Pro" rooms discussion (from Patch 2.0 notes discussion)



Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:30
It saddens me that you think that somehow the bumper cam makes it easier, does that mean that the pro lobbies will only allow people on a single screen as opposed to a 3 screen set up as the increased view definitely makes it easier? You have stopped me being able to race in a pro lobby for a daft reason. I am not a happy customer right now.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:31
please see my latest post about this as I have asked about a 3 screen setup, which must be a driving aid as it increases your view. Is this to be banned next?

Umer Ahmad
24-06-2015, 16:33
please see my latest post about this as I have asked about a 3 screen setup, which must be a driving aid as it increases your view. Is this to be banned next?

Game already has FOV adjusment, it is not banned

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:33
I feel that it is a serious situation as it is making it impossible for me to be competitive as I am not used to the cockpit view so my lap times will suffer

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:34
right so if this is not banned then how come I am not allowed to use bumper view? The game has that as well you know.

Umer Ahmad
24-06-2015, 16:37
right so if this is not banned then how come I am not allowed to use bumper view? The game has that as well you know.

Because it's an external camera?

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:41
and? I have always driven in bumper view, why do I have to change what I do, because you think it is giving me an advantage. Your statement was that 3 screens is allowed because fov is in the game. Bumper view is in the game and I cant use it. I have just bought a new gpu (£500) and a new wheel setup (£180) so I can play this game as good as I can. Now I can't drive in the view that I am used to so basically I have to start from scratch. This is a sucky situation.

Ian Bell
24-06-2015, 16:41
and? I have always driven in bumper view, why do I have to change what I do, because you think it is giving me an advantage. Your statement was that 3 screens is allowed because fov is in the game. Bumper view is in the game and I cant use it. I have just bought a new gpu (£500) and a new wheel setup (£180) so I can play this game as good as I can. Now I can't drive in the view that I am used to so basically I have to start from scratch. This is a sucky situation.

It sounds like hell on earth mate.

theitalian06
24-06-2015, 16:43
and? I have always driven in bumper view, why do I have to change what I do, because you think it is giving me an advantage. Your statement was that 3 screens is allowed because fov is in the game. Bumper view is in the game and I cant use it. I have just bought a new gpu (£500) and a new wheel setup (£180) so I can play this game as good as I can. Now I can't drive in the view that I am used to so basically I have to start from scratch. This is a sucky situation.

Who/What is stopping you from using bumper cam ???

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:43
dont be a sarcastic tw**, that is not how to treat a paying customer. If I were less polite then I would be ranting right now. I wouldn't have bought any of that stuff if it wasn't for this game so cut the sarcasm please and respond to my statement.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:44
the new patch is going to stop me being able to use bumper cam in Pro rooms. I consider myself a pretty good driver and don't want to be effectively banned from rooms because I use bumper cam.

theitalian06
24-06-2015, 16:46
Too be fair bumper cam is fir amateurs. Pros run in cockpit view.:)

chig88
24-06-2015, 16:46
dont be a sarcastic tw**, that is not how to treat a paying customer. If I were less polite then I would be ranting right now. I wouldn't have bought any of that stuff if it wasn't for this game so cut the sarcasm please and respond to my statement.

Farewell, Mattyd

LuckyMic
24-06-2015, 16:47
Game already has FOV adjusment, it is not banned

FOV yes but no triple screen support. I my opinion no one use all three monitors in a row (0 degree), so FOV is absolutely not enought...

JeyD02
24-06-2015, 16:47
He quite has a point about playing with forced in cockpit view. Specially with one screen it's not the same as playing with 3 screen or a VR.

But might ask the host to change the cam restrictions or just get used to it as there are sure others that is going through the same situation as you. At least the guiding line is independent and can't be forced to be disable yet.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:48
why farewell? I have been polite and asked questions. I have shelled out a load of money (including buying the game) just to be treated with a sarcastic attitude? That is un-called for and extremely unprofessional.

theitalian06
24-06-2015, 16:49
why farewell? I have been polite and asked questions. I have shelled out a load of money (including buying the game) just to be treated with a sarcastic attitude? That is un-called for and extremely unprofessional.

Shall I get a tissue

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 16:50
you can get what you like mate, I know how to treat the people who pay my bills, and that was not it.

yusupov
24-06-2015, 16:55
i think its a good topic for discussion. is bumper cam really even all that better? is it even better at all? in prototypes where somewhat limited visibility is a factor irl too (i assume?) i can see it being something of a 'cheat'. but most cars, bumper cam actually probably provides a more pure driving experience than cockpit if you use a single screen. its using almost all of your tiny real estate as a windshield instead of a 2/3ds of it or less...

again i use cockpit, but i dont know why id have a problem racing a guy using a bumper cam if he races better that way...what unrealistic advantage does it give you? it just removes some of the artificial ones cockpit cam saddles you with.

PzR Slim
24-06-2015, 16:57
the new patch is going to stop me being able to use bumper cam in Pro rooms. I consider myself a pretty good driver and don't want to be effectively banned from rooms because I use bumper cam.

I used to use bumper cam, now I use cockpit cam. If you want to run in pro rooms you will need to learn to use cockpit cam. I did, so someone who is a pretty good driver like you should have no problem.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 17:00
I understand what you are saying but that is not really the point, they are forcing me to change the way I race. I don't like that one bit. Then the sarcasm tipped me over the edge, I wouldn't have cared if it was just one of the other posters, but the people who work for the company should be a bit better behaved.

PzR Slim
24-06-2015, 17:03
I understand what you are saying but that is not really the point, they are forcing me to change the way I race. I don't like that one bit. Then the sarcasm tipped me over the edge, I wouldn't have cared if it was just one of the other posters, but the people who work for the company should be a bit better behaved.

Actually if you read the release notes. You are not going to be forced to do anything your not already forced to do. Pro is just a search term, it will search for lobbies with those restrictions, there will still be others lobbies without restrictions, exactly the same as it is now. Just after 2.0 searching for what you want should be easier.

chig88
24-06-2015, 17:06
they are forcing me to change the way I race. I don't like that one bit.

209013

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 17:07
Well I am going to be left with no choice once the patch drops.

Not impressed but the voices of the many........

Chris Sercombe
24-06-2015, 17:08
i think its a good topic for discussion. is bumper cam really even all that better? is it even better at all? in prototypes where somewhat limited visibility is a factor irl too (i assume?) i can see it being something of a 'cheat'. but most cars, bumper cam actually probably provides a more pure driving experience than cockpit if you use a single screen. its using almost all of your tiny real estate as a windshield instead of a 2/3ds of it or less...

again i use cockpit, but i dont know why id have a problem racing a guy using a bumper cam if he races better that way...what unrealistic advantage does it give you? it just removes some of the artificial ones cockpit cam saddles you with.

After useing cockpit view, bumper cam is so easy thou, my times are always much faster when i try that view, but i want as a real immersive feeling as possible, and cockpit view is it.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 17:09
It's a pretty big change to be fair, I live in the UK and that means that the steering wheel is in the wrong place for most vehicles so it is less realistic for me as I am sat on the wrong side of the car.

wyldanimal
24-06-2015, 17:10
the new patch is going to stop me being able to use bumper cam in Pro rooms. I consider myself a pretty good driver and don't want to be effectively banned from rooms because I use bumper cam.


I used to use bumper cam, now I use cockpit cam. If you want to run in pro rooms you will need to learn to use cockpit cam. I did, so someone who is a pretty good driver like you should have no problem.

I actually read the Post differently.
"* Multiplayer search filter 'Skill' now finds games based upon certain lobby game configuration criteria. For example, “Pro” setting now searches for Full Damage, Auto-start Engine, Forced Cockpit, Mechanical Failure, and so forth."

The way I read that is, the New Search feature will have Search Choices.
If you Pick "PRO" as your Search, it will limit the List to only rooms that have
"Full Damage, Auto-start Engine, Forced Cockpit, Mechanical Failure, and so forth.."

It doesn't say anything about a ROOM setting that forces a ROOM to have a specific set of settings.

Looking forward to the Improvements.

I've read through several different Site Forums, and tons of Posts..
It really amazes me at How Much Negativity and Hate there is in the Forums.

Stop hating, spread Positivism.. the World might become a better place, and it can all start with you...

Keep up the good work SMS. Thank you for your continued work to improve pCars.

Chris Sercombe
24-06-2015, 17:11
I understand what you are saying but that is not really the point, they are forcing me to change the way I race. I don't like that one bit. Then the sarcasm tipped me over the edge, I wouldn't have cared if it was just one of the other posters, but the people who work for the company should be a bit better behaved.

Mate you can still join like the other 90% of rooms out there ;) or just create your own and make it public.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 17:14
Surely it is saying that if you want your room to have a PRO label, and thus show up in the PRO search then it will have to be cockpit only.

That is the only thing that I am hating, the game is gorgeous, runs well (even on AMD!) and is being supported well.

My main hate is the sarcasm from the Devs, it is uncalled for and defiantly unwated.

spaceweed10
24-06-2015, 17:19
It saddens me that you think that somehow the bumper cam makes it easier, does that mean that the pro lobbies will only allow people on a single screen as opposed to a 3 screen set up as the increased view definitely makes it easier? You have stopped me being able to race in a pro lobby for a daft reason. I am not a happy customer right now.

It's not a 'daft' reason, it makes perfect sense - how can you be 'pro' if you drive either sitting on the bonnet or roof of a car? LoL.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 17:23
by being faster than some of the people who consider themselves pro just because they use cockpit view. If it is a selectable thing then fine, but if you have to be cockpit view only for your room to be considered pro then not fine.

spaceweed10
24-06-2015, 17:24
Surely it is saying that if you want your room to have a PRO label, and thus show up in the PRO search then it will have to be cockpit only.

That is the only thing that I am hating, the game is gorgeous, runs well (even on AMD!) and is being supported well.

My main hate is the sarcasm from the Devs, it is uncalled for and defiantly unwated.

This I actually agree with you with - I've read most of these major threads in their entirety, and the moderator behaviour is absolutely disgraceful /shrug. Some of them take trolling to whole new level.

Ian Bell
24-06-2015, 17:25
This I actually agree with you with - I've read most of these major threads in their entirety, and the moderator behaviour is absolutely disgraceful /shrug. Some of them take trolling to whole new level.

I guess you're saying that because you've gotten an infraction.

I think it's very unfair towards very hard working mods.

PzR Slim
24-06-2015, 17:31
Surely it is saying that if you want your room to have a PRO label, and thus show up in the PRO search then it will have to be cockpit only.

That is the only thing that I am hating, the game is gorgeous, runs well (even on AMD!) and is being supported well.

My main hate is the sarcasm from the Devs, it is uncalled for and defiantly unwated.

Read it again. Pro is just a search term, use the pro search term and it will only bring up rooms with those criteria. There will still be rooms with the exact same criteria bar the forced cockpit view but they just wont appear with that search term. There now, wasn't really worth getting your knickers in a twist over, was it. May be a few apologies are in order?

spaceweed10
24-06-2015, 17:33
I guess you're saying that because you've gotten an infraction.

I think it's very unfair towards very hard working mods.

I got an infraction for insulting someone - fair enough. But now I see 'you' have given me a warning for 'Repeated complaints regarding acknowledged issues'. What the hell are you talking about, sunshine?

Oh, and for a 'Studio Head', Ian Bell, you are complete bellend ;) bye o/.

MABlosfeld
24-06-2015, 17:43
But the option is there to do so. Are you telling me that I am a worse driver because of the view that I choose?

We're trying to say this:

Battlefield has three options:
A) = Normal (default style with assists)
B) Custom = (style defined by you)
C) HardCore = (default style without assists)
You choose the room you like and works very well

In PC1 we have:
A) Custom = you can define your own way, style and taste and use the bumper vision
B) Pro = the idea here is to create a room where all participants use the same definitions (Example: cockpit view)

Mad Al
24-06-2015, 18:07
It's a pretty big change to be fair, I live in the UK and that means that the steering wheel is in the wrong place for most vehicles so it is less realistic for me as I am sat on the wrong side of the car.

Err.. that's a pretty BS argument when it comes to racing.... or do you always drive on the left on a race track :)

FYI, I believe Audi and Porsche actually had the drivers seat on opposite sides at Le Mans this year and it was based on the way they did refuelling and driver changes, nothing at all to do with where you sit to have the best view of the road (the reason we drive on the left and sit on the right)

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 18:27
No, apologies are not in order (not from me anyhow) The term PRO for the room, means that I won't be able to race in it as it is forced cockpit view. It also means that I can't list my own room as PRO as I wont be able to use my bumper view. So you are saying that, due to the fact that I use bumper view, I am not allowed to be considered PRO even if I am a faster driver. I am still waiting for an apology from Ian for his sarcastic remark earlier. Not all of us have just made millions on a computer game to be able to easily afford such things. Some of us have to scrimp and save for this sort of kit. The only reason I bought it all was for this game. He needs to realise that some of us have made considerable sacrifices to enjoy his game to the fullest and he should appreciate it a little more. I am not some child who has got all upset, I am a grown adult and I recognise that people should be treated with some sort of respect. If apologies are in order then it is not from me.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 18:29
Thank you for explaining this a lot more clearly than it has been so far.

I apologise for ranting on about this, but it is more understandable to me now.

Ian?

TheReaper GT
24-06-2015, 18:29
No, apologies are not in order (not from me anyhow) The term PRO for the room, means that I won't be able to race in it as it is forced cockpit view. It also means that I can't list my own room as PRO as I wont be able to use my bumper view. So you are saying that, due to the fact that I use bumper view, I am not allowed to be considered PRO even if I am a faster driver. I am still waiting for an apology from Ian for his sarcastic remark earlier. Not all of us have just made millions on a computer game to be able to easily afford such things. Some of us have to scrimp and save for this sort of kit. The only reason I bought it all was for this game. He needs to realise that some of us have made considerable sacrifices to enjoy his game to the fullest and he should appreciate it a little more. I am not some child who has got all upset, I am a grown adult and I recognise that people should be treated with some sort of respect. If apologies are in order then it is not from me.

So you don't wanna be fast, you wanna be in the PRO room.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 18:33
I can be fast in any room, the point I was making is that it appeared that I wouldn't be able to race in my view in a PRO room. This has been cleared up now, and I have apologised for my ranting. I am still waiting for my apology but fear that will not be so easy to achieve. I missed the comments because I was racing.

oscarolim
24-06-2015, 18:41
No, apologies are not in order (not from me anyhow) The term PRO for the room, means that I won't be able to race in it as it is forced cockpit view. It also means that I can't list my own room as PRO as I wont be able to use my bumper view. So you are saying that, due to the fact that I use bumper view, I am not allowed to be considered PRO even if I am a faster driver. I am still waiting for an apology from Ian for his sarcastic remark earlier. Not all of us have just made millions on a computer game to be able to easily afford such things. Some of us have to scrimp and save for this sort of kit. The only reason I bought it all was for this game. He needs to realise that some of us have made considerable sacrifices to enjoy his game to the fullest and he should appreciate it a little more. I am not some child who has got all upset, I am a grown adult and I recognise that people should be treated with some sort of respect. If apologies are in order then it is not from me.

Dude, it's already been said that you only need ONE of the many Pro options to be considered a Pro room. So you can have manual gears and bumper cam for example and be a Pro room.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 18:44
You are not a pro at racing, you are a pro at sitting in front of a screen and turning a wheel. I doubt I will ever get to race you though because no doubt you will only be in cockpit only lobbies. :) (I do use a wheel btw)

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 18:44
that is why I posted very soon after. smh

diesel97
24-06-2015, 18:44
I don't think you should be considered pro sitting on the bumper. That should be in the fantasy arcade section. IMO it's meant to be a sim.
Also think you should have to use a wheel to be in pro and that's certain

I cant belive so many people are hung up on a title "pro" how can any of you get your head through the door .

Stag
24-06-2015, 18:50
Pro = cockpit,manual,wheel,pedals. No assists,all damage mechanical petrol and tyre wear real all on.
Not one from bumper cam ,suped up controller ,auto ,all assists on ,direction arrows,no damage no wear

PzR Slim
24-06-2015, 18:54
Pro = cockpit,manual,wheel,pedals. No assists,all damage mechanical petrol and tyre wear real all on.
Not one from bumper cam ,suped up controller ,auto ,all assists on ,direction arrows,no damage no wear

Seriously get over yourself. Gaming is about having fun. I get my fun from running as realistic as possible, doesn't mean I'm pro. If someone prefers it a different way don't be a rupert about it.

Stag
24-06-2015, 18:58
Seriously get over yourself. Gaming is about having fun. I get my fun from running as realistic as possible, doesn't mean I'm pro. If someone prefers it a different way don't be a rupert about it.

Seriously mate I'm not much cop But facts are facts I'd rather see segregation wheels ,from controllers for starters 90% of the wreckers and cutters are control freaks. If you bother getting a wheel you are gonna be a fair racer IMO why shouldn't they be elevated into a better place to race.
Simples

LordDRIFT
24-06-2015, 19:03
Wants to join Pro room, drives with controller and bumper cam, cries about not being able to drive with steering wheel on left.. The irony is waist deep.

PzR Slim
24-06-2015, 19:06
Seriously mate I'm not much cop But facts are facts I'd rather see segregation wheels ,from controllers for starters 90% of the wreckers and cutters are control freaks. If you bother getting a wheel you are gonna be a fair racer IMO why shouldn't they be elevated into a better place to race.
Simples

For a starters I race with a whole load of people from different forums across three different platforms who don't use a wheel. And they take it just as seriously as me and are just as quick as me. Stop being so elitist.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 19:12
I dont use a controller, get your facts right. I wasn't complaining about not being able to move the wheel, I was explaining how the cockpit cam is alien to me as I am used to sitting on the other side.

LordDRIFT
24-06-2015, 19:17
I dont use a controller, get your facts right. I wasn't complaining about not being able to move the wheel, I was explaining how the cockpit cam is alien to me as I am used to sitting on the other side.
..and you feel so much more at home sat 5 inches off the ground in front of the car...

P.S. lighten up, we're just busting ballz here. also if you give the cockpit cam a try you will find the experience so much more immersive.

Seelenkrank
24-06-2015, 19:19
I dont use a controller, get your facts right. I wasn't complaining about not being able to move the wheel, I was explaining how the cockpit cam is alien to me as I am used to sitting on the other side.

thats all?
take a look on the road and your forget on which position your vitual driver sits, or drive only cars with your favorite seat position...

dw123
24-06-2015, 19:22
I dont use a controller, get your facts right. I wasn't complaining about not being able to move the wheel, I was explaining how the cockpit cam is alien to me as I am used to sitting on the other side.
I'd recommend not bothering. If you have a complaint, don't expect anything more than derision and sarcasm, that's just the way things work around here. Fighting against it will only get you banned.

Stag
24-06-2015, 19:24
For a starters I race with a whole load of people from different forums across three different platforms who don't use a wheel. And they take it just as seriously as me and are just as quick as me. Stop being so elitist.

I should think you are quick
That's because using a controller is easier. Simple physics which I'm sure you understand. Flick of a finger turns the car flick of another finger stops it or changes gear.
While on the wheel you turn your arms maybe 180% to change direction ,to change gear you use one foot and a hand and to stop you use the other foot
So with wheel it's two feet ,two hands ,two arms to use against two hands on the controller.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 19:30
I should think you are quick
That's because using a controller is easier. Simple physics which I'm sure you understand. Flick of a finger turns the car flick of another finger stops it or changes gear.
While on the wheel you turn your arms maybe 180% to change direction ,to change gear you use one foot and a hand and to stop you use the other foot
So with wheel it's two feet ,two hands ,two arms to use against two hands on the controller.

I dont know how many times I have to say it, but I do not use a controller. I race on pc with wheel and pedals. I have no idea why this thread has been separated as my question has been answered alreay and the topic is closed.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 19:31
I have tried with the cockpit view, it just feels un natural. I will try some more but it is not necessary anyway as the situation has been clarified and I am now happy.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 19:32
there was no need to split the thread as the situation has been more clearly explained and the discussion is over bar a few people who are making comments after not reading the previous ones.

Stag
24-06-2015, 19:33
I dont know how many times I have to say it, but I do not use a controller. I race on pc with wheel and pedals. I have no idea why this thread has been separated as my question has been answered alreay and the topic is closed.

Wasn't meaning you in person mat.
Just a general thing it's easier on a controller and you have to be very good to handle a wheel and three pedals against one hand held device and to rinse it more by wanting to sit on the bumper is a joke

dw123
24-06-2015, 19:38
I have tried with the cockpit view, it just feels un natural. I will try some more but it is not necessary anyway as the situation has been clarified and I am now happy.
The most useful advice I can offer is - try to sit much closer to your monitor, and set your FOV to match the actual field of view that your monitor takes up in your vision. I worked out that having my 27" monitor roughly 30-35cm from my face matched approximately with an FOV of 80-85 degrees. That pretty much requires you to mount the screen directly above your FFB-wheel housing though, or use a much bigger screen, like a 42"+ TV.
The other alternative is to reduce your FOV considerably. Sitting around 90cm from the screen, I worked it out to be around 40-45 degrees FOV. That will also make it feel more natural, but you'll get very little sense of speed, because you'll lack all peripheral vision.

Basically, the only ways cockpit view can feel natural without doing either of those are:
Triple screen
Oculus Rift

Edit: or indeed, being allowed to continue using bumper-cam/hood-cam, so the limitations of a single monitor setup are at least partially minimized.

icebear
24-06-2015, 19:39
a bit sad to see how some guys feels necessary to consider themselves superior because they like to use the cockpit view and joke those who doesn't...

the real question may be to understand why the server filters should be limited to 3 cases ?

i would like so much to be able to filter servers like "real assists on, free cam choice, no damage, wheels only, 5/10 laps race, qualifs not finished" and this is just an example

PzR Slim
24-06-2015, 19:39
I should think you are quick
That's because using a controller is easier. Simple physics which I'm sure you understand. Flick of a finger turns the car flick of another finger stops it or changes gear.
While on the wheel you turn your arms maybe 180% to change direction ,to change gear you use one foot and a hand and to stop you use the other foot
So with wheel it's two feet ,two hands ,two arms to use against two hands on the controller.

lol, open your eyes. Check my sig ;)

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/neilfarren11/7A89F512-AC91-4B85-8431-661D4C357736.jpg

And do you have any idea how much more precise I can be with that setup when compared to a joypad, particularly in a sim. Like I said, stop being so elitist.

N0body Of The Goat
24-06-2015, 19:40
~15 years ago, I started racing games on titles without much emphasis on the word, "simulation." I had a nightmare when trying the likes of GTL; GTR1/2 compared to TOCA Race Driver 1/2/3 etc.

Up until ~5 years ago, I typically raced using non-cockpit camera views, because I found it hard to anticipate where others were around me. But I got by in titles such as Rfactor1.

But pCARS changed my approach, I love cockpit cam now, for the immersion more than anything else. I still get things wrong regarding where others are around me, but I'm getting better with practice.

Practice and patience. ;)

Seelenkrank
24-06-2015, 19:43
most fear comes from not knowing the track, if you know the speeds, curves etc cockpit cam is absolute no problem then.

apreston48
24-06-2015, 19:49
I'm using a controller with one 27 inch screen and have won many online races with an average finish of 2.0, beating those with multi-screens and steering wheels. Not saying this to brag, just saying that it isn't a limitation. I feel cockpit view provides the most realism.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 19:52
I have a triple screen setup, and still prefer bumper view over cockpit.

Mattyd
24-06-2015, 19:53
I have done countless laps on most of the tracks, also this is not my first racing game. It's not track knowledge, it's personal preference.

Stag
24-06-2015, 19:58
lol, open your eyes. Check my sig ;)

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/neilfarren11/7A89F512-AC91-4B85-8431-661D4C357736.jpg

And do you have any idea how much more precise I can be with that setup when compared to a joypad, particularly in a sim. Like I said, stop being so elitist.

Exactly my point proven. Lol
Like I said you have to be very good with a wheel to beat most controllers. Which you obviously are and once past the limits of a controllers capability the wheel can be taken further But to the vast majority it is much easier on a controller.
Maybe to people that drive it's a closer thing.

Forcedchaos
24-06-2015, 19:58
You all think you are pro or a real race car driver for playing a sim and a bad ass because you use cockpit view and or manual transmission. Got news for you, IT'S A VIDEO GAME!!!!!! Get over yourselves. Take it from somebody who raced in real life for years, this is nothing like being on the street and racing in real life believe me. So drop the elitist attitude like you're a race car driver or something!

Dude has a point, forcing one race view over another is just plain idiotic. If it has no bearing on performance like the assists do, it shouldn't be forced. Why don't they just add if you're not playing with a wheel you can't join? I bet that's next.

Azure Flare
24-06-2015, 19:59
It's not that hard to drive a car that is either LHD or RHD in cockpit view. Yes, your view may be restricted in some areas, but you have to trust yourself as a driver to put the car where you want it to be.

Also, if your driving a real car, you don't get a choice.

OpticalHercules
24-06-2015, 20:00
When I race MP, I use all the settings listed in the "Pro" layout except for the cockpit cam. I think forcing that to race with others who do prefer to use full realism on the rest is absurd. Yes you give FOV options, but that doesn't account for the size of the screen people are playing on. I do not have the money to go buy a 40"+ screen just to play this game how I want to play it, when nearly every other game I've played for the last few years has been more than fine on my 23" desktop monitor. Playing in cockpit on anything but open wheel severely limits my ability to see anything, especially in the cars I prefer the most: LMP. I tend to play most in bonnet cam.

I consider myself a budget gamer. I play on Xbox. Not a monster PC. Little monitor, cheap non-FFB wheel, etc. I do think I fall into the category of "majority" in this.

OpticalHercules
24-06-2015, 20:00
Also, if your driving a real car, you don't get a choice.

When driving a real car, your A-pillars don't take up 1/3rd of your field of vision.

Forcedchaos
24-06-2015, 20:04
I consider myself a budget gamer. I play on Xbox. Not a monster PC. Little monitor, cheap non-FFB wheel, etc. I do think I fall into the category of "majority" in this.

I race on a monster PC and wheel and pedals, wheel stand the works and you can play with me anytime.:) We're not all douches. Oh and you can use whatever view you want.

Umer Ahmad
24-06-2015, 20:19
Yeah i think there will be plenty of PRO rooms that will not have locked internal view.

Most PRO lobby hosts probably care more about damage and electronic driving aids

mermoid
24-06-2015, 20:22
It's a pretty big change to be fair, I live in the UK and that means that the steering wheel is in the wrong place for most vehicles so it is less realistic for me as I am sat on the wrong side of the car.

It's not unrealistic. The driving seat in-game is on whichever side of the car it is in the real racing car. If you hopped into an actual GT3 car you'd hardly say "this is unrealistic because the steering wheel is on the wrong side!"

OpticalHercules
24-06-2015, 20:24
I race on a monster PC and wheel and pedals, wheel stand the works and you can play with me anytime.:) We're not all douches. Oh and you can use whatever view you want.

Lol! I never implied that PC players were any different. I was a hardcore PC gamer with a monster machine back 6-7 years ago, but I still use that same machine today without any updates. Diablo 3 is about the limit of it's capability today. Nothing against them, and to each-their own.


They way I understand this "Pro" search function is if you want to search a lobby that includes all the realism features such as damage then you will also be forced into cockpit view. My problem (correct me if I'm wrong) is that seems to imply that searching amateur or other classes with automatically not include the full damage, abs/tcs/etc.

Has anyone from SMS/WMD listed the criteria of each of the "levels" under this search function?


EDIT: Umer Ahmad's post above clarified this a little. The lobbies aren't going to be just select class and go. You'll still be able to adjust individual features of your lobby, and others can search by just ama/med/pro/etc and get a majority of the game features that fall within that class

Olijke Poffer
24-06-2015, 20:33
Pro or not, I prefere Internal view because it gives me the feeling I'm actual steering the car. With bonnet cam or any other cam it become more an arcade feeling. Only the open wheels which have a t cam or how is it called? The cam up/behind the drivers helmet is a view which I like and indeed merely because I have an wider view and this is handy with the high speed.

For me everybody must use what he prefers. It is only a matter of having a great time with the game.

3800racingfool
24-06-2015, 20:34
Seems a pretty important post didn't make it in the thread merge so I'll just leave this here:


There seems to be some confusion about this point, so let me clarify - When you now search for a Pro lobby, it will search for lobbies that have Full Damage OR Auto-start Engine OR Forced Cockpit and so forth enabled. In other words, any lobby that specifically requires a pro mode feature. It doesn't require ALL of them, and you won't be forced to use ALL features tagged as Pro in order to qualify as a Pro lobby. I hope that helps to clarify.

Umer Ahmad
24-06-2015, 20:46
Thanks, i knight thee Honorary Moderator of the Wookie Republic!

k.merse
24-06-2015, 20:50
I think if you are driving really on the edge, you must drive from the cockpit. A bumper POV never gives the same feeling like when the car is around you. Of course this is only my opinion.

unknwn
24-06-2015, 20:50
Seems a pretty important post didn't make it in the thread merge so I'll just leave this here:

If its 'OR' when what's the point of this filter in the first place? How do I search something in particular instead of 'OR'? I want to apply filter and get results only of the all realism features enabled servers otherwise calling it "pro" makes no sense.
I would like the ability to specifically select particular realism options when filtering as per user taste or fixed presets like PRO with "and" instead of "OR". Or am I missing something?

LordDRIFT
24-06-2015, 21:00
I'm using a controller with one 27 inch screen and have won many online races with an average finish of 2.0, beating those with multi-screens and steering wheels. Not saying this to brag, just saying that it isn't a limitation. I feel cockpit view provides the most realism.

Um That's what we are saying...it can even be seen as an advantage.

yusupov
24-06-2015, 21:03
wow. controller + single screen setup 'can be seen as advantage' against triple monitors + wheel in a racing sim.

not gonna convince any people who think that here so im out of this thread.

k.merse
24-06-2015, 21:11
Of course turning driving aids on helps a lot...

3800racingfool
24-06-2015, 21:24
If its 'OR' when what's the point of this filter in the first place? How do I search something in particular instead of 'OR'? I want to apply filter and get results only of the all realism features enabled servers otherwise calling it "pro" makes no sense.
I would like the ability to specifically select particular realism options when filtering as per user taste or fixed presets like PRO with "and" instead of "OR". Or am I missing something?

You're not missing anything. Think of "Pro", right now, as a large filter. Perhaps, in a later patch, SMS will further refine it into "Partial Pro" and "Full Pro" categories which do what you're wanting with Partial being an OR filter and Full being an AND filter. As it stands currently, all Pro mode does is weed out games that don't have any Pro mode features enabled (if/else). From there you'll just have to use your eye holes to look for a server that has everything you want enabled.

Or you could, y'know, create your own lobby with those features.

Mattias
24-06-2015, 21:28
I think they should just name it Simulation instead of Pro... that would make it much more clear, and that would mean forced helmet cam, my favorite view!

LordDRIFT
24-06-2015, 21:34
wow. controller + single screen setup 'can be seen as advantage' against triple monitors + wheel in a racing sim.

not gonna convince any people who think that here so im out of this thread.
I'm really talking about the controller. But see you later! Bye bye!

BTW I love my single screen setup.

Flaw3dGenius
24-06-2015, 21:41
It saddens me that you think that somehow the bumper cam makes it easier, does that mean that the pro lobbies will only allow people on a single screen as opposed to a 3 screen set up as the increased view definitely makes it easier? You have stopped me being able to race in a pro lobby for a daft reason. I am not a happy customer right now.

Just change to cockpit and join the big boys in the Pro rooms!

yusupov
24-06-2015, 21:44
oh, youre only talking about how the controller is a superior device for driving cars.

gosh, what was i thinking. that obviously makes perfect sense.

JeyD02
24-06-2015, 21:51
Of course turning driving aids on helps a lot...

lol, youll find those people who feel butthurt and say that there is no much difference, and that no assist its faster lol. ( it is on certain occasion but, its harder and not forgiving as with driving assist which is the point that people are missing.)

AfterAll14
24-06-2015, 21:56
Ok, so you say I have to drive cocpit cam. But what if I have low resolution screen and I can't see sh*t on it with cocpit cam. If so called "pros" would buy me 3x4k monitors - I'm ready to play cocpit cam.

Flaw3dGenius
24-06-2015, 21:59
Ok, so you say I have to drive cocpit cam. But what if I have low resolution screen and I can't see sh*t on it with cocpit cam. If so called "pros" would buy me 3x4k monitors - I'm ready to play cocpit cam.

If you cant see shit you need to change your FOV, You can get extremely close to the windscreen so no excuses.

AfterAll14
24-06-2015, 22:00
If you cant see shit you need to change your FOV, You can get extremely close to the windscreen so no excuses.

FOV would not make 8 pixels out of 1.

AfterAll14
24-06-2015, 22:06
So called "pros" can watch THIS:
http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1740968730&vehicle=65306143
2 players out of first 100 with manual clutch and all assists off, and best of them is #48.
But sooo many fanboys with cockpit cam - THAT must give real disadvantage.:rolleyes:

LordDRIFT
24-06-2015, 22:16
oh, youre only talking about how the controller is a superior device for driving cars.

gosh, what was i thinking. that obviously makes perfect sense.

We are still talking about a video game right? I thought you were gone?

Mad Al
24-06-2015, 22:45
So called "pros" can watch THIS:
http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=1740968730&vehicle=65306143
2 players out of first 100 with auto clutch off, and best of them is #48.
But sooo many fanboys with cockpit cam - THAT must give real disadvantage.:rolleyes:

Actually the second person on the list has auto clutch off..... the + means they have some "assists" on, but it doesn't definitely mean they have auto clutch..

AfterAll14
24-06-2015, 22:51
Actually the second person on the list has auto clutch off..... the + means they have some "assists" on, but it doesn't definitely mean they have auto clutch..

Ok. My bad. So lets say 2 out of 100 with all assist off. They influence lap times heavily. While camera change has imaginary affect more than real.

MetheadMan
24-06-2015, 23:08
I have to say I feel where this guy is coming from. When I initially bought the game and started playing online I thought some servers were limiting me to the bumper cam. I absolutely despise the bumper cam and just can't race with it. Knowing now that locking to the bumper cam was a glitch made things much better. I have no problem with this Pro lobby locking to In-car (personal preference anyhow), but to be honest it's the way these types of racing games are meant to be played. Give it a shot for a week or so and I'm telling you, you won't regret it.

mermoid
24-06-2015, 23:10
Ok, so you say I have to drive cocpit cam. But what if I have low resolution screen and I can't see sh*t on it with cocpit cam. If so called "pros" would buy me 3x4k monitors - I'm ready to play cocpit cam.

When I'm away from my main rig I play at 720p on my laptop with all settings as low as they will go and I can still see fine with cockpit cam.

AfterAll14
24-06-2015, 23:15
When I'm away from my main rig I play at 720p on my laptop with all settings as low as they will go and I can still see fine with cockpit cam.

If its ok for you - fine. Don't make other people do what you like.

Mad Al
24-06-2015, 23:19
If its ok for you - fine. Don't make other people do what you like.


You making the same mistake the OP did.. the option to force the cockpit view has ALWAYS been there... all that is changing is a FILTER.. the fact it happens to be called pro is just a bloody name and doesn't mean you have to do anything in the way of locking...

There is nothing stopping additional filter options being added later, this is not the end of the world, nor the end of development.. !

spinkick
24-06-2015, 23:35
I feel that it is a serious situation as it is making it impossible for me to be competitive as I am not used to the cockpit view so my lap times will suffer

Subtle whinger thread, you've brought this up elsewhere, why are you spamming the forum? People will not take up pitchforks for your pet issue.

Obviously you are not a pro default room guy if you use a bumper view. I am guessing this is much ado about nothing, as the room can be unlocked if you need sit on the bumper cam

spinkick
24-06-2015, 23:41
You all think you are pro or a real race car driver for playing a sim and a bad ass because you use cockpit view and or manual transmission. Got news for you, IT'S A VIDEO GAME!!!!!! Get over yourselves. Take it from somebody who raced in real life for years, this is nothing like being on the street and racing in real life believe me. So drop the elitist attitude like you're a race car driver or something!

Dude has a point, forcing one race view over another is just plain idiotic. If it has no bearing on performance like the assists do, it shouldn't be forced. Why don't they just add if you're not playing with a wheel you can't join? I bet that's next.

Actually no, it gives an advantage.

321Respawn
24-06-2015, 23:47
I don't get the elitist attitude of so many people .
If you get beaten by a guy using bumper cam or even chase cam both views I find impossible to race with but so what ?
Do you win a prize at the end of a race ? No you don't and in fact for that very reason most leave the moment they cross the finish line and in many cases before .
There is no prize for winning and very little congratulation from the other players either .
If there was prize money for repairing your car or buying a new upgrade then winning would really matter and any advantage another player has would be unfair but there isn't .
All you get is a few stats for you to look at on your homepage .No one can see your average finish position and if we could I doubt many would care .
Trying to force others to comply with your favourite set up gives you the unfair advantage .

Forcedchaos
25-06-2015, 00:07
I will say just one more thing. I always race bumper cam chase view whatever it's called. I just tried helmet cam on my favorite track, my times were about the same so whatever. It just comes down to what your used to I guess as with anything. It's just that forcing someone to race in a certain view I think is wrong a long with the OP. Every ones different, does it really matter?

LordDRIFT
25-06-2015, 00:25
You all think you are pro or a real race car driver for playing a sim and a bad ass because you use cockpit view and or manual transmission. Got news for you, IT'S A VIDEO GAME!!!!!! Get over yourselves. Take it from somebody who raced in real life for years, this is nothing like being on the street and racing in real life believe me. So drop the elitist attitude like you're a race car driver or something!

Dude has a point, forcing one race view over another is just plain idiotic. If it has no bearing on performance like the assists do, it shouldn't be forced. Why don't they just add if you're not playing with a wheel you can't join? I bet that's next.
Get over yourself . Nobody is being elitist , and many of us on the forum including me do track cars in real life. By your logic you should be elite because you are a real race car driver. I'm sure we are all talking in the context of the game. Chill out.

MABlosfeld
25-06-2015, 01:17
iRacing
has no minimap, has no assists, only the cockpit view.
It is simulator if you want to know where the next turn, have to decorate the layout.
I think it's cool that there is little help options because then all compete with similar conditions

Lawndarts
25-06-2015, 01:30
3 screen users are more a benefit to you than themselves... That awareness keeps you safer from them... But you could still easily chop our nose off... Increased volume on competitors cars would help too.

stux
25-06-2015, 02:12
Pro or not, I prefere Internal view because it gives me the feeling I'm actual steering the car. With bonnet cam or any other cam it become more an arcade feeling. Only the open wheels which have a t cam or how is it called? The cam up/behind the drivers helmet is a view which I like and indeed merely because I have an wider view and this is handy with the high speed.

For me everybody must use what he prefers. It is only a matter of having a great time with the game.

You see, I use bonnet/hood came for this reason. My 55" is a couple of meters in front of my couch/wheel, and thus cockpit feels like driving from the parcel shelf whereas hood makes it so it feel like I'm driving from inside the car and looking out of a windscreen.

Have we had confirmation that a Pro search is an AND query or is it an OR query?

3800racingfool
25-06-2015, 02:23
Have we had confirmation that a Pro search is an AND query or is it an OR query?

It's an OR query. (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32828-Forced-cockpit-view-in-quot-Pro-quot-rooms-discussion-%28from-Patch-2-0-notes-discussion%29&p=1013785&viewfull=1#post1013785)

stux
25-06-2015, 04:19
It's an OR query. (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32828-Forced-cockpit-view-in-quot-Pro-quot-rooms-discussion-%28from-Patch-2-0-notes-discussion%29&p=1013785&viewfull=1#post1013785)

Thanks, just found the original quote


There seems to be some confusion about this point, so let me clarify - When you now search for a Pro lobby, it will search for lobbies that have Full Damage OR Auto-start Engine OR Forced Cockpit and so forth enabled. In other words, any lobby that specifically requires a pro mode feature. It doesn't require ALL of them, and you won't be forced to use ALL features tagged as Pro in order to qualify as a Pro lobby. I hope that helps to clarify.

Colour me happy :)

Curious, why is "auto-start engine" considered a Pro mode? I thought that was an assist :-\

unknwn
25-06-2015, 05:28
You're not missing anything. Think of "Pro", right now, as a large filter. Perhaps, in a later patch, SMS will further refine it into "Partial Pro" and "Full Pro" categories which do what you're wanting with Partial being an OR filter and Full being an AND filter. As it stands currently, all Pro mode does is weed out games that don't have any Pro mode features enabled (if/else). From there you'll just have to use your eye holes to look for a server that has everything you want enabled.

Or you could, y'know, create your own lobby with those features.

Currently there is no indication of server features prior joining, every time you join you need to wait until that liittle screen splashes through all server realism options, you leave the server to join another one and the filter gets reset. This is my biggest gripe.:(

sergiumtz
25-06-2015, 05:34
Too be fair bumper cam is fir amateurs. Pros run in cockpit view.:)

Pros actually drive cars. Have you ever been on a racetrack? If yes, you probably noticed how different the cockpit...view from real life is much better than in EVERY game on planet earth.

DaFungho
25-06-2015, 06:35
- it levels the "playing field"
- bumper cam kills (IMHO) the "immersion"
- you can be faster in bumper-cam

“nuff said...

please let us this option!

wyldanimal
25-06-2015, 07:37
Screen Size, and FOV can make driving in cockpit view a better experience.

But there is still a limit to how much on the sides you can see, It's not even close to simulating being inside a real car.
IRL, you have more peripheral vision, There's really a side to the car that you can see..
you can turn your head, or move your eyes to glance to see along side of you.
IRL you are much more aware of your total surroundings. an easy glance to see both mirrors.

You don't really gain any of this from cockpit view..
Sure you can map buttons to look left or right, but still not the same.

The Oculus Rift approaches this kind of awareness
also on PC's you can have Head Tracking, so as you rotate your Head, the on screen view follows..
but once you've turned you head so far, you're no longer looking at your screen...

I'm on the PS4, so neither of the above two options can be used..

I have (3) 32" screens setup from GT5, GT6 that were in a real Multi Screen setup.

but on the PS4, I only get to use one screen, so the two side screen setup at a 30 degree angle, are of no benefit to me.
While I can drive in Cockpit view, it doesn't feel natural..
roof cam, looking down across the Hood of the car, where I can see both sides of the front end, Seems more real to me..
Feels Like I'm Sitting Looking Out the Window, across the Hood of the car..
IRL I don't see the dash, or wheel of the car, unless I alter my glance to look at it..
Other wise, It's Out the front window over the hood of the car.

this video shows the Full View of Both Side screens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xDMXFO-QhE

this one is cropped to what my actual driving FOV looked like,
I can't see the side screens 100% unless I turn my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so945aJVJms

My days of Multi-Screen racing on the console, are probably long gone...

Stephen Viljoen
25-06-2015, 08:11
Curious, why is "auto-start engine" considered a Pro mode? I thought that was an assist :-\

Good catch! That's a typo, it should read "no auto-start engine", or rather "manual-start engine".

Stephen Viljoen
25-06-2015, 08:14
Worth another bump on this:

There seems to be some confusion about this point, so let me clarify - When you now search for a Pro lobby, it will search for lobbies that have Full Damage OR Manual-start Engine OR Forced Cockpit and so forth enabled. In other words, any lobby that specifically requires a pro mode feature. It doesn't require ALL of them, and you won't be forced to use ALL features tagged as Pro in order to qualify as a Pro lobby. I hope that helps to clarify.

No-one is forcing you to always use cockpit view when in pro mode, only if you join a lobby that has it set to force cockpit mode.

Charles Gillen
25-06-2015, 08:25
Truth be known that most who would want to force a view or ban the use of "real driving aids" are people who have mastered driving in these setups to a certain degree. By forcing others to adhere to these demands to race a certain server, they are in effect attempting to put others at a disadvantage. Thereby insuring a win on their part. Or at the very least a podium finish.

If a santioning body allows the use of TCS, ABS or others IRL, Then why in the world would anybody want to restrict the use of these things in a "Sim". I'll tell you why, these "purists" want the racing server setup to their own benefit. Plain and simple, make all the noise you want, but thats it in a nutshell.

If driving a different view keeps someone from crashing others during a race, then I say "Drive what you want" If driving with TCS or ABS on keeps you on the track, Then more power to ya. And really.... Who the Hell are you to tell me how to play MY sim? Drive cockpit view, turn off ABS,TCS although theyre probably used in most genres or racing, modern racing anyway. If that makes you feel like a real race car driver, thats cool.

My rant for the day.....Cheers

Charles

Neil Bateman
25-06-2015, 08:34
So i dont see the difference with the pro filter search in the update from what it is now, i always search using pro and have yet to find a race that has all assists off full damage and tyre wear and forced cockpit.

Every pro race i have joined has some form of assist even if it is not forcing cockpit, so how will it be any different after patch, its not like now the pro search forces anything anyway.

Right now if you want to find a race with no assists and forced cockpit its pot luck, as it will be post patch.

Am i missing something?

N0body Of The Goat
25-06-2015, 08:42
Worth another bump on this:

There seems to be some confusion about this point, so let me clarify - When you now search for a Pro lobby, it will search for lobbies that have Full Damage OR Manual-start Engine OR Forced Cockpit and so forth enabled. In other words, any lobby that specifically requires a pro mode feature. It doesn't require ALL of them, and you won't be forced to use ALL features tagged as Pro in order to qualify as a Pro lobby. I hope that helps to clarify.

No-one is forcing you to always use cockpit view when in pro mode, only if you join a lobby that has it set to force cockpit mode.

So if a server is running full damage, no fuel use, no tyre wear and driving assists active (regardless of whether the real car has them); it will still show up as a "Pro" server?

Personally, I would class that server as "Amateur" at best.

blowfishrulez
25-06-2015, 08:54
Imo, the driving camera cannot be treated like a driving aid. It is totally a personal preference and i cannot see why people that are fast in cockpit view should not be able to race guys that are fast in 3rd person or bumper view. It all comes down to being competent on the track, that has nothing to do with the view someone prefers to race in.

TrevorAustin
25-06-2015, 09:52
This isn't still going on! 13 pages of bickering about nothing more than a search feature! Wow.

stux
25-06-2015, 10:05
Its a meta-bicker

The real bickering is over "what is a pro lobby"

Forcedchaos
25-06-2015, 10:26
Let's keep it going! Were gamers, were not happy unless we are bitching,moaning,whining,complaining and nitpicking something!

oscarolim
25-06-2015, 10:35
You're all wrong! Pro rooms should only be for people with this kind of setup:

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww71/mobonic/cxc_motion_pro_ii_racing_simulator.jpg

bjosim
25-06-2015, 10:58
You know, the brain has an ability to filter out any "unwanted" information or background noise. We all do it all the time, but people with hearing aids usually get problems with this, and it has something to do with all the audio coming from one source, hence the brains reduced capacity to filter out unwanted information. Stay with me.

When i drive IRL my brain does exactly the same with my vision. It filters out unwanted information so I can do a better job with the relevant visual information. That's why, when I drive fast, I don't notice the inside of my car. I am "out there" visually. Cockpit view is therefore less realistic in my view. It does the same to the brain as hearing aids. It makes it harder for the brain to filter out the unwanted information. The handicap is bigger than the advantage of bumper cam. Hood cam is the cam that most closely matches the feeling I get from driving IRL.

stux
25-06-2015, 11:11
You know, the brain has an ability to filter out any "unwanted" information or background noise. We all do it all the time, but people with hearing aids usually get problems with this, and it has something to do with all the audio coming from one source, hence the brains reduced capacity to filter out unwanted information. Stay with me.

When i drive IRL my brain does exactly the same with my vision. It filters out unwanted information so I can do a better job with the relevant visual information. That's why, when I drive fast, I don't notice the inside of my car. I am "out there" visually. Cockpit view is therefore less realistic in my view. It does the same to the brain as hearing aids. It makes it harder for the brain to filter out the unwanted information. The handicap is bigger than the advantage of bumper cam. Hood cam is the cam that most closely matches the feeling I get from driving IRL.

Ditto, altho helmetcam is interesting...

Neil Bateman
25-06-2015, 11:20
So if a server is running full damage, no fuel use, no tyre wear and driving assists active (regardless of whether the real car has them); it will still show up as a "Pro" server?

Personally, I would class that server as "Amateur" at best.



This is my point, how can it be a pro filter if it only has to have one of the pro options to be classed as pro.

The whole point of this game is its a simulation with options and assists for those who choose to use them.

It seems to me if your one of the latter you can easily find what you want by searching in all 3 filter groups, if on the other hand you prefer to race full on "Sim" there is no filter option to do that, you can only use pro filter and hope someone has set it up with all assists off, cockpit, damage, tyre wear, fuel use all on.

Maybe one more filter of "Full Simulation" is whats needed.

Mattyd
25-06-2015, 11:34
is there going to be a way to see what features are activated from the search results screen or do we have to go into the lobby to discover what is allowed and what isnt?

Forcedchaos
25-06-2015, 11:49
You know, the brain has an ability to filter out any "unwanted" information or background noise. We all do it all the time, but people with hearing aids usually get problems with this, and it has something to do with all the audio coming from one source, hence the brains reduced capacity to filter out unwanted information. Stay with me.

When i drive IRL my brain does exactly the same with my vision. It filters out unwanted information so I can do a better job with the relevant visual information. That's why, when I drive fast, I don't notice the inside of my car. I am "out there" visually. Cockpit view is therefore less realistic in my view. It does the same to the brain as hearing aids. It makes it harder for the brain to filter out the unwanted information. The handicap is bigger than the advantage of bumper cam. Hood cam is the cam that most closely matches the feeling I get from driving IRL.

This post is so good I have a Skyforge beta key for you if you want it. PM me. I'm serious. If you have a gaming PC, I see you are playing on PS4.

bjosim
25-06-2015, 12:11
My PC is probably too weak with it's 6 yrs old GPU, but thank You! Really appreciate it :)

Brent G
25-06-2015, 14:26
Because it's an external camera?

For me it's about realism, I ain't never driven a car while strapped to the front bumper or from 10 metres behind the car for that matter. Any view other than cockpit isn't a accurate depiction of how a car is driven.

MABlosfeld
25-06-2015, 14:35
I think they should just name it Simulation instead of Pro... that would make it much more clear, and that would mean forced helmet cam, my favorite view!

all discussion is because of PROFESSIONAL name?
Please developers change the name to SIMULATOR ..... ;P

who has a steering wheel like to play with FFB because it conveys a bit of realism and immersion but use FFB difficult to conduct, play with control has no trouble why not use FFB.

I started playing NASCAR RACING (Papyrus 1994) with keyboard and control
in 2004 I played NASCAR2 (Papyrus) with my first wheel but without FFB
in 2012 bought G27 steering wheel with BFF and I can say with conviction, play with a steering wheel has not made me a FASTER PILOT but the experience of playing with a steering wheel with FFB is fully immersive and fun. Each has its own purpose, I do not mind being the last, I want to be competitive playing in similar conditions, this is my purpose.

Mad Al
25-06-2015, 18:20
You're all wrong! Pro rooms should only be for people with this kind of setup:

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww71/mobonic/cxc_motion_pro_ii_racing_simulator.jpg

so we need a filter

Or Wearing Gloves

Paulzx
25-06-2015, 18:31
It's about time there was a feature just for cockpit drivers, in my view there should ONLY be a cockpit view in a sim anyway.

You try and get the handling & physics as good as possible and realistic as you can - then drive from a position of being sat on the bonnet!

Clearly part of the skill of a racing driver is to do it from within the car. Anyone with any sim racing experience knows full well it's a bit faster
to drive from an exterior camera because you can see what's coming a fraction more quickly.

I can't believe anyone would seriously dispute that

MABlosfeld
25-06-2015, 18:50
It's about time there was a feature just for cockpit drivers, in my view there should ONLY be a cockpit view in a sim anyway.

You try and get the handling & physics as good as possible and realistic as you can - then drive from a position of being sat on the bonnet!

Clearly part of the skill of a racing driver is to do it from within the car. Anyone with any sim racing experience knows full well it's a bit faster
to drive from an exterior camera because you can see what's coming a fraction more quickly.

I can't believe anyone would seriously dispute that

PAD vs WHEEL vs KEYBORD vs PAD OVERRIDE WHEEL
http://www.gamevicio.com/i/videos/127/127372-f1-2014-controle-vs-volante-vs-teclado/

WHEEL
Advantages: high curves takes slight lead over the DS, the braking can be dosed for cornering is better than the DS.
Disadvantages: if you turn the car loses a lot of time to return to the track, which the DS is easy to control.

CONTROL
Advantages: has a better car control in the hands, especially in rounds can force the most of the track played.
Disadvantages: excessive consumption of front tires due to stress in the corners, where braking with the "punch" button.

I could name a few other things but I think this is already the essential ...

MABlosfeld
25-06-2015, 19:06
LOCK SIMULATOR VISION IN THE COCKPIT CAMERA EVEN THE DRIVERS?

http://3wideclub.com/portal3/travar-visao-do-simulador-na-camera-no-cockpit-nivela-os-pilotos/

Mad Al
25-06-2015, 19:17
This isn't still going on! 13 pages of bickering about nothing more than a search feature! Wow.

Change your forum settings, I'm only on page 7 :)

Martini Da Gasalini
25-06-2015, 19:22
dont be a sarcastic tw**, that is not how to treat a paying customer. If I were less polite then I would be ranting right now. I wouldn't have bought any of that stuff if it wasn't for this game so cut the sarcasm please and respond to my statement.

Do yourself a favor and learn how to drive from cockpit.

Who drives in bumper view anyways? the view from behind a cars' exhaust must be lovely eh?

LordDRIFT
25-06-2015, 19:37
Who drives in bumper view anyways?

Mattyd

miagi
25-06-2015, 19:41
It's about time there was a feature just for cockpit drivers, in my view there should ONLY be a cockpit view in a sim anyway.

You try and get the handling & physics as good as possible and realistic as you can - then drive from a position of being sat on the bonnet!

Clearly part of the skill of a racing driver is to do it from within the car. Anyone with any sim racing experience knows full well it's a bit faster
to drive from an exterior camera because you can see what's coming a fraction more quickly.

I can't believe anyone would seriously dispute that
I dispute the whole post.
"Anyone ... knows full well it's a bit faster to drive from an exterior camera" - Just be honest and say how it is, you're mad about other ppl driving from another view, just and only because you see an advantage in it.
"see what's coming a fraction more quickly" - How do I see things quicker from exterior cam, please explain that "statement".

I value freedom over any kind of arbitrary restriction. In real life nearly everyone drives from "cockpit view" but how little fantasy a person has to have to want to force it as the only way in a game. Games are there to expand reality, simply because they can.

Anyway, I'd rather join a public external view lobby than a public forced cockpit view lobby, as from my experience 90% of those "pro" cockpit drivers have no idea what is going on around them and drive like that.

Olijke Poffer
25-06-2015, 19:45
I Just simply like the cockpit view. Even if I race faster with an exterior cam. No more no less.. Everybody must use the cam they like. Just my 2cents...

LordDRIFT
25-06-2015, 19:52
All this talk about liking cock is starting to make me uncomfortable - "not that there's anything wrong with that.."

Martini Da Gasalini
25-06-2015, 20:08
All this talk about liking cock is starting to make me uncomfortable - "not that there's anything wrong with that.."


http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/1861-i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

LordDRIFT
25-06-2015, 20:11
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/1861-i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

I LOL'd for real.

Marakusu
25-06-2015, 21:22
If this game wants to be a true racing simulation then only control method would be wheel....so remove support for keyboard and gamepad...oh and of course remove all other camera choices except cockpit and helmet. ;)

miagi
25-06-2015, 21:32
If this game wants to be a true racing simulation then only control method would be wheel....so remove support for keyboard and gamepad...oh and of course remove all other camera choices except cockpit and helmet. ;)

Oh and only allow Oculus Rift support!

Marakusu
25-06-2015, 21:39
Oh and only allow Oculus Rift support!

Oh yes of course :D

QPRLad
25-06-2015, 21:51
It's a pretty big change to be fair, I live in the UK and that means that the steering wheel is in the wrong place for most vehicles so it is less realistic for me as I am sat on the wrong side of the car.

Hahah that's hilarious. That will not make one blind bit of difference.
It's a pro room because it's trying to pitch everyone onto a level playing field. I'm surprised they haven't taken away the racing line to be honest! If you don't like it, start up a lobby and make it so you can change the view. The way I see it is, learn to use the cockpit cam, or play with people who want to hit you off the track, I know which I'd rather. FTR I use roof cam but didn't struggle too much when a few games forced me to use cockpit.

Soulbr1nger
25-06-2015, 21:59
The best patchnote ever!!! Simulation racing you need to do that in the car.
Pro settings must be as follow.

No assists
No race line
No mini map etc.
only in car cams.

It's called pro for a reason. And I am on 1 monitor ps4
For the people who aren't liking it don't play pro. :)

danpinho
25-06-2015, 22:33
iRacing
has no minimap, has no assists, only the cockpit view.
It is simulator if you want to know where the next turn, have to decorate the layout.
I think it's cool that there is little help options because then all compete with similar conditions

^ iRacing is a good starting point for sure.


The best patchnote ever!!! Simulation racing you need to do that in the car.
Pro settings must be as follow.

No assists
No race line
No mini map etc.
only in car cams.

It's called pro for a reason. And I am on 1 monitor ps4
For the people who aren't liking it don't play pro. :)

Same here matte.

First it will be the "dumber" cam I mean bumper cam. Then we will see people asking for assists, maps, no damage just because they want the "Pro" status.
I believe that this "status" come with a price (restrictions) Get used to it or just get out.

Ps.: DEVs, get rid of racing lines plz!:cool:

Wolkenwolf
25-06-2015, 22:33
There is another sim outside the racing world. Its called IL2 Sturmovik. Join a server and complain about not being able to choose wonderwomenview, With arrows where your foes are flying around and such :D
I mean there are servers which allow free view but most serious meant do not, you have to deal with CP view and that most virtual pilots use TrackiR. And I can tell you, in a Me109 you see as good as nothing without it.

Online racing and flying is some kind of sport, right ? So i think there should be the same preferences for everyone as far as possible.
The hood drivers mostly complain about the CP view because they can't see! Yes, thats right. And because of this i would never allow wonderwomenview ;)

QPRLad
25-06-2015, 22:42
The best patchnote ever!!! Simulation racing you need to do that in the car.
Pro settings must be as follow.

No assists
No race line
No mini map etc.
only in car cams.

It's called pro for a reason. And I am on 1 monitor ps4
For the people who aren't liking it don't play pro. :)

I'm sure GT3 and LMP cars are forced to run with TC and GT have to run abs. Also probably stability control.

marcdxn
25-06-2015, 22:54
When you travel to the shops your occupants must wish they had an option to sit on the bumper if this is how much moaning you do about virtual life. :cool:


race drivers don't sit on the bonnet when racing, this is just 1 mode of many
play the other modes available if you are that bothered

Racer Pro
25-06-2015, 23:57
Cockpit view its the only view i use

MABlosfeld
25-06-2015, 23:58
use or not use of the cockpit view, that is the question? NO !!!
the real question is: To play or not play the PRO room.
you can play with external or internal view, PRO room or not,
only one option was increased in the filters, no need to panic.

Anxious for patch 2.0, come quick ... :P

MABlosfeld
26-06-2015, 00:13
I'm sure GT3 and LMP cars are forced to run with TC and GT have to run abs. Also probably stability control.

Simple question: When and why would I want to turn off traction control?
R: On a track.

Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) is full nanny mode. Prevents wheel spin by not only controlling brakes, but also throttle management. This is what mode the car is in unless you change it.
Dynamic TractionControl (DTC) is what happens when you push the "DTC" button once. In DTC, the computer will allow a limited amount of wheel spin, This is helpful in snow or slightly slick conditions, when some wheelspin is acceptable or useful (as previous posts have mentioned). DTC will not kill the throttle to prevent wheel spin. You can tell you're in DTC mode because you'll see "DTC" on your dash indicator. Think of DTC as a slightly more lenient babysitter, as opposed to a strict nanny. You can play a little, but it's still there to keep you from going wild.
If you press and hold the DTC button, you'll disable DSC/DTC entirely, and you'll see the cool little circular arrow witht he warning triangle. In this mode, the computer doesn't intervene at all - you're on your own.
look here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=617971

Short Shifting: the technique of exchanging power for control
Anyone who has ridden a Chevette on rainy days know what it is ...
look here: http://www.flatout.com.br/short-shif...-por-controle/

stux
26-06-2015, 00:47
For me it's about realism, I ain't never driven a car while strapped to the front bumper or from 10 metres behind the car for that matter. Any view other than cockpit isn't a accurate depiction of how a car is driven.

Ever a driven a car where the view of the road is out over the hood?

stux
26-06-2015, 00:54
Do yourself a favor and learn how to drive from cockpit.

Who drives in bumper view anyways? the view from behind a cars' exhaust must be lovely eh?

Is bumper view chase cam? Or is it front bumper/nose view?

I thought people meant nose view.

RC Car vs Sim driving.

LordDRIFT
26-06-2015, 01:05
Wait. .the racing line is available in PRO room and you guys are arguing about forced cockpit? Is this true?

Toxic
26-06-2015, 01:40
Ever a driven a car where the view of the road is out over the hood?

My sister does - seat right forward with her chin above the wheel, like an old granny. She is slow as buggery, so you have no worries there.

Diablo944
26-06-2015, 01:48
I would love a checkbox that denied the racing line to everyone. I play against mates a lot and they are mostly chasecam users. On pads, in auto with racing line.

Me, in car view, with a wheel, with a shifter, in manual and no racing line, yet they moan at me when i am in the way slowing down visually seeing the corner as they barrel down on you in a 'drive by coloured markers on the road' style rather than actually driving the track based on what they actually see out of the windscreen.

They are friends, so i tolerate their choices of view and gearbox selections, but the dynamic racing line? I wold love to deny them all that one and have a more balanced race. Drive by colour isnt my style

AERODANCE
26-06-2015, 02:28
Wait. .the racing line is available in PRO room and you guys are arguing about forced cockpit? Is this true?

Ahaha. You've made my day.

danpinho
26-06-2015, 02:38
Forced CP view on Pro mode?
I huge YES!

promode before 2.0 = :sleeping:
promode after 2.0 = :cool:

nhitrac
26-06-2015, 03:05
I assume people play "pro" to simulate and replicate a real life racing experience. Why would you then go and sit on top of the bonnet to drive? Doesn't make any sense to me...

So yep, cockpit view (helmet for me) all the way

MABlosfeld
26-06-2015, 21:33
I filtered for GT3 and returned some rooms selected one and to my surprise the settings were using the same car (RUF).

"but I always play with my favorite car (BMW Z4) and can create room to this definition" .... "is wrong" ..... "I want to run with my favorite car" ..... "I will report this problem to the forum"

What to do, get and run with the wrong car or go out and complain in a forum?
I was, I met the RUF and ran until the end, because I never give up.

You can accept and stay or leave and find another room because this game is complete and was done for all to enjoy.

Kruleworld
26-06-2015, 22:57
i think its a good topic for discussion. is bumper cam really even all that better? is it even better at all?
while it gives an unobstructed view of the road ahead, it doesn't give a longer view, like the higher cam behind the car view.

stux
27-06-2015, 00:13
I assume people play "pro" to simulate and replicate a real life racing experience. Why would you then go and sit on top of the bonnet to drive? Doesn't make any sense to me...

So yep, cockpit view (helmet for me) all the way

Are you sitting at a desk with a wheel mounted on it staring at a small monitor?

I'm staring at a screen which is about as big as my windshield irl, but from a distance. Bonnet/hood cam is more realistic than having a dash board that is larger than life and driving from the parcel shelf.

MABlosfeld
27-06-2015, 16:24
The external view (bonnet, bumpers) is cool, fun, provides more sense of speed but is not realistic.
Who sets the rules of reality? You? Me? Who has this power?
We use real life as base and create the parameters needed to make the simulation as realistic as possible, the cockpit view is an example.

Fre.Mo
27-06-2015, 16:51
I assume people play "pro" to simulate and replicate a real life racing experience. Why would you then go and sit on top of the bonnet to drive? Doesn't make any sense to me...

So yep, cockpit view (helmet for me) all the way

Yes but it depends of the size of your screen, have you tryed a cockpit view with a 24" screen?

Chris Sercombe
27-06-2015, 16:58
I raced in cockpit view on my 19" crt for like 10 years, no problem :)

MABlosfeld
28-06-2015, 16:48
The game Project Cars is complex and complete with all available resources to be used and appreciated according to your preferences and taste.

The options are to filter the players with the same gameplay settings

you can play with keyboard or joystick just set a button or key for the clutch or you can use the automatic clutch.

Using the automatic clutch brings a slight disadvantage, the lap time is slower than some tenths of seconds. Among pilots 'normal' it will not make a difference, but among the ET's certainly does.

Read the full text here-> http://blogdoalex.com/transmission-model-caixa-de-cambio-no-iracing/

321Respawn
28-06-2015, 21:33
I am of the view that my cock should not be forced to pit .

bc525
28-06-2015, 23:35
Recently I've had a few online races that have forced me into using the front bumper cam view - and I absolutely hate it. Can't stand it. It always takes me a few laps to get comfortable with turning laps in that point of view, and what's even tougher is that these hosts don't allow any practice or qualifying, they go straight to the race without a chance to get used to that view.

Why do that? Why force all the other players to use a certain point of view? I just don't understand that.

stux
29-06-2015, 00:10
Recently I've had a few online races that have forced me into using the front bumper cam view - and I absolutely hate it. Can't stand it. It always takes me a few laps to get comfortable with turning laps in that point of view, and what's even tougher is that these hosts don't allow any practice or qualifying, they go straight to the race without a chance to get used to that view.

Why do that? Why force all the other players to use a certain point of view? I just don't understand that.

To give the host an advantage

DECATUR PLAYA
29-06-2015, 01:48
I race chase view because I like looking at my car. I paid 350 for my xbox 1 I played 60 bucks for Pcars and I'm going to play the way I like because Pcars lets me period. It also helps me tune my car faster because I can see everything it is doing. Wheel slide, corner entry and exit angles etc.... In my room you can race how you want to.

I do however understand why professional guys would not want to play with chase guy. It's because of the blind spot advantage. Chase guys don't have a blind spot. This 6 sense ability to read the blind spot is actually a skill that seperate professional drivers. It's part 6 sense part skill and part race craft. Whether it should be allowed is a matter of the room. If your trying to get signed by Red Bull next year then you should be in a room full of cockpit drivers. If you just enjoy playing your game you should play how you want.

P cars is something new guys it's a bridge between a hardcore simulator and a video game. Although I play in chase mode I take my racing very seriously and enjoy all the simulation affects that are still present as I race in this mode.

Best advice is find some people that race how you race so you can enjoy a game that you paid for your way.

Ozy_80
29-06-2015, 06:11
Yeah i have similar issue - im very used to the bumber cam. I race with wheel so cockpit view is annoying cause i see the steering wheel on screen as well as the one in front of me. In the options i was able to change a few things around - now i have cockpit view without the steering wheel on screen. I also increased the field of view. These changes were good, now a little practice should make me better.

Luke Townsend
29-06-2015, 06:15
Recently I've had a few online races that have forced me into using the front bumper cam view - and I absolutely hate it. Can't stand it. It always takes me a few laps to get comfortable with turning laps in that point of view, and what's even tougher is that these hosts don't allow any practice or qualifying, they go straight to the race without a chance to get used to that view.

Why do that? Why force all the other players to use a certain point of view? I just don't understand that.

I thought being stuck in bumper cam is a known bug. Seen it discussed on this forum somewhere.

MABlosfeld
29-06-2015, 13:46
I thought being stuck in bumper cam is a known bug. Seen it discussed on this forum somewhere.

It is a bug