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sergiumtz
29-06-2015, 15:45
So you want to brake, right? But you've got this moron behind you, who will use your car to slow his, and next thing you know, you're.... cutting the turn and you get a penalty. How on earth can I get a penalty when the dumbass pushed me? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Roadtrip2k6
29-06-2015, 15:48
yes this should be fixed, it should be easy to add some code that says if there was a rear impact before you cut the corner the you should not be penalised

Mr.Smoke
29-06-2015, 15:53
Hopefully this issue can be addressed in a future patch. Part of the reason i dread public races.

Gejabo
29-06-2015, 15:54
The best thing you can hope for is that the other guy also gets a penalty for ramming you.
The system just detecs you leaving the track, it can't determine why.

I think thats how it works.

madmax2069
29-06-2015, 15:54
Then you'll have people punting others off just to cut the corner because it will void the corner/off track penalty. So no I dont agree with this.

sergiumtz
29-06-2015, 15:56
If you're on the front grid, and someone pushes you, you at the first turn at Monza, you get 10 seconds of penalty. From 1st/2nd, you go DIRECTLY to 10th/12th. And even though most gamers suck donkey balls when it comes to racing games, you still get some good ones in that race, so you're realistically looking at MAYBE a podium finish (depending on the number of laps). This is not good mate.

FoxMulder
29-06-2015, 16:06
Since everyone wants as much simulation as possible, I'd say if you get pushed off you have to suck it up and get going again. However, I also would like to see a drivethrough penalty for those who make contact, probably determined by the severity of said contact. In general, I'd like to see more drivethrough penalties instead of those slow-down ones.

madmax2069
29-06-2015, 16:10
Since everyone wants as much simulation as possible, I'd say if you get pushed off you have to suck it up and get going again. However, I also would like to see a drivethrough penalty for those who make contact, probably determined by the severity of said contact. In general, I'd like to see more drivethrough penalties instead of those slow-down ones.

Now this I will agree with to a point. But griefers and trolls will more then likely find a way to use it against people. Loke they do with the penalties that are already in the game.

FAster
29-06-2015, 19:00
One of the tyres touches the gravel and invalidated lap, but not for running off widely from the run-off ways! Whats the logic whats the difference!?

Mad Al
29-06-2015, 20:09
One of the tyres touches the gravel and invalidated lap, but not for running off widely from the run-off ways! Whats the logic whats the difference!?

Invalidated lap only means the time is disallowed... it's not that the lap didn't count in a race (that would be bloody harsh!)

MrFlibble81
29-06-2015, 20:23
Since everyone wants as much simulation as possible, I'd say if you get pushed off you have to suck it up and get going again. However, I also would like to see a drivethrough penalty for those who make contact, probably determined by the severity of said contact. In general, I'd like to see more drivethrough penalties instead of those slow-down ones.

I agree to a point. In real life if a driver gets pushed off track they don't get forced to do 30 MPH for the next 5 seconds. I honestly don't think there should be any kind of slow down penalty.

That being said however, I do think that the person who pushed you off purposefully should get a driver through/stop and go penalty.

I don't know how easy that would be to code though since what I know about computers and software I could write on the back of a postage stamp!

MortICi
29-06-2015, 20:32
Invalidated lap only means the time is disallowed... it's not that the lap didn't count in a race (that would be bloody harsh!)

I wonder if there is anyone/way to create maps that show track limits (some runoffs you can run wide on) some run offs you have to have 2 wheels on the tarmac.

Silverstone is an example where it has some wide run-offs that are legal and can be used by players.

I think the general rule is 2 wheels off, 2 wheels on. But in some cases there are runoffs that you're allowed all 4 off.

Pfalzdriver
30-06-2015, 09:20
I completely agree. At the "Nordschleife", espacially at the part "Breitscheid" you always use the curbs with two tires, and it is impossible to go of the track with all tires. You dont want to mess with the wall. ;) But if you stay for to long on the curbs, the time isnt valid anymore. Shouldnt be that hard to change the game in the way that you get only an invalid laptime/penalty if you leave the track with all tires. And getting a penalty/invalid laptime for being pushed of the track isnt very cool. But the worst part imho is the fact, that you even get denied your time if you are avoiding a collision.

creepyd
30-06-2015, 11:51
But the worst part imho is the fact, that you even get denied your time if you are avoiding a collision.
Exactly this.
I watched a few races at Croft this weekend, very close racing!
Ginetta Junior's, Clio Cup, Porsche Cup, BTCC.. In every race on every lap there were numerous cars going onto the grass and cutting the odd chicane.
The first chicane of the lap regularly had 3-4 cars cutting a corner in order to avoid collisions. No penalties handed out, they are within their rights to do so as long as they gain no advantage!

That's the key "gain no advantage".
Tough to work in, but going off the track should only cause problems if I gained time.

Stag
30-06-2015, 12:14
These wreckers should be banned in some way and sent back to bash their bishops playing cod.
Last w end a great race 25 laps 6 clean racers and two cods who on the 20th lap parked nose to nose across the track and took out every other car inside 3 laps It was impossible to get passed them you went one way one got you if you went the other way the other got you
One of the tossers even went by the user. ..?. Pervert.
That says a lot

Luke Townsend
30-06-2015, 13:29
These wreckers should be banned in some way and sent back to bash their bishops playing cod.
Last w end a great race 25 laps 6 clean racers and two cods who on the 20th lap parked nose to nose across the track and took out every other car inside 3 laps It was impossible to get passed them you went one way one got you if you went the other way the other got you
One of the tossers even went by the user. ..?. Pervert.
That says a lot

That's really bad. I really sympathise. Some of us don't have much spare time to race (real life gets in the way), so when an online race gets ruined like that it can be gutting. I'm very hopeful that SMS are working hard on countering this - it's been raised so many times in the forum that it's clearly affecting a lot of people's enjoyment.

sVig
30-06-2015, 13:51
Personally I'd just like to actually be penalised for something, anything. Never been penalised for anything against the AI. But then the AI are never penalised for anything or even get blue flags.

Stag
30-06-2015, 13:54
That's really bad. I really sympathise. Some of us don't have much spare time to race (real life gets in the way), so when an online race gets ruined like that it can be gutting. I'm very hopeful that SMS are working hard on countering this - it's been raised so many times in the forum that it's clearly affecting a lot of people's enjoyment.

Personally I don't think there's as many wreckers as it may seem. Just the usual bunch that use multi ids and come on here saying the games bust. When in actual fact they are probably 13 got 3 asbos and haven't a clue about cars tuning or racing Can barely read or write and the favourite pastimes vandalism
They hopefully will get bored and return to cod before long.

Diablo944
30-06-2015, 14:40
I wold love to see the end of the forced throttle limit. It sucks to get in a situation that then forces you to drive at around 30 mph for x amount of seconds. I would take a minutes penalty time added to the race over the arcade limiter that the game is using. I have cut corners in races, accidentally, still a foul i know, but when it just invalidates lap time and the car still behaves like a car and lets you continue, it keeps the realism alive. The moment the limiter cuts in and holds you at pootle mode? Any realism illusions disappear right there

MortICi
30-06-2015, 15:05
The video below upsets me because of the blatant cutting on the chicanes, you should not be able to get away with it and that's an easy 3 to 5 second gain by cutting them this way. I think if the damage system was more vicious and the suspension got damaged from cutting corners in such a way it would reduce some of the abuse. I honestly don't know what can be done to help. However, I do agree that there is some work to be done with penalties for sure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pM35RrpAcc

Patric van Beek
15-10-2015, 09:30
agree because in real life did you ever see somebody slow down like that in a race! it's ridiculous!!!!!!

Patric van Beek
15-10-2015, 09:36
So is Slighty mad reading this? or is it just us complaining and nothing happens, the same with cars that are left behind on the track come on slightly mad WTF!!! hahaha

hkraft300
15-10-2015, 13:03
Agree the penalty system shouldn't be in the game. The cut track detection is good.
Right now in a race you get warnings from director and time penalty then DQ, with persistent violations.
SMS should remove the time penalties. Instead, after the warnings give drive-through penalty and then black flag DQ.
Much more realism.

AB_Attack
15-10-2015, 13:23
Agree the penalty system shouldn't be in the game. The cut track detection is good.
Right now in a race you get warnings from director and time penalty then DQ, with persistent violations.
SMS should remove the time penalties. Instead, after the warnings give drive-through penalty and then black flag DQ.
Much more realism.
Then some will blast over the grass in Monza chicane and laugh at the warning and gain lots of time and places, not giving them back. Is that realistic?

The penalty system is pretty good I think, it's a game. An immediate drive-through penalty on cut will not be liked either and is much harsher. The game can't stop people from hitting others from behind and I don't want a collision penalty when contact is not my fault. The game can't tell. Join leagues, everybody try to behave and live with it. Also, lots of times people have been swearing about this and that online when it has actually been a racing incident looking at the replay. Pile ups at start aren't always due to careless driving. Somebody touches, bounce int to other car, hits next and then pile-up and the "fu noob" is thrown to the left and right.

Mike Laskey
15-10-2015, 13:28
So is Slighty mad reading this? or is it just us complaining and nothing happens, the same with cars that are left behind on the track come on slightly mad WTF!!! hahaha

Yes we read, even if we cannot reply to everything. Feedback is important in helping shaping future updates and titles. We know the penalty systems in pCARS are not perfect (I do not think they are terrible though, sorry if people disagree). We do intend to rework/spend time in this area for Phoenix.

Liquid7394
15-10-2015, 13:43
I think the penalty system is fine, but I do think slowdown penalties should only be for major track cutting such as completely skipping corners etc. Getting a 5 sec penalty for very minor cuts is pretty annoying.

I think it should be like this imo.



All cutting gives you a warning, after enough warnings you will be issued a drive through penalty. Refuse to do the drive through penalty and you're disqualified.
Major cutting has a 5 second penalty and gives a warning.
Minor cutting only gives a warning.


It's probably too late to make any significant changes to Pcars 1 so hopefully Pcars 2 will be better.

Krus Control
15-10-2015, 13:59
The penalty system is awful. Here's how it plays in to my experience. Somebody knocks me off track and now I have a penalty. I made a mistake and barely went off track and now I have a penalty. What, you get a penalty for going off there on the outside in race? On some tracks it's just ridiculous. Yeah some people will cut if penalties are turned off. But did you ever think maybe you don't want to be racing these people at all. These people are the real problem and penalties are not the solution, but another problem if you don't leave them off. We need the host kick option to get these people out of our lobbies. I don't know why this stupid time penalty system has been perpetuated in lots of games. It's a stupid solution. PCARS penalty system is way too sensitive on most tracks for the races. Piratella at Imola is a good example of the system being completely wrong. If you go wide there even slightly it's a 5 sec penalty. Yes, going wide here is cheating, but a huge penalty is not the solution. What happens in reality is someone makes a mistake and goes wide because mistakes happen. This person gets a penalty and is very unhappy. This person gets slowed down in the middle of a busy racetrack with heavy traffic and probably causes other incidents. Nobody is happy. There was no problem to begin with and the penalty system just makes a normal race less enjoyable. You can't cut at Piratella and gain massively. You can maybe gain .5 in some cars. So why is this cutthroat system in place there? It honestly makes absolutely no sense. And the story is the same on basically every track. Just turn penalties off and pray for host kick function.

hkraft300
15-10-2015, 14:05
I race with a good bunch. Prefer to turn penalties off because none of the boys cut track intentionally: it's a racing incident or a spin.

I don't mind the system as is. If I host a public lobby, turn on penalties. Private lobby I'm happy to turn it off.

Maybe the update to the penalty system comes with improvements to the flags? Will be interesting to see. Looking forward to it :)

That said: even with slow down penalties, I've lost places at the finish of Le Mans where someone a few seconds behind at the Porsche curves flies straight ahead and across the finish line at speed. S* happens in public lobbies that's a given.

Invisible walls? Glue puddles off track? Invisible kerbs that break your car at speed or something I don't know. Each has its pros and cons.

Agreed the best solution is to race with guys who get racing.

ermo
15-10-2015, 14:17
Yes we read, even if we cannot reply to everything. Feedback is important in helping shaping future updates and titles. We know the penalty systems in pCARS are not perfect (I do not think they are terrible though, sorry if people disagree). We do intend to rework/spend time in this area for Phoenix.

To anyone reading this and wondering what "Phoenix" is, it is the SMS internal code name for pCARS 2. The internal code name for pCARS is "Aries". :)

chig88
15-10-2015, 14:30
To anyone reading this and wondering what "Phoenix" is, it is the SMS internal code name for pCARS 2. The internal code name for pCARS is "Aries". :)

Not much of a code name if everyone knows what it means :D

RomKnight
15-10-2015, 15:59
I just want the option to disable that. League racing needs this OFF. Getting 5s slowdown because of "unintentional touch" at the right corner and it is a lost race.

It doesn't cause frustration, it causes hanger.

Sampo
15-10-2015, 18:53
I agree with the option.

I had a quick thought about the penalties (while drunk to be honest) and came up with this:

make grass a bit more slippery

cut track:
cut throttle to half for as long as you're off

hit car in front of you:
cut throttle totally for 1s

get hit by a car behind you:
negate any throttle cut for 2s and after that negate cut track penalty until you're on track

(assuming that track cutting is a state that can be checked at any time and not just a line that is crossed)

stangnutlx
15-10-2015, 19:02
Someday maybe after patch 20.0 they'll fix the magnetic car stupidity.

Sampo
15-10-2015, 19:06
What's with the hyperbole? Maybe it will be fixed with patch 7?

RomKnight
16-10-2015, 12:39
Yesterday I got one new (to me at least).

Around dubai I got off (by quite a margin) and got a 5s penalty. Getting back to the track I got another...

ermo
16-10-2015, 13:09
Someday maybe after patch 20.0 they'll fix the magnetic car stupidity.

As I understand it, it is unlikely that the "magnetic car stupidity" can be fixed within the scope of pCARS 1.

When I queried Steve Dunn (the SMS Physics Lead) about it @WMD, he noted that collision physics are handled by PhysX running at the recommended minimum sampling frequency of 50Hz, whereas the vehicle dynamics simulation for the player "High Definition Vehicle" (HD Vehicle) runs at 600Hz. At the time, this tradeoff was made to maximize available CPU time for various other essential tasks as I understand it.

What this means is that given the relative velocities of the in-game actors, the PhysX collision box of the actors (cars) can effectively move inside other actors (cars or track objects) in between sampling steps, which results in too large collision force vectors being calculated in the next simulation step and needing to be 'resolved' or 'mitigated' via various bits of conditional code that handle pathological (corner) cases. In essence, the tradeoff is between magnetic cars (applying extra damping to collision yaw moments) and ping-pong ball collision behaviour where seemingly light contact makes the actors rebound much too violently.

If there had been sufficient CPU budget to up the PhysX collision detection sampling rate, the collision detection system would in theory be able to react faster and more 'natural' in a sense, which implies that the corner cases might not need to be mitigated to the same extent as now.

Note that the above reflects my current understanding of the issue but should not be taken as gospel as I obviously do not have source code access. :)

Hogan
16-10-2015, 13:58
On same way i see that "[PCSR]Rhums 0:08.245 22/08/2015 13:53; here => http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=904625875&vehicle=1909945073

Aizcold
16-10-2015, 14:54
What I would really like to see is some more options for the penalty system so the host can adjust the settings according to his or her liking. This would need to at least include the option to set penalties off but keep flags on. It's kind of annoying that this is currently not possible.

So my suggestion/request would be to add a few more options in the race settings menu for enabling or disabling flags and penalties. Preferably this would include:

Flags: On or Off
Warnings (for cutting the track): On or Off
Five second penalties: On or Off
Drive through penalties (for false starts): On or Off

RomKnight
20-10-2015, 11:13
You forgot drive-through for track limites abuse (cut-track)

Mark_V
20-10-2015, 14:38
That's not rare the AI car behind you in order to avoid you, or at least this is supposed to be the reason, completely cut the chicane overtaking you and having no penalty at all.

That makes me mad, as soon as I have the chance I usually end up kicking him our of the track, but that's a risky behaviour.

tonypbeck
21-10-2015, 07:15
I was in a league race on Monday at Hockenheim and went over the curb a little in turn one but came back on the track immediately and got two 10 second penalties, one after the other, for cutting the track.

Surely turn 1 incidents like this should not get a penalty, my race was over before it even started.

It would be good if you had the option to disable penalties, we don't do these things on purpose and sometimes you just run wide.

Mark_V
21-10-2015, 15:36
Disabling penalties would lead to a complete mess, everyone cutting here and there.

I would propose to address penalties to AI too, instead.

Schnizz58
21-10-2015, 15:58
Disabling penalties would lead to a complete mess, everyone cutting here and there.

I would propose to address penalties to AI too, instead.
I agree with that and also the slowdown penalties are dangerous. Just add time at the end.

Krus Control
21-10-2015, 16:09
Disabling penalties would lead to a complete mess, everyone cutting here and there.

I would propose to address penalties to AI too, instead.

I don't think this is the case. I never run penalties. I can only think of 2 or 3 online races from the hundreds I've done where people cutting changed the outcome. Even then it was pretty clear in each instance who cheated and everyone knew who the real winner was. I think the system should be there if you want it. Some lobbies do get bad I'm sure. But I think off should be the norm. I'm all for this separation of toggling flags, penalties, and drive throughs. Having a racer near stopped in the middle of a heated busy racetrack is always stupid and never good in my opinion.

hkraft300
21-10-2015, 16:52
The slow-down penalties for cutting track just aren't very "sim" is it?
You don't see a driver's throttle pegged for 5-10-15 seconds for cutting track. Public online lobbies are disappointing for wreckers and cheaters, suRe.

How ineffective would a warning->drive-through->DQ system be, for breaching track limits?

Gravit8
21-10-2015, 22:08
So you want to brake, right? But you've got this moron behind you, who will use your car to slow his, and next thing you know, you're.... cutting the turn and you get a penalty. How on earth can I get a penalty when the dumbass pushed me? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Turn the AI down and stop holding them up. They don't hit you unless your in their way.
You won't post a vid because you can't.

Edit:
This space reserved for replays at 65-100 percent AI videos. If needed.

Or to realize he's talking about online and I was misunderstanding. Haha


So to make appropriate comment now.
Both players should be penalized in that situation. Or just the rammer.
But it's not cool to leave it like it is where the rammer can exploit the penalty system and really ruin someone else's race b
Pretty easily I might add.

Krus Control
21-10-2015, 22:18
I disagree. The AI brakes later than I can in some chicanes. I've had them be too aggressive before and bump me off at the chicane. I've even had an AI take us both out where I got a penalty and they didn't and it was infuriating. The AI is not perfect and they don't always react properly to perfectly mundane racing maneuvers. Though I will say that they're alright for the most part, I still won't race them. Racing is about human competition at it's core. AI does a good job, but if you want to have a good race it's gotta be real people.

Gravit8
21-10-2015, 22:23
Disabling penalties would lead to a complete mess, everyone cutting here and there.

I would propose to address penalties to AI too, instead.

No AI is fine and waaaaaayyyyy better than than most players. You can cheat them to get back any time lost to them too.
Adding penalties to them would just make it a sloppy mess for them. They go off track into penalty zones to avoid wrecks just like player might sometimes. Penalty system Can't determine when it was warranted or not. Player isn't penalized.
It's not like they cheat, unless your holding them up and activate their red mist. Then God help you. Your about to get smashed.

Gravit8
21-10-2015, 22:51
I disagree. The AI brakes later than I can in some chicanes. I've had them be too aggressive before and bump me off at the chicane. I've even had an AI take us both out where I got a penalty and they didn't and it was infuriating. The AI is not perfect and they don't always react properly to perfectly mundane racing maneuvers. Though I will say that they're alright for the most part, I still won't race them. Racing is about human competition at it's core. AI does a good job, but if you want to have a good race it's gotta be real people.

You sir are wrong. IMO I will take 15 AI from 65-100 over 15 random knuckleheads any day.
I guarantee your chances of finishing a race without incident is way better if you're running against AI

They are even better and more consistent than the leagues I tried. That's leagues with 7-10 people max. Still unbalanced and full of drama.
I get what I want from AI every time so far. Good training and practice. No drama, unless it's my doing or fault.

You can call it all right, but truth is it's the best on the console market by miles and miles.
Unless forza 6 improved 100%, but I doubt it.
RFactor might challenge it on PC, but I wouldn't know.

Dynomight Motorsports
21-10-2015, 23:13
You should still not get Penalized unless you gain time. System should be able to recognize if your car has made contact with another car and not penalize you. I was driving up through Eau Rouge and an AI pushed me wide. We both when outside the limits but I got the 10 second penalty. Its total BS. You can watch any series on television and see that the Real Drivers push the limits way farther than SMS allows. But really if you let off the throttle you shouldn't get a penalty. Its a very Lazy code they wrote.

Krus Control
21-10-2015, 23:36
Agree, disagree, it doesn't really matter. If you race with the right people it is 100000X better than racing with AI. Even if there is heartbreak I will understand if it was human error or intentional, if it was stupidity or just a racing incident. With the AI the feeling is always the same with every incident. "F the AI" basically is how I feel any time they touch me. Then they activate their red mist. It's just no fun when things get rough with the AI. But I can think of plenty of times I scrubbed side panels with some random guy online and had a blast. There is respect and understanding with humans that the AI can't recreate. And then stuff like them bumping me off and giving me a penalty happens, even though I lifted and slowed as much as I could, and I just say forget it with the AI. But if you do like racing them more power to you.

Gravit8
22-10-2015, 00:09
You should still not get Penalized unless you gain time. System should be able to recognize if your car has made contact with another car and not penalize you. I was driving up through Eau Rouge and an AI pushed me wide. We both when outside the limits but I got the 10 second penalty. Its total BS. You can watch any series on television and see that the Real Drivers push the limits way farther than SMS allows. But really if you let off the throttle you shouldn't get a penalty. Its a very Lazy code they wrote.

Maybe in some instances, but certainly not all. I think a vid would be appropriate to show what you mean. Otherwise your just some guy saying something, while others are not experiencing the same. So video please that shows how they are wrong. Not words.

I find you can really push the limits at turn one at hockenheim. Run over the inside curb without penalty and then exceed track limits on outside. But if you go to far out there without lifting and gain advantage, boom penalty pops up. You can exceed the limits with caution without penalty, but if you exceed them blatantly over curb and on throttle. Your Caught
Certainly no laziness there IMO. They got it just right.
I'm testing them everywhere in career and have not found any cheating AI yet.

The only problem I have noticed. Is when the AI are taking a different line then the player does. They sometimes will completely back out of the throttle and the player can use it to his advantage to gain significant seconds over them. There are two locations on hockenheim and most other tracks to do this. First corner, they don't even bother with apex, they take a wide silly line to avoid crashing with player. Giving away at least a full second.
I feel like these are probably spots where the developers couldn't get the AI to respond appropriately without causing incident so they just back off instead. There's plenty of places where that can be utilized to take advantage of the AI so that the Ai does not need penalties.
you get your time back if you want to take it

Gravit8
22-10-2015, 00:36
Agree, disagree, it doesn't really matter. If you race with the right people it is 100000X better than racing with AI. Even if there is heartbreak I will understand if it was human error or intentional, if it was stupidity or just a racing incident. With the AI the feeling is always the same with every incident. "F the AI" basically is how I feel any time they touch me. Then they activate their red mist. It's just no fun when things get rough with the AI. But I can think of plenty of times I scrubbed side panels with some random guy online and had a blast. There is respect and understanding with humans that the AI can't recreate. And then stuff like them bumping me off and giving me a penalty happens, even though I lifted and slowed as much as I could, and I just say forget it with the AI. But if you do like racing them more power to you.


The right people is pretty hard to find when your a 100%er
Not a lot out there. The AI serves me better. And on my own schedule.
Don't get me wrong. I love racing people when I can. That's just something I have to save for Iracing because they do it right. Maybe forza does too. But this is a free for all mess. With very few talented racers competing openly and fairly in a legit series.

I've yet to see a league based off of in game career content or invitationals.
That would just be too logical, easy to follow and fun.

It's always the league leaders or a small clique within that set up all their own homer rules.

Give me AI who don't punt ya for passing them clean and easy. That recognize the difference between clean race craft and ham fisted cutting & punting. Then race you back the same way.
If you complain about the AI. You don't have them covered yet to 100%

Krus Control
22-10-2015, 01:21
Give me AI who don't punt ya for passing them clean and easy. That recognize the difference between clean race craft and ham fisted cutting & punting. Then race you back the same way.
If you complain about the AI. You don't have them covered yet to 100%

There are problems with the AI. If you can't acknowledge this it's just silly of you. I, personally, never have a hard time finding fast, clean people online. Every night I'm running into great racers in random lobbies. Multiplayer is not nearly as hopeless as some would lead you to believe. I've had such a consistently good time in PCARS online, I don't really see where all the hate comes from. If the people are slow I leave. And if they're fast then they're generally good people and clean racers. This is on PC at least. Maybe Xbox and PS4 racers have it rough. There is an exception to this though and that is the GT3 class. I just straight up don't do GT3 because it is somehow so consistently dirty and filled with the most awful racers. As long as you stay away from GT3 you'll be fine. I still can't figure out why that's where all the "intermediots" go. It's strange but it seems to keep them out of the road car and historic lobbies I'm generally in.

hkraft300
22-10-2015, 01:37
The right people is pretty hard to find when your a 100%er
Not a lot out there. The AI serves me better. And on my own schedule.
Don't get me wrong. I love racing people when I can. That's just something I have to save for Iracing because they do it right. Maybe forza does too. But this is a free for all mess. With very few talented racers competing openly and fairly in a legit series.


Right people are easy enough to find.
I've found many here on this forum, and in public lobbies, and in the very few league races I've participated in. Most are faster than me, and so far (karts, LMP3, group 5) 100% AI are a breeze. Being a "100%er" on pCars is only special depending on the class - some the AI are super fast, others they're not, from what I hear.
Public lobbies are one thing, organised/league races are different thing entirely. No league or legit competition tolerates a bad attitude, and there are plenty of leagues (GT3 mostly) out there.
As the title matures more and more "legit" competitions will pop up. Soon they may even be legit to your standards.

Krus Control
22-10-2015, 02:47
The AI is too slow everywhere in everything even at 100%. Sometimes they give me a run in the rain but usually not. They're boring and then they get super aggressive sometimes. In pre-release you could turn them up to my pace but somehow it just didn't work. Their physics couldn't handle it or something and they took even more strange lines. Also they were so aggressive that side by side racing wasn't possible.

SUBGTRACER
22-10-2015, 03:04
Did a AI race last night with F1 took me 10 goes to get through the first kicker in one piece @ hockenheim race track ........ was very frustrating :)

RomKnight
22-10-2015, 09:55
Disabling penalties would lead to a complete mess, everyone cutting here and there.

I would propose to address penalties to AI too, instead.

NO.

We need to be able to disable this.

League racing last night, I was under braking when I got aware of the guy behind missing the braking marker. Kept braking straight he passed by us like a jet fighter. I and the other car were not hit but I did have to get off the track and guess what?

Yeah, it was nice to have a penalty for track cutting to avoid being hit hard.

webuserjonny
22-10-2015, 11:48
In my experience of running wide if I get off the throttle and not take advantage, where an advantage would be gained by staying on the throttle, I don't get a slow down penalty.

I think the answer to cars suddenly slowing and causing a hazard to chasing cars is to make the car ghost as it serves the slow down penalty. If a car is going the wrong way it now ghosts so surely it wouldn't take a whole lot of time to add the lines of code needed to force the ghosting when a slow penalty is being served?

RomKnight
22-10-2015, 15:01
On throttle I was certainly not.. still got the penalty.

And on dubai there is one place you get one for getting out and another for coming back to track, I know, I got them and I spun so, not on the throttle either.

Gravit8
22-10-2015, 16:18
There are problems with the AI. If you can't acknowledge this it's just silly of you. I, personally, never have a hard time finding fast, clean people online. Every night I'm running into great racers in random lobbies. Multiplayer is not nearly as hopeless as some would lead you to believe. I've had such a consistently good time in PCARS online, I don't really see where all the hate comes from. If the people are slow I leave. And if they're fast then they're generally good people and clean racers. This is on PC at least. Maybe Xbox and PS4 racers have it rough. There is an exception to this though and that is the GT3 class. I just straight up don't do GT3 because it is somehow so consistently dirty and filled with the most awful racers. As long as you stay away from GT3 you'll be fine. I still can't figure out why that's where all the "intermediots" go. It's strange but it seems to keep them out of the road car and historic lobbies I'm generally in.


Yes there are issues as with all AI. I mentioned how the developers probably have them back off when they can't get them to act right. I just think it's better than a lot of drivers, especially ones complaining.
It gets blamed for a lot of people's lack of skill.
I find if you run into a robot, it's probably your fault for not figuring out how it works and can be raced with.
I think the majority of complaints come from people who bump and bang with it all day and think ITS CHEATING THEM somehow? Just don't get it.

Cholton82
22-10-2015, 16:32
Are these time penalties used in career ? As I've never had one

Schnizz58
22-10-2015, 16:35
Are these time penalties used in career ? As I've never had one
No, you'll get a few warnings and then if you don't shape up, you'll get DQ'ed.

Plato99
22-10-2015, 16:35
NO.

We need to be able to disable this.

League racing last night, I was under braking when I got aware of the guy behind missing the braking marker. Kept braking straight he passed by us like a jet fighter. I and the other car were not hit but I did have to get off the track and guess what?

Yeah, it was nice to have a penalty for track cutting to avoid being hit hard.

Good point. I was in an 8 lap race around Le Mans the other night and got torpedoed off the chicane at the end of the Mulsanne straight by another player rejoining after he spun off. That doesnt bother me too much, but it does bother me when I get a 5 second penalty for crossing the gravel trap to rejoin the circuit.

OctoberDusk06
25-10-2015, 10:25
Yes there are issues as with all AI. I mentioned how the developers probably have them back off when they can't get them to act right. I just think it's better than a lot of drivers, especially ones complaining.
It gets blamed for a lot of people's lack of skill.
I find if you run into a robot, it's probably your fault for not figuring out how it works and can be raced with.
I think the majority of complaints come from people who bump and bang with it all day and think ITS CHEATING THEM somehow? Just don't get it.

You make a good point about GT3 leagues, but having run one just after the game came out (I know, brave, right?), any given league simply takes on the character of its members. Sometimes knowing who you race with is much better, but be careful of the guy who gets his buddies together and calls it a league. We learned a lot by going out on a limb and not expecting perfection, just like real life.

Problem with GT3 is that the cars are dramatically unequal, it's the most popular class now because most of North America is afraid of driving anything but a car that permits them to have road rage since they can't "rub" (and, you know "rubbin' is racing" -- unless the A.I. do it to you), and these N.A. GT lovers (I like the class, but am not obsessed with it) typically watch cars beat each other up so the drivers can fight. (I know, I grew up around NASCAR, unfortunately). But to pretend like the A.I. are anything but computers that are programmed by people is folly. Just like the game itself, you are really racing a programmers brain, not "a car." You are not going to get a perfect experience. And if you can't figure A.I. out, then you really shouldn't be racing humans either (I have to assume they never actually raced, because then they would know what unfair really means). Diversity is better, and our past/current leagues went from GT to FC to LMP2 to Lotus open wheel and more. With very clean racers on a large racing site, we have a blast with or without the A.I. It's funny how the cleanest racers never mind A.I. most times. And no, we don't have "homer" rules like "you can only play cars I think are equal" etc. If you think a car in a given class is better, then drive it, don't ban it. There were growing pains for sure, and sometimes we had THE best races with a handful of people and A.I. in the mix. Why? Precisely for the reasons you point to. Even better is the "hardcore" clean racer who turns the tags off so as to not know who is human or A.I. because he treats both the same.

I have played three versions of Forza (you have to race the A.I. in that game, sadly), five versions of F1 (where the A.I. have improved dramatically) and other racers ranging from Race Pro, to Shift Unleashed to GRID Autosport, to Dirt. And run in countless leagues that ranged from my own site, to sites run by two or three Stalin clones to (now) a site that gets their own reporters into F1 press conferences. Project Cars has the best A.I. hands down. IF you a.) don't treat them like punching bags; b.) don't expect them to get out of your way because you are a "human" and; c.) don't like to "take them out" NASCAR style unless they bend to your will. In the two of three leagues we continue to run with A.I., I have had far less problems with them of recent (and anyone who has a clue about computers knows A.I. is incredibly difficult to get right). In fact, I have seen them take dirt up their grill or slam on the brakes to avoid me. Invariably, if I really look closely, I'll find that A.I. have not either turned into MY MY MY line or flipped my from behind without some concurrent action from me. The whiners I'm sure are moving when they got hit, but it's never their fault, just like it's not their fault when they race you. Like Bottas and Raikkonen, what they see is very different from what the T.V. camera sees which is entirely different from what should happen if either driver played it out again. On the whole, give me 10 random pCARS A.I. set to 95% over 10 random humans any day. Good example -- Racing in a "league" race the other night, I was tooling along the kink at Blanchimont (Spa) and it was dark enough to get arrested IRL if you didn't have your headlights on. My car was slightly damaged from two "superior" humans hitting me in the ass (both very sportsmanlike about it) and, additionally, I was in the "go 10 mph slower with somewhat decent grip" Ruf, when, a human with no lights on slams into my rear bumper doing 150mph with no lights on, then, after I start to spin, slams into my passenger door, killing me, knocking me out of the way, and then speeding off. I ask you...who has less intelligence...the A.I. who would have raced me clean WITH lights on or...? You get the picture. Of course, I have made mistakes, but not without regret or slowing down for a pass-back (you see, we humans can do this). So, when you play on xbox, in a league full of NASCAR fans, in the GT3 class, with loaded deck for rules, then you better be prepared to get really treated like you are on a dirt track in upper New York with Tony Stewart. And so I was. I'd post the video so you could have a laugh (as I do now), but I don't want to embarrass anyone.

So, I think the biggest upgrade in the last patch may been to the humans. They made the lights turn on automatically. ;)

Gravit8
25-10-2015, 21:15
You make a good point about GT3 leagues, but having run one just after the game came out (I know, brave, right?), any given league simply takes on the character of its members. Sometimes knowing who you race with is much better, but be careful of the guy who gets his buddies together and calls it a league. We learned a lot by going out on a limb and not expecting perfection, just like real life.

Problem with GT3 is that the cars are dramatically unequal, it's the most popular class now because most of North America is afraid of driving anything but a car that permits them to have road rage since they can't "rub" (and, you know "rubbin' is racing" -- unless the A.I. do it to you), and these N.A. GT lovers (I like the class, but am not obsessed with it) typically watch cars beat each other up so the drivers can fight. (I know, I grew up around NASCAR, unfortunately). But to pretend like the A.I. are anything but computers that are programmed by people is folly. Just like the game itself, you are really racing a programmers brain, not "a car." You are not going to get a perfect experience. And if you can't figure A.I. out, then you really shouldn't be racing humans either (I have to assume they never actually raced, because then they would know what unfair really means). Diversity is better, and our past/current leagues went from GT to FC to LMP2 to Lotus open wheel and more. With very clean racers on a large racing site, we have a blast with or without the A.I. It's funny how the cleanest racers never mind A.I. most times. And no, we don't have "homer" rules like "you can only play cars I think are equal" etc. If you think a car in a given class is better, then drive it, don't ban it. There were growing pains for sure, and sometimes we had THE best races with a handful of people and A.I. in the mix. Why? Precisely for the reasons you point to. Even better is the "hardcore" clean racer who turns the tags off so as to not know who is human or A.I. because he treats both the same.

I have played three versions of Forza (you have to race the A.I. in that game, sadly), five versions of F1 (where the A.I. have improved dramatically) and other racers ranging from Race Pro, to Shift Unleashed to GRID Autosport, to Dirt. And run in countless leagues that ranged from my own site, to sites run by two or three Stalin clones to (now) a site that gets their own reporters into F1 press conferences. Project Cars has the best A.I. hands down. IF you a.) don't treat them like punching bags; b.) don't expect them to get out of your way because you are a "human" and; c.) don't like to "take them out" NASCAR style unless they bend to your will. In the two of three leagues we continue to run with A.I., I have had far less problems with them of recent (and anyone who has a clue about computers knows A.I. is incredibly difficult to get right). In fact, I have seen them take dirt up their grill or slam on the brakes to avoid me. Invariably, if I really look closely, I'll find that A.I. have not either turned into MY MY MY line or flipped my from behind without some concurrent action from me. The whiners I'm sure are moving when they got hit, but it's never their fault, just like it's not their fault when they race you. Like Bottas and Raikkonen, what they see is very different from what the T.V. camera sees which is entirely different from what should happen if either driver played it out again. On the whole, give me 10 random pCARS A.I. set to 95% over 10 random humans any day. Good example -- Racing in a "league" race the other night, I was tooling along the kink at Blanchimont (Spa) and it was dark enough to get arrested IRL if you didn't have your headlights on. My car was slightly damaged from two "superior" humans hitting me in the ass (both very sportsmanlike about it) and, additionally, I was in the "go 10 mph slower with somewhat decent grip" Ruf, when, a human with no lights on slams into my rear bumper doing 150mph with no lights on, then, after I start to spin, slams into my passenger door, killing me, knocking me out of the way, and then speeding off. I ask you...who has less intelligence...the A.I. who would have raced me clean WITH lights on or...? You get the picture. Of course, I have made mistakes, but not without regret or slowing down for a pass-back (you see, we humans can do this). So, when you play on xbox, in a league full of NASCAR fans, in the GT3 class, with loaded deck for rules, then you better be prepared to get really treated like you are on a dirt track in upper New York with Tony Stewart. And so I was. I'd post the video so you could have a laugh (as I do now), but I don't want to embarrass anyone.

So, I think the biggest upgrade in the last patch may been to the humans. They made the lights turn on automatically. ;)


We should be friends. Haha
Both feel the same about leagues vs small groups of friends.
No leagues yet, just cliques is all I've found. Ones that make up rules or tracks super late, then expect you to try to get a piece of them on they're home turf.
And we both understand That AI at 95 is the sweet spot.

HypoToad
25-10-2015, 23:40
The penalty thing is hit and miss, if your doing a hot lap around Nordschleife in some parts you can run right off the track and get back on without your lap time invalidated and on others you just need to put a wheel partly over the curb and you get one?

hkraft300
25-10-2015, 23:44
The penalty thing is hit and miss, if your doing a hot lap around Nordschleife in some parts you can run right off the track and get back on without your lap time invalidated and on others you just need to put a wheel partly over the curb and you get one?

Some parts of a track you can't gain advantage by running out of the track limit.
Some parts of a track you can gain advantage where the limits are more strict.
I'm not a Nordschleife expert, but on other tracks I race on often, that's what seems to be the case.
TT, FP and race track limits are different.

tonypbeck
26-10-2015, 07:50
I thought the penalties were connected to still having 2 wheels on the track like in reality, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

smokinmasta
26-10-2015, 14:20
We have been having multiplayer private lobby races for months (Xbone) with few issues that are pcars related and more to do with how crap multiplayer is becoming on the whole these days (despite having 20 or 30 times faster internet speeds!)
Last night we had a nice lobby of 7 running ginetta juniors around Cadwell park.
Now we always penalties but there is nothing more insulting after spinning off track turning around rejoining to be presented with a 20 to 50 sec penalty!!

The penalty system is borked on certain tracks and needs reviewing!!

Other than that we as a group are still enjoying our weekly races running tyre wear, fuel use and random (read it always fcking rains!)

I jump on my PC version for better gfx every week but a group i play with only have Xbones (weve been racing together since around 2008/9)

OctoberDusk06
27-10-2015, 05:56
We have been having multiplayer private lobby races for months (Xbone) with few issues that are pcars related and more to do with how crap multiplayer is becoming on the whole these days (despite having 20 or 30 times faster internet speeds!)
Last night we had a nice lobby of 7 running ginetta juniors around Cadwell park.
Now we always penalties but there is nothing more insulting after spinning off track turning around rejoining to be presented with a 20 to 50 sec penalty!!

The penalty system is borked on certain tracks and needs reviewing!!

Other than that we as a group are still enjoying our weekly races running tyre wear, fuel use and random (read it always fcking rains!)

I jump on my PC version for better gfx every week but a group i play with only have Xbones (weve been racing together since around 2008/9)

Indeed. I have come to realize the value in either a formalized small group (this allowing others to join and welcoming them regardless) or informal gatherings. It always amuses me to see "leagues" with lap speed requirements and all sorts of hurdles to overcome just to be subjected to a clique that is either undemocratic or full of couch racers who have never competed on track (or are even old enough to get their license). On PC, I can understand being a little more serious because you can get fairly complex SIM racing from that platform (although nowhere near what real drivers train with in the upper tiers), but on the console, the connection between a programmers brain, the hardware, and real racing is virtually nonexistent, save for the track layout...and, funny enough, most of that crowd doesn't even use this connection, opting to race with a big fat computer generated arrow in the middle of the track. lol.

McSoulSuckerrr
27-10-2015, 09:46
Theres is definately a problem with the penalty-system, and cutting the track at Monza. PPL cutting the track though the chicanes without any penalty. I guess thats why its so popular? I tried to follow one time, and sure enough no penalty whatsoever. The worst part is this can be used to close enourmous distances on someone racing clean, and then they slamm you of the track. Anyway I agree with the OP that it goes against the purpose when they run you of the track, but its you that gets the penalty

Marrrfooo
27-10-2015, 09:54
Guys - if you're running closed/private lobbies with people then why not simply turn off the track limits? I appreciate this doesn't solve the problem and the track penalties system really could do with more sophistication - but if you've found even a small number of racers to race with (and assuming there is honour among thieves of course) then turn the track penalties off entirely. If everyone races with the right intentions then you're all good and the races won't be harmed.

Shadowoff
03-02-2016, 20:33
Hey,
to be true, I hate the penalty system in pCars... I also have penalties and flags deactivated. But in MP some guys have it on. I hate this "5 seconds slow down" penalty... Its useless... You get pushed wide at Le Mans first corner for example and get a penalty for it. Somebody smashes you at Sakiito GP at the first corner and you go wide, you get a penalty. Also the penalty it self is stupid. Why not (like in real life) a stop-and-go penalty or time penalty. The "5 seconds slow down" penalty is also mad, because when you get pushed wide in Blanchimont and get this penalty for example, you cant stabilise your car, because you cant give throttle and spin on the green stripe.

Dynomight Motorsports
03-02-2016, 22:46
I don't understand why there are penalties for running wide and losing time to begin with. I could understand if you cut the corner with the exception of running wide at the Glen or Hockenheim But most tracks running wide in the grass or gravel and getting a penalty is just idiotic. Also contact forcing you off and then getting a "bonus" penalty to boot...Awesome SMS!!! Just Awesome!!!

SUBGTRACER
03-02-2016, 23:05
Thread should be closed as it isn't going to get fixed in this version of the game .................

Dynomight Motorsports
03-02-2016, 23:08
Well they supposedly tuned the Penalty system in Patch 3 (I think) but they haven't seemed too concerned about it since.

TKMSte66
03-02-2016, 23:12
Well they supposedly tuned the Penalty system in Patch 3 (I think) but they haven't seemed too concerned about it since.

It's just W@ank. Simple

artao
03-02-2016, 23:13
Since everyone wants as much simulation as possible, I'd say if you get pushed off you have to suck it up and get going again. However, I also would like to see a drivethrough penalty for those who make contact, probably determined by the severity of said contact. In general, I'd like to see more drivethrough penalties instead of those slow-down ones.

Sadly, that won't happen in pCARS any more :(
But yeah, that slow-down penalty system has got to go. Seeing how that won't happen in PC, hopefully at least some polishing it up a lot.
Or maybe turn it into an added-time penalty somehow. That could work.

But really, manual drive-thrus and stop-and-go need to be in a racing game, for me. An option to make them automatic would be fine too.
Perhaps those penalties could be implemented with auto-pitting. The computer just drives your penalty for you. .. even THAT would be better than the slow-down thing. Very poor decision there, I must say.
With a slow-down penalty, you become a danger to other drivers around you.


... But then the AI are never penalised for anything or even get blue flags.

So this!! The AI should SO be getting penalties. And it's like they've never even heard of a blue flag. .. Don't know about yellow flags, cuz I've never seen one.


I just want the option to disable that. League racing needs this OFF. Getting 5s slowdown because of "unintentional touch" at the right corner and it is a lost race.

Indeed. And once MP replays work right (cough cough) time penalties can be assessed post-race. ... Or have one or more spectators in the game, as "officials" who jump around between cars in monitor mode, and call out drive-thru penalties or stop and go ... which CAN be simulated
If you enter the pits without calling a pit stop, you can cancel the pit stop menu and OUALLA! you have a "simulated" drive thru.
Similarly, if you request a pit stop, then cancel it (selecting a pre-made "do nothing" preset) as you turn into the pits ... OILLA! you have a "simulated" stop-and-go, cuz they'll release you right away.
... or perhaps I'm stating something everyone already does ;)

RomKnight
04-02-2016, 12:39
Championships kicked off.... Zolder, 2nd chicane. Someone hits me, I then through the chicane, I got the time penalty... This still pisses me off beyond comprehension. What a stupid idea. (yes, i'm repeating myself)

Liquid7394
04-02-2016, 12:52
I'd like an option to just remove the slowdown penalties.

AbeWoz
04-02-2016, 13:29
Can't you turn off penalties and flags from the settings menu? or are you saying you would like them to be separate switchable options, like flags on/off and penalties on/off?

Fractured Life
04-02-2016, 13:46
Slowdowns are just so stupid in leagues. You have 3 cars side by side fighting tooth and nail for a position over multiple laps. The lead changes 10 times in the first 20 laps. Then a backmarker you are coming up to lap accidentally cuts the track. He now has very little control and is also doing no speed. There is an accident about to happen.

This happens a lot and and so you lose drivers all the time. Add the indiscretions up and Drive Thru or stop and go for a certain level, and stop it with the stupid buses parked on track.

Liquid7394
04-02-2016, 14:23
Can't you turn off penalties and flags from the settings menu? or are you saying you would like them to be separate switchable options, like flags on/off and penalties on/off?
I'd like to be able to keep flags and penalties on but just remove the slowdown penalties. So if you cut the track X amount of times you're DQed but you won't get a slowdown penalty for cutting the track, basically the way it works in career.

AbeWoz
04-02-2016, 14:51
I'd like to be able to keep flags and penalties on but just remove the slowdown penalties. So if you cut the track X amount of times you're DQed but you won't get a slowdown penalty for cutting the track, basically the way it works in career.

ah i see what you mean. yes that would be much much better

sp3ctor
04-02-2016, 15:28
What I would really like to see is some more options for the penalty system so the host can adjust the settings according to his or her liking. This would need to at least include the option to set penalties off but keep flags on. It's kind of annoying that this is currently not possible.

So my suggestion/request would be to add a few more options in the race settings menu for enabling or disabling flags and penalties. Preferably this would include:

Flags: On or Off
Warnings (for cutting the track): On or Off
Five second penalties: On or Off
Drive through penalties (for false starts): On or Off

This is a pretty good solution actually.

The biggest problem with coding anything or making rules for anything is that you can't code or make rules for intentions. If I hit you in a chicane, it could be because I made an honest mistake or... I'm a bad driver... I missed my braking point... I'm forced into you... you hit me on the last corner or I might just be a jerk. How do you code for that? Similarly, if I go off the track trying to avoid you should I be penalized in the same way as a person who blatantly cuts a chicane?

Personally, I think the slow down penalties are not a good implementation of whatever rules are used because it isn't something one would see in an actual race. It wouldn't be safe and it potentially hurts racers behind the penalized car. There have been times when I've been in front of a race, gotten a penalty and been wrecked by other cars because I'm suddenly going much slower. I've even taken to flashing my lights like an idiot to try to warn people and avoid being wrecked. Similarly, I've been behind packs of cars and had to try to drive around their penalties (assuming I catch it quickly enough).

Although I'd rather see penalties turned into drive throughs or time added to a lap, I am not sure how this would work online because I've noticed - mostly because I spend a lot of time in last place - that so many people quit a race if they end up out of the top five or so. Last night I was driving a GT3 race that started with 20ish cars and by the end of five laps only had about eight. So if penalties add time, guys could get a ton of penalties screwing up the race and then just quit out.

wadafaka
04-02-2016, 16:20
I'd like to be able to keep flags and penalties on but just remove the slowdown penalties. So if you cut the track X amount of times you're DQed but you won't get a slowdown penalty for cutting the track, basically the way it works in career.+1 What he said

SUBGTRACER
04-02-2016, 22:14
We are all wasting our energy here :(

KAMPFBIBER81
16-02-2016, 14:50
I also would like to vote for a solution to disable cut track penalties. Would be nice if you could also control the behvior with the dedicated server. Especially for league racing, this would be a very welcomed feature.

Shadowoff
26-03-2016, 17:36
A short video from ONE race where I got disqualified because of useless penalties. Read describtion please!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDmGh991cgE&feature=youtu.be