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Joca63
06-07-2015, 00:52
Hi there, I have an honest question. I saw the leader lap in the Silverstone event posted in the other thread, and the fastest lap was done using a console version of the game. I use the PC version, and no way I can do some of the curves flat out the way he does in his lap, even with max downforce. Despite being slower than him, it seems that if this is true, I mean, we see a consolidating leaderboard, we face versions that have different behaviors which would turn this TT/Community events useless...Does anyone else know something about this, I mean, are those laps versions consolidated and not separated by platform? If this is true, it seems the console version has a very different behavior, not only on the grip side (I also did not see some of the bumps we have in the track in the PC version)...they just seemed too different. Thank you.

Ryzza5
06-07-2015, 02:13
There are probably differences in abilities with a gamepad or keyboard vs a steering wheel, but I do not believe there are any core differences between platforms, with regards to physics or tyre model. There are so-called 'aliens' in all sim-racing titles who really are unbelievably good, although this doesn't always translate well into real life motorsport.

The Events are setup with the same time of day, temperature, etc to make even more sure that everyone has the same chance.


Do you have any videos of your attempts that you can share?

iKasbian
06-07-2015, 08:37
There are times being done on the PC that are impossible to replicate on the Xbox, something is array and its more than just 'driver skill'.
Someone can put themselves over 5 seconds quicker than myself on PC and claim its been accomplished through experience/skill/tune alone... I've been decent at driving games/sims since PS1 days, top times on forza, over 200 unassisted #1's/Fm4, top 10's on GT etc and yet being 5 seconds off the pace on Pcars is OK? No, theres serious inconsistency's across hardware. I'm sure I'll get a barrage of abuse for making such a claim but I'm not stating no one 'may' be quicker than me, its the simply the scale.

sl0p3r
06-07-2015, 10:07
So if the times are comparable between platforms, so why aren't the leaderboards linked?
A linked leaderboard between all platforms would be really helpful to so the see the actual worth of the laptimes regarding to the Project CARS SMS-R Championship.

Is there a external leaderboard like that: http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard/event?event=31 for xbox and playstation?

choupolo
06-07-2015, 12:27
To my knowledge there is no external leaderboard for consoles, like there is for the PC. This is to do with restrictions out of SMS control I believe.


My opinion on the whole "this lap is impossible for me" debate is that, pCARS compared to any other racing sim I've played seems to be much more complex in terms of creating a level playing field. There are times on Xbox that PC players say is impossible, and now iKasabian says some PC times are impossible on Xbox.

I personally find playing on a gamepad "harder" than playing on a wheel. But then guys like GMDLONDON got the top time on PS4 using the pad recently.

And then there is car setup - which most of the time just goes beyond my comprehension and/or patience!

Which all leads people to believe that there may be perceived differences in the physics model between each individual or each platform - which I don't believe to be true.


It's the same in real life. Someone gets an unbelievably quick lap, and immediately there is a tendency to think he's playing the system or has something available that you don't. There are even more variables in reality.

In pCARS, the playing field is definitely not level because there are more variables than other games. As to how much of that affects your laptime is unknown, but certainly some of it is just down to having less skill - and rather than accusing the faster player of having an unfair advantage, it would be better just to congratulate him and find a way to do the same, whether it's through setup, better driving or whatever.

That said, if it doesn't come, then you don't have to feel as though you're rubbish, just keep trying. :D


PS. this applies to me more than anyone, hehe.

iKasbian
06-07-2015, 13:12
In pCARS, the playing field is definitely not level because there are more variables than other games. As to how much of that affects your laptime is unknown, but certainly some of it is just down to having less skill - and rather than accusing the faster player of having an unfair advantage, it would be better just to congratulate him and find a way to do the same, whether it's through setup, better driving or whatever.

That said, if it doesn't come, then you don't have to feel as though you're rubbish, just keep trying. :D


PS. this applies to me more than anyone, hehe.



No ones denying your first points, theres always going to be alien like drivers who 'just are' quicker, again, its the scale of what the quicker is.


All through Fm3/4/5 my times were well within the odd second or so of the top drivers, and I include names like 'Abs backone', 'Daveyskills', 'Nikrox' who proved themselves to be top drivers on multiply games/platforms, but now its perfectly reasonable to assume I'm 5 seconds (five) off someones pace? Its never happened before, why now?




Please don't try to put this to bed by saying 'try harder', that doesn't solve anything :)

ToOSk3tChY
06-07-2015, 13:24
To my knowledge there is no external leaderboard for consoles, like there is for the PC. This is to do with restrictions out of SMS control I believe.


My opinion on the whole "this lap is impossible for me" debate is that, pCARS compared to any other racing sim I've played seems to be much more complex in terms of creating a level playing field. There are times on Xbox that PC players say is impossible, and now iKasabian says some PC times are impossible on Xbox.

I personally find playing on a gamepad "harder" than playing on a wheel. But then guys like GMDLONDON got the top time on PS4 using the pad recently.

And then there is car setup - which most of the time just goes beyond my comprehension and/or patience!

Which all leads people to believe that there may be perceived differences in the physics model between each individual or each platform - which I don't believe to be true.


It's the same in real life. Someone gets an unbelievably quick lap, and immediately there is a tendency to think he's playing the system or has something available that you don't. There are even more variables in reality.

In pCARS, the playing field is definitely not level because there are more variables than other games. As to how much of that affects your laptime is unknown, but certainly some of it is just down to having less skill - and rather than accusing the faster player of having an unfair advantage, it would be better just to congratulate him and find a way to do the same, whether it's through setup, better driving or whatever.

That said, if it doesn't come, then you don't have to feel as though you're rubbish, just keep trying. :D


PS. this applies to me more than anyone, hehe.

This is where I was a month and a half ago with this argument.

Now, I personally think there's something else going on that we're not aware of.

EMW Simmo
06-07-2015, 13:48
I guarantee its got nothing to do with console/Pc/wheel/pad, its a new game and tuning is huge in Pcars, some tunes ive used from stock can be more than 5 secs faster on a 2 min lap...Also i know alot of people from Forza who were v fast n are way off the pace in Pcars n vice versa, its that simple...
Ive played on all 3 formats and was within 1 tenth on each.
Plus everycar is different n so there is no universal super tune, just time n effort well served.
:D Trust me its all in the tuning on Pcars, v good tyre temps alone can give u 1 sec...

ToOSk3tChY
06-07-2015, 15:03
Can you run the Escort Mk1 on Nur Stage 3 on both XB1 and PC with a stock tune and post times Simmo?

It would help me and Kas a lot

choupolo
06-07-2015, 15:25
No ones denying your first points, theres always going to be alien like drivers who 'just are' quicker, again, its the scale of what the quicker is.


All through Fm3/4/5 my times were well within the odd second or so of the top drivers, and I include names like 'Abs backone', 'Daveyskills', 'Nikrox' who proved themselves to be top drivers on multiply games/platforms, but now its perfectly reasonable to assume I'm 5 seconds (five) off someones pace? Its never happened before, why now?




Please don't try to put this to bed by saying 'try harder', that doesn't solve anything :)


This is where I was a month and a half ago with this argument.

Now, I personally think there's something else going on that we're not aware of.

I'm just saying that at some point there's always a temptation to give racing driver excuses first rather than admit the other guy might just be better. It applies to me too - it's a racing driver ego thing.

I agree, setup makes a bigger difference in pCARS than any other game I've played - but it only serves to mask the fraction of those 5 seconds that might be just down to driving a particular corner less than optimum. No-one is perfect.

Ok, it doesn't solve the problem of finding the rest of those 5 seconds, but I wanted to point out the attitude of many, including myself, that often leads to seeing problems when they are not there e.g. differences in physics between platforms.

iKasbian
06-07-2015, 15:39
I'm just saying that at some point there's always a temptation to give racing driver excuses first rather than admit the other guy might just be better. It applies to me too - it's a racing driver ego thing.

I agree, setup makes a bigger difference in pCARS than any other game I've played - but it only serves to mask the fraction of those 5 seconds that might be just down to driving a particular corner less than optimum. No-one is perfect.

Ok, it doesn't solve the problem of finding the rest of those 5 seconds, but I wanted to point out the attitude of many, including myself, that often leads to seeing problems when they are not there e.g. differences in physics between platforms.


Sure, me and sketch just want a level playing field so we can put on some fair comps

We've watched the replay of the guy going 3 seconds quicker (he could go 2 quicker than that) and his car is seemingly sliding wildly (compared to mine) and yet he's maintaining alot more speed into and out of the corners? His tune is basically default, when I used default tune (right at the start) I was down in the 3:22's :confused:

choupolo
06-07-2015, 15:51
Sure, me and sketch just want a level playing field so we can put on some fair comps

We've watched the replay of the guy going 3 seconds quicker (he could go 2 quicker than that) and his car is seemingly sliding wildly (compared to mine) and yet he's maintaining alot more speed into and out of the corners? His tune is basically default, when I used default tune (right at the start) I was down in the 3:22's :confused:

Well, yeah see this is what made me make the point in the first place.

See some guys will post a video saying that they can't possibly find that last second compared to the guy on the other platform, and that it must be setup or platform differences, yet the video is proof that there is time left to find just by being smoother and more accurate, or by taking a slower line in rather than the balls to the wall one.

Not saying that it's as easy as that, and I understand why my opinion is not popular!

EMW Simmo
06-07-2015, 16:03
Can you run the Escort Mk1 on Nur Stage 3 on both XB1 and PC with a stock tune and post times Simmo?

It would help me and Kas a lot

I can give it ago, depends if you use a wheel aswell or pad, because that escort is alot faster with a wheel, you can just carry so much more speed, the pad just scrubs the tyres, in slower cars this is x10 on P cars...
Ive run the clio on my brothers Pc , compared too pad on xbox 1 i was at least 6 tenths slower on a 1m track on xbox.
So it could be PC just runs faster than the xbox, but saying that 16 out of the top 20 were xbox users 3 PC n 1 PS4 in a previous comp..
You will have to try another car lol, but wait until after patch 2.0...

iKasbian
06-07-2015, 16:05
Well, yeah see this is what made me make the point in the first place.

See some guys will post a video saying that they can't possibly find that last second compared to the guy on the other platform, and that it must be setup or platform differences, yet the video is proof that there is time left to find just by being smoother and more accurate, or by taking a slower line in rather than the balls to the wall one.

Not saying that it's as easy as that, and I understand why my opinion is not popular!

NEver said I couldn't go quicker, I'm telling you I couldn't go 5 seconds quicker (or anyone else on xbox with a controller). Please feel free to prove me wrong :)

choupolo
06-07-2015, 16:07
Might just be a wheel vs pad thing then on xbox? I certainly notice managing tyres and being smooth is harder with a thumbstick, and makes a difference to grip over a lap.

@iKasabian - are you on a pad or a wheel. I just find it funny that the PC guys are saying the Xbox is faster and the Xbox guys are saying the PC is faster. imo those 5 seconds are mostly in the setup, or wheel vs pad tyre management as Simmo said.

iKasbian
06-07-2015, 16:08
Thanks guys, maybe we're getting somewhere now and I've jumped to the PC/console conclusion wrongly.

No disrespect to anyone.

EMW Simmo
06-07-2015, 16:14
NEver said I couldn't go quicker, I'm telling you I couldn't go 5 seconds quicker (or anyone else on xbox with a controller). Please feel free to prove me wrong :)
Only way we can find out is by testing a few more cars on different tracks, or is there a way too view and compare the Top times accross the 3 platforms....

iKasbian
06-07-2015, 16:14
Might just be a wheel vs pad thing then on xbox? I certainly notice managing tyres and being smooth is harder with a thumbstick, and makes a difference to grip over a lap.

@iKasabian - are you on a pad or a wheel. I just find it funny that the PC guys are saying the Xbox is faster and the Xbox guys are saying the PC is faster. imo those 5 seconds are mostly in the setup, or wheel vs pad tyre management as Simmo said.



I'm on pad (sadly)

Its still alittle weird as there was some fast PRT guys on wheel who couldn't get near his time either, or maybe they didn't put so much into their runs? Don't know.


Only way we can find out is by testing a few more cars on different tracks, or is there a way too view and compare the Top times accross the 3 platforms....


Needs to be looked into. Thanks for your help for now mate.

EMW Simmo
06-07-2015, 16:19
Some cars are really bad on a pad/overheat there tyres by scrubbing constantly or just v twitchy, usually the slower cars/road.
But from what ive seen on a few tracks and comps it is the xbox thats faster so far.

DUST2DEATH
08-07-2015, 03:39
dont forget hardware choices on the PC side.

Some people may be running with direct drive wheels, triples, or even VR.

Using a correct FOV for the screen size, distance you sit from etc will help achieve a correct scale within the game of the environment relative to the car which will allow for more accurate placement as you go around the track.

FACT0RY PIL0T
08-07-2015, 11:06
Ill throw somethin in here, soooo I tested a pad users exact number 3 on the leaderboard time at Laguna with my wheel. The car had absolutley no rear grip under breaking acceleration and I just flew off the track here and there swapping ends , and the only thing he uses is traction control because of an injury to his finger.

To drive the setup to within .500 of his time I had to turn on abs traction, and move the brake ballance 4 clicks more forward, and add 3 more clicks front an rear downforce plus change the gearing.

Basically I came to the conclusion after hours of testing the pad had a tiny more front grip, and the rear had a LOT more.

V12 GForce1
12-07-2015, 21:22
Is it actually faster to use a pad then ??

ToOSk3tChY
14-07-2015, 07:49
No. That's not a propa test.

Tune might be aimed at pad
Guy on pad may be a quicker driver
Wheel user might not have settings dialled in as much as controlled guy has his
The on controller might have spend WAY longer trying to set his time

There's enough proof out there already that says if the wheel is used properly the. It is quicker. You just don't get as much front tyre scrub and you can be more smooth. It's more prevalent in this game than it was in let's say, forza.

choupolo
14-07-2015, 12:39
With the right pad settings and enough skill it is possible to compete at the top of leaderboards. But getting those settings is such trial and error and depends on track, car and personal preference too. So you can go from top 10 in one situation to sub-100 in another with the same amount of effort.

Just one example - adjusting the speed sensitivity can really make a difference to pad users. Setting it higher helps with smoother steering into fast corners and reduces tyre scrub, but also limits steering lock. So theoretically you have to adjust this per car and per track so that the turning arc is just right for the most important fast corners.

That said, it only takes a quick look at the leaderboards to realise that most top 10 times are dominated by wheel users (at least on PS4) - suggesting that it is generally harder for pad users for whatever reason.

The main thing I find hard with the pad is fine steering control. E.g. into the chicanes at Oulton Park, the first turn in needs to be very smooth and precise to hit your marks decelerating at speed, but then you need quick steering to jink in the opposite direction for the exit apex. So ideally you need slow precise steering settings for the turn in and then faster steering for the exit. But there can't be a setting for that, only very fine thumbstick control will do.

bubbadabutcher
19-07-2015, 12:17
There are times being done on the PC that are impossible to replicate on the Xbox, something is array and its more than just 'driver skill'.
Someone can put themselves over 5 seconds quicker than myself on PC and claim its been accomplished through experience/skill/tune alone... I've been decent at driving games/sims since PS1 days, top times on forza, over 200 unassisted #1's/Fm4, top 10's on GT etc and yet being 5 seconds off the pace on Pcars is OK? No, theres serious inconsistency's across hardware. I'm sure I'll get a barrage of abuse for making such a claim but I'm not stating no one 'may' be quicker than me, its the simply the scale.

Over 200 #1s in forza and you're 5 seconds off the pace in project cars? Come on now, there must be some hyperbole happening somewhere there.

Xbox1 times seem faster than pc on every lb I've checked. I doubt its due to hardware so much as it is serious player, and especially hotlapper, numbers per platform.

Hah I really need to get in the habit of checking thread start dates.

iKasbian
19-07-2015, 13:52
Over 200 #1s in forza and you're 5 seconds off the pace in project cars? Come on now, there must be some hyperbole happening somewhere there.

Xbox1 times seem faster than pc on every lb I've checked. I doubt its due to hardware so much as it is serious player, and especially hotlapper, numbers per platform.



If you read back through the thread you will see a possible explanation, this is from a top xbox hotlapper :-

"that escort is alot faster with a wheel, you can just carry so much more speed, the pad just scrubs the tyres, in slower cars this is x10 on P cars...
Ive run the clio on my brothers Pc , compared too pad on xbox 1 i was at least 6 tenths slower on a 1m track on xbox."


In the latest TT I'm within a second of the pc users time (like for like assists).


"I doubt its due to hardware so much as it is serious player"


Ok, Babba, why don't you 'prove' just how UN'serious' me and my time was by taking a few seconds off it? Its currently the quickest Mk1 Escort time on the track, 3:17'596, may keep you busy for 3 or 4 mins...

iKasbian
24-11-2015, 17:49
I can give it ago, depends if you use a wheel aswell or pad, because that escort is alot faster with a wheel, you can just carry so much more speed, the pad just scrubs the tyres, in slower cars this is x10 on P cars...
Ive run the clio on my brothers Pc , compared too pad on xbox 1 i was at least 6 tenths slower on a 1m track on xbox.
So it could be PC just runs faster than the xbox, but saying that 16 out of the top 20 were xbox users 3 PC n 1 PS4 in a previous comp..
You will have to try another car lol, but wait until after patch 2.0...

Like simmo here I'm convinced there's differences across platforms. Of course there's always going to be....users like the guy in my sig and Bubba who are happier to boo hoo it ... easily done :rolleyes:


Hot lapping is practically dead on pcars now anyway, fast guys hAve gone over to fm where hotlapping is supported