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Martini Da Gasalini
07-07-2015, 22:46
This is what some of us knew since day one with Destiny, and finally someone breaks it down.

please SMS don't become Bungie.


Destiny: The Hardcore Gamer's Slot Machine
https://youtu.be/g79dWuqXe5o

TheReaper GT
07-07-2015, 22:53
i'm not sure here. But what exactly you want for free and why SMS should give you that for free?

Martini Da Gasalini
07-07-2015, 22:58
It's not about the "free" I actually paid for the SMS DLCs had for PCars, I've yet to buy a DLC for Destiny.

I don't think you see the overall aspect of what that vid is explaining.

OperatorWay
07-07-2015, 23:01
http://imgflip.com/s/meme/Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg

TheReaper GT
07-07-2015, 23:10
OK, first of all, sorry, I've just saw the end of the video, since every time I click on your link the video just starts at the end. I've watched the whole video now. What you're are asking is for SMS to not release a ridiculous amount o overpriced DLC's in short period, is it?

Neil Hopwood
07-07-2015, 23:17
OK, first of all, sorry, I've just saw the end of the video, since every time I click on your link the video just starts at the end. I've watched the whole video now. What you're are asking is for SMS to not release a ridiculous amount o overpriced DLC's in short period, is it?

And this is why people should add a description to the linked video.

flymar
07-07-2015, 23:31
to not release a ridiculous amount o overpriced DLC's in short period, is it? That stops me to play in any train games. All they do is 5 tracks (or less) and few engines at release and then come huge numbers of not cheap DLCs. And that's why I stopped playing FSX.

TheReaper GT
07-07-2015, 23:34
That stops me to play in any train games. All they do is 5 tracks (or less) and few engines at release and then come huge numbers of not cheap DLCs. And that's why I stopped playing FSX.

Me too, all DLC's are too expensive those days, and with little value for the money. But I don't think we are at risk here. If SMS DLCs maintain the quality and price of Racing Icons, I'll buy them all

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 15:36
OK, first of all, sorry, I've just saw the end of the video, since every time I click on your link the video just starts at the end. I've watched the whole video now. What you're are asking is for SMS to not release a ridiculous amount o overpriced DLC's in short period, is it?

Sorry about that, fixed the link to start at the beginning .

and to answer your question is yes but that only covers a small aspect of what Bungie is doing to their fan base.

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 15:38
And this is why people should add a description to the linked video.

Done

xautos
08-07-2015, 15:47
Me too, all DLC's are too expensive those days, and with little value for the money. But I don't think we are at risk here. If SMS DLCs maintain the quality and price of Racing Icons, I'll buy them all

i wanted to buy all the mass effect dlcs from their social store, but half of whole lot of them cost the same as all three games themselves!
swtor has expansions on their mmo game the last few years, you needed to put money into those, plus any subscription costs in order to get proper access to them.
both EA products.

but when i look at the costs for the DLC's for this game, its fairly cheap.

TheReaper GT
08-07-2015, 15:50
Sorry about that, fixed the link to start at the begging.


and to answer your question is yes but that only covers a small aspect of what Bungie is doing to their fan base.

Yeah, I have friends that play Destiny, they are addicted to the game but not near happy with that situation. Bungie is pushing and some people will not put up with it for long.
As I've said before, I don't think we are at risk with SMS.


Me too, all DLC's are too expensive those days, and with little value for the money. But I don't think we are at risk here. If SMS DLCs maintain the quality and price of Racing Icons, I'll buy them all

I don't know if you are a battlefield fan but for me they are doing things right over there. Great prices, premium members get a lot for the buck and now with CTE the community is even happier.

BDR Daz
08-07-2015, 15:59
Watching the video, it cements how much Destiny players are being abused, when talking to a friend about the new DLC I pointed out he would be effectively buying the game again to get all the DLC


ORIGINAL STORY 22/6/15 7.25pm: Bungie has defended the full-fat 40 price tag of Destiny's upcoming major expansion The Taken King, as well as the fact that fans will have to repurchase the base game and its existing two add-ons to access exclusive content in The Taken King's Collector's Edition.

His response was ... but its worth it ...

With regards to the Racing Genre and DLC, I dont think it follows the practices in that Video, certainly Project Cars does not, there is no need to "grind" on Cars, everything is unlocked, there is no need to look for the "next unlock" ...

On point of SMS and the DLC, we have already seen the Pricing structure with the Racing Icons pack, we have a decent amount of cars already, SMS are just bolstering that ...

Now other Developers on the other hand have done the "Withholding of Content" to make it DLC and make more money

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 16:08
Watching the video, it cements how much Destiny players are being abused, when talking to a friend about the new DLC I pointed out he would be effectively buying the game again to get all the DLC

Exactly




His response was ... but its worth it ...

He's obviously not an informed consumer and is being taken advantage of and doesn't realize it or doesn't care?


With regards to the Racing Genre and DLC, I dont think it follows the practices in that Video, certainly Project Cars does not, there is no need to "grind" on Cars, everything is unlocked, there is no need to look for the "next unlock" ...

On point of SMS and the DLC, we have already seen the Pricing structure with the Racing Icons pack, we have a decent amount of cars already, SMS are just bolstering that ...

Now other Developers on the other hand have done the "Withholding of Content" to make it DLC and make more money

Absolutely agree, again I've bought the DLCs for PCars, I love the game, has it' quirks but you can see SMS is doing their job to fix things, Bungie purposely chopped and locked things up on top of having a very broken game to boot, most likely a decision from Activision, and you can see where this slot machine them comes into play, but in the end I'm the one with the $ in my hand and I have yet to buy and will not buy anything Destiny related, DLC, part 2, I'm done with this kind of practice where the players/fans are being gauged.

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 16:13
Yeah, I have friends that play Destiny, they are addicted to the game but not near happy with that situation. Bungie is pushing and some people will not put up with it for long.
As I've said before, I don't think we are at risk with SMS.

Oh I'm done with Destiny, I'm eagerly anticipating Star Wars Battefront, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege and Division.

Screw Destiny.

BDR Daz
08-07-2015, 16:13
He's obviously not an informed consumer and is being taken advantage of and doesn't realize it or doesn't care?


On the contrary, he is one of the most switched on people I know, I sent him the link and he wrote back "ill still be buying it... its worth it, its Destiny !!"

We can see things are being withheld to be put out as DLC Forza is a great example of that, how quick some of the content has come out in the past after the game has shipped leads you to question, is it on disk DLC

I forgot to add into my original post, we are racing fans have the "Grind" but it is a different type, our grind is to get better and to get to number one (be it on the boards or in the race)

In regards to what we are getting from SMS in DLC form, I am happy with how it is going, tbh I would be happy at 4.99 per pack because we are getting value for money, the cars are all pretty usable and competitive ...

TheReaper GT
08-07-2015, 16:17
Oh I'm done with Destiny, I'm eagerly anticipating Star Wars Battefront, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege and Division.

Screw Destiny.

I'm on the same wait as you. If battlefront goes in the same path of BF4, we'll be happy.Tom Clancy is gonna bankrupt me, The Division, Siege and Ghost Recoon, God have mercy on my soul auhhua

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 16:48
I'm on the same wait as you. If battlefront goes in the same path of BF4, we'll be happy.Tom Clancy is gonna bankrupt me, The Division, Siege and Ghost Recoon, God have mercy on my soul auhhua


BUT the thing is, I was a BF4 day one guy, not sure if you where but MAN what a disaster with EA and Dice, and the thing is I swore never to buy another EA product due to what they've turned into, but I had read so many good things about the BF series i said WTH, I regretted it from day one with the super broken game they rushed. Do you know what I'm referring to?

TheReaper GT
08-07-2015, 16:55
BUT the thing is, I was a BF4 day one guy, not sure if you where but MAN what a disaster with EA and Dice, and the thing is I swore never to buy another EA product due to what they've turned into, but I had read so many good things about the BF series i said WTH, I regretted it from day one with the super broken game they rushed. Do you know what I'm referring to?

Yeah, it was a big pile of shit back there. I remember that I even removed BF4 from my steam account and turn to BF3. I think Dice did a awesome job sorting things out and giving players new content like new guns and maps. On CTE we are testing even maps without textures, just to make positional adjusts. They even made polls to ask what players want in a Community map. It's pretty awesome. That said, I don't think EA has nothing to do with it, EA always let me down and I don't expect that to change soon. Dice in the other hand will have my money every single time.

xautos
08-07-2015, 16:55
BUT the thing is, I was a BF4 day one guy, not sure if you where but MAN what a disaster with EA and Dice, and the thing is I swore never to buy another EA product due to what they've turned into, but I had read so many good things about the BF series i said WTH, I regretted it from day one with the super broken game they rushed. Do you know what I'm referring to?

i still play bf2. it was one of their finest products they ever produced. im using the sp64 mod to get 100 AI's per match 50 ais one side 49 the other side including myself. make sure their skill is set accordingly, its like i never left the multiplayer realm. but i tell you, there are no shortage of targets to fire at even if you miss your mark.

Awong124
08-07-2015, 17:02
I got all the VoG raid weapons and armor, and pre-DLC exotic weapons and stopped playing. The game was fun at first and while playing with friends, but after a while it just got really repetitive. For me it was just an urge to collect stuff.

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 17:09
Yeah, it was a big pile of shit back there. I remember that I even removed BF4 from my steam account and turn to BF3. I think Dice did a awesome job sorting things out and giving players new content like new guns and maps. On CTE we are testing even maps without textures, just to make positional adjusts. They even made polls to ask what players want in a Community map. It's pretty awesome. That said, I don't think EA has nothing to do with it, EA always let me down and I don't expect that to change soon. Dice in the other hand will have my money every single time.

Well I guess that is good news, because Battlefront is Dice and based on the same BF engine, I did like BF4 for for the little moment that I did play it, I might have to revisit it since Screw Destiny lolol.

TheReaper GT
08-07-2015, 17:11
Well I guess that is good news, because Battlefront is Dice and based on the same BF engine, I did like BF4 for for the little moment that I did play it, I might have to revisit it since Screw Destiny lolol.

Golmud Railway at night is just GORGEOUS. I'll post some screens for you later.

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 17:16
I got all the VoG raid weapons and armor, and pre-DLC exotic weapons and stopped playing. The game was fun at first and while playing with friends, but after a while it just got really repetitive. For me it was just an urge to collect stuff.


That's how I felt even before the DLC's hit. I was really more interested in the game originally because the story seemed like it was going to be something awesome, then the writer quit, and now we're left with such an empty formal shadow of itself story wise, I ended up just playing Crucible, I didn't even care to create the Warlock and Hunter, so disappointing. BUT great new games coming soon :)

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 17:17
Golmud Railway at night is just GORGEOUS. I'll post some screens for you later.

Cool.

FoxMulder
08-07-2015, 17:21
I got all the VoG raid weapons and armor, and pre-DLC exotic weapons and stopped playing. The game was fun at first and while playing with friends, but after a while it just got really repetitive. For me it was just an urge to collect stuff.

Yep, I played Destiny for about 6 months straight every day for a couple of hours until I eventually burnt out and I didn't even touch PvP, the group I was playing with is still on the grind.
Sadly I'm already away from pCARS, guess I'm not as much of a car nut as I thought I was. Partially I'd blame the bugs and the wreckfest online mp though.

However, I don't really see a difference in the way DLC is delivered here. In Destiny you get a Season Pass including two expansions, tons of new gear, higher levels, raids, missions etc. for 30EUR. The new Expansion is supposed to double the content of the base game.
If you add all smaller pCARS DLC to a cumulated price of 30EUR you'll get maybe around 20 cars and 20 tracks. Just splitting it up in smaller chunks doesn't make a difference to me.

Awong124
08-07-2015, 17:28
I wasn't even interested in Destiny to be honest. My friend made me get it to play with him. But he ended up quitting very soon, and only got up to level 24. But by then I've already committed myself to collecting the stuff, so I played my 3 characters everyday for months. Looking back on it, about 350 of the roughly 400 hours I spent on Destiny was a giant waste of time. I pretty much never played PvP either.

FoxMulder
08-07-2015, 17:33
Did a quick check I played 792hours across all 3 chars. Damn.

Ryno917
08-07-2015, 18:24
He's obviously not an informed consumer and is being taken advantage of and doesn't realize it or doesn't care?

No, he just has a different perception of value than you. I've bought all DLCs for Destiny, and while I find them to be on the pricey side of things, I've decided that they were worth buying because I like the game and enjoy playing it, and I'd like to keep going with new content. I'm in the camp that feels buying the new collector's edition to be ludicrous for an existing player, though - but that's obvious, it's a pack designed for new players. The only 'exclusive' stuff it has, in terms of the game itself, is some emblems and a shader. For me, that's not worth spending $80 on. For some people, it is. That's for them to decide, though.


Absolutely agree, again I've bought the DLCs for PCars, I love the game, has it' quirks but you can see SMS is doing their job to fix things, Bungie purposely chopped and locked things up on top of having a very broken game to boot, most likely a decision from Activision, and you can see where this slot machine them comes into play, but in the end I'm the one with the $ in my hand and I have yet to buy and will not buy anything Destiny related, DLC, part 2, I'm done with this kind of practice where the players/fans are being gauged.

Bungie didn't purposely chop anything off. Absolutely none of the DLC was finished at release. Period. Anyone who says differently is talking out of their ass. Bungie had provisions in place for DLC that was planned before release - and work had begun on DLC stuff - but they did not chop anything out. That is standard practice for developing DLC by every single video game developer. All those areas that people glitched into were unfinished. Game development is complicated and takes a long time. If you honestly expect Bungie to not plan DLC, not add provisions for its integration into the game, and not start working on it before release and still get DLC out to the public a few months after the game goes live then you have no idea how game development (or any development, for that matter) works. (Note this is not directed at you individually, but in general to people who complain about this kind of stuff).

People are making so much more out of the situation than it is. Yes, Destiny DLC is "expensive" relative to the content in the base game. I agree. But there's nothing sinister about the approach to DLC, and Bungie owes absolutely nothing to anyone in that regard. The game that shipped was a complete game, the DLC isn't needed to make it a full game. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the approach they're taking - even in the pricing, because it's up to them and if you don't want to buy it, no one is forcing you to. Clearly people think it's worth it, because it's being purchased. Full stop. End of story.


Oh I'm done with Destiny, I'm eagerly anticipating Star Wars Battefront, Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege and Division.

Screw Destiny.

Battlefront has already been a let-down for me. A whole host of things are missing from it that defined the original Battlefront series. As is, it's just COD set in the Star Wars universe. Yawn. I haven't looked at the Rainbow Six stuff at all, though. It might be ok.

I'm going to stick with Destiny. I like it, I enjoy it, and it has the best FPS gameplay of any title I've ever played. Despite its shortcomings, it's still by far my favorite current FPS game.


However, I don't really see a difference in the way DLC is delivered here. In Destiny you get a Season Pass including two expansions, tons of new gear, higher levels, raids, missions etc. for 30EUR. The new Expansion is supposed to double the content of the base game.
If you add all smaller pCARS DLC to a cumulated price of 30EUR you'll get maybe around 20 cars and 20 tracks. Just splitting it up in smaller chunks doesn't make a difference to me.

Exactly. All the negativity Destiny is getting is because people a) don't understand the situation, b) had expectations that no game could ever live up to, and c) are spiteful (There are FAR, FAR worse games out there with higher scores than Destiny, and you all bloody well know it).

TheReaper GT
08-07-2015, 18:29
Did a quick check I played 792hours across all 3 chars. Damn.

Games can suck us into them. It's pretty awesome when all that time can translate in fun. In my case it did. I love play battlefield 4 with my friends, have a laugh and blow shit up. :D

211166

Here the screens from the Comunity Test Enviroment

211167211168211169211170

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 21:25
Bungie didn't purposely chop anything off. Absolutely none of the DLC was finished at release. Period. Anyone who says differently is talking out of their ass. Bungie had provisions in place for DLC that was planned before release - and work had begun on DLC stuff - but they did not chop anything out. That is standard practice for developing DLC by every single video game developer. All those areas that people glitched into were unfinished. Game development is complicated and takes a long time. If you honestly expect Bungie to not plan DLC, not add provisions for its integration into the game, and not start working on it before release and still get DLC out to the public a few months after the game goes live then you have no idea how game development (or any development, for that matter) works. (Note this is not directed at you individually, but in general to people who complain about this kind of stuff).

Ummm yeah they did, that "DLC" you speak of, was content that should and could've been in the game to begin with, And I'm sure Activision had something to do with this as they've also done with COD which is now where it is and detested by many people after what it originally was.

To sum it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ5BpeHVTWY

Also did you read the interview article of Eurogamer did with Luke Smith?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlgpDbGl39Q

Lono which is the guy doing the Youtube vid here is also a Day one Destiny player like I was going to far back as Beta put it perfectly as well.




People are making so much more out of the situation than it is. Yes, Destiny DLC is "expensive" relative to the content in the base game. I agree. But there's nothing sinister about the approach to DLC, and Bungie owes absolutely nothing to anyone in that regard. The game that shipped was a complete game, the DLC isn't needed to make it a full game. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the approach they're taking - even in the pricing, because it's up to them and if you don't want to buy it, no one is forcing you to. Clearly people think it's worth it, because it's being purchased. Full stop. End of story.

People are making a fuss because Destiny was/is a broken game with a shit story(which was one of the biggest selling points based on the BS that Bungie presold) before they chopped shit up, Bungie/Activision is pissing on you and calling it rain, and you're standing there enjoying your golden shower.




Battlefront has already been a let-down for me. A whole host of things are missing from it that defined the original Battlefront series. As is, it's just COD set in the Star Wars universe. Yawn.

Possibly, that's why I'm anticipating, but not necessarily, jumping out to go get it 12AM on Nov 17th, I'll make my choice based on the research I do on it as things come out, unlike what I did with Destiny.



I'm going to stick with Destiny. I like it, I enjoy it, and it has the best FPS gameplay of any title I've ever played. Despite its shortcomings, it's still by far my favorite current FPS game.

Hey that's your prerogative, it's your money, you are entitled to throw money at overpriced mediocrity
as I said I'm done with that shit and Actibungie.

MrFlibble81
08-07-2015, 21:39
I have Destiny and I played it for a couple of weeks, ultimately thought it was a bit shit with hugely over priced DLC. I only got it cuz it came free with my PS4 and I only got that bundle because I wanted the pretty white PS4! lol.

I have no regrets...

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 22:04
I have Destiny and I played it for a couple of weeks, ultimately thought it was a bit shit with hugely over priced DLC. I only got it cuz it came free with my PS4 and I only got that bundle because I wanted the pretty white PS4! lol.

I have no regrets...


I really wanted Destiny to be A+1, and be successful but sadly the evil tenticles of Activision have ruined it and the rep of Bungie.

TheReaper GT
08-07-2015, 22:06
I really wanted Destiny to be A+1, and be successful but sadly the evil tenticles of Activision have ruined it and the rep of Bungie.

What you talking about activision? they gave us pink ak47 skins on call of duty, very tactical uhauhahu

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 22:27
What you talking about activision? they gave us pink ak47 skins on call of duty, very tactical uhauhahu

hahahaha.

INDEED.

321Respawn
08-07-2015, 23:01
Only problem I have with dlc is when you are forced to buy it to remain competitive against other players or don't buy it and always lose .When TDU2 released the Veyron Grand Sport multiplayer became a joke because that thing just ran over everything in its path .
At least with SMS they have remained balanced in what is released and no car in it's class has a clear advantage over the others .
I will buy car DLC if it is a car or cars that I want to drive I have no problem with that .
Even tracks aren't a big issue you can take it or leave it .If the host loads up a track you don't have you can just join another lobby so it's not really going to ruin your day .
I think we will be just fine with the way SMS is doing things .

BDR Daz
08-07-2015, 23:02
Only problem I have with dlc is when you are forced to buy it to remain competitive against other players or don't buy it and always lose .

Just like Turn 10 with the Mazda 787B locked into the VIP pack

TheReaper GT
08-07-2015, 23:06
Only problem I have with dlc is when you are forced to buy it to remain competitive against other players or don't buy it and always lose .When TDU2 released the Veyron Grand Sport multiplayer became a joke because that thing just ran over everything in its path .
At least with SMS they have remained balanced in what is released and no car in it's class has a clear advantage over the others .
I will buy car DLC if it is a car or cars that I want to drive I have no problem with that .
Even tracks aren't a big issue you can take it or leave it .If the host loads up a track you don't have you can just join another lobby so it's not really going to ruin your day .
I think we will be just fine with the way SMS is doing things .

That's a thing that I found awesome on the current SMS dlcs. Right now, if you don't have the car pack and someone force one of those cars in the lobby, you will play with the car. It's awesome for people who don't have the DLC but are playing with friends that have. I hope the tracks dlcs will be the same.

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 23:07
Only problem I have with dlc is when you are forced to buy it to remain competitive against other players or don't buy it and always lose .When TDU2 released the Veyron Grand Sport multiplayer became a joke because that thing just ran over everything in its path .
At least with SMS they have remained balanced in what is released and no car in it's class has a clear advantage over the others .
I will buy car DLC if it is a car or cars that I want to drive I have no problem with that .
Even tracks aren't a big issue you can take it or leave it .If the host loads up a track you don't have you can just join another lobby so it's not really going to ruin your day .
I think we will be just fine with the way SMS is doing things .

Exactly, which in a reverse weird sort of way is why I did buy the SMS DLC because it was something worth supporting as a consumer and fan.

Bungie knew exactly what they where doing and are milking people, I saw that with the first DCL and I was like uhh uh.
Activibungie keeps bait hanging just in front of the fishes, and they keep getting plenty of bite.

Martini Da Gasalini
08-07-2015, 23:09
That's a thing that I found awesome on the current SMS dlcs. Right now, if you don't have the car pack and someone force one of those cars in the lobby, you will play with the car. It's awesome for people who don't have the DLC but are playing with friends that have. I hope the tracks dlcs will be the same.


IKR!

bravo to SMS for doing this.

Ryno917
09-07-2015, 00:19
Ummm yeah they did, that "DLC" you speak of, was content that should and could've been in the game to begin with

DLC always could have been in the game to begin with. That's not an argument. The point is that the game was a full game without the DLC, the DLC did not complete the game. The DLC was not necessary to continue playing the game. The DLC was an add-on, and an extra. The story was still shit with the DLC, so that's not an argument either. The game, when released, was a full game. It may not have lived up to the hype, but nothing ever does.

To sum it up, Bungie did absolutely nothing wrong with regards to the DLC. Destiny has some shortcomings, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that the game was a full game upon release. The game worked (mostly. Some bugs are in everything, and Destiny worked just fine for most of the userbase), the game wasn't missing anything integral to it. The DLC wasn't finished upon the initial release. Where is the problem with this?

Sure, Destiny could have had much better story telling. But that doesn't mean it's not a full game.




And I did read that interview, and the guy definitely across as a twat. There's no denying that. Still doesn't change the fact that the game was a full game when it was released, and all the DLC stuff is just people blowing hot air. Calling them crooks and whatever else is just acting entitled.

wraithsrike
09-07-2015, 06:58
Only just started playing BF4 on the EA scheme and I'm loving it, don't know about any bugs I've not encountered any yet and as it's the first person shooter I've played Im really having a blast, and will probably buy all the add on Missons as well now as I didn't think they were too expensive considering they add to the size of the game and will extend my game play.

TheReaper GT
09-07-2015, 07:00
Only just started playing BF4 on the EA scheme and I'm loving it, don't know about any bugs I've not encountered any yet and as it's the first person shooter I've played Im really having a blast, and will probably buy all the add on Missons as well now as I didn't think they were too expensive considering they add to the size of the game and will extend my game play.

Buy a Premium membership,you will get all DLC's with it.

Add me so we can play together bro.

wraithsrike
09-07-2015, 10:46
Buy a Premium membership,you will get all DLC's with it.

Add me so we can play together bro.

How do I buy Premium buddy?

KK78
09-07-2015, 12:40
At some point, probably off in the distant future most gamers will drop the naive 'entitled' perception of games (usually games they don't actually play) and realise one or more of the following points;

Making and publishing games is expensive, very very expensive often in a market that is uber-competitive so measures to fulfill investment and make profit are needed because gaming is a business.
The proliferation of used games has put a major dent in the financial success of many many games and thus measures to increase revenue by other sources (DLC, season passes etc...) is not evil it's common sense
If person A buys game B 2nd hand and the developer/publisher gets nothing from that sale how long do you think the games market would last? Would you run a business where 10,20,30 or 50+% of the product you make makes you 0 return?
What should and should not have been in the game at launch is entirely subjective, aside from obvious cases like when Capcom paywalled characters in Streetfighter which were PROVEN to be on the disc most other cases of gamers whingeing 'it should have been in the game' are effectively passing off their thoughts as fact- it's not fact
Consider that retail has a huge part to play in the supposed excessive pricing models for games, wonder why digital games are often the same price as the boxed version? Look at the powerful retailers who drive this and retailer exclusive crap for answers- yes those very same retailers that you buy games from 2nd hand (where the game makers get zero return)
Remember, if you are that old, when games came with just single player, one character and maybe a difficulty option. Now recall what cost those games were, yep, more or less the same as they are today but do they last as long, don't you crave more content?


Add all this up and include the fact you, the consumer, have a choice and hopefully those who cast aspirations of 'evil' and 'greedy' upon publishers/developers may realise how stupid and childish they look.

In short Destiny sold millions of copies, thus as a business they have every right to do what they like, if they lose consumers so be it but guess what they probably won't because the greatest antidote to all the flag waving of the modern self righteous gamer is the fact that most still buy the content in the end anyway.

@Wraithsrike- from the EA/XBL store mate

TheReaper GT
09-07-2015, 14:17
How do I buy Premium buddy?

Inside the game there's a store. You can buy there or in the xbox store.

Martini Da Gasalini
09-07-2015, 16:59
At some point, probably off in the distant future most gamers will drop the naive 'entitled' perception of games (usually games they don't actually play) and realise one or more of the following points;

Making and publishing games is expensive, very very expensive often in a market that is uber-competitive so measures to fulfill investment and make profit are needed because gaming is a business.
The proliferation of used games has put a major dent in the financial success of many many games and thus measures to increase revenue by other sources (DLC, season passes etc...) is not evil it's common sense
If person A buys game B 2nd hand and the developer/publisher gets nothing from that sale how long do you think the games market would last? Would you run a business where 10,20,30 or 50+% of the product you make makes you 0 return?
What should and should not have been in the game at launch is entirely subjective, aside from obvious cases like when Capcom paywalled characters in Streetfighter which were PROVEN to be on the disc most other cases of gamers whingeing 'it should have been in the game' are effectively passing off their thoughts as fact- it's not fact
Consider that retail has a huge part to play in the supposed excessive pricing models for games, wonder why digital games are often the same price as the boxed version? Look at the powerful retailers who drive this and retailer exclusive crap for answers- yes those very same retailers that you buy games from 2nd hand (where the game makers get zero return)
Remember, if you are that old, when games came with just single player, one character and maybe a difficulty option. Now recall what cost those games were, yep, more or less the same as they are today but do they last as long, don't you crave more content?


Add all this up and include the fact you, the consumer, have a choice and hopefully those who cast aspirations of 'evil' and 'greedy' upon publishers/developers may realise how stupid and childish they look.

In short Destiny sold millions of copies, thus as a business they have every right to do what they like, if they lose consumers so be it but guess what they probably won't because the greatest antidote to all the flag waving of the modern self righteous gamer is the fact that most still buy the content in the end anyway.

@Wraithsrike- from the EA/XBL store mate

Destiny sold millions of copies because of Bungie's name, and Bungie LIED (false advertised) about many things, story, content, player and world interactions.


If you like what Destiny is instead of what is should have been cool for you, they won't get another single $ from me.

and there are plenty of people like me right now. We'll see how it plays out after TTK comes out.

Martini Da Gasalini
09-07-2015, 17:03
DLC always could have been in the game to begin with. That's not an argument. The point is that the game was a full game without the DLC, the DLC did not complete the game. The DLC was not necessary to continue playing the game. The DLC was an add-on, and an extra. The story was still shit with the DLC, so that's not an argument either. The game, when released, was a full game. It may not have lived up to the hype, but nothing ever does.

To sum it up, Bungie did absolutely nothing wrong with regards to the DLC. Destiny has some shortcomings, of course, but that doesn't change the fact that the game was a full game upon release. The game worked (mostly. Some bugs are in everything, and Destiny worked just fine for most of the userbase), the game wasn't missing anything integral to it. The DLC wasn't finished upon the initial release. Where is the problem with this?

Sure, Destiny could have had much better story telling. But that doesn't mean it's not a full game.




And I did read that interview, and the guy definitely across as a twat. There's no denying that. Still doesn't change the fact that the game was a full game when it was released, and all the DLC stuff is just people blowing hot air. Calling them crooks and whatever else is just acting entitled.


If you consider Destiny a "Full game" then just WOW.

but I get it, you're trying to play both sides of the fence.

KK78
09-07-2015, 18:09
@Martini your argument that Destiny sold because of Bungie is moot considering it still has circa 15 million unique users per month and 2.5 million per day. Many many games could not hope for those numbers.

Hell I don't play the game but I got a good 60-70 hours out of it which was well worth the money at the time, whether you feel it didn't have enough content is subjective, it's continued success is probably a more reliable barometer.

Martini Da Gasalini
09-07-2015, 19:15
@Martini your argument that Destiny sold because of Bungie is moot considering it still has circa 15 million unique users per month and 2.5 million per day. Many many games could not hope for those numbers.

Hell I don't play the game but I got a good 60-70 hours out of it which was well worth the money at the time, whether you feel it didn't have enough content is subjective, it's continued success is probably a more reliable barometer.


I'm sorry where did you get those numbers again? Activision was it?


http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/6/8561715/destiny-registered-players-increases-to-20m-while-average-play-time

you know registered doesn't mean active, I'm registered but not active, and assuming you are too?


Still don't believe that this game is gonna burst like the housing market did in the early to mid 2000's in the U.S

have a look at the comments.

http://massivelyop.com/2015/07/09/the-daily-grind-do-you-recommend-destiny/#comments
this is from today

KK78
09-07-2015, 21:29
You seem to care a lot about a game you don't play mate, the way of gaming generally it appears!

Martini Da Gasalini
09-07-2015, 22:14
You seem to care a lot about a game you don't play mate, the way of gaming generally it appears!


It does seem that way don't it :D

I'm just pissed off because I bought it and wasted my money.

That'll teach me to fall into the marketing hype

KK78
10-07-2015, 11:00
It does seem that way don't it :D

I'm just pissed off because I bought it and wasted my money.

That'll teach me to fall into the marketing hype

We all do it at some point or another :D;)

Ryno917
10-07-2015, 17:06
If you consider Destiny a "Full game" then just WOW.

but I get it, you're trying to play both sides of the fence.

It is a full game. It may not have everyone you want in it, but it is a full game. It's got a lot of content in it. It has very, very solid gameplay. It has fewer glitches than many other titles (despite what the alarmists posts would have you believe. You may have suffered more issues than most users, tainting your view, but every single game ever released suffers from that. The majority of users haven't suffered from a huge amount of problems. It just seems like it because the ones who are upset scream the loudest. It's the exact same thing on this forum, and every game forum). There is a story, it's just weaker than what Bungie offered in the Halo series. The lore has a lot of depth to it, the storytelling itself just sucks. That doesn't mean it's not a full game.

Bungie didn't lie about anything. Period. The game didn't live up to your expectations, but that doesn't mean it's a bad game, and it doesn't mean it's not a full game. It just means it isn't the game that you were expecting. I don't agree with the practice, but all video game marketing is pure hyperbole. Everyone knows that, but sometimes people choose to believe it anyways. Look at every claim made - Bungie didn't lie about anything, they just spoke in hyperbole. I don't like that tactic, but I know it exists and I can see through it like glass.

It's got a hell of a lot more in it than most games. It does. It really, really does. But people have their own expectations and when it doesn't meet them, they think it's crap. And that's fine - if you don't like it, that's your deal and that's cool. But throwing your toys out of the pram isn't very becoming, and helps no one.

And I'm not playing both sides, I'm just looking at the situation with logic and reason and rationality. There's things I was hoping for with Destiny that haven't, and won't, happen. That sucks. But that's life, and what is offered is still solid and easily worth the money I spent on it. For what I've spent on Destiny, I'd have only been able to order a few pizzas, and Destiny has given me much, much more satisfaction than those pizzas would have.

Bungie didn't lie. The game was a full game at release. Bungie owes you nothing.

Martini Da Gasalini
10-07-2015, 17:45
It is a full game. It may not have everyone you want in it, but it is a full game. It's got a lot of content in it. It has very, very solid gameplay. It has fewer glitches than many other titles (despite what the alarmists posts would have you believe. You may have suffered more issues than most users, tainting your view, but every single game ever released suffers from that. The majority of users haven't suffered from a huge amount of problems. It just seems like it because the ones who are upset scream the loudest. It's the exact same thing on this forum, and every game forum). There is a story, it's just weaker than what Bungie offered in the Halo series. The lore has a lot of depth to it, the storytelling itself just sucks. That doesn't mean it's not a full game.

Bungie didn't lie about anything. Period. The game didn't live up to your expectations, but that doesn't mean it's a bad game, and it doesn't mean it's not a full game. It just means it isn't the game that you were expecting. I don't agree with the practice, but all video game marketing is pure hyperbole. Everyone knows that, but sometimes people choose to believe it anyways. Look at every claim made - Bungie didn't lie about anything, they just spoke in hyperbole. I don't like that tactic, but I know it exists and I can see through it like glass.

It's got a hell of a lot more in it than most games. It does. It really, really does. But people have their own expectations and when it doesn't meet them, they think it's crap. And that's fine - if you don't like it, that's your deal and that's cool. But throwing your toys out of the pram isn't very becoming, and helps no one.

And I'm not playing both sides, I'm just looking at the situation with logic and reason and rationality. There's things I was hoping for with Destiny that haven't, and won't, happen. That sucks. But that's life, and what is offered is still solid and easily worth the money I spent on it. For what I've spent on Destiny, I'd have only been able to order a few pizzas, and Destiny has given me much, much more satisfaction than those pizzas would have.

Bungie didn't lie. The game was a full game at release. Bungie owes you nothing.

Have you played the game?

Ryno917
10-07-2015, 17:55
Have you played the game?

Yes, I've played it quite a bit. I was playing it last night, in fact.

What exactly makes it not a full game? I really do want to know. Because every single thing I've ever seen anyone post about it does not make it an incomplete game. Every. Single. Thing.

People need to learn to look at things objectively, and not subjectively.

Objectively, the game is bigger than most other titles.
Objectively, the game has been pretty solid for the majority of the userbase (in terms of bugs and problems).
Objectively, the storytelling is pretty weak, but there is a story. The story is better than some other titles, but nowhere near as well told as the Halo series.
Objectively, the gameplay is smooth and fluid.
Objectively, the DLC price point is a little on the high side.
Objectively, Bungie has not lied.


You've given no reasons for your claims. You haven't. You're just complaining because the game didn't live up to the subjective hype that you believed. Which is fine. Games usually don't. But that does not make it a non-full game. There's nothing integral missing from the game. Objectively.

Ian Bell
10-07-2015, 18:03
We've been dreaming of reaching Bungie income figures for years.

Please advise us.

Liquid7394
10-07-2015, 18:13
We've been dreaming of reaching Bungie income figures for years.

Please advise us.

Sell your souls to Activision.

TheReaper GT
10-07-2015, 20:49
We've been dreaming of reaching Bungie income figures for years.

Please advise us.

I know nothing about bungie, but I'll give you the activision formula:

1- Snoop dog engeneer voice pack, 10 quid
2- Pink nuts and bolts pack for wheels and suspension , 10 quid (that one is gonna make you RICH as foock)
3- TV broadcast mode pack on project cars, 150 quid ( we all know a chap that will buy it in a blink of an eye)

Martini Da Gasalini
10-07-2015, 21:17
Yes, I've played it quite a bit. I was playing it last night, in fact.

What exactly makes it not a full game? I really do want to know. Because every single thing I've ever seen anyone post about it does not make it an incomplete game. Every. Single. Thing.

People need to learn to look at things objectively, and not subjectively.

Objectively, the game is bigger than most other titles.

False, the game is about 11 hours long from beginning to end, I mean where are the other 5 planets? (yes I consider Pluto a planet)
you add at least a mission on each planet, and you're easily going to pass the 20hr mark for the game, but i know it's easier to sell those as DLCs

a "decent" game that supposedly considers itself on any kind of MMO or MMOFPS in this case which we know Destiny failed at is at least 20 hours.

average time to go through Destiny's story mode is about 10-11 hours, there are people that say they can get through it in 5-6 hours!

to give you an idea of comparison, an RPG can be anywhere from 40-100 hours, Hell it took me longer to get through BF4 story mode. (which was better story wise in my opinion than the fluff we got in Destiny.)



Objectively, the game has been pretty solid for the majority of the userbase (in terms of bugs and problems).
Subjective

Tell that to the the userbase that where/is pissed at the broken Crucible. Me being one of them.


Objectively, the storytelling is pretty weak, but there is a story. The story is better than some other titles, but nowhere near as well told as the Halo series.

I'll agree with you here, in that it's a shell of a story.




Objectively, the gameplay is smooth and fluid.

I will agree again, Bungie obviously got this right due to Halo, I'm not going to argue their gameplay mechanics as far as a shooter or PVP goes, this they got right but their weapon class system is broken especially when it comes to HC's being OP in PVP especially the exotic ones vs the other exotics.
but again, Bungie is going is going to give you pay to win as is the case with the DLC's that coming by way of leveling and new weapons, "don't have the DLC's uhhhhh to bad, you get left behind." -Bungie


Objectively, the DLC price point is a little on the high side.
Objectively, Bungie has not lied.

I little? just a little on the high side? for a strike ummmm yeah.

Again where are the rest of the planets?



You've given no reasons for your claims. You haven't. You're just complaining because the game didn't live up to the [I]subjective hype that you believed. Which is fine. Games usually don't. But that does not make it a non-full game. There's nothing integral missing from the game. Objectively.

I think that I have given enough rhyme and reason with examples personally and links since i opened this little post.

Martini Da Gasalini
10-07-2015, 21:21
We've been dreaming of reaching Bungie income figures for years.

Please advise us.


NO Ian do not follow the path of the dark side.

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

we don't want to suffer IAN

Neil Hopwood
10-07-2015, 21:36
I know nothing about bungie, but I'll give you the activision formula:

1- Snoop dog engeneer voice pack, 10 quid
2- Pink nuts and bolts pack for wheels and suspension , 10 quid (that one is gonna make you RICH as foock)
3- TV broadcast mode pack on project cars, 150 quid ( we all know a chap that will buy it in a blink of an eye)

Id pay $10 for a snoop Dogg engineer voice pack for pcars. That would be awesome.

TheReaper GT
10-07-2015, 21:38
Id pay $10 for a snoop Dogg engineer voice pack for pcars. That would be awesome.

I rest my case. auhauhahua

Martini Da Gasalini
10-07-2015, 22:02
smh

Pink_650S
10-07-2015, 22:11
Id pay $10 for a snoop Dogg engineer voice pack for pcars. That would be awesome.

'Box, box, box! Motherf$#@% box this lap, Snoopy D-O double Gizzle!'
'Green, green, green! The sticky green!'

MillsLayne
11-07-2015, 02:47
'Box, box, box! Motherf$#@% box this lap, Snoopy D-O double Gizzle!'
'Green, green, green! The sticky green!'

I'd be okay with that. haha

Liquid7394
11-07-2015, 07:02
Id pay $10 for a snoop Dogg engineer voice pack for pcars. That would be awesome.

I'd rather have a Samuel L. Jackson voice pack.

UMadBro
11-07-2015, 10:30
Mario Kart 8's 2 pack DLC deal. A great buy.

spinkick
12-07-2015, 05:08
I'd rather have a Samuel L. Jackson voice pack.

PIT NOW, MOTHER FU#*()$ER

Ryno917
13-07-2015, 17:15
False, the game is about 11 hours long from beginning to end, I mean where are the other 5 planets? (yes I consider Pluto a planet)

Where did they say the other planets were coming? Not to mention the fact that you can not walk on the gas/ice giants (Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus) and thus, they are not valid play areas. Their moons, though, those would be awesome.

But still - they never those planets were coming, and not having them doesn't mean it's not a full game. By that logic, COD is even worse than Destiny since it only has one planet.


you add at least a mission on each planet, and you're easily going to pass the 20hr mark for the game, but i know it's easier to sell those as DLCs

You're reaching here. You really, really are. You make it seem like all DLC should have been part of the base game, and that's just nonsense.


a "decent" game that supposedly considers itself on any kind of MMO or MMOFPS in this case which we know Destiny failed at is at least 20 hours.

The 'story' is Destiny is a little on the short side, but it's not the only activity in the game, and the majority of development focus is on what you do when you finish the story. Destiny isn't 'over' when you finish the story.


average time to go through Destiny's story mode is about 10-11 hours, there are people that say they can get through it in 5-6 hours!

So? That's not the only thing to do in Destiny.


Subjective

Tell that to the the userbase that where/is pissed at the broken Crucible. Me being one of them.

No, it is objective. The majority of the userbase has not had as many issues as the loud minority. The forums of every video game are filled with people complaining about this, that and everything else. That doesn't mean everyone is having those issues, it means the ones who are having those issues are posting about it while the rest of the userbase is off happily playing the game. That happens with literally every single video game. People who have issues with something get pissed off about it, find some other people who have the same issues, and then act like it's a major thing for everyone and the entire game is crap because of it - which is a subjective evaluation of the game based on their experiences, when in fact the game objectively works for most of the users.

And while I haven't done a lot of Crucible (I'm not a PVP fan), I haven't experienced anything broken about it? What's the problem there?



I will agree again, Bungie obviously got this right due to Halo, I'm not going to argue their gameplay mechanics as far as a shooter or PVP goes...

And that's the most important thing to me for an FPS. I'd rather play a 10 hour game with brilliant mechanics over and over than a 40 hour game with shite mechanics.


this they got right but their weapon class system is broken especially when it comes to HC's being OP in PVP especially the exotic ones vs the other exotics.

Every game has balance issues upon release, and almost every one of them has balance issues throughout it's entire lifespan. If you shit on Bungie for that, you have to shit on everything else, too. At least Bungie has made visible efforts to balance things.

Also, balancing is a subjective thing as well - different weapons, because of their different characteristics, are inherently unbalanced in principle. They will reward different skill levels, skill sets and playstyles and venues. (Think racing here, the BOP in some series is utterly fantastic, but that doesn't mean the cars are all the same, and it doesn't mean they all have an equal shot at every track. Different tracks reward different cars for different reasons, and different drivers perform better in different cars and with different setups that suit their driving styles. That's no different than different guns in the Crucible). That's why these things are always unbalanced. I'll also refer to my previous comment about people's experiences - they find they suck with weapon X, and therefore that weapon is too weak and everything else is OP. Did you read the forums for the first few months after release? I saw threads for literally every single weapon and subclass super calling them both OP and underpowered. Every single one. It is impossible to have these things all balanced for all players and make everyone happy, but again the loud minority will make it sound like the world is coming to an end.


but again, Bungie is going is going to give you pay to win as is the case with the DLC's that coming by way of leveling and new weapons, "don't have the DLC's uhhhhh to bad, you get left behind." -Bungie

Pay to win? Everyone gets gear that's the same level in Destiny. The tower gear can all be upgraded to max damage/strength, and it is all available to everyone in the game, DLC or not. There is no pay to win.

Not to mention, that there is only 2 game modes where your level comes into play, and they are special events and are optional. So, there's that.


Again where are the rest of the planets?

Again, that's a baseless, empty argument. You don't need the entire solar system for a game to be complete. You just want it (we all do) but that doesn't make the game incomplete.



I think that I have given enough rhyme and reason with examples personally and links since i opened this little post.

No, you've used baseless arguments with the typical entitled viewpoints that all the detractors (of every video game, not just Destiny) use (note that I'm not calling you entitled). Everything you've mentioned has been mentioned by others before, and all of it is subjective and unfounded.

Bottom line, Destiny objectively is not missing anything integral, has no show-stopping bugs for most users and is capable of providing hundreds of hours of entertainment for those who want it, and therefore it is a full game. Just because you want more, or want something changed, doesn't change that simple fact. It just means that it's not the game for you, and there's nothing wrong with that.

spinkick
14-07-2015, 00:59
Destiny is terrible. Great shooting but I dont embrace the grind. Worst trend in gaming ever. Everything is about earning and achievements. The carrot on a stick

Ryno917
14-07-2015, 14:37
Destiny is terrible. Great shooting but I dont embrace the grind. Worst trend in gaming ever. Everything is about earning and achievements. The carrot on a stick

A friend of mine once said something along the lines of "There's two ways to build a video game. The first is to make it a grind to level up and be more powerful. The second is to make it fun." It's true, most modern games focus on grinding and providing 'external' incentive to play. And the biggest problem with that, is it makes people play it for that reason, instead of playing it for fun. Destiny is fun, if you just focus on running around and shooting aliens. The gear and unlocks are secondary to the experience.

Personally, I find Destiny fun. The mechanics are solid. Best in the business. There's a grind, but ultimately, it's a shooting game. When you play it, you run around and shoot stuff. They could build 200 different missions, and they will all be running around and shooting stuff. They could quadruple the amount of gear, but ultimately you'll still just be running around and shooting stuff. That's kind of what the game is. Yes, there's a grind, but so what? The core mechanics are solid and fun, and when the core is solid, the rest is fluff.

If you don't like running around and shooting stuff, then why did you buy Destiny? If the only reason you play a game is to unlock stuff, then you shouldn't bother playing a game.

Sasquatch
15-07-2015, 14:11
I'd rather have a Samuel L. Jackson voice pack.

A George Costanza Engineer would be on my list.

MrFlibble81
15-07-2015, 14:43
A George Costanza Engineer would be on my list.

Better than that -- Cosmo Kramer voicepack! "KENNY!! kENNY!!" Lol

Sorry. I like Kramer. A lot! In case you couldn't tell....

Bluedice
15-07-2015, 23:11
A friend of mine once said something along the lines of "There's two ways to build a video game. The first is to make it a grind to level up and be more powerful. The second is to make it fun." It's true, most modern games focus on grinding and providing 'external' incentive to play. And the biggest problem with that, is it makes people play it for that reason, instead of playing it for fun. Destiny is fun, if you just focus on running around and shooting aliens. The gear and unlocks are secondary to the experience.

Personally, I find Destiny fun. The mechanics are solid. Best in the business. There's a grind, but ultimately, it's a shooting game. When you play it, you run around and shoot stuff. They could build 200 different missions, and they will all be running around and shooting stuff. They could quadruple the amount of gear, but ultimately you'll still just be running around and shooting stuff. That's kind of what the game is. Yes, there's a grind, but so what? The core mechanics are solid and fun, and when the core is solid, the rest is fluff.

If you don't like running around and shooting stuff, then why did you buy Destiny? If the only reason you play a game is to unlock stuff, then you shouldn't bother playing a game.

People that complain about Destiny grind are the ones looking exclusively for the carrot and fail to enjoy the ride. The game has great mechanics, the economy problems were fixed already, it's campaign has the usual size of any FPS (6-10 hours no surprise there), you get PvP, strikes, co-op survival mode if you get the HoW DLC and Raids. And worths mentioning that raids are probably the best stuff to come to FPS games ever, Vault of Glass is just brilliant.

Story wise even though I do understand the complaints to some extent, I think people neglect the fact that in Destiny the lore is actually more important than the story and the story arch isn't a six to ten hours arch, but a ten years one. So it's expected to some extent.

All in all for as much I don't like Bungie and don't agree with some of the stuff they do or the way they act, I must admit that the game is a lot of bang for the buck for those who get it. Lots of replay value for what is at is core a FPS, not to mention it is one of the best online pubs you get to hang out with friends.

Ryno917
16-07-2015, 14:33
On the story point as well - people also fail to understand that the story in Destiny is not supposed to be some huge humanity-saving one. You are one Guardian, of thousands in the lore. You're a cog in the machine, not the god-emperor-saviour like in Mass Effect or Halo, for instance. Your story, your role in the 'greater good' is small in scale relative to the bigger picture. People just don't get that. The stuff you do in the story in Destiny is vital to the overall picture, but you don't single handedly save the Solar System. That's not the point - and it's something that I actually applaud Bungie for, really.