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Stocky
16-07-2015, 03:13
I posted this as an answer in another thread, but thought it deserved it's own thread, so I posted it again here.

A fix for the Multiplayer problems....

Is a simple 1-5 ranking system, in which you gain rank points or lose rank points depending on your finishing position, versus the ranks of the drivers you finished in front of or behind. The crashers and problem drivers won't get past rank 1 or 2, and if they do, and start wrecking people again, their rank will drop right back down again. Your rank is always moving up or down, and eventually your rank will average out. It's very easy for a good driver to maintain a good rank, even if he loses bad some of the time. It's an easy forgiving system, and makes racing much better with the ability to keep the same skilled drivers together, without the drivers you don't want.

So rank 1 & 2 are beginners and wreckers, rank 3 & 4 the average to better drivers, and rank 4 & 5 the more serious top drivers.

Make it so you can create a race, for ranks 1-5, or 2-5, 4-5, or just rank 5's if you want. Or just rank 3's. Creators choice, any combination.

This was Papyrus' 1994 Nascar Online Beta ranking system. They had a 1-9 system, but I simplified it. Back then, it was dial up to Boston with a 2400 baud modem and long distance charges, lol.

You get 8 points for coming ahead of someone 4 ranks above you.
You get 7 points for coming ahead of someone 3 ranks above you.
You get 6 points for coming ahead of someone 2 ranks above you.
You get 5 points for coming ahead of someone 1 ranks above you.
You get 4 points for coming ahead of someone 0 ranks above you.
You get 3 points for coming ahead of someone 1 ranks below you.
You get 2 points for coming ahead of someone 2 ranks below you.
You get 1 points for coming ahead of someone 3 ranks below you.
You get 0 points for coming ahead of someone 4 ranks below you.

You lose 8 points for finishing behind someone 4 ranks below you.
You lose 7 points for finishing behind someone 3 ranks below you.
You lose 6 points for finishing behind someone 2 ranks below you.
You lose 5 points for finishing behind someone 1 ranks below you.
You lose 4 points for finishing behind someone 0 ranks below you.
You lose 3 points for finishing behind someone 1 ranks above you.
You lose 2 points for finishing behind someone 2 ranks above you.
You lose 1 points for finishing behind someone 3 ranks above you.
You lose 0 points for finishing behind someone 4 ranks above you.

At the end of the race, the points are calculated and applied to your official rank.
If you leave a race, the drivers car retires to the garage, and even though the driver left the game, his position on the scoreboard stays, and his points are still calculated. That will keep people from leaving the race, and is fair for the people still in the race. It's not fair if everyone leaves, but the guy in first, and then he gets no points.

If you think it's not fair because you lost connection during the race and shouldn't be penalized, I say just suck it up and do good next race. One or two races won't make that much of a difference in your rank, that you can't recover from.

The hard part is to come up with a point system.
You might even have to come up with a point system, for all types of vehicles, I haven't thought that through completely.

Example....
0-499 = rank 1
500-999 = rank 2
1000-1999 = rank 3
2000-
etc....

jason
16-07-2015, 03:19
I'm all for anything that could be implemented into the game to fix the carnage . I can see you have put a lot of effort and time into what you put together +1 bud

The thing is SMS are not going to fix it ( my thoughts) . Not in pc cars 1 :( ......... I would believe the online portion of this game is completed apart from stability issues and fixes.

NeonFlux
16-07-2015, 08:43
A good idea but.... in my experience there are plenty of fast players (ie, rank 4s and 5s) out there who don't play fair and lots of "beginners" who might not be as fast but know how to race clean so I'm not convinced this system would solve anything (unless I'm missing something).

Unfortunately, I'm not sure anything can be done to completely prevent wreckers/dirty players from spoiling other people's races.


I'm a big fan of keeping things simple and think that a "Kick" function for the lobby host would solve some of the problems

RTA nOsKiLlS
16-07-2015, 09:00
None of these rating systems will work. We simply need a kick option for the host. You are a clean racer.....you get smashed off the track.....it pisses you off.......you catch them up, and smash them back. They tell their friends your dirty.

One man's rammer is another man's clean racer. Just let the host decide who they want in the lobby they created.

My girlfriend had created a lobby yesterday, and one known dirty racer joined. I've raced this dick before on other games, they don't understand that clean means no contact, so instead of getting annoyed when the inevitable happened, we just left at about 9mins into qualifying. But that is WRONG! He should have been the one to leave.

Give the host the power to maintain a friendly clean lobby.

NemethR
16-07-2015, 09:14
We simply need a kick option for the host.

Exactly, and a BAN button.

AfterAll14
16-07-2015, 09:53
This system won't work. It's mathematically unstable.

falm
16-07-2015, 10:02
Good ghosting, e.g. if someone goes into a turn "without any breaking" and a kick button should solve most problems. Esp. for people like me who do not have the time to run in one of the leagues.

falm
16-07-2015, 10:04
A good idea but.... in my experience there are plenty of fast players (ie, rank 4s and 5s) out there who don't play fair and lots of "beginners" who might not be as fast but know how to race clean so I'm not convinced this system would solve anything (unless I'm missing something).

Unfortunately, I'm not sure anything can be done to completely prevent wreckers/dirty players from spoiling other people's races.


I'm a big fan of keeping things simple and think that a "Kick" function for the lobby host would solve some of the problems

Exactly, being "slow" (still learning) is not the same as running into other cars on purpose.

NutsMammoth
16-07-2015, 12:20
How the host can kick a player during a race?
The host is racing too. He cannot stop his car in order to open the lobby to kick the player by a simple request.
How to check if it's true or not that there is a rammer/wrecker on the track or that was just a racing accident?

And if the host did not see anything because he's elsewhere on the track, he must be warned that there is a rammer/wrecker.
How to warn him? By sending a message on the chat? And if he did not read the messages because too busy to drive?
Not to mention people abusing of kick requests "He hit my car, kick him!" Except that was just a small hit, nothing serious.
I already see people abusing of the Kick button and kick requests.

The Kick button seems to be a good thing on paper, but you must have a marshal monitoring the race, which is impossible.
Anyway, once your car wrecked and the race over for you, the bad guy can be kicked, the damage is done.

I agree that something must be done, I hate rammers and wreckers too. SMS should really do something for the multiplayer mode.

Even the Online Reputation is not working http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23707-Online-Reputation

Stocky
16-07-2015, 12:39
I agree Neonflux, there are good drivers that take people out in order to go to the front. There are drivers in real life racing that are the same way, but are much more select, sly, and careful how they do it. I always thought Jimmy Spencer & Tony Stewart (from Nascar) were like that. And even though I was a huge fan, Dale Earnhardt Sr. #3, use to do the same thing late in a race if he thought it would benefit him. He was never known for being a clean driver, but known for being a great driver none the less.

I don't think we'll ever get rid of those kinds of drivers, unless of course you have a kick option, but NutsMammoth is right, how are you going to kick during a race, if you even know who it is that hit you. And if it's the last lap, does it matter anyway. It's too late.

And even if you knew who hit you, is it automatically his fault? Maybe you broke too early? And are you going to believe Peter64 when he says kick Jimmy3 because he hit him, and then Jimmy3 says no, it was Peter64, lol? Kick them both? Hold a court trial on the track?

Or even before a race. Would you have booted Dale Earnhardt Sr. before a race starts because you know he isn't always clean? How about during a race? No, because you still want to race with the best, and you'll take your chances.

A kick option isn't the perfect answer either. In fact, it may cause more problems than it solves for public races.

There is no perfect system for getting rid of good drivers, that take people out. I'm a good driver, but I can take anyone out if I want to move up a position, and I can't see any way you'll be able to stop me, if that's what I want to do.

Even in a private race, last lap, your friend is on your tail, there is no guarantee he won't tap you. And I'll take getting taken out of a great race on the last lap by a friend (or anyone for that matter), over being taken out by a wrecker at the start on purpose. I'll put the blame on myself for letting my friend catch me in the first place, and by giving him the opportunity to take me out. And not blame him for being a wrecker. Will be a much more exciting race that way, than playing catch up after a nasty start with the morons.

And honestly, a tap to throw a driver off a bit so you can pass, is truly a real part of racing. It's hard to see the difference of a tap too hard.

You can't stop Jimmy Johnson from tapping Jeff Gordon on the last lap to take the win, but you can stop Jimmy Johnson from driving backwards on the start finish line, or ramming everyone at the start of a race.

Let's stop focusing on what we can't fix or make better, and on what we can.

The system above is to get rid of the track sitters, the wait & rammers, the track blockers, the start crashers, and those that aren't even trying. This is to reduce the really BAD drivers (that create the bulk of the problems). This is not for the good drivers gone bad, or for the good driver that takes someone out strategically.

This is not a solve all, but at least it's a start for the most annoying problems, and the obvious on purpose wreckers. It's also a way to keep same skilled drivers together. It kills a few birds with one stone.

And Afterall14, mathematically unstable? It's a mathematically balanced, stable, fair, simple system that's been used in online gaming for 20-30 years (probably before you were born), and other gaming platforms for years before that. You can't get more stable. It's the basic starting framework for many of todays ranking systems. I didn't make this sytem up. More points for beating a more skilled opponent and less points for beating a less skilled opponent. It's Core Ranking Fundamentals, and any ranking system would start with that fundamental principle. As it evolves, is when it becomes unstable, but not in this basic form. Sorry if it's not complicated and confusing enough for you. We don't need some convoluted system. Something simple and easy is what we need, anything else won't even have a chance in hell of being implemented in our game here, and would require months of beta testing. I'm looking at something easy, fast & efficient. Most people will think this system is too basic and simple, and here you are calling it unstable. Too funny. Go be a hater elsewhere.

NeonFlux
17-07-2015, 08:11
@Stocky.... You're right you can't kick people during a race but you can get rid of people during qualifying. Also it won't be long before we know who most of the problem drivers are so we'd be able to kick them before the session starts.

I think your system would be great for a ranked leaderboard but if used to decide who can and can't join your lobby could potentially discriminate against people trying to learn the game... they'd be condemned to racing in a warzone at first lol. Also it could potentially segment the community with different ranks racing in silos. Personally, I like to race with faster drivers as it makes me a better player.

NutsMammoth
17-07-2015, 09:53
Well, a rammer/wrecker can be clean during the qualifying because he knows he can be kicked.
Then during the race... you know what happens next.
It's not that simple ;)

The solution would be a fair online reputation system, not simple too...

RTA nOsKiLlS
17-07-2015, 10:12
Well, a rammer/wrecker can be clean during the qualifying because he knows he can be kicked.
Then during the race... you know what happens next.
It's not that simple ;)

The solution would be a fair online reputation system, not simple too...


Actually it is that simple, Just kick the idiot after the race. :)

RTA nOsKiLlS
17-07-2015, 11:30
I got sick of watching this noob wreck people's laps during qualifying, I decided to have a play.........


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ybn5w_clorax-blech_videogames

He left the lobby before the race started. Problem Solved LOL

Stocky
17-07-2015, 12:53
By the way Neon, I wasn't looking at my system as a leaderboard thing. It's only 5 ranks, and for matchmaking purposes only.