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AfterAll14
16-07-2015, 20:57
Hi fellow racers. Me and my friends recently had race together in rFactor. We had some arguable accidents. So I'd like to hear your opinions.
First vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_k3jn60pqw
1. Overtake, starts from 0:00. Who's this fault:
a) blue car fault
b) fair overtake, contact was race incident
2. Contact, starts from 1:10. Who's this fault:
a) yellow car fault
b) race incident

Second vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7-DnH487_Q
1. First incident - starts at 0:00. Yellow car brakes too late to defend position and cuts the corner:
a) should be penalized
b) should not be penalized
2. Overtake - starts at 0:32. Who's this fault:
a) blue car fault
b) fair overtake, contact was race incident

Thanks for your opinions.

sbtm
16-07-2015, 21:10
First vid I would say 1. b but not sure because it was pretty heavy divebomb. So maybe a.
2. Clearly a.

Second video:
1. B
2. A ...bad divebomb again.

Mr Akina
16-07-2015, 21:17
First vid:
1. B)
2. A)

Second vid
1. B) - Yellow didn't gain an advantage as Blue wasn't in a position to overtake. Yellow would have received a track limits warning and if he did it again, he would be told to give the place up (depending on race regulations)
2. B) - just a tough block pass. Although the Blue had a wheel on the grass, so race control might force them to give the place back. Racing incident in every race I've ever seen. In BTCC, sometimes that's the only way to make positions lol

TheReaper GT
16-07-2015, 21:36
B,A,B,A . (damn rfactor is ugly)

xautos
16-07-2015, 21:43
Hi fellow racers. Me and my friends recently had race together in rFactor. We had some arguable accidents. So I'd like to hear your opinions.
First vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_k3jn60pqw
1. Overtake, starts from 0:00. Who's this fault:
a) blue car fault
b) fair overtake, contact was race incident
2. Contact, starts from 1:10. Who's this fault:
a) yellow car fault
b) race incident

Second vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7-DnH487_Q
1. First incident - starts at 0:00. Yellow car brakes too late to defend position and cuts the corner:
a) should be penalized
b) should not be penalized
2. Overtake - starts at 0:32. Who's this fault:
a) blue car fault
b) fair overtake, contact was race incident

Thanks for your opinions.

1.a.yellow could of given a little space especially knowing he left the door open into the braking zone.
blue should of given the spot back after failing to complete the overtake within the white lines. gaining an advantage outside track limits and warned about it.
b.forcing another driver off the track and gaining an advantage. given a drive through penalty.

2.a. no action taken, blue failed to have any car length on the driver ahead and the one ahead did not gain any advantage. however yellow should be warned about track limits after something like that.
b. far too aggessive driving, braking way too far back and not giving the opponent racing respect and almost causing an accident in the process. driver should give the position back and dressed down in the next drivers briefing.

Awong124
16-07-2015, 22:02
Vid1:
1. B, but really yellow car was at fault for the contact.
2. A

Vid 2:
1. A, he should be penalized if he didn't give up the place. If he had braked enough to make the corner, he might have lost the place to blue. Even if he wouldn't have lost the place, blue was close enough to put that in doubt, and the decision would have been against yellow because he broke the rules cutting the track in the first place. He shouldn't be penalized if he didn't gain an advantage, but he clearly would have gained time by cutting the corner if he didn't deliberately slow down afterward to clearly show he didn't gain an advantage. Sector times would show that.
2. B, but it really should be yellow's fault for making contact, since blue was well past down the inside and yellow would have clearly seen him and still turned in. If he didn't turn in, he might have been able to cut back and get back past blue down the straight. But blue was dirty afterward for running yellow off the track, that move should have been penalized.



blue should of given the spot back after failing to complete the overtake within the white lines. gaining an advantage outside track limits and warned about it.


It could be argued that running wide at the next corner was due to contact caused by yellow.

xautos
16-07-2015, 22:11
It could be argued that running wide at the next corner was due to contact caused by yellow.

blue had the ability to brake during the overtake on the inside when he had the line and it would be yellow running off the track. but blue had the option and did not take it, he deliberately ran wide and off the track to complete the move. its a simple case of a driver who should of done a better overtaking attempt.

Awong124
16-07-2015, 22:23
blue had the ability to brake during the overtake on the inside when he had the line and it would be yellow running off the track. but blue had the option and did not take it, he deliberately ran wide and off the track to complete the move. its a simple case of a driver who should of done a better overtaking attempt.

I have had it happen many times in PCARS where an AI car hit me on the outside and caused me to spear straight off the track. It has nothing to do with going too fast. Blue could have been going slow enough to make the corner, but being hit on the side could change the attitude of the car and cause it to not make the corner.

xautos
16-07-2015, 22:28
I have had it happen many times in PCARS where an AI car hit me on the outside and caused me to spear straight off the track. It has nothing to do with going too fast. Blue could have been going slow enough to make the corner, but being hit on the side could change the attitude of the car and cause it to not make the corner.

what would of happen is when blue had the inside corner is that if he braked and took away yellows inside line and kept him on the outside, then yellow would have no other choice but to get off the gas or end up on the grass, blue would then be able to continue within the limits. he had that ability, so why didnt he choose it?

as for pcars, when cars come together they react very wierd to that on any of isi's mechanics with isi's games you can actualyl rub bodywork and not keep like your both going into the wall, you can both make it around, on pcars its the opposite, the slightest touch and your both in the wall. dont confuse the mechanics.

Awong124
16-07-2015, 22:31
what would of happen is when blue had the inside corner is that if he braked and took away yellows inside line and kept him on the outside, then yellow would have no other choice but to get off the gas or end up on the grass, blue would then be able to continue within the limits. he had that ability, so why didnt he choose it?

as for pcars, when cars come together they react very wierd to that on any of isi's mechanics with isi's games you can actualyl rub bodywork and not keep like your both going into the wall, you can both make it around, on pcars its the opposite, the slightest touch and your both in the wall. dont confuse the mechanics.

Blue didn't do that because if yellow didn't turn in an hit him, he probably would have made the corner without incident.

This is also a game. What's to say this game doesn't also have strange contact mechanics? Fact is contact happened. If contact didn't happen and blue still ran wide, then you would be correct.

xautos
16-07-2015, 22:38
Blue didn't do that because if yellow didn't turn in an hit him, he probably would have made the corner without incident.

This is also a game. What's to say this game doesn't also have strange contact mechanics? Fact is contact happened. If contact didn't happen and blue still ran wide, then you would be correct.

he had ample opportunity to make it around, you should watch the replay more closely after the attempted pass, watch his steering wheel, and notice how much time he had and what he could of done. you cant argue that, he had chances. im not going to argue this further.

this game has very strange contact machanics thats why im always standoffish when it comes to overtaking. when i am certain i can overtake i will take it otherwise i will hang back because i know damn well if i try a botched overtake and the driver on the outside turns on me were both going in as if i have no steering to get out of it. with isi's games if i get hit in the side the driver on the outside would of deflected off instead.

Awong124
16-07-2015, 23:46
he had ample opportunity to make it around, you should watch the replay more closely after the attempted pass, watch his steering wheel, and notice how much time he had and what he could of done. you cant argue that, he had chances. im not going to argue this further.

this game has very strange contact machanics thats why im always standoffish when it comes to overtaking. when i am certain i can overtake i will take it otherwise i will hang back because i know damn well if i try a botched overtake and the driver on the outside turns on me were both going in as if i have no steering to get out of it. with isi's games if i get hit in the side the driver on the outside would of deflected off instead.

Point is, whether he had opportunity or not, there was uncertainty created due to the impact. If yellow wanted the situation ruled in his favor, he shouldn't have deliberately turned in on blue. You could very well be correct in your assessment, but because of the impact running wide cannot be ruled against blue in my opinion.

xautos
17-07-2015, 11:29
Point is, whether he had opportunity or not, there was uncertainty created due to the impact. If yellow wanted the situation ruled in his favor, he shouldn't have deliberately turned in on blue. You could very well be correct in your assessment, but because of the impact running wide cannot be ruled against blue in my opinion.

it seems like i was arguing against a brickwall? you already had in your mind that this driver did no wrong and attempted to argue anyway. he did wrong and your not looking or paying attention.. frankly i cant see any reason this should go on if your not willing to explore why, thats the part of what a drivers steward gets into, he sees all the angles and goes through all the availible data and then studies why, what could of happened, what did happen.. so on.

i can only hope you open your mind to other possibilities otherwise, why are trying? in my mind that driver overtook and went off the track on purpose to finish an overtake, he should of given it back. all he had to do is just give it back and try again, the arguement is not needed after that point.

Awong124
17-07-2015, 15:30
it seems like i was arguing against a brickwall? you already had in your mind that this driver did no wrong and attempted to argue anyway. he did wrong and your not looking or paying attention.. frankly i cant see any reason this should go on if your not willing to explore why, thats the part of what a drivers steward gets into, he sees all the angles and goes through all the availible data and then studies why, what could of happened, what did happen.. so on.

i can only hope you open your mind to other possibilities otherwise, why are trying? in my mind that driver overtook and went off the track on purpose to finish an overtake, he should of given it back. all he had to do is just give it back and try again, the arguement is not needed after that point.

It's kind of ironic that you don't see how this goes both ways. Everything you said in the first paragraph I could use word for word back on you.

Why should he have given the place back? The impact might have unsettled his car and he felt he had to straighten it out or lose control. That's all the justification needed to go off track. If you had been paying attention, you'd see that there were actually two impacts. The first big one, then the two cars separated for a brief instant and the yellow car went back and tapped the blue car again in the rear quarter panel. That would have been enough to unsettle the car. If there was no contact and he ran wide, then sure, he should give the place back. The point is that the consequences of the contact is uncertain, and the contact was the fault of the yellow car. Or maybe he should give the place back and the yellow car should be given a penalty for making deliberate contact then, whatever.

In my mind, the blue car didn't go offtrack for the purpose of completing the overtake as it wasn't necessary. If contact wasn't made he would have had plenty of grip to make the corner. You can see from his steering inputs that he straightened out the wheel before going wide. If he had gone wide because he was going too fast and overshot the corner, his wheel would have been cranked as he understeered wide. But that didn't happen. In my mind he went wide to keep the car stable because the yellow car hit him.