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View Full Version : First bend carnage - why do I always come out worst?!



AlanK
18-07-2015, 19:07
I don't have a lot of time, so commonly do shortish public online races (GT3 mainly). Although I hate to entertain the idea, I need some tactics to survive. I must be doing something wrong because I usually end up last by the 2nd bend (although I might have started 12th out of 20 or so). Somehow the idiots manage to get back on track more quickly than I can and it's starting to get annoying. So, the question is: how should I handle being shunted from behind and all sides? Change into 1st while spinning uncontrollably? Foot on brake or off? How best to get out of sand quickly? Any tips gratefully received.

awaite85
18-07-2015, 19:39
If you can't qualify 1st and get through the 1st corner as quick as possible, scoot off to the side for that 1st turn. That's what i've been doing.

madmax2069
18-07-2015, 19:58
I usually allow them to wreck each other out and I happily pass them by. But when im in 1st there really isnt much you can do when a bunch of race idiots want to use your car as a brake.

The race isnt won on the first corner.

gookiecrunch
18-07-2015, 21:44
Mindset... I'd say that's your biggest issue. It happens to me as well.. I'll start 2nd or something... Get blasted from behind.. off track.. I try to race clean so if I see someone coming I can't pull I front and wreck him huh.. so I have to wait a split sec then get back and someone else will invariably pull on track and slam me again cause they don't look like I did and give room. Trying to race clean against people who don't is very hard...
if u do t give a f... Like them and just get wrecked then pull back on not caring if u wreck someone else.. you'll not be last after the wreck.
what's worse for me is catching up after the wrecks and someone is close to on pace but I'm passing them and it took 4 laps to catch them... Then I go for the pass... And the purposely nudge me off track.. making it impossible to recatch them by the end of race... I hate a$$hole drivers.

AlanK
18-07-2015, 23:41
Thanks for the feedback. Avoidance may be a good idea - I'd lose less time with a 5 sec track penalty! I think I'll also start baling out of races before the start if they end up with more than maybe 8 or 10 cars in them at the end of quali or warm up. The big races seem to attract the kamikaze set.

NutsMammoth
19-07-2015, 10:43
First, thanks for the patch 2.5, the multiplayer mode is really better now with a really good penalty system against crashers not to mention the Online Reputation :D
And for the multiplayer saved replay too, now I can watch a replay without any bug :)

Now some advices for a public online race.

For example, with a 8-lap race and 20 drivers:

Qualifying: Skip and start the race from the last row.
Lap 1: The race starts, stay behind all cars until the first corner.
Lap 1: Multiple crash at the first corner, 10 cars wrecked, drivers leaves the race.
Lap 1: 10 drivers left, stay behind. 2 drivers crashed their car because too fast or rammed into each other and leaves the race.
Lap 2: 8 drivers left, stay behind. 3 drivers crashed their car because too fast or rammed into each other and leaves the race.
Lap 3: 5 drivers left, stay behind. 2 drivers crashed their car because too fast or rammed into each other and leaves the race.
Lap 3: 3 drivers left. Good job, you are now in 3nd position.
Lap 4: The 2 remaining drivers have wrecked their car because they rammed into each other and leaves the race.
Lap 5: Good job, you are now in 1st position, perform the 3 remaining laps while driving quietly.
Lap 8: Congratulations, you won the race! :cool:

You're welcome ;)

AlanK
19-07-2015, 13:38
So, whatever the race, I can win it in the Ford Escort! :D

lifeofbrian
19-07-2015, 15:27
Very difficult to avoid idiots that want to wreck you, and there are many in PCARS, but to lower the risk I say stay on the inside so you don't have to cut across people flying off the track, and don't be cautious, get round that corner as quick as possible, even if you miss the correct exit or over steer a little, just get out of the way. Then you just have to worry about the absolute ****s the hunt people down to wreck them.


I don't have a lot of time, so commonly do shortish public online races (GT3 mainly). Although I hate to entertain the idea, I need some tactics to survive. I must be doing something wrong because I usually end up last by the 2nd bend (although I might have started 12th out of 20 or so). Somehow the idiots manage to get back on track more quickly than I can and it's starting to get annoying. So, the question is: how should I handle being shunted from behind and all sides? Change into 1st while spinning uncontrollably? Foot on brake or off? How best to get out of sand quickly? Any tips gratefully received.

xautos
19-07-2015, 20:15
ive been in too many turn 1 crashes, most of the time im a total victim in the crash and sometimes even a direct target for another driver, probably trying to use me as a braking marker, but because of the wierd collision system this game has i can drag that other player into the dirt with me, but by the time i am back on the track though, i would of lost 20 seconds for something that didnt need to happen.

EvoM3
20-07-2015, 12:54
Just had an online race at Bathurst, 20 cars, I put the car on pole.

I brake for T1 and the car behind crashes into me, I go off into the wall and get suspension damage... race over...

They seriously need to do something about the getting punted from behind epidemic..

MrFlibble81
20-07-2015, 13:44
What's more annoying then 1st lap carnage is when everyone leaves before the end of the race!

Couple days ago I was racing around Hockenheim online in a 8 or 10 lap race (I can't remember exactly) with like 12 other people, and I was running a pretty good race in 4th after missing the first corner pile up and I was having a great fight for 3rd while trying to keep the 5th place guy behind.

I made a mistake going into the straight before the hairpin so the guy behind me overtook me but I slipped in behind picked up a slipstream and outbraked him going into the hairpin. He then nudges me and quits!

And then as the race went on, more and more people quit until there was just me and 1 other guy left! That's more annoying then being caught in the first corner wreck!!!

321Respawn
22-07-2015, 00:13
I agree that starting from the back is probably the best way to avoid carnage .
Problem with that is sitting in the pits for 15 minutes is boring as hell and you will probably never catch the front guys if they are half decent racers .

madmax2069
22-07-2015, 00:40
The thing I find most annoying more so then the 1st corner carnage, is people that jump the start and ram you and cause you to get a drive through penalty.

If a player jumps the start they need a drive though penalty (which usually happens), if they jump the start and slam in the back of someone then that person should get a black flag (which doesn't happen). And the person that was hit shouldn't receive a penalty.

Murt
24-07-2015, 01:49
This is something everyone is subjected to unfortunately and comes from inconsiderate racers that think the race is won on the first corner. Starting in the first two rows and getting a good start off the line I find helps. Anything further back unless right at the back is a lottery. I try and race with as many friends in the same lobby as I can so at least I have considerate people who just want to race rather than wreck.

Have your race wrecked by other drivers bad driving is one thing but I take the attitude than mistakes happen and hopefully as they get better they will learn. It's the ones that intentionally wreck people that annoys me the most. Lately I have had back markers waiting for the leaders to come through just so they can pull over and wreck their race. I have lost a few races because of this behaviour recently...W*kers. Go and play Wreckfest and leave people who want to race alone

Diablo944
24-07-2015, 02:19
Playing randoms (even some of my friends) i avoid starting from anywhere near the front. Things get so bad in relation to get shoved out, nudged off track and the general carnage of people who dont actually race other people, they just go as fast as possible everywhere as though there is nobody else on the track, i have ended up not racing them. They get away at the early stages of the race and i run more as a back marker, genuinely trying to race the tail enders, but never really playing to win anymore.

Things got so bad for me that i rarely play online anymore. I realised soon on that my idea of racing and other peoples are not always on the same page, often not even the same book.

Murt
24-07-2015, 04:30
Look me up and add me online if you like Diablo. My steam name is same as on here. I can't always avoid being involved in a mishap by generally race with clean racers. I don't mind the odd accident. that's racing but knowing it is just an accident is way better than knowing you've been taken out by stupidity or intentionally

Diablo944
24-07-2015, 05:29
Look me up and add me online if you like Diablo. My steam name is same as on here. I can't always avoid being involved in a mishap by generally race with clean racers. I don't mind the odd accident. that's racing but knowing it is just an accident is way better than knowing you've been taken out by stupidity or intentionally
Right mindset, wrong format, ps4 dude

C. Banger
25-07-2015, 23:32
What's more annoying then 1st lap carnage is when everyone leaves before the end of the race!

Couple days ago I was racing around Hockenheim online in a 8 or 10 lap race (I can't remember exactly) with like 12 other people, and I was running a pretty good race in 4th after missing the first corner pile up and I was having a great fight for 3rd while trying to keep the 5th place guy behind.

I made a mistake going into the straight before the hairpin so the guy behind me overtook me but I slipped in behind picked up a slipstream and outbraked him going into the hairpin. He then nudges me and quits!

And then as the race went on, more and more people quit until there was just me and 1 other guy left! That's more annoying then being caught in the first corner wreck!!!

Very similar thing happened to me. 10 lap Group A race - after 2 laps everyone quit apart from me and another guy. I was way faster than him, so spent 8 laps just cruising 'round just to get the win. Not much fun at all.

MrFlibble81
27-07-2015, 02:44
Don't know about you guys but I've not really come across any first lap carnage the last few days. Admittedly I don't play as much as I'd like, in fact I've probably only played 2 or 3 Times this whole weekend.

But what's been annoying me more now is the amount of people who are just impatient when trying to pass.

This is going to sound really arrogant band I don't mean it to sound that way but I'm pretty good at making my race car wide so it's hard for someone to overtake but people seem unable to wait until an overtake oppurtunity becomes available. Instead people seem to be making do or die lunges up the inside sometimes knocking me and themselves off the track. I know sometimes it's a part of racing and I also know that the 5 lap races which the majority of online races are breeds impatience but come on people. Be a little more patient, set up an overtaking move. You should know what corners you're quick in.

I just wish the "long" races where actually long.

AdM1
27-07-2015, 02:56
When people say something like 'I'm pretty good at making my car wide' it's no wonder you get into wrecks. Stop swerving about the track and just let the faster players by so you don't get wrecked?

MrFlibble81
27-07-2015, 03:02
I don't swerve. I make one move to block and slow down a little in the corner to make the personbehind hit the brakes and then I accelerate away. That's it, it's all about when you make the move.

AdM1
27-07-2015, 03:13
Meh different racing styles I guess. Personally I play to have fun not to get wrecked. So if someone is faster than me I tend to make room and then try hang onto the back of them, actually works out a lot because they start pushing harder and mess up meaning I can take the position back and make a gap again.

Slowing down in the corner is a good technique in single player maybe but not something I'd bother doing much online unless I knew they raced clean.

hostaman
27-07-2015, 11:55
First, thanks for the patch 2.5, the multiplayer mode is really better now with a really good penalty system against crashers not to mention the Online Reputation :D
And for the multiplayer saved replay too, now I can watch a replay without any bug :)

Now some advices for a public online race.

For example, with a 8-lap race and 20 drivers:

Qualifying: Skip and start the race from the last row.
Lap 1: The race starts, stay behind all cars until the first corner.
Lap 1: Multiple crash at the first corner, 10 cars wrecked, drivers leaves the race.
Lap 1: 10 drivers left, stay behind. 2 drivers crashed their car because too fast or rammed into each other and leaves the race.
Lap 2: 8 drivers left, stay behind. 3 drivers crashed their car because too fast or rammed into each other and leaves the race.
Lap 3: 5 drivers left, stay behind. 2 drivers crashed their car because too fast or rammed into each other and leaves the race.
Lap 3: 3 drivers left. Good job, you are now in 3nd position.
Lap 4: The 2 remaining drivers have wrecked their car because they rammed into each other and leaves the race.
Lap 5: Good job, you are now in 1st position, perform the 3 remaining laps while driving quietly.
Lap 8: Congratulations, you won the race! :cool:

You're welcome ;)

It's for this reason I never join a short race.

Also never join a race with full damage, there's a good chance you'll spend 15 minutes qualifying to get wiped out on the first corner by the A-holes around you.

MrFlibble81
27-07-2015, 14:07
Meh different racing styles I guess. Personally I play to have fun not to get wrecked. So if someone is faster than me I tend to make room and then try hang onto the back of them, actually works out a lot because they start pushing harder and mess up meaning I can take the position back and make a gap again.

Slowing down in the corner is a good technique in single player maybe but not something I'd bother doing much online unless I knew they raced clean.

That's what I'm saying, on a straight if someone's quicker than me I'll let them past but if they want to overtake me in a corner, I'm not going to make it easy for them. They need to work for it. That's racing.

It's just people are impatient in a corner and sometimes try a lunge up the inside and then hit me which is annoying but also part of racing. I'm just saying that there's some people who need to exercise a little patience sometimes.

bc525
27-07-2015, 16:36
I don't swerve. I make one move to block and slow down a little in the corner to make the personbehind hit the brakes and then I accelerate away. That's it, it's all about when you make the move.

Seems like what you’re describing is “brake-checking” – meaning you’re intentionally braking early for a corner in an attempt to disrupt the car following you. Be aware that move can be viewed by some players as dirty and can actually cause the trailing car to hit the back end of your car.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re actually doing when you say “slow down a little in the corner to make the person behind hit the brakes”? That sounds like brake-checking to me, like you’re altering your normal braking point going into the corner to mess up the trailing car.

I’d say just race your race and hold your normal racing line around the track. It’s up to the car behind to figure out how to overtake me, but I don’t get into the blocking, swerving, brake-checking, etc. Seems like it’s not worth creating contact just to hold onto my position for an online race.

MrFlibble81
27-07-2015, 17:44
No no I don't brake check. I'm holding my line and then hitting the gas slightly later then one might expect.

A bit like a good restart in an F1 race or something. Does that make sense?

Is that considered dirty? I've never thought it was but if it is I shall stop. :/

bc525
27-07-2015, 18:27
Okay I see what you’re saying, I think you’re fine. Sounds more like you’re working the throttle on corner exit rather than altering your braking on corner entry. If you’re aware of the car behind you, and you’re trying to race them cleanly and they lunge up the inside and cause contact … well, then yeah they were being impatient. It happens.

Random lobbies usually take me a little while to figure out how cleanly the other players are willing to race. There have been plenty of qualifying sessions where it’s immediately apparent that the room has a number of overly aggressive and impatient racers. I mean when they’re chopping my lines during qualifying, it’s pretty clear how they’re going to treat me during the race. lol.

Usually in that environment I’ll try and stay at the back end of the grid (meaning I don’t post a very quick qualifying time). Sometimes that helps avoid the first lap calamity, but not always.

MrFlibble81
27-07-2015, 18:43
Okay I see what you’re saying, I think you’re fine. Sounds more like you’re working the throttle on corner exit rather than altering your braking on corner entry. If you’re aware of the car behind you, and you’re trying to race them cleanly and they lunge up the inside and cause contact … well, then yeah they were being impatient. It happens.

Random lobbies usually take me a little while to figure out how cleanly the other players are willing to race. There have been plenty of qualifying sessions where it’s immediately apparent that the room has a number of overly aggressive and impatient racers. I mean when they’re chopping my lines during qualifying, it’s pretty clear how they’re going to treat me during the race. lol.

Usually in that environment I’ll try and stay at the back end of the grid (meaning I don’t post a very quick qualifying time). Sometimes that helps avoid the first lap calamity, but not always.

Yeah I should have been clearer but yes I'm working the throttle on exit. The only time I'm ever going to brake earlier than normal during normal racing is if my tires have gone or starting to go/too hot/too cold etc or if there's a wreck in front of me. Good to know I'm not racing dirty though! :D I was worried that I had been and didn't know it!

Yeah you can normally tell what kind of racers are in the lobby during qualifying for sure. If they're on an out lap and you're on a quick lap and they're trying to block you, you can pretty much guarantee that they'll be ramming you off the track during the race.

I don't have very good qualifying pace, race pace is good but qualy is a whole other ball game. So I'm normally toward the back so I'm normally able to miss the first bend carnage (although I am seeing less rammers these days then I was).

justbeingmiko
28-07-2015, 10:02
Yeah I should have been clearer but yes I'm working the throttle on exit. The only time I'm ever going to brake earlier than normal during normal racing is if my tires have gone or starting to go/too hot/too cold etc or if there's a wreck in front of me. Good to know I'm not racing dirty though! :D I was worried that I had been and didn't know it!

Yeah you can normally tell what kind of racers are in the lobby during qualifying for sure. If they're on an out lap and you're on a quick lap and they're trying to block you, you can pretty much guarantee that they'll be ramming you off the track during the race.

I don't have very good qualifying pace, race pace is good but qualy is a whole other ball game. So I'm normally toward the back so I'm normally able to miss the first bend carnage (although I am seeing less rammers these days then I was).

This is a legit method of racing - I often ease my speed to the apex after a pass to ensure the car behind cannot undercut me. This in normal fair racing would be fine.

But alas, in most public races, this just means I get punted and then shouted at for being too slow!! That and the first corner mayhem, or my new fave, the blatant turn in and ram when you are already past them.....the ramming is frustrating, them trying to defend their actions and blame you for their mistakes - well that is just rude!!

Jakob
30-07-2015, 12:28
Yeah I should have been clearer but yes I'm working the throttle on exit. The only time I'm ever going to brake earlier than normal during normal racing is if my tires have gone or starting to go/too hot/too cold etc or if there's a wreck in front of me. Good to know I'm not racing dirty though! :D I was worried that I had been and didn't know it!

Yeah you can normally tell what kind of racers are in the lobby during qualifying for sure. If they're on an out lap and you're on a quick lap and they're trying to block you, you can pretty much guarantee that they'll be ramming you off the track during the race.

I don't have very good qualifying pace, race pace is good but qualy is a whole other ball game. So I'm normally toward the back so I'm normally able to miss the first bend carnage (although I am seeing less rammers these days then I was).

Good to know ;)

MrFlibble81
30-07-2015, 12:31
Good to know ;)

Ahh my nemesis strikes again.....

Murt
31-07-2015, 01:22
Just had an online race at Bathurst, 20 cars, I put the car on pole.

I brake for T1 and the car behind crashes into me, I go off into the wall and get suspension damage... race over...

They seriously need to do something about the getting punted from behind epidemic..

I hear ya man. I can usually get away clean at Bathurst in P1. P2 can be a lottery though. It's even more annoying when you know there is only one other person on the game that can beat your lap time right? Clear that corner ok and it would be race over for everyone else. No-one is going to catch you

NutsMammoth
31-07-2015, 12:07
There are already several threads about that and it seems to be too much difficult to check if a collision/crash was intentional or not.
There are too many parameters to manage to create an intelligent penalty system.
Anyway, there are already to much things to fix in the multiplayer mode, even the Online Reputation is not working.

A good solution could be dedicated servers using a blacklist of all know real rammers and race crashers.
Rammers and race crashers could still play by joining public lobbies or create their own lobby because they are customers too.

Motorhead Racer
01-08-2015, 05:14
Practice Practice Practice...
You get to know where the wreckers like to hit, and in turn learn how to take the corners differently..

I hate this notion of if someone is faster you should let them through, be patient, if you are faster you will find a way through, not always..
I can make my car wide, by positioning the car before and through the corner a certain way, but often you need the other guy to know how racing and defending a position works, really good when someone counters your defensive manuaver..

The BIGGEST issue people do not seem to understand is, that if you are relatively close to the guy in front, you are NOT going to be able to take your usual braking point, the concertina effect means you WILL have to brake earlier than normal, and likely earlier than the guy in front, and hence the guy behind you earlier still and so forth, I think at the start as everyone is so close this is what happens! Also worth thinking about, you are still in the draft, and on some previous games you still get 'dragged' forwards by the draft effect even in the braking zone.