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StefB
22-07-2015, 13:23
The cut track 5s penalty is a good idea, but very dangerous (virtualy :) ) in multiplayer races.
If a player get this , and not the following others , and if they are too close , this can give accident on the track.

Keep this system, but could you add a small coutdown before applying the speed limit, for example "cut track penalty in 5 4 3 2 1 ..." to let the driver a few time to leave the racing line.
this could be only in race mode, or online mode, to avoid bad best lap times on tracks with a cut possible just before the finish line.


thanks for reading

Stocky
22-07-2015, 13:38
Or the car should be ghosted, so that others can drive thru it if given a penalty.
And speaking of ghosted, I can't tell you how many times I've wiped out avoiding a wreck, when I didn't have to because the car coming out of the pits was still ghosted.
Is there any way to tell if a car is ghosted or not? There should be some markings that distinguish it from a non ghosted car, but I never looked or noticed.

el3KtroN
22-07-2015, 16:26
thats a good idea, cars with time penalty should be ghosted, because the most want to block other players

Umer Ahmad
22-07-2015, 16:33
I think they will ghost the penalized car

Stocky
22-07-2015, 16:58
I think they will ghost the penalized car

And obvious to all visually, that it is ghosted.

StefB
22-07-2015, 17:37
If its ghosted, the risk is that the guy stay on the ideal racing line. and too people seeing him may try to pass right or left because they don't know when he won't be ghosted anymore -> other possible accident.

Stocky
22-07-2015, 17:41
1) Timed penalties should immediately ghost that car when penalty is administered.
2) The ghost car should immediately become faded. The more faded, the longer it's ghosted. The fade starts to go away as it wears off. Kind of like a timer.
3) And if they improve the opponent names, they could also put a ghost digital timer on that, instead of the ping rate, or in place of the ping rate while ghosted.

This would give other drivers 2 visual clues of a ghosted or penalized car, with plenty of time to adjust, if they need to at all depending on the amount of time left on that ghost.
This is also useful for those ghost cars coming out of the pits and jumping in your way on a hot lap.
In both these situations, you may decide to just drive through that ghosted car, if you know it's ghosted and have the time to do so.

Also, with these 2 visual additions, the ghost may become more practical to use in other situations in the future.

EvilM0nk3y
22-07-2015, 20:11
I think penalties should be time penalties added on at the end of the race. Your engineer should let you know if those ahead or behind have time penalties. If they cut repeatedly then a drive-thru should be issued or a DQ.

Slowing the car is dangerous.

StefB
23-07-2015, 06:38
A ghost car on the track look less real game for me (anyway it's used).

If you drive fast and see a slow car on the track, not sure you have time so see if it's a ghost one and for how many time will it be ghosted.

That why i suggested the simple countdown (only in race or multiplayer mode). Many others things more important must be done in the game, and i think this should be easier to add than a "new ghost rule".

nono782
23-07-2015, 08:19
I think penalties should be time penalties added on at the end of the race. Your engineer should let you know if those ahead or behind have time penalties. If they cut repeatedly then a drive-thru should be issued or a DQ.

Slowing the car is dangerous.

I think there are double penalties because I recently won 2 races and I ended up 2nd on the final board.
Or it was just a bug ?

FoxMulder
23-07-2015, 09:00
I'd rather have drivethrough penalties or disqualifications after x or y amount of cut track incidents than those 1999 slow down penalties. For hotlapping you simply get your time invalidated, for races you have to do a drivethrough, I don't see why that is not the standard nowadays.

LiveWire
23-07-2015, 15:21
I definitely feel that drive-through and time penalties are the way to go. They don't slow real race cars on track, it would be dangerous. I can't count how many times it has created accidents online in game. Worse case, have a checkbox to enable or disable the slowdowns. I personally like as much realism as possible, the slowdown penalties are not realistic.

StefB
24-07-2015, 07:31
I'd rather have drivethrough penalties or disqualifications after x or y amount of cut track incidents than those 1999 slow down penalties. For hotlapping you simply get your time invalidated, for races you have to do a drivethrough, I don't see why that is not the standard nowadays.

I Agree, but as it's not in the game , this may be too heavy to change. I suggested the countdown thinking it's easy to add. :D

To be as real a possible, i'd prefer a first : races for a certain time instead of lap, real weather working in online races, and tyre choice in pit strategy same as the setup for the car, and having more than one setup for the car.

FoxMulder
24-07-2015, 09:10
Yeah it's way too complicated to change the penalty system now, really a bummer cuz I'm sure they got better suggestions from the community during development. No idea why they went with slowdowns since it's highly unrealistic.

LiveWire
24-07-2015, 15:24
The slow down was added pretty close to release. Getting disqualified for not serving a penalty is already in place.

gazman
26-07-2015, 03:57
how is it a cut track penalty if you run wide. Can't believe this game was made with sim racers $ backing it yet it has so many arcade game features.

Ralph B
26-07-2015, 11:21
Ran into that problem yesterdays at Catalunya. The guy in front of me spun in the last chicane. Had to go wide to avoid a collision and .... got a 3 second penalty. Ok, bad enough that it was unjustified in that case, but even worse: I couldn't accelerate after I was back on track and blocked the guy straight behind me. We had some fast and clean race so far and I think, he didn't expect such an idiotic move from me. So he smashed into my back and spun out. Don't know who he was, however I'm very sorry about ruining our both race - even it wasn't my fault and shurely not intended.

I really whished annother solution, but I think ghosting the penalized car isn't a really good one. If you are behind such an opponent you never know if he is a gost or not, and it can becomes back solid in the absolutely wrong moment. This can cause furrhter confusion and unnecessary accidents and adventurous moves. And it's somehow unrealistic, too.
Apart from adding the penalty to the race-result - which would require lot's of coding I assume - I'd suggest you have to slow down (I think, AC had a similar system for some time), but you can choose when and where you do it within the next lap. So a clean racer has the chance to do it at a less dangerous part of the track and can go out of the way of others.

Pfalzdriver
27-07-2015, 10:11
Actually I think the slow down penalty isnt a bad solution, only the implementation isnt the best. For example, I did some multiplayer racing last saturday and lost the race because of a slow down penalty, which I didnt deserve. As usual I was racing the Nordschleife and had a nice fight for the 1st place with a pretty good guy. He tried attacking me for over 10km and always stepped back, because he couldnt pass me savely. Was very fair and decent driving until the last round.
At Hatzenbach I was lill to late on the brake, so I received a warning, although I was only off track for maybe half a second. At the next corner this guy was a little bit to late, hit me and I left the track again due to this hit. And what happened? I received a slow down penalty, he passed me and stayed in front, although he caused the collision. So I was punished twice for this: I lost time while I was off track and also received a penalty after getting back on the track. Big dislike on my side.

And sorry for the bad writing, english isnt my native language.

LiveWire
27-07-2015, 19:03
For me it is a simple matter of realism, slowdown penalties don't exist in real life, for good reason.

F2kSel
27-07-2015, 21:49
For me it is a simple matter of realism, slowdown penalties don't exist in real life, for good reason.

Usually they have to slow due to off track conditions (real grass is slippy) and when coming back onto the track the tires or colder and dirty so are slower through the next couple of turns, sometimes they get punctures.

A slight adjustment that I think would help would be to slow the car down slowly giving other cars some time to react.

Taner
28-07-2015, 07:50
I agree with guys who say cut-track penalty should be through-pit or stop-go. There should be app countdown your track cuts, when you reach to the limit you have to be charged the penalty. There is no need to re-explore America land. It is obvious and tried ways about penalty system. If you point out you created sim, so which head could put such a Super Mario Cart rule 5 seconds reduced speed on saphalt. It is not acceptable and even arguable for a simracer. We want simrace not arcade! That is so clear! Please get simrace, also pit way driving must be manual. Come on guys, dont make simracers give up Project cars. As you promised, turn it to a real sim not arcade!

xautos
28-07-2015, 10:17
Or the car should be ghosted, so that others can drive thru it if given a penalty.
And speaking of ghosted, I can't tell you how many times I've wiped out avoiding a wreck, when I didn't have to because the car coming out of the pits was still ghosted.
Is there any way to tell if a car is ghosted or not? There should be some markings that distinguish it from a non ghosted car, but I never looked or noticed.

what happens if another car is coming through, that player ghosted decides to stand on their line at the last moment of ghosting, suddenly you end up in an accident? no the penalty should be applied after the race instead, total up these 5, 10, 15 second penalities at the end of the race an set the record straight at the end. this whole 5 second penalty putting a car on a track driving dangerously slow, especially in blind high speed corners like eau rouge at the to for example is even more reckless then a driver racing bad. its not just a penalty to the driver in question, but to everyone else having a moving chicane on the track.

Stocky
28-07-2015, 14:34
what happens if another car is coming through, that player ghosted decides to stand on their line at the last moment of ghosting, suddenly you end up in an accident? no the penalty should be applied after the race instead, total up these 5, 10, 15 second penalities at the end of the race an set the record straight at the end. this whole 5 second penalty putting a car on a track driving dangerously slow, especially in blind high speed corners like eau rouge at the to for example is even more reckless then a driver racing bad. its not just a penalty to the driver in question, but to everyone else having a moving chicane on the track.

I mentioned this in a follow up post, and this is only a solution if we are stuck with on track timed penalties, and not if we should have them or not.
It's not about just being ghosted, it's also about other drivers seeing clearly that a car is ghosted, and how much time is left on the ghost.
As it stands now, opponent names are impossible to read, but if that's fixed, they could put a ghost timer on it in place of the ping rate that's there now.
Also, the ghost should slowly come out of being faded, to give another clear, visual clue to a car that's ghosted, and how long he has left so you can make a decision on how to handle it.
Look at my reply on page 1 of this thread, it explains better.

EvilM0nk3y
28-07-2015, 17:35
I mentioned this in a follow up post, and this is only a solution if we are stuck with on track timed penalties, and not if we should have them or not.
It's not about just being ghosted, it's also about other drivers seeing clearly that a car is ghosted, and how much time is left on the ghost.
As it stands now, opponent names are impossible to read, but if that's fixed, they could put a ghost timer on it in place of the ping rate that's there now.
Also, the ghost should slowly come out of being faded, to give another clear, visual clue to a car that's ghosted, and how long he has left so you can make a decision on how to handle it.
Look at my reply on page 1 of this thread, it explains better.

That ruins the sim aspect for me. I'd prefer time penalties and drive-thru for repeated cuts.

Stocky
28-07-2015, 19:31
That ruins the sim aspect for me. I'd prefer time penalties and drive-thru for repeated cuts.

Well, people crashing into everyone at the start ruins the simulation for me.
People sitting in the turn sideways ruins the simulation for me.
People driving backwards ruins the simulation for me.

An online track penalty, does not ruin the simulation for me.

If SMS figures the best way to assess a timed penalty is on the track, then I will deal with it. It's certainly not going to ruin my experience, the game, or the simulation like the other situations I mentioned above does.
And if they take measures to make that ghost easily spotted and you know how much time you have, then I consider it a non factor.

Everyone posts that this or that ruins the simulation. Let's not exaggerate these, and they are in no way in the same league as some of the other issues (mentioned above). And if the car is ghosted upon penalty, and I drive right through him, what skin is it off my back? Or if I see he's ghosted, but fading in, and I take measures to avoid him, again, what skin is it off my back? Or if he's fully faded, I don't have to worry about it at all.

LiveWire
28-07-2015, 19:51
The thing is the slowdown was added towards the end of development, so it is code that can probably be removed easily.

Less code equals a simpler, more reliable code. Ghosting would be more code to go wrong. They already have the code to evaluate if you earned a penalty or not, although it is far from perfect. It has to be easier code to add a time penalty at the end than to ghost a car.

The easiest solution, that I feel would satisfy the most users, would be to make slowdowns a server side option, just like penalties.

Stocky
28-07-2015, 19:55
The thing is the slowdown was added towards the end of development, so it is code that can probably be removed easily.

Less code equals a simpler, more reliable code. Ghosting would be more code to go wrong. They already have the code to evaluate if you earned a penalty or not, although it is far from perfect. It has to be easier code to add a time penalty at the end than to ghost a car.

The easiest solution, that I feel would satisfy the most users, would be to make slowdowns a server side option, just like penalties.

I agree with you. I'd rather another way to do the penalties.
My suggestion is only if we're stuck with them.

EvilM0nk3y
28-07-2015, 19:58
Well, people crashing into everyone at the start ruins the simulation for me.
People sitting in the turn sideways ruins the simulation for me.
People driving backwards ruins the simulation for me.

An online track penalty, does not ruin the simulation for me.


Those aren't really related to this issue. This issue assumes all racers are competitive and having good race and one person has to gone off line in a turn to avoid a collision and has been handed a penalty, those behind ram him because of the unexpected speed differential.

What you're talking about is an underlying issue of lack of respect and/or maturity.

Stocky
28-07-2015, 21:22
Those aren't really related to this issue. This issue assumes all racers are competitive and having good race and one person has to gone off line in a turn to avoid a collision and has been handed a penalty, those behind ram him because of the unexpected speed differential.

What you're talking about is an underlying issue of lack of respect and/or maturity.

No, they're not related to the issue.

I was only trying to stress my point, that this really isn't a simulation ruining thing.
That's the part I took offence to, lol.
It does need to be addressed though, but I'm still racing every night.

Are you the Ev1LMonkey that races with me nightly?

EvilM0nk3y
29-07-2015, 12:41
Are you the Ev1LMonkey that races with me nightly?

Yes, that's me. I'm the Marussia of the pack tho, I'm having a horrible time getting the FA tuned.

Stocky
29-07-2015, 15:39
Lol, and look, I even spelled your name with the "1" instead of an "I" like you have it in game.

Check out the Jack van Hees youtube formula A set ups. They are a much better starting set up, than the defaults. Just fine tune it as needed.

That may help you getting FA better tuned.

And don't sell yourself short. You're not usually at the back of the pack, and I've never heard anyone in our TS3 group, say one bad word about you.

EvilM0nk3y
29-07-2015, 16:33
Haha, didn't even notice.

I'll check out the vids, thanks. I may start to join the TS3, i'm sure there is a lot of useful info being passed around. I'm usually fighting with the car so I let ppl pass. A few races the car felt good, unfortunately the middle grid cars weren't aware of what was around them so i ended up being hit a lot while trying a pass.

I'm interested in what setup (peripherals) you guys are using. Maybe I'll ask in your event planning thread as I'm getting OT here.

Motorhead Racer
01-08-2015, 05:21
Usually they have to slow due to off track conditions (real grass is slippy) and when coming back onto the track the tires or colder and dirty so are slower through the next couple of turns, sometimes they get punctures.

A slight adjustment that I think would help would be to slow the car down slowly giving other cars some time to react.

So what about making the run off areas having a little less grip? although this could cause people to spin out onto track, and create a whole new issue! I know not a cure all though

xautos
02-08-2015, 07:04
ironic, was in a race yesterday at spa, at the start of lap 2 there was this driver in the middle of the road at eau rouge, just as i was coming up the hill with no real warning i ended up right in the back of him, i was not the only one either as a bunch of others also hit him as well. as i mentioned it, it happened days later.

just add the time to the end of the race if a drive through is issued and/or make it a drive through when there is enough repeated cuts and there is enough laps to serve it. drivers need common sense to stay out the way when they are slow and have a penalty..