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CopperySinger5
23-07-2015, 13:34
I have seen many complaints about multiplayer car crashers that will do anything to run players off track. It does make things very irritating when playing online.
But I believe the solution is not the developers (SMS) responsibility.
If anyone has something to add or modify, you are welcome in advance.


I challenge any racer that have at least a tiny bit of respect for racing, to take the training wheels off...

The Project CARS multiplayer community is low in the following player types:

1) players who practiced to race any car including gt3 with no assists on
2) players who practiced to race with cockpit view
3) players who practiced to race with mechanical wear and damage on
4) players who practiced to enjoy the natural experience of tire wear and fuel usage.

I know it may be hard to achieve at first but if you take time and practice each of these suggested requirements it will get you closer to being out of the realm of "THE RACE CRASHERS".

Crashers like lobbies were they can take advantage of Assists to catch you around the corners and get a nice sweet spot on your bumper sending you into the outfield, but at the same time they don't have the skills to hold a steady line on the straights (road hogging). Learning to race without TC including all other assists will make you a more faster and agile racer.

Crashers like fly cam view because it allows them to get a good view to perform mischievous activities, easily watching and waiting for the perfect time to ram you over, if in cockpit they will have no choice but to spend more time watching the road.

Obviously crashers would prefer no damage and mechanical wear, really? because they can simply drive away after they rammed you.

Crashers like non tire wear and fuel usage so their focus could be more attentive to destroying another player's race.

Note: one thing I have noticed is non ABS may seem to make you skid too much at first. But practice will enable you to break later than with ABS on; (quicker to reach the corner)
Another thing, racing with stability management is another form of training wheels that will slow you down when you make a mistake (steering and throttle inaccuracies). Non stability management will help you improve your racing skills and when you spend time tuning your car, you will experience more effects from the tuning results which will eventually improve your gaming experience with Project CARS imo. Finally TC (traction control), It applies training wheels by loosening torque when you are powering down to exit those speeding corners. Non TC can possibly make you spin out on corner exits but will give you the opportunity to take advantage of full torque. Practice exits on your favorite tracks and find the right time to power down; start by gradually accelerating on corner exits with time and practice you will eventually zoom past those rammers giving them minimal time to react on your presence.

Know that many players are well experienced and can race with all of the above requirements. But like myself, some find that too many lobbies are filled with All assists on with the presence of crashers so there is not much choice. I don't expect that more race lobbies will have all driving assists disabled but if we take advantage of these useful tips we will start to see a larger quantity of more experienced racers which will result to less rammers.



I hope this helps and thanks for reading.

Pink_650S
23-07-2015, 14:10
When l read 'ultimate', l really expected THE solution!
But no aids? That wont stop them from wrecking, unfortunately.

chig88
23-07-2015, 14:22
I fear that these idiots would enjoy ruining an event full of serious racers even more than they do the ones filled with casual gamers.

Unless SMS are able to come up with something to deter them (not sure what), we might just have to wait until a mindless, easy to play AAA title is released that they can revert to. Put simply; they will eventually get bored & move on.

The sooner the better.

LiveWire
23-07-2015, 14:46
I fear that these idiots would enjoy ruining an event full of serious racers even more than they do the ones filled with casual gamers.

Unless SMS are able to come up with something to deter them (not sure what), we might just have to wait until a mindless, easy to play AAA title is released that they can revert to. Put simply; they will eventually get bored & move on.

The sooner the better.

From a PC player's point of view:
If the kick vote worked better (read: Admin can kick instantly) and the server admin could blacklist them without restarting the server, that would be a start. Eventually they wouldn't be able to play because they would be blacklisted by so many servers. Currently it uses their unique steam id, which I believe is tied to the game ownership, so they couldn't just change their name or IP to get back in. Also, having a server admin file, like the black and white lists, so that only admins get control of the dedicated server would be helpful.

MABlosfeld
23-07-2015, 14:51
My suggestion:
Create Profile based on two options:
1) Custom: here you can change everything
2) Real: 100% simulator
ONLINE on the screen have two options:
1) Custom: here you can change everything
2) Real: 100% simulator
Using the information available in REPUTATION to filter out pilots with low reputation.

pCars has all the tools we need to learn to use them properly.

The idea is so simple that it's stupid, I know.

nono782
23-07-2015, 15:28
Poor hosts, they can't see everything.
Instead of racing they would have to cope with : "this guy crashed me, no it's wrong he crashed me first..."
Give rammers automatic penalties, even if there is a little chance regular racers get them once in a while.
It can't be worse than it is now anyway.

NutsMammoth
23-07-2015, 15:32
I am not a race crasher and I am a clean driver.
Of course I hate rammers and disrespectful selfish drivers.

I agree with you on everything except about the assists :)
I don't force the asssists in my settings, only Real Assists is set to On.

If I join a lobby with all assists forced to on, I disable the assists that are not available on the real car (for example, I disable the TC on the BMW Z4 GT3).
The real BMW Z4 GT3 has the ABS and the Stability Control (Dynamic Stability Control developed by BMW) only. So I drive this car with these two assists only.
For me, Real Assists = Realistic. I drive in cockpit view only too.

But I can drive with all assists off too. I raced several times on lobbies with all assists forced to off.

Now everyone is free to drive with assists on or off :)

Otherwise, I agree with you about the cockpit view, mechanical wear, damage on, the natural experience of tire wear and fuel usage :)

Anyway, SMS should actually do something about the online mode as soon as possible in order to have less race crashers
(better and fair penalty system, commands for admins...).
Even the Online Lobby browser should be improved. I am tired to join each lobby in order to check what are the race settings and restrictions.
All race settings/restrictions should be displayed directly on the Online Lobby browser.

Bruusie
23-07-2015, 15:39
From a PC player's point of view:
If the kick vote worked better (read: Admin can kick instantly) and the server admin could blacklist them without restarting the server, that would be a start. Eventually they wouldn't be able to play because they would be blacklisted by so many servers. Currently it uses their unique steam id, which I believe is tied to the game ownership, so they couldn't just change their name or IP to get back in. Also, having a server admin file, like the black and white lists, so that only admins get control of the dedicated server would be helpful.

Agree with the admin Kick...and why is online reputation still registering nothing? I play WGT online and whoever instigates the round can kick players before match starts, normally based on their visible reputation to complete a round...works well.

MrFlibble81
23-07-2015, 16:16
Is this going to turn in to another "I race with no assists so I'm better than you" & "it's not 'sim' if you use assists" thread again?

since that's what the OP did yesterday....

Fight-Test
23-07-2015, 16:20
I am not a race crasher and I am a clean driver.
Of course I hate rammers and disrespectful selfish drivers.

I agree with you on everything except about the assists :)
I don't force the asssists in my settings, only Real Assists is set to On.

If I join a lobby with all assists forced to on, I disable the assists that are not available on the real car (for example, I disable the TC on the BMW Z4 GT3).
The real BMW Z4 GT3 has the ABS and the Stability Control (Dynamic Stability Control developed by BMW) only. So I drive this car with these two assists only.
For me, Real Assists = Realistic. I drive in cockpit view only too.

But I can drive with all assists off too. I raced several times on lobbies with all assists forced to off.

Now everyone is free to drive with assists on or off :)

Otherwise, I agree with you about the cockpit view, mechanical wear, damage on, the natural experience of tire wear and fuel usage :)

Anyway, SMS should actually do something about the online mode as soon as possible in order to have less race crashers
(better and fair penalty system, commands for admins...).
Even the Online Lobby browser should be improved. I am tired to join each lobby in order to check what are the race settings and restrictions.
All race settings/restrictions should be displayed directly on the Online Lobby browser.

Ok so on the GT3's their is some confusion. The year the car if from had all assist including traction control. 2015 does not allow stability control. 2016 (maybe its 17, been reading to much about rule changes to remember) they will bring back all assists to allow the cars to be run closer to the commercial versions of the car and keep racing closer. Less assist = more margin of error = more spread out racing = boring. I will check the rules again but pretty sure it was next year that they are bringing back all assists.

EDIT: FIA GT3 2016 rules will allow TC and ABS starting 2016 along with factory assists (?? im guessing any assist system on the real car will be allowed on the racing car)

MABlosfeld
23-07-2015, 16:20
I have the impression that developers will not change the filter system because in their view there is no problem.

Fight-Test
23-07-2015, 16:21
Is this going to turn in to another "I race with no assists so I'm better than you" & "it's not 'sim' if you use assists" thread again?

since that's what the OP did yesterday....

most likely as he tried to take jabs already. Just don't feed it!!

OperatorWay
23-07-2015, 21:39
So this "solution" for trolling multiplayer rammers is to restrict the game's configurable options/settings in such a way as to severely limit the game's accessibility to only a tiny audience/market?

Sorry bud, but if you want to actually have more than a small handful of people to play the game with, you'll have to accept the fact that not everyone plays their game(s) with all of the same exact settings that you use.

Not everyone who uses assists or external camera views is a crashing rammer.

Not everyone who disables all assists & drives from the cockpit camera is a clean racer.

I suspect we may start seeing some more lobbies with tire wear, damage, fuel usage, and/or mechanical failures enabled after more of the game's widely-reported pit stop bugs/issues are resolved, as it's been a roll-of-the-dice trying to make good use of the pits.


The simplest solutions for trolling lobby rammers are:

• Give public lobby hosts the ability to kick players from a lobby without a vote at any time (even in the middle of a live event).

• Automatically ghost cars that are stationary or facing/moving the wrong direction on a track.

Those 2 features alone wouldn't fix everything, but combined they'd address quite a lot with a relatively minor amount of work.

DoctorKajita
23-07-2015, 21:58
The solution is to join an organized league or community that has officials to manage and enforce violations.

Ehem...http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?33436-TAW-net-Project-CARS-Division

OperatorWay
23-07-2015, 22:03
The solution is to join an organized league or community that has officials to manage and enforce violations.

Ehem...http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?33436-TAW-net-Project-CARS-Division

...


...The actual organised racing part constitutes 3% of our users. The people who are part of such don't seem to know that but it's the truth. The very vast majority of users are those who like to hop in and out of an online race now and again, maybe add a few friends. For this reason we've been prioritising work in that area...

CopperySinger5
23-07-2015, 23:08
I know some may disagree that GT3 class cars are not realistic with all assists off. However, the assists are there to slow you down before you make an inaccurate movement. We see in real racing many of those GT racers are bunched up really close leaving very little margin of error; this is when traction control is applied to prevent constant collisions. Practicing the game without these settings will decrease your margin of error.

Lets examine the characteristics of a rammer:
Are they experienced or not? I would assume that they are not experience enough to compete in a clean race or even be inclined to practice my suggestions. Very seldom does an experienced player decide to go rouge and start ramming, but it does happen and it's not gonna be pretty when it does. But sometimes you get the rammer who thinks they are good racers but will do anything to prevent getting passes by other faster racers. smh.

Why do they ram? Well, that can be rather complex because you have people who are fairly new at racing sims and unintentionally cause havoc on the track but we don't want to make them feel exempt from the game they purchased. Also, some rammers buy the game specifically to cause chaos online with destruction and thrills; again we don't want them to feel blocked from the game either.

In my experiences, kicking shaming ramming or personal attacks are all in the same category and I believe it should not be implemented in this game.

I would like to view a more diplomatic perspective and my explanation doesn't say "locked lobbies for VIP's only" but it simply encourages players who have difficulties in races to practice new skills because being stuck behind battling with rammers is no fun. These skills will only increase your chances of getting away from danger on the track.

By learning to race with all assists off you will have more options when entering lobbies because you will have the necessary practice to compete anywhere in the game. But by all means, if those feel strongly about your assists, use them.

CopperySinger5
24-07-2015, 11:55
When l read 'ultimate', l really expected THE solution!
But no aids? That wont stop them from wrecking, unfortunately.

But I think it will certainly make it harder for them to catch you past the first corner. This method will limit their opportunities. Again driving aids does a lot of work for you but if you manage to run without driving aids, you will have the advantage to get away from them.

chig88
24-07-2015, 12:40
But I think it will certainly make it harder for them to catch you past the first corner. This method will limit their opportunities. Again driving aids does a lot of work for you but if you manage to run without driving aids, you will have the advantage to get away from them.

Problem is that they can simply wait for you to come around on the next lap & smash you off.

CopperySinger5
24-07-2015, 12:47
I fear that these idiots would enjoy ruining an event full of serious racers even more than they do the ones filled with casual gamers.

Unless SMS are able to come up with something to deter them (not sure what), we might just have to wait until a mindless, easy to play AAA title is released that they can revert to. Put simply; they will eventually get bored & move on.

The sooner the better.
yes, Ruining a serious race would be rammers dream. I remember the rammers were very bothersome for some people in Forza 4. Everyone had options to use any assists they wanted and elite players running without aids were too busy lapping everyone, while those using assists were stuck battling the rammers. There was a scarce problem with rammers in GT6 because most lobbies had options to limit the use of assists. With Project CARS, the mainstream are using driving aids which makes it a field day for rammers. This is why I believe SMS have no Immediate solution; so at some point we will begin to realize as a whole gaming community what we tend to do to make things harder for ourselves.

Im going to be upfront about this, when I play online with others using assists, it's mostly kicks giggles. And there is many players in the lobby but not many to get a nice race with.
If you convert to non assists lobbies you will begin to see more respectful players that will be glad to give you a "nice race" or "good game" pm message. But sadly, these lobbies are very low in numbers and some of them have gone on to enter their own racing leagues.

Listen, If any of you racers feel that racing with steering or braking assistance slows you down, I promise you will feel the same way once you turn all the other driving aids off. And if you find that you can achieve a satisfying position in the online races, why not try non assists lobbies.

CopperySinger5
24-07-2015, 13:02
Problem is that they can simply wait for you to come around on the next lap & smash you off.

Yep, there is not much you can do against those dangerous players, but it is a learning experience though. However, turning that green racing line off will help improve spacial sense and awareness of your surroundings. That line will tend to limit you to a sort of tunnel vision and when the rammer pops out at you it is too late. And be aware that some of those rammers are highly experienced players there to teach you a lesson.

Pink_650S
24-07-2015, 17:04
But I think it will certainly make it harder for them to catch you past the first corner. This method will limit their opportunities. Again driving aids does a lot of work for you but if you manage to run without driving aids, you will have the advantage to get away from them.

They will just wait for you on the side of the road until you completed another lap, only to crash you.

Oops! :p


Problem is that they can simply wait for you to come around on the next lap & smash you off.

Ptyochromis
24-07-2015, 19:34
They will just wait for you on the side of the road until you completed another lap, only to crash you.

Oops! :p

Why not just auto-kick people that are idle during a race for X amount of time?

About rammers, why not just add time to their final race time as a 'contact penalty' or give a speed penalty like they do with track cutting?

Stevesixty7
24-07-2015, 19:35
Problem is that they can simply wait for you to come around on the next lap & smash you off.

That's exactly what happened to me once when leading at Spa, the wrecker parked it broadside at the top of Eau Rouge, I only saw him when on the crest and no way could I avoid him. Absolutely detestable people.

RTA nOsKiLlS
24-07-2015, 20:08
I use chase cam, because I always have, and because it allows me to see all round my car. Therefore, who is anywhere near me.

I like no mechanical failures, its a game, I want to race, not suffer breakdowns. Same for tyre wear and fuel.

I like to have visual only damage, that way, if I get taken out, I dont need to limp to the pits.

I use assists, They make you faster. 1st started playing the game with only ABS, and had people just smoking me through the turns, people who had on other games been slower than me. So I put the assists on, and abracadabra I can nail the turns too!


If you want to improve multiplayer, give the host the option to kick.

Improve the chase camera looking left and right, its VERY hard to look and see to the sides, as the camera pans round rather than instantly showing the player whats on the left or right. (If I look left, I dont want to see the right side of my car, I just want to look left for a split second. Im in a race!)

Why people have this obsession with no assists I will never understand. If you want to use them, do so. If you don't, your clearly better than the ones using them, so just smoke em! ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up7pvPqNkuU

CopperySinger5
25-07-2015, 00:20
Ain't Hate'n (I cool with it) if that's what you do.

Heehaw4x4
25-07-2015, 03:16
I use chase cam, because I always have, and because it allows me to see all round my car. Therefore, who is anywhere near me. "I think you missed the point here"

I like no mechanical failures, its a game, I want to race, not suffer breakdowns. "Why you keep breaking down?"

I like to have visual only damage, that way, if I get taken out, I dont need to limp to the pits. "No. both assists drivers get to limp to the pits".

I use assists, They make you faster. "Someone need to tel 'em something... Assists will make people who don't know how to drive without it go faster".

If you want to improve multiplayer, give the host the option to kick. "What if the host was a rammer? No that won't work. Too much dictatorship to be putting those kinds of privileges in the game even if the host was legit."

Why people have this obsession with no assists... just
smoke em!... "pure SkiLls and Mastery in racing games is your answer."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up7pvPqNkuU


Ill use no assists. kicked those off long time ago. live and learn.

NutsMammoth
25-07-2015, 13:57
Once again race over (GT3, Road America) during the 1st lap because of a rammer in a lobby with all assists forced to off.
I was 4th (need more training and now I have a T300RS instead a Logitech Momo :)).
A player pushed me just enough to lose the control of my car on a straight line.
There was enough space to overtake me but no, just push, problem solved.
It seems that he's rammed two other drivers before leaving after 2 laps.

So it seems that some rammers have not afraid with all assists off.
They can be good drivers driving with all assists off.
It's just that they are disrespectful to other drivers.

The solution could be private dedicated servers open to the public (no password protected).
The admin watches the multiplayer replay (well, once fixed :confused:) in order to blacklist rammers and race crashers on his server.
I know that rammers/race crashers are customers too, but a dedicated server is private, even open to public.
So a dedicated server should be allowed to block some players with bad reputation.
We could have clean dedicated servers without rammers/race crashers.

- Dedicated servers.
- Blacklisting feature for admins.
- Multiplayer replays (once fixed ...) to help admins.
- Customers ramming and crashing races can still play on other public lobbies.

awaite85
25-07-2015, 19:59
I've noticed jumping in rooms with no assists and full damage are very clean rooms.

+1

C. Banger
25-07-2015, 23:21
There are definitely rammers - but sometimes I think it's down to server syncing problems.

MABlosfeld
28-07-2015, 00:32
I use chase cam, because I always have, and because it allows me to see all round my car. Therefore, who is anywhere near me.

I like no mechanical failures, its a game, I want to race, not suffer breakdowns. Same for tyre wear and fuel.

I like to have visual only damage, that way, if I get taken out, I dont need to limp to the pits.

I use assists, They make you faster. 1st started playing the game with only ABS, and had people just smoking me through the turns, people who had on other games been slower than me. So I put the assists on, and abracadabra I can nail the turns too!


If you want to improve multiplayer, give the host the option to kick.

Improve the chase camera looking left and right, its VERY hard to look and see to the sides, as the camera pans round rather than instantly showing the player whats on the left or right. (If I look left, I dont want to see the right side of my car, I just want to look left for a split second. Im in a race!)

Why people have this obsession with no assists I will never understand. If you want to use them, do so. If you don't, your clearly better than the ones using them, so just smoke em! ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up7pvPqNkuU

to each his own, that's all!!!

CopperySinger5
29-07-2015, 11:39
to each his own, that's all!!!

As I stated in the thread, any amendments or helpful comments for people dealing with rammers are always welcome. But If you don't want to be resourceful, it will not help anyone.

Heehaw4x4
29-07-2015, 11:57
You can keep your steering and braking assists, no one will be upset.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbVhdNuD6Hk

But my style is with no assistance, on the track.

Jakob
29-07-2015, 12:08
I consider wreckers to be like suicide bombers, if they can only manage to take one guy out, no matter what assists are on or full damage on or off, they're happy.

If they're car gets wrecked from taking another driver out and it's not driveable, they'll just limp to a blind spot on the track an sit in the middle of it. I've seen it all, as everyone else who plays online probably has to.

MABlosfeld
29-07-2015, 16:01
As I stated in the thread, any amendments or helpful comments for people dealing with rammers are always welcome. But If you don't want to be resourceful, it will not help anyone.

He called us hypocrites for trying to be creative
I tried to be objective without offending but agree that it was not creative, sorry.

Heehaw4x4
30-07-2015, 09:36
He called us hypocrites for trying to be creative
I tried to be objective without offending but agree that it was not creative, sorry.


This is the first racing sim I have seen with working Motec displays in every car. Very Creative. using flycam instead? Not Creative. but you say to each his own. thats fine. but to ones using assists and bragging about how good racers they are, and are not using all of the creativities in the game are the same ones shouting "Hpocrites" and claim they know what creativity is.

hostaman
30-07-2015, 12:05
Is this going to turn in to another "I race with no assists so I'm better than you" & "it's not 'sim' if you use assists" thread again?

since that's what the OP did yesterday....

Sounds like it to me.

I prefer to race with assists on because I have more fun that way. I also use the follow CAM as I actually find cockpit CAM less realistic due to the lack of peripheral vision.

It may surprise some that I'm NOT a rammer, its also time that some accepted that without the accessibility granted by assists, multiple CAMs, racing line guide etc. the game would be a flop and there would be no PCars 2.

I show no disrespect to the pure sim racers so I don't expect disrespect in return just because I prefer to play a more arcade feel.

Heehaw4x4
30-07-2015, 12:50
Sounds like it to me.

I prefer to race with assists on because I have more fun that way. I also use the follow CAM as I actually find cockpit CAM less realistic due to the lack of peripheral vision.

It may surprise some that I'm NOT a rammer, its also time that some accepted that without the accessibility granted by assists, multiple CAMs, racing line guide etc. the game would be a flop and there would be no PCars 2.

I show no disrespect to the pure sim racers so I don't expect disrespect in return just because I prefer to play a more arcade feel.



Don't worry I won't disrespect you here, but I would not advise you expecting them to rid of the rammers while you insist on making it easy for the rammers to get you.

RTA nOsKiLlS
30-07-2015, 20:47
All we need is for the host to be able to kick these idiots, and at the same time, that kick, bans them from the lobby for 24 hours. Thats how most games do it.

Then dickheads like the one featured in this video, wont be able to ruin people's fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlasAoUFZ4

mcs1981
30-07-2015, 21:45
The only assist I use is ABS cause it's damn hard feeling the brakes right on a controller.. I hate rammers aswell and just want a clean race for everyone. Of those few races I've had online with really clean people on PS4, those races have also been epic fun :) It's so much more fun to respect your opponent and race clean so I don't understand why not more people do it instead of ramming...

MrFlibble81
30-07-2015, 21:52
The only assist I use is ABS cause it's damn hard feeling the brakes right on a controller.. I hate rammers aswell and just want a clean race for everyone. Of those few races I've had online with really clean people on PS4, those races have also been epic fun :) It's so much more fun to respect your opponent and race clean so I don't understand why not more people do it instead of ramming...

Because some people have zero patience. Racing is a patient sport in that you may have to follow your opponent around the circuit for a lap or two figuring exactly where you're quicker than they are before you make your move.

And some people just want instant results.

Also some people just want to watch the world burn.....