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AfterAll14
23-07-2015, 15:28
Multiplayer section is full of threads like "Ultimate solution for cleaning multiplayer".
We all know that online has some problems.
I'm going to propose something, I'm quite sure you will not listen to me, and not many people would understand what I'm talking about, plus to do this you'll have to rewrite the whole net code. But this is something I experienced in other online racing and it worked very well. It's not only about setting some rules about ramming, it's much more about relationship between people playing online and longevity of the game.

So here it is:

1. Human admins.
There is no mathematical system to determine fair rules (ramming, cutting and so on)
No matter how hard you trying to make perfect online code - it doesn't work. We need to have human admins that can ban people for doing bad things. Admin status should be given to fair and morally stable people who often play online.
Edit: and it's not only about ramming/cutting. It's also about behaviour - swearing, attitude to other people.

2. Constant official servers divided into categories - GT3, LMP, FA, FB and so on.
Right now if you create lobby some random players join, when race ends - people quit, you quit - you lose them. I recently played with some fair guys, I liked to play with them, I want to play with them again, but I have no Idea how to find them. When I enter online it's just a bunch of random lobbies created by random people. I have no idea how good they are. When I join some lobby - it's just a lottery ticket. I tried adding them to friends, but it's too difficult to find out when they are going to play time matches me going to play. So it doesn't work.
If you play same server you will often see same players on it. It is the way to establish relationships between players.
It's also good because players will get admin rights for a certain server, every server will have its own leaders and regular players. That will help to establish social system structure.

3. Vote system to determine race length, track and other conditions.
In the end of every race you get a list of tracks for next race and vote. Simple and fair to everyone.

4. Top times integrated into online racing servers.
Element of motivation for personal improvement. If you are doing 2.15 on some track and you see that some guy in race did it in 2.13 it makes you push harder, even if you are leading by mile.
We also may introduce some sort of records for 10 lap race, or 5 lap race, record for qualy and so on.

5. I also would like some sort of team speak to ease conversation during the race...
But it looks like it's an issue for PC version only.

You can see by yourself how all this works in game called MTA - multi theft auto. It's a mod based on GTA san andreas for multiplayer. It has racing mode. I was racing there for years.
And it's not a sim, not even a proper racing arcade. But the level of competition and communication at it's boiling point - back in 2009-2012 - was insane. And even now it's still alive, though the game is 10 years old.
So after all it's probably the best way to create good online - copy something that already works.

Bruusie
23-07-2015, 15:43
Multiplayer section is full of threads like "Ultimate solution for cleaning multiplayer".
We all know that online has some problems.
I'm going to propose something, I'm quite sure you will not listen to me, and not many people would understand what I'm talking about, plus to do this you'll have to rewrite the whole net code. But this is something I experienced in other online racing and it worked very well. It's not only about setting some rules about ramming, it's much more about relationship between people playing online and longevity of the game.

So here it is:

1. Human admins.
There is no mathematical system to determine fair rules (ramming, cutting and so on)...worked OK on TOCA! Not perfect but a great help
No matter how hard you trying to make perfect online code - it doesn't work. We need to have human admins that can ban people for doing bad things. Admin status should be given to fair and morally stable people who often play online.

2. Constant official servers divided into categories - GT3, LMP, FA, FB and so on.
Right now if you create lobby some random players join, when race ends - people quit, you quit - you lose them. I recently played with some fair guys, I liked to play with them, I want to play with them again, but I have no Idea how to find them. When I enter online it's just a bunch of random lobbies created by random people. I have no idea how good they are. When I join some lobby - it's just a lottery ticket. I tried adding them to friends, but it's too difficult to find out when they are going to play time matches me going to play. So it doesn't work.
If you play same server you will often see same players on it. It is the way to establish relationships between players.
It's also good because players will get admin rights for a certain server, every server will have its own leaders and regular players. That will help to establish social system structure.

3. Vote system to determine race length, track and other conditions. Like this...similar to Counter Strike
In the end of every race you get a list of tracks for next race and vote. Simple and fair to everyone.

4. Top times integrated into online racing servers. Nice one too
Element of motivation for personal improvement. If you are doing 2.15 on some track and you see that some guy in race did it in 2.13 it makes you push harder, even if you are leading by mile.
We also may introduce some sort of records for 10 lap race, or 5 lap race, record for qualy and so on.

5. I also would like some sort of team speak to ease conversation during the race...
But it looks like it's an issue for PC version only.

You can see by yourself how all this works in game called MTA - multi theft auto. It's a mod based on GTA san andreas for multiplayer. It has racing mode. I was racing there for years.
And it's not a sim, not even a proper racing arcade. But the level of competition and communication at it's boiling point - back in 2009-2012 - was insane. And even now it's still alive, though the game is 10 years old.
So after all it's probably the best way to create good online - copy something that already works.

Some good points here

AlanK
23-07-2015, 16:29
I'm all for no 2 in particular (and no 5), and regrettably I don't think suggestions that we all just wait for the twits to move on are going to pan out. I'd guess noobies (who have yet to work out which button applies the brakes) make up a high percentage of new sales of the game, and malevolent rammers only a small percentage. If the first bend pile ups stopped happening I should think the good folk at SMS would be in a right old panic, as it would surely mean the game had stopped selling. I reckon mandatory steering and braking assistance for e.g. the first ten public online races would clear up a lot of the mess and leave the deliberate rammers very exposed.

MrFlibble81
23-07-2015, 16:35
I'm all for no 2 in particular (and no 5), and regrettably I don't think suggestions that we all just wait for the twits to move on are going to pan out. I'd guess noobies (who have yet to work out which button applies the brakes) make up a high percentage of new sales of the game, and malevolent rammers only a small percentage. If the first bend pile ups stopped happening I should think the good folk at SMS would be in a right old panic, as it would surely mean the game had stopped selling. I reckon mandatory steering and braking assistance for e.g. the first ten public online races would clear up a lot of the mess and leave the deliberate rammers very exposed.

Taking control away from the player for that length of time is probably not something SMS would want to do. I like the idea though!

AfterAll14
23-07-2015, 17:13
I'm all for no 2 in particular (and no 5), and regrettably I don't think suggestions that we all just wait for the twits to move on are going to pan out. I'd guess noobies (who have yet to work out which button applies the brakes) make up a high percentage of new sales of the game, and malevolent rammers only a small percentage. If the first bend pile ups stopped happening I should think the good folk at SMS would be in a right old panic, as it would surely mean the game had stopped selling. I reckon mandatory steering and braking assistance for e.g. the first ten public online races would clear up a lot of the mess and leave the deliberate rammers very exposed.

I don't think it's right to force steering assists. That's rude.
But it can be done another way: by forcing player to pass some sort of driving exams to get licence for playing online.

NutsMammoth
23-07-2015, 19:16
This is very interesting.

But the human admin is racing too.
A "smart" car crasher can be clean during the practice and the qualifying, waiting to crash the race.
The admin is racing too, so to ban the car crasher, the admin must stop his car during the race, open the admin control panel, select and ban the car crasher.
Close the admin control panel and go back to his car.
Well, the race is already over for the admin and the damage is done, the car crasher has almost ruined the race.

You should have race stewards, so people not racing but monitoring the race, which is impossible.
Even if this feature is added by SMS, nobody will want to be a race steward, everybody wants to race.

The only solution are private races (have a clean drivers list and race with them only in password protected lobbies, join one or several leagues...).

AfterAll14
23-07-2015, 20:01
This is very interesting.

But the human admin is racing too.
A "smart" car crasher can be clean during the practice and the qualifying, waiting to crash the race.
The admin is racing too, so to ban the car crasher, the admin must stop his car during the race, open the admin control panel, select and ban the car crasher.
Close the admin control panel and go back to his car.
Well, the race is already over for the admin and the damage is done, the car crasher has almost ruined the race.

You should have race stewards, so people not racing but monitoring the race, which is impossible.
Even if this feature is added by SMS, nobody will want to be a race steward, everybody wants to race.

The only solution are private races (have a clean drivers list and race with them only in password protected lobbies, join one or several leagues...).

That is why admins need option to watch replays after race and judge based on that.
Private races are not good option for many people. And I'm talking about everyday racing.

norbs
23-07-2015, 22:30
That is why admins need option to watch replays after race and judge based on that.
Private races are not good option for many people. And I'm talking about everyday racing.

But the replay system isnt good enough for league admins to use. You need everyones replay to see the different drivers views.

AfterAll14
23-07-2015, 22:58
But the replay system isnt good enough for league admins to use. You need everyones replay to see the different drivers views.

I said in first post that SMS need to rewrite net code from 0 to do this. I meant that they have to rewrite replays too. It's not as simple. To fix online they need to change the whole concept.