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View Full Version : TX wheel deadzone really dead ?



baz00ka
26-07-2015, 13:07
hey fellas! just got my new TX to replace MadCatz and while FF is way better with TX than MadCatz there is one nagging issue with TX that i hoping someone here can help me to sort out. when no FF is applied to it, lets say going in straight line, any speed, the wheel feels absolutely dead, dunno if this is the right way to explain it but its like there is nothing in my hands its just too light. once FF is applied its great but when it goes back to quiet its this feeling of detachment again. is this something others here have experienced or its just me ? is it related to TX mechanical deadzone or the wheel/rim itself and if so would it be worth it to invest into heavier rim like GT28/GTE ? i have the latest firmware on TX, PC control panel settings are default (75% overall, rest are 100%). in pCars TX is calibrated with 100/900 degrees, FF: 100, tyre force: 64, deadzone: 0, sensitivity: 50, all advanced OFF the rest wheel related are default. tried with deafult deadzone at 1 and tyre force and sensitivity at 100 but it didnt make a difference in this regard. MadCatz while it provided inferior FF both in force and detail did not have this problem. i'm sure it has mechanical deadzone too but because it sits on those gears it never really goes light like the wheel has gone feel when no FF is happening. so is there anything i can do via FF options or otherwise to make it feel more realistic in this regard or this is just how TX works and its a hardware thing ?

Brent G
26-07-2015, 13:21
Project Cars doesn't register feedback for the track surface, thats why when in a straight line on a smooth surface there's no feel from your wheel. Have you tried Jack Spades FFB files? They wont change the above but you will defo get a nicer feel from the FFB.

baz00ka
26-07-2015, 18:50
oh i see, thanx! i thought this game would do this :( i recall an interview with some guy from Turn10/Forza who said they had laser scanned all tracks down to each bump but excluded that from the final game as apparently it made things too challenging/unpredictable. i think even if SMS are not on the same scale budget to laser scan each nook and cranny they could have at least done some random texture for each track because the thing is even if a tack is in brand new perfect condition there is still enough surface roughness/texture/inperfection there to create vibrations, its not like those cars are driving on perfectly glass like surface i mean.

i have tried Jack Spades FFB settings with McLaren F1 because the car is handful, went with 66% set to feel backend a bit better and it does but have you guys here figured how to adjust his settings for TX wheel ? my understanding of it is that he is using Fanatec wheel and some global FFB settings for it then his settings per car are based off of that. plus some values cannot be set exactly on xbox (another bug?). i really dont get to play as much so i try not to spend too much time messing with settings especially given that i dont understand what most of those settings do and how they affect one another.

Schnizz58
26-07-2015, 19:31
You can definitely feel bumps in the tracks, especially the few that were laser-scanned. For example, at Zolder (not laser-scanned) right in the braking zone for the turn just before the back straight (Lucien Biachi) there are a series of bumps that will destabilize the car if you're not careful. It's just that if you're on a very smooth track (Silverstone for example) and you're going dead straight, you won't feel much at all. If you want a little more resistance in that situation, try playing around with the deadzone removal parameters in the FFB settings. Don't go too high though or you'll get a "notch" right at the center position where there is no force but then strong force just off of center.

baz00ka
27-07-2015, 00:59
just to clarify i'm not talking about bumps that throw off steering and i'm not looking for rough feel of an average public road either. there has to be however some liveness/tension/whatever in the wheel and its just aint there. also its not TX wheel that lacks it its the game. if you try going off track with wheel centered there is some FF, if you try to brake hard in straight line there is some FF going on as well. neither throws off steering. so TX can feed FF in center position no problem but the game feeds it nothing because it 'thinks' nothing is going on which is just plain wrong.

had a chance to mess with deadzone removal settings like you suggested but no dice. they do something but have no effect on this whatsoever. cranking them even further seem to make TX go mad as it starts to rock violently side to side. have tried various combos with falloff and in the end just put them both to zero coz it does not seem like what they do makes any sense with TX. based on my experiments i think Brent G is right and this game just does not account for track surface at all so everything is kinda super smooth until you hit one of those pre-programmed bumps or a kerb or something like that far and few in between. until you hit something like that or start turning or brake you are basically driving a spaceship as far as the game physics model is concerned.

i'm not sure devs read this forum anymore after all whining and bitching we put them thru but if they do and are not too busy with pCars2 please address this in future patches, it really spoils immersion and i think it should be super easy to fix with some random roughness generated on the fly kinda hack just enough to make that wheel alive.

jason
27-07-2015, 01:13
I agree some tracks feel alive , with all the bumps and so on and some just feel dead , nothing you feel nothing from some of them and it doesn't feel right.

Its a little off putting going from one track to another as you think your FFB is dialled down , or at least I do sometimes. Certain cars also react completely different so this also needs to be taken into account.

Brent G
27-07-2015, 11:23
Bump's dips crests etc all give feedback signal's, road surface dosen't.

Schnizz58
27-07-2015, 14:40
just to clarify i'm not talking about bumps that throw off steering and i'm not looking for rough feel of an average public road either. there has to be however some liveness/tension/whatever in the wheel and its just aint there.
Well, in that case I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you need to adjust your Fx,y,z and Mz settings. When there is texture to the road surface, I feel it just fine.



this game just does not account for track surface at all so everything is kinda super smooth until you hit one of those pre-programmed bumps or a kerb or something like that far and few in between. until you hit something like that or start turning or brake you are basically driving a spaceship as far as the game physics model is concerned.
Things like bumps and kerbs are not pre-programmed. They are part of the track like everything else.

baz00ka
27-07-2015, 16:20
thanx to everyone replied. dunno how to change thread subject here. it is definitely not a deadzone issue but track surface, or rather lack of it, issue.

@Schnizz which tracks and what sections do you feel road surface in a straight line ? again, i'm not talking bumps or kerbs or things like that that are yes pre-programmed as there is probably a data file for each track and it has those stored statically at their specific locations on the track. i have tried Zolder like you have mentioned, no road surface feel on straights at all. to give you a good idea of what i'm talking about if you can find a place off track where if you drive in straight line slow without surface roughness throwing your steering off you would feel some slight chatter because there is surface roughness off track. there should be also surface roughness on track (its not made of ultra smooth flat glass or something) but to way lesser extent ie no chatter per se but you have to feel some however slight feedback otherwise it feels like the steering is not connected to anything. drive a real car in a straight line and see how steering feels. granted tracks are not the same roughness/texture as public roads but the feel is there. do this in a brand new concrete parking lot which is as smooth as it gets but there is still some feel to it. perhaps i'm asking too much of this game but the rest of feedback from TX feels really good its damn shame this part got overlooked.

Schnizz58
27-07-2015, 18:56
There is some surface roughness on the back straight at Dubai. And no, it isn't pre-programmed. It's derived from the track model as applied to the car physics. If you're on a really smooth track like Silverstone I agree but not all of the tracks are that smooth.

baz00ka
27-07-2015, 20:24
will check out Dubai with few different cars/tyres see if it feels any different. pre-programmed is as in static points from track model. the physics engine would calculate in relation to car static and dynamic variables but the points themselves are pre-programmed as the model of the track surface shape is nor dynamic thats why i said pre-programmed. to fully simulate surface roughness you would need an extremely high res scan of it and alot more realtime dynamic calculations to follow all those static points in relation to dynamic car. this is probably not feasible so what i'm saying is that devs could just generate random noise on the wheel at very low threshold without any pattern to it. when you go off track and drive on sand/grass/whathaveyou no one has actually scanned that grass or sand and its just random shit being thrown at force feedback thru some specific filter or something but it works and feels kinda realistic because we really dont know any better and cant really tell the difference. now come up with a different filter for track surface roughness at very low level barely noticeable force and voila the steering is no longer dead. i'm sure its easier said than done but its not unrealistic thing to ask provided it already works on other surfaces.

Schnizz58
27-07-2015, 20:54
I gotcha. Then Dubai probably isn't what you're looking for either. It's more like small imperfections in the tracks, not "road noise".

baz00ka
27-07-2015, 23:41
thats it, "road noise" would be the right term! i did check that back straight at Dubai and indeed it has that feedback going, not for the entire length of it but that straight overall feels way better/alive than Zolder straights for example where nothing registers at all for the entire length.