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Brent G
02-08-2015, 15:49
After just having a convo with a mate of mine where he told me his 2 month old TX broke yesterday whilst playing Project Cars Im now wondering wether or not its safe to play this title without risking the death of my racing wheel. I've not been playing recently because of the bugs I got with the latest update and the frequent (what I'd call) corrupt FFB. For example if I come of track and hit a barrier my TX goes mental, rotating back and forth like mad. Even when paused it doesn't stop, only on restarting session does it cease but then upon restart the wheel will be 30 ish of centre. Another example is where after returning to garage to tweak the set up in a qualifying session the FFB will be all messed up. Entering a turn will have the wheel 'shaking' like mad or at time jolting so bad it actually hurts your wrist. Returning to garage and resaving the set up cures it, without any further changes to the set up I might add. This tells me one thing, that its the game thats responsible due to the FFB signals being sent to the TX's base. From reading other posts here on the forum it seems that this 'corrupt' feedback is fairly common, even more so since the v.2.0 update. Also it seems others have attributed the death of their wheels to this game. So is Project cars safe to play or does it in fact have a tendency to destroy our racing wheels. I for one would like to know from the developer if in its current state Project cars is capable of braking wheels as I dont have the cash laying around to buy a new one if it does. If there is a problem then tell us, we can then decide wether or not to risk playing. An informed decision for me is a better option than rolling the dice each time I switch project Cars on.

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 15:59
Could you post your steering and FFB settings?

Brent G
02-08-2015, 16:08
Could you post your steering and FFB settings?

Have you got a theory m8? Everything default except soft clip half 0.6 and soft clip full 1.0. Tyre force 50, FFB 100. Jacks 66% chart and my wheels DZ 0 and sensitivity 80.

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 16:15
I don't really have a theory but I figured I'd try to help if there was something obvious. The first thing I'd do is set sensitivity to 50. The reason is that values greater than 50 make the steering more sensitive at low angles and less sensitive at high angles. Values below 50 do the opposite. 50 makes it linear. Look at the curves below, 50 will be like the green curve and 80 will be more like the blue or purple one.

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/nir8xq2zXa6alwXbSkjqDQ--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NDgwO3E9OTU7dz02NDA-/http://www.leptonica.com/figs/gamma-correction.png

Brent G
02-08-2015, 16:41
But that wouldn't answer why for the best part the TX works fine, surely if steering sensitvity was an issue it would manifest itself constantly and not only when a set up has been saved during a session. Its seems to me that when the set up is saved there is some sort of corruption to the save file because a resave of the very same settings will have the FFB working in a correct manner again. It wouldn't answer why the wheel would continue to suffer this bad FFB when in the pause menu either, surely if the games paused no signals should be sent to the base as the car isn't moving.

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 16:50
Sorry, I thought you were having a constant problem. It's well known that the FFB goes nuts every now and then. We already have a thread for that so I thought you were bringing up something new. In general, car settings are not always saved and restored correctly and this could just be another manifestation of that problem.

I'd still lower the sensitivity though. That can't be helping things when you crash into a wall.

nissan4ever
02-08-2015, 16:59
Brent G you really need to have your soft clipping half & full at 0.0 after patch 2.0, period. That's your problem right there. My TX does none of the things after patch 2.0, that's described by some on these forums. It has to be the settings ya'll are using.

All my deadzones are 0. All sensitivity are all 50, except throttle is like 30 or 40. FFB is 100. On the screen with Tire Force, my tire force is around 60. Everything else is default except relative adjust gain is 1.10.

It doesn't matter if my cars are on game default per car FFB settings or I'm using Jack Spade's Spreadsheet. I don't experience what some of you do.

So, I do not think Project CARS is a FFB killer at all.

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 17:04
What could soft clipping be doing that's causing this?

Brent G
02-08-2015, 17:06
Sorry, I thought you were having a constant problem. It's well known that the FFB goes nuts every now and then. We already have a thread for that so I thought you were bringing up something new. In general, car settings are not always saved and restored correctly and this could just be another manifestation of that problem.

I'd still lower the sensitivity though. That can't be helping things when you crash into a wall.

Basically I want to know if the bad FFB were getting has the ability to break our wheels. I started a new thread as all the ones I read in regards to this issue didn't have any comments from the devs at to what is the cause. So I wanted if possible to get a definitive answer as to wether in its current state our wheels are at risk. I dont want you, myself or anyone else for that matter to end up with a dead TX like a couple of my friends have had while playing pCars. At least if we know theres the possibilty we have the choice to stop using our wheels till any issues are fixed. To be honest its the frequency in which I get the bad FFB since v.2.0 that has prompted me to ask this question. Well that and the fact that my friend who also suffered the same issues is now the not so proud owner of a brand new broken TX Racing wheel.

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 17:11
Basically I want to know if the bad FFB were getting has the ability to break our wheels.
In my case no because as soon as I feel it, I restart the session.

nissan4ever
02-08-2015, 17:11
What could soft clipping be doing that's causing this?

After Patch 2.0, me fooling with soft clipping half & full caused my wheel do some crazy junk. Leaving soft clipping half & full at 0.0. My TX does nothing but function correctly. Including with what I said I had everything else set to.

Brent G
02-08-2015, 17:13
Brent G you really need to have your soft clipping half & full at 0.0 after patch 2.0, period. That's your problem right there. My TX does none of the things after patch 2.0, that's described by some on these forums. It has to be the settings ya'll are using.

All my deadzones are 0. All sensitivity are all 50, except throttle is like 30 or 40. FFB is 100. On the screen with Tire Force, my tire force is around 60. Everything else is default except relative adjust gain is 1.10.

It doesn't matter if my cars are on game default per car FFB settings or I'm using Jack Spade's Spreadsheet. I don't experience what some of you do.

So, I do not think Project CARS is a FFB killer at all.

Without soft clipping my FFB is lifeless though mate, it has no feel at all. If it is down to settings why would it not be a constant issue, why does it only raise its ugly head under certain conditions? You may be right mate and that was the point of this thread as in if there is settings that put risk on our wheels it would be nice to have a little confirmation from the devs. So what settings would you suggest for globals then?

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 17:14
After Patch 2.0, me fooling with soft clipping half & full caused my wheel do some crazy junk. Leaving soft clipping half & full at 0.0. My TX does nothing but function correctly. Including with what I said I had everything else set to.So then you don't really know. You sounded pretty definitive so I thought you might be on to something. I agree that soft clipping should be turned off but I don't see how it could cause this problem.

nissan4ever
02-08-2015, 17:21
So then you don't really know. You sounded pretty definitive so I thought you might be on to something. I agree that soft clipping should be turned off but I don't see how it could cause this problem.

After Patch 2.0, when I had my soft clipping on anything but zero, I did get that funky, god awful vibration/FFB when you go through some turns. Which would lead to me quitting the game to correct it or hard restart my console. I know exactly what ya'll are talking about. However, with my mentioned settings a couple posts back, I no longer have problems after patch 2.0 with my TX. Regardless if I'm using game default FFB per car or Jack Spade's Spreadsheet.

So in my opinion, it's not the game. It's the settings the user is using. You not running soft clipping at 0.0 for both, your wheel will be funky. Seen it myself.

Brent G
02-08-2015, 17:21
In my case no because as soon as I feel it, I restart the session.

Yeah thats what I do mate, mostly though just rturning to garage and resaving resolves it. What about the people out there that dont realize though and just carry on playing anyway? If theres an issue in my opinion it wants fixing and there has to be an issue otherwise we wouldn't be getting this bad FFB.

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 17:22
When I had my soft clipping on anything but zero, I did get that funky, god awful vibration/FFB when you go through some turns. Which would lead to me quitting the game to correct it or hard restart my console. I know exactly what ya'll are talking about. However, with my mentioned settings a couple posts back, I no longer have problems after patch 2.0 with my TX. Regardless if I'm using game default FFB per car or Jack Spade's Spreadsheet.Ok but we do.

Brent G
02-08-2015, 17:27
After Patch 2.0, when I had my soft clipping on anything but zero, I did get that funky, god awful vibration/FFB when you go through some turns. Which would lead to me quitting the game to correct it or hard restart my console. I know exactly what ya'll are talking about. However, with my mentioned settings a couple posts back, I no longer have problems after patch 2.0 with my TX. Regardless if I'm using game default FFB per car or Jack Spade's Spreadsheet.

For me it only happend after a tuning set up save during a session. The FFB is just terrible, the slightest turn in and you get massive wheel wobble and at times it snaps hard and can hurt your wrist. If i then resave the same set up it cures it.

nissan4ever
02-08-2015, 17:29
Ok but we do.

Ok, I don't ;)

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 17:32
For me it only happend after a tuning set up save during a session. The FFB is just terrible, the slightest turn in and you get massive wheel wobble and at times it snaps hard and can hurt your wrist. If i then resave the same set up it cures it.
I'm pretty sure I've had it happen when I didn't even enter the tuning menu before a session.

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 17:34
Ok, I don't ;)
Yeah I get that.

FA RACING 01
02-08-2015, 17:49
I cannot say if PCars has the ability to destroy the TX or not because I dont have anything concrete yet. What I can say with confidence is that the game has some input that the TX certainly cannot handle. It also seems what works for some doesnt work for others. I'm not sure in which group I am, yet.

Brent G
02-08-2015, 18:05
user[/B] is using. You not running soft clipping at 0.0 for both, your wheel will be funky. Seen it myself.

It has to be down to the game, you can only set your wheel via the sliders in the set up menu. If there is settings that can have the ability to break wheels then the devs need to do something about it. I've just tried resetting globals and adjusting only relative gain to 1.10 as suggested by Nissan4ever and this just gave me a lifeless wheel. The only way to get any sort of decent wheel weight was to increase TF to 98 as opposed to the 50 I had before. Thing is at 98 I get the wheel oscillation in a straight line. I just cant believe were stilling having so many problems this far in.

Brent G
02-08-2015, 18:09
I cannot say if PCars has the ability to destroy the TX or not because I dont have anything concrete yet. What I can say with confidence is that the game has some input that the TX certainly cannot handle. It also seems what works for some doesnt work for others. I'm not sure in which group I am, yet.

Yeah it seems its like that across the board with this title as far as we all seem to get varying issues. That makes it all the more difficult to find definitive ways to address problems.

RoccoTTS
02-08-2015, 18:10
It has to be down to the game, you can only set your wheel via the sliders in the set up menu. If there is settings that can have the ability to break wheels then the devs need to do something about it. I've just tried resetting globals and adjusting only relative gain to 1.10 as suggested by Nissan4ever and this just gave me a lifeless wheel. The only way to get any sort of decent wheel weight was to increase TF to 98 as opposed to the 50 I had before. Thing is at 98 I get the wheel oscillation in a straight line. I just cant believe were stilling having so many problems this far in.

It's like a real car, my car can run 250 km/h. But if i run constantly 250, my car will break down very quickly ;)

Brent G
02-08-2015, 18:24
It's like a real car, my car can run 250 km/h. But if i run constantly 250, my car will break down very quickly ;)

Thats why I like to stay away from high TF, I also never run long stints and for the best part when the fan kicks in on the TX I usually pause the game so as to not over work it. I have the wheel feeling nice again with settings I've been using which are default apart from adjust gain 1.10, soft clip half 0.6 and soft clip full 1.2 all with 50 TF. I use JS' 66% as a base and adjust Master, SOP and Mz if they feel too strong which since 2.0 they have been. My worries are centered around the occasional 'corrupt' feedback that can occur which when happens is quite severe and the fact a few friends have has wheels die when playing cars. One of these I know for a fact had only ever used the wheel for pCars.

Schnizz58
02-08-2015, 18:30
It has to be down to the game, you can only set your wheel via the sliders in the set up menu. If there is settings that can have the ability to break wheels then the devs need to do something about it. I've just tried resetting globals and adjusting only relative gain to 1.10 as suggested by Nissan4ever and this just gave me a lifeless wheel. The only way to get any sort of decent wheel weight was to increase TF to 98 as opposed to the 50 I had before. Thing is at 98 I get the wheel oscillation in a straight line. I just cant believe were stilling having so many problems this far in.
Did you try the wheelcheck program in this thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35147-Linear-FFB-Test-Excel-sheet-Universal)? It could be that something's getting worn out in your wheel. I can't believe you would think TF=50 is lifeless. However as you'll see in that thread, the TX wheel has a pretty flat response above a certain point. I found a way to linearize it using scoop reduction and tried it but didn't really like how it felt (big kerbs were very rough) and so I took advantage of that natural compression that the TX provides by only applying a little bit of scoop and I think it feels pretty darn good. Except for the occasional corruption which a restart usually fixes.

RoccoTTS
02-08-2015, 18:47
Thats why I like to stay away from high TF, I also never run long stints and for the best part when the fan kicks in on the TX I usually pause the game so as to not over work it. I have the wheel feeling nice again with settings I've been using which are default apart from adjust gain 1.10, soft clip half 0.6 and soft clip full 1.2 all with 50 TF. I use JS' 66% as a base and adjust Master, SOP and Mz if they feel too strong which since 2.0 they have been. My worries are centered around the occasional 'corrupt' feedback that can occur which when happens is quite severe and the fact a few friends have has wheels die when playing cars. One of these I know for a fact had only ever used the wheel for pCars.

You know what i do to prevent a break down ?
Nothing, i use my wheel every day. When it breaks it breaks and send it back to TM, i have 2 years warranty. If it breaks after those 2 years, i buy a new one.
And my wheels is 18 months old and has run about 900 hours.
Buy a wheel and be afraid to use it like buying a race car and never drive it on a circuit because maybe your car is gonna break down.

FA RACING 01
02-08-2015, 19:02
You know what i do to prevent a break down ?
Nothing, i use my wheel every day. When it breaks it breaks and send it back to TM, i have 2 years warranty. If it breaks after those 2 years, i buy a new one.
And my wheels is 18 months old and has run about 900 hours.
Buy a wheel and be afraid to use it like buying a race car and never drive it on a circuit because maybe your car is gonna break down.

Yeah, and it sometimes rains in the Sahara too.

Warranties and new wheels (for those that can afford it) is re-active. We need pro-active measures like some have suggested here because some only does a few hours before the wheel destroys itself. And you can believe me from experience, Thrustmaster warranty doesnt cover any of these issues, or so they say.

SweeetFA
02-08-2015, 19:12
Has it crossed your mind that it could be related to the Modified car pack dlc not installing properly?
If my TX fails it'll go back. On a side note when I connect my TX to a PC and open the TX's control panel, then go to test forces only one force works? Is that normal?

FA RACING 01
02-08-2015, 19:19
Has it crossed your mind that it could be related to the Modified car pack dlc not installing properly?
If my TX fails it'll go back. On a side note when I connect my TX to a PC and open the TX's control panel, then go to test forces only one force works? Is that normal?

I've done the same test you did and had the same result. TM refuse to accept that result can differ from wheel's status.

SweeetFA
02-08-2015, 19:46
I've done the same test you did and had the same result. TM refuse to accept that result can differ from wheel's status.

Cheers for the reply. They did all use to work, they told me to send a recording of the issue.
I'll just crack on till it breaks. ;)

RoccoTTS
02-08-2015, 19:57
Yeah, and it sometimes rains in the Sahara too.

Warranties and new wheels (for those that can afford it) is re-active. We need pro-active measures like some have suggested here because some only does a few hours before the wheel destroys itself. And you can believe me from experience, Thrustmaster warranty doesnt cover any of these issues, or so they say.

I know how it works, i had big problems with my Fanatec CSR wheel. My pedals of the CSR wheel failed after short time of use.
But what can you do about it ? There's only one way : use it and hope it doesn't break.

FA RACING 01
02-08-2015, 20:00
I know how it works, i had big problems with my Fanatec CSR wheel. My pedals of the CSR wheel failed after short time of use.
But what can you do about it ? There's only one way : use it and hope it doesn't break.

Yeah. It seems thats about all we can do at this stage. Will be nice to find the cause and cure though.

kingleer
03-08-2015, 02:27
. For example if I come of track and hit a barrier my TX goes mental, rotating back and forth like mad. Even when paused it doesn't stop, only on restarting session does it cease but then upon restart the wheel will be 30 ish of centre.

You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSBjNBxYRY

baz00ka
03-08-2015, 02:28
if you want to take it easy on yr wheel in terms of wear and tear set FF lower not tyre force. set it in game options not via TX PC control panel. tyre force is just a component of FF and even if you set it very low there could be something else hitting FF at full strength. yes tyre force is more likely to be a culprit of all haaywire FF but if you set FF strength lower you can increase tyre force more as much as you like bc it cant go over FF strength. yes you would lose FF detail but thats a choice you have to make if you think the game drives yr wheel way too hard. personally i dont do that but its my choice. if you want some peace of mind set FF strength to 75 in game as thats what seem to be TX default and most likely what Thrustmaster tests them with. if it breaks it breaks. the choice is either to have docile FF like Forza or one with some kick and detail like this game has. or you can unplug yr wheel and put it somewhere safe and then throw it away in a few years because it will be obsolete by then anyway.

FA RACING 01
03-08-2015, 04:36
^^^ You missing the point mate.

Rockefelluh
03-08-2015, 05:08
You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSBjNBxYRY

So annoying.

baz00ka
03-08-2015, 08:33
set Wheel Movement at *-0.04 and Wheel Movement Squared at 0.04 and see if it goes away. i have seen this with incorrect drag settings and these values are the best i found that i can dial in with the current configuration UI. it could also be related to incorrect deadzone removal settings but iirc it caused a different pattern. try it. if it doesnt help set both deadzone removal and falloff to 0 and keep wheel smoothing at default. anyway, i believe these are the settings that can be responsible for this or similar effects.


You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSBjNBxYRY

TAGS Battfink
03-08-2015, 10:29
I read a post somehere saying basically its impossible for them to send a signal to the tx that would break it, it must have a safety feature built in to protect the internals.

If thats the case then all faults are quality issues with thrustmaster themselves?

Since patch 2.0 i found that a full reset, 900 DOR, tyre force of 50 and all ingame ffb sliders (including smoothing sliders) set to 50 give the best ffb ive ever experienced on this game.

Raven403
03-08-2015, 12:58
I read a post somehere saying basically its impossible for them to send a signal to the tx that would break it, it must have a safety feature built in to protect the internals.

I saw that too, But I'm not sure how true it is, While that may be true that any game wont send a signal that will IMMEDIATELY break your wheel, as Rocco said, if you change all these settings or one of the inputs puts a ton of strain or fatigue on one component in the wheel, you bet your ass its gonna accelerate a problem. That means the game is contributing to breaking your wheel. Basically SMS gave us the option to turn our turbos up to 11, but never said it could adversely affect your engine lol, which I guess to most is common sense, but its an Assumption a Dev should not make.

As is the case with pretty much every other aspect of this game, there was no clear "Default" or warning about settings for FFB from the get-go. Everyone was just left to fend for themselves and figure it out, some lost wheels in the process. While giving us 1,000 ffb settings to change is great, for the 2% of people who actually understand them, It probably wouldve been best to just get a default setting nailed down, and give a few simple options to makes Stronger/Weaker (Master Scale, etc.) Which I think alot of us do, (mine is all at default except for 2 settings)

But the way the wheel acts sometimes, is NOT Thrustmasters fault, im sorry, its just not. I dont have any of the issues I see around this forum with any other game, especially on the Xbox. Not to mention the fact that people are constantly losing FFB on Xbox, thats not Thrustmasters fault, its SMS and MS if anything, and Im more inclined to think its SMS, its their job to make their game work with the OS and Hardware it says it works with.

That said, the way Thrustmaster is replacing the wheels leads me to believe they will be looking into it as well, so a firmware update could be coming.

Also, the FFB constantly changes in Online games, it gets Stronger/Weaker disappears altogether. Theres no way I can take a CLIP of it but it happens. I practiced all week with it feeling a certain way, then last night in an online league race it was atleast 3x stronger...... This has happened atleast a dozen times before, and have no Idea why. Why would being online affect FFB?? Something to look into

Brent G
03-08-2015, 14:21
Did you try the wheelcheck program in this thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35147-Linear-FFB-Test-Excel-sheet-Universal)? It could be that something's getting worn out in your wheel. I can't believe you would think TF=50 is lifeless. However as you'll see in that thread, the TX wheel has a pretty flat response above a certain point. I found a way to linearize it using scoop reduction and tried it but didn't really like how it felt (big kerbs were very rough) and so I took advantage of that natural compression that the TX provides by only applying a little bit of scoop and I think it feels pretty darn good. Except for the occasional corruption which a restart usually fixes.

My TX isnt as old a this game mate so I should hope its still in good shape. As for TF at 50 feeling lifeless that was with Nissan4ever's advised settings. With my settings FFB is good apart from the occasional corruption that occurs at times. I just would like to know wether or not this corruption is likely to damage my TX.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 14:23
I saw that too, But I'm not sure how true it is, While that may be true that any game wont send a signal that will IMMEDIATELY break your wheel, as Rocco said, if you change all these settings or one of the inputs puts a ton of strain or fatigue on one component in the wheel, you bet your ass its gonna accelerate a problem. That means the game is contributing to breaking your wheel. Basically SMS gave us the option to turn our turbos up to 11, but never said it could adversely affect your engine lol, which I guess to most is common sense, but its an Assumption a Dev should not make.
Higher forces will wear out the wheel faster, that's true. So if you want your wheel to last longer, turn down the force. Conversely if you have to race with the knob turned up to 11, then be aware that it may shorten your wheel's lifespan.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 14:24
My TX isnt as old a this game mate so I should hope its still in good shape. As for TF at 50 feeling lifeless that was with Nissan4ever's advised settings. With my settings FFB is good apart from the occasional corruption that occurs at times. I just would like to know wether or not this corruption is likely to damage my TX.
Still worth running the profiler to see what the response of your wheel is. Helped me dial in a couple of values.

Brent G
03-08-2015, 14:55
You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDSBjNBxYRY

Errr yup thats it right there, this happens after collisions or a visit to the gravel traps. Thing is it can also continue even when paused and only upon restarting session does it stop. Surely this has to be software related as opposed to a problem with the TXs base.

Brent G
03-08-2015, 16:07
[QUOTE=nissan4ever;1071678]Brent G you really need to have your soft clipping half & full at 0.0 after patch 2.0, period. That's your problem right there. My TX does none of the things after patch 2.0, that's described by some on these forums. It has to be the settings ya'll are using.

All my deadzones are 0. All sensitivity are all 50, except throttle is like 30 or 40. FFB is 100. On the screen with Tire Force, my tire force is around 60. Everything else is default except relative adjust gain is 1.10.

Ok so after following this advice and only adjusting 'gain' the issues described im my OP still persist, therefore soft clipping can not be the culprit when it comes to the 'corrupt' FFB we are suffering from. I am now going to play with global FFB at total default to see wether or not the bad feedback still occurs.

Brent G
03-08-2015, 17:19
There you go very 1st race with all FFB configuration options set to default and the Issues still persist. Infact the only changes I made at all were to set Steering DZ to 0 and all sensitivities to 60. Seems it infact is a case of some have the issue and some dont, pretty much just the same as many of the problems pCars has. It really is a sad state of affairs. Still a little dissapointed that no one from the development team has tried to shead a little light on what could be the cause of the seemingly mysterious FFB 'corruption, not even a "its fine, the game wont kill your wheel" or conversley a "better hold fire till we've looked in to it" Yes some of us have wheels that are under warranty so if they break they'll be replaced but its all the hassle thats involved and what about those with wheels without warranty, What if the dodgy FFB kills their's?

nissan4ever
03-08-2015, 17:19
Well, it's truly a shame your game/wheel does that. I don't know why some do & some don't. I know mine doesn't do that & I'm not worried at all about Project CARS allegedly breaking/killing my TX.

Brent G
03-08-2015, 17:37
Well, it's truly a shame your game/wheel does that. I don't know why some do & some don't. I know mine doesn't do that & I'm not worried at all about Project CARS allegedly breaking my TX.

Well I hope you dont aquire any of these issues as I and many others have. I had barely any problems at release and was much like you in thinking others were just wrong. Unfortunately each update has brought with it issues that weren't present prior to installation to said patches. Obviously I feel different towards the game now as Im sure you will if your unfortunate enough to fall victim to some of the bugs we have to deal with. I hope it all gets straightened out I really do but I must confess that as time goes by I doubt it will ever reach the state we all expected it to be in when we purchased it. I want to play career, race weekend and multiplayer all without game braking bugs or a plethoura of work-arounds and without unneccessary risk to my wheel. Is that really to much to expect?

inthebagbud
03-08-2015, 17:37
Brentg

Do you have any drr set?

Raven403
03-08-2015, 17:40
There you go very 1st race with all FFB configuration options set to default and the Issues still persist. Infact the only changes I made at all were to set Steering DZ to 0 and all sensitivities to 60. Seems it infact is a case of some have the issue and some dont, pretty much just the same as many of the problems pCars has. It really is a sad state of affairs. Still a little dissapointed that no one from the development team has tried to shead a little light on what could be the cause of the seemingly mysterious FFB 'corruption, not even a "its fine, the game wont kill your wheel" or conversley a "better hold fire till we've looked in to it" Yes some of us have wheels that are under warranty so if they break they'll be replaced but its all the hassle thats involved and what about those with wheels without warranty, What if the dodgy FFB kills their's?

Being online affects the wheel, it changes strength in online sessions, and sometimes vanishes in-explicably. So something about the game is corrupting it, in my opinion. As far as the settings go, I use the PC default settings on Xbox, which is all the same except for one Value, Damper Saturation I believe. On PC its 25 on Xbox its 0 at default. So i made it 24 (25 isnt available as a value on Xbox, go figure) and the ffb is great for me at that value. Only other thing I did was turn TF up to 105 and its been great for me using Master Scale at around 30 35.

But sometimes the wheel does some ridiculous stuff, so I know what you mean, and that video shows one of the instances perfectly. It hasnt happened to me in a while, but im also not playing nearly as much as I was, and probably wont until 3.0 comes out whenever that is.

I should say I havent had a problem like was shown in the video since the latest patch, and thats because I returned my wheel settings to default and removed the Deadzone removal range value I had before 2.0. But Ive had the wheel get locked Full lock Left and Right.

Brent G
03-08-2015, 18:58
Brentg

Do you have any drr set?

Default mate, 0.01

inthebagbud
03-08-2015, 19:37
I have now removed all drr drf settings as I could replicate the corruption by using drr - its not conclusive evidence but it has helped me.

I now only use relative settings for ffb as I found no real benefit using the other settings some of which seemed counter to the actual inbuilt wheel settings. at one stage I even set them all to zero and ffb still worked albeit with a slightly higher TF.

no doubt the settings are there for wheel combinations and are probably ported from the PC version and my testing suggest that many are not actually needed for the TX wheel

Haiden
03-08-2015, 19:56
Without soft clipping my FFB is lifeless though mate, it has no feel at all. If it is down to settings why would it not be a constant issue, why does it only raise its ugly head under certain conditions? You may be right mate and that was the point of this thread as in if there is settings that put risk on our wheels it would be nice to have a little confirmation from the devs. So what settings would you suggest for globals then?

Why are you only setting the Half clip value? The whole point of using clipping is to bring the high range values into your wheel's capability range. The only reason you'd adjust the Half value without raising the Full would be to amplify your lower forces. Which is kind of what you're doing with Half set to .6, although only slightly.

I have a TX wheel. And your comment about no clipping leaving the wheel dead doesn't make a sense. I use clipping, Half at .6 and Full at 1.5 or 2.0, or whatever increment is closest to those. Sorry, I'm not in front of my machine, and I can't remember which Full value I settled on, but neither gave me problems. I was just kept going back and forth to decide which I liked best. Regardless, with or without clipping, I've never had the problems you described above, even with FFB and Tyre Force set to 100. The only time I've ever experienced wheel issues was after messing with the deadzone removal and drop off. The problem went away after I set those back. Since patch 2.0, I've turned my FFB down to 75 and my Tyre Force down to around 50. Clipping is .6 and 2.0. If I could set Half to .5, I would, but that value is no longer available after Patch 2.0. Setting it to .5 basically cancels it out. I'd be fine with that, because I just want to compress the higher ranges to avoid clipping.

Again, the default FFB settings in PCars may not be to your liking, but they don't cause the wheel to haywire. For that reason, I'd recommend doing a reset and recalibration, and then test it out with the defaults, before making adjustments. If your wheel is still acting strange, then you're problem might be with the wheel itself. Does it work fine with other games? I've been using my TX with PCars since it the game released and haven't had any issues. With FFB at 75 and TF at 50, the fan rarely even kicks in to cool it. My wheel was working harder with Forza 5 than it is with PCars. If anything Forza 5 was a potential TX killer. That FFB was aweful.

Also, ask your friend where they purchased their wheel. Some online retailers still have product in inventory from the early TX release. There were product defects with the early TX versions, and they were breaking shortly after purchase.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 19:58
Why are you only setting the half clip value? The whole point of using clipping is to bring the high range values into your wheel's capability range. The only reason you'd adjust the half without raising the full would be to amplify your lower forces. Which is kind of what you're doing with half set to .6, although only slightly.
That actually attenuates the lower forces rather than amplify them.

In any case, there's no real reason to use any soft clipping at all with a TX wheel since it has sort of a built-in compression.

Haiden
03-08-2015, 20:13
That actually attenuates the lower forces rather than amplify them.

In any case, there's no real reason to use any soft clipping at all with a TX wheel since it has sort of a built-in compression.

How so? He's basically telling the game to treat .6 as the half value. That compresses everything between .1 and .6 into the .1 to .5 range. Slight, but still compression. The upper range is what he's opening up. At least that's my understanding. Oh, nevermind. I think I see what you're saying, and I think we're kind of saying the same thing, but I may have used the wrong verbiage. He's still crowding that lower range, pushing more force values into those increments, and it still seems pointless, since he's not adjusting the Full value.

Also, the built in compression doesn't work well, at least not for me. I experience clipping when I use the defaults (I can see it in the telemetry), and the wheel feels much better when I do use it. Without it, the FFB saturates too quickly, and I can't feel things like braking and other nuances. I went back and forth, with and without clipping. The wheel definitely felt heavier and less dynamic without clipping.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 20:20
How so? He's basically telling the game to treat .6 as the half value. That compresses everything between .1 and .6 into the .1 to .5 range. Slight, but still compression. The upper range is what he's opening up. At least that's my understanding.
It compresses everything from 0 to 0.6 into the range 0 to 0.5. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think anything is changed between 0.6 and 1.0 in this particular case. The transform is SC(half) -> 0.5 and SC(full) -> 1.0.

Haiden
03-08-2015, 20:25
It compresses everything from 0 to 0.6 into the range 0 to 0.5. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think anything is changed between 0.6 and 1.0 in this particular case. The transform is SC(half) -> 0.5 and SC(full) -> 1.0.

Isn't that what I said? He's compressing the lower range, but not the higher range? Compressing the lower range might cause the problems he mentioned, although, at .6, the compression is so slight, it doesn't likely.

Haiden
03-08-2015, 20:28
Also, I'm not sure 0 is a force value, since it's basically the same as no feedback. There's nothing to compress. Which is probably why 0 turns clipping off. It might also be why SMS changed the increments, so you can't choose .5 and 1.0. People were doing that, and those values basically nullify the soft clipping. The way the increments are now, you can no longer set it so it cancels out.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 20:31
Isn't that what I said? He's compressing the lower range, but not the higher range?
No, you said he was amplifying the lower range.

Haiden
03-08-2015, 20:37
No, you said he was amplifying the lower range.

Yeah... That's what I mean by me using the wrong verbiage. Compression is what I meant. By amplify, I was trying to point out that he was squeezing more FFB values into that space. :)

I don't think it really matters though, unless TX wheels are behaving differently from Xb to Xb, then I don't think that clipping value is his problem. If his Half value was set to .3 or something, then that would different.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 20:41
Agreed, a value of 0.6 is not really that different from OFF. I found out the hard way not to set the half value to 0.1. Back when there was a UI bug that prevented you from setting it to 0, I was playing with soft clipping and wanted to turn it back off. It wouldn't let me set it all the way to 0.0 so I set it to 0.1. BAD IDEA! All low values of force got amplified by 5 and there was a notch at center deeper than the Marianas Trench. I could barely turn the wheel.

Haiden
03-08-2015, 20:51
Agreed, a value of 0.6 is not really that different from OFF. I found out the hard way not to set the half value to 0.1. Back when there was a UI bug that prevented you from setting it to 0, I was playing with soft clipping and wanted to turn it back off. It wouldn't let me set it all the way to 0.0 so I set it to 0.1. BAD IDEA! All low values of force got amplified by 5 and there was a notch at center deeper than the Marianas Trench. I could barely turn the wheel.

Exact same thing happened to me... LOL

Not sure why so many people have problems with the TX wheel. Mine is fine at 75/50 (FFB/TF). I use Jack Spade settings at the car level, but the defaults didn't exactly feel bad, just a little less dynamic than Spade's.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 20:53
Exact same thing happened to me... LOL

Not sure why so many people have problems with the TX wheel. Mine is fine at 75/50 (FFB/TF). I use Jack Spade settings at the car level, but the defaults didn't exactly feel bad, just a little less dynamic than Spade's.
I only have the sporadic problem that the feedback is WAAAAYYYY too strong in corners now and then but a session restart almost always fixes that. Yes, if I let go of the wheel it oscillates but that's because of the deadzone removal. It's gonna do that.

diesel97
03-08-2015, 20:54
Over 60 post and not one from a dev about this. You would think with a thread title like that they would be here to help. Must be all on vaction, maybe tomorrow.

Haiden
03-08-2015, 21:07
I only have the sporadic problem that the feedback is WAAAAYYYY too strong in corners now and then but a session restart almost always fixes that. Yes, if I let go of the wheel it oscillates but that's because of the deadzone removal. It's gonna do that.

Yeah... I was using Deadzone removal, but decided to try it without after I reset for Patch 2.0. It feels okay to me now, and I don't miss that oscillation.


Over 60 post and not one from a dev about this. You would think with a thread title like that they would be here to help. Must be all on vaction, maybe tomorrow.

Maybe they're just prioritizing and know the game isn't a wheel killer, and that the TX works fine with it. Unless of course, you've goofed your settings. :)

diesel97
03-08-2015, 21:16
Yeah... I was using Deadzone removal, but decided to try it without after I reset for Patch 2.0. It feels okay to me now, and I don't miss that oscillation.



Maybe they're just prioritizing and know the game isn't a wheel killer, and that the TX works fine with it. Unless of course, you've goofed your settings. :)

maybe but does the wheel work fine until you hit a sand trap or wall and then the wheel "bugs out " until you reset or unplug

STEELJOCKEY
03-08-2015, 21:35
Couple of things to look at, make sure you have tha latest firmware, might be good to re flash to make sure not corrupt. Run a calibration tool, can't find it at the moment but I'll check for it when I get home in a few hours. This does a full check of the wheel and sorts out any issues, instructions came with the tool to remove rim and check.

Reset and recalibrate wheel in game, I've only reduced deadline to zero, all other settings are at default for 2.0. FFB a little strong but I like it that way. Haven't had a problem since other than the lose FFB when snapping app, easy to fix by going back to dashboard and back into game, quicker than unplugging wheel and plugging back in for reset.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 21:41
Yeah... I was using Deadzone removal, but decided to try it without after I reset for Patch 2.0. It feels okay to me now, and I don't miss that oscillation.
I never really noticed the oscillation until somebody here mentioned it. So I tried it and mine does that too. Big deal. Just don't let go of the wheel. The high cornering force is a much bigger problem from my perspective and even that isn't a huge problem. If you want to fix a really big bug, go fix the setup load/save problem. That would be a game changer (literally) for me.

Haiden
03-08-2015, 21:53
I never really noticed the oscillation until somebody here mentioned it. So I tried it and mine does that too. Big deal. Just don't let go of the wheel. The high cornering force is a much bigger problem from my perspective and even that isn't a huge problem. If you want to fix a really big bug, go fix the setup load/save problem. That would be a game changer (literally) for me.

I don't feel like my corner forces are too high, but I'm using the Jack Spade settings. The default car setups were a little heavy. Even with the global settings at 75/50, the default 26 on the Master Scale in the car tune felt too heavy for me.

I couldn't agree with you more on the setup saving bug. For a sim style racer, that's some pretty basic stuff. It definitely shouldn't still be happening three months and three patches later later.

Schnizz58
03-08-2015, 22:03
I don't feel like my corner forces are too high, but I'm using the Jack Spade settings. The default car setups were a little heavy. Even with the global settings at 75/50, the default 26 on the Master Scale in the car tune felt too heavy for me.
It's an intermittent problem. Every now and then (maybe 1 out of 5-10 races) there is a violent oscillation in corners. Have you ever noticed that when you corner really hard, the tire feels like it will slip a little then regain grip, then slip a little more, then grip again? This is tire scrubbing. Well the problem I'm talking about is like just that component of the force is amplified (not compressed, lol) a hundred-fold. So everything feels pretty normal until you go into turn 1 and then it feels like the car is going to shake apart.

oneBIGkicker
04-08-2015, 00:29
I just got the tx on Friday , using on PCars all weekend , no issues at all

Just now tried Forza for only 2nd time with wheel.1st lap,last turn on seabring i spin out and try to have some fun and keep spinning out, turn back other direction and smoke comes out if wheel?!
So pissed, customer suppor closed at 8, went down 8;10

nissan4ever
04-08-2015, 00:43
I just got the tx on Friday , using on PCars all weekend , no issues at all

Just now tried Forza for only 2nd time with wheel.1st lap,last turn on seabring i spin out and try to have some fun and keep spinning out, turn back other direction and smoke comes out if wheel?!
So pissed, customer suppor closed at 8, went down 8;10

Oh man, that sucks. You unfortunately got a bad wheel (sounds like one from old launch batch failure). Call them tomorrow. Won't be long & you'll have a new base. Hopefully that one will be good to go for the long haul! I've been fortunate that my launch batch TX is still kicking.

Haiden
04-08-2015, 03:49
It's an intermittent problem. Every now and then (maybe 1 out of 5-10 races) there is a violent oscillation in corners. Have you ever noticed that when you corner really hard, the tire feels like it will slip a little then regain grip, then slip a little more, then grip again? This is tire scrubbing. Well the problem I'm talking about is like just that component of the force is amplified (not compressed, lol) a hundred-fold. So everything feels pretty normal until you go into turn 1 and then it feels like the car is going to shake apart.

Strange. I don't get that in corners, unless there's undulation in the track and weight is coming off the wheels. I did try running no soft clipping, after you mentioned that the TX has built in compression. Without soft clipping, my FFB clips in corners, but I realized that it only flatlines when I'm braking. Other than that, running it with no soft clipping actually feels a lot better. Within 4 laps I shaved a bit of time off my best at Brno. I can totally deal with the clipping while braking. I feel the braking, so it doesn't really matter. As soon as I come off the pedal, the FFB drops back into range. I hadn't noticed that it was only during braking before. I just saw it clipping and made the adjustment to get rid of it. Thanks! It felt good with a little soft clipping, but now it feels great without it.


I just got the tx on Friday , using on PCars all weekend , no issues at all

Just now tried Forza for only 2nd time with wheel.1st lap,last turn on seabring i spin out and try to have some fun and keep spinning out, turn back other direction and smoke comes out if wheel?!
So pissed, customer suppor closed at 8, went down 8;10

Man, that really sucks. Sounds like whoever you bought the wheel from was selling off an old inventory. That is the exact problem reported by people with the first batch of TX wheels--either a loud pop or smoke with a bad smell, and then the wheel died. But I think it's definitely the early batch. I've had my TX for about a year and played Forza 5 almost daily, until PCars came out, and never had a problem. Who did you buy it from? Also, did you update the firmware? Don't know if that would cause that problem, just asking.

STEELJOCKEY
04-08-2015, 05:31
I can't seem to find the link to the calibration tool now, but I have it if you want it.

Brent G
04-08-2015, 08:34
Why are you only setting the Half clip value? The whole point of using clipping is to bring the high range values into your wheel's capability range. The only reason you'd adjust the Half value without raising the Full would be to amplify your lower forces. Which is kind of what you're doing with Half set to .6, although only slightly.

I have a TX wheel. And your comment about no clipping leaving the wheel dead doesn't make a sense. I use clipping, Half at .6 and Full at 1.5 or 2.0, or whatever increment is closest to those. Sorry, I'm not in front of my machine, and I can't remember which Full value I settled on, but neither gave me problems. I was just kept going back and forth to decide which I liked best. Regardless, with or without clipping, I've never had the problems you described above, even with FFB and Tyre Force set to 100. The only time I've ever experienced wheel issues was after messing with the deadzone removal and drop off. The problem went away after I set those back. Since patch 2.0, I've turned my FFB down to 75 and my Tyre Force down to around 50. Clipping is .6 and 2.0. If I could set Half to .5, I would, but that value is no longer available after Patch 2.0. Setting it to .5 basically cancels it out. I'd be fine with that, because I just want to compress the higher ranges to avoid clipping.

Again, the default FFB settings in PCars may not be to your liking, but they don't cause the wheel to haywire. For that reason, I'd recommend doing a reset and recalibration, and then test it out with the defaults, before making adjustments. If your wheel is still acting strange, then you're problem might be with the wheel itself. Does it work fine with other games? I've been using my TX with PCars since it the game released and haven't had any issues. With FFB at 75 and TF at 50, the fan rarely even kicks in to cool it. My wheel was working harder with Forza 5 than it is with PCars. If anything Forza 5 was a potential TX killer. That FFB was aweful.

Also, ask your friend where they purchased their wheel. Some online retailers still have product in inventory from the early TX release. There were product defects with the early TX versions, and they were breaking shortly after purchase.

I don't only set half that would be pointless, half is 0.6 and full is 1.2. This gives me a good wheel weight and no notchy feeling what so ever when used with a tyre force of 50. This coupled with JS 66% figures and barring the occasional bad feedback the wheel feels great. My mate got his wheel from playseatstore the same as I. As for resetting and re calibration I've carried that out multiple times each time the different settings produced the same occasional corrupt ffb

Haiden
04-08-2015, 14:47
I don't only set half that would be pointless, half is 0.6 and full is 1.2. This gives me a good wheel weight and no notchy feeling what so ever when used with a tyre force of 50. This coupled with JS 66% figures and barring the occasional bad feedback the wheel feels great. My mate got his wheel from playseatstore the same as I. As for resetting and re calibration I've carried that out multiple times each time the different settings produced the same occasional corrupt ffb

Strange then, because I don't have any of the problems you're having. My TX has been fine. Even with FB and TF at 100 and running the defaults, the issue was the wheel felt too heavy, but I wasn't getting any crazy spastic movement.

nissan4ever
04-08-2015, 15:09
but I wasn't getting any crazy spastic movement.

Yup, mine doesn't either.

inthebagbud
04-08-2015, 15:36
I can't seem to find the link to the calibration tool now, but I have it if you want it.

214236

This is the thrustmaster check tool

Plug in wheel and run the file in the zip file - it runs through a sequence and basically says OK or not

Brent G
04-08-2015, 15:56
Strange then, because I don't have any of the problems you're having. My TX has been fine. Even with FB and TF at 100 and running the defaults, the issue was the wheel felt too heavy, but I wasn't getting any crazy spastic movement.

This thread is not in regards to a constant issue, As I've said multiple times it happens on occasion. As Schnizz said in an earlier post its as if at times the FFB is being amplified.......massively. This has lead me to question the possiblty of this 'corrupt' FFB to have the ability to kill wheels. Its easy to dismiss problems you dont suffer from. This isn't aimed at you but the community in general, I myself have told people they must be wrong because I didnt suffer from their issues. Thing is I do suffer from some of these bugs now since installing patches therfore I've learned the error of my ways. It seems none of us have the very same version of the game seeing as we all have varying degrees of problems with pCars.

Brent G
04-08-2015, 16:02
Yup, mine doesn't either.

Then your lucky mate coz it seems a boat load of us do. As Ive mentioned before at launch I had virtually no issues, now however I have many. PCars for me has gotten progresively worse with each update. Thats not me moaning or exaggerating thats a cold hard reality. I wish that wasn't the case I truly do as the physics and visual aspects of the title are truly fantastic.

Brent G
04-08-2015, 16:06
Over 60 post and not one from a dev about this. You would think with a thread title like that they would be here to help. Must be all on vaction, maybe tomorrow.

To be honest mate I used the words I did to hopefully grab some dev. attention. Failed misserably though ;)

inthebagbud
04-08-2015, 16:17
This thread is not in regards to a constant issue, As I've said multiple times it happens on occasion. As Schnizz said in an earlier post its as if at times the FFB is being amplified.......massively. This has lead me to question the possiblty of this 'corrupt' FFB to have the ability to kill wheels. Its easy to dismiss problems you dont suffer from. This isn't aimed at you but the community in general, I myself have told people they must be wrong because I didnt suffer from their issues. Thing is I do suffer from some of these bugs now since installing patches therfore I've learned the error of my ways. It seems none of us have the very same version of the game seeing as we all have varying degrees of problems with pCars.

As Brent G states this is totally random, and is now on the known bugs list.

I think one of the issues is that the FFB settings are there to cover all makes of wheels and as we do not know which are specific to our wheel, using them on there own or in combination may be counter productive to the actual wheel settings. It is only by our own trial and error that we encounter these issues and it is clear that as not everybody has the issues ( as no doubt we all have totally different settings) it has to be coming from the game.

In the last few weeks I have thankfully not experienced but whether this is due to my settings or sheer good luck who knows.

FYI I now do not use DRR DRF Scoop or Clip I only use RAG RAB & RAC - whether this is the reason the issue seems to have gone away is for SMS to confirm.

I sympathise with anybody who has this issue as it destroys any enjoyment of the game

Brent G
04-08-2015, 16:58
As Brent G states this is totally random, and is now on the known bugs list.

I think one of the issues is that the FFB settings are there to cover all makes of wheels and as we do not know which are specific to our wheel, using them on there own or in combination may be counter productive to the actual wheel settings. It is only by our own trial and error that we encounter these issues and it is clear that as not everybody has the issues ( as no doubt we all have totally different settings) it has to be coming from the game.

In the last few weeks I have thankfully not experienced but whether this is due to my settings or sheer good luck who knows.

FYI I now do not use DRR DRF Scoop or Clip I only use RAG RAB & RAC - whether this is the reason the issue seems to have gone away is for SMS to confirm.

I sympathise with anybody who has this issue as it destroys any enjoyment of the game

I tried my settings using soft clipping, a setting default bar relative gain 1.10 and total default. The problem persisted with all three. A lot of these bugs destroy the enjoyment, lets hope pCars II is better finished.

baz00ka
04-08-2015, 17:01
also dont forget that the wheels themselves would differ somewhat unit from unit for the same model. they are mechanical devices and tolerances on them are not that tight. then each model can be modified during its production to address problems or suit slightly different components used during each production cycle (component price/shortage/etc). each unit has to be dialed in i think. things like wheel mov, squared, deadzone, smoothing ie parameters that deal with wheel specifics. the rest of FF things like compression, filtering and amplification got nothing to do with this. of course some of it is probably buggy like the rest of the game eg i have posted in a different thread about deadzone falloff leading to an interesting but bizarre effect that doesnt make sense per what that parameter should be doing.

Haiden
04-08-2015, 17:35
This thread is not in regards to a constant issue, As I've said multiple times it happens on occasion. As Schnizz said in an earlier post its as if at times the FFB is being amplified.......massively. This has lead me to question the possiblty of this 'corrupt' FFB to have the ability to kill wheels. Its easy to dismiss problems you dont suffer from. This isn't aimed at you but the community in general, I myself have told people they must be wrong because I didnt suffer from their issues. Thing is I do suffer from some of these bugs now since installing patches therfore I've learned the error of my ways. It seems none of us have the very same version of the game seeing as we all have varying degrees of problems with pCars.

No I get that it's not constant. I said what I said, because I don't ever have that problem, which is why it sounds strange to me, even if it only happens on occasion. Question... Does your wheel do that even on the default settings or only after you've made adjustments, regardless how minor?

inthebagbud
04-08-2015, 18:34
Brent G

At least for your own piece of mind test the wheel with the Thrustmaster checker as my post http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?36423-TX-WHEEL-KILLER&p=1073441&viewfull=1#post1073441

Brent G
04-08-2015, 18:44
No I get that it's not constant. I said what I said, because I don't ever have that problem, which is why it sounds strange to me, even if it only happens on occasion. Question... Does your wheel do that even on the default settings or only after you've made adjustments, regardless how minor?

Yeah plz dont think I was aiming anything directly at you coz I wasn't mate, some just think that coz they dont have summin it dont exist. Its certainly very strange, its like for some reason the game decides to amplify the feedback. Ive tried it default although the per car settings were JS'66%. I could try with everything at default but then having to play without touching anything is a bit shite dont ya reckon? Its not as though its all the time I just thought if there is something that has the potential to kill wheels Id firstly like us to know about it so we can do our best to avoid it and secondly for it to be remedied. As Mr Bazooka said each wheel is different, add to that all the different set ups and the complexity of the game etc and its perhaps easy to see why we all have vastly different set ups which work for our tastes aswell as the experiances we have with our racing wheels.

Brent G
04-08-2015, 18:47
Brent G

At least for your own piece of mind test the wheel with the Thrustmaster checker as my post http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?36423-TX-WHEEL-KILLER&p=1073441&viewfull=1#post1073441

Thanks mate, if I can get my head around it I'll have a crack after work tommorow. Im not to good with PC's and the like.

inthebagbud
04-08-2015, 19:59
Brent G If you need anything just pm me I will be around tomorrow

STEELJOCKEY
04-08-2015, 20:39
From memory when you run the wheel check programme on your pc, remove the rim from the wheel first, programme must run on the base only, no rim attached. Leave programme to complete all tests, disconnect from PC, reattach rim, follow normal reset and recalibration in PCars.

Landrover
04-08-2015, 21:01
Hello,
Been a lurker here for a couple weeks. But never registered because it looked a bit like a boot camp run by a few nob polishers.
Now though it seems like free speech has hit the forum.,as a lot of the polishers seem to have abandoned ship.
Great game bit of a con though.

Landrover
04-08-2015, 21:03
Thrustmaster IMO all wheels very shabby quality and I had trouble getting a refund

bumpkin
04-08-2015, 22:03
Sorry, I have to go with the game, not necessarily about FFB, but the feel and forces do change without doing anything, I have felt a difference between race sessions ie qualy then race and differences when the game goes into one of it's wobbly modes and makes you reset.

No other XB title does this and on the PC, Assetto Corsa and Dirt Rally feel the same EVERYTIME you play.

Haiden
04-08-2015, 22:15
Yeah plz dont think I was aiming anything directly at you coz I wasn't mate, some just think that coz they dont have summin it dont exist. Its certainly very strange, its like for some reason the game decides to amplify the feedback. Ive tried it default although the per car settings were JS'66%. I could try with everything at default but then having to play without touching anything is a bit shite dont ya reckon? Its not as though its all the time I just thought if there is something that has the potential to kill wheels Id firstly like us to know about it so we can do our best to avoid it and secondly for it to be remedied. As Mr Bazooka said each wheel is different, add to that all the different set ups and the complexity of the game etc and its perhaps easy to see why we all have vastly different set ups which work for our tastes aswell as the experiances we have with our racing wheels.

You have updated your firmware, right. Sorry, I can't remember if that was already answered. I can't really think of anything else. I was talking about the defaults in the global settings, not per car. You're right, that would be limiting.

Schnizz58
04-08-2015, 22:18
You have updated your firmware, right. Sorry, I can't remember if that was already answered. I can't really think of anything else. I was talking about the defaults in the global settings, not per car. You're right, that would be limiting.
I'm pretty sure Brent has. I know I have. It doesn't make sense that it's the wheel (in my case anyway) because it only happens when cornering.

Brent G
05-08-2015, 07:14
I'm pretty sure Brent has. I know I have. It doesn't make sense that it's the wheel (in my case anyway) because it only happens when cornering.

Yeah I have the latest firmware, I've also carried out multiple reset and re calibrations. With the settings I use my TX performs well and gives a pretty realistic feel. It's just the occasional what we're calling corrupt feedback that gave me concerns on wether or not it was possible for this bad feedback to break wheels.

Brent G
05-08-2015, 07:19
Hello,
Been a lurker here for a couple weeks. But never registered because it looked a bit like a boot camp run by a few nob polishers.
Now though it seems like free speech has hit the forum.,as a lot of the polishers seem to have abandoned ship.
Great game bit of a con though.

Yep and they've probably jumped ship because of the state of the game. I used to defend project cars but I've learned the error of my ways as it's now clear to me that we all suffer varying degrees of issues

Landrover
05-08-2015, 07:39
Same here Brent
I wanted so much for this to succeed. The small guy against the big etc,but as soon as I see pro2 money getting collected I feared the worst.
At least it seems we can talk without getting banned Some of the things I've seen people banned for were turning this place into the N Korean forum.
Regarding the tx I had 2 early ones admitted but they didn't last 48 hrs and now it seems they are worse due to them trying to meet demand for games like this f1 and forza6 and the rather suspect quality control has nosedived further.

baz00ka
05-08-2015, 10:29
i have experienced that (very similar behaviour to the vid posted) few times before and i dont think its specific to cornering. the pattern seems to be you force the wheel one way left or right and then quickly release that force so it snaps back and enters infinite loop from there vs expected behaviour eg do a few kicks back and forth (depending on what the car is doing) then recover. so it could also happen when you hit something (forcing the wheel to avoid collision first then let go realizing its too late). i recall seeing it all the time when i was playing with deadzone and wheel movement settings. on some settings a slight snap during cornering would cause this and the only way to avoid was to drive super slow with very slow and smooth steering inputs. its clearly a bug but it seems no one from SMS seem to have acknowledged it so far. its nasty when it happens but i dont think it can damage your wheel and also you can stop it by simply grabbing the wheel, waiting a bit then letting go and it does not take much force to hold it so i wouldnt worry about that wrt wheel damage.


I'm pretty sure Brent has. I know I have. It doesn't make sense that it's the wheel (in my case anyway) because it only happens when cornering.

Brent G
05-08-2015, 11:42
Even if it isn't capable of breaking wheels it still needs bringing to the attention of the devs as it does want fixing whatever the cause may be.

baz00ka
05-08-2015, 11:49
agree, this problem has been mentioned in several threads already but no one from dev acknowledged it so far i dont think so. the only hope is someone at SMS reading at least some of those threads and taking notes and then making them into internal bug reports for devs to work.


Even if it isn't capable of breaking wheels it still needs bringing to the attention of the devs as it does want fixing whatever the cause may be.

Haiden
05-08-2015, 15:25
I'm pretty sure Brent has. I know I have. It doesn't make sense that it's the wheel (in my case anyway) because it only happens when cornering.

If you've got the right firmware, then, given the state this game is in, I think it's crazy to blame the wheel. If the game were less buggy, then I'd give it the benefit of the doubt. But in it's current state, it really makes troubleshooting hardware issues problematic. My rule of thumb would be, if it works fine in other games--F1 2015, Forza 5, etc., then it's not a wheel issue.

beetes_juice
05-08-2015, 16:13
If you've got the right firmware, then, given the state this game is in, I think it's crazy to blame the wheel. If the game were less buggy, then I'd give it the benefit of the doubt. But in it's current state, it really makes troubleshooting hardware issues problematic. My rule of thumb would be, if it works fine in other games--F1 2015, Forza 5, etc., then it's not a wheel issue.

But what if my wheel works perfect in Project Cars, F1 2015, and Forza?? :p

Schnizz58
05-08-2015, 16:15
Then you're a unicorn.

Haiden
05-08-2015, 16:28
But what if my wheel works perfect in Project Cars, F1 2015, and Forza?? :p

Then you and I are one of the lucky ones. :)

Although, I have to say, where Forza is concerned, perfect just means perfectly transmitting Turn10's crappy FFB. :)

beetes_juice
05-08-2015, 16:49
Then you and I are one of the lucky ones. :)

Although, I have to say, where Forza is concerned, perfect just means perfectly transmitting Turn10's crappy FFB. :)

Yeah Forza FFB doesn't count. Haha.

Anyway, I just read through all the posts and have seen the FFB testing thread that was going. All I see is changing this, changing that. After we got the latest patch I had to make two small changes to my FFB and have never been back to that menu since. Could all these different settings be throwing the wheel for a loop and be the root of the problem?

Think I saw a post mentioning a re-flash of the wheels firmware. Helped setup a friends wheel over the weekend and he did something during the firmware update the wheel didn't like. Got into PC and it was all over the place. Did a proper install and hasn't put the game down since.

That would be my best suggestion; start fresh (like you just got the wheel) and do a reset in the PC FFB menu.

nissan4ever
05-08-2015, 18:08
Yeah ^^^^, they've had to done something wrong. That just doesn't make sense. For 2 nights straight, I've streamed me playing Project CARS for 1 hr or so, with kinect showing me. Wheel has done nothing but what it's supposed to do. Function, correctly.

Maybe they didn't do the bootloader when they put firmware v49 on their TX. At first, I forgot to do bootloader. I went back & reinstalled with doing the bootloader, that same day.

SweeetFA
05-08-2015, 18:58
I'll throw this into the mix. I unplug my TX from both the Xbox and the wall socket after I've had my fill of racing.
When my Xbox is switched to Instant On mode, Then connect the TX to the usb, the Xbox turns on by itself.?
I'm sure it never did this before. When not in Instant On mode and connect the TX to the usb I have to touch the front of the Xbox as expected.
Is this normal for the Xbox to turn itself on when connecting the usb cale?
Cheers.

nissan4ever
05-08-2015, 19:13
I'll throw this into the mix. I unplug my TX from both the Xbox and the wall socket after I've had my fill of racing.
When my Xbox is switched to Instant On mode, Then connect the TX to the usb, the Xbox turns on by itself.?
I'm sure it never did this before. When not in Instant On mode and connect the TX to the usb I have to touch the front of the Xbox as expected.
Is this normal for the Xbox to turn itself on when connecting the usb cale?
Cheers.

I don't know, I've never tried that (console coming on in instant on when you connect TX usb). When i'm done racing, I always unplug my TX from wall & console. I never leave it plugged up.

the_monk
05-08-2015, 19:22
guys i m confused between the 458 spider & the TX 458 Italia(force feedback) but after reading this thread i m scared, dunno if getting the TX is worth the risk? also hows the mad catz pro wheel? any issues with project cars?

Cheers.

Schnizz58
05-08-2015, 19:23
Yeah Forza FFB doesn't count. Haha.

Anyway, I just read through all the posts and have seen the FFB testing thread that was going. All I see is changing this, changing that. After we got the latest patch I had to make two small changes to my FFB and have never been back to that menu since. Could all these different settings be throwing the wheel for a loop and be the root of the problem?

Think I saw a post mentioning a re-flash of the wheels firmware. Helped setup a friends wheel over the weekend and he did something during the firmware update the wheel didn't like. Got into PC and it was all over the place. Did a proper install and hasn't put the game down since.

That would be my best suggestion; start fresh (like you just got the wheel) and do a reset in the PC FFB menu.
If it was bad settings or bad firmware, it would always behave this way. It wouldn't be an intermittent problem.

beetes_juice
05-08-2015, 19:26
guys i m confused between the 458 spider & the TX 458 Italia(force feedback) but after reading this thread i m scared, dunno if getting the TX is worth the risk? also hows the mad catz pro wheel? any issues with project cars?

Cheers.

Don't recommend the Mad Catz.

Seriously don't let this thread scare you away from the TX. From my experience the TX has been quite impressive with PC; find your settings and stick with it. Just do your proper research on here and you will be good to go.

beetes_juice
05-08-2015, 19:28
If it was bad settings or bad firmware, it would always behave this way. It wouldn't be an intermittent problem.

True, I dk maybe its grabbing some crazy settings from STM when a session loads up or who knows, Antarctica. Wouldn't hurt to try though.

Schnizz58
05-08-2015, 19:34
Don't recommend the Mad Catz.

Seriously don't let this thread scare you away from the TX. From my experience the TX has been quite impressive with PC; find your settings and stick with it. Just do your proper research on here and you will be good to go.
Agreed. The TX wheel is a decent wheel for the money and there is a good ecosystem of accessories for it. This problem we're having has nothing to do with the wheel.

Efill4ziggiN
05-08-2015, 20:21
Yeah ^^^^, they've had to done something wrong. That just doesn't make sense. For 2 nights straight, I've streamed me playing Project CARS for 1 hr or so, with kinect showing me. Wheel has done nothing but what it's supposed to do. Function, correctly.

Maybe they didn't do the bootloader when they put firmware v49 on their TX. At first, I forgot to do bootloader. I went back & reinstalled with doing the bootloader, that same day.

You don't need to put it into bootlader that was for the very first tx's now they do it all for you .. What you must do is make sure that there is nothing running in the background when you do the update.... Also thustmaster are selling the TX 458 wheel base on it's own now....

baz00ka
05-08-2015, 21:08
force feedback wise TX is a much better wheel than MadCatz. when i had MadCatz it did some crazy shit with this game too at times which it never did with docile force feedback in Forza so you not gonna escape force feedback issues by picking one or the other unless you are as lucky as few posters here who never experienced any of that with TX and i'm sure there are MadCatz users like that too.

Haiden
05-08-2015, 21:17
I don't know, I've never tried that (console coming on in instant on when you connect TX usb). When i'm done racing, I always unplug my TX from wall & console. I never leave it plugged up.

Mine used to do the same thing. Pretty sure that's normal when it's in instant on mode. It's just recognizing a controller. Same thing happens when you plug in a regular Xb1 controller. Now I unplug my TX wheel, though. Because the instant on keeps it from shutting off completely. I was hearing a low level hum from it even when it was powered down.

nissan4ever
05-08-2015, 21:28
Also thustmaster are selling the TX 458 wheel base on it's own now....

Putting it into bootloader is still with the installation PDF file with their updates, I started back doing it. I know you don't have to, but I do it again now since it's still in the procedure.

Yup, I saw that on my Facebook news feed from Thrustmaster.

wearymick
05-08-2015, 22:58
It's nothing to do with the wheel firmware. Stop trying to talk it away.

justonce68
12-08-2015, 14:29
I have had the odd issue with my wheel, nothing too drastic , but there does seem to be an underlying issue with project cars and the TX wheel. I don't believe these issues have anything to do with firmware, or calibration, or resetting your xbox.
I suspect work is being done behind the scenes to sort any issues there are.
Not wishing to state the obvious but after 120 posts on this thread there is no input from any WMD members or SMS staff. Read between the lines and draw your own conclusions.

Brent G
13-08-2015, 19:57
It would seem nobody has a Barney Mcgrue as to what causes the screwy feedback. I hoped by now we'd all be a tad the wiser. Anyone?

inthebagbud
13-08-2015, 20:07
It would seem nobody has a Barney Mcgrue as to what causes the screwy feedback. I hoped by now we'd all be a tad the wiser. Anyone?

One word NO

Ok three words but you get the idea . An acknowledgement from sms would be appreciated that they are aware and are trying to resolve would be better than silence

justonce68
17-08-2015, 13:44
tumbleweed..................

Brent G
17-08-2015, 18:31
Still nothing from the devs. as to what maybe the cause? One is getting to think that they got no effin clue!

widcard
17-08-2015, 20:38
Until 3.0 drops my brand new shiny TX will receive limited exposure to this.

I also keep a strand of garlic cloves and crucifix around the Wheel in case of emergency.

AtomicSphincter
17-08-2015, 20:40
Still nothing from the devs. as to what maybe the cause? One is getting to think that they got no effin clue!

They either have no clue how to fix what their software is doing, or they just don't wanna admit that their faulty code broke multiple force feedback wheels, cause that would open up a whole new can of worms.

beetes_juice
17-08-2015, 20:43
Or its the holiday

widcard
17-08-2015, 21:40
How ironic, the ones that were getting their daily digs on xb1 guys have now been treated to the blue screen of death...

Truly amazing we're discussing any of this at all, can you imagine a thread called PS4 Killer?..... the old saying' what comes around goes around.

justonce68
18-08-2015, 07:50
isn't this why MS test the patches properly?

Bigsteviet
18-08-2015, 17:03
I posted this in the TX sticky yesterday, but I'm not sure that thread is alive anymore. Thought I'd share my experience/query in this thread - hope that's OK?

"I had a mahoosive crash with my TX at Watkins Glen and ever since, there's no FFB on impact with cars or trackside furniture. Weirdly, everything else seems right, if a little bit lighter than before.

Keep meaning to check it with FM5.

Anybody else had this?

(done a disconnect, reset, recalibrate etc)"

Brent G
18-08-2015, 20:06
I posted this in the TX sticky yesterday, but I'm not sure that thread is alive anymore. Thought I'd share my experience/query in this thread - hope that's OK?

"I had a mahoosive crash with my TX at Watkins Glen and ever since, there's no FFB on impact with cars or trackside furniture. Weirdly, everything else seems right, if a little bit lighter than before.

Keep meaning to check it with FM5.

Anybody else had this?

(done a disconnect, reset, recalibrate etc)"

Congratulations contestant it looks like you've won yourself a complete delete and re-installation!!! whoo hoo!!! or at least thats probably what its gonna take to fix it. Great innit, what a truly effed up game this really is. Project CARS C.onstant A.nnoying R.e S.ets

widcard
18-08-2015, 21:45
Congratulations contestant it looks like you've won yourself a complete delete and re-installation!!! whoo hoo!!! or at least thats probably what its gonna take to fix it. Great innit, what a truly effed up game this really is. Project CARS C.onstant A.nnoying R.e S.ets

No' Seriously' I'm thinking about putting a strand of garlic cloves and crucifix around my Wheel in case of emergency.....omg! LMAO..... can't make this stuff up!

Dynomight Motorsports
19-08-2015, 00:18
Hey guys.. I posted this in a different thread, think I should have posted this in here!
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32212-XB1-Thrustmaster-TX-Discussion&p=1087112&viewfull=1#post1087112
Just trying to find out how many people have had a TX die on them whilest playing this game. I've had many miles on my wheel with Forza before coming here and it dying. I've only put 4788 in my GT3 car. Don't know how much in other cars, but basically a total of 124 hours.

widcard
19-08-2015, 02:00
Hey guys.. I posted this in a different thread, think I should have posted this in here!
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32212-XB1-Thrustmaster-TX-Discussion&p=1087112&viewfull=1#post1087112
Just trying to find out how many people have had a TX die on them whilest playing this game. I've had many miles on my wheel with Forza before coming here and it dying. I've only put 4788 in my GT3 car. Don't know how much in other cars, but basically a total of 124 hours.

I read your pervious thread and you mentioned you noticed the wheel smelled hot, My TX is exactly one week old.

So I ran different tracks in free practice for about an hour and half to see if I could duplicate the same effect and sure enough not only could i feel the heat coming back on my fingers as I held the wheel but you could smell the fresh plastic getting hot! We could be looking at a over heat failure on the brushless motor.

Is this inadequate ventilation for the brushless motor or is the simulator over working the motor?

From everything I've read this might be the closest explanation we know to what's causing the wheel to fail?

Everybody keeps saying their wheel get's weak after a period of time?....To me that sounds like everyone is burning their brushless motor up........not good.

justonce68
19-08-2015, 07:25
Still no official response from SMS and we are told they are reading these threads.

baz00ka
19-08-2015, 12:42
@Dynomight whats the point of that exercise ? are you gonna file a class action if you get enough people ? the problem with all these wheels is that they are simply bad designs with appalling build quality on top. i have disassembled MadCatz for repair and another guy over at PS4 forum did the same for 300rs and posted pictures and his observations/conclusions. i now have TX and based on various reports its no different so i'm fully prepared it will fail eventually its just a question when not if. Forza drives those wheels at docile levels comparing to pCars. the day pCars does the same i will stop playing pCars. those consumer wheels are not built to operate at full output continuously and cant withstand the forces long term and these are facts (see Thrustmaster's own documentation where they explain builtin temperature safety force drop procedure). maybe more expensive direct driven wheels are build to last but these are simply not. their manufacturers squeeze the margin from everything. to give you an idea on how bad it is MadCatz has a 8 wire bundle coming from the rim to the base and all wires have plastic isolation on them except one. technically its not needed but the wires are shitty quality and not suitable for where they are used bc the bundle can stretch when you turn the wheel (or when it snaps abruptly due to force feedback output) so that wire without isolation is the first to go after that happens few times too many. over at PS4 forum it has been said how inadequate is the motor for the task in Thrustmasters. its basically overdriven and the heat management they have is basically a band aid. as unfortunate as it may be i now treat all these pos consumer wheels as disposables (i hear Logitech is different and could be an exception to this rule) and would gladly invest in a well designed and built wheel if thee was any other choice for Xbox. i think for the next gen i will go with PC and a good and proper wheel product as i dont see consumer wheels getting better quality wise seeing how their manufacturers squeezing every last bit of margin possible no matter the consequences.

Brent G
19-08-2015, 14:32
I read your pervious thread and you mentioned you noticed the wheel smelled hot, My TX is exactly one week old.

So I ran different tracks in free practice for about an hour and half to see if I could duplicate the same effect and sure enough not only could i feel the heat coming back on my fingers as I held the wheel but you could smell the fresh plastic getting hot! We could be looking at a over heat failure on the brushless motor.

Is this inadequate ventilation for the brushless motor or is the simulator over working the motor?

From everything I've read this might be the closest explanation we know to what's causing the wheel to fail?

Everybody keeps saying their wheel get's weak after a period of time?....To me that sounds like everyone is burning their brushless motor up........not good.

Is your fan not kicking in? My fan comes on regularly even without heavy use

Dynomight Motorsports
19-08-2015, 23:19
I heard the fan running, but then after it overheated I couldn't hear it. Don't know if it when out then the wheel died or the wheel died and now nothing comes on. @baz00ka I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think after looking at the G920 it may be the only wheel designed to handle the abuse these games are dishing out. The Logitech may be the only wheel actually worth $399.00, too bad its not due out until the end of October. I was fortunate enough to have bought a Square Trade warranty so I will be reimbursed for my purchase. I highly recommend a third party warranty from Square Trade if you buy a either TX or Madcatz online. It won't help the downtime and lost League Championships while waiting on a replacement. These wheels are total crap, for a premium price because of lack of competition. MS and Xbox created that Monopoly that Thrustmaster and Madcatz has. Fanatec has a wheel with some good fans in it that may hold up if you can afford to fork out $1000 (Not really feasible for a console Player). I don't know what we should do with the information we obtain. I just know I may taping a fan to the Servo housing of my next TX, and turning down the Tire Force.

widcard
19-08-2015, 23:31
Is your fan not kicking in? My fan comes on regularly even without heavy use

Good question, I'm sure it is but better to be safe than sorry... I'll run some laps tonight and check for that, hey' good call Brent. thanks. :D

widcard
19-08-2015, 23:39
Brent, Confirmed!..... fan is running. it's all good :D

Dynomight Motorsports
19-08-2015, 23:46
I'm pretty sure my fan was running too.. just don't know if its enough.

TAGS Battfink
20-08-2015, 17:16
You guys should play the crew if you think pcars strains the wheel. Its got nothing on the crew, anything off road inputs massive amounts of the strongest feedback ever.

If the wheel can put up with that with no issues surely its not pcars causing issues with the tx's?

(Im not asking for abuse, mearly stating my experience with the crew)