PDA

View Full Version : Track Cutting/Leaving Track Penalty Patch in Progress???



Sucramadus
02-08-2015, 20:34
Hey Guys

im new to this Board and the Game but there is one thing that immidiatly came to my attention when i played Project Cars, Single- and Multiplayer.
Will their be a Patch coming out that will fix the Track Cutting and Leaving the Track Penalty System?
I mean dont get me wrong, i think their should be penaltys for cheating and stuff, but the System in the Game at the Moment is just ridiculous!
Because you even get Penaltys sometimes, for Driving on the Curbs and when following the Line that Shows you the Perfect Way over the Track.
Also i think that, leaving the Track with 1 or 2 Tires on a Turn is a Part of Racing and no Race Driver gets his Lap Time Cut for touching the Gras a bit.

So since this seems to be a Official Board for Project Cars, is there a Patch in the making for that?
If not, it should be first thing next!!!!

Psychomatrix
03-08-2015, 09:46
There's a fix for that on the way. But they said that in races will change nothing. Only in practice and tt. They destroy they ip with that tracklimits because a lot of people are been frustrated by that. If it's really true that the tracklimits in race stays that I will stop playing the game and don't buy dlcs anymore. At some point I'm only frustrated by all the issues. But I can leave with them until they fixed. But making tracklimits that unrealistic strict is for me a huge gamebracker. All the people who are so clever should look at real races. Best example the 24hrs of 2015. Lot of people simply stop playing they come not here to the forum because there not organized like all the hotlap groups the start here whining for to wide tracklimits. I ever thought this game would be a racing sim and not a hotlap sim.

toxicfiend
03-08-2015, 11:48
my thoughts exactly when you go wide it isnt a penalty in racing and it bugs me that i go a bit wide and bam lap time invalid which annoys me. yes from what i was told there were many cutters getting good times till they a a penalty system but when you run off track that is penalty enough.

Sucramadus
03-08-2015, 12:44
The Problem is that the Penalty System in Project Cars is Bugged and cant pick right if somebody really cut a Corner or simply came of the Track. And as we said, Lap Times get cut completly even if you dare to touch the Gras with a Tire.
It just breaks the whole game and they should fix it ASAP, not just in Training and Hot Lap Mode but in General.
The Game is great but that Penalty Bug makes Races undrivable because you cant even fight with other Racers without having to get off Track to avoid Crashes or simply fight for position, because you even get Penaltied if you touch the Curbs on the Inside of Corners.

On the Dubai Autodrome i even got a Penalty after driving trough the Last Corner before Finish Line even by following the Help Line on the Exit of the Corner. This NEEDS to be fixed!

Psychomatrix
03-08-2015, 14:01
my thoughts exactly when you go wide it isnt a penalty in racing and it bugs me that i go a bit wide and bam lap time invalid which annoys me. yes from what i was told there were many cutters getting good times till they a a penalty system but when you run off track that is penalty enough.

Before patch 2.0 the tracklimits for races where ok with some exceptions. What there do in time trial doesn't mattered me. But race is a different story. Even when I deactivate flags and rules the message comes who taken sight. People who want tracklimits in races like in tt or qualify have no idea from real racing. For now I've deactivated flags and rules because it's unacceptable at the moment.

OverHaased
03-08-2015, 16:19
4 off (Over the line) should negate your lap time, and the slow down that is in play seems like a fair resolution, however many of the tracks boundaries are set incorrectly or outright wrong. (Turn exit of 8 @ Laguna if you touch the line on track right it gives a cutting track penalty, this happened twice in one race where setting up to late apex t9 by staying on track right before turn in resulted in penalty even though car was on track and possibly touched the right side tires on the line.

Sure this is just a small tunable(r.e. correctable) issue.

Being forced off track and receiving a penalty does get you rather heated up to say the least.

FoxMulder
03-08-2015, 16:46
I'd prefer at least 2 different cut track systems, a stricter for hotlapping and a more forgiving for actual races. Also it should be possible nowadays to programme a more sophisticated system that's able to distinguish deliberate cutting (like full speed cutting) from accidental cutting. This 'one system fits all situations' style system isn't doing this otherwise brilliant game any justice.

Dynomight Motorsports
03-08-2015, 18:55
There is No determination for either types of Cut. Meaning if you get loose, and get out of the throttle or bounce over the curb or lock your brakes up through a chicane it penalizes the crap out of you. Honestly, people were complaining about cutting before, then they laid down the law, and went from one extreme to the other. Some of those penalties are ridiculous.

bluesky0870
03-08-2015, 20:37
I am not a programmer or used to the world of coding, but can it be that hard to define the track limits and the definition of going off track?
On a Commodore C64 it worked with If... then... command lines. Ok, it is a long long time ago ;) , but it should be possible to define something like
"If more than 2 tyres are outside the white lines or outside the kerbs then negate current lap" and "If a car takes over under before given conditions and/or is noticeable faster than it would be by using the correct track limits, then penalize" "If 3 penalties are received then disqualify the concerned car" and as a very important one "If a car gets rammed off track, then don't penalize". That's the most annoying kind of penalties given actually.

bluesky0870
03-08-2015, 21:21
my thoughts exactly when you go wide it isnt a penalty in racing and it bugs me that i go a bit wide and bam lap time invalid which annoys me. yes from what i was told there were many cutters getting good times till they a a penalty system but when you run off track that is penalty enough.

At Hockenheim for example you can get a huge advantage by going wide off track after the first corner. The same at Silverstone after the corner (I think it is called Beckett's) in front of Hangar Straight where the cones are. For sure there are other tracks (Dubai is another one I think) where you also can gain an advantage.
So an invalid lap time in general for more than 2 wheels off the track is fair, usual and absolutely acceptable.

Adam.Freeman
03-08-2015, 21:59
I got DQ'd earlier on lap 33/57 of a FA race for dipping a wheel on the dirt making me lose control of the car which slid sideward cutting the next corner although I lost 5/6 seconds or so. Ruined my race!

Psychomatrix
04-08-2015, 03:56
At Hockenheim for example you can get a huge advantage by going wide off track after the first corner. The same at Silverstone after the corner (I think it is called Beckett's) in front of Hangar Straight where the cones are. For sure there are other tracks (Dubai is another one I think) where you also can gain an advantage.
So an invalid lap time in general for more than 2 wheels off the track is fair, usual and absolutely acceptable.

Ever seen a dtm race at hockenheim for real??????? Why you call a lap invalid and in the second part of the sentence usual, fair and acceptable. First corner in hockenheim are the tracklimits different from series to series. and when everybody can use a raceline is no advantage. Like in dtm races in hockenheim.

bluesky0870
04-08-2015, 09:35
I said that it is fair to make such a lap invalid.

Kann ich dir gerne aber auch auf deutsch übersetzen. Es ist nur fair, üblich und akzeptabel, dass eine Runde nicht gewertet wird, wenn mehr als 2 Reifen außerhalb der Strecke sind.

When everybody can use every possible raceline, why do we need track limits in general then?

If you were watching Hockenheim DTM a bit more carefully, you would have noticed that all drivers had been instructed to stay with 2 tyres at least onto the outer edge of the kerbs. To violate this too often would have led to a drive through penalty.
Here you can see that every driver respects that rule (except of the start): http://www.dtm.com/de/dtmtv/?pl=PLrjmhNF7Jz1wh8zW9Yc08LODKGDzZaCuU&v=sPbe6b8Xg0s

And to answer your question about watching a DTM Race at Hockenheim live, I can assure you that I've seen a lot of races there since the days of Klaus Ludwig, Frank Biela and later Bernd Schneider and so on.

Sucramadus
04-08-2015, 11:17
"If more than 2 tyres are outside the white lines or outside the kerbs then negate current lap" and "If a car takes over under before given conditions and/or is noticeable faster than it would be by using the correct track limits, then penalize" "If 3 penalties are received then disqualify the concerned car" and as a very important one "If a car gets rammed off track, then don't penalize". That's the most annoying kind of penalties given actually.

As i said before, i think a Penalty System is necassary in Videogames or Racing. But that System should function correctly and not Break the whole Game by putting a Speed Limit on a Person every 5 Seconds for trying to come after the other Players after you got passed by or something.
Also i would point out to you guys to stop the references to real life Racing because as hard if you may try but you cant compare one to the other than by implamanting elements of real life races into Videogames. But the Fact of the Matter is, Videogames are Videogames and Racing is Racing. And no Gamer will ever controll or feel the Car like someone in a real Race Car so you cant compare something like DTM Rules with the touching of a Line with a Tire to a Videogame since its not possible for a Player to Control that the same way as a real Driver.
So please lets keep it real here and concentrate on a Solution that will fit into a Videogame! And let us not fight eachother, instead we should bring this very important Point to the Developers of Project Cars so they can fix this asap, since we all agree on one thing that the Penalty System right now is Broken and Bugged.

KK78
04-08-2015, 11:33
Here's one, Norschliefe Online, 1hr qualifying in the Merc GT3, could not manage a 'valid' single qualifying lap due to one of the following; avoiding other cars and going off, getting pushed off track, hitting cars that themselves had crashed (which is pretty common on Nordschleife) skimming the verge to find the most optimal line or misjudging one of the 50+ corners. Now don't get me wrong I'm not a super race pro but I'll tell you this it was probably the most frustrating race gaming experience I've had in a while as I tried to nurse the car round this track for an hour but ultimately never got a time (only 2 guys did out of 15) How are you supposed to truly immerse yourself on the limit racing when 1 wheel off track can ruin 7-9 minutes of a lap.

I for one, don't see it as remotely fun.

Dynomight Motorsports
04-08-2015, 15:33
What really sucks is when you are forced by AI, or even worse a human competitor to cross track limits and force a penalty while they scoot away. A well trained driver could use those limits and Exploit them for the purpose of beating everyone else. Yes, you can be shunted and shoved off the track and incur a Penalty. That is why there is a Human element at Real Races when it comes to track limits. NASCAR uses a Virtual Inspector program for Pit Road Infractions, in fact it catches nearly 36 more infractions than the Human element per race, but each one that is spotted is reviewed by a Human before applying penalties to the drivers. Until we have real track stewards this will always be an issue. You will always have honorless jack-asses (Mostly only in sim-racing) exploiting the system, because they are bad people. And there is always some innocent sap that gets destroyed by the system in place for doing the right thing. So its a Lose-Lose situation.

Sucramadus
07-08-2015, 12:06
Could we please get this whole Issue back on Top since it is a very Important One that needs to be fixed rather than arguying over real life Racing or some Achievement Stuff?
I mean sorry guys but, before you get worked up for DLC´s and Achievments should we not consider getting System Failures and Bugs like these out of PC?

KkDrummer
07-08-2015, 12:33
Could we please get this whole Issue back on Top since it is a very Important One that needs to be fixed rather than arguying over real life Racing or some Achievement Stuff?
I mean sorry guys but, before you get worked up for DLC´s and Achievments should we not consider getting System Failures and Bugs like these out of PC?

did you read the new patch's note? there is some news there on track cutting...

KK78
07-08-2015, 18:26
Just as a bump, two recent instances I had in the RUF GT3 Championship of this very issue, the first is just crazy?!?! The 2nd gives me a track cutting warning even though Mr BMW Z4 is clearly the culprit (I'm on PS4)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRVmUjjc8Sk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMnV2UHoFPQ

FoxMulder
07-08-2015, 18:39
Hockenheim is known and fixed in 3.0 I believe. Looking forward to the changes and the further improvements down the months, though not quite the advanced cut track system I'd like to see but we're getting there boys I'm confident.

Doug914
07-08-2015, 23:22
Yep, that one's fixed.

Logicsays
10-08-2015, 10:10
I absolutely love this game, time trials are my forte, trying to get in the top twenty on every track in every category. Agree that in races going off track in a race situation and getting penalised is a pain.
But I really do hope that in time trial the track cutting problem is sorted, for example Le,Mans in prototype category, the top ten or so times are achieved by completely cutting out the ford chicanes at the end of the lap, by going straight up the pit entry lane and cutting across at full speed, yet put a wheel on the grass approaching Arnage and you get an invalid lap.
These cheated times need to be removed from the leader boards.

Sucramadus
10-08-2015, 10:50
I absolutely love this game, time trials are my forte, trying to get in the top twenty on every track in every category. Agree that in races going off track in a race situation and getting penalised is a pain.
But I really do hope that in time trial the track cutting problem is sorted, for example Le,Mans in prototype category, the top ten or so times are achieved by completely cutting out the ford chicanes at the end of the lap, by going straight up the pit entry lane and cutting across at full speed, yet put a wheel on the grass approaching Arnage and you get an invalid lap.
These cheated times need to be removed from the leader boards.

As said in the Thread, as a Challenge in TT those Time Penaltys are good. But getting those Speed Cuts ( Youre Car gets slowed down ) in a Race because you got a bit of Track or even Slammed from someone who does not know what Brakes in a Car are.

Those are Things that need to be a Penalty, absolutly slamming others in a Corner or crashing others on Purpose because you r a sore Loser, those are Things that need Penaltys and not Clean Drivers that need to get off Track because other Racers are Fighting and you need to avoid a Crash or something like that.

MXR SMILER
12-08-2015, 15:54
A huge problem in regard to cutting/penalties is the fact that no machine/computer/console will ever be able to apportion blame (without huge processing power and advanced programming ) fairly - I just accept that these things will happen and do my best to avoid them. I am very happy to hear that the cutting issues are being addressed but think we will have to see the results in TT after the reset - I am sure we'll see the usual suspects finding the shortest route round the tracks - if the measures taken are effective then those 'routes' will be The Racing Line as it should be ..... IMO

KK78
12-08-2015, 17:37
A huge problem in regard to cutting/penalties is the fact that no machine/computer/console will ever be able to apportion blame (without huge processing power and advanced programming ) fairly - I just accept that these things will happen and do my best to avoid them. I am very happy to hear that the cutting issues are being addressed but think we will have to see the results in TT after the reset - I am sure we'll see the usual suspects finding the shortest route round the tracks - if the measures taken are effective then those 'routes' will be The Racing Line as it should be ..... IMO

To be fair though there are good and bad examples, Driveclub is a good one where the time trials are now highly reliable because the tracks are almost impossible to cheat on. Granted this was tweaked a month or so after release but it's probably the best example I've seen, also in MP they implemented a system where static or slow moving cars 'ghost' out and rammers get severe slow down penalties whether they hit another car or the environment (so it also stops wall runners)

Sucramadus
13-08-2015, 08:46
I dont know why this Thing always gets back to TT? Dont you guys know and get the Fact that the whole thing interrupts Races and Qualifying too?
As i said before, i dont care about someone wanting a Challenge on TT, but getting a Speed Limit Penalty in a Race or getting ur Time Cut every Lap in Qualifying is the real Problem here.


A huge problem in regard to cutting/penalties is the fact that no machine/computer/console will ever be able to apportion blame (without huge processing power and advanced programming ) fairly - I just accept that these things will happen and do my best to avoid them.

And exactly this is why we need that Penalty System overlooked and redone the right way. Simply because, even in a Simulator like PC, you CANT take the Racing Rules out of real Racing Series. Why? Because as said before, a Gaming Console/Videogame doesn´t have Marshalls and Race Control to overlook certain Accidents for the Players.

That is why we need a complete reconstruction of the Penalty System, because the System as it is with the invisible Walls around the Track Lines that state "Every Part of youre Car that passes here gets a Penalty" is simply unusable for Videogame proportions!