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View Full Version : Will there ever be a rating system? Public lobbies are a mess



Notorious
03-08-2015, 15:07
So the title pretty much says it all. There is an incredible amount of frustration in public lobbies:

- Turn one is a guaranteed carnage every single race
- People join the track without checking their mirrors
- People under brake too much and use other cars as a means to get through a corner
- People rarely make space for overtaking
- People reset their car with oncoming traffic

I realize it wouldn't be easy implementing one, and even if there are enough people online to make it work effectively you'd probably save it for Pcars 2 (If that'll ever get 7,000,000 in funding). But I wonder what everyone's opinion is about the matter.

I for one think a rating system would put the good with the good and the bad with the bad. If people prefer to play destruction derby let them, but don't let them ruin the experience of the more seasoned drivers.

I created this thread purely to talk about a solution for the frustration a lot of people have with public lobbies, so advising me to join a racing team and race in private lobbies won't be necessary :cool:

Eric Rowland
03-08-2015, 16:03
I stopped going in there a while back. Maybe all the children will find an new game and go away leave us and pcars alone. Or....("Now you boys go upstairs and rock out in grandma's attic.")

diesel97
03-08-2015, 17:06
Is there something SMS is waiting for ? Is there something that needs to be fixed first ? We haven't heard anything about this since BEFORE launch . A update on this would be nice .

thanks

hkraft300
03-08-2015, 17:25
There's a hundred threads on the same topic, also discussing solutions - some great solutions have been put forward. Try a search and see how many results you get.
Regardless of what system you implement, someone will get around it, have a bad day and rage out, etc
World is full of idiots (not you, OP, I mean the online drivers you speak of)
Find a good group to race with. Simple. There are some great drivers in the public lobbies who I've had awesome races with and added to my list. Australian region PS4 club gets together almost every night and they're a good bunch. Unlike some, I'm not willing to stay offline "until SMS do something about MP". I waited long enough for this game I'm gonna do what I can to bloody well enjoy it ;)
In terms of driver quality, I sincerely thought the PC guys would be better off than console but it seems not. Maybe get a PS4 because honestly it's not so bad. Had an awesome Lotus 98T race tonight, 20 laps in the rain at Hockenheim. No wreckers. LMP1 race at la Sarthe with a full lobby, started in P3 and got to P2 before the first chicane. Got away clean, but a handful of the drivers in that lobby are dirty and I avoid them.

diesel97
03-08-2015, 17:34
I understand the find a club , buy a ps4 (thats a joke) hell most people just say dont race on line ,thats a good fix . All i would like to hear from SMS is the progress on the rep system. Has it turned into one of those "coming soon " that has a 50/50 chance of making it at all.

hkraft300
03-08-2015, 17:39
Couldn't care less for a rep system.
Pick any active member of this forum, chances are you'll have a good race with them.
I have 300+ hours logged mostly in public MP lobbies and it's great.

AlanK
03-08-2015, 17:59
There's a hundred threads on the same topic.

Yup, and I read 'em all! If SMS has any interest, I expect it's way down the to do list below making the game/sim work properly on three platforms, which must be a nightmare. I've yet to find a club that doesn't require far more time than I have to take part, with long quali sessions, warm ups and long races.

The general consensus so far appears to be that public lobbies set to full damage and cockpit view deter the idiots, but at present finding such races involves diving in and out of each race lobby in order to see its settings. So, if only as a short-term fix, I would think improving the online race list to include more info about the settings for each race would be an improvement. Then anyone wanting a clean race could see at a glance where their best chance lies.

I would guess that any rating system would use the Reputation feature of Pcars, but I'm fairly sure I read that it doesn't yet work. If so, I don't see there's any chance of a rating system until it does.

hkraft300
03-08-2015, 18:24
I can confidently say they will do something about the lobby/MP situation, and I'm also curious to see what.
Ye I'd like a host kick option and more lobby details displayed before joining.
Full damage option is by no means a deterrent- maybe cockpit view/ manual but they love to end the race for someone I keep it off when I host.

Flaw3dGenius
03-08-2015, 19:03
Would much rather see a Penalty system than a rating system.

hkraft300
03-08-2015, 20:49
Again, who gets the penalty if I'm brake checked into a corner? If I'm following a player close and fast approaching a brake zone and he slams the brakes early - I get the penalty for smashing into him. Or if a player spins in front of me mid corner and I collect him - I get penalised where on both our parts it was an accident. With full/performance damage on, both our cars are wrecked and race is effectively over anyway. How does this system distinguish between a genuine mistake/accident/ racing incident and an intentional wrecking?
Or if you're rammed - they may get the penalty but you're off track anyway with a track cut penalty and/or damaged car - the wrecker has done his deed and your race is still over.
Bring in a complex collision detection system for the penalty - wrecker will just give you a little love tap to push you wide - penalty system doesn't trigger because collision was below threshold and your race is over.
Easy said, mate. How complex do you want the system? It takes time and resources, and it will never be perfect. As a result the same people will be back on the forums and YouTube channels bitching and moaning about it anyway.
Host kick option and maybe a spectate mode - gives the lobby host the power to kick/ban wreckers. Just make sure you or a buddy is hosting. Easy enough to implement. Someone wrecks you or a mate or you see him track blocking/ ramming etc - kick him.
Not having a go at you - I'm just throwing out some ideas against automated rating/penalty system. Yes there are good systems out there. With pCars as it is, cost:benefit ratio to me doesn't work out.
"They" won't stop ramming, wrecking blocking etc

In saying all that, since a recent Codemasters title release, I see a lot less wreckers and track blockers lately on PS4.
Most are just bad drivers or... (insert expletive of choice here) :)

Flaw3dGenius
03-08-2015, 22:08
Again, who gets the penalty if I'm brake checked into a corner? If I'm following a player close and fast approaching a brake zone and he slams the brakes early - I get the penalty for smashing into him. Or if a player spins in front of me mid corner and I collect him - I get penalised where on both our parts it was an accident. With full/performance damage on, both our cars are wrecked and race is effectively over anyway. How does this system distinguish between a genuine mistake/accident/ racing incident and an intentional wrecking?
Or if you're rammed - they may get the penalty but you're off track anyway with a track cut penalty and/or damaged car - the wrecker has done his deed and your race is still over.
Bring in a complex collision detection system for the penalty - wrecker will just give you a little love tap to push you wide - penalty system doesn't trigger because collision was below threshold and your race is over.
Easy said, mate. How complex do you want the system? It takes time and resources, and it will never be perfect. As a result the same people will be back on the forums and YouTube channels bitching and moaning about it anyway.
Host kick option and maybe a spectate mode - gives the lobby host the power to kick/ban wreckers. Just make sure you or a buddy is hosting. Easy enough to implement. Someone wrecks you or a mate or you see him track blocking/ ramming etc - kick him.
Not having a go at you - I'm just throwing out some ideas against automated rating/penalty system. Yes there are good systems out there. With pCars as it is, cost:benefit ratio to me doesn't work out.
"They" won't stop ramming, wrecking blocking etc

In saying all that, since a recent Codemasters title release, I see a lot less wreckers and track blockers lately on PS4.
Most are just bad drivers or... (insert expletive of choice here) :)
If a player brakes and you ram into him like you say then yeah you get the penalty.

Im not a programmer the issues you raise should be upto SMS to figure out.

Was it not Toca that had a pretty good penalty system in place? If not Toca it was around that period. Worked 90% of the time which is insanely better how most console racers are these days.

the-stig
03-08-2015, 22:14
All going to be Introduced in pcars 2 lol

hkraft300
04-08-2015, 07:18
If a player brakes and you ram into him like you say then yeah you get the penalty.

Im not a programmer the issues you raise should be upto SMS to figure out.

Was it not Toca that had a pretty good penalty system in place? If not Toca it was around that period. Worked 90% of the time which is insanely better how most console racers are these days.

I meant as in the car ahead brakes super early, before the brake zone, to be an arsehole and give me a penalty. If I brake late and hit him at the back then yes, I deserve the penalty.
The issues I raise are not coding issues - I'm not a programmer. Issues I raise are what affects us on track.
There are plenty of games with a decent system. It's far from impossible.
If pCars were to have any such system, however, I'd turn them off and run private lobbies to avoid someone being unfairly penalised. I have a good bunch of racers on my PSN list I'm confident to turn off all penalties because I know none will be cutting track to gain advantage.
Most of us take pride in our driving skills and I'm sure so do you.
If you're in an online lobby and have a good clean battle on track with a stranger, introduce yourself and make a pCars friend to race with in future.
Add me on PS4 I'll invite you to mine and my friends lobbies :) be prepared for a lot of setup talk and LMP love ;)

mister dog
04-08-2015, 10:08
http://www.projectcarsgame.com/online.html

Scroll down, rep feature is coming to PCARS 1.

fa-racing
04-08-2015, 15:37
http://www.projectcarsgame.com/online.html

Scroll down, rep feature is coming to PCARS 1.

Funny, it hasn't been put in the game.. Any reason why?

Mahjik
04-08-2015, 17:17
Funny, it hasn't been put in the game.. Any reason why?

Likely the same reason pitstops aren't in yet... not ready for release...

mister dog
04-08-2015, 19:51
Likely the same reason pitstops aren't in yet... not ready for release...
And it has only been 3 months since release. Pitchforks and torches can sit in the storage for now.

fa-racing
04-08-2015, 20:41
And it has only been 3 months since release. Pitchforks and torches can sit in the storage for now.

Get your pitch forks
I've got
Standard
---E
Fancy
---€
Broken
---L

Toxic
04-08-2015, 21:01
I meant as in the car ahead brakes super early, before the brake zone, to be an arsehole and give me a penalty. If I brake late and hit him at the back then yes, I deserve the penalty.
The issues I raise are not coding issues - I'm not a programmer. Issues I raise are what affects us on track.
There are plenty of games with a decent system. It's far from impossible.
If pCars were to have any such system, however, I'd turn them off and run private lobbies to avoid someone being unfairly penalised. I have a good bunch of racers on my PSN list I'm confident to turn off all penalties because I know none will be cutting track to gain advantage.
Most of us take pride in our driving skills and I'm sure so do you.
If you're in an online lobby and have a good clean battle on track with a stranger, introduce yourself and make a pCars friend to race with in future.
Add me on PS4 I'll invite you to mine and my friends lobbies :) be prepared for a lot of setup talk and LMP love ;)

Like with Grosjean and verstappen in Monaco.. the driver smashing into the back gets the penalty.

I cannot see how this can be fairly avoided unless collisions are turned off or.... we ask Charlie Whiting to review all incidents and data... in which case you would get the penalty still.

FS7
04-08-2015, 21:35
Suggestions I posted in another forum:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/online-driver-rating-system.316969/

hkraft300
05-08-2015, 06:34
Ye Toxic like the Grosjean/Verstappen incident at Monaco.
I'm saying if I'm Verstappen, I expect a penalty. Being sco close to the braking zone I'd have pulled out of his draft ready to out brake him for the next turn and avoid collision in case his tires are bad and he brakes a fraction early. It's playing safe. But if Grosjean braked even earlier, long before the brake zone just so I'd hit him in the back (in a sim situation where no lives/livelihoods are at stake) I would get unfairly penalised by an auto system. Hence my aversion.

thomasjohansen
05-08-2015, 07:02
Again, who gets the penalty if I'm brake checked into a corner? If I'm following a player close and fast approaching a brake zone and he slams the brakes early - I get the penalty for smashing into him. Or if a player spins in front of me mid corner and I collect him - I get penalised where on both our parts it was an accident. With full/performance damage on, both our cars are wrecked and race is effectively over anyway. How does this system distinguish between a genuine mistake/accident/ racing incident and an intentional wrecking?
Or if you're rammed - they may get the penalty but you're off track anyway with a track cut penalty and/or damaged car - the wrecker has done his deed and your race is still over.
Bring in a complex collision detection system for the penalty - wrecker will just give you a little love tap to push you wide - penalty system doesn't trigger because collision was below threshold and your race is over.
Easy said, mate. How complex do you want the system? It takes time and resources, and it will never be perfect. As a result the same people will be back on the forums and YouTube channels bitching and moaning about it anyway.
Host kick option and maybe a spectate mode - gives the lobby host the power to kick/ban wreckers. Just make sure you or a buddy is hosting. Easy enough to implement. Someone wrecks you or a mate or you see him track blocking/ ramming etc - kick him.
Not having a go at you - I'm just throwing out some ideas against automated rating/penalty system. Yes there are good systems out there. With pCars as it is, cost:benefit ratio to me doesn't work out.
"They" won't stop ramming, wrecking blocking etc


In Live for speed, some bot-servers, had the solution, that, when contact had happened, the one who hit the other, got a warning or even a delayed (30 sec) kick, then the other who got hit, were asked by the bot, "press 1 for forgive, or press 2 for kick".
For the most times this solved the rammer problem.

Also, when someone have asked for a vote kick, everyone are asked to press 1 for kick or 2 for decline.

pressing 1 or 2 ingame while driving, is almost possible for everyone without getting too disturbed.

hkraft300
05-08-2015, 07:07
That's sounds legit Mr Johansen
I'd go with such a system. It's not fully automated and gives player control. But the Grosjean/Verstappen situation Toxic mentioned would still cause problems for a clean racer, no?
Again that's just one circumstance, and I'd just have to be extra careful to avoid the penalty situation if an auto marshal was implemented. Generally yes it would clean up the lobbies a fair way. Until then, well, see above suggestions to help you have some fun and good racing :)

Bruusie
05-08-2015, 16:35
Not a bad system...similar to Counterstrike solution to 'friendly fire' and we all know how successful that little franchise has been.

Toca also had a great system of penalties...not foolproof but a generally good deterrent and made for better racing experience giving a real focus on avoiding other cars.

Mr Akina
06-08-2015, 10:14
FM6 is introducing an iRacing style system so if you are a clean racer, you will be matched with others.

Slowsley
06-08-2015, 19:22
FM6 is introducing an iRacing style system so if you are a clean racer, you will be matched with others.

I've been waiting to see how long that news took to break....

mister dog
07-09-2015, 21:29
I just wanted to bump this thread asking if we could have an update about the online rating system and improved lobby features?
This as i think online is probably one of the higher priorities at the moment to keep that part of the community happy, as waiting a long time before implementing improvements might mean a lot of online players jumped ship by that time.

Giving a little hint would mean a lot http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6666.gif

For the record i'm not an online player myself, but it's one of the biggest gripes with many people at the moment.

Murt
08-09-2015, 23:32
Until such a system is in place here is how I work around it:
1) Qualify in the top two rows. 1st or 2nd preferably but there are some good racers out there so not always possible. The first corner is always a lottery. Sometimes good, sometimes not. The further up the grid you are the better chance you have getting around it without any major incidents
2) be patient and eliminate mistakes. This will help with qualifying and gaining positions. Pcars is easy to finish well if you aren't making mistakes, even if you are not as quick as other drivers because any mistake can be costly.
3) again, be patient. Especially with slower traffic in front of you. Wait for the right time to pass to eliminate the chance of making mistakes
4) If behind other cars coming down a straight, pull out so you can see your brake point and give yourself a chance to pass if they brake early
5) Again, if behind another car coming up to a corner brake earlier and remain patient
6) Keep an eye on the track ahead for backmarkers that you will soon be approaching
7) Wait for the opportunity to pass backmarkers carefully

It's not going to work every time but should hopefully allow you to have more good races than bad

MLT24
09-09-2015, 04:29
SMS promoted this stuff before release but they lied and didn't put it in. Rep system, penalties, etc. And if they gave us an up to date lobby system you could find similar drivers and have better time. 98% bad drivers love assist. So if we had no assist filter then we could get better drivers together easier. Or if you like assist, then have filter where all hard core penalties are on. But for whatever reason SMS just wants to keep open online a disaster. Or maybe they just aren't talented enough to make lobbies better. And SMS won't speak a word about this no where. Come on SMS, why are you hiding from us on this subject. For god sakes step up like grownups and say something. This is probably the 10th time I have called them out in various threads of this nature. But they say nothing?
If they can't get this right there is no way in heck they they will pull off any of their lofty ideas for Pcars 2. What a joke.

Apoov
09-09-2015, 04:57
I would not get my hopes up on this.
The most likely reason this feature will not be implemented:
There simply isn't enough simultaneous online players! The current pool of players would be devided into multiple groups and then you would not find enough opponents.

hkraft300
09-09-2015, 06:16
It's not such a make or break thing.
Stop being so anti social and add some PSN/Steam/gamer tags from this forum and run private lobbies when you catch them online :p
Glass half full, my fellow e-petrol heads!

mister dog
09-09-2015, 06:24
It's not such a make or break thing.
Stop being so anti social and add some PSN/Steam/gamer tags from this forum and run private lobbies when you catch them online :p
Glass half full, my fellow e-petrol heads!
Yes that's the workaround, but people that just want to hop on and play online when they have a spare moment, should have the right to enjoy their session too. I think only a minority of folks races in a racing league, so if you don't want to lose the majority of online players you need things like stability and options to kick disruptive players.

hkraft300
09-09-2015, 08:09
Not talking about joining a league. I'm saying make some pCars friends so any time you jump on for a race or 3, you have some racer friends online to join/ who can join you and have a good race with.
Ye, it's a workaround and I myself am a big advocate of the host having kick/ban powers in public lobbies.

Plenty of people race offline only because online is so bad, and jump on this forum and together all speak of how awful public lobbies are. Yes, the state of it is unfortunate and so is human nature and the world we live in.

All I'm saying is - add each other on your platforms, say hello and have a race or 3 together.

Speaking of which: Anyone keen for a BMW M1/ Sauber C9/ Lotus 98T race right now send me an invite or a message. PSN ID below. Cheers and see you on track :)

Liquid7394
09-09-2015, 12:36
Are SMS still working on the online rep system or is it scrapped?

Johnnypenso1
09-09-2015, 14:26
Yes that's the workaround, but people that just want to hop on and play online when they have a spare moment, should have the right to enjoy their session too. I think only a minority of folks races in a racing league, so if you don't want to lose the majority of online players you need things like stability and options to kick disruptive players.As someone who is mainly interested in tuning and online racing, the driver reputation feature was probably my most anticipated feature the game. Great physics, pretty cars, great sounds, pretty tracks are great, but without the proper system for online racing it's just too chaotic online. Hosts need to be able to punt anyone at any time from any lobby. You need chat to communicate with players. Leagues are great but my schedule doesn't allow it at this point. I do understand the dilemma that devs have though. "Cleaning up" the racing online inevitably means pissing off some people who just want to crash and bash and it'll turn them away from the game. Great for me and anyone else that wants to race clean, but ultimately it costs sales although it may also attract people interested in clean racing. That's why I think the best system is to use the driver rating system but allow hosts the option of making it a requirement to join a lobby or not, and also the ability to turn it off for their own lobbies if they want to. Some people just want to crash and bang and as long as it's understood that's what a lobby is about, you shouldn't be penalized for doing so by having a driver rating system turned on at all times.

marcdxn
09-09-2015, 18:37
+1 for a driver rating system.

League racing is good but in the league I race in its a good 2 hour event with practice qualies and 34 laps on the track in the race.

Quick 5 lap races in public are the lottery its got better since release happens a little less now that someone parks on a corner smashing everyone up each time they come round but this will return again the moment the game is on a steam sale.

Please don't wipe this off the to do list devs

diesel97
11-09-2015, 13:42
will the devs ever give us and update on this ? even a snide "Smsoon" would be a welcome at this point

mister dog
11-09-2015, 21:41
will the devs ever give us and update on this ? even a snide "Smsoon" would be a welcome at this point
Second this. Rep system has been advertised on the official site since launch so it must be a WIP right SMS? SMSoon or sooner? :)