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presuming ed
03-08-2015, 21:13
Hello,

I haven't been able to play Project CARS on the Rift yet as it's too jerky. I thought this was a performance thing and with the odd update everything would be OK.

However I had a little look into it this evening and to my surprise, once I'd dropped a few settings down a bit, Afterburner was reporting a nailed on, static 75fps all the time while driving.

However, the game, especially head movement up and down, are still very jerky. I've tried turning VSync on and off and the results are maybe slightly different but still jerky.

Anyone have any quick fix suggestions? i7 4790k (not overclocked) 16gb ddr3 290x(8gb) and an SSD.

Thanks!

presuming ed
05-08-2015, 10:33
Hopefully I'll get some time to look into this tonight so if anyone has any suggestions I'd be grateful. I've thought of setting the monitor refresh rate to 75hz to see if that makes any difference. It does look like a sync / tearing issue.

TrevorAustin
05-08-2015, 10:38
You are definitely using direct mode? I have to say that now I've got 75FPS it's a very smooth experience. One trick is to completely turn any anti aliasing off. I found as soon as I moved my head the FPS dropped, maybe you are missing that in afterburner. the in game anti aliasing absolutely kills the CPU for some reason on the rift, I think it must be the way it talks to the rift display driver, was never a problem in extended mode.

If you turn that off and it is better or fixed then try whatever AMD driver tools allow you to add AMD antialiasing. I can use Nvidia AA with no issues, just not the in game AA.

I'm currently running everything on ultra (literally everything or high if that's highest), no in game AA but loads of Nvidia AA and getting about 53% GPU use and no juddering.

Very hopeful the next patch plus the imminent new Oculus runtime will fix that issue.

Ramjet
05-08-2015, 13:28
The ingame AA at lowest level is 4xMSAA and is less expensive than the nvidia AA as it only applies the aliasing to those parts of the rendered scene that are needed rather than the complete image. This was always the case even from the start in extended mode when the game first supported Rift. I tested all these aa modes quite a bit recently after SLI stopped working with the Direct Mode implementation and I found nothing has changed in that respect, not on my rig anyway. I am no expert but I do not understand why or how it would be markedly different on your system Trevor.

TrevorAustin
05-08-2015, 15:30
The ingame AA at lowest level is 4xMSAA and is less expensive than the nvidia AA as it only applies the aliasing to those parts of the rendered scene that are needed rather than the complete image. This was always the case even from the start in extended mode when the game first supported Rift. I tested all these aa modes quite a bit recently after SLI stopped working with the Direct Mode implementation and I found nothing has changed in that respect, not on my rig anyway. I am no expert but I do not understand why or how it would be markedly different on your system Trevor.

Hi,

I understand what should be, but currently in game AA off is best, and MUCH less expensive than Nvidia AA. I am not talking about what should be, I am talking about very detailed tests with the rift and every combination of setting possible. It's not my system specifically, or at least I don't think so:) have you tried with the latest Nvidia driver and 0.6.0.1.

It shouldn't be how it is but it definitely is. I can run 32*CSAA and 8*SGSS for 10% less CPU than in game lowest MSAA. despite preferring in game MSAA for outright looks. There is very specifically a problem with in game MSAA to the current direct to rift 0.6.0.1 runtime, I have absolutely no doubt of that. When I play in 2D the in game AA looks better and works fine, so the rift runtimne is at fault. There are reports on several other games too, the forums are all blaming the game, however the problem is in game judder in direct mode with the latest rift and AA on. So I don't think it's the game, I think it's the runtime.

I've posted the actual results somewhere in game MSAA was something lie a 20% bigger hit than Nvidia with the combination of drivers I'm using.

Just give it a try, if it doesn't work for you you've wasted 10 minutes, if it does you gain a lot of performance:)

This was only the case after the latest Nvidia 353.62 (which may of course be optimised for the 980Ti?)

RaceNut
05-08-2015, 16:14
AC runs better in VR using the 353.12 driver with the GTX 870 too. I haven't tried it with Pcars yet though - darn Dirt Rally RX is taking up all my gaming time!

Ramjet
06-08-2015, 00:35
No worries Trevor and I am running the latest driver, plus like I said, have tried all those nvidia aa modes but the in game MSAA still gives me the best fps, as it should given the way it is programmed and that was explained fully by the head render coder from wmd a long time ago. But hey if you get better results using nvidia aa then for sure use it.

The Oculus driver is still very much work in progress and I expect it to sometimes take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, but it will get sorted soon enough. pCars is still very playable.

ps. Racenut I am also having a blast in Dirt Rally at the moment but I do prefer the point to point Rallies to the new RX championship, it is really shaping up nicely though overall. How is that 870 going ! :D

RaceNut
06-08-2015, 00:57
No worries Trevor and I am running the latest driver, plus like I said, have tried all those nvidia aa modes but the in game MSAA still gives me the best fps, as it should given the way it is programmed and that was explained fully by the head render coder from wmd a long time ago. But hey if you get better results using nvidia aa then for sure use it.

The Oculus driver is still very much work in progress and I expect it to sometimes take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, but it will get sorted soon enough. pCars is still very playable.

ps. Racenut I am also having a blast in Dirt Rally at the moment but I do prefer the point to point Rallies to the new RX championship, it is really shaping up nicely though overall. How is that 870 going ! :DHi Ramjet, the 870 is holding it's own for the most part but, DR in RX mode is not running good at all so I'm limited to playing on a single monitor. I have a GTX 980Ti incoming - should be here Friday. That should get me a little FPS boost to smooth-en out the rough edges. :)

I like DR overall but, the RX stuff is better than I had expected. It may be due to the fact that I just viewed the Bell Isle World RallyCross event on TV last week but, I find it to be quite fun. :)

TrevorAustin
06-08-2015, 07:10
No worries Trevor and I am running the latest driver, plus like I said, have tried all those nvidia aa modes but the in game MSAA still gives me the best fps, as it should given the way it is programmed and that was explained fully by the head render coder from wmd a long time ago. But hey if you get better results using nvidia aa then for sure use it.

The Oculus driver is still very much work in progress and I expect it to sometimes take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back, but it will get sorted soon enough. pCars is still very playable.

ps. Racenut I am also having a blast in Dirt Rally at the moment but I do prefer the point to point Rallies to the new RX championship, it is really shaping up nicely though overall. How is that 870 going ! :D

Agreed, i am convinced its the oculus driver not the game aa. Although i think nvidia have optimised for their 980ti a lot. As a test i chucked in a 960 last night, in game aa was less of a hit than nvidia aa, as you described, interesting.

presuming ed
07-08-2015, 13:37
Thanks for the suggestions guys but no luck. I've ensured
- that the Rift is in direct mode
- that (when in extended mode) the Rift is not the primary monitor (then switched back to direct)
- that all detail is down to a minimum
- that the graphics settings xml file has been deleted and recreated, then settings back down again
- that the game is attaining 75fps during gameplay

But still this jerkiness. It's predominantly on up and down movement and seems kind of sticky. If I move my head down quickly, the picture will 'catch' for just some fractions of a second, then jump to where my head has got to and continue rendering. I'm just out of ideas but I guess with Rift improvements on their way I should just toddle off and play AC until they're here.

TrevorAustin
07-08-2015, 13:45
Thanks for the suggestions guys but no luck. I've ensured
- that the Rift is in direct mode
- that (when in extended mode) the Rift is not the primary monitor (then switched back to direct)
- that all detail is down to a minimum
- that the graphics settings xml file has been deleted and recreated, then settings back down again
- that the game is attaining 75fps during gameplay

But still this jerkiness. It's predominantly on up and down movement and seems kind of sticky. If I move my head down quickly, the picture will 'catch' for just some fractions of a second, then jump to where my head has got to and continue rendering. I'm just out of ideas but I guess with Rift improvements on their way I should just toddle off and play AC until they're here.

To be honest your description sounds like tracking camera issues. Run afterburner during say a 10 minute stint and look at the graph for FPS (you may have to turn it on in monitoring) and see if there are dips below 75fps roughly when you get your jumps.

Also for one session completely turn off ALL in game AA and see what happens, even MSAA.

presuming ed
07-08-2015, 14:19
Thanks Trevor - I think they are all turned off. There's one - I can't remember which as I'm not too up on all this GPU stuff - that seems to only go down to 'trilinear' rather than 'off'. I leave it on that but have no idea if that's the least expensive.

Not quite the same as tracking camera issues - I've experienced that in other games and when it happens the whole display freezes but moves with my movement. In these cases it's more like the screen freezing but not moving with my movement, if you get what I mean.

The Afterburner analysis always seems locked on to 75fps. The jerkiness is very common, it's not like it's sporadic - it happens every second at least. But I will have a longer session and see if I can zoom the graph a bit to see if there's any minor spikes. Or the opposite to spikes. I don't know a word for that!

TrevorAustin
07-08-2015, 14:26
Thanks Trevor - I think they are all turned off. There's one - I can't remember which as I'm not too up on all this GPU stuff - that seems to only go down to 'trilinear' rather than 'off'. I leave it on that but have no idea if that's the least expensive.

Not quite the same as tracking camera issues - I've experienced that in other games and when it happens the whole display freezes but moves with my movement. In these cases it's more like the screen freezing but not moving with my movement, if you get what I mean.

The Afterburner analysis always seems locked on to 75fps. The jerkiness is very common, it's not like it's sporadic - it happens every second at least. But I will have a longer session and see if I can zoom the graph a bit to see if there's any minor spikes. Or the opposite to spikes. I don't know a word for that!

That's the texture filtering, not a big load.

On the odd occasion I get any DK2 glitches I see very clear dips in AB, never had it when AB is showing 75 and i've had judder or freezes, etc.

That sounds more like a hardware issue. What OS and what drivers are you on? Maybe try unplugging as many other USB devices as possible, just leaving essential for the game ones.

presuming ed
07-08-2015, 14:46
Thanks will have a go. On Windows 8.1, AMD 15.7. Obviously holding off any Windows 10 upgrade despite the computer pestering me to do so. Not many other USB devices in there beyond a keyboard and mouse, and no glitching in any other games / apps - although I've only run Assetto Corsa, Euro Truck and the parking simulator.

It's funny - with the patch coming, half of me wants to bottom this out now so that it's working when the patch comes out and the other half thinks it's a waste of time because the issues may be resolved by the patch anyway.

TrevorAustin
07-08-2015, 14:49
Thanks will have a go. On Windows 8.1, AMD 15.7. Obviously holding off any Windows 10 upgrade despite the computer pestering me to do so. Not many other USB devices in there beyond a keyboard and mouse, and no glitching in any other games / apps - although I've only run Assetto Corsa, Euro Truck and the parking simulator.

It's funny - with the patch coming, half of me wants to bottom this out now so that it's working when the patch comes out and the other half thinks it's a waste of time because the issues may be resolved by the patch anyway.

I think AMD have 15.7.1 now? Unless that's win 10 only. But I do think this patch will be a massive jump forwards for DK2 I'm not convinced yours is performance related.

Other than that I'm struggling other than a good check of afterburner stats. The AMD performance is sadly a long way behind Nvidia still in Pcars but that should result in normal judder if it was that, not the sort of glitching you're seeing. Just to be sure try playing with the head tracker disconnected?

presuming ed
07-08-2015, 14:58
That's an interesting thought. It does seem to be head movement rather than car movement that's the problem. If I keep my head still and drive then it's pretty much as it should be. It's at its worst with up and down head movement.

But it doesn't feel like it's performance related either - I get judder in the Rift in AC just on the grid before the start of the race. It's much more consistent, and the judder steps are smaller if you like. The pauses are more often but last much less time, just like, as it is, the frame rate drops. It's more consistent. In pCARS I've started with too much demand on performance and get the same judder. Once I drop the settings that goes away but I still get this - tearing almost. It still happens often, but not as often as performance related, and when it does happen the pause is much longer.

I'd assumed 15.7.1 was Windows 10 only but it appears I was wrong. Downloading now and will install and test this evening. I'll report back!

RaceNut
07-08-2015, 16:23
One issue regarding the Oculus updates going forward is some developers are getting tired of playing the update game. iRacing have apparently said that they won't update the game until v1.0 is out in Nov.(est.) and is still on 5.0 SDK and Kunos won't either. When SDK 7.0 arrives, those titles may no longer work at all so options for DK2 users will be slim until the consumer versions are available.

On the other hand, current VR performance hasn't been that great lately so maybe the new SDK will bring significant improvements in whatever is still playable. Still no word on Win10 support though.

TrevorAustin
07-08-2015, 17:06
One issue regarding the Oculus updates going forward is some developers are getting tired of playing the update game. iRacing have apparently said that they won't update the game until v1.0 is out in Nov.(est.) and is still on 5.0 SDK and Kunos won't either. When SDK 7.0 arrives, those titles may no longer work at all so options for DK2 users will be slim until the consumer versions are available.

On the other hand, current VR performance hasn't been that great lately so maybe the new SDK will bring significant improvements in whatever is still playable. Still no word on Win10 support though.

Nope sadly not, although I'm very hopeful if the redundant sli cife fix for direct to rift, i think our performance is coming back:)

presuming ed
07-08-2015, 20:00
Well a little progress - from unexpected quarters. I'd tried everything and I was ready to give up when I thought 'I wonder if a little CPU overclock would make a difference'.

And it did. Just a little overclock - motherboard recommended for stock cooler but it made a very noticeable difference. The car track combination I was testing - Formula B at Barcelona was almost smooth on an empty circuit. I then tried Monaco which was more jerky, especially at high demand points like coming out of the tunnel at the top of the hill.

So I'm happy enough now that this is a performance thing. I just don't have enough grunt at the moment. There are hopefully optimisations coming from all quarters so I will now just sit tight and report back as and when updates arrive and OSs become installable.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

TrevorAustin
07-08-2015, 20:34
Well a little progress - from unexpected quarters. I'd tried everything and I was ready to give up when I thought 'I wonder if a little CPU overclock would make a difference'.

And it did. Just a little overclock - motherboard recommended for stock cooler but it made a very noticeable difference. The car track combination I was testing - Formula B at Barcelona was almost smooth on an empty circuit. I then tried Monaco which was more jerky, especially at high demand points like coming out of the tunnel at the top of the hill.

So I'm happy enough now that this is a performance thing. I just don't have enough grunt at the moment. There are hopefully optimisations coming from all quarters so I will now just sit tight and report back as and when updates arrive and OSs become installable.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Have you not read my thread with all the cpu tests in:) hunt it down, searching for oculus should sort it. The rift and pcars is a cpu killer:)
I did assume you'd have seen that being a rift user.

I'm guessing your gpu use was stuck around the low 50s to 60%s?

presuming ed
07-08-2015, 22:09
Have you not read my thread with all the cpu tests in:) hunt it down, searching for oculus should sort it. The rift and pcars is a cpu killer:)
I did assume you'd have seen that being a rift user.

I'm guessing your gpu use was stuck around the low 50s to 60%s?

I had read your thread and had meant to reference it in my post. It was really useful. I just thought that I wasn't maxing the CPU because it wasn't at 100% - very much as you anticipate I think it was around the 50-60 mark. Also I thought I was putting less demand on with no AI or multiplayer.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Hopefully there's room here for optimisation.

TrevorAustin
08-08-2015, 09:51
I had read your thread and had meant to reference it in my post. It was really useful. I just thought that I wasn't maxing the CPU because it wasn't at 100% - very much as you anticipate I think it was around the 50-60 mark. Also I thought I was putting less demand on with no AI or multiplayer.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Hopefully there's room here for optimisation.

Very much so i think, cpu seems to become a problem for yhe rift at about 80% for any single core. I think there is loads to come. I'm very hopeful that the next patch will make a very big difference, the redundant sli render paths is where i think/hope the performance blockage was. We'll see soon i hope.