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View Full Version : FFB Changes in 2.0 worse then before?



VulcanVFX
06-08-2015, 23:20
So I don't know how other's feel but I had my FFB setup on all cars prior to this update (yes it's been awhile but I kinda lost the feel to play this game for awhile) anyways past few days I've been testing and the FFB is way to strong as compared to usual. The bumps feel the same but the feel of the road or the car's weight going into corners is literally like 2 or 3 times stronger then it used to be. It's not like this on PC either. Just kinda ruined the game for me that there's not a universal setting for this instead I have to go back through each and every car to try and find what's causing this. Anyways, anybody else notice this change and what value should I adjust to make this game enjoyable for more then 30 mins?

MUFFlerDRIVAR
06-08-2015, 23:30
Try dropping your tire force down, when 2.0 arrived I dropped mine gradually from 100 down to 40 trying various levels on the way down to that level

wearymick
07-08-2015, 02:39
Universal problem. I've got my tyre force down to 20 to cancel out the uneven-ness of the lateral load effects.

VulcanVFX
07-08-2015, 09:55
Thanks guys! I tested this before (but dramatically and quickly) but doesn't lowering the tyre force also lower the amount of impact the bumps give?

Schnizz58
07-08-2015, 14:23
Thanks guys! I tested this before (but dramatically and quickly) but doesn't lowering the tyre force also lower the amount of impact the bumps give?
Yes so you have to find that balance. If the rest of the FFB feels good but bumps are too weak, you can raise Fz.

justonce68
08-08-2015, 07:22
its the FFB setting you need to turn down not the tyre force, the tyre force lets you feel the track, the FFB setting determines how strong or weak the feedback is

Schnizz58
08-08-2015, 14:18
its the FFB setting you need to turn down not the tyre force, the tyre force lets you feel the track, the FFB setting determines how strong or weak the feedback is

I disagree. That just limits the dynamic range of the FFB system. Turn down the tire force and use the full dynamic range of the signal chain.

Haiden
08-08-2015, 15:45
I disagree. That just limits the dynamic range of the FFB system. Turn down the tire force and use the full dynamic range of the signal chain.

That's how it usually is other games. The global setting is the range of feedback--how many of the available forces do you want to feel. If PCars follows this methodology, then the master scale, at the car level, would be the strength of the FFB. I've got my global set to 100, and then adjust strength at the car level. Tire Force, I assume, is telling it what percentage of the overall FFB should be used to communicate tire related forces, which, in an indirect way, controls the overall strength of the tire force. Again, this is just my take on it, and how I've gone about making adjustments.

Schnizz58
08-08-2015, 17:00
That's how it usually is other games. The global setting is the range of feedback--how many of the available forces do you want to feel. If PCars follows this methodology, then the master scale, at the car level, would be the strength of the FFB. I've got my global set to 100, and then adjust strength at the car level. Tire Force, I assume, is telling it what percentage of the overall FFB should be used to communicate tire related forces, which, in an indirect way, controls the overall strength of the tire force. Again, this is just my take on it, and how I've gone about making adjustments.
That's better than adjusting FFB strength but using tire force is better still because it's a global parameter rather than having to change master scale (and SoP scale too) on every car. They both do almost the same thing but it's just easier if there's one overall knob to turn rather than one for every car.

Sampo
08-08-2015, 17:10
With patch 3.0 there will come a choice between the old FFB (pre 1.4 or classic choice) and the new FFB (default choice), so just hang in there. I myself prefer the old one (classic).

VulcanVFX
09-08-2015, 01:47
So let's say the Tire force doesn't work for me, what values would I turn down on each car for this to help? The SoP Lateral and Fy?

Schnizz58
09-08-2015, 03:16
So let's say the Tire force doesn't work for me, what values would I turn down on each car for this to help? The SoP Lateral and Fy?
Yeah probably. First I'd get tire force set for the overall level of FFB you want and then start tweaking the individual inputs. I'd also do them one at a time.

Haiden
09-08-2015, 14:15
So let's say the Tire force doesn't work for me, what values would I turn down on each car for this to help? The SoP Lateral and Fy?

I'm no expert, but I'd get TF to where you want, and then tweak the Fy. SoP Lateral works in the same spectrum as Fy, but doesn't represent tire force. I think of SoP lateral as a complement/extra and usually keep it at zero. I find the SoP Differential setting to be far more helpful. Just make sure your Master Scale on the first FFB tab and the SoP Scale on the second are set the same.

Schnizz58
09-08-2015, 14:31
I'm no expert, but I'd get TF to where you want, and then tweak the Fy. SoP Lateral works in the same spectrum as Fy, but doesn't represent tire force. I think of SoP lateral as a complement/extra and usually keep it at zero. I find the SoP Differential setting to be far more helpful. Just make sure your Master Scale on the first FFB tab and the SoP Scale on the second are set the same.

Tire force does affect the SoP processing. Tire force is an input scaling parameter into Fx,y,z, Mz, SoP lateral and SoP differential. It does not affect the Body stuff but I don't of many people that are using that.

Haiden
09-08-2015, 17:44
Tire force does affect the SoP processing. Tire force is an input scaling parameter into Fx,y,z, Mz, SoP lateral and SoP differential. It does not affect the Body stuff but I don't of many people that are using that.

I don't know. I was told SoP Lateral is a side load force that communicates the weight shifting from left to right. As far as tire force affect on SoP, my understanding was that this was just because they use the same spectrum in the force feedback, not because tire force was being communicated through SoP lateral. Again, that's just what I've read. Doesn't really matter for me anyway, though. Tire force or side load, I've tried SoP Lateral, and my lap times are always lower when I use it, so I stopped.

Schnizz58
09-08-2015, 17:59
I don't know. I was told SoP Lateral is a side load force that communicates the weight shifting from left to right.As far as tire force affect on SoP, my understanding was that this was just because they use the same spectrum in the force feedback, not because tire force was being communicated through SoP lateral. Again, that's just what I've read.
Yes, that's what SoP Lateral is but how else can that force act upon the car but through the tires? Take a look at the block diagram in the FFB guide and you'll see that the SoP factors are scaled by tire force just like the spindle.


Doesn't really matter for me anyway, though. Tire force or side load, I've tried SoP Lateral, and my lap times are always lower when I use it, so I stopped.
That's a good enough reason! :)

VulcanVFX
10-08-2015, 01:11
Wow, thanks for all your help guys! I think I'm just going to try turning down the TF first and see if the gets it to atleast playable. That way it's quicker and I can just wait till Forza 6 or 3.0 to come out but if that doesn't work then I'll mess with the SoP Laterial and FY. BTW if you guys haven't there's a website you should go to for tuning ur FFB, it's awesome!

http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/

Schnizz58
10-08-2015, 15:01
Wow, thanks for all your help guys! I think I'm just going to try turning down the TF first and see if the gets it to atleast playable. That way it's quicker and I can just wait till Forza 6 or 3.0 to come out but if that doesn't work then I'll mess with the SoP Laterial and FY. BTW if you guys haven't there's a website you should go to for tuning ur FFB, it's awesome!

http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/
That website is an online version of Jack Spade's tweaker files.

inthebagbud
11-08-2015, 07:58
For information

Extract from FFB guide

Tire Force ( Tire Force )
FORCE FEEDBACK CALIBRATION
This is simply an overall multiplier on all of the input tire forces. Note that G forces, the input
to Gut, are not scaled with this parameter. Use this parameter to scale for a controller overall.

Use SpindleMasterScale to scale per car or setup.

and "flow for the FFB setup"

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and full document

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