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Dutchmountains
09-08-2015, 05:42
I cant find the random failures from the AI?
Is it in this patch?
Please make it happen because endurance races comes much more to life with it then.

Is there any information about this how the things are going at the moment?

Cholton82
09-08-2015, 06:45
I'm pretty sure it's not in this patch but I was under the impression that it's something they have looked into and it's a matter of scaling it correctly so your not left as the only driver in say a 24hr event .
I hope they do integrate this as it certainly does give you a buzz when your struggling to hunt down a guy and all of a sudden a huge cloud of white smoke emerges .

Random failures for both Ai and player would be awesome , it's gutting I'm sure when your gearbox goes and your race is over but that's sport , of course I'm sure there are those who would prefer not to have player failures so it could be a switchable feature .

Dutchmountains
09-08-2015, 09:10
I'm pretty sure it's not in this patch but I was under the impression that it's something they have looked into and it's a matter of scaling it correctly so your not left as the only driver in say a 24hr event .
I hope they do integrate this as it certainly does give you a buzz when your struggling to hunt down a guy and all of a sudden a huge cloud of white smoke emerges .

Random failures for both Ai and player would be awesome , it's gutting I'm sure when your gearbox goes and your race is over but that's sport , of course I'm sure there are those who would prefer not to have player failures so it could be a switchable feature .

Yes thats what i also know.
I was wondering how the situation is now.
So members of wmd do you know something more already?

Manmadesmiith
09-08-2015, 09:14
Random failures would be awesome

flymar
09-08-2015, 09:23
AFAIR general consensus was that this kind of failures while "awesome" to some players are too punishing without a reason.
Long race and in the last lap you got the message - Sorry but our random number generator chosen you to be a victim - sorry... not nice.
So random thingys were limited to pit stops - loosing bolts, problem with electricity and similar. You might loose couple of seconds there.

Perhaps something changed in that regard but that is what I remember.

Dutchmountains
09-08-2015, 10:04
AFAIR general consensus was that this kind of failures while "awesome" to some players are too punishing without a reason.
Long race and in the last lap you got the message - Sorry but our random number generator chosen you to be a victim - sorry... not nice.
So random thingys were limited to pit stops - loosing bolts, problem with electricity and similar. You might loose couple of seconds there.

Perhaps something changed in that regard but that is what I remember.

If they make failures for the ai then its ok by me and a lot of players.

mrbrownnose
09-08-2015, 10:08
Next patch needs to be all about fixing MP for xbone. Forza is on the horizon and with 24 player lobbies it could drain out the last players on xbone. Just saying

Fanapryde
09-08-2015, 10:12
I cant find the random failures from the AI?
Either I don't know what this is all about, or you don't race enough.. :)

In endurance races as well as in sprint taces, I have seen AI going off track, hitting barriers, taking each other out, etc...
I remember a 6hr at Sonoma, where after some four hours into the race, at least eight cars were in the pits, and never got back on track.
I'd say these things would count as random failures ?

AfterAll14
09-08-2015, 11:27
AFAIR general consensus was that this kind of failures while "awesome" to some players are too punishing without a reason.
Long race and in the last lap you got the message - Sorry but our random number generator chosen you to be a victim - sorry... not nice.
So random thingys were limited to pit stops - loosing bolts, problem with electricity and similar. You might loose couple of seconds there.

Perhaps something changed in that regard but that is what I remember.

Random number generator is not how it is should be done. Devs need to learn something about reliability theory of machines and mechanisms.
It has solid mathematical model, and it is not something to discuss. It should be build in game physics, like aerodynamics.
You don't discuss either we need aerodynamics or not, and how you should make it work, right? So if you build correct reliability physics model there are no such problem as "should we implement it into the game?".

Nats
09-08-2015, 11:50
No AI failures arent in the patch according to the feature list and neither is random career weather, or in-race saving, or custom championships - the features I want to see most. The patch doesnt have much in it for me really - I guess the track cutting being improved will be good. Thats about it for me.

Konan
09-08-2015, 12:56
Either I don't know what this is all about, or you don't race enough.. :)

In endurance races as well as in sprint taces, I have seen AI going off track, hitting barriers, taking each other out, etc...
I remember a 6hr at Sonoma, where after some four hours into the race, at least eight cars were in the pits, and never got back on track.
I'd say these things would count as random failures ?

In the beginning of a race there is some mayhem (sometimes) but the rest you describe i haven't seen yet...

Lagoa
09-08-2015, 13:01
Yeah would like to see some AI mistakes aswell.. They should go off track from time to time, or enter the corner the wrong way... I race at 90% and they race too perfect.. Never one mistake..

giulianbu
09-08-2015, 13:12
what I do not see in the notes of the patch is the fix the bug rescue broken !!! why!!?? they can not fix it ?? this is the most serious bugs in the game and in 22 years and the first time that I find

Fanapryde
09-08-2015, 13:46
In the beginning of a race there is some mayhem (sometimes) but the rest you describe i haven't seen yet...
Maybe you are allways leading and never see what happens in the field behind you ?
Or maybe it is because I am racing with AI at 80% (previous season at 70%) and they are more prone to mistakes than set at a higher level.
Though that should not make any difference for cars breaking down...

Dutchmountains
09-08-2015, 13:56
What i mean is that if you play a rated endurance race lets say 24hrs at a 1/20 ratio thats 1 hour and 12 minutes, thers not much happen with the ai.
The only thing i do is put the tire wear on 3X.
Then they have much punctures etc etc.

But real broken downs in that time there aint so much as in real.

Konan
09-08-2015, 14:50
Maybe you are allways leading and never see what happens in the field behind you ?
Or maybe it is because I am racing with AI at 80% (previous season at 70%) and they are more prone to mistakes than set at a higher level.
Though that should not make any difference for cars breaking down...

Played up to 70% difficulty so far....i'll give it a try at 80% then...thank you for the info.

Fanapryde
09-08-2015, 14:54
What i mean is that if you play a rated endurance race lets say 24hrs at a 1/20 ratio thats 1 hour and 12 minutes, thers not much happen with the ai.
The only thing i do is put the tire wear on 3X.
Then they have much punctures etc etc.

But real broken downs in that time there aint so much as in real.
Ah, OK, that could be where the difference is. I race (nearly) allways at 100% duration.

Fanapryde
09-08-2015, 14:56
Played up to 70% difficulty so far....i'll give it a try at 80% then...thank you for the info.
Things I mentioned also happen with AI at 70%.
But as Dutchmountains wrote: maybe it is because I race at 100% duration.
That would make sense...

Konan
09-08-2015, 15:02
Things I mentioned also happen with AI at 70%.
But as Dutchmountains wrote: maybe it is because I race at 100% duration.
That would make sense...

Nope...i race at 100% endurance too...

Lawndarts
09-08-2015, 15:13
Random failures are not good game design despite how realistic it is. It's like randomly throwing up a "game over" screen in any other game. AI random failures just adds a bit of attrition. I think random mistakes in the AI, like a couple drivers that are like Moldinado (sp?) would work, but mistakes that can lead to failures would be a lot more interesting than just loosing power on a straight because your fuel pump died...

Another option would be increasing the probability of failure if your running your car to hard when the temp or oil light is lit up, something that forces you to manage the car if you push it too hard. This could be a way to implement more mechanical failures but not make them arbitrarily random.

Fanapryde
09-08-2015, 15:25
Nope...i race at 100% endurance too...
There goes my theory...:congratulatory:

falm
09-08-2015, 15:38
Another option would be increasing the probability of failure if your running your car to hard when the temp or oil light is lit up, something that forces you to manage the car if you push it too hard. This could be a way to implement more mechanical failures but not make them arbitrarily random.

Thought exactly this is happening anyway when damage is set to real? Over rev / heat (for some time) a lot or switch down gear to fast and your engine will break. Always hit curbs hard an your suspension will suffer. Don't know if AI is affected also.

Update: OP in this thread implies that AI suffers also from damage and mechanical failures http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?34128-Car-is-getting-ghosted-AI-damage&p=1032624&viewfull=1#post1032624

flymar
09-08-2015, 19:15
Random number generator is not how it is should be done. Devs need to learn something about reliability theory of machines and mechanisms.
It has solid mathematical model, and it is not something to discuss. It should be build in game physics, like aerodynamics.
You don't discuss either we need aerodynamics or not, and how you should make it work, right? So if you build correct reliability physics model there are no such problem as "should we implement it into the game?".
I disagree. Putting in game such mechanisms that will be used by handful of gamers it's in my opinion waste of time. Right now tyre/suspension physics model makes the hardware sweat. Sure they can include material wear and soft body damage physics and last but not least deformable surface for those gravel traps. And then we just have to wait another 10 years for the hardware that could pull it.

Mahjik
09-08-2015, 21:30
So members of wmd do you know something more already?


Just as an FYI, the pCARS1 WMD forum is closed. The WMD pCARS1 members no longer have information in advance of anyone else. Everyone is all on equal terms as far as what is or isn't known for pCARS1.

LeMansIndy500
09-08-2015, 22:42
How about the overheated tyre issue that still persists in career mode pitstops? I really hope that with all the tyre fixes in this patch, this issue has been fixed.

Umer Ahmad
10-08-2015, 00:12
How about the overheated tyre issue that still persists in career mode pitstops? I really hope that with all the tyre fixes in this patch, this issue has been fixed.

I believe it is this fix in 3.0:

"* Fixed the issue with cold and current tyre pressure mismatches in pitstop strategy, as well as cold pressure not being correctly applied in the tyre system."

Cornflex
10-08-2015, 07:14
Unfortunately they did not include an option to save between and/or during a session. I hope for 4.0, otherwise solo mode does not make sense to me. Why set up 24h races when I cannot save my progress?
In career mode saving between sessions works already so why didn't they put it in solo mode?
Playing career mode is no option because of the non-dynamic dynamic weather.

FLX81
10-08-2015, 07:57
Top priority fixes and feature additions after patch 3 from my point of view:

1) Finally, please, for the love of God, Basketball and crying out loud, better vehicle, track and especially livery selection. I cant take the horrific current methods much longer, they are so frustrating to use. Normally, I m a sucker for liveries, but the current method of choosing them is such a chore, even I just dont bother selecting my livery anymore at this point. :hopelessness:
2) Saving mid-race. I wont start endurance racing without it, especially with the AI still being this unstable (way to many reports of players being DQ'd while AI Bob was driving because of him cutting the track or crashing into the pit walls).
3) Timed single races. Its there in career mode, why not give us the option in single races?
4) Anti-online troll methods. My proposal would be to ghost a car that is stationary for more than 3 seconds or going around the track in the wrong direction.
5) A more useful pit engineer. 90% of what Pit Radio Ben says is a waste of time. Give me real info please, not "racing for dummies 101" style noob tips and annoying motivational chitter chatter. Give me position info for me and my championship rivals, weather forecast, my teammate blocking the box, pit strategy info, let me know there was an accident in another sector etc.
6) Improved leaderboards. I know we cant have per car leaderboards, but imho they should be sorted by class, akin to the new classes (for example: A GT3 leaderboard). So that the GT leaderboard isnt dominated by the Zonda R etc. If that is not possible, at least let us sort the leaderboard by those classes to see who has the fastest GT3, LMP2 etc time.

apreston48
10-08-2015, 13:16
Next patch needs to be all about fixing MP for xbone. Forza is on the horizon and with 24 player lobbies it could drain out the last players on xbone. Just saying

I really hate that I'm agreeing with this, but I am. I may actually buy Forza simply for it's multiplayer but keep using PCars for it's career mode.

Nats
11-08-2015, 12:21
The in-ability to save in mid-game has ruined many a past game for me. From now on I am going to be specifically checking that with every game I buy.

Its something that is so easily forgotten but something that is absolutely essential for the modern older gamers with their busy family lives. When I was a student I wouldnt think twice about playing a game like Falcon 4.0 for many hours on end. Now I am lucky if I get an hour free a night to play. With the short career cup type races its not too bad as I can usually do the practice and qualifying one night and the two races the next. But there is no way I will be able to allocate even a full hour or two to try an endurance race. And that is a bit frustrating after watching all of them on Motors TV that I cant personally recreate those in the game.

I just cannot fathom why it isnt in the game already.

And yeah as for AI failures its something I really want to see in races, at least one or two cars in long races should be retiring. Oh well lets see what the patch brings.

Linus27
11-08-2015, 13:09
Random failures would be awesome

I remember playing the Geoff Crammond GP games and loving how you would be chasing an opponent only to see their car break down or crash out. Added so much more realism and excitement.

Robert Dibley
11-08-2015, 13:41
The in-ability to save in mid-game has ruined many a past game for me. From now on I am going to be specifically checking that with every game I buy.
...
I just cannot fathom why it isnt in the game already.

Quite simply because its bloody hard to do.
The "simple" method for doing it would result in a save file of around 1.8Gb in size, which I am sure would be less than popular with most people.
(It would also require more code, as every type of data would be saved, rather than just the bits that make sense to save.)

The more complex method would involve finding ways to reinstate the current "state" on every one of our systems, without a single mistake.
All it would need to bring the whole thing crashing down would be one small error, and there are a huge number of different systems which would need to be changed to support it, and hence a large number of possible places to get it wrong.

So, in my view at least, it is highly unlikely to ever be added to the game.

diesel97
11-08-2015, 13:47
Quite simply because its bloody hard to do.
The "simple" method for doing it would result in a save file of around 1.8Gb in size, which I am sure would be less than popular with most people.
(It would also require more code, as every type of data would be saved, rather than just the bits that make sense to save.)

The more complex method would involve finding ways to reinstate the current "state" on every one of our systems, without a single mistake.
All it would need to bring the whole thing crashing down would be one small error, and there are a huge number of different systems which would need to be changed to support it, and hence a large number of possible places to get it wrong.

So, in my view at least, it is highly unlikely to ever be added to the game.

Thanks for the some what indepth answer, many people think that adding a couple lines of code is all it takes to add stuff.

Jweaver
11-08-2015, 13:52
Quite simply because its bloody hard to do.
The "simple" method for doing it would result in a save file of around 1.8Gb in size, which I am sure would be less than popular with most people.
(It would also require more code, as every type of data would be saved, rather than just the bits that make sense to save.)

There is of course the PS4s "Rest" feature.. That allows you to shutdown the console and resume where you left off (like a PC Sleep/Hibernate mode).. trouble is, its a bit flaky at the moment as PC crashes abotu 80% of the time after the PS4 has been suspended.

Of course if you are not a PS4 user, this is of no use!

Schnizz58
11-08-2015, 14:00
Quite simply because its bloody hard to do.
The "simple" method for doing it would result in a save file of around 1.8Gb in size, which I am sure would be less than popular with most people.
(It would also require more code, as every type of data would be saved, rather than just the bits that make sense to save.)

The more complex method would involve finding ways to reinstate the current "state" on every one of our systems, without a single mistake.
All it would need to bring the whole thing crashing down would be one small error, and there are a huge number of different systems which would need to be changed to support it, and hence a large number of possible places to get it wrong.

So, in my view at least, it is highly unlikely to ever be added to the game.
I'm sure it isn't easy but it's very important.

Robert Dibley
11-08-2015, 14:19
I'm sure it isn't easy but it's very important.

To you, and a few other people yes.
But that doesn't make it a top priority, and in this specific case, knowing how much work would be involved, and the risk of errors arising from it, I doubt it would be considered worthwhile doing.

Robert Dibley
11-08-2015, 14:20
There is of course the PS4s "Rest" feature.. That allows you to shutdown the console and resume where you left off (like a PC Sleep/Hibernate mode).. trouble is, its a bit flaky at the moment as PC crashes abotu 80% of the time after the PS4 has been suspended.

There's a fix for a PS4 "resume from sleep" crash in the forthcoming 3.0 patch.

Schnizz58
11-08-2015, 14:40
To you, and a few other people yes.
But that doesn't make it a top priority, and in this specific case, knowing how much work would be involved, and the risk of errors arising from it, I doubt it would be considered worthwhile doing.
I understand but it makes an entire segment of the game (endurance racing) almost useless. Why include endurance racing if you can't save a session?

Robert Dibley
11-08-2015, 14:43
I understand but it makes an entire segment of the game (endurance racing) almost useless. Why include endurance racing if you can't save a session?

You can pause the game.

Fanapryde
11-08-2015, 14:46
There is of course the PS4s "Rest" feature.. That allows you to shutdown the console and resume where you left off (like a PC Sleep/Hibernate mode).. trouble is, its a bit flaky at the moment as PC crashes abotu 80% of the time after the PS4 has been suspended.

Of course if you are not a PS4 user, this is of no use!Using that option ends up in having to start over again. Tried it several times. That is no solution, sadly...

Fanapryde
11-08-2015, 14:53
To you, and a few other people yes.
But that doesn't make it a top priority, and in this specific case, knowing how much work would be involved, and the risk of errors arising from it, I doubt it would be considered worthwhile doing.
Check this poll:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35783-Your-top-3-suggestions-rankings-in-OP

Furthermore, I have no idea how difficult this woild be, but when a game like GT can do this, why on earth wouldn't it be possible in PCars ?

Nobody can drive for 24hrs in a row, there is no way to save or pause the game and or PS4, the only possible solution now is to pause the game and leave the console on, until you can continue...

Schnizz58
11-08-2015, 14:55
You can pause the game.
I can't pause the game and do something else on the Xbox though. If I do, when I come back to the game the video lags and stutters.

Christiaan van Beilen
11-08-2015, 14:59
I understand but it makes an entire segment of the game (endurance racing) almost useless. Why include endurance racing if you can't save a session?

I wonder if the guys at Le Mans ever wonder where the save button is? Honestly, saving the endurance gaming session would mean that the endurance for the driver is taken out. Which isn't really simulating things in my opinion, cause in an endurance race both the drivers and cars need to endure (and technically also the pitcrews... ish).

TexasTyme214
11-08-2015, 15:18
You can switch drivers in the pits while you're away; then, switch back once you return.

Silraed
11-08-2015, 15:25
I wonder if the guys at Le Mans ever wonder where the save button is? Honestly, saving the endurance gaming session would mean that the endurance for the driver is taken out. Which isn't really simulating things in my opinion, cause in an endurance race both the drivers and cars need to endure (and technically also the pitcrews... ish).

I understand this mindset and I take it in a lot of situations and discussions where simulations are involved. But. I don't think this mindset is the best approach for this situation, it is after all, still a game, every simulator you will find on the market is at it's heart a game made for enjoyment.

People who have young children or are caregivers or people with any kind of time restraints still have every right to enjoy the endurance side of the game as well. It is a part of the single player game, it has no impact on other players of the game, so if somebody wants the full endurance experience they still get it but people who are willing to compromise parts of the endurance aspect to be able to play and experience it then that is their choice. It doesn't make the game any less of a simulator to those that don't wish to use it.

Now if it is simply not possible to introduce, so be it, that may as well be the end of the discussion. Though I do believe if it can be introduced it should be.

FoxMulder
11-08-2015, 15:25
Maybe a save game option after a certain number of hours i.e. 2 hrs stints would be a good compromise.

Fong74
11-08-2015, 15:29
You can switch drivers in the pits while you're away; then, switch back once you return.

Exactly. Thats why this option is in the game imo...

Fanapryde
11-08-2015, 15:38
You can switch drivers in the pits while you're away; then, switch back once you return.
Yeah, right...
Have you tried that (or have you read the topics about the problems with that) ?
I guess not.
I had AI driving for a while and when I switched again (with some 3 hrs to go in the 24 hrs Le Mans) the car (I was not in control yet) slammed against something in the pitlane which lead to a DSQ...
Big fun, I assure you !!!

Fong74
11-08-2015, 15:58
Oh, ok. I was not aware of this. I just tried it once for 2-3 laps at spa with the IMSA and it worked fine. So maybe that was too short to gain a correct impression.

Nevertheless, that would be the number one option to "pause" an endurance race imo. Of course the AI driver should be able to not cause any DQs

Plato99
11-08-2015, 16:05
Yeah, right...
Have you tried that (or have you read the topics about the problems with that) ?
I guess not.
I had AI driving for a while and when I switched again (with some 3 hrs to go in the 24 hrs Le Mans) the car (I was not in control yet) slammed against something in the pitlane which lead to a DSQ...
Big fun, I assure you !!!

Surely in a real endurance race your co-driver could knacker things up for everyone too?! That's the gamble!

Cozza
11-08-2015, 16:06
well the code to save during a race is in the game
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?31020-ANSWERED-2-questions&p=986845&viewfull=1#post986845

Who knows if its gonna be added is another question.

My opinion. Yes add it.
I wanna do the full 100% enduros but I don't wanna leave my PC paused for hours on end. Power goes out, game crashes, Get hit by a game breaking bug with swap driver and well I'm gonna be angry and pissed.
And it wont hurt the 100% realism "real drivers don't save" crowd, because they don't have to save. Its a option they can chose not to do.

Fanapryde
11-08-2015, 16:31
Surely in a real endurance race your co-driver could knacker things up for everyone too?! That's the gamble!
Probably yes, but the point is that as long as these bugs are not fixed, you can only complete these 24 (25) hr races when driving yourself (if you are lucky).

B-spec BOB did a (short) nightshift during the Green Hell 25 hrs and there were no problems there.

And it is not that my co-driver messed up, the game was still in control, driving in the pitlane, when this happened. And it does happen in 90% of the cases when you take over from the AI co-driver on certain tracks.

Mascot
11-08-2015, 16:37
If people are going to create new threads I wish they'd at least give the thread a title that gives us a clue as to the subject matter.

bmanic
11-08-2015, 16:38
I understand but it makes an entire segment of the game (endurance racing) almost useless. Why include endurance racing if you can't save a session?

It's called endurance for a reason. Endure the full race or quit. There's no saving in real life either. So what's the problem here?

EDIT: ok, I do see that there are some issues but to be frank, I'm pretty sure 99.99% of the users never plan on running full 24h races.. with or without a save feature. There's tons of things I can think of that are way more important to fix/add before this feature.

Denco
11-08-2015, 16:41
I would like to see some sort of save system mid race implemented. People who are against it should just not use it, simple as that.

mister dog
11-08-2015, 16:48
Quite simply because its bloody hard to do.
The "simple" method for doing it would result in a save file of around 1.8Gb in size, which I am sure would be less than popular with most people.
(It would also require more code, as every type of data would be saved, rather than just the bits that make sense to save.)

The more complex method would involve finding ways to reinstate the current "state" on every one of our systems, without a single mistake.
All it would need to bring the whole thing crashing down would be one small error, and there are a huge number of different systems which would need to be changed to support it, and hence a large number of possible places to get it wrong.

So, in my view at least, it is highly unlikely to ever be added to the game.

I wouldn't mind a huge save file if it means we would have the ability to save during pit stops. I remember this was added in a patch to Gran Turismo 5 some years ago, and this was the trigger for me to start endurance races there.

Personally it's on top of my list too, PCARS would make for some wonderful endurance races with this option added, and like many i just cannot afford doing 2 hour+ races in one go...

Namron
11-08-2015, 16:49
It's called endurance for a reason. Endure the full race or quit. There's no saving in real life either. So what's the problem here?

EDIT: ok, I do see that there are some issues but to be frank, I'm pretty sure 99.99% of the users never plan on running full 24h races.. with or without a save feature. There's tons of things I can think of that are way more important to fix/add before this feature.


Where I agree that it's called an Endurance Race for a reason e.t.c & that in real life you don't save part way through...... But I also see the need for a save function simply if you need a Bathroom break (Or Pee or whatever you like to call it... The call of nature ;)), Maybe not as realistic as in real life but that's going to be what happens for us home players in real life.... We need to answer the call of nature & to have a save function would certainly make sense for that reason alone IMO :).....


Nam....

MysterG
11-08-2015, 16:52
Where I agree that it's called an Endurance Race for a reason e.t.c & that in real life you don't save part way through...... But I also see the need for a save function simply if you need a Bathroom break (Or Pee or whatever you like to call it... The call of nature ;)), Maybe not as realistic as in real life but that's going to be what happens for us home players in real life.... We need to answer the call of nature & to have a save function would certainly make sense for that reason alone IMO :).....


Nam....

Bathroom break = pause game for a few minutes ..... how long do you spend in the bathroom at a time :p

schneterz
11-08-2015, 16:57
I would love to see mid-race saving.
i want to do 24h races, but it is impossible for me. It would mean i have to run my ps4 5 days without turning it off.
the poll linked above in this thread, showes that people on the forum want it.
and most people here do not represent the average gamer.
there's over a million pcars players that are not on this forum, because theire time is too limited, so how should they do a 24h race?

And the reason why sms didn't implent it, is a bit weird.
Ian said they did not do it, cause people could save after every single corner.
really? That would, for me, kill the fun in gaming. And if somebody wants to do it, why not let him?
I couldnt care less what somebody does in his career mode.
and by the way, it is easier to set opponent level to 10, no need to save then, you can beat them using 4 gears only.

last but not least, some people take this waaaaay to serious.
yeh, you can not save in real life... course not. But you can not pause too.
best to take that feature out too, just to make it realistic.
Point is, if you want to do a 24h le mans in one rush, do it.
have fun and grats on having the time.
but there are a lot of players with full time jobs, a family to take care of and other stuff in real life, that needs attention.

when i was 15 and had the summer off from school, i did these races too, on GT.
but now it is impossible.
So if, like ian said, the code for saving is implented in the game, please give us the feature,
so all of us can enjoy the full game.

Fanapryde
11-08-2015, 17:07
It's called endurance for a reason. Endure the full race or quit. There's no saving in real life either. So what's the problem here?
25 hrs full race in one time ... ?


EDIT: ok, I do see that there are some issues but to be frank, I'm pretty sure 99.99% of the users never plan on running full 24h races.. with or without a save feature. There's tons of things I can think of that are way more important to fix/add before this feature.
So why did SMS implement these races to begin with ? They re-appear every season I have done until know and I do love to race them, like a lot of other people I presume.
And why would SMS spend even a trophy on it (a day in the life) ?

I personally don't care for a mid race save if the race is not longer than 4 hrs or so, but other people have less time to spend on their games and I fully understand them wanting this feature also for shorter races.
Not being able to save is a huge miss for people who do want to race the full length endurance races.
And as I said before: if even GT can implement this, why can't SMS ?

If we could pause the game and put the PS4 (in my case) to rest and then continue the race later on, that would be OK too. But guess what: it does not work. After waking the PS4 it turns out that you can start all over again.
Been there, done that, several times...

mister dog
11-08-2015, 17:09
Maybe a WMD style poll could be started: 'Mid race save feature during pitstops?'

You can bet your bottom dollar the yes camp would amount to more than 80% of the votes :)

ps: some reference material:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-jP3nOgERY

Dutchmountains
11-08-2015, 17:48
Maybe a WMD style poll could be started: 'Mid race save feature during pitstops?'

You can bet your bottom dollar the yes camp would amount to more than 80% of the votes :)

ps: some reference material:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-jP3nOgERY

But you have to say that when the game is saved you can nothing else do with Gran Turismo, if you wanna do another race then you loose youre save.

Fanapryde
11-08-2015, 17:55
But you have to say that when the game is saved you can nothing else do with Gran Turismo, if you wanna do another race then you loose youre save.
That is correct. No problem here, I have only one game.

mister dog
11-08-2015, 17:57
But you have to say that when the game is saved you can nothing else do with Gran Turismo, if you wanna do another race then you loose youre save.
Indeed, but that didn't bother me. I was happy to have the option and i actually did the 24 of Le Mans that way (during an entire week lol).

KK78
11-08-2015, 18:44
I wonder if the guys at Le Mans ever wonder where the save button is? Honestly, saving the endurance gaming session would mean that the endurance for the driver is taken out. Which isn't really simulating things in my opinion, cause in an endurance race both the drivers and cars need to endure (and technically also the pitcrews... ish).

I wonder if the Le Mans guys would be able to switch drivers without the chance of Driver B not flipping the car inexplicably on the exit and been disqualified? ;)

You see the issue here is not people not wanting authenticity but more a system/features which;
- Doesn't crash after hours and hours and hours of playing (real drivers still get paid :))
- Allows them to immerse them self in the challenge of Endurance racing with a reasonable level of flexibility (because contrary to popular belief we ain't real racing drivers and other stuff like jobs, wives, kids, cats, random acts of god do happen)
- I appreciate the 'save function' is technically difficult to implement but with the crashes/glitches it is puzzling if no solution is offered, it's like saying 'yeah we built this large chunk of the game with superb cars, events and tracks, some trophies too, oh and some in-game goals that are imperative for the completionists but, yeah, it doesn't work properly'

If you would like to spend 20 hours playing a game for it then to crash, go ahead, lap up that 'realism' and hope your console/PC doesn't melt in the process.

Now my tone is perhaps a little glib and for that I apologise but people wanting a solution is not unreasonable is it? A save function, a reliable pause function, a lowering or tweaking of the Historic goals (which you can't get without at least one Endurance Gold Accolade) a modification of the 'Day in the life' & 'Hall of fame' trophies/achievements or a fix for the game crashes would surely be a better option than simply saying; in real life bad stuff happens so the same should be true for the game?

Schnizz58
11-08-2015, 18:48
What about allowing a save only from the pits? Would that reduce the amount of data that has to be saved?

Mahjik
11-08-2015, 19:18
What about allowing a save only from the pits? Would that reduce the amount of data that has to be saved?

Ian said they would investigate that specific option. If it can happen, we will see it.

John Hargreaves
11-08-2015, 19:20
Bathroom break = pause game for a few minutes ..... how long do you spend in the bathroom at a time :p

Strictly speaking if you were going for full simulation you would just do it in your pants.

Schnizz58
11-08-2015, 19:21
Ian said they would investigate that specific option. If it can happen, we will see it.
Fair enough. If they investigate and it's not practical, then I will accept that. Thanks!

spinkick
11-08-2015, 19:27
I wonder if the guys at Le Mans ever wonder where the save button is? Honestly, saving the endurance gaming session would mean that the endurance for the driver is taken out. Which isn't really simulating things in my opinion, cause in an endurance race both the drivers and cars need to endure (and technically also the pitcrews... ish).

You can't be serious.

Have the game save when you "change drivers" and build in the time it takes to build that 1.8 gig file into the pit time it takes to change the driver. Yes, not simple, but people have come to expect a save feature in modern racing games. Perhaps pcars 2 in its early days can build in the design decision to do so.

mister dog
11-08-2015, 19:38
You can't be serious.

Have the game save when you "change drivers" and build in the time it takes to build that 1.8 gig file into the pit time it takes to change the driver. Yes, not simple, but people have come to expect a save feature in modern racing games. Perhaps pcars 2 in its early days can build in the design decision to do so.
Wouldn't like it if you had to change drivers in order to enable it, would take away the option to run the whole race by yourself ;)

bmanic
11-08-2015, 19:48
25 hrs full race in one time ... ?

Of course. That's what they do in real life? This is after all a simulator.



So why did SMS implement these races to begin with ? They re-appear every season I have done until know and I do love to race them, like a lot of other people I presume.
And why would SMS spend even a trophy on it (a day in the life) ?

Because it is a simulator? It's an option, among many others, to drive the "real deal". It is however NOT mandatory in any way. Just because there is a ridiculously hard trophy available doesn't mean that everybody has to try to get it. Some are meant to be difficult to attain. If that means driving a real life 24h race with some friends, then so be it.

As for bathroom breaks (answering the other dude): Just hit pause? Then continue. Not exactly realistic but understandable.


I personally don't care for a mid race save if the race is not longer than 4 hrs or so, but other people have less time to spend on their games and I fully understand them wanting this feature also for shorter races.
Not being able to save is a huge miss for people who do want to race the full length endurance races.

But that is my whole point. How many people do you REALLY think need this feature? We probably do need a poll (and the poll should also include the information from SMS that it is not an easy feature at all and requires significant amount of their resources. Resources that could be used for a myriad of other features.



And as I said before: if even GT can implement this, why can't SMS ?

GT is not pCars. Simple as that. There are tons of things GT doesn't have.. doesn't mean I go around stating "but even pCars has it? Why can't Kazunori's team make it happen!". There's no logic in doing these kinds of comparisons, especially after SMS has already stated the technical difficulties in such a system for pCars.



If we could pause the game and put the PS4 (in my case) to rest and then continue the race later on, that would be OK too. But guess what: it does not work. After waking the PS4 it turns out that you can start all over again.
Been there, done that, several times...

It's a bug. Fixed in v3.0 patch. Once you have that, try again.

bmanic
11-08-2015, 19:51
Furthermore, I have no idea how difficult this woild be, but when a game like GT can do this, why on earth wouldn't it be possible in PCars ?

Bad logic. This kind of reasoning just doesn't make any sense. Title X does this, why can't Title Y do the same? It's an endless illogical loop of doom. Lets not go there.

KK78
11-08-2015, 19:53
Because it is a simulator? It's an option, among many others, to drive the "real deal". It is however NOT mandatory in any way. Just because there is a ridiculously hard trophy available doesn't mean that everybody has to try to get it. Some are meant to be difficult to attain. If that means driving a real life 24h race with some friends, then so be it.



Which is fine but unless a patch 100% solves the crashing issue it's rather a stupid idea to put such a trophy in the game.

And why would you need to friends to play with you, surely it should be like real life and they don't allow their mates to take a few spins around Le Sarthe ;)

mister dog
11-08-2015, 19:57
Of course. That's what they do in real life? This is after all a simulator.
Bit of a non excuse this one, then the pause function can be cancelled also as it's meant to be a simulator.



But that is my whole point. How many people do you REALLY think need this feature? We probably do need a poll (and the poll should also include the information from SMS that it is not an easy feature at all and requires significant amount of their resources. Resources that could be used for a myriad of other features.
Trust me, majority of folks would want this for their endurance races, even if it means a big save file or it requires a significant amount of SMS's resources. It's top of the feature suggestions for a reason.


GT is not pCars. Simple as that. There are tons of things GT doesn't have.. doesn't mean I go around stating "but even pCars has it? Why can't Kazunori's team make it happen!". There's no logic in doing these kinds of comparisons, especially after SMS has already stated the technical difficulties in such a system for pCars.
GT serves as a good example of how to implement this particular feature, i'm sure PD had to make a big effort to implement this too but they did and it made a lot of people happy back in the day.

TrevorAustin
11-08-2015, 20:05
Which is fine but unless a patch 100% solves the crashing issue it's rather a stupid idea to put such a trophy in the game.

And why would you need to friends to play with you, surely it should be like real life and they don't allow their mates to take a few spins around Le Sarthe ;)

You've not watched it then:) afaik nobody does the 24 hours alone, think it's actually against the rules

KK78
11-08-2015, 20:09
You've not watched it then:) afaik nobody does the 24 hours alone, think it's actually against the rules

Yeah but he's not a friend, he's a driver, an Ai driver and is name is Bob 'the crash' Prost

Nats
11-08-2015, 20:20
The simple fact is F1 2015 has a save game feature and so even does RFactor2 have the ability to play from a saved replay. So it really isnt that big a deal. certainly not as big a deal as some people on here are making out.

If Project Cars features endurance races that are unplayable because of the lack of this simple feature that would be enough for me to move onto RFactor for my racing needs when I feel like a change, and not to Project Cars 2.

TrevorAustin
11-08-2015, 20:23
The simple fact is F1 2015 has a save game feature and so even does RFactor2 have the ability to play from a saved replay. So it really isnt that big a deal. certainly not as big a deal as some people on here are making out.

The simple fact is F1 2015 is utter dog shite, so that juat makes me think so what:) played it for less than an hour and will never play it again, so a save game feature didn't save the game.

spinkick
11-08-2015, 21:11
Bit of a non excuse this one, then the pause function can be cancelled also as it's meant to be a simulator.


Trust me, majority of folks would want this for their endurance races, even if it means a big save file or it requires a significant amount of SMS's resources. It's top of the feature suggestions for a reason.


GT serves as a good example of how to implement this particular feature, i'm sure PD had to make a big effort to implement this too but they did and it made a lot of people happy back in the day.

I'm with this guy. Using the "its a simulator" as an excuse for lack of any feature goes down a very bad road. If you dont want to use a save feature, dont, but why limit other folks?

Fanapryde
11-08-2015, 21:40
It's a bug. Fixed in v3.0 patch. Once you have that, try again.

Well, maybe I overlooked that in the Patch 3 notes, but I can't find it. Hope you are right though...

As for your other answers, do you really think they stick ? Very faint argumentation IMO, but I am not going over them again, since other people seem to have done that allready.

Oh, by the way, I won that "day in the life" trophy, that is not the reason why I want mid race save feature...

hoodi4cars
11-08-2015, 22:05
I agree with the devs here to not implement the mid-race save feature. As they say it's a complicated thing, and we need the limited resources put into things like game-breaking bugs or more indespensible features. You can just pause the game, done. For PC users, that doesn't even hinder you from doing something else on the PC or even fire up another game (okay, you might have to have a really good PC for that). And sure, for console gamers this is not possible, but to be honest I don't really understand that argument. Because in my point of view the save feature would only make sense when you just have to pause because you have something to do that has more priority than playing the game, like going to work, dealing with the kids, or simply taking a break from gaming because your eyes are tired, etc. But not just pause it and go play other games for a few days because you just want to take a break from the racing. With that attitude, what would you even need endurance races for? I mean the endurance you need for it, is what gives it its name and its charme ;) As said, just pause the game, done. Easy workaround. There's major bugs and missing features where there's no such workaround.

KK78
11-08-2015, 22:26
we need the limited resources put into things like game-breaking bugs.

Like game crashes or suspend/resume failures in Endurance races?

FLX81
11-08-2015, 22:52
As said, just pause the game, done. Easy workaround.

Easy workaround that uses a lot of electricity, will probably BBQ my PS4 because it would run for at least 5 days straight when trying to do a 24h race and keep me awake because my PS4 is connected to my bedroom TV - and when playing pcars, it sounds like a small vacuum cleaner with the fans on during racing, even when paused.

(Read: Its no acceptable workaround.)

Liquid7394
12-08-2015, 01:40
The PS4 has suspend/resume, as does the Xbox I believe. Console players can use that feature once it's patched. If SMS do decide to implement a suspend feature for endurances then they should do it for PC first and if possible the consoles could get it later.

Personally, there are at least a dozen other features I'd like in Pcars over a suspend feature for endurances. SMS should just add to Pcars 2 instead imo.

Fanapryde
12-08-2015, 04:53
U
Because in my point of view the save feature would only make sense when you just have to pause because you have something to do that has more priority than playing the game, like going to work, dealing with the kids, or simply taking a break from gaming because your eyes are tired, etc.
So ?
You are exactly proving our point here.
.......

hoodi4cars
12-08-2015, 05:14
Ok I was not aware that the pausing (or console suspending) is bugged too. If this is the case, this should be fixed, I agree. I was only commenting on the save feature.


Easy workaround that uses a lot of electricity, will probably BBQ my PS4 because it would run for at least 5 days straight when trying to do a 24h race and keep me awake because my PS4 is connected to my bedroom TV - and when playing pcars, it sounds like a small vacuum cleaner with the fans on during racing, even when paused.
It's still a workaround. There's still other things that need to be done where you don't even have such an option. Things that affect all gamers btw and not just PS4 or console users. The problem you describe here doesn't affect PC gamers. But again I was not aware the pausing is not working. When they patch that, then woudln't the problems you describe all be solved? So why a complicated save feature?

mister dog
12-08-2015, 07:13
If i take the 24hrs of Le Mans race i once did on GT5, due to my 'obligations', i could play a maximum of about 2 to 3 hours each session (a bit like a real drivers stint), so that would mean 8 days! Sorry but leaving an electrical appliance suspended for more than a week is asking for trouble.

There must be a simplified way to make a save of circumstances during a pit stop, and resuming next time you boot up the game. The fact that you couldn't access any other game modes in GT5 whilst you had an endurance race saved is probably a compromise PD had to make to make it feasable, so i'm sure something likewise is possible for PCARS also.

Please SMS, you've saved TT by adding a friends filter, save endurance racing for us regulars by adding a save during pit stops :)

KK78
12-08-2015, 07:50
I wouldn't mind if a save feature was restricted, as in it would allow a certain number of saves as per the length of the race so for 4 hour races- 1 save, 8-2 saves, 12-3 saves and so on. I'm not interested in making it easier so to speak just more possible. It's no secret that the PS4 has overheating issues and PCars along with Rocket League appear to particularly put the system under pressure (it sounds like a hovercraft) Luckily the PS4 will cut out before totally overheating due to a built in feature but that will render a race dead, it would be a huge help to have the game crashes & suspend/resume feature fixed so then I'll only have to persuade the wife I need to spend a straight 24 hours playing the game :D (I have few friends who play PCars and even fewer who would come over and spend several hours playing it if there is a chance of it going bang!) Because let's be a real for a moment even console manufacturers don't advocate playing games for 5+ hours at a stretch

To be honest if suspend/resume worked for me it would hardly be an issue, that and the game crashes (I had 5 in the Endurance Championship hence I had to abandon it) are my main frustration here.

Nats
12-08-2015, 08:24
I agree with the devs here to not implement the mid-race save feature. As they say it's a complicated thing, and we need the limited resources put into things like game-breaking bugs or more indespensible features. You can just pause the game, done. For PC users, that doesn't even hinder you from doing something else on the PC or even fire up another game (okay, you might have to have a really good PC for that). And sure, for console gamers this is not possible, but to be honest I don't really understand that argument. Because in my point of view the save feature would only make sense when you just have to pause because you have something to do that has more priority than playing the game, like going to work, dealing with the kids, or simply taking a break from gaming because your eyes are tired, etc. But not just pause it and go play other games for a few days because you just want to take a break from the racing. With that attitude, what would you even need endurance races for? I mean the endurance you need for it, is what gives it its name and its charme ;) As said, just pause the game, done. Easy workaround. There's major bugs and missing features where there's no such workaround.

Eh? Pause the game for 2 days. Yeah very likely! That's just a rather silly comment. As if anyone is going to pause a game on their computer and leave the computer running for two days or so till they want to play it again. The fact is for a lot of people the lack of this is a game breaking feature/bug. For me its something that is preventing me from playing a large portion of the game ie all the endurance races in single player. It should be in the game. There is nothing more important to me personally that being able to play the endurance races. And it is something that is making me look at Rfactor instead of this game. Its amazing how many games come out these days with essential things like this missing.

Ryzza5
12-08-2015, 08:59
I think the main points on this topic are:

pCARS simulates/dynamically calculates a lot more 'stuff' than GT5
and
Just because everyone would vote 'yes' given the option, doesn't mean they would ever use it = low ROI.

'Features B, C and H' might receive just as many yes votes AND be used by 10x as many players.


Of course, if there's already a thread on that subject, feel free to (politely) continue to voice your opinion and see if you can't convince Ian. I'm sure Robert would just love that :)

KK78
12-08-2015, 09:11
Sorry but what is the actual point of your post Ryzza? Aside from saying PCars is better than GT5 in your view and hypothesising the validity of potential polls people take the time vote on I'm at a loss as to how this addresses the discussion?

You can just say you are bored of the subject ;)

AB_Attack
12-08-2015, 09:21
Exactly. Thats why this option is in the game imo...
Pitstops are part of strategy and planned. A save is a primarily a function that is available to not lose progress due to having to attend other things. Otherwise no games would need possibility to save. Just plan to clear the game in one sitting, right? How can this issue be so difficult to comprehend? For me the saving issue is not a big deal, but I understand it. I guess I would leave the game on paus on my PC if I did such an event. I might even chose that solution over letting the co-driver lap since last time I did that he performed impossible laptimes with the settings of the car and the the way he drove. And that's not right.

Fong74
12-08-2015, 09:44
I was just stating how I understand the game design approach concerning that point.... I am not voting against the requested save-option. If you guys want/need it, I would be happy if you get it one day.

My very personal opinion:
Me, I dont need that at all. Never used it in GT, will never use it in pCars. As stated before, I race only online and up to 2-3 hours, like in RL. If I want to do "real" endurance races, I join my iRacing buddies and do it there with driver swaps etc. Its very well done there and I wished we could do it in pCars one day, too.

AB_Attack
12-08-2015, 09:48
Yup that sounds about right. The buddy endurace thing sounds cool although it would require a dedicated gaming crazy car driving buddy and I have none of them :)

Also, if this saving feature is difficult and require lots of work, that work should be put into other things I believe.

FLX81
12-08-2015, 09:54
So why a complicated save feature?

Because a pit stop save feature would also possibly help against system crashes, pit stop bugs, AI driver Bob taking over and screwing up, would give you the chance to play other games in between before continuing your endurance race (for example a quick match of rocket league with some buddies :D ) which play/suspend doesnt etc. Also there are frequent reports of longer sessions increasing the number of bugs (graphics glitches, AI shenanigans, game stuttering etc), maybe breaking such long races down into smaller parts would help with that as well?

Robert Dibley
12-08-2015, 10:57
save game systems are really not my area, so I can't give an official view on the likelihood of any specific change happening.

however knowing the game systems reasonably well, I would say that "save from pitstops" is a whole lot more likely (and would need a whole lot less data) than a save from pausing the game while out on the track.

the reason for that is simple - when in pit stops we already have to allow the physics to be stopped and restarted because we need to be able to do things like change tyres.

robdok
12-08-2015, 10:59
Save Game feature during the race is very much needed. I have children, a job and I can not play for more than two hours a day, and I'm a big fan of long-distance racing. I've got to be worse, because I need recording function ???

wicken
12-08-2015, 12:54
however knowing the game systems reasonably well, I would say that "save from pitstops" is a whole lot more likely (and would need a whole lot less data) than a save from pausing the game while out on the track.

If you guys can do the "save from pitstops", go for it! Polyphony Digital made that for Gran Turismo 5 and it worked really well, that's what I expected this game to have at launch honestly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDEVc6yr3eo

Ryzza5
12-08-2015, 12:55
Sorry but what is the actual point of your post Ryzza?

Just summing up and making sure we're all on the same page. Got nothing against GT5 (see sig YT link). :)

Mahjik
12-08-2015, 13:21
Guys, the "pitstop save" request is on Ian's list for the team to investigate:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?31020-ANSWERED-2-questions&p=987019&viewfull=1#post987019

As I said earlier, if it can happen, it likely will. So let's move on..

hoodi4cars
12-08-2015, 13:29
Eh? Pause the game for 2 days. Yeah very likely! That's just a rather silly comment. As if anyone is going to pause a game on their computer and leave the computer running for two days or so till they want to play it again. The fact is for a lot of people the lack of this is a game breaking feature/bug. For me its something that is preventing me from playing a large portion of the game ie all the endurance races in single player. It should be in the game. There is nothing more important to me personally that being able to play the endurance races. And it is something that is making me look at Rfactor instead of this game. Its amazing how many games come out these days with essential things like this missing.

There is nothing more important to you than endurance races, but then you want to take a break of several days after each couple of laps? To me it sounds as if you want to do endurance races but without the 'endurance' part. But anyways, it's not that the devs (or me btw) just don't want you to be able to enjoy endurance races. But what the devs (and me, and probably also you!) want is to fix bugs where the game crashes. Fix race-breaking bugs in pit-stop. Fix that ominous landmines that send your car flying high in the air randomly. Bugs where you have a wrong position at the end of the race. Etc. I highly doubt you would enjoy your save feature so much as long as these bugs exist. See I'm not saying the save feature idea is dumb. But there's other more crucial things to fix, unfortunately.

edit: Oh sorry, didn't want to revive this, I only noticed after posting that there's actually two more pages of dicussion since that post.

mayank61282
12-08-2015, 13:31
Hi I have Just downloaded Project cars on my PS4
But a career mode is showing me locked
please help me how to unlock it????/

please waiting for your reply guys
my email ID is mayank.ortho@gmail.com

Mahjik
12-08-2015, 13:37
Hi I have Just downloaded Project cars on my PS4
But a career mode is showing me locked
please help me how to unlock it????/


Select "new" to create a new career profile.

F2kSel
12-08-2015, 14:59
Unless I missed it I didn't see any mention of static car removal from the grid.
It would be better if a player had to click to join in the first place the current system of dumping everyone on the track is always going to be messy especially when there are long qualifying sessions.

Schnizz58
12-08-2015, 15:50
Guys, the "pitstop save" request is on Ian's list for the team to investigate:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?31020-ANSWERED-2-questions&p=987019&viewfull=1#post987019

As I said earlier, if it can happen, it likely will. So let's move on..
Agreed. I think we've about beat this one to death. Our wishes have been heard and will be granted if feasible. That's all we can ask.