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fa-racing
10-08-2015, 21:33
Hi sms, I'm just curious as to why we don't get smaller more regular patches?
There is a lot of pros to having smaller more regular patches.
Being able to receive more patches means that there is
More fixes. Less bugs that come with the patch. And if something gets fixed straight after you release a patch it doesn't have to wait nearly a whole month and a half to be put in the vanilla.

TheJay
10-08-2015, 21:44
It is probably dependent on the Sony/Microsoft certification process and it's restrictions. Maybe they can only submit patches a certain amount of times a month. Maybe they have to pay a certain amount with each submission. So submitting a whole bunch of small patches will end up costing to much.

Schnizz58
10-08-2015, 21:44
Every time you release an update it has to go through a lot of regression testing. I would guess that SMS want to limit the amount of regression testing required. Also, I think they have to pay MS & Sony every time they do one.

madmax2069
10-08-2015, 21:45
Just because the patches are smaller doesn't mean less bugs, programming doesn't work that way.

Smaller more frequently released patches will also see a influx of people saying that the game is broken due to so many patches being released, its damned if you do and damed if you don't.

More work and money actually goes into releasing more but smaller patches, then releasing fewer but bigger patches.

Then you have to understand that the majority of the hold up the after it leaves their hands it not only gets tested once, but gets tested again by SONY and Microsoft (and that takes even more time, at least a week to a few weeks before SONY or Microsoft releases it to the masses on their platforms).


Every time you release an update it has to go through a lot of regression testing. I would guess that SMS want to limit the amount of regression testing required. Also, I think they have to pay MS & Sony every time they do one.


Paying SONY and Microsoft for patches was something they did away with this console generation. Its something they did last gen.

Umer Ahmad
10-08-2015, 21:48
Some of this is likely NDA, i'm not sure how much SMS can publicly disclose about the process.

Lets assume SMS are NOT idiots and have optimized the patching frequency and size bound by the constraints of SONY/MSFT/BNAMCO/STEAM/...

In other words, it's not really worth disussing as it wont change anything. We can start a moveon.org petition but it would but futile. SMS has all the information, we dont.

For thise really interested in how games are developed i encourage you to sign up for a pcars2 account (at least the lowest tier) while the opportunity still exists. Quite educational.

TrevorAustin
10-08-2015, 21:56
What about hotfixes though? I've been watching the Assetto Corsa streams with Stafano and they seem to fix something and next thing you know, it's on steam. Is that something that could be done?

Of course, and imagine the uproar:)

Jut accept that they are doing, at least, what they think best for the game. Some of it most will agree with, some different groups will agree with, and some groups will never be happy until its all perfect before day one and fre, with a free car and DLC at least weekly.

madmax2069
10-08-2015, 22:00
What about hotfixes though? I've been watching the Assetto Corsa streams with Stafano and they seem to fix something and next thing you know, it's on steam. Is that something that could be done?

On PC yes that is possable, but not on consoles, because they have to go through another layer of testing by SONY/Microsoft before the patch is released which takes a week or longer. On PC once it gets released it gets pushed to the platform.

fa-racing
10-08-2015, 23:27
Ok, so ignoring the console side of things. Why isn't pc master race getting more frequent patches?

Neil Hopwood
10-08-2015, 23:44
Ok, so ignoring the console side of things. Why isn't pc master race getting more frequent patches?

guess you missed 2.5

madmax2069
11-08-2015, 00:20
guess you missed 2.5

This ^^^

PC got patches we haven't got until we get a major patch. The 2.5 update was a minor update that was a PC only patch, we'll get what they got in the 3.0 major patch.

Ryzza5
11-08-2015, 01:00
SMS were releasing daily builds with considerable changes/fixes/improvements during the WMD process. It's not like they've suddenly forgotten how to do this, but you have to be so much more careful when 'in production'. Testing for PC probably goes through Namco now as well.

Psychomatrix
11-08-2015, 04:37
Why should the pc been preferred? 85% of all sales go to consoles. Only with the consoles are project cars 2 possible as it's planned. So what I'm read about pc2, it will be twice as big than pcars1. So it would be not very clever to prefer 15% of all customers and risk to loose a part of the other 85%. At the end this helps nobody. Even on games like pc1 the times are gone that the pc was the best selling plattform. To keep all happy helps to survive. And some of you know, that most of the studios are closed, who've mad the best racing sims in the past.

xxTheGoDxx
11-08-2015, 08:31
Why should the pc been preferred? 85% of all sales go to consoles.Source? Otherwise please stop posting bullshit.

BTW, if you look at the recent EA and Ubisoft quarterly results you see that the PC revenue is still very close to the PS4 and way higher than the XBox One revenue.

MysterG
11-08-2015, 08:35
Source? Otherwise please stop posting bullshit.

Less of that please.

During development SMS stated it was around 90% give or take.

NemethR
11-08-2015, 08:36
This ^^^

PC got patches we haven't got until we get a major patch. The 2.5 update was a minor update that was a PC only patch, we'll get what they got in the 3.0 major patch.

Please don't blame SMS, blame Sony, and Micro$oft, who take way too long to go through the update.
If you would get 2.5 , by the time you guys would get. 3.0 PC would have like 4.0
Because for PC its a much faster process.

Will you also complain, that PC will have MODS for the game?!

Also note: I could also be angry about the fact, that the DLC to the PC is delayed, until the Consoles get their content. :)

xxTheGoDxx
11-08-2015, 08:39
@MysterG

Sorry I just hate it when people post numbers generated out of the thin air, which is way to common on the internet.

BTW, Steamspy reports around 226k owners: http://steamspy.com/app/234630

Sry for offtopic

Bealdor
11-08-2015, 08:51
@MysterG

Sorry I just hate it when people post numbers generated out of the thin air, which is way to common on the internet.

BTW, Steamspy reports around 226k owners: http://steamspy.com/app/234630

Sry for offtopic

Sales distribution is roughly:

15% PC

60% Ps4

25% Xbox

http://www.destructoid.com/project-cars-races-past-1m-sales-293372.phtml

danowat
11-08-2015, 09:20
@MysterG

Sorry I just hate it when people post numbers generated out of the thin air, which is way to common on the internet.

BTW, Steamspy reports around 226k owners: http://steamspy.com/app/234630

Sry for offtopic

You wrongly assumed it was bullshit, as it didn't align with your personal thoughts, also something very common on the internet.

NemethR
11-08-2015, 09:26
@MysterG

Sorry I just hate it when people post numbers generated out of the thin air, which is way to common on the internet.

BTW, Steamspy reports around 226k owners: http://steamspy.com/app/234630

-----

Sry for offtopic


Sales distribution is roughly:

15% PC

60% Ps4

25% Xbox

http://www.destructoid.com/project-cars-races-past-1m-sales-293372.phtml



Both make sense, if they are aproximately acurate, then it would make around 1.5 million copies sold total.
And that is a realistic number.

(226k /15 *100 = 1.506.667)

And I bet another 500k are playing the game through other means.

Invincible
11-08-2015, 09:31
Pirated you mean? I'm afraid, but I think there more than 500 k non-serious copies. Sadly.

There should be a hack added that in every illegitimate copy of the game you can't drive normal cars but only Reliant Robins.:D

NemethR
11-08-2015, 10:11
Pirated you mean? I'm afraid, but I think there more than 500 k non-serious copies. Sadly.

There should be a hack added that in every illegitimate copy of the game you can't drive normal cars but only Reliant Robins.:D

The issue is, that all games, that are steam based can be pirated easily. :(

fa-racing
11-08-2015, 10:35
http://www.greenheartgames.com/2013/04/29/what-happens-when-pirates-play-a-game-development-simulator-and-then-go-bankrupt-because-of-piracy/
read this article for a good laugh about pirating.

Psychomatrix
11-08-2015, 21:18
Source? Otherwise please stop posting bullshit.

BTW, if you look at the recent EA and Ubisoft quarterly results you see that the PC revenue is still very close to the PS4 and way higher than the XBox One revenue.

Some of the mods have wrote that in may here in the forum as answer because xbox Users feared that time the release version will not been improved. That numbers came here from the forum as 1 million copys been sales. Even when pc sales are 25 % it changes nothing that the costs for devolpment are growing and the studios need the console market. It doesn't matter me if small patches comes exclusive for pc. But as buisnessman I never would prefer one plattform to much, because it makes only sense when you have an deal in the backhand, that give you an financial advantage. Why that much studios make multiplattform productions? because you can earn more money. Not because they love suddenly consoles with their technical limits. I have no interest in pc vs. Console debates. Imo theres only the reality.

madmax2069
11-08-2015, 21:31
Please don't blame SMS, blame Sony, and Micro$oft, who take way too long to go through the update.
If you would get 2.5 , by the time you guys would get. 3.0 PC would have like 4.0
Because for PC its a much faster process.

Will you also complain, that PC will have MODS for the game?!

Also note: I could also be angry about the fact, that the DLC to the PC is delayed, until the Consoles get their content. :)

Sir where in my post was I ever complaining ?

Where in my post was I blaming sms for anything wrong ?

And yes I already know the reason why PC gets patches before console due to the extra layer of testing done by SONY/Microsoft before they release a patch.

You're jumping on the wrong person.

diesel97
11-08-2015, 21:43
Source? Otherwise please stop posting bullshit.

BTW, if you look at the recent EA and Ubisoft quarterly results you see that the PC revenue is still very close to the PS4 and way higher than the XBox One revenue.

"cough,cough" Source or it didn't happen . Pot call the kettle black much

hkraft300
12-08-2015, 01:33
Wow
Couldn't find anything else to complain about?
Now the patches are too big and you want smaller patches more often...1st world problems!

Personally I like the big patches. Gives time for issues to show up and get fixed in between.
Anyway who cares. Bring on Megapatchsuperupdateextrafeaturegamechangerawesomeness 3.0

Glass half full, lads and ladies.

fa-racing
12-08-2015, 03:47
Wow
Couldn't find anything else to complain about?
Now the patches are too big and you want smaller patches more often...1st world problems!

Personally I like the big patches. Gives time for issues to show up and get fixed in between.
Anyway who cares. Bring on Megapatchsuperupdateextrafeaturegamechangerawesomeness 3.0

Glass half full, lads and ladies.

I'm not complaining you gronk.
I'm merely asking whether it would be possible to have more smaller patches to try and get this game as playable as possible, as soon as possible..

Many game developers release 2-3 patches a month when the game is released to try and fix things asap. Where as SMS has only released 3 patches in 3 months. So they are obviously hoarding fixes to release big patches which is unnecessary for a new release game with a LOT of game breaking bugs that are still in the game 3 months later. Not to mention that I think it was Bealdor has said a while ago that the drive button lock was fixed (pretty game breaking to me) yet SMS has hoarded the fix until 3.0 which is odd that they would want to hold onto something like that.

Anyway it's there game the do what they like with it. As for me, well I won't be buying any DLC unless it is something that is extremely interesting and the game is fixed. And as for pcars2, well, I won't be buying this game at all, unless it has high ratings and the reviews aren't laden with bug reports like they were with this game. Vote with your wallet.

hkraft300
12-08-2015, 06:32
I'm sorry. I can be quite rude.
Sure the bugs were disappointing and games shouldn't be released with bugs, especially from an experienced crew.
Still there are a lot of issues/limitations behind the scenes we don't know of - can't expect them to divulge every bit of information.
So this is pCars 1 and with update 3.0 it looks like it'll be all sorted, bar a handful of minor issues.

PCars 2 can't be as bad, and if it is, SMS will have it sorted within a few patches I reckon.(edit: though it would be quite embarrassing!)
To prevent that happening, I suppose we could join WMD and be helpful contributors to the sim racing cause :)

NemethR
12-08-2015, 10:12
To prevent that happening, I suppose we could join WMD and be helpful contributors to the sim racing cause :)


I need to dsagree on that, as there were a lot (60.000+ i believe) WMD members, who should have tested the game, and they either did not, or the issues were not fixed for release.
Because of this I think it does not matter.

xxTheGoDxx
13-08-2015, 21:04
Some of the mods have wrote that in may here in the forum as answer because xbox Users feared that time the release version will not been improved. That numbers came here from the forum as 1 million copys been sales.I see I shouldn't have answered w/o doing some research and shouldn't have answered the way I did at all. I apologize.


Even when pc sales are 25 % it changes nothing that the costs for development are growing and the studios need the console market.I know that and I just answered because that 85% statement sounded like something people just make up w/o knowing specifics.
In fact I am a big fan of games not being exclusive and that includes current PC exclusive games. While sometimes exclusivity might be necessary to ensure a game developer can optimize on the given platform (like optimal mouse control and UI optimized for it or mod support, Kinect support on Xbone, the Cell architecture in the PS3, etc.) more times than not it just means that you either missing out or are forced to buy multiple platforms. Even though you should of course all buy a PC so we have one unified platform ;-)


[/B]

"cough,cough" Source or it didn't happen . Pot call the kettle black muchFair enough I guess...
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/07/ubisoft-selling-twice-as-many-ps4-games-as-xbox-one/

And I can't find the EA article anymore that I read and sadly the earnings data they released only mention one number for both consoles...but its 487m for both consoles vs. 253m for PC (and none mobile browser games) which should also mean PS4 -> PC -> Xbox One with similar portions as Ubisoft.
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ERTS/565723493x0x842488/C92865CA-CD5A-4573-B056-8A318F9D0736/FY16_Q1_Earnings_Release_vFINAL_with_press_tables.pdf
Page 16

Anyway, I am sorry I started that PC vs. console discussion that while interesting to me is completely offtopic in this thread.


Pirated you mean? I'm afraid, but I think there more than 500 k non-serious copies. Sadly.Indeed, that is why I don't have a problem with always on DRM as long as the publisher can guarantee to patch it out before the studio disappears. IMO Valve should establish something more strict like that on PC.