PDA

View Full Version : Please fix multiplayer game chat.



Dazza
16-08-2015, 23:47
Unless it was accidentally not put into the patch note, we have now been without proper in game chat for 3 months, this is a joke. Not being able to chat with friends ruins the multiplayer experience and has canceled 2 casual leagues I've been in, because of the lack of communications.

If this bug is not fix by the 15th i fear a lot of multiplayer xbox leagues will give up and move back to forza, which would be a shame because project cars is pretty dam good. Please put this as a top priority and get a fix out to us.. Hotfix if you have too :)

Thanks

DECATUR PLAYA
17-08-2015, 01:16
Pretty please.

Rockefelluh
17-08-2015, 02:56
This bug will be even more pronounced with the new lobby selection.

Ch1ps N Queso
17-08-2015, 03:26
It's a huge issue for our leagues. Starting to fear it will never be fixed. Skype is a good option but should not be needed if SMS are trying to provide a complete experience to pCARS drivers.

Good thread here about the state of multiplayer. Not one reply from SMS.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?36842-Multiplayer-future

I say this with 100% conviction, we might be better off getting a couple hundred drivers together and going forward with a friendly social media blitz on Major Nelson. Key is friendly. Perhaps we need to bring this issue to the attention of the guys that control the online experience.

Sucramadus
17-08-2015, 06:42
Guys you do know that this is the XB1 Section? And on XB1 you got something thats called a Party Chat?

madmax2069
17-08-2015, 07:18
Guys you do know that this is the XB1 Section? And on XB1 you got something thats called a Party Chat?

Yes they're full aware of the party chat system on xbox.

Who wants to continuously invite people to a party when there is supposed to be a in game voice chat ?

And who wants to continuously invite randoms into a party chat when the game is supposed to have a in game voice chat ?

All they're asking is for a working in game voice chat. Its quite annoying to have to constantly do the above because the in game voice chat doesnt work properly.

BiggNasty187
17-08-2015, 07:30
Guys you do know that this is the XB1 Section? And on XB1 you got something thats called a Party Chat?

That is NOT a solution that is supposed to be permanent, and you know it!

SMS, how could you ignore this issue for this long?

The game chat being broken for this long is COMPLETLY UNACCEPTABLE. Any member of the dev team/mod know this. Tossing around the "just use party chat" workaround for this long is just plain INSULTING!!!!

I dare an employee of SMS to address this problem in THIS THREAD. I hope they will, but I will probably be talked down to by a mod instead, thus steering the attention away from the problem raised by the OP.

My love for this game is nearly unmeasurable. But bugs like this just make me wonder if we XB1 users are actually at the bottom of the list priorities for SMS.

How can this STILL be an issue after this long? Do they even care? I'm starting to think they don't.

SMS, please feel free to jump in at anytime.

I hope this helps.

staer90
17-08-2015, 07:32
the multy for x1 It has to be redone from scratch

oscarolim
17-08-2015, 07:44
Guys you do know that this is the XB1 Section? And on XB1 you got something thats called a Party Chat?

And you know the party chat has a limit of 8 right?

NavyFlipper HUN
17-08-2015, 08:21
the party chat has a limit of 8

Don't play(speak) with more than 7 friends :D :D

Sucramadus
17-08-2015, 09:46
That wasnt supossed to be a Knock or Insult to you guys, it was more of a why dont you try this alternative
But lets be serious here, In Game Chat is in most Games a bit failing.
Its like really nothing new that In Game Chats break down!

NavyFlipper HUN
17-08-2015, 10:58
Yeah, it seriously big problem!
Our online team has on a race 12-15 player we can't communicate with each other. Tha party isn't solution because there only 8 player.
But I think it's hardware problem or something like that because when I played FM5 there was exatly same problem...even this time is that problem there too.

BulletEyeDK
17-08-2015, 11:10
Anyone out there having experience with 9-10 players in "in-game" chat recently ?

Im asking as im hosting a race tomorrow with at least 8 players... which normally will do fine with party chat, but we might be 9 or even 10... and im not to keen on the Skype solution...
Way back (i think before any patches) we went with the party chat, as "in-game" chat was a really problem for the online stability...

We have not tried it since then...

So how is it ? I reckon it's probably not that good, hence this thread, but have anyone tried it with 9-10 players ? and if so, how did that go ?

Thanks in advanvce... :)

Mike Laskey
17-08-2015, 11:32
Hi guys, nobody is ignoring you. There are quite a few threads where we've repeatedly stated our commitment to improving the quality of the game across many areas which I feel we've done and continue to do so (such as the much needed lobby experience in XB1 patch 3.0 which was definitely not a straight-forward task). We certainly make every attempt to engage openly where our resources allow. Anyway, that aside please do know that as a team we read everything and have bugs logged in our database, one of which is specifically the XB1 in-gamechat. A huge amount of XB1 MP-layer code has changed with patch 3.0 both from our side and using new and improved XDK from Microsoft, and we need this one out in the wild to accurately assess the new state of the in-game chat. The QA company specifically tested the XB1 chat in the patch 3.0 code and reported that they were unable to repro the symptoms, so once the patch is with you all please feed back here on the forum. If the problem is still there it will be next up the list to be looked at.

FederalHercules
17-08-2015, 11:40
Hi guys, nobody is ignoring you. There are quite a few threads where we've repeatedly stated our commitment to improving the quality of the game across many areas which I feel we've done and continue to do so (such as the much needed lobby experience in XB1 patch 3.0 which was definitely not a straight-forward task). We certainly make every attempt to engage openly where our resources allow. Anyway, that aside please do know that as a team we read everything and have bugs logged in our database, one of which is specifically the XB1 in-gamechat. A huge amount of XB1 MP-layer code has changed with patch 3.0 both from our side and using new and improved XDK from Microsoft, and we need this one out in the wild to accurately assess the new state of the in-game chat. The QA company specifically tested the XB1 chat in the patch 3.0 code and reported that they were unable to repro the symptoms, so once the patch is with you all please feed back here on the forum. If the problem is still there it will be next up the list to be looked at.

Thanks Mike. Information is exactly what we are after. You mention a new and improved XDK from Microsoft and that you need this "out in the wild". Does that mean that with 3.0 you expect a "change" in game-chat behavior on XB1? Or are you(we) waiting on a platform update that will allow the game to leverage changes in the XDK?

As many has suspected, it seems this was a platform issue. Ch1ps has a great idea in a earlier post and if Microsoft is the hold up, any details you can divulge to help us raise awareness to Microsoft would be most helpful.

Thanks for your reply.

BulletEyeDK
17-08-2015, 12:11
@Mike Laskey

Thanks for the heads up on the information regarding this issue

Im really looking forward to getting my hands on patch 3.0 - i really hope this issue is long gone with your new MP code...

Raven403
17-08-2015, 12:27
@Mike Laskey

Thanks for the reply, I'm sure you can understand the rising frustration about MP on Xbox, thanks for the info!

nissan4ever
17-08-2015, 13:05
@Mike Laskey, good to hear. You and the rest of the team are doing an outstanding job. It's greatly appreciated.

Mike Laskey
17-08-2015, 13:07
Thanks Mike. Information is exactly what we are after. You mention a new and improved XDK from Microsoft and that you need this "out in the wild". Does that mean that with 3.0 you expect a "change" in game-chat behavior on XB1? Or are you(we) waiting on a platform update that will allow the game to leverage changes in the XDK?

As many has suspected, it seems this was a platform issue. Ch1ps has a great idea in a earlier post and if Microsoft is the hold up, any details you can divulge to help us raise awareness to Microsoft would be most helpful.

Thanks for your reply.

Right, so it just means that we've made a lot of changes (including threading and how we make use of various cores), the XDK from MS has been continually improving (chat features included), and as since QA checked patch 3.0 VOIP we need you guys to use it and we'll go forward based upon your feedback. If it's still a problem post-patch 3.0 then we'll go in-depth with why that is (eg whether it could be related to network, account config, restrictions and so on).

Apoc112
17-08-2015, 13:40
Thank you... it's great to get this level of information about an issue, rather than just "we're investigating" or "we have found a fix". Maybe it's just my inner engineer coming out, but I like to know the how and why of things. Cheers!

FederalHercules
17-08-2015, 14:02
Thank you... it's great to get this level of information about an issue, rather than just "we're investigating" or "we have found a fix". Maybe it's just my inner engineer coming out, but I like to know the how and why of things. Cheers!

Hmm. It is great to get this information. But lets not break our arms patting SMS on the back. This particular issue has been in the game since launch and the community has done a pretty good job of communicating its details as well as finding functional workarounds. I would say the community has put as much work into troubleshooting this issue as SMS (paying SMS for the privilege to do so I might add).

And I mean no hostility towards Mike. I can't thank him enough for coming forward with this today. But then, why today? Why not tell us this as soon as patch 3.0 was announced? Maybe you were waiting for 3.0 to be live on the XB1 before giving us a heads up that you had some changes you felt would improve things? No one was expecting any improvements in multiplayer with patch 3.0 but from the sounds of it, you guys have quite a bit of work in there.

Also, I do not want to pretend this is an easy issue to solve (especially since resolution relies upon first party support). So you need the community to help with the testing. Not ideal, but I think you have a fan base that loves the game and would gladly assist with something like this.

I guess what I am saying is, lets improve our communication (SMS and community) about the multiplayer work and lets get to a more agile approach to finding resolution (i.e. lets get some of these multiplayer changes out of these massive patches that takes weeks to deliver and go to a more frequent, smaller hotfix roll out.

I know, pie in the sky, but I can hope right? :)

OverHaased
17-08-2015, 14:34
Mike Said they could not reproduce this fault in house??? Are they kidding us?

Hell I dare any person at SMS to just go launch a random on line game and see how well you can chat with the players in any lobby you join....

I am so angry about this one failure it makes me completely jaded about ANYTHING SMS says.


I have done my own part of reporting the bugs, and then using the workarounds like Skype, but it taxes the hardware to the point that it locks up, freezes and requires a complete hardstart just to come back. This has not happened in any other title so I place the problem at the feet of SMS and just like all of you,....wait for them to fix it, and then act like they are doing us all a favor.


Just fix it, it needs attention and when I hear "you can not reproduce" the one issue that never, ever, ever works....I do not believe you.

Shumway
17-08-2015, 14:44
Overhaased, Mike wrote:
"The QA company specifically tested the XB1 chat in the patch 3.0 code and reported that they were unable to repro the symptom"

Apoc112
17-08-2015, 14:49
Hmm. It is great to get this information. But lets not break our arms patting SMS on the back. This particular issue has been in the game since launch and the community has done a pretty good job of communicating its details as well as finding functional workarounds. I would say the community has put as much work into troubleshooting this issue as SMS (paying SMS for the privilege to do so I might add).

And I mean no hostility towards Mike. I can't thank him enough for coming forward with this today. But then, why today? Why not tell us this as soon as patch 3.0 was announced? Maybe you were waiting for 3.0 to be live on the XB1 before giving us a heads up that you had some changes you felt would improve things? No one was expecting any improvements in multiplayer with patch 3.0 but from the sounds of it, you guys have quite a bit of work in there.

Also, I do not want to pretend this is an easy issue to solve (especially since resolution relies upon first party support). So you need the community to help with the testing. Not ideal, but I think you have a fan base that loves the game and would gladly assist with something like this.

I guess what I am saying is, lets improve our communication (SMS and community) about the multiplayer work and lets get to a more agile approach to finding resolution (i.e. lets get some of these multiplayer changes out of these massive patches that takes weeks to deliver and go to a more frequent, smaller hotfix roll out.

I know, pie in the sky, but I can hope right? :)

By no means do I equate the clarity and quality of communication from SMS with a solution to the issues. However, the issue exists (and is presumably being worked on) whether they communicate openly with us about it or not. I'm simply saying that I appreciate that they choose to do so, rather than dismiss it or give us hand-wavy "it's being investigated" responses.

My goal is not to just pat anyone on the back. Exactly to your point, I want to encourage even more open communication about the issues in hopes of finding resolutions and setting realistic expectations for future patches.

OverHaased
17-08-2015, 16:30
Overhaased, Mike wrote:
"The QA company specifically tested the XB1 chat in the patch 3.0 code and reported that they were unable to repro the symptom"


Uhm, yea, exactly so either it does work or it does not. (It does not work pre patch 3.0 What we have now) So they can now log in using a XBox one and join a existing lobby and the chat works???


If it does not work then they have re-produced it, if the chat works they have fixed it.

How hard is that?

DECATUR PLAYA
17-08-2015, 17:32
Mike thanks for the info. I have asked for info in quite a few threads so thanks. This one feature is probably keeping your sales numbers from going through the roof so I know y'all are on it. For everybody concerned I have had game chat work for 4 straight sessions over 2 hrs of gameplay with more than 13 people in each session and you could hear everybody so it does work we just can't figure out what makes it cut out.

housty01
17-08-2015, 21:59
game chat does not and has never worked correctly for me, if involved in a lobby i complete one maybe two races game crashes completely why ?? also game freezes and have to do a hard reset to get it started again, this game is good but the community is losing patience and WMD/SMS are looking for funding for PJ2...............should they not be fixing PJ1 for XB1 first.

Mike Laskey
17-08-2015, 22:43
So yes going forward (post patch 3.0), if the problem reoccurs we really would like to collect as much info as possible about the consoles which are unable to communicate with each other which will maximise our changes for making a fix. I do hear people saying that's QA's job to sort out prior to release and to a point I agree; the only thing being that QA can't possibly recreate all the different/unique real world configs that are used out there, such as ISP's, routers, headsets, XB1 privacy configs and so on which may all be a factor.

As an aside, there's a game out there I have on my PS4 where any attempt to join an MP game results in a crash, and that game is maybe around 6 months old and no resolution (I've never managed an MP game in that title due to the crashes). So platform aside, I completely understand your frustrations with a feature that is causing problems.

Raven403
17-08-2015, 22:48
So yes going forward (post patch 3.0), if the problem reoccurs we really would like to collect as much info as possible about the consoles which are unable to communicate with each other which will maximise our changes for making a fix. I do hear people saying that's QA's job to sort out prior to release and to a point I agree; the only thing being that QA can't possibly recreate all the different/unique real world configs that are used out there, such as ISP's, routers, headsets, XB1 privacy configs and so on which may all be a factor.

As an aside, there's a game out there I have on my PS4 where any attempt to join an MP game results in a crash, and that game is maybe around 6 months old and no resolution (I've never managed an MP game in that title due to the crashes). So platform aside, I completely understand your frustrations with a feature that is causing problems.

Thanks for the feedback Mike, I assure you we appreciate it.
If I could ask what kind of things should we be looking for, what was causing the issues with chat seemingly crashing the lobby?

TrevorAustin
17-08-2015, 23:05
Right, so it just means that we've made a lot of changes (including threading and how we make use of various cores), the XDK from MS has been continually improving (chat features included), and as since QA checked patch 3.0 VOIP we need you guys to use it and we'll go forward based upon your feedback. If it's still a problem post-patch 3.0 then we'll go in-depth with why that is (eg whether it could be related to network, account config, restrictions and so on).

Now that is an awesome explanation of what's goimg on and some if the issues.hope this is a sign of detail to come!

PTG Claret
18-08-2015, 06:13
Don't play(speak) with more than 7 friends :D :D

Shouldn't be a problem seeing as we can rarely get 7 to connect and be able to race without being stuck in the pits or dashboarded lol

FederalHercules
18-08-2015, 12:15
So yes going forward (post patch 3.0), if the problem reoccurs we really would like to collect as much info as possible about the consoles which are unable to communicate with each other which will maximise our changes for making a fix. I do hear people saying that's QA's job to sort out prior to release and to a point I agree; the only thing being that QA can't possibly recreate all the different/unique real world configs that are used out there, such as ISP's, routers, headsets, XB1 privacy configs and so on which may all be a factor.

Excellent, can't wait to get 3.0 now.

Dazza
28-08-2015, 03:19
Sooo. Has anyone been able to test this yet? Do we have a fix?

Bavarian Turbo
29-08-2015, 19:57
Sooo. Has anyone been able to test this yet? Do we have a fix?

yes we test it, and no, we have no fix:grumpy:

Mike Laskey
10-09-2015, 16:34
A brief update here.

We've now reproduced this issue internally and it is being investigated (I'm into day 2 of debugging it, it's non-trivial).

More updates when I have something.

HEF51
10-09-2015, 17:07
A brief update here.

We've now reproduced this issue internally and it is being investigated (I'm into day 2 of debugging it, it's non-trivial).

More updates when I have something.
Thanks for the update, it'll be great to not have to use Skype anymore for league races.

KkDrummer
10-09-2015, 19:02
A brief update here.

We've now reproduced this issue internally and it is being investigated (I'm into day 2 of debugging it, it's non-trivial).

More updates when I have something.

awesome news, thanks!

oneBIGkicker
10-09-2015, 19:40
A brief update here.

We've now reproduced this issue internally and it is being investigated (I'm into day 2 of debugging it, it's non-trivial).

More updates when I have something.

Happy Happy Joy Joy!

DECATUR PLAYA
11-09-2015, 02:37
A brief update here.

We've now reproduced this issue internally and it is being investigated (I'm into day 2 of debugging it, it's non-trivial).

More updates when I have something.

Great news.

Dazza
11-09-2015, 23:12
A brief update here.

We've now reproduced this issue internally and it is being investigated (I'm into day 2 of debugging it, it's non-trivial).

More updates when I have something.

after playing f1 2015 and forza 6 and both having the same type of chat issue, i believe its actually a Microsoft issue.

Pressure Drop
12-09-2015, 10:47
I play GTA5 a lot, and there has been a problem there ever since I bought my Xbox One. Basically, it is completely random who you will be able to hear on the microphone.

We play lobbies with over 20 people, and random people will become muted for some but not for others. Sometimes you can fix it if everyone unplugs their mic, then plug it back in. But it doesn't always work.

RTA nOsKiLlS
12-09-2015, 12:56
I use turtle beaches, and while most of the time I'm in a party talking with friends, the other day, I wanted to say something to someone in a qualifying session. I went back to the pits, switched to game chat, I could hear people talking but quietly.

I tried to use the volume control on the chat adapter but it was like it was turned off. My controller didn't seem to know I had a mic plugged in. This stopped it working in the party. I had to turn off the Xbox to get it working again. It may be an issue with the chat adapter, I haven't tried the mic that came with the Xbox.

I can't say I've noticed it on GTA5 though. Everytime I join a lobby on GTA5, there are numerous kids and kinect users that need to be muted, if someone isn't talking, I just assume they either don't want to talk, or they have no mic plugged in, or are in party. I don't speak much playing GTA5, I do like killing squeaky people though. ;)

oscarolim
13-09-2015, 23:24
after playing f1 2015 and forza 6 and both having the same type of chat issue, i believe its actually a Microsoft issue.

Doubtful been playing FM6 with 18-24 people, and can hear everyone, so it is possible to work.

rtazz17
13-09-2015, 23:38
after playing f1 2015 and forza 6 and both having the same type of chat issue, i believe its actually a Microsoft issue.

This isnt true.Im playing forza 6 x 3 days now connected to 24 people in lobby with clear as day chat back and forth...

PTG Baby Cow
14-09-2015, 19:05
I'd attribute that a bit to the fact that t10 are well versed in xbox and develop the game for xbox. SMS has a huge chore of taking on 3 different platforms and trying to produce the same game. Still quite unacceptable if u ask me as a racing game that encourages multiplayer racing not being able to communicate should have been one of the first fixes in the game....

donpost
21-09-2015, 10:20
A brief update here.

We've now reproduced this issue internally and it is being investigated (I'm into day 2 of debugging it, it's non-trivial).

More updates when I have something.

Hi Mike, sorry to nag but did anything make it into patch 4.0 regarding this?

FederalHercules
21-09-2015, 11:29
This isnt true.Im playing forza 6 x 3 days now connected to 24 people in lobby with clear as day chat back and forth...

It is dangerous to assume that because it works for you, it works for everyone. My first lobby in Forza 6 was plagued with the issue where not everyone could hear everyone. Same issue experienced in Forza 5. (Forza 6 seems much improved though, given that I was in a lobby with 18 plus)

Saying its an XBOX Live issue though may not be correct either. More likely its an XBOX SDK issue with the layers that give games the ability to do chat communication.

Not sure if it was Mike, but an SMS dev a while back described the XBOX multiplayer network module as "network mesh" where the game tries to "route" comms and game a packets through other peoples consoles in order to find the best network path.

I believe this is the crux of the problem. We have a pretty good league and when its 3-6 six of us online, we rarely see issues with game chat. Everyone can hear and speak to everyone. But when that number starts creeping up, weird behaviors emerge. Suddenly a person I was just talking with can no longer hear me, or I can not longer hear them. What is hilarious is that the mic notifications still work, so I can see that they are talking, just can't hear them.

Anyway, point I am trying to make is that this issue seems to be prevalent in any XBOX game that uses this "network mesh" model for comms with a large group of people (roughly 8 or more).

Earlier in this thread, the delicious Mr. Queso suggested a media blitz. He is right on the money. The problem is we are so divided has a community, I am not sure we could get 150-200 folks to unite under a single voice. After all, it works for rtazz17. :(

Raven403
21-09-2015, 11:36
This isnt true.Im playing forza 6 x 3 days now connected to 24 people in lobby with clear as day chat back and forth...

How do you know you were talking to all 23 other players?

Bavarian Turbo
21-09-2015, 12:12
we played Forza 6 to eight and the in-game chat was not working. It might work better than with Project CARS, but he does certainly not 100%

Raven403
21-09-2015, 12:15
we played Forza 6 to eight and the in-game chat was not working. It might work better than with Project CARS, but he does certainly not 100%

I dont think ANY games Game Chat on X1 works 100% I remember on FM5 i could NEVER hear 2 guys in the league, ever, even if we were in a party I couldnt hear them, so thats an Xbox problem, dunno how or what it is but, At this point game chat not working doesnt matter, cuz my league will more than likely use Skype anyway, just bc Of what I just said, some guys still wouldnt be able to hear each other

OverHaased
21-09-2015, 14:58
F6 In game chat worked as good as any COD game I have played which is to say 1 billion times better the PCars has ever worked period.


Being able to mute the folks with an open mic.(Or annoying voice) is a godsend in F6. I bet hard dollars that if PCars in game chat worked we would scream bloody murder until that could be instituted here.

rtazz17
21-09-2015, 19:50
How do you know you were talking to all 23 other players?

I have no idea but anyone I spoke to heard me and I heard them..I will just say it works much much better then project cars.Project cars chat is non existant

Mike Laskey
22-09-2015, 10:31
Update: I've spent the last 2-3 days debugging and reworking the way we add players into the VOIP layer. Now ready to push those changes out to the internal/ext QA teams and I'll provide another update when we have run our combined testing.

Raven403
22-09-2015, 10:59
Update: I've spent the last 2-3 days debugging and reworking the way we add players into the VOIP layer. Now ready to push those changes out to the internal/ext QA teams and I'll provide another update when we have run our combined testing.

Nice. Thanks for the update Mike

Fractured Life
22-09-2015, 14:40
Nice MIKE. Please let this fix it.

DECATUR PLAYA
23-09-2015, 07:19
Nice MIKE. Please let this fix it.

Thanks Mike. This is huge.

Mike Laskey
23-09-2015, 16:25
I've submitted my changes now so we'll be running voip tests next week when the external teams will have the builds to see if the problem is resolved...

KkDrummer
23-09-2015, 18:53
I've submitted my changes now so we'll be running voip tests next week when the external teams will have the builds to see if the problem is resolved...

Thanks Mike! =]

Schnizz58
23-09-2015, 21:08
I've submitted my changes now so we'll be running voip tests next week when the external teams will have the builds to see if the problem is resolved...
Thank you for taking the time to come here and keep us updated.

wOoDsTeR16
24-09-2015, 03:52
I've submitted my changes now so we'll be running voip tests next week when the external teams will have the builds to see if the problem is resolved...

This is a big step in the right direction, lets hope it works :)

Raven403
24-09-2015, 12:13
I've submitted my changes now so we'll be running voip tests next week when the external teams will have the builds to see if the problem is resolved...

Thanks for keeping us Updated Mike we really appreciate it

Mike Laskey
09-10-2015, 11:46
The previous changes didn't do the trick, unfortunately, and we continued to repro the issue. However, we've spent another few days going over this code and have refactored several areas including discovering and fixing a significant bug that may have resulted in voip packets being dropped. Things are looking positive right now, for these updates which will be delivered in title update 6.0. Sorry this is taking so long.

Raven403
09-10-2015, 11:57
The previous changes didn't do the trick, unfortunately, and we continued to repro the issue. However, we've spent another few days going over this code and have refactored several areas including discovering and fixing a significant bug that may have resulted in voip packets being dropped. Things are looking positive right now, for these updates which will be delivered in title update 6.0. Sorry this is taking so long.

Thanks alot for the continued hard work and Updates Mike, we really appreciate it! Look forward to testing it out in 6.0!

KkDrummer
09-10-2015, 12:11
The previous changes didn't do the trick, unfortunately, and we continued to repro the issue. However, we've spent another few days going over this code and have refactored several areas including discovering and fixing a significant bug that may have resulted in voip packets being dropped. Things are looking positive right now, for these updates which will be delivered in title update 6.0. Sorry this is taking so long.

As long as you guys are looking into fixing it, it is all good! Thanks for the updates Mike.

Fractured Life
09-10-2015, 13:42
Nice one Mike, take your time, get it right!

Mascot
09-10-2015, 14:31
Good news - PS4 voice chat in pCARS is abysmal.

One other thing: switching to party chat in pCARS increases the quality, but the volume is greatly reduced. Better balancing would be nice.

Dynomight Motorsports
12-10-2015, 03:02
Good news - PS4 voice chat in pCARS is abysmal.

One other thing: switching to party chat in pCARS increases the quality, but the volume is greatly reduced. Better balancing would be nice.

I don't know how that could be a good thing. I would like the chat to work for everybody. The real good news is I was able to fit 12 people in Party Chat last Wednesday. But 2 others had to be in their own party to race. It really sucked for those guys. We appreciate all the hard work Mike. I hope we can get this fixed soon or perhaps push MS to evolve their 12 person party chat to 16.

BulletEyeDK
12-10-2015, 08:46
Really appreciate your effort to solve the chat problems, im for sure looking forward to working in-game chat ;)

Keep up the good work ;)

d4ninho
12-10-2015, 09:10
By the time they fix this will anyone still be playing it,lol

patch 5.0 is yet more graphic changes and no fixes, that's 4 patches now which have been graphic updates and changes and no game fixes.
surely when they prioritize they pick game fixes so who is putting out so many graphic updates when first they need the game to work with a full lobby.

odemode
20-10-2015, 05:23
I host a very successful league which takes a lot of time and energy to keep alive and kicking. Currently I have 12 people, I do have more interested but I can't add them to our roster until game chat is fixed. Thankfully Microsoft upped their party limit just before the league started which gave us another 4 places. I would jizz if game chat fucntioned flawlessly as we could have the full grid we crave for.

Great game, keep it going

madmax2069
20-10-2015, 09:31
Good news - PS4 voice chat in pCARS is abysmal.

One other thing: switching to party chat in pCARS increases the quality, but the volume is greatly reduced. Better balancing would be nice.

Question

Are you going into the party chat and switching the channel back to the game ? Or are you leaving the channel in party chat.

If you're leaving the channel in party chat mode, the quality bump is due to party chat itself (it has a higher quality then game chat), i think sony limits the voice quality for the games voice chat, but SONY uses better quality for party chat, its always the way it has been.

Now for your voices being lower in party chat theres a few sliders you can adjust.

In the party screen go into party settings and go to audio mix, there you can adjust a slider to party audio if people is hard to hear, and if peoples voice is too loud and cant hear the game audio you adjust it towards non-party audio.

Another slider you can mess with under the same party settings menu is the Microphone level. Tell people that you can hardly hear to turn the Mic level up a bit (but not too much or it will over modulate and distort). This is usually the problem as people use the default setting for their Mic and its just not enough for some Mics and it will be really low.

Any issues with party chat on PS4 is a SONY issue, not SMS, and the voice quality in games could be a limitation that SONY set forth to keep any game from using too much bandwidth, and SMS might not be able to improve the in game voice chat quality.

donpost
22-10-2015, 13:00
The just-released 5.0 patch claims to include chat stability improvements.

Schnizz58
22-10-2015, 15:01
The just-released 5.0 patch claims to include chat stability improvements.
I'm guessing that refers to the first part of Mike's post above. They improved some things but that didn't completely fix the problem. There seems to be hope that a true solution will appear in 6.0.

odemode
23-10-2015, 05:23
Any update Mike? This for me would be a major turning point as I could introduce more to my league

Mike Laskey
23-10-2015, 08:58
Everything worked fine with internal testing, with around 8 kits, whereas previously we repro'd the problem. External QA teams don't have patch 6 yet.

Dynomight Motorsports
23-10-2015, 23:54
Party chat is up to twelve. I can't wait for us to be able to talk to all 16 drivers in the same lobby, and also Weather and time progression fixed in the next patch 6.0

Plato99
24-10-2015, 10:26
Yep, let's fix party chat so we can all discuss just how shitty and choppy the multiplayer is at the moment. It's so bad at weekends that it's unplayable. Every corner on Brands GP this morning was like driving around a 50p piece.
Game freezing 2/3 down the straight and then waking up when the car is in the gravel at Paddock Hill. And no it's not my internet connection. At one point there were four of us in that same gravel trap, all presumably being dumped there by this games current inability to deliver a smooth online experience.
Looks like it's back to career.

DECATUR PLAYA
04-11-2015, 14:50
Everything worked fine with internal testing, with around 8 kits, whereas previously we repro'd the problem. External QA teams don't have patch 6 yet.

How are things looking Mike. Will it be ready for 6.0. Just got the XBOX update for the new interface and I wondered how game chat was coming along.

Mike Laskey
06-11-2015, 17:31
Internal testing went well. External testing however we encountered some problems related to network connectivity, explained below.

To illustrate, using a 3 peer network, we have host (A), client 1 (B) and client 2 (C).

What happens in our peer to peer network is, B joins A's game and communicates successfully. Then C joins A's game and finds due to real world network conditions (NAT etc), he can communicate directly with B but not A. Our game detects this and allows C to stay in the game, with B elected as a relay for standard game traffic between A and C. In this situation, A, B and C can play together (caveat: if B leaves, C would become disconnected, unless another suitable peer has joined meanwhile).

So as far as that goes, everything is working normally, and hopefully makes sense.

Then there is chat game traffic. For our chat data, we don't relay it, at all, mostly because of bandwidth reasons (eg if multiple peers need to relay via client B, client B would sink). It is purely peer to peer. If there's no direct connection due to NAT, routers, etc, then the game chat between those peers will not work.

So where we are right now for patch 6 is that it will contain all the fixes to date. Potentially it may address certain people's game chat troubles, but it will not resolve them all.

Extending the relaying logic to include game chat management for pCARS 1 is too risky, so this part won't change. For pCARS 2, we intend to look at that again, to see if we can relay a certain quantity of game chat without impacting gameplay.

ermo
06-11-2015, 18:13
Internal testing went well. External testing however we encountered some problems related to network connectivity, explained below.

To illustrate, using a 3 peer network, we have host (A), client 1 (B) and client 2 (C).

What happens in our peer to peer network is, B joins A's game and communicates successfully. Then C joins A's game and finds due to real world network conditions (NAT etc), he can communicate directly with B but not A. Our game detects this and allows C to stay in the game, with B elected as a relay for standard game traffic between A and C. In this situation, A, B and C can play together (caveat: if B leaves, C would become disconnected, unless another suitable peer has joined meanwhile).

So as far as that goes, everything is working normally, and hopefully makes sense.

Then there is chat game traffic. For our chat data, we don't relay it, at all, mostly because of bandwidth reasons (eg if multiple peers need to relay via client B, client B would sink). It is purely peer to peer. If there's no direct connection due to NAT, routers, etc, then the game chat between those peers will not work.

So where we are right now for patch 6 is that it will contain all the fixes to date. Potentially it may address certain people's game chat troubles, but it will not resolve them all.

Extending the relaying logic to include game chat management for pCARS 1 is too risky, so this part won't change. For pCARS 2, we intend to look at that again, to see if we can relay a certain quantity of game chat without impacting gameplay.

This might not be the proper forum to ask this question, but does the production version of pCARS contain code which will capture the effective network topology of all players in a session in a format suitable for inspection post facto, such that you can collect data on which configurations (latency, bandwidth, peering, relays) work well and which configurations will often result in a "flaky" experience?

Would such "network datalogging" even be useful to you?

If provided with instructions on how to set up network monitoring, I'm fairly sure some of the TGC people wouldn't be averse to routinely setting up WireShark in order to capture network packet logs for you to analyse?

FWIW, I'm duly impressed by the diligence with which you gentlemen appear to keep chipping away at improving the pCARS code base. :)

DECATUR PLAYA
07-11-2015, 04:19
Appreciate the response Mike. I to am impressed with the work you guys are putting in on this. Give us what you got and let us see if we can work it out on our end.

Thanks for the hard work guys.

Ryzza5
07-11-2015, 23:09
Cheers for the explanation Mike. Is it not possible to prompt the player to setup port-forwarding in the game UI?

BulletEyeDK
08-11-2015, 00:33
If the game can log network problems such as moderate or strict NAT, you could eventually make MP host option to only allow open NAT users to connect to a given lobby?

Another option could be a certain ping range...

Prompt users with bad NAT and explain how to fix

ermo
08-11-2015, 10:55
If the game can log network problems such as moderate or strict NAT, you could eventually make MP host option to only allow open NAT users to connect to a given lobby?

Another option could be a certain ping range...

Prompt users with bad NAT and explain how to fix

It might make sense to try to open ports via either UPnP or NAT-PMP first and, failing that, giving people specific instructions on which port(s) to open, yes.

But odds are that the experienced devs on the network team have already considered this and more? If the solution was simple, it would probably have been implemented already? :)

Pbucko
08-11-2015, 13:37
Heres a quick fix. Cant sms lobby Microsoft and ask them to add another 4 people to party chat. Problem solved simple. These are the types of problems that occur when game makers skimp and use p2p connections. Most of the online problems in this game are caused by using p2p. Why in this age of gaming are we still using P2P when everyone knows that dedicated servers are better, not everyone who plays online has a good internet connection and that's a fact, so when using p2p when these bad connections join multiplayer games then that's it game screwed, result people stop playing online, result game community disappears to other games. If sms used dedicated servers on release of game and multiplayer was in a decent state I reckon that at least 50percent wouldn't have bought forza, the majority of people I race with were finished with forza but because of the state of p cars multiplayer bought it. So just for future reference if P Cars 2 does not run on dedicated servers on console I wont be purchasing it.
Is there any way we can lobby Microsoft to push party chat up to 16 people.

BulletEyeDK
08-11-2015, 19:37
@ermo - That makes sense, I agree on that :)

But as Mike Laskey stated: Then there is chat game traffic. For our chat data, we don't relay it, at all, mostly because of bandwidth reasons (eg if multiple peers need to relay via client B, client B would sink). It is purely peer to peer. If there's no direct connection due to NAT, routers, etc, then the game chat between those peers will not work.

I posted my comment in relation to what Mike posted regarding problems due to NAT, routers, etc.

Umer Ahmad
08-11-2015, 21:22
Heres a quick fix. Cant sms lobby Microsoft and ask them to add another 4 people to party chat. Problem solved simple. These are the types of problems that occur when game makers skimp and use p2p connections. Most of the online problems in this game are caused by using p2p. Why in this age of gaming are we still using P2P when everyone knows that dedicated servers are better, not everyone who plays online has a good internet connection and that's a fact, so when using p2p when these bad connections join multiplayer games then that's it game screwed, result people stop playing online, result game community disappears to other games. If sms used dedicated servers on release of game and multiplayer was in a decent state I reckon that at least 50percent wouldn't have bought forza, the majority of people I race with were finished with forza but because of the state of p cars multiplayer bought it. So just for future reference if P Cars 2 does not run on dedicated servers on console I wont be purchasing it.
Is there any way we can lobby Microsoft to push party chat up to 16 people.

It's a money problem i think. Dedi-servers need dedi-$€

SMS i happy to employ dedi-servers, they do for the PC-version already. so the software supports it. It must be a "business issue" then.

Is it just the big buget games (e.g., Halo, Forza etc) that support dedicated servers? Or do some smaller/indie titles as well?

Scav3nger
10-11-2015, 00:25
It's a money problem i think. Dedi-servers need dedi-$

I would assume there's also some agreement (on the console developer side more likely) that means we're not allowed to self-run dedicated servers either (direct IP connection and what-not).

Edit: when I say "we" I mean community self-run, not SMS self-run.

Pbucko
10-11-2015, 12:14
When Xbox one first came out one of the selling points was that any game developer could access the azure dedicated servers. The same ones forza uses, but none of the multi platform games seem to use them. Whether it's development costs or the cost of the actual servers themselfs, why they don't use them. All I know at the end of the day it's the people who purchase the games at 50 a pop who lose out in the long run.

Raven403
10-11-2015, 12:38
Thanks for the continued work Mike and updates.

I dont know of indie titles that use the Azure servers, but I can tell you this. P2P mp is not going to work in the future, and if thats how your going to do it, please for the love of god, find a way to ghost a car that de-syncs, so many times I've seen a car with a bad connection ruin the race for MULTIPLE people, lag spiking and bowling balling through a field of cars tossing them like toys wrecking them in the process. Personally, I would rather SMS do what they can to use the Dedicated servers or talk to Bandai about settting up their own, because it will be a HUGE con for me if the multiplayer is in this state in Pcars2. To no fault of Mike or anyone working on the current system, I think it was a big oversight to let the MP go out with the current system in place, but now that we've learned that lesson could we please not repeat it.

K Johansson
10-11-2015, 15:58
When Xbox one first came out one of the selling points was that any game developer could access the azure dedicated servers. The same ones forza uses, but none of the multi platform games seem to use them.

You're right! I almost forgot about this.. Could it be that Microsoft only gives this opportunity to Xbox Exclusive-games? If that is the case, it would not suprise me..

Bavarian Turbo
21-11-2015, 09:17
with 6.0 the inGame chat does still not workl.
But even in Forza 6 inGame Chat does not work, so i think its not SMS fault.

I do not know what Microsoft has problems, but it just annoys

NavyFlipper HUN
21-11-2015, 09:18
even in Forza 6 inGame Chat does not work :rolleyes:

rtazz17
21-11-2015, 18:39
In game chat works for me in forza 6...Clear as a bell most days.Every now and then its garbled but 95 percent of time it works... Project cars chat has worked for me never...

PTG Baby Cow
22-11-2015, 01:09
It Def does not work in forza either. In a league I recently did only certain people could hear others and vice versa. Either we had to restrict lobby to 12 people so we could be in party or had to repeat things via different people so everyone could hear.