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mister dog
17-08-2015, 21:48
Had my first go with patch 3.0 today, and i tried out the new rain effects, but i'm afraid the graphics whore inside of me was a bit annoyed:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbV-Xj8eZGM

As soon as you start accelerating, it looks like the raindrops turn into little worms crawling fast up your windscreen. Especially when driving with a close up FOV it becomes distracting and looks a bit awkward (never experienced this IRL whilst driving fast in the rain).

Apart from that the new marks of the top of the wiper blades, and the raindrops on the side windows are a big improvement. Just that those worms doing a race of themselves hamper the experience. If they can be adjusted (read toned down) in a future patch, that would make it perfect.

MrFlibble81
17-08-2015, 21:52
I've experienced the "worms" on the windshield when it's raining real hard. If you're going quick enough you'll get it especially if you have something like RainX on your windshield.

To me it looks pretty realistic.

TrevorAustin
17-08-2015, 21:57
I've experienced the "worms" on the windshield when it's raining real hard. If you're going quick enough you'll get it especially if you have something like RainX on your windshield.

To me it looks pretty realistic.

Agreed, as I said in one of the several other threads saying exactly the same thing. It isn't perfect, but it's a massive improvement, and I actually think the water lines up the glass very realistic.

mister dog
17-08-2015, 22:02
I've experienced the "worms" on the windshield when it's raining real hard. If you're going quick enough you'll get it especially if you have something like RainX on your windshield.

To me it looks pretty realistic.
I searched a bit for a clear onboard vid, so we can compare. You'll notice the worms do appear but not in the area where the wipers swipe. They appear above where the wipers don't reach, so i guess it's a matter of removing the worms from the 'wiped area' and thus also from your line of vision, which makes it so noticeable in PCARS (and a bit annoying once you start noticing them).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwz9df_YRs

jason
17-08-2015, 22:08
Agreed, as I said in one of the several other threads saying exactly the same thing. It isn't perfect, but it's a massive improvement, and I actually think the water lines up the glass very realistic.

I think it looks nice too but it seems to bother some people who change the FOV as above that's it is distracting . At the end of the day its a hole lot better then what was in place so I'm happy. What's the next graphical upgrade a chequered flag.

215405

Racer Pro
17-08-2015, 22:27
the 3.0 look way better

TMoney
17-08-2015, 22:37
3.0 definitely looks better to me 100%. That's not to say it couldn't use a small tweak or two maybe making the trails a little less zig-zaggy and/or less visible. At high speeds I think the trails should be straighter. On the right track though and I like what SMS are doing.

leithnow
17-08-2015, 22:47
Duuude, I been ramping up the graphics settings on my pc to see what I can get away with. The graphics are beautiful. Didn't have this on pc before 3.0 so can't compare before and after. But, man...they did wonderful job with the graphics. Glad it runs so well on my pc.

Invincible
17-08-2015, 22:50
To me 3.0 looks better too. And if those clios in the video had the same wiper speed we have in game, you would see some "worms" in the wiper area too. And also, I've experienced them in RL too.
As I think about it, they appear neraly every time it rains... coincidence? :p

TrevorAustin
17-08-2015, 22:59
I searched a bit for a clear onboard vid, so we can compare. You'll notice the worms do appear but not in the area where the wipers swipe. They appear above where the wipers don't reach, so i guess it's a matter of removing the worms from the 'wiped area' and thus also from your line of vision, which makes it so noticeable in PCARS (and a bit annoying once you start noticing them).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwz9df_YRs

This seems reminiscent, are you sure it shouldn't be too dark to see at that time:)

Mahjik
17-08-2015, 23:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8YqfgXtS_c

Invincible
17-08-2015, 23:32
Eeww... worms...

lacslyer
18-08-2015, 02:57
I do like the new rain on the windows, however I can see the issue being brought up here. The reason I think it's distracting is because of how the "worms" are implemented, and how different they appear from real life situations. Primarily in how they are obviously limited in size in the game, which creates dozens of little worms on the windscreen rather than mostly solid rain lines that would typically appear when accelerating. Mahjik's video is a great example of that, where acceleration pushes the water up, creating rain lines on the windscreen that almost all eventually connect into other rain lines giving you more of a river like effect rather than the worm effect we have in game.

Even worse is how synchronized they look going across the screen mostly due to limitations in the software I'm sure. Where they pass over the same locations constantly rather than more randomly, which is more easily observed at a stand still. Which, is another note I'd point out, that they exist at all while at stand still, and aren't effected by lateral movements of the car as normal rain would be. This isn't a gripe about it, just an observation that likely is part of the issue with them appearing so synchronized.

One way to fix this, if possible, would be to extend the length of the rain "worms" so they meld into each more rather than create the multiple worm-like effect.

Invincible
18-08-2015, 06:34
Well, we all must not forget that, in the end of the day, every visual improvement on the rain animation has to come out without any noticeable hit on cpu or gpu perfomance.
With that in mind, I think SMS did a pretty awesome job. I am sure they could make it looking better and have these rain lines connect to each other, while looking totally random and so on. But you would pay for it. With a very limited currency: FPS.
And to me, this game is still a racing simulator, not a rain droplet simulator.

mister dog
18-08-2015, 07:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8YqfgXtS_c

Again, you don't really see them in the area where the wipers do their job, whilst in PCARS they are right there.
Thanks for proving my point :)

BellCurve
18-08-2015, 07:47
Good driving and good comparisons. To me though, you highlighted the improvements, not the deficiencies.

Looks better to me in 3.0.

Iamlegion
18-08-2015, 07:59
I agree that the worms in the wiper area appear a bit too quickly after the wiper passes. Other than that, it looks much better.

mister dog
18-08-2015, 08:10
Good driving and good comparisons. To me though, you highlighted the improvements, not the deficiencies.

Looks better to me in 3.0.
We all agree that the rain effects look better in general after 3.0, i'm not questioning that. Just that the worms crawling up in wiper part are overdone and hamper the experience if you drive with a realistic FOV. I'll post a crap mobile phone video of mine later today showing how it looks like from my perspective ;)

QPRLad
18-08-2015, 08:30
Mine were so bad last night.

215440

maxx2504
18-08-2015, 09:13
Hi !

All i can say is this: It looks good now ! Not perfect but much better than before Patch 3.0. I thank SMS that they changed those effects.



PS: I like to play Worms now...haha ;)

rosko
18-08-2015, 09:16
I do like the new rain on the windows, however I can see the issue being brought up here. The reason I think it's distracting is because of how the "worms" are implemented, and how different they appear from real life situations. Primarily in how they are obviously limited in size in the game, which creates dozens of little worms on the windscreen rather than mostly solid rain lines that would typically appear when accelerating. Mahjik's video is a great example of that, where acceleration pushes the water up, creating rain lines on the windscreen that almost all eventually connect into other rain lines giving you more of a river like effect rather than the worm effect we have in game.

Even worse is how synchronized they look going across the screen mostly due to limitations in the software I'm sure. Where they pass over the same locations constantly rather than more randomly, which is more easily observed at a stand still. Which, is another note I'd point out, that they exist at all while at stand still, and aren't effected by lateral movements of the car as normal rain would be. This isn't a gripe about it, just an observation that likely is part of the issue with them appearing so synchronized.

One way to fix this, if possible, would be to extend the length of the rain "worms" so they meld into each more rather than create the multiple worm-like effect.

I agree with this.

If you look at the game driveclub, this to me is how it should look. I agree that its actually a bit distracting because it looks unnatural.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hViwrRGfuHU

the-D-
18-08-2015, 09:32
Totally agree, graphics and weather effects in Driveclub are the industry standard right now, I do recognise the compromise that SMS made in order to achieve 60fps, and I'm glad they did
I agree with this.

If you look at the game driveclub, this to me is how it should look. I agree that its actually a bit distracting because it looks unnatural.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hViwrRGfuHU

Photonmonkey
18-08-2015, 10:15
People are still missing the point, DC is an 'arcade racer' yes it looks pretty but it's not doing as much under the 'hood' as PCARS which is very much more a sim, just think of the tire/tyre model, all that has to be computed and then throw in arty rain effects, think of the CPU hit! SMS have had to try and deliver something that looks more realistic but without a hit on frame rate and I applaud what they have done.

Maybe tweak the so called 'worms'/'maggots' for those running high FOV but other than that it's already a great improvement, don't lose sight of the fact this is a racing simulator 1st, compare DC and PCARS on that level and well you do the math!

Bealdor
18-08-2015, 10:21
^^Agree. The Driveclub comparison is pretty much pointless IMO.

rosko
18-08-2015, 12:52
People are still missing the point, DC is an 'arcade racer' yes it looks pretty but it's not doing as much under the 'hood' as PCARS which is very much more a sim, just think of the tire/tyre model, all that has to be computed and then throw in arty rain effects, think of the CPU hit! SMS have had to try and deliver something that looks more realistic but without a hit on frame rate and I applaud what they have done.

Maybe tweak the so called 'worms'/'maggots' for those running high FOV but other than that it's already a great improvement, don't lose sight of the fact this is a racing simulator 1st, compare DC and PCARS on that level and well you do the math!

Its a fair point, i still agree with the op that it needs toning down a bit.

diesel97
18-08-2015, 13:22
I think the rain looks good but then again the old rain didnt bother me either . Could the rain be better ? Maybe , but i would much rather them put the man hours into something else like "invisible walls", getting the online rep system up and running . There are alot more important stuff to worry about

Mahjik
18-08-2015, 13:24
Again, you don't really see them in the area where the wipers do their job, whilst in PCARS they are right there.
Thanks for proving my point :)

Actually, I do. The main difference is that the wiper in the video is posted is a little faster than the ones in pCARS. This keeps the "worms" from appearing as quickly.

jason
18-08-2015, 13:57
Driveclub doesn't have 40 cars on track nor does any other racing game on current gen accept pcars .

16 cars and great weather ..... Hmmm I know what I want and that's the 40 cars .

Nomad06
18-08-2015, 14:07
I think I understand what they're trying to do... they just tried too hard. ..too many of the worms and too predictable. ...however overall its a significant improvement. Even put in the areas on the windscreen where the blades are either dirty or not making enough contact....the edging around the outter edge of the wiper path is pretty cool too.....though for the ipen wheelers. ..not much has changed

J4M35_R
18-08-2015, 14:26
I started a thread about this in the ps4 section. I'm not a fan of the "worms" at all. With my fov @ 55 they look more like snakes. I've tried to get used to them but I can't, I only race open wheels in the rain until they are tweaked or removed.

I would rather they add a drying race line than this sort of thing.

Here is a vid of the Zakspeed at 55 fov.

https://youtu.be/DlqdrAkJCHg

Lawndarts
18-08-2015, 14:34
Exactly this. RainX is a water repellent so water will clump together as it run off the surface. But, rainX tends to wear off quite quickly when you use your wipers.

Scott1904
18-08-2015, 15:36
i like the new animations

F2kSel
18-08-2015, 16:24
I think if they were toned down a little in the middle of wiped area it would look more realistic.

FLX81
18-08-2015, 18:02
I do like the new rain on the windows, however I can see the issue being brought up here. The reason I think it's distracting is because of how the "worms" are implemented, and how different they appear from real life situations. Primarily in how they are obviously limited in size in the game, which creates dozens of little worms on the windscreen rather than mostly solid rain lines that would typically appear when accelerating. Mahjik's video is a great example of that, where acceleration pushes the water up, creating rain lines on the windscreen that almost all eventually connect into other rain lines giving you more of a river like effect rather than the worm effect we have in game.

Even worse is how synchronized they look going across the screen mostly due to limitations in the software I'm sure. Where they pass over the same locations constantly rather than more randomly, which is more easily observed at a stand still. Which, is another note I'd point out, that they exist at all while at stand still, and aren't effected by lateral movements of the car as normal rain would be. This isn't a gripe about it, just an observation that likely is part of the issue with them appearing so synchronized.

One way to fix this, if possible, would be to extend the length of the rain "worms" so they meld into each more rather than create the multiple worm-like effect.

This is spot on.

MAARTEN
18-08-2015, 18:09
With 3.0 patch rain-effect is greatly enhanced but i noticed the worms as well. I think the raindrops and everything on the windscreen should have slightly more transparency to it and the worms wouldn't be that noticeable.

mister dog
19-08-2015, 14:25
I started a thread about this in the ps4 section. I'm not a fan of the "worms" at all. With my fov @ 55 they look more like snakes. I've tried to get used to them but I can't, I only race open wheels in the rain until they are tweaked or removed.

I would rather they add a drying race line than this sort of thing.

Here is a vid of the Zakspeed at 55 fov.

Thanks for sharing, illustrates what i mean. I can understand people don't really notice it when they play with the regular 80 FOV, but for the ones that want to put it closer to have a more realistic view on the track it's a maggot invasion right in your face:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlqdrAkJCHg&feature=youtu.be

Hopefully the little buggers will be toned down or removed from the wiped area in your line of vision.

Raven403
19-08-2015, 14:28
Idk, all things considered I like the new effects. I mean theres always room to improve but I do like the new effects better than the old ones.


**Im aware my Profile says Xb1 I have it on PC as well**

techenix00
24-08-2015, 13:05
SMS did a great job on this, but still not as good as Driveclub.

i will just list down a few things that other dudes and me wants to be improve:
-the wiper blade trails are too thick (like a jelly) for some cars. Evo X and etc. can't remember the other
-wipers isn't actually pushing the raindrops to the left/right, they're just dissapearing so magically
-exterior raindrops are perfectly still no matter how fast your cars are running
-rain droplets pattern is just the same, it could have done atleast like 5 different patterns so you don't notice
-a massive pCARS tire water splash from your opponents isn't affecting your windshield
-almos half of the left wiper blade of Evo X isn't actually wiping off the raindrops. the other one has a small delay
this is what i mean:
216031

thats just what i found, what do you think ? does it really matter ? or the Particles is the one that needs to be fixed ? (it kills more than 20fps for me)

Raven403
24-08-2015, 13:06
I think they look great, and much better than they were. I don't need SMS to make it look like driveclub. Usually I'm looking past them at the track anyway. I'm ok with them as they are in 3.0

Mahjik
24-08-2015, 13:18
do you think the new rain effects needs more work ?

SMS did a great job on this, but still not as good as Driveclub.

Personally, for me no. I'd rather see the time spent in other areas of pCARS1.

Raven403
24-08-2015, 13:19
Personally, for me no. I'd rather see the time spent in other areas of pCARS1.

10000% agree

FLX81
24-08-2015, 13:37
Personally, for me no. I'd rather see the time spent in other areas of pCARS1.

And what would that be, in regards to the guys working on weather? We have seen a preview of better night lighting a while ago, once that is done I cant think of many other improvements that the weather system needs. The rest of it is more than good enough.

Mahjik
24-08-2015, 14:55
And what would that be, in regards to the guys working on weather? We have seen a preview of better night lighting a while ago, once that is done I cant think of many other improvements that the weather system needs. The rest of it is more than good enough.

Yes, the night lighting is where I would like to see more focus rather than the rain/windshield effects (as far as graphic artists). If it requires work from the render team, then I would prefer to see their time spend on triple screen support as well as more optimizations.

Photonmonkey
24-08-2015, 18:01
I am so fed up with the DC comparisons, at least compare 2 games in the same ball park! DC is at best an arcade racer that runs at 30fps, it has power to spare for 'icing' like amazing rain effects. The tire/tyre model in PCARS eats most of any CPU power before you even start with anything else and I am glad because, guess what folks its a racing/driving sim. Yes the rain effects could probably be tweaked but at the end of the day they are very much secondary to the driving/physics aspect of the game IMHO.

As I mentioned previously in this thread

mister dog
24-08-2015, 19:21
I suspect just getting rid of 'the worms' in the wiped part isn't a huge/time consuming job. Just a matter of tweaking the existing code a bit?

People act like these requests are not worthy of having time spend on, but they make a big difference to many of us (especially the ones who use a close FOV), and like mentioned above they aren't going to cause big delays to any other projects. If i would have asked for a complete overhaul yes, but I think i'm just asking for a minor tweak here.

z3r0cool77
24-08-2015, 19:26
I have to agree w OP. I like the new effect's for the most part. The wiper streaks are really nice... but those worms man. Water drops don't grow tails that are as thick as the head of the drop and crawl across the windscreen. Leave the movement, love it. Maybe even a little streak behind moving drops... but not those worms. Much ugly. Even reducing the amount of wiggle would be a huge improvement. Less wiggle, less opaque = thumbs up.

aerchak
24-08-2015, 22:15
"Hey, SMS. We like that thing you did that is better than the old thing, but we're still going to complain and say it isn't good enough."

Guys. Come on.

FLX81
24-08-2015, 23:13
"Hey, SMS. We like that thing you did that is better than the old thing, but we're still going to complain and say it isn't good enough."

Yes and thats perfectly valid. That is how improvement actually works, giving the people in charge constructive criticism.

diesel97
25-08-2015, 00:25
most people have no problem with the rain. I race with 60 fov and all i am looking for is braking markers and brake lights. Even at the stating grid waiting for the tree to go green i dont notice it. I guess i dont over obsesse every little thing

Time for SMS move on to bigger issues, down the road they can come back tweak it if they want

for ever 1 thing they fix or tweak 10 more can break

aerchak
25-08-2015, 00:55
Yes and thats perfectly valid. That is how improvement actually works, giving the people in charge constructive criticism.

It's a LOT better than it was. There's a difference between constructive criticism and biting the hand that feeds you.

Vit7
25-08-2015, 03:27
It's a LOT better than it was. There's a difference between constructive criticism and biting the hand that feeds you.

Yes its a lot better than it was. We just ask them to remove "worms" to make it PERFECT.

techenix00
25-08-2015, 05:31
Yes its a lot better than it was. We just ask them to remove "worms" to make it PERFECT.

not remove the "worms", just reduce it or make it a bit thinner. or correct their movements defending to the car's speed.

but what we have now is enought for me. it still better than before.

Pyromaniak666
25-08-2015, 05:56
I searched a bit for a clear onboard vid, so we can compare. You'll notice the worms do appear but not in the area where the wipers swipe. They appear above where the wipers don't reach, so i guess it's a matter of removing the worms from the 'wiped area' and thus also from your line of vision, which makes it so noticeable in PCARS (and a bit annoying once you start noticing them).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwz9df_YRs


Maybe an increase in the wipe speed is all that is required, not sure can't really comment but rain effects in patch 3.0 is really amazing

mister dog
25-08-2015, 06:36
It's a LOT better than it was. There's a difference between constructive criticism and biting the hand that feeds you.
Biting the hand that feeds me...http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes008.gif
Am i employed by SMS??

And even still, at the job that does pay my salary i don't hesitate to talk to the management and raise points that can be improved easily, so there's that too. Employees that just sit there with a silly smile on their face aren't the ones that will move a business/ product forwards IMO.

Bealdor
25-08-2015, 06:50
Relax guys. Politely asking for further improvements is perfectly valid. I see no issue with the OP.

Paulo Ribeiro
25-08-2015, 09:14
Maybe an increase in the wipe speed is all that is required, not sure can't really comment but rain effects in patch 3.0 is really amazing

Agree.

ElfjeTwaalfje
25-08-2015, 10:03
Would it be save to say that we do not want a "rain and wind shield wiper"-sim, only less of the "worms" in the field of view without loss of overall game fidelity?

mister dog
25-08-2015, 12:32
Would it be save to say that we do not want a "rain and wind shield wiper"-sim, only less of the "worms" in the field of view without loss of overall game fidelity?
Exactly, either by:

-Removing them completely from the area where the wipers reach (in your line of vision)
-Increasing wiper speed which should have the same effect as above (worms removed)
-Making them a lot more subtle and less visible to the eye.

I myself would go for the first 2 solutions, i haven't seen big fat raindrops crawling synchronously up my windscreen IRL apart from the area where the wipers cannot reach (upper and side corners of the windscreen). And those are not noticeable when looking at the road.

Flaw3dGenius
25-08-2015, 12:52
I searched a bit for a clear onboard vid, so we can compare. You'll notice the worms do appear but not in the area where the wipers swipe. They appear above where the wipers don't reach, so i guess it's a matter of removing the worms from the 'wiped area' and thus also from your line of vision, which makes it so noticeable in PCARS (and a bit annoying once you start noticing them).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLwz9df_YRs
The problem with that video is the wipers go at a decent speed in PCars the wipers are really slow so maybe with slower wipers you would see the worms? Also that looks like heavy drizzle which Pcars does not have.



In this vid you can see worms starting but due to faster wipers they are not the same as PCars


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRAek-BIGmE

Really we need faster wipers in game to reduce the worms.

Yorkie065
25-08-2015, 13:34
The problem with that video is the wipers go at a decent speed in PCars the wipers are really slow so maybe with slower wipers you would see the worms? Also that looks like heavy drizzle which Pcars does not have.



In this vid you can see worms starting but due to faster wipers they are not the same as PCars


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRAek-BIGmE

Really we need faster wipers in game to reduce the worms.

Yep. This is what I found on the drive back home from work yesterday. Wipers on the intermittent speed on my fiesta when driving down the motorway allowed the water drops to go from a droplet into a "worm" even in the area of the wipers. It's not as quick as in PCars, but the wipers were swipping across the windscreen every second or so and in that time I could see them move between the two.

I think what we need is current effect with less "worms" and bring back a few droplets, another faster wiper speed and then a blur effect similar to that of what they had in the codies F1 games for when you drive into the spray of the car infront where the windscreen goes blurry but clears (slightly not fully) with the wiper swipe, and obviously clears when you come out of the spray. The last one I'm not sure we'll see in PCars 1 though.

MABlosfeld
25-08-2015, 13:56
Yes its a lot better than it was. We just ask them to remove "worms" to make it PERFECT.

I understand that for some people the ''worms'' hinder driving but for others there is no problem.
SMS need to create slider to increase or decrease the amount of worms according to personal preference
but to say that ''take the worms to stay perfect'' is much pretension.

Raven403
25-08-2015, 14:02
I understand that for some people the ''worms'' hinder driving but for others there is no problem.
SMS need to create slider to increase or decrease the amount of worms according to personal preference but to say that '' WORMS TAKE TO BE PERFECT '' is much pretension.

As was said I feel like there are alot of other things they could work on instead. But it's a matter of opinion

MABlosfeld
25-08-2015, 14:11
Agree.

Increasing the speed of cleaning can reduce the amount of "worms" but will increase the number of times that the vane will move to clean.
We'll probably have another issue to resolve.

mister dog
25-08-2015, 14:18
As was said I feel like there are alot of other things they could work on instead. But it's a matter of opinion
Again, deleting a couple of raindrops isn't a time consuming job :kiwi-fruit:

MABlosfeld
25-08-2015, 14:21
Again, deleting a couple of raindrops isn't a time consuming job :kiwi-fruit:

Delete a few drops is the best solution for some and not for everyone
The solution is to create a SLIDING WORMS CONTROL to keep DEMOCRACY

Slicker_VR
25-08-2015, 14:27
the rain effects are now brilliant - let them get on with sorting the things that matter

mister dog
25-08-2015, 19:52
the rain effects are now brilliant - let them get on with sorting the things that matter

If they were brilliant i wouldn't have made this thread, they are very good now but not brilliant. And this does matter to folk like myself.. not to everyone yes, but to a lot of people nonetheless.