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View Full Version : This is the current state of the game.... (wmd, sms, please take a look)



FasterThenYou
19-08-2015, 00:36
Ok, iīve hade the pleasure to record this footage driving on Monza..please take a look and decide by yourself.....and please, dont tell me that the game is fixed, itīs kinda boring as hell, this is a real reality of the game playing MP

...enjoy!

BTW: i dont know how to set up better quality..)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFRbTBEhtL8

TheReaper GT
19-08-2015, 00:41
The game looks fine to me, the problem are the idiots...

FasterThenYou
19-08-2015, 00:43
The game looks fine to me, the problem are the idiots...

so you wanna say that that idiot didnt deserve to be disqualy or removed from the race...etc..?

jason
19-08-2015, 00:49
Its unfortunate but SMS cant stop someone being a tool :( ......... I think it is really tough to come up with something to stop this rubbish when people just don't want to stop , they will find another way to mess things up.

FasterThenYou
19-08-2015, 00:51
Its unfortunate but SMS cant stop someone being a tool :( ......... I think it is really tough to come up with something to stop this rubbish when people just don't want to stop , they will find another way to mess things up.

Agree m8, but I hope footage like this one will trigger something to make this better. Things like this I've seen every time in every lobby, kinda sad!

jason
19-08-2015, 00:52
so you wanna say that that idiot didnt deserve to be disqualy or removed from the race...etc..?

He's not saying that bud , we would all agree the guy should be out of the race ....... Example if you say have 3 cut track penalty system in place and then you are disqualified what is stopping someone when you are on 2 penalties by accident or mistakes , what's stopping them punting you up the bum and pushing you of track for a 3rd cut track penalty ........ They will find a way .....

FasterThenYou
19-08-2015, 00:57
He's not saying that bud , we would all agree the guy should be out of the race ....... Example if you say have 3 cut track penalty system in place and then you are disqualified what is stopping someone when you are on 2 penalties by accident or mistakes , what's stopping them punting you up the bum and pushing you of track for a 3rd cut track penalty ........ They will find a way .....

That's my point. They've to figure something out this way racing is not fun at all. We can here suggest something with the devs, they can implement few things and try it out as y'all can see it's a mess.

jason
19-08-2015, 00:58
It is a mess that is for sure . Very difficult to have a fun race without it being a organised race with people you actually know ..

I really don't have answers for that :(

Grijo
19-08-2015, 02:49
Jason and Reaper are right! A friend of mine always says that "anywhere has ants and idiots". i guess don't have remedy for this...

t0daY
19-08-2015, 03:15
That's my point. They've to figure something out this way racing is not fun at all. We can here suggest something with the devs, they can implement few things and try it out as y'all can see it's a mess.

"They've to figure something out..." when I am hearing this sentence... What are they supposed to do? You can do this in any particular racing game if you want to. If there are people driving like idiots it isnt SMS duty to "figure something out". Join some racing communities. Here a plenty of them looking for fair and clean racing drivers.

Please stop blaming SMS for people who are not driving properly. There cant be a solution for that because if you tighten the penalties and DQ you also punish other people who did not cut on purpose or had to cut the track because of a touching incident with another car.

Take a look here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/forumdisplay.php?135-PS4-Multiplayer-Event-Planning
Lots of active communites trying to avoid the same things you experienced. Trying to organize proper events in a fair racing atmosphere. Give it a try, its worth it trust me!

321Respawn
19-08-2015, 03:20
Put an invisible barrier at the exit points of chicanes etc that can be cut that only activates when a player attempts to cross it .
Have it measure the speed of the player on the approach side and the speed on exit like those timed distance speed traps the cops use .
It can be set up so that it only activates when a player attempts to cross at a certain speed threshold so that players recovering from an off track incident are still able to return to track .

TrevorAustin
19-08-2015, 06:57
This is just another thread about your same problem.

This is not an sms problem or responsibility.

ironik
19-08-2015, 08:09
That's my point. They've to figure something out this way racing is not fun at all. We can here suggest something with the devs, they can implement few things and try it out as y'all can see it's a mess.

What's your proposition then ?
How would you do this ?


Put an invisible barrier at the exit points of chicanes etc that can be cut that only activates when a player attempts to cross it .
Have it measure the speed of the player on the approach side and the speed on exit like those timed distance speed traps the cops use .
It can be set up so that it only activates when a player attempts to cross at a certain speed threshold so that players recovering from an off track incident are still able to return to track .

And what if you have a contact before the chicane and you're pushed into the "invisible wall" ?
What if there is a big crash in the chicane and you decide to cut it in order to avoid the crash ?
What will happen if you cut the chicane by mistake ?

I agree that it will probably work for this track where you can cut the chicane with a very high speed but how will it work in other tracks ?

It's a good idea but this is not that easy IMHO. There is always a let down, at least.

Paulo Ribeiro
19-08-2015, 08:25
Jason and Reaper are right! A friend of mine always says that "anywhere has ants and idiots". i guess don't have remedy for this...

I run away from idiots faster than from ants. :eek:

I understand the OP frustration, however as has been posted previously, SMS can't be blamed for the idiocy of a few... Guys.
Things are better since the 3.0 patch and I believe SMS is trying hard to implement even a better penalty system.

Iamlegion
19-08-2015, 08:33
I don't see the game being 'broken' or needing to be fixed either. Superimposing stricter or weird trackrules only makes it harder on the normal racers. Idiots will be idiots either way.

satco1066
19-08-2015, 08:37
try using the DS an you can kick AND ban idiots.

ironik
19-08-2015, 08:39
try using the DS an you can kick AND ban idiots.

Sadly, it's not possible on consoles ;)

Tony Rickard
19-08-2015, 08:53
Martin Brundle commented on the numbers of drivers racing at le Mans when he raced there "there simply aren't 165 world-class drivers ready to do the job". The pro drivers having to be wary of the drivers who were just there for their moment of fame. I think this holds true for sim racing, there simply aren't enough good drivers with an attitude towards sim racing to work in pick up racing unless you are very lucky. The same issue holds true in every sim with open server online racing.

evanzo7
19-08-2015, 08:54
The game looks fine to me, the problem are the idiots...

To be fair the guy cuts two chicanes massively and come the end of it is battling for the lead.
The penalties should be significant enough that the cheater is held for a much larger period of time.

Also, for extreme and purposeful corner cuts like that there should be a disqualification in place.

ironik
19-08-2015, 09:02
As far as I remember, the penalty system in place already does that : The 5s penalty can increase to 10s and 45s.
You also have a cut counter increasing. I don't know what happen if you reach 3 cut detection though. (Maybe a stop & go or a DQ ?)

Honestly, I don't know how you could improve the penalty system without any let down...

In real life you have race stewards who can take a decision regarding the race facts. How could you simulate that with a programm ?

DragonSyr
19-08-2015, 09:06
cut corners at flatout equal to disqualify and cutting corners on brakes , at least 2 times warning and speedlimiter , 3rd time disqualify
possible solution

FLX81
19-08-2015, 09:09
Martin Brundle commented on the numbers of drivers racing at le Mans when he raced there "there simply aren't 165 world-class drivers ready to do the job". The pro drivers having to be wary of the drivers who were just there for their moment of fame. I think this holds true for sim racing, there simply aren't enough good drivers with an attitude towards sim racing to work in pick up racing unless you are very lucky. The same issue holds true in every sim with open server online racing.

There is a difference between not being very good and being a total idiot on purpose.

I dont really agree with the "SMS cant do anything about it" statements. It will probably be quite hard to achieve, but with a sophisticated DQ/penalty, those ramming trolls could at least have a harder time ruining other peoples races. And with a reputation system they could be weeded out. For example, such a system would have to consider whether you cut the chicane on purpose or if there was a contact and you have been punted off the track. It also needs to consider and punish road blockers, people going reverse deliberately (and ghost them) and rammers. It is definitely no easy task and probably pcars2 stuff, but something has to be done about it for the future.

Lastly, even if some people would get DQd without deserving it every now and then (because no system is 100% perfect), the number of idots being punished would far outweigh that.

ironik
19-08-2015, 09:14
cut corners at flatout equal to disqualify and cutting corners on brakes , at least 2 times warning and speedlimiter , 3rd time disqualify
possible solution

Yeah, that could work IMHO. If the game check the % of throttle or % of brake applied while cutting.
But I bet a player could go full speed and release the throttle just before the cut or even apply just a bit of brake.


There is a difference between not being very good and being a total idiot on purpose.

I dont really agree with the "SMS cant do anything about it" statements. It will probably be quite hard to achieve, but with a sophisticated DQ/penalty, those ramming trolls could at least have a harder time ruining other peoples races. And with a reputation system they could be weeded out. For example, such a system would have to consider whether you cut the chicane on purpose or if there was a contact and you have been punted off the track. It also needs to consider and punish road blockers, people going reverse deliberately (and ghost them) and rammers. It is definitely no easy task and probably pcars2 stuff, but something has to be done about it for the future.

Lastly, even if some people would get DQd without deserving it every now and then (because no system is 100% perfect), the number of idots being punished would far outweigh that.

Of course something could be done (and should ?).
I'm not saying that's impossible but that's potentially hard to do.

Ghosting rammers and implementing the reputation system in public lobbies could help a lot.
As long as it's optionnal, it would be a great feature to have.

Who knows, maybe SMS is already working on it.

FasterThenYou
19-08-2015, 09:24
As far as I remember, the penalty system in place already does that : The 5s penalty can increase to 10s and 45s.
You also have a cut counter increasing. I don't know what happen if you reach 3 cut detection though. (Maybe a stop & go or a DQ ?)

Honestly, I don't know how you could improve the penalty system without any let down...

In real life you have race stewards who can take a decision regarding the race facts. How could you simulate that with a programm ?

I answer your question here, your previous question what woud I do to make the penalty system better....

Anything what it takes. If you wanna simulate the cars as"real ones so you've to simulate regulations as real....you saw in the video he cut on purpose two chicanes and at the end he took me down withe ease.... In a real situation he'll be out after the first chicane m8, right, so, how can we categorize this game a"Sim"when the game is like Arcade to me bro!

• Game lags
• Game stutters in these two cases stuttering and laging are even worse tho, and this should"t be in the game!!! This's should be fixed a long time ago!! But no, improving AI and other stuff is more important then MP mode and make the severs more stable etc, and y'all said"the game looks fine?!?

• track cutting/track limitation, how to improve that;
Somehow! Me personally I can say, rather give us the option to kick dirty drivers out of the race immediately (are we in the lobby be4 the race or during a race, doesn't matter), we NEED to have this option enabled or implemented in the game!!! It's starts all in the Qualifying, there're pushing you, ram you, they need to be kicked out, and that's the point! Did I mention "stucker cars"? Improving AI or make the rain more realistic is important then fix the stucking cars in a race (or in FP, Qualifying)...???

Come on.....

How to improve the penalty system. Just two things
• give us kick option! Kicking out should be done in a lobby or in a race, we've touch pad here for example they can implement like this one there so we can just kick that player out-done!

• such corner cutting as we see in the video should not be penalized with 5-10 sec, he should be like ghost on a track with 20sec (that all cars pass the cheater+ drive through) and if he do such thing like that again immediate DQ!! Even tho I'm for that after the second cut immediate DQ and removing from the race.

Simple is that...... Sry for s long post.

DragonSyr
19-08-2015, 09:33
another think is that the penalty system working some way in career mode (if hit an opponent the DQ or if you cut track for 3 times DQ) why this is not working in mp????

ironik
19-08-2015, 09:45
I answer your question here, your previous question what woud I do to make the penalty system better....

Anything what it takes. If you wanna simulate the cars as"real ones so you've to simulate regulations as real....you saw in the video he cut on purpose two chicanes and at the end he took me down withe ease.... In a real situation he'll be out after the first chicane m8, right, so, how can we categorize this game a"Sim"when the game is like Arcade to me bro!

• Game lags
• Game stutters in these two cases stuttering and laging are even worse tho, and this should"t be in the game!!! This's should be fixed a long time ago!! But no, improving AI and other stuff is more important then MP mode and make the severs more stable etc, and y'all said"the game looks fine?!?

Again, this is a different subject here and I can't comment on that since I don't have any problem.



• track cutting/track limitation, how to improve that;
Somehow! Me personally I can say, rather give us the option to kick dirty drivers out of the race immediately (are we in the lobby be4 the race or during a race, doesn't matter), we NEED to have this option enabled or implemented in the game!!! It's starts all in the Qualifying, there're pushing you, ram you, they need to be kicked out, and that's the point! Did I mention "stucker cars"? Improving AI or make the rain more realistic is important then fix the stucking cars in a race (or in FP, Qualifying)...???

You can't kick someone directly in public lobbies and it's quite logical. It's a public lobby.
IIRC, you can set a private lobby. There you can kick everybody if you're in the lobby.

Why is it impossible to kick someone in a race ? Well, imagine you're first and fair. The host decides that you're too fast => He'll kick you. How fair is that ?



How to improve the penalty system. Just two things
• give us kick option! Kicking out should be done in a lobby or in a race, we've touch pad here for example they can implement like this one there so we can just kick that player out-done!

See my answer above.



• such corner cutting as we see in the video should not be penalized with 5-10 sec, he should be like ghost on a track with 20sec (that all cars pass the cheater+ drive through) and if he do such thing like that again immediate DQ!! Even tho I'm for that after the second cut immediate DQ and removing from the race.

Simple is that...... Sry for s long post.

Yeah that's a good idea to ghost the car when there is a 5s (or more) penalty
Where it's becoming tricky IMO it's how to decide if this is on purpose or an accident / error. (maybe the throttle % could do the trick ?)

Don't excuse yourself for giving more details and for trying to make the game better.


another think is that the penalty system working some way in career mode (if hit an opponent the DQ or if you cut track for 3 times DQ) why this is not working in mp????

Yeah that's kind of working in SP but I saw some complaints about being DQ whereas the player was the victim. In MP, this would be even more complicated I guess.
What would happen if the player in front of you decides to apply full brakes in a straight ?

Bealdor
19-08-2015, 09:45
• Game lags
• Game stutters in these two cases stuttering and laging are even worse tho, and this should"t be in the game!!! This's should be fixed a long time ago!! But no, improving AI and other stuff is more important then MP mode and make the severs more stable etc, and y'all said"the game looks fine?!?


Not everybody seems to suffer from constant lags and stuttering. The devs are working on improvements here too but it could also be your connection or the other player's connection.



• track cutting/track limitation, how to improve that;
Somehow! Me personally I can say, rather give us the option to kick dirty drivers out of the race immediately (are we in the lobby be4 the race or during a race, doesn't matter), we NEED to have this option enabled or implemented in the game!!! It's starts all in the Qualifying, there're pushing you, ram you, they need to be kicked out, and that's the point! Did I mention "stucker cars"? Improving AI or make the rain more realistic is important then fix the stucking cars in a race (or in FP, Qualifying)...???


And how do you protect this kick system against abuse? This will only lead to trolling hosts being able to kick out the fastest guy on track because they want to win.




Come on.....

How to improve the penalty system. Just two things
• give us kick option! Kicking out should be done in a lobby or in a race, we've touch pad here for example they can implement like this one there so we can just kick that player out-done!


Kicking and banning in lobby is already on the list:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32018-Does-Pcars-realy-need-a-clean-player-ranking-system&p=1004389&viewfull=1#post1004389
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29129-MULTIPLAYER-A-LAND-WITHOUT-LAW-%28DEVELOPERS-WATCH-THIS%29&p=1004410&viewfull=1#post1004410

Regarding kicking players on track, see my answer above.



• such corner cutting as we see in the video should not be penalized with 5-10 sec, he should be like ghost on a track with 20sec (that all cars pass the cheater+ drive through) and if he do such thing like that again immediate DQ!! Even tho I'm for that after the second cut immediate DQ and removing from the race.

Simple is that...... Sry for s long post.

And how does additionally ghosting the slower player make this "less arcade"?
How do you determine if the cut was on purpose or a mistake or an avoiding maneuver or a lag/connection error?

Some ghosting feature is also on the to do list: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22118-Online-Trolls!&p=886131&viewfull=1#post886131



Simple is that......

Unfortunately it's far from simple.


Edit: Wow, almost literally ninja'd by ironik.

NemethR
19-08-2015, 09:55
There is a very simple solution.

Rating system.

After a race, players can wote + or - on a driver.
Obviously, a driver who cuts, and crashes into others will get his - from at least 4-5 other drivers.

If a player accumulates a set number of -, he will be banned from online racing for 2 weeks.
If he again accumulates these number of negative feedbacks, he will be banned for 2 months.
And if again, he will be banned forever.

Also the rating of the player should be visible to ALL ingame, so if someone joins with a low rating, people can vote-kick him before the race.

Example:

If player gets mostly negative feedback in 10 races (out of 50), he gets a ban.
Obviously, it does not matter, if someone trolls, because the majority of players need to give negative feedback.
Even if multiple people vote for a negative feedback, it does not matter again, since a clean player will not get 10x negative feedback.

Simple as that :)

ironik
19-08-2015, 09:59
Yeah a rating system could do the trick I guess. (Besides the obvious trolling we might encounter (too fast => I down vote you)

Regarding the ban :




PS guys, we can't ban people from lobbies, it's against the sale of good act or something and we could be sued for restricting a person's gameplay.

NemethR
19-08-2015, 10:02
Regarding the ban :

Blizzard can BAN World of Warcraft player, who actually PAY for playing the game monthly.
So I am pretty sure SMS can do that too legally, as Blizzard can.

Microsoft was able to ban Xbox users who used pirated games.

Just release a new License agreement, what states that people can get banned.

Tony Rickard
19-08-2015, 10:08
There is a difference between not being very good and being a total idiot on purpose. The point is there aren't enough good drivers who treat it like a real race around to populate servers 24/7

Tony Rickard
19-08-2015, 10:11
There is a very simple solution.

Rating system.

After a race, players can wote + or - on a driver.
Obviously, a driver who cuts, and crashes into others will get his - from at least 4-5 other drivers.

If a player accumulates a set number of -, he will be banned from online racing for 2 weeks.
If he again accumulates these number of negative feedbacks, he will be banned for 2 months.
And if again, he will be banned forever.

Also the rating of the player should be visible to ALL ingame, so if someone joins with a low rating, people can vote-kick him before the race.

Example:

If player gets mostly negative feedback in 10 races (out of 50), he gets a ban.
Obviously, it does not matter, if someone trolls, because the majority of players need to give negative feedback.
Even if multiple people vote for a negative feedback, it does not matter again, since a clean player will not get 10x negative feedback.

Simple as that :)Simple way to create conspiracy theories about drivers ganging up on them and about 98% of crashes online are somebody else's fault!

NemethR
19-08-2015, 10:15
Simple way to create conspiracy theories about drivers ganging up on them and about 98% of crashes online are somebody else's fault!

Might be true, but then provide a better solution. (a solution!)

DragonSyr
19-08-2015, 10:16
......
What would happen if the player in front of you decides to apply full brakes in a straight ?

this can be a problem for any penalty system... i can t think something for ... only marshals can solve that

Bealdor
19-08-2015, 10:18
Blizzard can BAN World of Warcraft player, who actually PAY for playing the game monthly.
So I am pretty sure SMS can do that too legally, as Blizzard can.

Microsoft was able to ban Xbox users who used pirated games.

Just release a new License agreement, what states that people can get banned.

Yes they can ban them because cheating and using illegal copies is a violation of TOS. Driving like an idiot in a racing game is not.

Invincible
19-08-2015, 10:18
My idea would be some kind of point system like the German Driver's licence dept. has.

- You get 1 point for every corner cut with time gain in an online race.

- When you accumulate 6 points, you will get banned from online racing for one week. Then you can start again with 0 points. If you accumulate 6 points again, your penalty is two weeks, and so on.

- You can drive your points off. To do that, you'll have to drive 5 consecutive clean* laps in a row. So every 5 clean laps, you'll loose one point.

- Your number of points are visible to other players.

- Points can be driven off over several races. I.e.: You gained 2 points at one race. You manage to drive 1 point off and there are only 2 laps left on this race. So on the next race you'll loose your last point after 3 clean laps.

- When you gain yor 6th point in a race and have more than 5 laps left, you can drive one off. If you can't manage that, you're banned. When there are less than 5 laps left, you are given one last chance in doubt. So the next race, you can drive your points of. Gain 1 point, you're banned. Don't drive your points off, you're banned.

*this means: No cutting, not going off track, no contact.

FasterThenYou
19-08-2015, 10:33
To much to answer, but i īll try it so,

Abuse the kick button?
- Why would be abused? Iīm sure 10000000000000000% that no one would ever kick some one only by"heīs faster then me". I canīt belive it by myself sometimes that on monza iīve 1-1 front/back wing, for example, gear raztion sometimes in the middle or is on max speed, ether way iīll do 282-283 on a straight line, but those dudes in front of me are quicker on a straight line then me, and iīm asking myself-WHY and HOW??? And i just realize, he settet his car better, heīs faster and amen......so, i really dont think that "kick"button"will be abused so much.

As i say to all league racer, itīs normal that u dont have any lag or stuttering (everyone reported that they have indeed stuttering in qualy but ok), but you need to realize that u drive in an optimal conditions, and no wonder ur race is smooth and the racing experience on ta highest level.....it canīt be compared to open lobbies, no at all..!

Ghosting cars,

Letīs say you get like 20secīs after you did a massive cut on a track, your car becomes ghost for 20secīs so everyone can pass u, (cutting track-gained positions illegally etc..), and then add on that drive through. The message should be clear, no dirty cutting the track, no dirty behaving etc... As we can see on the video up there, hes like gained with that track cutting big positions thatīs a problem here! Give him 20 sec while been a ghost would be an better warning to everyone then those 5-10 secīs which are not 5-10 secīs at the end, depends on which track uīre driving, on monza driving full speed through first chikane letīs say u get an 10 seīc penalty, at the end u loose like 3-5 sec or so..bīcoz youīre not stopping immediately!
Or my my favorite-DQ right away!!

Rammed, pushed off the track, shoot off...

How can system know are u on purpose cutting or are u being rammed or pushed of?! Hmmm, if you make an massive cutting thereīs speed, normally that corner u can pass with 60-65kmph, but when u pass it with 250 then weīve a problem here.

Solving one problem will solve many others the "stucking cars" are here massive problem as well. When youīre glued to another car, then thereīs no escape from that sitaution, you gonna be as the other driver going of the track, when rejoining 5 secīs is on me, not him (idk why) and thatīs the problem as well. So fixing this problem will solve some prpblems, like, they will be no more together going out of the track, less penalties, more options when ur are like"head to head"....

ohhh....i hope i covered all :)

ironik
19-08-2015, 10:34
My idea would be some kind of point system like the German Driver's licence dept. has.

- You get 1 point for every corner cut with time gain in an online race.

- When you accumulate 6 points, you will get banned from online racing for one week. Then you can start again with 0 points. If you accumulate 6 points again, your penalty is two weeks, and so on.

- You can drive your points off. To do that, you'll have to drive 5 consecutive clean* laps in a row. So every 5 clean laps, you'll loose one point.

- Your number of points are visible to other players.

- Points can be driven off over several races. I.e.: You gained 2 points at one race. You manage to drive 1 point off and there are only 2 laps left on this race. So on the next race you'll loose your last point after 3 clean laps.

- When you gain yor 6th point in a race and have more than 5 laps left, you can drive one off. If you can't manage that, you're banned. When there are less than 5 laps left, you are given one last chance in doubt. So the next race, you can drive your points of. Gain 1 point, you're banned. Don't drive your points off, you're banned.

*this means: No cutting, not going off track, no contact.

That's actually a good idea, besides "the ban". :)
Maybe SMS could set some "wreckers" lobbies up where people having 6 points (or bad reputation) will end until the week penalty is finished.
After the week penalty they can start again with 0 point in "normal lobbies".
The game should notify them though.

Or maybe a "simple" reputation matching system ?

Furthermore, on xbox360 we had the possibility to "block & ignore" a player. Doing so, the chance of racing with him again is really low. Maybe this could be another way to avoid bad players ?

FasterThenYou
19-08-2015, 10:47
My idea would be some kind of point system like the German Driver's licence dept. has.

- You get 1 point for every corner cut with time gain in an online race.

- When you accumulate 6 points, you will get banned from online racing for one week. Then you can start again with 0 points. If you accumulate 6 points again, your penalty is two weeks, and so on.

- You can drive your points off. To do that, you'll have to drive 5 consecutive clean* laps in a row. So every 5 clean laps, you'll loose one point.

- Your number of points are visible to other players.

- Points can be driven off over several races. I.e.: You gained 2 points at one race. You manage to drive 1 point off and there are only 2 laps left on this race. So on the next race you'll loose your last point after 3 clean laps.

- When you gain yor 6th point in a race and have more than 5 laps left, you can drive one off. If you can't manage that, you're banned. When there are less than 5 laps left, you are given one last chance in doubt. So the next race, you can drive your points of. Gain 1 point, you're banned. Don't drive your points off, you're banned.

*this means: No cutting, not going off track, no contact.

Good one, but how can the race system decide are u on purpose ram another, when u been shoted out of the track...etc..? Even tho, iīve said it earlier, weīve our online stats, why not make stat thatīs tell us are we a clean drivers or not, just like in Asseto Corsa if iīm not wrong. Uīve your racing stat and to race in other leagues uīve to have a good, clean racing ratio to drive with them!

One example,

Me as a driver iīve 1.5 ration on my racing, that number is accumulated based on my track cutting ratio and penalties etc, so my number is 1.5 (clean driver) and another driver with 0.5 ratio should not be able to join in 1.0 ratio+ lobby!! So heīll have to race more to improve his stats to be able to race in higher rated lobbies...

Battlefield have stats as well, they tell u are u good or bad, simple is that, so what that not implement in Project Car, i thing it would be most effective way to prevent dirty drivers to abuse ther unskill on the racing track.

So, setting values from 0 to idk 10 ois debatable but i think this one is even more easier and more practical.

Invincible
19-08-2015, 10:47
That's actually a good idea, besides "the ban". :)
Maybe SMS could set some "wreckers" lobbies up where people having 6 points (or bad reputation) will end until the week penalty is finished.
After the week penalty they can start again with 0 point in "normal lobbies".
The game should notify them though.

Or maybe a "simple" reputation matching system ?


So like a kind of "rehab center"? :p

But I think, drivers there should also be able to loose their points, only that, as long as you're in "rehab", you will need 6 clean laps to loose your "hard earned" points. When you've made it to 0 before the end of the week, you can start in the normal class again.

Invincible
19-08-2015, 10:49
Good one, but how can the race system decide are u on purpose ram another, when u been shooted out of the track...etc..?

Well, if you really are a good clean driver, that one point won't hurt you since you will easily be a able to drive it off.

FasterThenYou
19-08-2015, 10:53
Well, if you really are a good clean driver, that one point won't hurt you since you will easily be a able to drive it off.

itīs not the point am i shooted off or not, itīs the point when iīm being shooted off or rammed, pushed off the track i get penalty :D

Invincible
19-08-2015, 10:56
itīs not the point am i shooted off or not, itīs the point when iīm being shooted off or rammed, pushed off the track i get penalty :D

I know. It's not great, but again, you can drive it off.

ARNAGEist
19-08-2015, 11:32
Martin Brundle commented on the numbers of drivers racing at le Mans when he raced there "there simply aren't 165 world-class drivers ready to do the job". The pro drivers having to be wary of the drivers who were just there for their moment of fame. I think this holds true for sim racing, there simply aren't enough good drivers with an attitude towards sim racing to work in pick up racing unless you are very lucky. The same issue holds true in every sim with open server online racing.

They are mostly damn good amateur drivers like Patrick Dempsey & Simon Dolan, of course they make mistakes but even the pro's do that. change to all pro's and it's lost the spirit of the event and the associated championships

Tony Rickard
19-08-2015, 11:35
Might be true, but then provide a better solution. (a solution!)Either give the community the responsibility to run organised races with admins (i.e. leagues) or go the whole hog and provide a managed racing service like iRacing with scheduled races, limited content and a rating system. However, for the numbers who would sign up to scheduled races the question is whether it would be worth the effort?

Tony Rickard
19-08-2015, 11:40
They are mostly damn good amateur drivers like Patrick Dempsey & Simon Dolan, of course they make mistakes but even the pro's do that. change to all pro's and it's lost the spirit of the event and the associated championshipsThe point isn't to change it but that there aren't enough world class drivers to fill the seats, hence it is different to other events with smaller grids at the highest level (and winning le Mans is right up there with the greatest motorsport achievements)

MikeyTT
19-08-2015, 11:49
My idea would be some kind of point system like the German Driver's licence dept. has.

- You get 1 point for every corner cut with time gain in an online race.

- When you accumulate 6 points, you will get banned from online racing for one week. Then you can start again with 0 points. If you accumulate 6 points again, your penalty is two weeks, and so on.

- You can drive your points off. To do that, you'll have to drive 5 consecutive clean* laps in a row. So every 5 clean laps, you'll loose one point.

- Your number of points are visible to other players.

- Points can be driven off over several races. I.e.: You gained 2 points at one race. You manage to drive 1 point off and there are only 2 laps left on this race. So on the next race you'll loose your last point after 3 clean laps.

- When you gain yor 6th point in a race and have more than 5 laps left, you can drive one off. If you can't manage that, you're banned. When there are less than 5 laps left, you are given one last chance in doubt. So the next race, you can drive your points of. Gain 1 point, you're banned. Don't drive your points off, you're banned.

*this means: No cutting, not going off track, no contact.


That's actually a good idea, besides "the ban". :)
Maybe SMS could set some "wreckers" lobbies up where people having 6 points (or bad reputation) will end until the week penalty is finished.
After the week penalty they can start again with 0 point in "normal lobbies".
The game should notify them though.

Or maybe a "simple" reputation matching system ?

Furthermore, on xbox360 we had the possibility to "block & ignore" a player. Doing so, the chance of racing with him again is really low. Maybe this could be another way to avoid bad players ?

Personally I'm a big fan of a points system. Whilst iRacing takes it to extremes, I think a happy medium could be implemented for pCars.

I'm absolutely against banning people, it will not server the purpose you think it will. For the ADD racers who cheat and behave as per OPs video, they will just move onto some other game for their ban period. They won't be fussed about it. For those that get caught up in other incidents and get banned then there will be thread after thread about it in the forums. You will just alienate the core who actually want to enjoy pCars. Not everyone is a great racer and many make mistakes, even lap after lap, but without bad intentions. Banning people IMO is a huge mistake.

If you could set an "entry level" of points for a lobby you host then you should end up with much better quality lobbies. I also think if you kick a player from a lobby you create you should have the ability to ban them permanently from joining your lobbies in the future (I know DS has this, but I think there should be some local record for normal lobbies too). During the race isn't probably the right place, but certainly afterwards you should be able to see everyone that was racing and be able to kick/ban at that stage.

The game is hardly broken, some people are, however SMS could help a little more in limiting the exposure to these broken people.

TheReaper GT
19-08-2015, 12:54
I don't think console games are allowed to have their own ban list. Blocking the idiot prevent him off joining lobbies were I'm the host, so it's a good method. If you're not the host, too bad.

ironik
19-08-2015, 13:13
Anyway guys :


I'm a hop in and out guy myself. I'm not much of a joiner so we'll work on more robust griefing solutions.

Ian answered many complaints about the griefer and penalty system and he stated that they'll work on it.
So I guess that all we have to do know is wait for the patch. ^^

NemethR
19-08-2015, 13:29
Yes they can ban them because cheating and using illegal copies is a violation of TOS. Driving like an idiot in a racing game is not.

Well, then lets add it to the TOS.

ARNAGEist
19-08-2015, 15:08
The point isn't to change it but that there aren't enough world class drivers to fill the seats, hence it is different to other events with smaller grids at the highest level (and winning le Mans is right up there with the greatest motorsport achievements)

Respectfully I completely disagree, Le Mans & the WEC, TUSC, ELMS etc. has always been and should always include Amateur or Gentlemen drivers, the bigger issue seems to be the quality of the drivers in the Spa 24, that is more like an average on-line GT3 race at Spa.
I could probably think of 160 decent pro drivers (not inc current F1 drivers apart from Hulkenberg) that could do Le Mans if they wanted and ones that have done it in the recent past, but it would just not be the same ( I have been to Le Mans 24 for the last 15 years so I know at least something about it :p )

Tony Rickard
19-08-2015, 15:54
Respectfully I completely disagree, Le Mans & the WEC, TUSC, ELMS etc. has always been and should always include Amateur or Gentlemen drivers, the bigger issue seems to be the quality of the drivers in the Spa 24, that is more like an average on-line GT3 race at Spa.
I could probably think of 160 decent pro drivers (not inc current F1 drivers apart from Hulkenberg) that could do Le Mans if they wanted and ones that have done it in the recent past, but it would just not be the same ( I have been to Le Mans 24 for the last 15 years so I know at least something about it :p )Rather scarily Brundle won le Mans 25 years ago (thought it was just a few years :) ) Anyway in his book "Working the wheel" he describes some of his experiences with the less experienced drivers. Doesn't really matter I just liked the quote and felt it rang true with online sim racing (for different reasons)

MrFlibble81
19-08-2015, 20:55
Rather scarily Brundle won le Mans 25 years ago (thought it was just a few years :) ) Anyway in his book "Working the wheel" he describes some of his experiences with the less experienced drivers. Doesn't really matter I just liked the quote and felt it rang true with online sim racing (for different reasons)

Thanks for making me feel old :/

feloney_x
19-08-2015, 21:17
lol wow i have never seen any do that in mp so far

el3KtroN
19-08-2015, 21:22
in my opinion, people who are shortcutting chicanes without braking hard should be disqualified immediately, because its deliberately. People who are parking on the track for more then 10s too.

kjay
19-08-2015, 21:42
And how do you protect this kick system against abuse? This will only lead to trolling hosts being able to kick out the fastest guy on track because they want to win.



If on a dedicated server, how do you stop a host from simply shutting down the server if others are faster?
The fact that some people are sore losers or sore sports shouldn't matter.
The host of a DS should always be able to kick or ban a player as they see fit. The vast majority ban those who are disruptive in my experience.

F1_Racer68
19-08-2015, 23:45
There is a very simple solution.

Rating system.

After a race, players can wote + or - on a driver.
Obviously, a driver who cuts, and crashes into others will get his - from at least 4-5 other drivers.

If a player accumulates a set number of -, he will be banned from online racing for 2 weeks.
If he again accumulates these number of negative feedbacks, he will be banned for 2 months.
And if again, he will be banned forever.

Also the rating of the player should be visible to ALL ingame, so if someone joins with a low rating, people can vote-kick him before the race.

Example:

If player gets mostly negative feedback in 10 races (out of 50), he gets a ban.
Obviously, it does not matter, if someone trolls, because the majority of players need to give negative feedback.
Even if multiple people vote for a negative feedback, it does not matter again, since a clean player will not get 10x negative feedback.

Simple as that :)

This would only work if you were able to actually read the player's name during the race. Until that gets addressed nothing can be doen to address the idiot issue.

Knightfall
20-08-2015, 02:08
This would only work if you were able to actually read the player's name during the race. Until that gets addressed nothing can be doen to address the idiot issue.

All you have to do to solve this problem is watch the replay before you vote who rammed you. Done.

FasterThenYou
20-08-2015, 10:17
All you have to do to solve this problem is watch the replay before you vote who rammed you. Done.

reply wount solve the issue. The damage is already done in the first chicane i donīt need to watch the reply... Fair is if some one hits u, he can speak on, say"Iīm sry"or something like that, then u will know that hes fair, and continue to drive...! whatīs clear like in the video immediate DQ and removing form the lobby!

NutsMammoth
20-08-2015, 16:34
Do not forget that the Online Reputation already in the game since the beginning still not working:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23707-Online-Reputation

The patch 3.0 was a great update but there are still lot of things to fix and to add for the Online mode in PCars 1.

DidNotFinish
20-08-2015, 17:03
Why don't you race online, DidNotFinish?

See video.

:)

Ramshackle
20-08-2015, 17:18
"They've to figure something out..." when I am hearing this sentence... What are they supposed to do? You can do this in any particular racing game if you want to. If there are people driving like idiots it isnt SMS duty to "figure something out". Join some racing communities. Here a plenty of them looking for fair and clean racing drivers.

Please stop blaming SMS for people who are not driving properly. There cant be a solution for that because if you tighten the penalties and DQ you also punish other people who did not cut on purpose or had to cut the track because of a touching incident with another car.

Take a look here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/forumdisplay.php?135-PS4-Multiplayer-Event-Planning
Lots of active communites trying to avoid the same things you experienced. Trying to organize proper events in a fair racing atmosphere. Give it a try, its worth it trust me!

It's so disheartening to read comments like this from WMD members. I agree that SMS can't do anything to stop people driving like idiots, but they can certainly do something to combat blatant corner cutting, driving the wrong way around the circuit and track blockers. You say this goes on in every racing game, which simply isn't true. Have you ever seen people driving the wrong way around the track in Gran Turismo? Or even track blocking for that matter? No, because the game simply doesn't allow that kind of race ruining idiocy.

As for racing in set events, this simply shouldn't be the only way to get a decent race in Project Cars. Not everyone has the schedule for it. People who bought the game to race online should be able to get on whenever they like and have decent race, rather than only being able to enjoy the game at specific times in the week when scheduled events come around.

F1_Racer68
20-08-2015, 17:52
It's so disheartening to read comments like this from WMD members. I agree that SMS can't do anything to stop people driving like idiots, but they can certainly do something to combat blatant corner cutting, driving the wrong way around the circuit and track blockers. You say this goes on in every racing game, which simply isn't true. Have you ever seen people driving the wrong way around the track in Gran Turismo? Or even track blocking for that matter? No, because the game simply doesn't allow that kind of race ruining idiocy.

As for racing in set events, this simply shouldn't be the only way to get a decent race in Project Cars. Not everyone has the schedule for it. People who bought the game to race online should be able to get on whenever they like and have decent race, rather than only being able to enjoy the game at specific times in the week when scheduled events come around.

You're kidding right? The main reason I am in a league to begin with was because of the same kind of crap happening in GT5 and GT6 as is now happening online in Project CARS. Don't claim it doesn't happen, because it most certainly does. It is inevitable in ANY racing game. It's just more annoying and frustrating in Project CARS because here when you get damage, you actually get damage. Unlike game like GT where the damage either goes away by magic after a few seconds or you limp around for one lap and then good as new.

Whenever cars are involved you will get proper race drivers and you will get the 3 year olds who spend all their time in the sandbox smashing their Hot Wheels into each other. Any system that anyone tries to implement to combat the morons will only serve to penalize those who actually want to race properly.

If SMS ever manages to get the Online Reputation working properly that may be the best solution, but until then, every suggestion so far will hurt me more than the idiots.

Ramshackle
20-08-2015, 18:21
You're kidding right? The main reason I am in a league to begin with was because of the same kind of crap happening in GT5 and GT6 as is now happening online in Project CARS. Don't claim it doesn't happen, because it most certainly does. It is inevitable in ANY racing game. It's just more annoying and frustrating in Project CARS because here when you get damage, you actually get damage. Unlike game like GT where the damage either goes away by magic after a few seconds or you limp around for one lap and then good as new.

Whenever cars are involved you will get proper race drivers and you will get the 3 year olds who spend all their time in the sandbox smashing their Hot Wheels into each other. Any system that anyone tries to implement to combat the morons will only serve to penalize those who actually want to race properly.

If SMS ever manages to get the Online Reputation working properly that may be the best solution, but until then, every suggestion so far will hurt me more than the idiots.

I clocked up many hours racing online in GT. I raced in leagues but mostly played in random lobbies. I can say in all honesty that I never experienced having races ruined by people driving the wrong way around track. And if I remember rightly, time penalties for taking short cuts were severe enough to make the short cuts pointless.

I agree that you can't stop crappy driving, and said the same in my first post. But something can and should be done to combat people who break the absolute fundemental rules of racing, such as wrong way driving, track blocking and short cut takers like the one in the OP's initial post.

TheReaper GT
20-08-2015, 18:25
I clocked up many hours racing online in GT. I raced in leagues but mostly played in random lobbies. I can say in all honesty that I never experienced having races ruined by people driving the wrong way around track. And if I remember rightly, time penalties for taking short cuts were severe enough to make the short cuts pointless.

I agree that you can't stop crappy driving, and said the same in my first post. But something can and should be done to combat people who break the absolute fundemental rules of racing, such as wrong way driving, track blocking and short cut takers like the one in the OP's initial post.

I agree with your post. But I was never so lucky as you, the gt track cutting really works against people that may cuts. But when people want to ram you off track or just disturb your race, nothing can be done. That's sad, but true.

Tony Rickard
20-08-2015, 18:41
I agree with your post. But I was never so lucky as you, the gt track cutting really works against people that may cuts. But when people want to ram you off track or just disturb your race, nothing can be done. That's sad, but true.Very true. Driving the wrong way or driving through chicanes is at the extreme level but stopping those doesn't come close to providing quality wheel to wheel racing. There are idiots just out to cause carnage through contact, those aggressive types that genuinely believe they are "hard but fair", those that think everyone else is at fault and drivers who simply make make loads of mistakes but still ruin your race. Automatically distinguishing between them isn't an easy task.

Knightfall
20-08-2015, 18:46
reply wount solve the issue. The damage is already done in the first chicane i donīt need to watch the reply... Fair is if some one hits u, he can speak on, say"Iīm sry"or something like that, then u will know that hes fair, and continue to drive...! whatīs clear like in the video immediate DQ and removing form the lobby!

I was quoting someone else.

FasterThenYou
20-08-2015, 19:05
Do not forget that the Online Reputation already in the game since the beginning still not working:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23707-Online-Reputation

The patch 3.0 was a great update but there are still lot of things to fix and to add for the Online mode in PCars 1.

that would be amazing when/if they put reputation "online" so players with good reputation are allowed to drive in a lobby that is set to letīs say1.5 rep, all players under are not allowed to race in that lobby..!!

FasterThenYou
20-08-2015, 19:07
It's so disheartening to read comments like this from WMD members. I agree that SMS can't do anything to stop people driving like idiots, but they can certainly do something to combat blatant corner cutting, driving the wrong way around the circuit and track blockers. You say this goes on in every racing game, which simply isn't true. Have you ever seen people driving the wrong way around the track in Gran Turismo? Or even track blocking for that matter? No, because the game simply doesn't allow that kind of race ruining idiocy.

As for racing in set events, this simply shouldn't be the only way to get a decent race in Project Cars. Not everyone has the schedule for it. People who bought the game to race online should be able to get on whenever they like and have decent race, rather than only being able to enjoy the game at specific times in the week when scheduled events come around.

exact my word, respect bro!! no one from the wmdīs or sms will say"yes, weīve problem here", no...everyone says"find a private lobby".."play with your buddies" etc, no one will confront with the problem...only avoiding it....shame!

TheReaper GT
20-08-2015, 19:09
that would be amazing when/if they put reputation "online" so players with good reputation are allowed to drive in a lobby that is set to letīs say1.5 rep, all players under are not allowed to race in that lobby..!!

I don't think automatic segregation is a good thing. That way, people beginning in the game, people that got negative points due to be pushed out of track and therefore unintentionally cutting will be kept off the called good lobbies. The rep system is a good thing if it's used by good hosts to help judge when a player had an accident or is an idiot.

FasterThenYou
20-08-2015, 19:11
I don't think automatic segregation is a good thing. That way, people beginning in the game, people that got negative points due to be pushed out of track and therefore unintentionally cutting will be pretty of the called good lobbies. The rep system is a good thing if it's used by good hosts to help judge when a player had an accident or is an idiot.

thatīs what am i talking about!! weīve to solve this one, is a major issue here...i hope the sms are take a look here, itīs very important!!

Ramshackle
20-08-2015, 19:17
I agree with your post. But I was never so lucky as you, the gt track cutting really works against people that may cuts. But when people want to ram you off track or just disturb your race, nothing can be done. That's sad, but true.

I believe something could be done to discourage those who slam into people at speed from behind. The game has a decent damage model, so if you run hard into the back of someone, a time penalty could be triggered by heavy front end damage. I can't see how side swiping could ever be addressed, but the main point of concern for myself and a lot of other players for now is the blatant breaking of fundemental racing rules (the kind that would get anyone instantly disqualified in any real world racing series).

It still blows my mind when I see people driving the wrong way around, blocking corners or taking huge shortcuts in this game. You'd think such nonsense would have been nipped in the bud shortly after release, but here we are nearly 6 months later and those issues are still plaguing multiplayer.

FasterThenYou
20-08-2015, 19:21
I believe something could be done to discourage those who slam into people at speed from behind. The game has a decent damage model, so if you run hard into the back of someone, a time penalty could be triggered by heavy front end damage. I can't see how side swiping could ever be addressed, but the main point of concern for myself and a lot of other players for now is the blatant breaking of fundemental racing rules (the kind that would get anyone instantly disqualified in any real world racing series).

It still blows my mind when I see people driving the wrong way around, blocking corners or taking huge shortcuts in this game. You'd think such nonsense would have been nipped in the bud shortly after release, but here we are nearly 6 months later and those issues are still plaguing multiplayer.

whatīs with the car thatīs been hit? no damage? hard to make this concept tbh!

TheReaper GT
20-08-2015, 19:25
I believe something could be done to discourage those who slam into people at speed from behind. The game has a decent damage model, so if you run hard into the back of someone, a time penalty could be triggered by heavy front end damage. I can't see how side swiping could ever be addressed, but the main point of concern for myself and a lot of other players for now is the blatant breaking of fundemental racing rules (the kind that would get anyone instantly disqualified in any real world racing series).

It still blows my mind when I see people driving the wrong way around, blocking corners or taking huge shortcuts in this game. You'd think such nonsense would have been nipped in the bud shortly after release, but here we are nearly 6 months later and those issues are still plaguing multiplayer.

I think that would be a big problem too , because of the braking idiots. Those that realise you're in the draft, ready to overtake, than brake like they have an anchor, making you rear end them. The people going wrong way and parking should be dq after 10 seconds and have their cars removed. After a dq like that, 15 min unable to join any lobby would do the trick.

Ramshackle
20-08-2015, 20:04
I think that would be a big problem too , because of the braking idiots. Those that realise you're in the draft, ready to overtake, than brake like they have an anchor, making you rear end them. The people going wrong way and parking should be dq after 10 seconds and have their cars removed. After a dq like that, 15 min unable to join any lobby would do the trick.

Yeah I suppose that would just make it easy for people to slam on the brakes while slipstreaming. But like I say, general rough play isn't my main concern. It's all the other race ruining shenanigans. Completely agree with you on the DQ's. 10 seconds driving the wrong way and you're automatically kicked out. Same goes for idling on track. As for corner cutters, three strikes and you're out of the race.

Black_Gold_Saw
20-08-2015, 20:11
Ez fix for this problem.
Like they do in real life u know... Cut a corner, get a warning. Cur a corner again last warning. Cur a corner AGAIN disqualified.
Not like now, 'stay on the island' - 'this is ur 2nd warning' blablabla, cut everywhere u want without any problem. Like baseball '3rd time U'RE OUT!!'
There ya go...

Doing the smashing thing yeah well nothing can be done to that problem 'YET'

FasterThenYou
20-08-2015, 20:29
Ez fix for this problem.
Like they do in real life u know... Cut a corner, get a warning. Cur a corner again last warning. Cur a corner AGAIN disqualified.
Not like now, 'stay on the island' - 'this is ur 2nd warning' blablabla, cut everywhere u want without any problem. Like baseball '3rd time U'RE OUT!!'
There ya go...

Doing the smashing thing yeah well nothing can be done to that problem 'YET'

I disagree somehow, but concept is good, only one thing, when a dude cuts a corner with no braking with full speed. System should know that we have a pro cheater here-immediate DQ!!

They've to make the a fine do three things
• when you get pushed out of a track and when u rejoin-NO 5 SEC PENALTY!!
• Immediate DQ after full throttle track cutting!
• first cut 5 sec
second cut 10
third 20 sec or DQ!

And of course those dude who drive backwards-immediate DQ
Dudes who park their car in the middle of a track/apex- immediate DQ (remove them in the Pit)
Dudes that dont start, who are on their position after the start-after 10/15 sec cars remove from the track!

But the penalty system should be simple bcoz those situations are "simple"situation.

I'm still a big fan of a system with reputation, if you have good rep then you've can enter certain lobbies. If a open my lobby and set rep point to 1.5 (for example), only 1.5+ can enter the lobby and race those under not.

The rep think should be integrated in Career mode and base on that (driving season two) you've your Rep point which tells you in which lobbies u can enter and in which not.

mister dog
20-08-2015, 22:21
Once the online rep part is implemented (see link and scroll down):

http://www.projectcarsgame.com/online.html

I think it will be a good first step in identifying the boneheads out there. Combine that with an improved kick system and all will be well in online land.