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View Full Version : Why is the Force Feedback bad in this game?



Nats
19-08-2015, 12:35
Just got my Driving Force GT wheel and set it up for Project Cars. After playing with my MS Sidewinder joystick I was really interested to find out what the extra driving control and feel of the game would be like with the wheel. And yeah...hmmm. Well the control is there ok. I love the feeling of the cars in this game in terms of grip etc on the roads - no other game has ever felt right like this game does they all feel like driving on ice compared to this game. And driving a car myself I can say that this game reflects most closely how it actually feels. - So control and feel of the car itself in the game is great.

But force feedback ... its flipping terrible! Its absolutely nothing like driving a real car. Now of course this is with my GT wheel and may be better with other wheels, and its with the Clio because that's the closest car to my own car so its the only one I can talk about with any semblance of authority. But yeah - FF nothing like a real car. I set the FF on classic and the wheel was really stiff to turn. Now I don't know about you but I can drive my real life car with two fingers on the wheel, power steering being what it is. As long as the car is moving even if by a few mm the wheel is very easy to turn - no resistance at all and with only slight re-centering force. Nothing like how it is in this game it has to be said. The fact the centering force increases around corners and when you try to turn at high speed - its just completely wrong. Going fast around a corner in real car doesn't affect the steering that much at all.

Then there is the feel of the track or rather lack of! When I am driving a real car I can feel every grain of road generally, I can tell when I go over rough and smooth ground. AI can feel every bump in the seat (not so much the wheel for bumps though). So why cant I feel anything here? I don't feel the kerbs, I don't feel the road, I don't feel the grass or bumps in the road or in fact anything much at all other than the above mentioned centering force. I remember playing F1 Challenge. That game was remarkably simple in terms of FF settings - in fact I think it was probably just on or off! Yet I could feel the kerbs and the bumps. It really pulled me into the game and that was with my FF joystick not an expensive wheel. This game has a multitude of complicated sounded settings for every flipping FF thing under the sun and yet it still doesn't manage to reflect any FF on the road at all? Whats going on?

Finally does anyone else feel like driving this game is like driving a car of jelly? I turn the wheel and there is a slight pause in the turn of the car - too much of a pause in fact. It feels like you are controlling a drivers arms with your wheel NOT controlling the car itself. Now I am aware that in real life there is a certain pause in between turning the wheel and actually turning the car. While the tyre grip changes and the tyres flex etc you need to turn a miniscule before a corner to turn tightly. But in this game there is too much of a pause - too much lag. It really doesn't feel like you are connected to the car itself but like I say connected to a driver who is connected to the wheel of the car. All this about flex that is built into the FF to simulate arms etc? What is that for? Are we controlling the car or are we controlling the driver? So yeah not a fan of that type of lag in the game - it really feels like I am not entirely in direct control of the car.

It may seem trifling - mentioning things like centering fore, FF feel and control lag. But I think these things are important part of being immersed in the driving experience. And when F1C can get it so right with its simple settings and this game cant with its overly complex settings there's got to be something amiss! I was really hoping to see something much simpler in terms of FF from this patch after reading the notes but nothing much has changed at all. Why on earth cant we just have simple FF settings that we can actually configure that make sense - like kerb, road surface, bumps, and centering. That would more than make me happy! I don't need these complex settings especially when they don't seem to actually do anything at all IMO.

Anyway I would be interested to hear what others think about this stuff. As I say it could be just me and my wheel - but my experience is not that great and from reading about others and seeing how many posts there are about FF it does make me wonder - why on earth cant they just simplify it and make it work with the important things! Even Euro Truck Sim 1 has better FF than this game (sorry to be a heretic there, but its true)!!

TrevorAustin
19-08-2015, 12:42
The problem is you can;t feel those things, in real life, through the wheel, really concentrate next time you are driving, you fel them through the seat, your feet and legs, etc.

The force feedback in this game is actually excellent.

Everybody says AC has great FFB, it doesn't it uses canned FFB at silly levels to make you think you can feel those things through your hands.

If you download any of the really good mods, like for example the F1 Renault 3.5 mod, there is a PDf attachment telling you to turn down the AC "canned FFB" effects as they ruin the feel of a car giving accurate wheel based FFB feedback.

However with the new sliders you can get Project Cars to simulate that feel, although not as exaggerated, if you use the classic preset, then put about twice the deadzone remopval in you should have, you actually do get a good roadfeel through the wheel.

aerchak
19-08-2015, 12:44
I've never really understood why "good force feedback" is equated to "assloads of bumpsteer" by so many people.

Nats
19-08-2015, 12:51
I am sorry to disagree but yes you can feel hitting kerbs in the wheel. And without investing in yet another piece of equipment my wheel is how I feel the FF effects. So yes this is important in this game. I dont like the road feel in Euro Truck but in very other respect the FF is better in that game than this one IMO.

And the whole name of Force Feedback does actually give you a clue. Its feedback. On the driving experience. Its not just simulating the turning of a wheel (which it doesnt its simulating turning the drivers arms which is plainly wrong to me).

And if you really concentrated you would know that steering wheels are not resistant to turning. So no the FF in this game is not very good at all. But hey thats just my personal opinion.

ibby
19-08-2015, 12:54
If you got really stiff ffb even with classic setting there might be some other setting wrong.
Last time I had weird ffb the softclip values somehow jumped from 0 to 0.1
Might wanna put them to 0.
Also obviously you could have changed the tyreforce setting too high or in the car you drove put the masterclass too high in the setup.

Hengist
19-08-2015, 12:57
Anyway I would be interested to hear what others think about this stuff.

I remember back from my days of combat flight sims. There was one sim that came along that generated its force feedback dynamically from the aerodynamic forces of the surface controls. Most of the other combat flight sims generated their force feedback via table data. This new dynamic method, on paper, seemed the better option, but in reality it was terrible and the sims that used table generated data were much better. it was a case of good in theory, but terrible in practice. I think that we have something similar occurring here.

Liquid7394
19-08-2015, 12:57
Try setting up FFB first, the defaults aren't good. Lower tyre force if the steering is too heavy, mine is at about 45. Then use one of Jack Spades settings or come up with your own.

rams1de
19-08-2015, 13:08
I've never really understood why "good force feedback" is equated to "assloads of bumpsteer" by so many people.

Probably because in some games there is little to feel other than rumble and resistance to turning the wheel.

FFB in PCARS is anything but bad however it's very, very complicated and due to unhelpful in-game descriptions and settings all over the GUI, it's almost impossible for most players to fathom.

Hlspwn
19-08-2015, 13:37
Yeh I agree, I think the tire model is very complicated, and getting that to relate to ffb with different wheels must be very difficult, else it would have been cracked by now. I think sometimes we can get a little hung up on ffb settings though. At the moment I just use the default setting as it not being lazy, I just have not had the time to really spend some hours getting it just right, when I do get time I just want to play. I hunger for game time.

When I tried AC it worked out of the box, wish we could get that with project cars.

The one thing I think project cars does not simulate very well is wheel spin. Now these may be canned affects in AC, but project cars does not compare. I remember my fwd revo'd Ibiza if you had the wheel spin where you have slip and grip, the dash and car would bounce up the road. Much like the f430 can do the same with more movement on the rear. As project cars does not have Ferrari I have only had AC to compare, and it felt pretty similar.

Agree with Trevor, there is only so much affect you should realistically have through the wheel, other sources are then needed.

Sad thing is we can't all have a Cruden in the living room.

Tony Rickard
19-08-2015, 13:44
And if you really concentrated you would know that steering wheels are not resistant to turning. Really?

TrevorAustin
19-08-2015, 13:51
Yeh I agree, I think the tire model is very complicated, and getting that to relate to ffb with different wheels must be very difficult, else it would have been cracked by now. I think sometimes we can get a little hung up on ffb settings though. At the moment I just use the default setting as it not being lazy, I just have not had the time to really spend some hours getting it just right, when I do get time I just want to play. I hunger for game time.

When I tried AC it worked out of the box, wish we could get that with project cars.

The one thing I think project cars does not simulate very well is wheel spin. Now these may be canned affects in AC, but project cars does not compare. I remember my fwd revo'd Ibiza if you had the wheel spin where you have slip and grip, the dash and car would bounce up the road. Much like the f430 can do the same with more movement on the rear. As project cars does not have Ferrari I have only had AC to compare, and it felt pretty similar.

Agree with Trevor, there is only so much affect you should realistically have through the wheel, other sources are then needed.

Sad thing is we can't all have a Cruden in the living room.

slip is so canned in AC there is a slider for it:)

I'm a bit spoilt with the simvibe setup, so I like to feel in the wheel what I should, not all the stuff that should come from other areas. You can tweak it to do that, and yes I agree there should be a preset that gives AC like FFB for those that want it. It is doable.

Nats
19-08-2015, 18:59
Really?

Yes.

(dont you just hate one word answers as contributing absolutely nothing)

And after reading a few of these answers - yes, on the drive home I did concentrate more on what I felt in the steering wheel alone and guess what - yes I can feel absolutely the road surface through my steering wheel and bumps. So go figure. And when you think abut it of course you will - the wheel is tied to the car itself its not on suspension. It will feel everything the car feels and your seat feels. It may not be as deep a sensation as you get through the seat but it is absolutely there nevertheless.

And yes the wheel is very easy to turn on a modern car with power steering when in movement. And I am sure it will be the case on modern racing cars as well. I am sure the G-Force is far more of an issue for drivers that turning the wheel lol. You just have to watch races on MotorTV to see how lightly the drivers grip their wheels. Anyway I have adjusted it to make recentering lighter but it still doesnt give me any feeling from the track at all which is a shame.

I just wanted to discuss it to see if anyone else felt the same way because Ive only come to this game recently and it something that jumped out at me. Yes the graphics and racing is amazing but the FF is not, its probably the worst thing about an otherwise good game really.

And yes in other simpler games sometimes all you do sense is the rumble and centering - but thats more than you get in this game at the moment! There are absolutely no sensations of the track at all. And I find that mystifying considering the complexity of the FF settings. I might have to try setting them all to max sometime just to see if they change anything at all. But they really need a default setting or two that actually give you track sensations even very basic ones. It would really add to the immersion of the game. We aren't all mechanics graduates. Some of us want to start a game and actually play it - not spend the whole time messing with settings.

Aizcold
19-08-2015, 19:15
If your wheel is too heavy to turn simply lower the tyre force or the steering gain. I too don't like the wheel feeling too heavy and having a lot of resistance when turning it, but apparently some people do. Now that I've set tyre force to around 50 and steering gain to 1.00 in the force feedback calibration menu it feels a lot better to me and also a lot more like turning the wheel of a real car.

Liquid7394
19-08-2015, 19:22
Some of us want to start a game and actually play it - not spend the whole time messing with settings.
So just use Jack Spades settings and be done with it.

Nats
19-08-2015, 20:01
So just use Jack Spades settings and be done with it.

What settings?

Spitfire77
19-08-2015, 20:10
What settings?

I am guessing from what you are saying you would like the fy+SoPlateral, 66%, or bumps plus ones from Jack Spade..

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files

You will also need to compress the FFB .. he has a chart on his post, go for the A or B high compression settings for Relative Adj and soft clip.

I also don't use a DFGT on this game (but I do own one for my ps3) so not sure what you should set your Main FFB, TireForce and Steering gain to.. but I am gussing FFB=100, TF=60 and Steering Gain = .75 - and the DFGT deadzone removal should be around .03-.05 is what most people say..

MyBailey07
19-08-2015, 20:24
I am guessing from what you are saying you would like the fy+SoPlateral, 66%, or bumps plus ones from Jack Spade..

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files

You will also need to compress the FFB .. he has a chart on his post, go for the A or B high compression settings for Relative Adj and soft clip.

Then I also don't use a DFGT on this game (but I do own one for my ps3) so not sure what you should set your Main FFB, TireForce and Steering gain to.. but I am gussing FFB=100, TF=60 and Steering Gain = .75

The above quote sums up my whole problem with the whole FFB design and settings. Yes, the post is helpful and 100% factually correct, but think about it for a second from someone reading this that just wants to play the game and has not spend hours reading forum posts and halfway on his/her masters degree in FFB setup's point of view. It almost sounds like someone is talking a different language. It sounds to me like when I, as a non-medical person, reads a medical report. Yes, I can see it is english, it just means absolutely nothing to me unless I am an expert.

The whole FFB design, a million meaningless settings and needing external files to make it work is so needlessly complex. Too much flexibility is not always a good thing...

Just my thoughts...I might be wrong :-)

Nats
19-08-2015, 20:37
The above quote sums up my whole problem with the whole FFB design and settings. Yes, the post is helpful and 100% factually correct, but think about it for a second from someone reading this that just wants to play the game and has not spend hours reading forum posts and halfway on his/her masters degree in FFB setup's point of view. It almost sounds like someone is talking a different language. It sounds to me like when I, as a non-medical person, reads a medical report. Yes, I can see it is english, it just means absolutely nothing to me unless I am an expert.

The whole FFB design, a million meaningless settings and needing external files to make it work is so needlessly complex. Too much flexibility is not always a good thing...

Just my thoughts...I might be wrong :-)

I fully agree, its just jibberish to me. I will try those tyre force settings but as for the other stuff it just goes right over my head lol. I mean I know people are trying to help but I think I am trying to raise the issue rather than reach a solution here in this post. How easy would it be for SMS to produce a few presets that enable a few bumps and kerb rattle? Its surely not difficult? I mean even if there was a place on this forum for people to post their FF settings for their various wheels might help.

But I think my comments about the centering force being too strong, the lack of course feedback and the jelly laggy feel to the controls still stand. We need some presets. I thought that was what we were getting with 3.0 but we didnt.

I just dont know why we have all these settings its not as if 99% of the racers playing this game wouldnt be happy with a simple rattle over the kerbs and a few bumps lol ... sometimes things dont have to be made complicated just because they can be. Sometimes simplicity is better.

We didnt have all these setting in games like Grand Prix 4 and F1C and those two games are considered two of the greats in racing computer games, if not the best racing games. The FF in F1C, particularly, is the best FF I have felt in any game ever.

aerchak
19-08-2015, 20:39
It's almost like you have to devote time to setting things up in an extremely in-depth racing simulator.

TrevorAustin
19-08-2015, 20:40
I fully agree, its just jibberish to me. I will try those tyre force settings but as for the other stuff it just goes right over my head lol. I mean I know people are trying to help but I think I am trying to raise the issue rather than reach a solution here in this post. How easy would it be for SMS to produce a few presets that enable a few bumps and kerb rattle? Its surely not difficult? I mean even if there was a place on this forum for people to post their FF settings for their various wheels might help.

But I think my comments about the centering force being too strong, the lack of course feedback and the jelly laggy feel to the controls still stand. We need some presets. I thought that was what we were getting with 3.0 but we didnt.

I just dont know why we have all these settings its not as if 99% of the racers playing this game wouldnt be happy with a simple rattle over the kerbs and a few bumps lol ... sometimes things dont have to be made complicated just because they can be. Sometimes simplicity is better.

There are several great posts, jack spades, BManics, doing exactly what you want. QUite why, espefcially Jacks haven't been built in as presets, well not a clue. Easy workaround if you know what you are doing. A minefield if not.

Spitfire77
19-08-2015, 20:57
I agree the game's FFB system is over the top.. when I first got it and I brought home print outs with Jack's settings and explained to my wife what they were for she said it was nuts.. and she was/is right.

BUT This was the racing game for ps4 - really besides Drive Club this is it - I really wanted to play and not learn the FFB (which default was terrible for me at launch) so knowing Jack had a higher end wheel I blindly followed his instructions for lower end wheels and picked the compression set (B). Then picked a few cars I was curious about and put in his classic FFB settings for those individual cars.. like magic the FFB for the game had been transformed and I was having a blast. I then read some stuff from bManic and improved it a little more.

It has been months and I am just now really trying to learn them and fine tune them for my personal liking.. I have switched to his fy+SoPlateral plus some personal tweaks I add myself for each car.

Do I wish project cars had easy to understand FFB settings like GT6 does on ps3 where I just jumped on and with only a few trys got it set well - YES - well sort of .. it would have been nice to start. SMS should have implemented something better for plug and play.. But being able to fine tune a favorite car to feel just right for me.. now I am really glad the FFB system is completely complex (or nuts)

John Hargreaves
19-08-2015, 21:15
I agree the game's FFB system is over the top.. when I first got it and I brought home print outs with Jack's settings and explained to my wife what they were for she said it was nuts.. and she was/is right

Well yeah, she's right and all, but since when did that ever stop us?

PzR Slim
19-08-2015, 21:26
As others have said try Jacks settings. There are awesome. Read the whole thread, it's long but worth it and you will learn lots. His settings transform the ffb. Probably the best ffb in any game for me at the moment. I've never felt more connected than I do in PCars.

Tony Rickard
19-08-2015, 21:35
And if you really concentrated you would know that steering wheels are not resistant to turning. So no the FF in this game is not very good at all. But hey thats just my personal opinion.
Really?
Yes.

(dont you just hate one word answers as contributing absolutely nothing)It was a genuine question, surprised that anyone would think turning the steering wheel of a race car would offer no resistance. You can't compare a race car even one with power assisted steering with a modern typical every day road car. My road car has a sport mode which makes the steering heavier (i.e. provides greater effort to turn, hence more resistance) but it is nothing like the non power assisted steering we had in cars of the past and certainly nothing like race cars. Modern ones have power assisted steering simply because without they would be almost impossible to practically drive for a race distance - see the sweat pouring off a driver when they fail!

Race and rally cars have quick racks, these are higher geared so rotate less and therefore become harder to turn (just like setting off in top gear on a pushbike), power assistance where fitted is limited to just what is needed because it reduces steering feel.

Nats
19-08-2015, 22:08
Well I have started to feel some kerb sensation in my wheel after a bit of setting changes (god knows what the setting do that I changed) but its very light and when you go over the large bumps in Brands Hatch - nothing at all! And now I have heavier steering which is not good. I play this game for entertainment not a workout.

I will see if I can tinker with it a bit more but not really interested in spending loads of time on this sort of stuff. I just want to race and feel a bit of immersion through the wheel.

The FF is just too damn complicated. It doesn't do what it needs to - well perhaps without major tinkering for months on end and creating different profiles for every car. And there is no way I am going to ever do that. All I want is a profile I can load in and then alter slightly the centering and the bumps etc. Dont want to take a flaming course in FF settings just to do that. Needs some rational thinking in this section of the game, someone who is going to say ok lets put that into something normal gamers can understand.

As for resistance to turning a wheel I am sure that skidding around corners in a race car is a bit more onerous in terms fo forces than driving around a bend in a normal Clio but I dont think its anything like as much as the vanilla settings in this game protray which is more like driving a bulldoser not a racing car. And watch the races in Motors TV - they hardly hold the wheels at all.

rosko
19-08-2015, 22:11
The problem is you can;t feel those things, in real life, through the wheel, really concentrate next time you are driving, you fel them through the seat, your feet and legs, etc.

The force feedback in this game is actually excellent.

Everybody says AC has great FFB, it doesn't it uses canned FFB at silly levels to make you think you can feel those things through your hands.

If you download any of the really good mods, like for example the F1 Renault 3.5 mod, there is a PDf attachment telling you to turn down the AC "canned FFB" effects as they ruin the feel of a car giving accurate wheel based FFB feedback.

However with the new sliders you can get Project Cars to simulate that feel, although not as exaggerated, if you use the classic preset, then put about twice the deadzone remopval in you should have, you actually do get a good roadfeel through the wheel.

I can feel the road through the wheel in my car, when i had my elise it was even more obvious. Go sit in a Caterham & tell me you can't feel anything.

thegt500
19-08-2015, 22:15
To me, the FFB feels great (PS4 and T300RS wheel), but the cost of getting it feeling great, I've had to spend hours setting all the cars up using Jack Spades recommendations.
Surely there can be an easier way than the multitude of sliders we have now ? GT6 had just two FFB set up options, basically strength and feeling sliders. Now the FFB in pCARS is infinitely better than GT6, but at least you spent less time fiddling and more time racing in GT.
The actual 'feel' of a car is, I understand, a very personal thing. Some prefer a stable, safe neutral feel, others (myself included), like something more raw and demanding that needs taming. Surely it would be better to have a list of preset characteristics built into the FFB for individual cars that can be used for you to test drive, and ultimately tweak to your liking rather than the daunting list we have now, with no real explanation of what the heck they do.
I'd love to have the spare time to sit and tweak, test, repeat but life, wife, work and sleep keep getting in my way. As it is, I have a couple of hours every other day to play, and I'd rather be actually driving the cars rather than setting them up !

Aizcold
19-08-2015, 23:46
Honestly, it's pretty simple to just use the Jack Spade settings or some other settings people have posted and it doesn't take too much time at all. Maybe a minute per car, but you only do that when you actually use that car. So to the OP I would say, have a look at that thread and use the Google docs spreadsheet if you're on console or simply load the settings into your game if you're on PC. There may be no presets by SMS, but these settings work just as well as a good preset and really make the FFB much better than the default settings.

In the controller settings I've only really changed the tyre force and the steering gain. Those two can be easily be used to adjust the strength of the FFB and how heavy the steering feels. Other than that I stick to the Jack Spade settings even though I have no idea what most of the settings mean, but it works fine :D

Sure some better explanations by SMS or some built in templates would be nice, but those aren't in the game (yet) so why make it difficult for yourself by fiddling with settings that you know nothing about? Pick a template, apply it in the game and then go from there if you think it still needs fine tuning. I promise you, it's a hell of a lot easier do that than to keep messing around with it yourself.

TrevorAustin
20-08-2015, 07:09
I can feel the road through the wheel in my car, when i had my elise it was even more obvious. Go sit in a Caterham & tell me you can't feel anything.

I just did.

I habe driven a lot of cars, elise and caterham especially you feel through your body not your hands.

Human_bean
20-08-2015, 09:27
Can confirm, enjoying the game more with Jack Sparrows classic settings.

Lagoa
20-08-2015, 09:37
Well, I agree with OP. All these settings, I don't wanne understand and I don't wanne learn them.. Not interested at all. Just want to race. The game doesn't explain anything, goes for tuning the car aswell. Most people playing this game are gamers, seriously, WHO understands these settings without going on a forum or google. I refuse to read pages long threads on FFB and download Jack Payne settings or whatever.. I do have a life and limited time to play.

But at OP, I have to dissagree what concerns the default FFB. I don't yet have patch 3.0 so can't compare. But I have the default setup and lower tire force to 50 and FFB strenght to 85 or something. And I think the FFB is quite good. On most cars.. Certainly if you compare with Forza for example.

alrickitson
20-08-2015, 09:51
I completely agree that the game should be set up like the Jack mod out the box. I did however spend 30mins figuring out that mod & now the force feedback is perfect. Why the devs can't do what he did is beyond me but luckily it was a fairly quick fix for me. The difference is night & day.

TassyDevil
20-08-2015, 10:42
Can confirm, enjoying the game more with Jack Sparrows classic settings.

btw, that should be Jack Spade!

Not being picky, but Jack has put one hell of a lot of time and effort into the FFB tweaks and I feel sure there is a lot of ppl on this forum who have continued with pcars because of his dedication.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files.

👍👌

Human_bean
20-08-2015, 12:23
http://31.media.tumblr.com/737db886d18b3b190f9e656972fdbccd/tumblr_inline_ngpbga9Sqk1qfr700.gif

Nats
20-08-2015, 12:48
Lol the FF setting system in this game is the kind of system that Jack Sparrow would come up with that's the funny thing

"You want you to find this, because the finding of this finds you incapacitorially finding and or locating in your discovering the detecting of a way to save your dolly belle, ol' what's-her-face. Savvy?"

Jezza819
20-08-2015, 14:10
btw, that should be Jack Spade!

Not being picky, but Jack has put one hell of a lot of time and effort into the FFB tweaks and I feel sure there is a lot of ppl on this forum who have continued with pcars because of his dedication.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files.

����

Without his numbers I would be totally lost.

poet
20-08-2015, 14:33
Well, I agree with OP. All these settings, I don't wanne understand and I don't wanne learn them.. Not interested at all. Just want to race. The game doesn't explain anything, goes for tuning the car aswell. Most people playing this game are gamers, seriously, WHO understands these settings without going on a forum or google. I refuse to read pages long threads on FFB and download Jack Payne settings or whatever.. I do have a life and limited time to play.


So buy an Xbox Gamepad and use that then?

Simples. :)

ONT
20-08-2015, 16:41
Sounds like most agree Jack Spade settings are better than default, can they be one of the options in game ?

Sounds like a simple thing to add in next patch :)

And give the man some credit, or a few $ for the effort.

the-D-
20-08-2015, 16:50
Why should he? Like me he probably had to buy a new wheel to play this simulator, I, like a shit load of others have lives n jobs and therefor have no time to faff about making a car feel like it should with sliders and external apps or spreadsheets. These days when my friends want to use a car that I have yet to take the time to fix the 'simulated' force feedback to what I 'think' is a representation of a real world equivalent, I just generally turn the game off and watch a film. I love this game and I really do question the devs when it comes to the implementation of the FFB, why in a sim does the end user have to make a judgement call as to what it should feel like,....what really gets my goat are these sycophants that look for likes from like minded arseholes and the blueman group by defending against real things that should have been addressed in the first place.

So buy an Xbox Gamepad and use that then?

Simples. :)

Sampo
20-08-2015, 17:14
Sounds like most agree Jack Spade settings are better than default, can they be one of the options in game ?


Most in this thread do, not most people. I don't have any problem with the defaults for example (classic). It would be a nice 'experiment' to have one of the Spade settings as another mode in the FFB settings and see if people liked that the best of the available selections. My guess is it would feel as bad as any other of the defaults to the most vocal people. :)

Edit: I have to confess, that I'm not that fussy about the FFB since I don't know how it really should feel like.

Edit2: After a small think, I remembered that I would like to know how the scoops really work. To me having the knee at 70 makes no sense at all for my G27.

Cholton82
20-08-2015, 17:28
I use the web app with Jack Spades settings , In fact it's on my phone so all I do is save the setting ONCE in the car setup screen which saves for all locations , I think it takes me about 90 seconds to input the values and that's it .
Now I'm a busy guy but I can spare an extra 90 seconds to make sure I'm getting the best out of my setup each time I try a new car .
T300 and the FFB is awesome !

lancashirelad
20-08-2015, 18:20
I use the web app with Jack Spades settings , In fact it's on my phone so all I do is save the setting ONCE in the car setup screen which saves for all locations , I think it takes me about 90 seconds to input the values and that's it .
Now I'm a busy guy but I can spare an extra 90 seconds to make sure I'm getting the best out of my setup each time I try a new car .
T300 and the FFB is awesome !

Can I ask do you use FFB at 100%? because Jack spades insists it should be set at that for all wheels and I have t300rs same as you but I think it's way to high for that wheel.

Brent G
20-08-2015, 18:27
Can I ask do you use FFB at 100%? because Jack spades insists it should be set at that for all wheels and I have t300rs same as you but I think it's way to high for that wheel.

I do mate, I couple it with a Tyre force of 50 and adjust to taste with master and sop scales. It seems though that what constitutes good FFB differs greatly and is a purely personal thing.

Cholton82
20-08-2015, 18:43
Yes I use 100% FFB and tyre force around 75 . I find that works nicely for me ��

lancashirelad
20-08-2015, 19:05
I do mate, I couple it with a Tyre force of 50 and adjust to taste with master and sop scales. It seems though that what constitutes good FFB differs greatly and is a purely personal thing.

It's not so much the feedback it's the stress on the wheel I'm worried about. Heard a lot of horror stories about the wheels not lasting long, and with it at 100% it doesn't feel like it's doing my wheel any good. I'm running it at 76% and tyre force at 98 and feels ok but still tweaking.

Cholton82
20-08-2015, 19:12
It's not so much the feedback it's the stress on the wheel I'm worried about. Heard a lot of horror stories about the wheels not lasting long, and with it at 100% it doesn't feel like it's doing my wheel any good. I'm running it at 76% and tyre force at 98 and feels ok but still tweaking.

Try dropping the tyre force and upping the FFB .

Fight-Test
20-08-2015, 19:20
Yes I use 100% FFB and tyre force around 75 . I find that works nicely for me ��

Ran two 50 lappers at sonoma short(very busy track for the wheel) last night with t300 66% settings and exactly what you posted on the t300. No fade, no issues and was plenty fast.

ONT
20-08-2015, 21:08
It's not so much the feedback it's the stress on the wheel I'm worried about. Heard a lot of horror stories about the wheels not lasting long, and with it at 100% it doesn't feel like it's doing my wheel any good. I'm running it at 76% and tyre force at 98 and feels ok but still tweaking.


The consensus of most all that was deeeeeeep in to FFB tweaking during the WMD dev period was to set FFB to 100% and adjust

TireForce up to desired strength without clipping in the telemetry screen :cool:



You don't want a CUT OFF sine curve on top or bottom like the second wave picture ( 98 TireForce sounds impossible without clipping, my guess is somewhere in the 20-60 range depending on car) .

215779



FFB sine curve is in upper left on telemetry screen

215781

aerchak
21-08-2015, 02:24
Good FFB was my fox body with steeda lowering springs.

I promise. The wheel moved around a lot.

hitmanvega
21-08-2015, 07:23
I keep ffb at 100. Adjust tire force if my wheel feels to heavy. Normally run tire force at 40 , but for the BMW M1 pro car I had to turn it way down to 25...

AB_Attack
21-08-2015, 08:13
Well, I agree with OP. All these settings, I don't wanne understand and I don't wanne learn them.. Not interested at all. Just want to race. The game doesn't explain anything, goes for tuning the car aswell. Most people playing this game are gamers, seriously, WHO understands these settings without going on a forum or google. I refuse to read pages long threads on FFB and download Jack Payne settings or whatever.. I do have a life and limited time to play.

But at OP, I have to dissagree what concerns the default FFB. I don't yet have patch 3.0 so can't compare. But I have the default setup and lower tire force to 50 and FFB strenght to 85 or something. And I think the FFB is quite good. On most cars.. Certainly if you compare with Forza for example.
I fully understand the sentiment. However as far as I can remember, simracing has always been like this to a certain extent. It wouldn't be simracing without settings and with settings come complexity. And then add hardware, mods and skins to that. So, while I as well at times feel frustration about complexity I also ask myself "well, do I want have the right experience or don't I?" and I usually do and so I just have to invest some time to understand stuff.

jgaganas
21-08-2015, 10:21
Just upgraded to a new PC and did a complete fresh pcars install and must say, the default 3.0 FFB settings (classic-profile) are bloody fantastic... compared with everything else i've ever driven "out of the box".

Giom
21-08-2015, 12:41
Once I've learned to properly set-up my G27, it turned in to the best racing sim I've ever played. You have to scratch around a little to get good advice for your wheel. Then play around with those settings - or just leave them as they are, it's pretty good. Sorry I can't speak for other wheels out there.

Human_bean
21-08-2015, 13:30
Just upgraded to a new PC and did a complete fresh pcars install and must say, the default 3.0 FFB settings (classic-profile) are bloody fantastic... compared with everything else i've ever driven "out of the box".

Really i tried the default classic settings on the sauber c9 and it felt too weak. What wheel are you using?

jgaganas
21-08-2015, 14:36
Really i tried the default classic settings on the sauber c9 and it felt too weak. What wheel are you using?

CSW v1/Firmware 222... but i'm gonna try the C9 later on (today is my first day with new rig & v3.0, so i mainly took the RUFs out for a spin).


Update:

Just did two 10 lappers at Brno with the C9 and for comparison with the Speed 8. The saubers steering/tire-force is a bit on the weaker side (compared to Speed 8), but when wheight shifts and above 200kph i really had to grab my wheel.

Overall road-feel, slippin and sliding, wheight transfers, bumps/curbs felt great with both of them (better than ever)... i used to run Jack Spades tweaks before 3.0 for improved road-feel, but for now, i'm sticking to new classic-defaults.

Doctor Doom
21-08-2015, 15:06
They really have dialed in the FFB settings for the G27 with 3.0 release. This is easily the best racing Sim I have ever played. Sometimes the graphics seem photo realistic on certain tracks. I get mid 60's in the rain on ultra everything and 2x MSAA @ 1080p.