PDA

View Full Version : "SOP"question



gbm
19-08-2015, 16:21
Ok so my limited understanding of FFB is that SOP stands for Seat of the Pants, correct?

In that regard, it means the various forces that you would experience from a body perspective in the seat, yes?

So how does that sensation get expressed in a FFB steering wheel?

amazed
19-08-2015, 17:38
Try it, and see!

Mahjik
19-08-2015, 18:06
It mainly enhances the effects of things like hitting curbs and twisting the wheel a bit from what the rear end of the car is doing. It can act against/counter some of the steering rack based forces so you have to not over do setting it.

gbm
19-08-2015, 19:49
It mainly enhances the effects of things like hitting curbs and twisting the wheel a bit from what the rear end of the car is doing. It can act against/counter some of the steering rack based forces so you have to not over do setting it.

hmmmm, interesting. Thanks for the insight.

Mahjik
19-08-2015, 19:57
FWIW, I like using a little bit of this on my G25. When I'm at my personal computer, I'll share the SoP settings I'm using.

Schnizz58
19-08-2015, 20:22
So how does that sensation get expressed in a FFB steering wheel?
Spindle forces are forces on the front end of the car, SoP forces are on the rear. So for example, if you were coming out of a right-hand curve, you'd feel the FFB pushing the wheel back to the left. If then your rear end started to step out when you get back on the throttle (oversteer) you'd feel the wheel go lighter.

Mahjik
20-08-2015, 00:44
Here's what I'm using:



<value SoPScale="0.15" />

<value SoPLateral="0.2" />
<value SoPDifferential="0.5" />
<value SoPLoPass="0.0" />


Sorry, I can't remember if the "GUI Menu" values are the same or 10x these numbers.

Schnizz58
20-08-2015, 15:39
Sorry, I can't remember if the "GUI Menu" values are the same or 10x these numbers.
100x actually but that should be pretty obvious once they look at the menu.

Brent G
20-08-2015, 18:19
I think it was Jack Spade that said (sorry if I'm wrong Jack) SOP scale should be equal to the Spindle Master scale, why is that?

Schnizz58
20-08-2015, 18:22
I think it was Jack Spade that said (sorry if I'm wrong Jack) SOP scale should be equal to the Spindle Master scale, why is that?
So that forces from the rear are balanced with forces from the front.

Mahjik
20-08-2015, 18:22
I think it was Jack Spade that said (sorry if I'm wrong Jack) SOP scale should be equal to the Spindle Master scale, why is that?

I have a lot of respect for Jack and what he is done, but I don't like his tweak files for my G25 and I don't necessarily agree with his suggestions. It's best to ask him directly in his thread but personally, I think some of his SoP settings are way over the top. They might work fine for a Fanatec wheel since that's what he used, but they don't give me anything that I'm used to from my own personal race car.

Brent G
21-08-2015, 16:03
So that forces from the rear are balanced with forces from the front.

So just purely for balance then? Just wondered if it was perhaps more than that. Cheers Schnizz.

Brent G
21-08-2015, 16:07
I have a lot of respect for Jack and what he is done, but I don't like his tweak files for my G25 and I don't necessarily agree with his suggestions. It's best to ask him directly in his thread but personally, I think some of his SoP settings are way over the top. They might work fine for a Fanatec wheel since that's what he used, but they don't give me anything that I'm used to from my own personal race car.

To be honest I dumb them down quite considerably but always match Sop scale with Spindle master scale. Maybe I'll try reducing the Sop a tad, oversteer can at times be rather 'snappy' if you get my meaning.

Schnizz58
21-08-2015, 16:15
So just purely for balance then? Just wondered if it was perhaps more than that. Cheers Schnizz.
Jack will correct me if I'm wrong I hope but my understanding of what he has done is that he tries to balance the various force components to emphasize certain effects. There are 6 force components in the model: Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz in the front and SoP Lateral & SoP Diff in the rear. So imagine that these forces are audio inputs to a mixer. Jack's settings adjust the relative levels of each of the inputs. The different sets of tweaker files are analogous to different mixes, one emphasizing the bass, another brings out the vocals more, etc.

Gr8_Lakes
13-05-2016, 08:10
Spindle forces are forces on the front end of the car, SoP forces are on the rear. So for example, if you were coming out of a right-hand curve, you'd feel the FFB pushing the wheel back to the left. If then your rear end started to step out when you get back on the throttle (oversteer) you'd feel the wheel go lighter.

If this is accurate, which I have no reason to believe otherwise... It's one of the most direct, simple, and informative answers I've ever come across regarding FFB. If everyone could keep it this simple, without opinions, FFB would be much easier to figure out for NEWBs. Thank you.