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redrick
23-08-2015, 22:20
Could someone who knows briefly explain what "Steering Assistance" and "Braking Assistance" do, and what is the difference between them and "Driving Assists"- i.e. ABS, "Stability Control", and TC? (Options/Options and Help/Gameplay.)

I know there is nothing better than experimentation, but it is much more effective if one knows exactly what an adjustment is intended to do before trying to measure its effect.

Also, I am most interested in what adjustments affect the way the controller (or wheel) reacts to my input, and which adjustments affect the way the car reacts to the signals it gets from the controller.

xXDoc187Xx
23-08-2015, 22:51
Could someone who knows briefly explain what "Steering Assistance" and "Braking Assistance" do, and what is the difference between them and "Driving Assists"- i.e. ABS, "Stability Control", and TC? (Options/Options and Help/Gameplay.)

I know there is nothing better than experimentation, but it is much more effective if one knows exactly what an adjustment is intended to do before trying to measure its effect.

Also, I am most interested in what adjustments affect the way the controller (or wheel) reacts to my input, and which adjustments affect the way the car reacts to the signals it gets from the controller.

Steering/Braking Assistance are aids done by the game to correct any mistake you might do i.e if you oversteer in a turn and your cars rare steps out the game will help/take over with counter steer to straighten up your car. None of these will help get better. Now ABS /TC/stability Control are mechanical assist that street legal cars have , abs prevent/help with heavy braking so wheels don't lock up. TC helps reduce wheel spin on launch, corner existing, rain ect. Stability Control helps with your car sliding all over the track.
Not the best explanation but.... Google could of helped.

redrick
23-08-2015, 23:51
Unfortunately TC may be legal on the street but not in most racing. Illegal in F1, all 4 classes at Le Mans this year.

Mahjik
25-08-2015, 13:11
Unfortunately TC may be legal on the street but not in most racing. Illegal in F1, all 4 classes at Le Mans this year.

If you us the option for "REAL", you'll get what that specific model of car does or did have in real life.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
25-08-2015, 13:37
Unfortunately TC may be legal on the street but not in most racing. Illegal in F1, all 4 classes at Le Mans this year.It's legal in GT3 for example, and to my understanding at least it's also legal in Le Mans as well in the LMP1 and LMP2 classes. Krohn Racing's LMP2 entry specifically ran into electronic problems that caused them to lose their traction control in this year's race, which already says that normally they do run with traction control. Looking at the LMP2 and GTE Sporting Regulations for 2015, both have the following line: "A traction control system operating exclusively on the engine, is authorised." Also Joest Racing's website has this on the R18 e-tron quattro: "Drive / transmission: Rear wheel drive, traction control (ASR), four-wheel drive e-tron quattro from 120 km/h"

blankfile
25-08-2015, 13:42
Unfortunately TC may be legal on the street but not in most racing. Illegal in F1, all 4 classes at Le Mans this year.

ironically all 4 classes at le mans allow traction control ;)

redrick
25-08-2015, 20:54
If you us the option for "REAL", you'll get what that specific model of car does or did have in real life.

Racing regs seldom conform to "real life" capabilities of a street car. For Le Mans I relied on the race commentary. Could have been wrong or simplified for one of the classes. Formula One is a definite ban.

Re sports car racing there are different associations popping up like weeds, sometimes with only one race, or even part of a race. You spend a fortune on a car it needs to have capabilities which may need to be removed or disabled, just like in the unreal world of online racing, where in my experience TC and all other aids except ABS are usually banned. I like TC. I always had it on while learning GT6 until I started to do online and found my cars banned from most of the race rooms. If you look at the bragging videos on YouTube the driver usually feels obligated to show the screen where where all the assists are turned off.

At some point you're probably going to have to learn to drive without it and there are advantages to controlling it yourself.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
25-08-2015, 20:59
Racing regs seldom conform to "real life" capabilities of a street car. For Le Mans I relied on the race commentary. Could have been wrong or simplified for one of the classes.Well the sporting regulations for the classes say they're allowed, as do several articles about the race, as do the car specs released by the manufacturers, so I'll have to assume the commentary was simply wrong in this case.

Psychomatrix
25-08-2015, 21:37
All lmp cars have tractioncontrol even in 2015. You can see that very easy when you look how the accelerate outside corners. Specially the diesel lmp cars have immense torque. Driving in the rain and night without tractioncontrol with these cars are no fun. What I know is that since tge early 2000's tractioncontrol is allowed.

thegt500
25-08-2015, 22:55
At some point you're probably going to have to learn to drive without it and there are advantages to controlling it yourself.

My feelings and experience exactly. On GT6 I used ABS and TC on 1 once I had got some practice in and got a 'feel' for the cars I needed it on (mostly powerful RWD cars). When I got pCARS, I was determined to start with only the real driver aid settings so as not to fall into a false sense of security like it was in GT. I had bought a T300RS wheel just before pCARS was released in readiness for it so felt I was ready to cut the apron strings and give it a go 'unaided' so to speak.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being elitist, I'm not a particularly great driver, I've never got a time posted on any of the community events, and probably never will. I just wanted to try and see if the hype surrounding the physics of the game were close to real life as I've driven some pretty quick cars of all drive types IRL, and guess what, for the most part pCARS nails it. Sure, there are still some cars that don't quite equate to their real life counterparts, but geeze, the majority of them feel close.
I've only ever played consoles, and 99.9% of the games I play are driving/racing ones. The only other 'serious' sim type game I really enjoyed was GT6 on PS3 and I can honestly say, console/hardware limitations aside, pCARS is more intuitive and nuanced in the car handling and feedback by a big margin.
Some may say, yeah, sure pCARS is on newer, faster hardware and any comparison to a game on 6~7 year old tech will be worse. But seeing as GT6 was supposed to be the 'real driving simulator' I think my comparison stands ! As a low tech experiment into comparing the two games, I used the Bentley Speed 8 on LeSarthe in both GT6 and pCARS. Each game was set up on default settings and no driver aids and using racing hard tyres. In GT6 I was hopeless, spinning out even at the first corner and the run down Mulsanne was a bumpy, bucking bronco trip. The pCARS run was smoother, faster and more importantly, had tons of feel and excellent feedback so there was little need for any driver aids (either car specific, or game help based) as you could actually feel what the car was doing, and react to it.
I find this on all the cars (except the evil that is the Ford MkIV) and find myself just hotlapping for the hell of it, getting a better feel for the cars and just generally having fun.

redrick
26-08-2015, 00:05
I'll have to assume the commentary was simply wrong in this case.

Yes, that's all you can do. All I can say in general is that TC is not allowed in Formula One (you can look that up- whatever subjective observation may seem. Those drivers are just good) and I've heard conflicting information re sports cars. I'll take your word for it that TC was allowed at Le Mans at least since 2015.

All this doesn't really help my original intention of the thread's first post. I understand the flurry of defense of driver aids like TC. I come from GT5 and GT6 and loved driving aids until I reached a level where I realized that all the better drivers didn't use them and looked down on drivers who did. (Agreed- to heck with them, but it made me feel I was giving myself an unfair advantage, and most online rooms didn't allow them.) So I learned to drive without them. Not hard as you think and my lap times actually got faster.

It is difficult for me as I am elderly and disabled and cannot use a wheel. (Cannot drive in the "real world" either!). Hence my interest if anyone with definite technical knowledge can tell me at what point (the controller's interpretation of the user or the car's interpretation of the controller) Steering Assistance and Braking Assistance act, and what's the difference between them and "Driver Aids". I find it intriguing that the Driver Aids can all be turned off at a stroke ("I don't use Driver Aids") while the "assistance" is separate.

I had great hopes for controller configuration but it is very difficult as the large space reserved for the explanation of what the various adjustments do is blank, awaiting the next patch, no doubt.

(No need to point me to controller configuration posts- I've found many and like many other things they are...conflicting.)

redrick
26-08-2015, 00:24
My feelings and experience exactly.

My feelings and experience exactly. Also love the Race Weekends and far more realistic tuning on PC2 over GT6. But GT6 was great in it's way and soon there will be GT7 to contend with. I only hope the developers of both are not too arrogant to learn from each other.


....only the real driver aid settings

Again I'd be careful about this, especially with street available sports cars and racing sports cars. What the manufacturers put on the car is not always compatible with race rules or how a team mods the car, which would be impossible for PC or anyone else to keep up with.

Schnizz58
26-08-2015, 00:41
My recommendation is to learn to drive without them so that you're not dependent upon them. However if they're allowed, then they can be helpful in some situations.

gotdirt410sprintcar
26-08-2015, 01:04
AID settings are rookie settings they just slow you down ABS yes TC if you want the rest who cares off off off

Mahjik
26-08-2015, 01:42
I'll take your word for it that TC was allowed at Le Mans at least since 2015.

Just for completeness, here is a blurb from the 2015 LMGTE Official Regulations:

A traction control system operating exclusively on the engine
is authorised.

Are only permitted:
.....
Traction control that operates solely through the engine
control unit (ECU). Wheel speed sensors are permitted;

I couldn't quickly find the technical specs for the Blancpain GT series which is close to what we have, but they are are similar from that aspect.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
26-08-2015, 05:51
I couldn't quickly find the technical specs for the Blancpain GT series which is close to what we have, but they are are similar from that aspect.Blancpain runs GT3 regs so allows TC and ABS.

redrick
26-08-2015, 21:23
Hi Mahjik,
If you've got Driving Assists set to "Real", do you know of a good way to test whether "Stability Control" is on? (TC is easy to test for, and I assume everything has ABS.)
Thanks,-Rick

Bealdor
26-08-2015, 21:28
Hi Mahjik,
If you've got Driving Assists set to "Real", do you know of a good way to test whether "Stability Control" is on? (TC is easy to test for, and I assume everything has ABS.)
Thanks,-Rick

Switch to an external view and check the symbols in the bottom right. If an assist symbol is shown, it's active.

Angst1974
26-08-2015, 22:50
Switch to an external view and check the symbols in the bottom right. If an assist symbol is shown, it's active.

Honestly it should be documented ( in game or in the manual )

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
27-08-2015, 03:57
You can check on http://projectcarssetups.eu, we have listed the realistic aids for each car in the data portions. Just click the small "i" within a circle next to the name of the car to open up the info view.