PDA

View Full Version : Road cars Ruf



cunningham85
24-08-2015, 21:54
Ok I joined an invitational track car 3 race event and went the RUF theres is the SLS and McLaren F1 etc. 1st race is Zolder and OMG its like driving with no tyres at all the car just wants to spin. This is my 4th season and I may just be used to GT3 cars but are they really this difficult? Sitting at 70 % AI should I decrease only qualified 9th and that was a battle in itself.

senn
24-08-2015, 22:30
Yes they will be harder, for a few reasons. GT3 cars have massive tyres (slicks) and wings and suspension set up for racing. Road cars have skinnier tyres, usually no downforce and street suspension. The RUF's (especially the turbo one...can't remember what model it is, the one that doesn't look like a 911...CTR i think) is VERY snappy coming on boost, and will require some finesse to drive. I don't know what controller you are using or if you are using assists like ABS/STM/TCS. Also remember to get some heat into the tyres. Brake earlier and get used to the way the car handles, gentle on the inputs and you'll be right. The RGT8 (911 looking RUF) is a bit easier as it is N/A and has a nice linear powerband. Also remember the RGT8 has a rear engine, so you need to brake in a straight line, enter corners slower, and accelerate more, if you brake while cornering, it will snap around on you.

cunningham85
25-08-2015, 04:43
Im using T100 wheel. Its the 2012 RUF RGT-8 and im using soft track tyres. I maybe should have went the Audi R8 with the Quattro system. All im using is ABS

nhitrac
25-08-2015, 05:53
They both (R8 and RUF) drive like theyre on ice compared to their GT siblings.

Apparently theyre not all floaty in real life though according to some forum members who have driven the R8.

Sasquatch
25-08-2015, 05:54
Use THIS set up. (http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/176886070)

The RGT8 is kind of weird, but I used that set up for a 20% race at the Bathurst 25H. Found it a lot more fun, and a lot more throwable.

Happy racin'. :)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
25-08-2015, 06:33
They both (R8 and RUF) drive like theyre on ice compared to their GT siblings.

Apparently theyre not all floaty in real life though according to some forum members who have driven the R8.People tend to have a very skewed view of how road cars behave in sims. IRL the feel of the forces and speed involved is so much clearer than it is in games and the disparity gets bigger the lower down you go in the grip scale, race cars tend to feel closer to what people expect in sims, but road cars and vintage cars tend to feel overly slippy even when they're right on the money. Pulling as hard of a turn as you can in a normal daily runabout still feels like you're cornering hard in real life, even when you're not even hitting 1 G at any point. In-game however even the lowest grip All Weather tyres replicate something close to real life Pirelli P Zero or Michelin Pilot Sport tyres, which are massively grippy sports tyres, some of the best in the world, and can easily pull lateral Gs in the 1.1-1.2 G region, 20-30% more lateral Gs than most people ever experience IRL without using really high end sports cars on supremely good tyres. But since you're not feeling the forces of acceleration with your body, and often aren't using a realistic field of view combined with a sufficiently large screen, the feeling of speed and what you're actually doing really suffers.

I'm personally of the opinion that the lack of forces felt combined with the comparatively lacking visual impact when compared to racing cars which most are used to in games is leading people astray, making them think the cars are underperforming even while they're actually performing as well or even better than real life cars. This is something that's really quite unavoidable, without a full motion rig that leans massively, large screens with realistic FOV to give a proper sense of scale, etc. During development I spent hours (and hours and hours and hours) testing all the different tyres on skid pans and driving laps with different tyres, and my particular interest was in the street tyres. We're very close in the grip levels to real road car tyres, a little bit high on the lateral grip and possibly a bit more than that on the longitudinal (though new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres have massively improved longitudinal traction IRL as well, so might be comparing to old data), definitely not below. I've watched countless of track day laps done by people (not racing drivers, just to get a comparison to how "normal people" drive) and IRL they're rarely even approaching the limits of their cars, or conversely blowing straight through those limits without staying on the edge at all. I looked at several laps around Nords done in something like and SLS AMG by "normal people", and it takes serious consideration to drive around that slow when you're used to driving at normal race pace. No wonder the car feels more stable IRL real life, when the car is barely being pushed.

That said the street cars aren't perfect. I don't like the default setups on most of them, I think they work insanely better with the OEM style setups I've tried to come up with for them, and the grip levels are still a bit too high overall.

The track day semi-slick tyre is also very different from the others, it's not designed for road use and is VERY slippery when cold. Even when it's warmed up it seems to have more of a hybrid bias/radial design to it, and seems more comfortable at higher slip angles than the pure road tyres, so driving it feels more slippery because you're generating maximum grip at a higher slip angle, even though the actual amount of grip is quite high.

EDIT: If you think the current street car tyres are too slippery, just thank your lucky stars we don't have any 1960s-1970s cars on vintage road tyres yet. I've seen test data measured back then, and those poor tyres could barely manage 0.65 Gs when going around a skid pan, and the best of them peaked at around 0.8 Gs in corners. We're talking nearly 40-50% less grip than the All Weather tyres in pCARS, in the dry. And those tyres were horrible in the wet as well compared to what we have today. Fun fact: Measured in pure Gs, these days great winter tyres on a good AWD car can get almost as much grip on (very cold) snow as cars got on dry tarmac in the 60s-70s...

Bealdor
25-08-2015, 06:53
The Jussinator strikes again!

nhitrac
25-08-2015, 07:04
That's an informative post. Thanks for the effort and explanation!

Without much trackday experience in RL and no experience whatsoever with the R8 or RUF equivalent, my comparisons are only to those video reviews I've seen online and of course comments by those who've claimed they've driven them in real life.

nhitrac
25-08-2015, 07:04
That's an informative post. Thanks for the effort and explanation!

Without much trackday experience in RL and no experience whatsoever with the R8 or RUF equivalent, my comparisons are only to those video reviews I've seen online and of course comments by those who've claimed they've driven them in real life.