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Plato99
25-08-2015, 08:42
ok, last night I settled down for an evening on PCars to try and "find the lost love".
Season 7 in European LMP2. Car handles like crap so desperate to quit the season, it's no fun. Ahhh I can't do that can I? So I thought I'd stick with it, give it a tune, got it running quite sweetly.

Round 1 - Catalunya
Race 1 - no sound apart from AI engines and my own gearshift. Rebooted XBox to try and cure.
Same as before. No option but to quit.
Race 2 - no sound at all apart from "idiot boy" telling me to "go go go". Quit.

Round 2 - Hockenheim (I think).
Race 1 - rains on the penultimate lap, dropping me from 1st to last with zero grip. Literally zero grip, like someone had removed the tyres. Quit.
Race 2 - can't be bothered. Quit.

Please let me go back to plan A and quit season. Ahhhh, forgot, can't do that. Got to enter every race and retire. That's well thought out.

Start a new season in Class B open wheelers.
First race, Hockenheim. Punted repeatedly by a field full of kamikaze pilots. Quit. This is crap.

Let's try online multiplayer instead. Wow, got in a lobby within seconds, there's a first.
Cars jumping all over the track (not my lag issue, I'm on a 40Mbit connection). One even came past driving upside down on its roof. Excellent.

Switched off, played Battlefield 4 instead. It worked.

Sorry guys, but this whole PCars thing is a disaster. I used to champion this game, loved it, but now I can't enjoy an evening of racing without it being ruined by poor programming and poor implementation.
You've released a donkey. You've let us and most crucially, yourselves down.

bobbylion
25-08-2015, 08:49
Fair enough, you do just sound defeated mate, by which i mean if your still in early stages of play like me you'd most likely forgive more..... I've only put in about 40 hours of this game as i am not big on free time, so whenever i can grab an hour or two on it its great.

Last night i started a race with no engine sound so quit and hit restart race and sound was back that time.

I understand why people are fed up but for me it is still giving me a good time, i never do online MP though and if i fire it up and i'm not in the mood i put on another game or do something else... worst thing to do is to try to carry on.

I do worry i'm going to get to a point where i've played it so much it really annoys me, but by that time i'd just stop playing it so much....

Im Sorry
25-08-2015, 09:29
ok, last night I settled down for an evening on PCars to try and "find the lost love".
Season 7 in European LMP2. Car handles like crap so desperate to quit the season, it's no fun. Ahhh I can't do that can I? So I thought I'd stick with it, give it a tune, got it running quite sweetly.

Round 1 - Catalunya
Race 1 - no sound apart from AI engines and my own gearshift. Rebooted XBox to try and cure.
Same as before. No option but to quit.
Race 2 - no sound at all apart from "idiot boy" telling me to "go go go". Quit.

Round 2 - Hockenheim (I think).
Race 1 - rains on the penultimate lap, dropping me from 1st to last with zero grip. Literally zero grip, like someone had removed the tyres. Quit.
Race 2 - can't be bothered. Quit.

Please let me go back to plan A and quit season. Ahhhh, forgot, can't do that. Got to enter every race and retire. That's well thought out.

Start a new season in Class B open wheelers.
First race, Hockenheim. Punted repeatedly by a field full of kamikaze pilots. Quit. This is crap.

Let's try online multiplayer instead. Wow, got in a lobby within seconds, there's a first.
Cars jumping all over the track (not my lag issue, I'm on a 40Mbit connection). One even came past driving upside down on its roof. Excellent.

Switched off, played Battlefield 4 instead. It worked.

Sorry guys, but this whole PCars thing is a disaster. I used to champion this game, loved it, but now I can't enjoy an evening of racing without it being ruined by poor programming and poor implementation.
You've released a donkey. You've let us and most crucially, yourselves down.

It's sure looking that way.
A shame that a game promises so much delivered so little a lot of the time.
When it works nothing can beat it! But that is the major issue!

It doesn't work right nearly enough to make you want to stick with it.
And the feedback lately has been non existent!

BMWE87
25-08-2015, 09:50
It's sure looking that way.
A shame that a game promises so much delivered so little a lot of the time.
When it works nothing can beat it! But that is the major issue!

It doesn't work right nearly enough to make you want to stick with it.
And the feedback lately has been non existent!

WHEN it works it's a good game but it's nothing more. I find my self coming on here more often to check that the game is okay to play and there are no active issues before even playing the game. Sad state of affairs.

I wouldn't say "NOTHING CAN BEAT IT".

Im Sorry
25-08-2015, 09:55
WHEN it works it's a good game but it's nothing more. I find my self coming on here more often to check that the game is okay to play and there are no active issues before even playing the game. Sad state of affairs.

I wouldn't say "NOTHING CAN BEAT IT".

What I really should have said is no racing game on Xbox1 can beat it!

derekthetree
25-08-2015, 09:58
I agree, the "random" weather in single player really kills it as you don't know whether to pit or not. Patch 3.0 meant to be fixing the differential in AI speeds with tyre/weather combos, but no sign of it so far.

To be fair, I've hosted a few multiplayer races recently which have been fun but not enough of my old Forza mates are racing now. Posted elsewhere about poor options in hosting races....

BMWE87
25-08-2015, 10:08
What I really should have said is no racing game on Xbox1 can beat it!

Depends on your opinion and what you want from a game. What you've said is opinion. It's not a fact.

In terms of pick up and play there are a few games that can beat it. Rivals, FM5, FH2 to name a few. In terms of a TOTAL SIM game on Xbox One (so far) then yes nothing can beat it because there is nothing else out in that field yet on Xbox One. That's what you should say.

AC will be a good competitor when it releases next year and FM6 SHOULD be good when it releases. Once FM6 does release, I have a feeling that PCars will be long forgotten, or it'll be remembered for the reasons that made it bad. I can't see it being around (in the console world anyway) for as long as NFS or FM for example, given the way it released and how it plays to this day after all of the patches.

SMS/PCars has left a sour taste in MANY gamers mouths. I wonder how the original investors/crowdfunders are feeling, seeing the game in it's condition and what was promised (based on what I've read on FM.net (with members that have access to WMD) and posts copied from WMD and pasted on here). I could be wrong in this aspect however.

Plato99
25-08-2015, 10:10
As a bugged out pile of unplayable horsesh*t nothing can beat it at this moment in time.

Bealdor
25-08-2015, 10:33
Give it a rest please Plato.

I totally understand your frustration, especially the delayed release of the newest patch.
But constantly posting one liners how s**t this game is in your opinion does help noone.

BMWE87
25-08-2015, 10:47
Give it a rest please Plato.

I totally understand your frustration, especially the delayed release of the newest patch.
But constantly posting one liners how s**t this game is in your opinion does help noone.

Where do you draw the line between opinion and fact? Without trying to cause trouble the game is a massive let down and is riddled with bugs. You'll either have a heavy investment in SMS/Pcars which leads you to look PAST the issues because YOU WANT the game to succeed to get a return OR you see the game for black and white and see that there are issues present and admit that it is riddled with bugs. I wouldn't go as far to say it is shit but the game is okay WHEN IT WORKS. Which sadly majority of the time it does not.

His opinion:
As a bugged out pile of unplayable horsesh*t nothing can beat it at this moment in time.

But I would say this is indeed a fact:
Sorry guys, but this whole PCars thing is a disaster. I used to champion this game, loved it, but now I can't enjoy an evening of racing without it being ruined by poor programming and poor implementation.
You've released a donkey. You've let us and most crucially, yourselves down.

Plato99
25-08-2015, 11:01
Infraction received. Thanks forum dude.
Where can I send an infraction to the devs for selling me a game which I wasted another entire evening trying to race on? A game by its very nature should allow me to race, with sound, without upside down cars overtaking me, without 2 second freezes in multiplayer, without being rear ended constantly by badly implemented blind AI drivers? Please let me know as I'd love to be able to put all of this in writing to the appropriate person who can fix it.
Run your forum like Turn 10 by all means, handing out infractions with a rod of iron for people voicing an opinion on the facts laid before them. Apologies for the s-word in my last post, but I tend to say what I see before me. It's hard keep the Queens English when one hath just wasted four hours of ones life trying to do something for enjoyment that ended in a total waste of ones time.

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 11:20
I agree with the OP, I so wanted this to be THE GAME I backed it for the first couple of months even defended it but you have to draw a line and say enough is enough .

The game truly is ridden with bugs but its not only these its the short falls as well , the UI is all over the place the career is lame even the car physics are not consistent the GT3s imho drive great the GT5s however and many of the others the physics are all over the place , I set my controller up on GT3s then had to mess about with the settings all over again just to be able to steer the GT5s (just) the difficulty is all over the place regarding the AI in any given car or track they vary so much its ridiculous.

You seriously could go on and on listing the problems with this game , yes the bits they got right are good but in truth we're taking about the physics on a hand full of cars .

Even MP is a mare what with continuous freezing / crashes / not being able to join lobbies im not sure there is one section of this game that plays out faultlessly .

I'll admit I haven't played it for some time now as I personally just find it a mess I was waiting for patch 3.0 to land but for one that now leaves a sour taste and two I really can't see that making much difference to the overall game experience in general.

Will I personally buy P2 on release , answer not a chance and im not a little boy throwing his toys out im a grown bloke who's simple fed up with developer's churning out poorly executed products expecting the buyer to play suck it and see and that is exactly what SMS have done here and there not alone in this practice, its about time the consumer started talking with there wallet.

Bealdor
25-08-2015, 11:23
Run your forum like Turn 10 by all means, handing out infractions with a rod of iron for people voicing an opinion on the facts laid before them.

Voicing your opinion is totally fine.
Being frustrated about the bugs/issues you experience is totally fine.

Posting sarcastic (and partially insulting) comments five times a day is totally useless and even counterproductive.

VR-Mustard
25-08-2015, 11:26
Bealdor... making yet more friends i see.

igornoel
25-08-2015, 11:27
the game's release was delayed six months after release is broken and three months still broken exaggerated and regrettable one as good game with numerous innovations taking so long to be fixed, leaving his ultra mega fans angry and disgusted. I am one haaaaaaaaa unburdened.

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 11:29
Bealdor... making yet more friends i see.

The guy is just doing what he is supposed to do, seriously do you not think he's just as peeved as the rest of us .

bluesky0870
25-08-2015, 11:30
Voicing your opinion is totally fine.
Being frustrated about the bugs/issues you experience is totally fine.

Posting sarcastic (and partially insulting) comments five times a day is totally useless and even counterproductive.

Sorry, I have to be sarcastic right now, maybe you'll hand out an infraction to me too...

To be counterproductive means that another one has to be productive... I can't actually see no one.

VR-Mustard
25-08-2015, 11:30
Every single community/website i know of are in the same boat.. Frightened to voice a opinion on here because of these mods. This game is broken.. Very broken and because of this not one website out there can run any serious events or leagues.

BMWE87
25-08-2015, 11:35
I agree with the OP, I so wanted this to be THE GAME I backed it for the first couple of months even defended it but you have to draw a line and say enough is enough .

The game truly is ridden with bugs but its not only these its the short falls as well , the UI is all over the place the career is lame even the car physics are not consistent the GT3s imho drive great the GT5s however and many of the others the physics are all over the place , I set my controller up on GT3s then had to mess about with the settings all over again just to be able to steer the GT5s (just) the difficulty is all over the place regarding the AI in any given car or track they vary so much its ridiculous.

You seriously could go on and on listing the problems with this game , yes the bits they got right are good but in truth we're taking about the physics on a hand full of cars .

Even MP is a mare what with continuous freezing / crashes / not being able to join lobbies im not sure there is one section of this game that plays out faultlessly .

I'll admit I haven't played it for some time now as I personally just find it a mess I was waiting for patch 3.0 to land but for one that now leaves a sour taste and two I really can't see that making much difference to the overall game experience in general.

Will I personally buy P2 on release , answer not a chance and im not a little boy throwing his toys out im a grown bloke who's simple fed up with developer's churning out poorly executed products expecting the buyer to play suck it and see and that is exactly what SMS have done here and there not alone in this practice, its about time the consumer started talking with there wallet.

This. More consumers needs to stand up to companies and start talking with their wallet. Don't pre-order and don't buy on day one. SMS had all the talk at the beginning and now look, their credibility is shot IMO. Everyone that bought this on day one ended up being Alpha/Beta testers. It's a massive letdown and riddled with problems MONTHS down the line. Admin/Mods/Ian has shut people up by banning them if they speak out against the company and say the simple truth of the condition of the game! Ian/Devs were giving infractions to people left, right and center when they voiced their opinion about the game and said the simple condition of it. They didn't link what the gamers had to say. Which is unfair in my opinion. "I don't like what you have to say, so you can get banned from my forum - waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh" sort of thing, throwing your toys out the pram.

If I get banned. This will be the reason/comment why and I can't be the only one thinking this?!


The guy is just doing what he is supposed to do, seriously do you not think he's just as peeved as the rest of us .

How do you know he is? He might not be for all you or I know. Looks like he plays on PC so I doubt he has the problems that we do. I think he has some form of investment in the game, so obviously he isn't going to bitch and moan as much as us because he wants it succeed regardless of what is wrong with it but I could be wrong and I apologise if I am wrong. But hats off to him for bearing the brunt. IMHO, he's the only decent moderator on this forum.

Raven403
25-08-2015, 11:41
The guy is just doing what he is supposed to do, seriously do you not think he's just as peeved as the rest of us .

I dont think he is.(just as peeved I mean)

I dont think it was fair to be put in his position tho. Basically left to fend off the Mob with no real weapons to do so other than Infractions and Bans. Least Bealdor is here, doing the best he can to be fair and moderate the Forum, I applaud him, It cant be easy.

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 11:43
This. More consumers needs to stand up to companies and start talking with their wallet. Don't pre-order and don't buy on day one.



How do you know he is? He might not be for all you or I know. Looks like he plays on PC so I doubt he has the problems that we do. SMS had all the talk at the beginning and now look, their credibility is shot IMO. Everyone that bought this on day one ended up being Alpha/Beta testers. It's a massive letdown and riddled with problems MONTHS down the line. Admin/Mods/Ian has shut people up by banning them if they speak out against the company and say the simple truth of the condition of the game!
He's an investor do you honestly think he wants to see this game fall apart ?
What system the guy plays on is irrelevant without console user's and casual players the game dies and so does his investment.

Not only that but coming on here day after day and reading all this must be soul destroying, but that said I stand by my previous post regarding the game enough is enough.

BMWE87
25-08-2015, 11:49
He's an investor do you honestly think he wants to see this game fall apart ?
What system the guy plays on is irrelevant without console user's and casual players the game dies and so does his investment.

Not only that but coming on here day after day and reading all this must be soul destroying, but that said I stand by my previous post regarding the game enough is enough.

I edited my comment just after you quoted but I see your point and I did mention the exact same thing about his investment and failure.
The system of choice does have a bearing on how you feel, if you play on PC and you have less problems, you're going to be happier with the game as a whole, rather than playing on console, e.g. Xbox One and all of the problems we have faced. I.e. look at Batman: Arkham Knight, PC Players think the game is a piece of shit, but as a console player I think it's brilliant, the reason is because on consoles the number of problems has been minimal compared to the number of problems on PC. See my point? The game can still prevail on PC, just not as well as if it was multi-plat. PC gaming is not as small a chunk as you may think it is. Yes consoles are more casual but PC gamers are still a large market. I am not included in that as I am a console only gamer now.

Yes, with this game, enough is enough. I agree with you. But with the level of being pissed off about the situation can and does depend on what you play on IMO. Obviously we are all MORE pissed off with the game/SMS than a PC player. Let's not even try to deny that or argue it.

VR-Mustard
25-08-2015, 11:52
The guy is just doing what he is supposed to do, seriously do you not think he's just as peeved as the rest of us .

No not at all..

Sankyo
25-08-2015, 11:55
Frightened to voice a opinion on here because of these mods.
If 'voicing a opinion' means swearing, posting unfounded accusations and posting the same thing mulitple times a day, every day then yes you should be afraid because it's not doing anything but turning another internet forum into a useless pile of postings from people intent to voice their opinion in the harshest way they can think of because 'freedom of speech' and all that.

And people wonder why the devs aren't as active anymore as they used to be.

VR-Mustard
25-08-2015, 11:56
You see I've spent 5y building up www.VRroom.org and like so many others was waiting patiently for this game only to have my heart broken because of all the game breaking unfixable bugs.. ie the invisible wall bug.

How can one of these mods feel like those guys who have put so much time and effort into building their websites/communities to promote this game.

Don't get me wrong i know that you guys are only doing your job and that's the point.. So many people reporting the same things and getting nothing back only a infraction or banned. It's a disgrace.

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 11:56
I edited my comment just after you quoted but I see your point and I did mention the exact same thing about his investment and failure.
The system does have a bearing on how you feel, if you play on PC and you have less problems, you're going to be happier with the game as a whole, rather than playing on console, e.g. Xbox One and all of the problems we have faced. I hope my point makes sense, not sure if I'm being clear about it. The game can still prevail on PC, just not as well as if it was multi-plat.

Yes, with this game, enough is enough. I agree with you. But with the level of being pissed off about the situation can and does depend on what you play on IMO. Obviously we are all MORE pissed off with the game/SMS than a PC player. Let's not even try to deny that or argue it.

Certainly wouldn't argue with you on that point buddy agree with you 100%

Raven403
25-08-2015, 11:59
If 'voicing a opinion' means swearing, posting unfounded accusations and posting the same thing mulitple times a day, every day then yes you should be afraid because it's not doing anything but turning another internet forum into a useless pile of postings from people intent to voice their opinion in the harshest way they can think of because 'freedom of speech' and all that.

And people wonder why the devs aren't as active anymore as they used to be.

Im sorry Remco but I cant accept that.

I know people on the internet are brash, and there are Trolls yes. But Ian had NO PROBLEMS engaging and fighting with those people, Breeding the form of communication we have now on the forum. The posters that got a response from Ian Bell were the ones Cursing, and Trolling, so alot of people started talked that way, and got lots of attention for doing so.

Not only that, If you start a Forum you have to expect a certain amount of trolling and disrespect, thats no Excuse for no communication from Devs, Im sorry

Castelli
25-08-2015, 13:43
What disappoints me most is not the game itself, but the treatment of consumers. Some comments are harsh but are just a reflection of the delivered product.

EMW Grogan
25-08-2015, 14:18
And people wonder why the devs aren't as active anymore as they used to be.

The Devs stay away because of the abuse? Or complaints? Or both?

Yeah i can see that, i wouldnt want to see people constantly highlighting the failings of years of work i had done, and to be honest i wouldnt want to keep coming back to hear people moaning and whinging about bugs and glitches that have survived 2 or 3 patches. It must be soul destroying to know that people still complain even though you have tried to fix it in good faith. But they still moan as its still not working quite right.

OverHaased
25-08-2015, 14:19
Before patch 2.0 I posted this game was seriously defective, I was then basically throttled by several mods and received an infraction for saying "The Dev's did a poor job of vetting this game on XBoxOne,". That is my actual quote that garnered the infraction on a thread that has been deleted. Then Patch 2.0 landed, it began a series of new bugs that seemed far worse then what was happening before it. I posted "That this poor retarded game showed so much promise but alas it shall now fade away due to it's obvious neglect pre-birth"" For that I was banned.

I still attempt to play this game, and interact with many fun and enjoyable sufferers like myself that trudge through the murky existence living on promises of better days to come.

The moderation is heavy handed and in many cases self serving. Fine they have their idea of the job and do it to their desired excellence. It is a thankless job and for the most part unappreciated. It is a very necessary evil, these boards turn to instant anarchy with out it.


So yea we the customers are frustrated to the point of anger from time to time, but anger usually turns to sorrow and sorrow is a strong enough emotion to make us stop playing forever. That is really friggen sad.

ermo
25-08-2015, 15:25
Before patch 2.0 I posted this game was seriously defective, I was then basically throttled by several mods and received an infraction for saying "The Dev's did a poor job of vetting this game on XBoxOne,". That is my actual quote that garnered the infraction on a thread that has been deleted. Then Patch 2.0 landed, it began a series of new bugs that seemed far worse then what was happening before it. I posted "That this poor retarded game showed so much promise but alas it shall now fade away due to it's obvious neglect pre-birth"" For that I was banned.

I still attempt to play this game, and interact with many fun and enjoyable sufferers like myself that trudge through the murky existence living on promises of better days to come.

The moderation is heavy handed and in many cases self serving. Fine they have their idea of the job and do it to their desired excellence. It is a thankless job and for the most part unappreciated. It is a very necessary evil, these boards turn to instant anarchy with out it.


So yea we the customers are frustrated to the point of anger from time to time, but anger usually turns to sorrow and sorrow is a strong enough emotion to make us stop playing forever. That is really friggen sad.

I'm curious: what does "seriously defective" mean to you? That you can't even start up the game? That the game crashes as soon as you attempt to move around in the UI? That the game corrupts your XBox hard drive and bricks your device?

Or is it more a question of something like "If I just tool around alone in clear weather @14:00 on Oulton Park in a quick race with one AI opponent with 'real' assists driving the Clio Cup, I sometimes hit an invisible barrier in corner X."? Or is it to do with how multiplayer works (or doesn't)?

From a totally dispassionate perspective, there's an important difference between an "annoyance bug" and a "crash bug". And I'm in no way trying to shut you up or tell you that your frustrations aren't legitimate, because frustrations are typically a result of reality not meeting expectations. If the game makes you angry, it is typically because it ruined your fun or behaved in a way that made you go "WTF?! *ragequit* :livid:".

But that's just it: All I'm suggesting is that you cannot equate the emotions the game induced in you in a set of specific circumstances with the overall state of the game. Am I making sense? :)

As a WMD backer, part of me sort of wished that we had not begun marketing the product as the finished article in May 2015, but had instead offered it as an open beta/early access title for 3-6 months. OTOH, I'm not sure how that could have been done on the consoles tbh, so it is what it is. Personally, I take comfort in the fact that SMS are clearly not abandoning Project CARS but are instead focusing on delivering on their promise of continuous post-release support.

One could argue that it is a shame that issues keep popping up, but again, software development is a complex undertaking and it is very, very difficult to get ANY software product into a state where it is in both wide-spread use and has no known defects. Right now, my perspective is that all we as backers and players can realistically do is to offer constructive criticism and support SMS and hope that our support in the form of concise issue reports and general encouragement spur them on and give them the motivation to go the extra mile to reproduce intermittent issues and implement, test and sign off the necessary code fixes.

As part of the WMD experience, we backers learned the hard way that flaming the devs and their labour of love certainly won't get anyone anywhere, which is why the mods (who are all experienced, level-headed WMDers) try to clean up that sort communication post haste. If the environment here is openly hostile, why would the devs (who love what they do) want to engage with us players? Freedom of speech goes both ways: No one is forcing you to sign up here and no one is obligated to endure you posting offensive and/or hostile material. And here I'm using 'you' in the general sense.

For the record: I think it's a shame that those of you on the XBox One have had such a frustrating experience with Project CARS. I really, honestly hope it gets better. And I know for a fact that the XBox One team @SMS care deeply about both the game and the platform. I urge people to try to keep that in mind whenever the game induces in you the irresistible urge to post invective in the general direction of SMS. :)

D1rty Duck UK
25-08-2015, 15:49
It shouldn't of cost us 40-50 TO BETA test the game and still BETA test the game months after release.

The game on XBOX for some is unplayable and months after release this should not be the case. The online is a joke and we don't know how patch 3.0 will work with searching lobbies. Yes in test it might work well, but hey they said the game worked well then they released it to find out game breaking bugs which were not found.

SMS patch failure rate is horrendous. While im happy to hear the SMS Xbox team are fixing issues the fact that the game was released in such a bad state has left a very sour taste in my mouth. So much that PCars 2 is bargin bin buy for me..

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 16:08
In all fairness the only part of this game that is playable for me is solo with a low AI count with no rain using mostly GT3s as the physics are all over the place on most other cars (not all) causing me to constantly adjust my controller settings which im sick of doing.

Every other part of this game has to many issues that frustrate me to the point of turning it off.

Now these are just my gripes minimalised there is a world of players out there with there own set of problems and issues.

my question is just how patient do us xbox players and players in general have to be ?

Im Sorry
25-08-2015, 16:16
In all fairness the only part of this game that is playable for me is solo with a low AI count with no rain using mostly GT3s as the physics are all over the place on most other cars causing me to constantly adjust my controller settings which im sick of doing.

Every other part of this game as to many issues that frustrate me to the point of turning it off.

my question is just how patient do us xbox players have to be ?

Same here!

beetes_juice
25-08-2015, 16:22
my question is just how patient do us xbox players and players in general have to be ?

As patient as you want. Couldn't you go play something else?

I'm Sorry, we need to setup an online room for some races or something. Would like to see how bad the online is for ya.

Im Sorry
25-08-2015, 16:24
As patient as you want. Couldn't you go play something else?

I think most already have.

beetes_juice
25-08-2015, 16:25
I think most already have.

Who is most?

Im Sorry
25-08-2015, 16:27
Who is most?

A lot of Xbox user's.

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 16:32
As patient as you want. Can't you go play something else?

I'm Sorry, we need to setup an online room for some races or something. Would like to see how bad the online is for ya.
I like to play in full what I have paid in full for.

Ok SMS are trying to fix it a bit at a time but the store isn't taking payment a dollal /pound a bit at a time.

As for your remark go play something else that is exactly what many of us Xbox owners will be doing come September, and we will be taking our hard earned with us for the foreseeable future.

we'll see how well DLC and P2 does with out the vast Majority of disgruntled players.
And yes im sure most will shut the door on the way out.

beetes_juice
25-08-2015, 16:35
A lot of Xbox user's.

Ahhh the good old "a lot" :cool:

Anyway I guess a lot of it goes by what your friends list shows. Nightly, mine is about 10-15 PC and 1-3 Forza. Dk what yours shows but yeah if its the other way around then yeah you can say "a lot". But can't go by the 15-20 guys on here who are constantly bashing the game.

Anyway #2, still holding you to that online room sometime.

beetes_juice
25-08-2015, 16:39
I like to play in full what I have paid in full for.

Ok SMS are trying to fix it a bit at a time but the store isn't taking payment a dollal /pound a bit at a time.

we'll see how well DLC and P2 does with out the vast Majority of disgruntled players.

I've been playing what I paid in full for the past 3 months. So have many others. Its nice.


As for your remark go play something else that is exactly what many of us Xbox owners will be doing come September, and we will be taking our hard earned with us for the foreseeable future.

Have fun!

OverHaased
25-08-2015, 16:45
I'm curious: what does "seriously defective" mean to you? That you can't even start up the game? That the game crashes as soon as you attempt to move around in the UI? That the game corrupts your XBox hard drive and bricks your device?

Or is it more a question of something like "If I just tool around alone in clear weather @14:00 on Oulton Park in a quick race with one AI opponent with 'real' assists driving the Clio Cup, I sometimes hit an invisible barrier in corner X."? Or is it to do with how multiplayer works (or doesn't)?

From a totally dispassionate perspective, there's an important difference between an "annoyance bug" and a "crash bug". And I'm in no way trying to shut you up or tell you that your frustrations aren't legitimate, because frustrations are typically a result of reality not meeting expectations. If the game makes you angry, it is typically because it ruined your fun or behaved in a way that made you go "WTF?! *ragequit* :livid:".

But that's just it: All I'm suggesting is that you cannot equate the emotions the game induced in you in a set of specific circumstances with the overall state of the game. Am I making sense? :)

As a WMD backer, part of me sort of wished that we had not begun marketing the product as the finished article in May 2015, but had instead offered it as an open beta/early access title for 3-6 months. OTOH, I'm not sure how that could have been done on the consoles tbh, so it is what it is. Personally, I take comfort in the fact that SMS are clearly not abandoning Project CARS but are instead focusing on delivering on their promise of continuous post-release support.

One could argue that it is a shame that issues keep popping up, but again, software development is a complex undertaking and it is very, very difficult to get ANY software product into a state where it is in both wide-spread use and has no known defects. Right now, my perspective is that all we as backers and players can realistically do is to offer constructive criticism and support SMS and hope that our support in the form of concise issue reports and general encouragement spur them on and give them the motivation to go the extra mile to reproduce intermittent issues and implement, test and sign off the necessary code fixes.

As part of the WMD experience, we backers learned the hard way that flaming the devs and their labour of love certainly won't get anyone anywhere, which is why the mods (who are all experienced, level-headed WMDers) try to clean up that sort communication post haste. If the environment here is openly hostile, why would the devs (who love what they do) want to engage with us players? Freedom of speech goes both ways: No one is forcing you to sign up here and no one is obligated to endure you posting offensive and/or hostile material. And here I'm using 'you' in the general sense.

For the record: I think it's a shame that those of you on the XBox One have had such a frustrating experience with Project CARS. I really, honestly hope it gets better. And I know for a fact that the XBox One team @SMS care deeply about both the game and the platform. I urge people to try to keep that in mind whenever the game induces in you the irresistible urge to post invective in the general direction of SMS. :)


Seriously?

OK fine, because no one has ever listed the reasons the game is not functioning to a level to be considered minor annoyance verses broken.

I will then lists them in categories;

Multi Player (Online)

Complete loss of all saved data constructed by myself not limited to FFB, car set up, etc.

No player to player communication outside of private races with a skype work around.

Sound glitch that is somehow connected to the physics engine where the sound glitches and the car no longer shifts or maintains current grip rate.

complete loss of FFB when navigating between in-game menus.

Repeated lock up and crashes back to console (this has happened in 2 of the 6 races in my league resulting in DNS's and killing any chance of making the finals after investing dozens of hours for just this series)

Complete lack of lobby control nor any tiered or rated racing (as promised by SMS advertising pre release)


Now realize this list was something I just slammed together to respond to your posts and is not a complete lists, not by a long shot


So yes this game is Seriously defective and if I hear one more time how complex it is to write code to produce a piece of gaming software I will friggen lose my mind. Of course it is a complex and daunting undertaking, that is why we pay for it, as we can not do it ourselves so we lay out millions of dollars to purchase this piece of difficult to produce software.

If this was any other type of technology the retailer would be bankrupt defending their-self in civil court.

It was sold in an unfinished, obviously under-tested condition for full price. Never once have I seen a single SMS employee apologize for their errors, not one time have they admitted that this piece of software should have been held back these last three months. The reason is quite obvious, you the WMD failed to give enough or correct feedback to allow the bugs to be found and corrected pre-launch. The WMD failed, the game sold anyway.


I have no choice but to sit around and wait like the rest of the customers for the people that have our monies to do the job they have already been paid for. I make no apology if the truth is painful to read, because trust me, it is also quite painful to suffer through these game breaking faults knowing that I am actually paying for this frustration, and SMS has the audacity to attempt to sell me even more DLC or what ever...



So there you go, I see in your signature you, like most of the WMD are on a PC as that speaks volumes about your lack of understanding or what a single platform user is going through when that platform is the XBoxOne.

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 16:53
I've been playing what I paid in full for the past 3 months. So have many others. Its nice.
Stopped reading right here.


Have fun!

The fantasy was just too much.

Im Sorry
25-08-2015, 16:59
As patient as you want. Couldn't you go play something else?

I'm Sorry, we need to setup an online room for some races or something. Would like to see how bad the online is for ya.

No thanks.My friends list has got nothing to do with my opinion!

But the local game stores might sway it.

As for you playing the full game for months,I'm glad you managed to get a different copy from me!

beetes_juice
25-08-2015, 17:14
The fantasy was just too much.

If a fantasy consists of 300 some hours of online play with friends for the past few months then yeah its a fantasy, a great one at that. I've gotten my share of dashboard/drive button locked but yeah can't you just join the room again and start from where you left off?

Anyway it does seem I was sold a magical digital copy of the game. Half the things I read on here I have never seen or encountered.

Oh come on Im Sorry just one race.

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 17:26
If a fantasy consists of 300 some hours of online play with friends for the past few months then yeah its a fantasy, a great one at that. I've gotten my share of dashboard/drive button locked but yeah can't you just join the room again and start from where you left off?

Anyway it does seem I was sold a magical digital copy of the game. Half the things I read on here I have never seen or encountered.

Oh come on Im Sorry just one race.

Ok cool all banter aside you can play online great no really I'm pleased for you and your mates, me however and yes my mates to have heaps of problems one of which is the car just freezing, nothing we can do about this other than come out of the lobby and hope we can get back in which most of the time we can't but ah no big deal it's all fun, isn't it!! But now here's the biggy crash to Xbox home screen and lock, now that's a hard reset jobbie, but wtf it's only our console that's taking a hit that's cool right.

Seriously you've got a full and wonderful game, brilliant so feel free to come on here and chuck your stones into an already unbalanced pool mate, SMS got it right for you.

TAGS Battfink
25-08-2015, 17:29
In all fairness the only part of this game that is playable for me is solo with a low AI count with no rain using mostly GT3s as the physics are all over the place on most other cars (not all) causing me to constantly adjust my controller settings which im sick of doing.

Every other part of this game has to many issues that frustrate me to the point of turning it off.

Now these are just my gripes minimalised there is a world of players out there with there own set of problems and issues.

my question is just how patient do us xbox players and players in general have to be ?

Do you have your xbone in standby mode? I used to, but it causes a shed load of issues on pcars.

Now i dont, and i can race with massive grids, in the rain, for 20 plus laps, while streaming with no issues whatsoever.

Who knows maybe i got a lucky dl code too....... lol

wraithsrike
25-08-2015, 17:33
Do you have your xbone in standby mode? I used to, but it causes a shed load of issues on pcars.

Now i dont, and i can race with massive grids, in the rain, for 20 plus laps, while streaming with no issues whatsoever.

Who knows maybe i got a lucky dl code too....... lol

I do bud yes, I'll try taking it off standby mode and see if that helps. Thanks for the heads up.

Raven403
25-08-2015, 17:34
I do bud yes, I'll try taking it off standby mode and see if that helps. Thanks for the heads up.

I can second his advice. I never use Standby mode and I almost never have FPS problems or anything of that sort.

Schnizz58
25-08-2015, 17:34
I do bud yes, I'll try taking it off standby mode and see if that helps. Thanks for the heads up.
Lots of things are fixed by using power save mode.

beetes_juice
25-08-2015, 17:36
Ok cool all banter aside you can play online great no really I'm pleased for you and your mates, me however and yes my mates to have heaps of problems one of which is the car just freezing, nothing we can do about this other than come out of the lobby and hope we can get back in which most of the time we can't but ah no big deal it's all fun, isn't it!! But now here's the biggy crash to Xbox home screen and lock, now that's a hard reset jobbie, but wtf it's only our console that's taking a hit that's cool right.

Seriously you've got a full and wonderful game, brilliant so feel free to come on here and chuck your stones into an already unbalanced pool mate, SMS got it right for you.

Understandable, wasn't my intention to rag on others or shove it in your face. Just came in here to say go play something else and kinda snowballed from there.

Anyway, should try to get a lobby going with people having issues. Maybe its something your doing or I dk always good to talk about it and get some races in.

Side note: Shoudn't need a hard reset when you get dashboarded, just boot back up the game. That's what I do if that happens.

Plato99
25-08-2015, 17:38
Voicing your opinion is totally fine.
Being frustrated about the bugs/issues you experience is totally fine.

Posting sarcastic (and partially insulting) comments five times a day is totally useless and even counterproductive.

Only five? I suggest you take your moderation duties more seriously, I guarantee you've missed some 😀

Plato99
25-08-2015, 17:46
The Devs stay away because of the abuse? Or complaints? Or both?

Yeah i can see that, i wouldnt want to see people constantly highlighting the failings of years of work i had done, and to be honest i wouldnt want to keep coming back to hear people moaning and whinging about bugs and glitches that have survived 2 or 3 patches. It must be soul destroying to know that people still complain even though you have tried to fix it in good faith. But they still moan as its still not working quite right.

Not quite how I feel tbh. I would never put down another man's work, especially if he'd put his heart and soul in to it.
I'm a designer by trade and I know how it feels when a customer poopoos your own creations.
However, if he'd been telling me for months how great it was going to be, showing me stunning shots of work in progress, then sold it to me with a lot of the interesting and appealing bits missing, and it not at all living up to the self proclaimed hype, then yes, I would give him a round of effs and demand to know whats going on.

TAGS Battfink
25-08-2015, 17:51
I do bud yes, I'll try taking it off standby mode and see if that helps. Thanks for the heads up.

Honestly its the best advice anyone can give, it literally makes a MASSIVE difference. I know it shouldnt haplen but it does, and a full power down (and a hard reset every few days), really does fix shit loadsof issues.

Only issues i get while actually in a race is obviously the audio glitch, the guy in the pits not moving out the way sometimes, the odd visual glitch in the sky/shadow glitch, and thats pretty much it.

ermo
26-08-2015, 07:39
Seriously?

OK fine, because no one has ever listed the reasons the game is not functioning to a level to be considered minor annoyance verses broken.

I will then lists them in categories;

(...)

It was sold in an unfinished, obviously under-tested condition for full price. Never once have I seen a single SMS employee apologize for their errors, not one time have they admitted that this piece of software should have been held back these last three months. The reason is quite obvious, you the WMD failed to give enough or correct feedback to allow the bugs to be found and corrected pre-launch. The WMD failed, the game sold anyway.


I have no choice but to sit around and wait like the rest of the customers for the people that have our monies to do the job they have already been paid for. I make no apology if the truth is painful to read, because trust me, it is also quite painful to suffer through these game breaking faults knowing that I am actually paying for this frustration, and SMS has the audacity to attempt to sell me even more DLC or what ever...



So there you go, I see in your signature you, like most of the WMD are on a PC as that speaks volumes about your lack of understanding or what a single platform user is going through when that platform is the XBoxOne.

I hear you loud and clear re. the defects -- Project CARS game is clearly giving some of you enough grief that you are on the verge of losing all faith in the title and the people who produced it. Personally, I'm very sorry to see that because this clearly was never SMS's intent. That it played out like it appears to have is a bloody shame.

Just wanted to clarify that "we the WMD" did not have access to the console builds prior to release, so I don't think it is correct to blame WMD for the state of the PC -> XBox One port. And yes, I'm not into console gaming (never was, never will be) because I like the freedom to tinker and mod my games by hacking around defects or what I consider misfeatures, which implies that I can live with some level of misfeatures because I can just attempt to work around them. Being a console gamer, I imagine that you probably have other priorities?

I also "make no apology if the truth is painful to read" because everything I said about software development and how SMS perceive our attitude towards them is true. The difference, I guess, is that I have seen the developers at SMS actively try to make things work for me and succeed in doing so. To give you a bit of backstory, I have been involved with modding both SHIFT and S2U on the PC and I can tell you for a fact that the early pCARS dev builds contained the very same issues that we previously identified in Shift 2: Unleashed; I used to help develop and co-maintain the Unofficial Community Patch for S2U, so I'd like to think that I have at least some idea of what worked and didn't in that title. What we saw during the WMD process was that SMS were initially surprised at learning that people saw bug X and Y, because they hadn't seen it during their in-house testing. So you could say that their reality and our reality didn't align until they began sourcing different (PC) hardware and saw that they encountered bugs that were 'invisible' to them on their normal dev hardware. After they had reproduced the bugs we pointed out, they owned up to them and fixed them, which is what made me buy into Project CARS/WMD above the measly €25 I put in at first.

As early as 2011 we WMDers asked if it would be possible to test the console versions of Project CARS and were told that we couldn't due to the way Sony and MS conduct their business wrt. certification and development kits. So it's not as if we didn't try.

Again, I stress that I have sympathy for the issues you XBox One players are seeing. I wish there was something I could do or say to make you understand and trust that SMS are trying their hardest to give you the best experience possible and that, as a consequence, flaming them while they try to make things right really, honestly won't help you get a better experience.

But I also understand that all this backstory is basically irrelevant if you can't drive the title like you want to/paid for.

Plato99
26-08-2015, 07:50
Then it's almost a waste of time developers working on console titles if indeed it is true that devs can't test them first.
It's like BMW building a car and the first time it ever gets road tested is when Hans in Stuttgart takes the first one sold out of the showroom.
It's as plainly unworkable as it is unfathomable, ridiculous, and IMHO totally unbelievable. How can you stand behind a product when you can't be certain it works at all? It's a huge leap of faith that does nothing to discredit all development teams. I'm going to talk to other development teams about this because, don't take this personally please, I just don't buy it at all. It's balmy.

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 08:05
Then it's almost a waste of time developers working on console titles if indeed it is true that devs can't test them first.
It's like BMW building a car and the first time it ever gets road tested is when Hans in Stuttgart takes the first one sold out of the showroom.
It's as plainly unworkable as it is unfathomable, ridiculous, and IMHO totally unbelievable. How can you stand behind a product when you can't be certain it works at all? It's a huge leap of faith that does nothing to discredit all development teams. I'm going to talk to other development teams about this because, don't take this personally please, I just don't buy it at all. It's balmy.

Devs can test them first. They get dev kits but often they are different to the retail kits we have in our homes.

Pretty sure around February of this year retail kits were doubled up as dev kits anyway as Microsoft told devs how to change the retail kits to dev kits. At least that was various articles state and a quick Google search.

http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/Developers

Plato99
26-08-2015, 08:25
Devs can test them first. They get dev kits but often they are different to the retail kits we have in our homes.

http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/Developers

By its very nature it's a flawed test. You can't test on one setup and assume it works fine on a different one That's faith, not science.

Plato99
26-08-2015, 08:27
If this is how MS expect dev teams to work then it's wrong from the top down.
MS need to provide some kind of access key to devs to allow them to test on consumer hardware. In theory it sounds incredibly basic.

NeonFlux
26-08-2015, 08:39
It seems to me that more and more games are being released onto the xbox with bugs and glitches. I think the last game I bought that worked straight out the box was NFS Hot Pursuit back in 2010 (EA server problems aside).

IMO Microsoft could be doing more to support developers in delivering working products to us the consumer. I don't find it acceptable that they refuse to let devs test games properly on their platform. Is it any wonder there are so many issues with games these days.

I guess one way round this is for devs to release beta versions prior to release, pretty much like Bizarre did with Blur. I'm not sure if Microsoft's new early access programme could be used for that?

Umer Ahmad
26-08-2015, 08:51
^SMS intends to employ the MSFT Early Access facility (and any similar facility on the Sony side) for pCARS2 development.

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 08:56
It seems to me that more and more games are being released onto the xbox with bugs and glitches. I think the last game I bought that worked straight out the box was NFS Hot Pursuit back in 2010 (EA server problems aside).

IMO Microsoft could be doing more to support developers in delivering working products to us the consumer. I don't find it acceptable that they refuse to let devs test games properly on their platform. Is it any wonder there are so many issues with games these days.

I guess one way round this is for devs to release beta versions prior to release, pretty much like Bizarre did with Blur. I'm not sure if Microsoft's new early access programme could be used for that?

Thief
Sunset Overdrive
NBA 2K14
Batman Arkham Knight
Watch_Dogs
Dying Light
Need for Speed Rivals

all released with minimal bugs on Xbox One IIRC. Batman Arkham Knight on PC is a completely different story.

Blur by the way was an epic game. Shame Blur 2 never game to fruition.


If this is how MS expect dev teams to work then it's wrong from the top down.
MS need to provide some kind of access key to devs to allow them to test on consumer hardware. In theory it sounds incredibly basic.

You quoted before I edited my comment but MS was saying that the dev kits ARE basically retail kits. Devs have the option to unlock them (or atleast they should do now.)

http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/17/8051525/xbox-one-dev-kit-retail-app-development-universal

Lagoa
26-08-2015, 08:57
Xbox now has the 'Premium games', the same as 'steam early acces'. You buy the game for a small price, and can test the game and give feedback, and they keep updating it untill it's fine for official release. Should work like a charm. And is DEFINITELY something SMS should look into. I for one, would buy the premium game first day and support it.

NeonFlux
26-08-2015, 08:59
Thief
Sunset Overdrive
NBA 2K14
Batman Arkham Knight
Watch_Dogs
Dying Light
Need for Speed Rivals

all released with minimal bugs on Xbox One IIRC. Batman Arkham Knight on PC is a completely different story.

Blur by the way was an epic game. Shame Blur 2 never game to fruition.



You quoted before I edited my comment but MS was saying that the dev kits ARE basically retail kits. Devs have the option to unlock them (or atleast they should do now.)

http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/17/8051525/xbox-one-dev-kit-retail-app-development-universal

I didn't buy any of those... I must of been unlucky with my purchases !

Yh, Blur was good fun. It's a shame Bizarre aren't around anymore.

Bultaco85
26-08-2015, 09:02
Same for me!

NeonFlux
26-08-2015, 09:08
^SMS intends to employ the MSFT Early Access facility (and any similar facility on the Sony side) for pCARS2 development.

Thanks for this info.... I will ensure I sign up to it so I can get involved :)

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 09:13
I didn't buy any of those... I must of been unlucky with my purchases !

Yh, Blur was good fun. It's a shame Bizarre aren't around anymore.

PCars is the only game I've ever owned that I've had to shelf because of problems. It's only game I've ever owned with this many problems. It's the only game where I come onto the forum first to check if there are problems with it before I even play it! I have circa 500 or so games for my various consoles to put that into perspective for you.

Yeah massive shame. I'd buy Blur 2 in a heartbeat! Still play Blur 1, one of the best games I've ever bought for 360 and it was a random purchase as well.

mkstatto
26-08-2015, 09:49
It didn't help that SMS outsourced the Xbox testing to a third party, it all really stems from there.

KkDrummer
26-08-2015, 10:08
It didn't help that SMS outsourced the Xbox testing to a third party, it all really stems from there.

I didn't know this...is it for real?

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 10:27
I didn't know this...is it for real?

Read this a few times on this forum from WMD members...

Bealdor
26-08-2015, 10:28
Hiring external QA companies is common industry practice.

Raven403
26-08-2015, 10:37
Hiring external QA companies is common industry practice.

It is yes. I hope there was some harshly worded emails sent to the QA company that tested the xbox version prior to launch. I'm not being a smart ass either, if they're the ones responsible for the launch bugs I would be all over them.
Obviously it's too late now, and Pcars2 hopefully can take advantage of early access to address a similar situation. But otherwise a Beta would def. Be recommended I think.

I know Mike Laskey said it's impossible for QA to test things affected by real world variables, like router and Internet speed, open apps etc etc. So that's how WE become the real testers. Just wondering what the QA company is doing that SMS and then US don't already do?

I'm actually asking, I don't know how it works

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 10:39
It is yes. I hope there was some harshly worded emails sent to the QA company that tested the xbox version prior to launch. I'm not being a smart ass either, if they're the ones responsible for the launch bugs I would be all over them.
Obviously it's too late now, and Pcars2 hopefully can take advantage of early access to address a similar situation. But otherwise a Beta would def. Be recommended I think.

I know Mike Laskey said it's impossible for QA to test things affected by real world variables, like router and Internet speed, open apps etc etc. So that's how WE become the real testers. Just wondering what the QA company is doing that SMS and then US don't already do?

I'm actually asking, I don't know how it works

Seems like the QA testers did naff all given how many bugs are in the actual release.

WE the testers upon games release can ultimately test online play. Load on servers, etc.

John Hargreaves
26-08-2015, 10:49
Loads of WMDers would have tested the nuts off pCars console versions if we had the chance. I would have quite happily bought an Xbone just for the purpose, but it just wasn‘t possible, sorry.

Raven403
26-08-2015, 10:55
Loads of WMDers would have tested the nuts off pCars console versions if we had the chance. I would have quite happily bought an Xbone just for the purpose, but it just wasn‘t possible, sorry.

Yeah I know. Shame there was no way to do it.

Hopefully the early access setup MS will provide will help with that on Pcars2

That's also why I was a bit baffled about the QA company prior to release. It couldn't have been very thorough. But I don't know what they do that's y I'm askin

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 10:58
Yeah I know. Shame there was no way to do it.

Hopefully the early access setup MS will provide will help with that on Pcars2

MS has had early access for years has it not? Or was that only for apps/dashboard updates?

Raven403
26-08-2015, 11:05
MS has had early access for years has it not? Or was that only for apps/dashboard updates?

Talking about the preview program I assume.

Far as I know the only way they coulda done it was a Beta

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 11:07
Talking about the preview program I assume.

Far as I know the only way they coulda done it was a Beta

Ah yeah, I'm probably getting it mixed up.

mkstatto
26-08-2015, 12:17
A beta could have been done and is possible, have tested Fifa in beta for many years on the Xbox platforms, granted they have a slightly higher budget. The art of the pre commercial release demo seems to be a dying one sadly that the games industry should reawaken to, instead of the paid early access route.

chillgreg
26-08-2015, 12:35
Moved

Lagoa
26-08-2015, 12:36
Hiring external QA companies is common industry practice.

Wich company was this? As racing 2 minutes with the game it was clear it was unplayable with a controller.
Probably the sisters, brothers and mothers of the dev team. Lol nah, even they would've noticed the controller bugs.

Bealdor
26-08-2015, 12:43
Wich company was this? As racing 2 minutes with the game it was clear it was unplayable with a controller.
Probably the sisters, brothers and mothers of the dev team. Lol nah, even they would've noticed the controller bugs.

The controller bug didn't occur on the dev kits.

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 12:52
The controller bug didn't occur on the dev kits.

Sorry but I find that IMPOSSIBLE to believe.

Bealdor
26-08-2015, 12:57
Sorry but I find that IMPOSSIBLE to believe.

Then why do you still want updates from the devs if you're not believing what they're telling you anyway?

Raven403
26-08-2015, 13:00
The controller bug didn't occur on the dev kits.

The QA is only done on dev kits? Why wouldn't they use retail kits as well? Although I think the dev kit just allows them to play while looking at code. How could it be that much different I wonder

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:01
Then why do you still want updates from the devs if you're not believing what they're telling you anyway?

I haven't asked for an update so don't single me out but seeing as you have singled me out.

I have been asking who tested the game and did they test the game properly? Evidently they didn't given how many bugs are in the final release.

Reading my posts would be a start :rolleyes:

Ps don't get upset that I'm being sarcastic as I've seen YOU yourself be sarcastic and say it's okay. So if a moderator/admin/super mod can do it then any user can.

Lead by example and all that.

browny8099
26-08-2015, 13:04
Sorry but I find that IMPOSSIBLE to believe.

but you find it possible that they would release PCars with the controller bug!

That just doesn't make sense to me, something like that would have to be resolved (which it is now) so why knowing release the build with the bug present?

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:05
but you find it possible that they would release PCars with the controller bug!

That just doesn't make sense to me, something like that would have to be resolved (which it is now) so why knowing release the build with the bug present?

I don't think the game was tested properly by the third party QA team (as Bealdor has pointed out) or SMS or whoever did it. Had it been tested properly half of the bugs found at release would have been found. I find it impossible that the controller bug WAS NOT found during QA testing. If it was found on the retail kit it would have shown on the dev kit. Dev kits allow real time code to be shown when playing as well as being more open with more adjustable variables rather than the closed off consoles that we have.

I was saying I find it impossible that the controller bug didn't show on the dev kit. I don't buy that for one second.

wraithsrike
26-08-2015, 13:06
Then why do you still want updates from the devs if you're not believing what they're telling you anyway?

Where have the developers told as that? Personally I do agree that this game was hardly tested with a controller as some of these bugs would of been so obvious but then in fairness that of course could be said for the whole game regarding consoles.

Bealdor
26-08-2015, 13:07
The QA is only done on dev kits? Why wouldn't they use retail kits as well? Although I think the dev kit just allows them to play while looking at code. How could it be that much different I wonder

Because they can't test dev builds on retail kits.

ermo
26-08-2015, 13:10
It didn't help that SMS outsourced the Xbox testing to a third party, it all really stems from there.


I didn't know this...is it for real?


Read this a few times on this forum from WMD members...

We WMD members were told this too. Of course SMS also tested internally and the dev director noted that the XBox One team @SMS were quite distraught to learn of the amount of issues that real users were seeing that simply hadn't shown themselves during in-house testing. Project CARS really is their baby and I have seen dev commits go in past midnight UK time during the week because the guys were chasing down a hard to catch bug or implementing a spiffy optimization.

It's a shitty situation for paying customers and an awful situation to be in for SMS because -- and please remember that I speak from several years of WMD experience here -- the guys at SMS are top blokes, competent developers and all around sim enthusiasts who wanted nothing more but to make the best cross-platform Sim experience they could given the finanicial constraints <-> creative freedom tradeoffs that the WMD crowd-funding model represented.

As Umer said, SMS will definitely do their utmost to make use of the MSFT Early Access program (and Sony's equivalent) for pCARS 2 development. As I understand it (and I may be misremembering here), this program wasn't available to SMS (for whatever reason) during pCARS development. As I said above, the SMS dev director did share that SMS paid a 3rd party to help test the XBox One version too -- so they both did in-house testing and 3rd party testing. So to suggest that SMS didn't try their best to do their due dilligence is quite simply wrong.

As we now know, testing coverage apparently wasn't 100% (that's the diplomatic way of putting it -- one only has to look at present thread and the various XBox One threads to see a more, shall we say, frank and forthright assessment of the situation).

So yeah, I have a lot of sympathy for both you XBox One players AND the SMS XBox One team. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. :dejection:



The controller bug didn't occur on the dev kits.

What Bealdor says here ties nicely into what I was trying to convey: That SMS can well be in good faith when they release a product (or a patch) because they simply didn't experience the bugs during in-house and 3rd party testing.

Having studied Comp. Sci myself I feel fairly confident in stating that testing (and the entailing combinatorial explosion of test scenarios) can be bloody difficult and time consuming in all but the simplest projects. At least SMS are here listening and are trying their best to reproduce customer issue reports locally so that they can work to locate the root cause of the issue, develop a fix and do their best to test that it didn't break something else in the process.

I mean, sometimes just changing simple things can lead to a cascade of unforeseen issues which only show up once in a blue moon on dev hardware but that, given a large enough sample of test systems playing simultaneously (aka real-world usage scenario), will rear their ugly head on a daily basis.

I also appreciate that to someone seeing a particular issue frequently, it can be mind-boggling why SMS didn't experience it during testing. But if they had seen it, don't you people think they would have done their best to fix it before pushing out the product/patch? Given the frank, honest, open and thoroughly professional communication I have witnessed internally on the WMD forum since October 2011, I certainly do.

And again, I reiterate that those of you affected by game breaking/immersion breaking bugs have my absolute sympathy.

wraithsrike
26-08-2015, 13:11
Because they can't test dev builds on retail kits.

Then why not test a retail build on a retail unit instead of just getting the paying public it do it? Let's face it there is no excuse, this game simply wasn't tested properly on consoles before release.

Bealdor
26-08-2015, 13:11
Where have the developers told as that?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23635-I-want-my-money-back&p=897619&viewfull=1#post897619

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22683-The-final-straw-its-getting-traded&p=889939&viewfull=1#post889939

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22683-The-final-straw-its-getting-traded&p=890356&viewfull=1#post890356

wraithsrike
26-08-2015, 13:16
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23635-I-want-my-money-back&p=897619&viewfull=1#post897619

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22683-The-final-straw-its-getting-traded&p=889939&viewfull=1#post889939

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22683-The-final-straw-its-getting-traded&p=890356&viewfull=1#post890356

And the rest of my question?

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:18
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23635-I-want-my-money-back&p=897619&viewfull=1#post897619

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22683-The-final-straw-its-getting-traded&p=889939&viewfull=1#post889939

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22683-The-final-straw-its-getting-traded&p=890356&viewfull=1#post890356

Because printing one disc and testing it on a retail console costs a million pounds :rolleyes:.


So after playing it on the xbox one do you agree there are many faults to be addressed? Would you be happy paying 50 for it in this state? Can you see how annoyed many xbox owners are waiting for months to play this and this is what we get


No, we think it's perfect and don't understand anyone's annoyance.

(sorry but I've answered this 6 times now).

Here's a lesson of what NOT to do as head of a company replying to a comment...

wraithsrike
26-08-2015, 13:19
To be frank we can go on and on like this, but what it boils down to is the console version was not tested fully before release regardless of who's fault it is / was.

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:20
To be frank we can go on and on like this, but what it boils down to is the console version was not tested fully before release regardless of who's fault it is / was.

This is something that SOME WMD members/moderators and SMS DO NOT want to accept.

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 13:21
Give it a rest please Plato.

I totally understand your frustration, especially the delayed release of the newest patch.
But constantly posting one liners how s**t this game is in your opinion does help noone.

Constructive feedback and bug reports dont seem to help either, so people want to show their frustration in provoking posts of course.
Pitstops and random weather still dont work properly, even after tons of reports. And those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Patch 3.0 was super disappointing apart from the few visual improvements and the tyre wear indicator. A tyre wear indicator!
Not even the fuel estimation thing works reliably.

Lagoa
26-08-2015, 13:28
Constructive feedback and bug reports dont seem to help either, so people want to show their frustration in provoking posts of course.
Pitstops and random weather still dont work properly, even after tons of reports. And those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Patch 3.0 was super disappointing apart from the few visual improvements and the tyre wear indicator. A tyre wear indicator!
Not even the fuel estimation thing works reliably.

This I don't like reading, as I thought 3.0 would actually fix almost everything

wraithsrike
26-08-2015, 13:29
Constructive feedback and bug reports dont seem to help either, so people want to show their frustration in provoking posts of course.
Pitstops and random weather still dont work properly, even after tons of reports. And those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Patch 3.0 was super disappointing apart from the few visual improvements and the tyre wear indicator. A tyre wear indicator!
Not even the fuel estimation thing works reliably.
Exactly, a tyre wear Indicator something along with other missing aspects that should of been in-game to start with, I read many times now how ps4 players are not impressed with there current version of the game even after 3.0 it doesn't give much hope for us Xbox players does it :-(

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:30
I would have been happier with the game being delayed for another month or two to fix more problems as long as we didn't get this shambles that we have now.

wraithsrike
26-08-2015, 13:32
I would have been happier with the game being delayed for another month or two to fix more problems as long as we didn't get this shambles that we have now.

I personally think it's time to except we brought a lemon and just move on.
No amount of realistic patching or coming on here complaining is ever going to fix it, I think it's got embarrassing for all parties now.

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:35
I personally think it's time to except we brought a lemon and just move on.

Oh, I accepted that a month after it released. The fact it still doesn't work properly, over 3 months down the line just cements that.

What is/was a real kick in the teeth is when SMS announced PCars2 and asked for it to be crowdfunded. Crowdfunding is fine but look at the condition of the game when they had announced it. Whoever thought that was a good marketing move should be given some STRONG words.

Bealdor
26-08-2015, 13:37
Oh, I accepted that a month after it released. The fact it still doesn't work properly, over 5 months down the line just cements that.

What is/was a real kick in the teeth is when SMS announced PCars2 and asked for it to be crowdfunded. Crowdfunding is fine but look at the condition of the game when they had announced it. Whoever thought that was a good marketing move should be given some STRONG words.

Apparently you still haven't understood the reasons for this early announcement and the "crowdfunding".

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:39
Apparently you still haven't understood the reasons for this early announcement and the "crowdfunding".

I understand nothing. :rolleyes:. I let myself out of the hospital while nobody was looking. Don't tell anyone. I have no idea how I got my job as a data analyst/programmer :rolleyes:.

Apparently you think it's okay to blindly defend a company when they have done wrong in simple black and white terms.

Sorry Bealdor but honestly, whenever you defend SMS I imagine you like this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Horse_Blinkers_(4240744343).jpg

Blindly defending a company without even seeing the damage that they've done.

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 13:39
The fact it still doesn't work properly, over 5 months down the line just cements that

Based off North America release date, the game has only been out for 3 months & 14 days. Add a 4 or 5 days for the release in Europe/Australia/UK.

That's some bad math if you came up with 5 months, :)

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:40
Based off North America release date, the game has only been out 3 months & 14 days. Add a 4 or 5 days for the release in Europe/Australia/UK.

May 7, 2015
Project CARS, Initial release date

Google.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_CARS

It was released on 7 May 2015 in Europe and 12 May 2015 in America[18] for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One, while the Linux version has been delayed to later in 2015.[19][20] Project CARS was originally also due for release on the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 but it was later announced that these versions had been cancelled.[21] On February 18, 2015 it was announced that Project CARS would be delayed until April 2, 2015 for Europe,[22] and eventually confirmed to be released on May 7, 2015 in Europe and Australia; May 8, 2015 in the UK; and May 12, 2015 in North America.[2]

Circa 3 months. Corrected.

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 13:41
May 7, 2015
Project CARS, Initial release date

Google.

Why do you think I said add 4 or 5 days. Then it would be 3 months & 19 days, going off May 7th date. I still win.

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:43
Why do you think I said add 4 or 5 days. Then it would be 3 months & 19 days, going off May 7th date. I still win.

http://www.chocolatetradingco.com/pictures/products/8/7/0/.870/~iDbcQmcp/chocolate-medal.jpg

It's a chocolate medal. Remember to share :).

wraithsrike
26-08-2015, 13:44
So it's easy to jump on a guy for a math error, 3 months 5 months it makes no odds the game should not of been released in this state, how long it's been out is completely irrelevant.

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 13:44
Circa 3 months. Corrected.

I know ;)
216227

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 13:45
http://www.chocolatetradingco.com/pictures/products/8/7/0/.870/~iDbcQmcp/chocolate-medal.jpg

It's a chocolate medal. Remember to share :).

Ha ha :)

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 13:45
So it's easy to jump on a guy for a math error, 3 months 5 months it makes no odds the game should not of been released in this state, how long it's been out is completely irrelevant.

It's really not that serious. LOL.

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:45
So it's easy to jump on a guy for a math error, 3 months 5 months it makes no odds the game should not of been released in this state, how long it's been out is completely irrelevant.

Thank you. You got the point I was trying to make!

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 13:49
BMWE87, so what's your 2 favorite cars to race in Project CARS? What's the 2 tracks you run them at (assuming you prefer 2 different tracks to run them separately at).

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 13:50
This I don't like reading, as I thought 3.0 would actually fix almost everything

l was hoping differently as well. Was actually very excited for 3.0 and its 3rd attempt to fix pitstops and the many other features (Spectator, Switch cars in replays, fuel estimation and tyre wear indicator). But, well... Turns out that the tyre indicator is the only thing working properly.

If you are interested, you can read my little sum-up of Patch 3.0 here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?37265-Patch-3-0-Pros-amp-Cons) :)

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:51
BMWE87, so what's your 2 favorite cars to race in Project CARS? What's the 2 tracks you run them at (assuming you prefer 2 different tracks to run them separately at).

Clio Cup at ANY UK Track - Because it reminds me of Touring Cars.
BMW 1M at Laguna Seca because I have a soft spot for them and love Laguna Seca.

Hate the 125cc Karts. They've NEVER handled right to me in this game.

You?

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 13:56
Clio Cup at ANY UK Track - Because it reminds me of Touring Cars.
BMW 1M at Laguna Seca because I have a soft spot for them and love Laguna Seca.

Hate the 125cc Karts. They've NEVER handled right to me in this game.

You?

BMW 320 Turbo Group 5 at Monza Short
Formula Rookie at Oulton Park Island
Audi R18 e-tron quattro at Monza GP

My fav 3.

Clio Cup at Silverstone short would be my #4 ;)

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 13:58
So it's easy to jump on a guy for a math error, 3 months 5 months it makes no odds the game should not of been released in this state, how long it's been out is completely irrelevant.

Thats not the first time he's done that. Looks like thats one of his freetime activities. Dont think he knows that no one likes smartasses :(
And as he's a Project Cars 2 Gold Member, he apparently has nothing relevant to contribute to this thread other than to correct others. Sad.

Such threads are important, really. l remember Plato praising the game a few weeks back and now he got frustrated with it. Thats not the best indicator when fans actually turn against the game, the devs should take this very seriously. l'm slowly losing faith as well.

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:58
BMW 320 Turbo Group 5 at Monza Short
Formula Rookie at Oulton Park Island
Audi R18 e-tron quattro at Monza GP

My fav 3.

Clio Cup at Silverstone short would be my #4 ;)

Oooh the BMW 320 T.5 is a lovely car! That would be my 3rd favourite

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 13:58
Thats not the first time he does that. Looks like thats one of his freetime activities. Dont think he knows that no one likes smartasses :(
And as he's a Project Cars 2 Gold Member, he apparently has nothing relevant to contribute to this thread other than to correct others. Sad.

Such threads are important, really. l remember Plato praising the game a few weeks back and now he got frustrated with it. Thats not the best indicator when fans actually turn against the game, the devs should take this very seriously. l'm slowly giving up faith as well.

I was the same, I used to defend this until it got too much.

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 14:03
Oooh the BMW 320 T.5 is a lovely car! That would be my 3rd favourite

I absolutely love how the engine/exhaust sounds. Plus when shifting gears. Just love that car!

nissan4ever
26-08-2015, 14:05
Thats not the first time he does that. Looks like thats one of his freetime activities. Dont think he knows that no one likes smartasses :(
And as he's a Project Cars 2 Gold Member, he apparently has nothing relevant to contribute to this thread other than to correct others. Sad

Like I said to wraithsrike, it's not that serious. People unfortunately reading to far into just letting him know he was off by 2 months with his time frame.

Funny, I'm called a smarty mouth, even though I gave accurate information. LOL

Oh, when I said "I win". I was referring to Danny Glover's line in the movie Shooter.

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 14:14
Funny, I'm called a smarty mouth, even though I gave accurate information. LOL

Isnt that what smartasses do? (Rethorical question)

Raven403
26-08-2015, 15:01
Thats not the first time he's done that. Looks like thats one of his freetime activities. Dont think he knows that no one likes smartasses :(
And as he's a Project Cars 2 Gold Member, he apparently has nothing relevant to contribute to this thread other than to correct others. Sad.

Such threads are important, really. l remember Plato praising the game a few weeks back and now he got frustrated with it. Thats not the best indicator when fans actually turn against the game, the devs should take this very seriously. l'm slowly losing faith as well.

Exactly, there are people on here who I know were NOT this hard on the game even a month ago. It seems even the die hards (except the select few who only play Quick race.) Are starting to lose patience, not good. I also notice a lot of new accounts that seem to be along the same lines. Hope that's not really true just seems that way.
3.0 on pc solves alot of the issues I had with the game and hope it translates to Xbox, and adds some stability to MP.

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 15:14
3.0 on pc solves alot of the issues I had with the game and hope it translates to Xbox, and adds some stability to MP.

Have you read reports from players that the patch solves these problems, or do you take this solely from the patch notes?

Raven403
26-08-2015, 15:15
Have you read reports that the patch solves these problems, or do you take this solely from the patch notes?

No I have it on PC

So I played it after 3.0 came out and enjoyed the new tire info system and pit strat stuff. I admit I didn't play hour and hours of it on pc after 3.0 but the few times I've played since have been fine.

OverHaased
26-08-2015, 15:16
To all the PAID Defenders;

stating that it would cost a million pounds to print one disc and test it on a retail console is complete and utter crap. It is completely false.

If they would just be honest and stand up and take ownership of the truth,... we would have nothing to talk about.

Speculations are not constructive. Silence is worse.



Anyone that owns this game and this console know fully well that 3 people sitting in a room with three consoles, three copies of the game would have started reporting bugs within 5 minutes, left alone for 8 hours they would have found at least 75% of the issues pre launch. To even suggest this level of testing was not possible is a complete insult to any rational human being. Common sense demand that I accept that this was done at the minimum, And done ten times over is still believable.


I accept that testing on XBox live would be near impossible so I will even forgive the MP and online issues. To a point, However three months in and it is still not corrected tells me the consumer that SMS havve shown they are not able to find a remedy, that the hundreds and hundreds of man hours that have passed still finds the game in its current state places our confidence in their abilities at a skeptical low in regards to expectations.


3 months and 19 days that is 14 weeks lets give them a simple 100 days, take off weekends that leaves 72 days, give them a full week off for vacation or sick time and we have 65 days or 520 hours on an 8 hour day. Now speculate how many people are tasked with this?? What is probable? I will say 3, 3 developers spent 1560 man hours working this, this is a conservative number. ONE THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED, AND SIXTY MAN HOURS Yet is still sits here with issues that existed from day of launch.


Maybe they need to hire a more qualified team, of course this is all speculation and that is not something any one at SMS wants me to do, I will never speculate again if we had one single human being tell us that in 100 working days they can't figure out what is wrong. Imagine that, an honest person stepping out in front and admitting that they are unable at this time to deliver what was promised.



FYI for all the math nazi's 1560 hours at a 200 pounds and hours would costs 312,000 pounds or less then a third of a million. how much do these engineers cost anyway?

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 15:16
No I have it on PC

Oh, well, l think we both know that its close to pointless to discuss cross platform issues and solutions :p

Raven403
26-08-2015, 15:18
Oh, well, l think we both know that its close to pointless to discuss cross platform issues and solutions :p

Yup lol. I'm not sayin there's no issues post 3.0 just that my time with it on pc was pretty good. Also it's ALWAYS been that way on PC. It's ALWAYS been a way better experience since day 1

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 15:21
To all the PAID Defenders;

stating that it would cost a million pounds to print one disc and test it on a retail console is complete and utter crap. It is completely false.

If they would just be honest and stand up and take ownership of the truth,... we would have nothing to talk about.

Speculations are not constructive. Silence is worse.



Anyone that owns this game and this console know fully well that 3 people sitting in a room with three consoles, three copies of the game would have started reporting bugs within 5 minutes, left alone for 8 hours they would have found at least 75% of the issues pre launch. To even suggest this level of testing was not possible is a complete insult to any rational human being. Common sense demand that I accept that this was done at the minimum, And done ten times over is still believable.


I accept that testing on XBox live would be near impossible so I will even forgive the MP and online issues. To a point, However three months in and it is still not corrected tells me the consumer that SMS havve shown they are not able to find a remedy, that the hundreds and hundreds of man hours that have passed still finds the game in its current state places our confidence in their abilities at a skeptical low in regards to expectations.


3 months and 19 days that is 14 weeks lets give them a simple 100 days, take off weekends that leaves 72 days, give them a full week off for vacation or sick time and we have 65 days or 520 hours on an 8 hour day. Now speculate how many people are tasked with this?? What is probable? I will say 3, 3 developers spent 1560 man hours working this, this is a conservative number. ONE THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED, AND SIXTY MAN HOURS Yet is still sits here with issues that existed from day of launch.


Maybe they need to hire a more qualified team, of course this is all speculation and that is not something any one at SMS wants me to do, I will never speculate again if we had one single human being tell us that in 100 working days they can't figure out what is wrong. Imagine that, an honest person stepping out in front and admitting that they are unable at this time to deliver what was promised.

Nail. Head.

But who said it would cost a million to print one disc? I said it out of sarcasm...

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 15:39
Now speculate how many people are tasked with this?? What is probable? I will say 3, 3 developers spent 1560 man hours working this, this is a conservative number. ONE THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED, AND SIXTY MAN HOURS Yet is still sits here with issues that existed from day of launch.

3 is a very low number, considering its a 120+ men/women strong team. At least thats what Ian once said...

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 15:42
3 is a very low number, considering its a 120+ men/women strong team. At least thats what Ian once said...

He seems like the type of person to over exaggerate. He comes across as very cocky and a bit of a peanut, given the outcome of one of his game studios (details can be found on wikipedia easily). Let's just say if I was in his position, being cocks is the last thing I'd be.

Could well be true though.

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 15:43
He seems like the type of person to over exaggerate. He comes across as very cocky and a bit of a peanut.

Wait, who?

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 15:44
Wait, who?

Ian.

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 15:47
Ian.

Oh, l have to disagree.
l think he's a very nice and polite guy with great patience.
That the Slightly Mad Studios have over 120 employees is actually true, though :)

So it would be surprising to me if only 3 of them tested the game...

BMWE87
26-08-2015, 15:50
Oh, l have to disagree.
l think he's a very nice and polite guy with great patience.
That the Slightly Mad Studios have over 120 employees is actually true, though :)

So it would be surprising to me if only 3 of them tested the game...

Agree to disagree.

And I stand corrected.

D1rty Duck UK
26-08-2015, 16:04
Oh, l have to disagree.
l think he's a very nice and polite guy with great patience.
That the Slightly Mad Studios have over 120 employees is actually true, though :)

So it would be surprising to me if only 3 of them tested the game...

Far from polite and great patience, most of the threads got out of hand because the way he acted. Its ok for him to call people names, make childish comments and post stupid video links which stir it up, but soon as one of the paying customers says anything against SMS it's infraction and ban time...

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 16:18
Far from polite and great patience, most of the threads got out of hand because the way he acted. Its ok for him to call people names, make childish comments and post stupid video links which stir it up, but soon as one of the paying customers says anything against SMS it's infraction and ban time...

Well, thats because its his forum, right?
Would you allow someone to call you and your family names in your house? Just wondering...

Schnizz58
26-08-2015, 16:21
Well, thats because its his forum, right?
Would you allow someone to call you and your family names in your house? Just wondering...
I wouldn't call them names either though. That said, I've got no problem with Ian but he does tend to stir things up beyond his ability to control sometimes.

OverHaased
26-08-2015, 16:21
My post and example using 3 Dev's was to reduce hyperbole and to demonstrate that we can understand to a point what time is involved from a cost/expense point of view as well as the sheer volume of time and amount of work that could, or should be done in this example. If SMS wants to say they had even more than my example,...well that further amplifies my assessment of their technical deficiencies.

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 16:38
I wouldn't call them names either though. That said, I've got no problem with Ian but he does tend to stir things up beyond his ability to control sometimes.

l guess he's only a human being with feelings and borders too.
And you know as well as me that there have been more than enough reasons for him and the team to lose their s***.
But in my opinion (and really only imo) he's done a good job in this forum. So has the team overall. Always helpful.

mkstatto
26-08-2015, 16:49
Getting slightly back to the topic in hand, its intensely frustrating to have the sound stuttering issue still present, with non obvious fix being worked on,as far as the forum is concerned. Personally it is a massive concentration breaker from a supposed simulation title, especially at the top end of the AI settings, consistency is the key and it throws me completely out. I have not attempted the 'supposed' workaround of altering how my Xbox powers on and have no plans too. I bought the Xbox as my one and only console and also run my TV through it and sits as the focal point of my living room. The lassie fair attitude to this issue after 3 months is quite disappointing.

Raven403
26-08-2015, 16:51
l guess he's only a human being with feelings and borders too.
And you know as well as me that there have been more than enough reasons for him and the team to lose their s***.
But in my opinion (and really only imo) he's done a good job in this forum. So has the team overall. Always helpful.

Yeah, but we had the discussion in the other thread and the New Start thread. When you set that kind of example as the Head of Studio, it sets the tone for not only how people talking back to you will do so, but how the rest of the people in the future will present their point of view. I dont want to get into the whole thing again and type it all out lol but ill post the thread link so you can see the discussion me and a few others had with Remco and Bealdor about that very topic.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?37087-Patch-3-0-And-the-wait-starts/page123 it spans a few pages

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 17:06
Getting slightly back to the topic in hand, its intensely frustrating to have the sound stuttering issue still present, with non obvious fix being worked on,as far as the forum is concerned. Personally it is a massive concentration breaker from a supposed simulation title, especially at the top end of the AI settings, consistency is the key and it throws me completely out. I have not attempted the 'supposed' workaround of altering how my Xbox powers on and have no plans too. I bought the Xbox as my one and only console and also run my TV through it and sits as the focal point of my living room. The lassie fair attitude to this issue after 3 months is quite disappointing.

Speaking of sound bugs.
Why not listen to these immersive examples of engine sounds while l was waiting for the session to end in an online lobby. l was actually laughing because l felt bad for the game.
It gets exceptionally crazy at around 30 seconds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soPI7jm-_HY

Raven403
26-08-2015, 17:07
Ohhh NO, IM sorry when it come to sounds, nothing beats the Ginetta GT3 car. Its horrendous. I cant bare to listen to it. It has to be bugged, it sounds like a bag of wrenches in a dryer.

Schnizz58
26-08-2015, 17:14
It was my understanding that the sound distortion problem (not the Ginetta, Raven) was an Xbox issue because it happens in other games using the 7th core. Of course some people here will want SMS to fix it anyway.

Raven403
26-08-2015, 17:15
It was my understanding that the sound distortion problem (not the Ginetta, Raven) was an Xbox issue because it happens in other games using the 7th core. Of course some people here will want SMS to fix it anyway.

Yup your right.

But the Ginetta should be addressed lol. Please for the love of my ears

Schnizz58
26-08-2015, 17:16
I'm going to have to try that car just for the lulz.

Pink_650S
26-08-2015, 17:20
It was my understanding that the sound distortion problem (not the Ginetta, Raven) was an Xbox issue because it happens in other games using the 7th core. Of course some people here will want SMS to fix it anyway.

Its clearly an issue on the PS4 as well and unbearable for my ears (as Raven would put it :p)

mkstatto
26-08-2015, 19:15
It was my understanding that the sound distortion problem (not the Ginetta, Raven) was an Xbox issue because it happens in other games using the 7th core. Of course some people here will want SMS to fix it anyway.

I'd happily accept toned down graphics in the face of dumping the sound processing into a 7th core the developers don't understand. I'd prefer an ugly game that is at least immersive and then tune up from there. Not the other way round which has seemed to happen since 2.0 (odd graphically glitches in the sky). Although my point does rest on how much help there processors are giving the graphics. At least with rfactor 2 on an extremely ropy laptop hdmi'd into my 42 inch TV I can happily lap consistently without loosing concentration.

Schnizz58
26-08-2015, 19:32
I'd happily accept toned down graphics in the face of dumping the sound processing into a 7th core the developers don't understand. I'd prefer an ugly game that is at least immersive and then tune up from there. Not the other way round which has seemed to happen since 2.0 (odd graphically glitches in the sky). Although my point does rest on how much help there processors are giving the graphics. At least with rfactor 2 on an extremely ropy laptop hdmi'd into my 42 inch TV I can happily lap consistently without loosing concentration.
There are several areas where a design decision was made that reduces the quality of game play but preserves either the physics or graphics. The one that immediately comes to mind is that the AI cars don't use the same physics model. I can easily understand why the decision was made. Running that complex of a model for a full grid of cars would never work on a console and might tax a PC pretty badly (might not even be possible). However the consequence of that is that the AI have to be manually tweaked in order to seem at all realistic. But it's impossible to tweak them perfectly for every condition and every track so the AI are very inconsistent in different conditions even at the same difficulty level. Another one is the AI headlights in mirrors. They're too dim and cars appear behind you seemingly out of nowhere in order to reduce the graphics processing load. I'm not saying they were wrong to do these things but the end result in every case is a better looking game rather than a better playing game.

Dynomight Motorsports
27-08-2015, 04:50
There are several areas where a design decision was made that reduces the quality of game play but preserves either the physics or graphics. The one that immediately comes to mind is that the AI cars don't use the same physics model. I can easily understand why the decision was made. Running that complex of a model for a full grid of cars would never work on a console and might tax a PC pretty badly (might not even be possible). However the consequence of that is that the AI have to be manually tweaked in order to seem at all realistic. But it's impossible to tweak them perfectly for every condition and every track so the AI are very inconsistent in different conditions even at the same difficulty level. Another one is the AI headlights in mirrors. They're too dim and cars appear behind you seemingly out of nowhere in order to reduce the graphics processing load. I'm not saying they were wrong to do these things but the end result in every case is a better looking game rather than a better playing game.
Grid Autosport pulled that same crap. They put so much into making the game look good on the inferior 360 console they didn't even bother putting rear-view mirrors in the game. Instead they focused on stuff like Helicopters flying in the air, birds, leaves, and Steve's porno shop while lapping at San Francisco. Believe it or not Dev's Graphics don't trump everything else. Sound is so important when racing, I can hear the tone of my engine on the exit of every corner and know if I making a good lap. The ability to look in my mirror and see the challenge of a competitor is also a nice thing to have..especially when in a Lower class car. I'd give up 60FPS just to have reliable sound, and a non-flickering sky. Maybe its because I came from Atari days where my car was just a 16 pixels and I had a joystick to drive it.

mkstatto
27-08-2015, 06:22
Grid Autosport pulled that same crap. They put so much into making the game look good on the inferior 360 console they didn't even bother putting rear-view mirrors in the game. Instead they focused on stuff like Helicopters flying in the air, birds, leaves, and Steve's porno shop while lapping at San Francisco. Believe it or not Dev's Graphics don't trump everything else. Sound is so important when racing, I can hear the tone of my engine on the exit of every corner and know if I making a good lap. The ability to look in my mirror and see the challenge of a competitor is also a nice thing to have..especially when in a Lower class car. I'd give up 60FPS just to have reliable sound, and a non-flickering sky. Maybe its because I came from Atari days where my car was just a 16 pixels and I had a joystick to drive it.

My rfactor 2 example earlier, only gets about 20 fps and I will happily lap consistently all day long.