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hugopro4
03-09-2015, 16:57
It would be realy nice beeing able to drive into the pit manually and having a bind for pit limiter. Will this be implemented in this game or maybe PC2? :)

Angst1974
03-09-2015, 17:03
no, needs to keep the PEGI 3 rating

hugopro4
03-09-2015, 17:35
ok if thats realy why they wont implement it, im asking myself what the avereage age of a player is in PC :D

flymar
03-09-2015, 17:58
Most of them have kids that could accidentally watch you drove over a pit guy. That's why he have those +5 car defence shield in front of him.
PEGI sux. I wish there were uncut 18+ edition with 3 hours more gameplay, 3d behind the scenes video and commentary from Peter Jacks..... I mean Ian Bell.
:)

fideco
03-09-2015, 20:59
As said in other post, it's more important and nice for me drive into the pit after the end of te race like superb driving simulators like GT2 and Rfactor.
Now, the sudden death after the finish line is really an arcade and foolish thing.
I really do not know because devs cut the scene...
I need more immersion..
But certainly i will not be heard

Mahjik
03-09-2015, 22:31
But certainly i will not be heard

Just because the devs may choose not to do something you really want, doesn't mean they don't "hear you".

menos
04-09-2015, 02:14
no, needs to keep the PEGI 3 rating

Is this really the reason immersion is this severely cut?
:confused:

I was always under the impression that due to the unfinished current status of pit functionality in general we have this current implementation of magically taken over car controls.
There clearly would be better solutions than taking away control from the user, such as removing pit personal or even better, animating pit personal and have them jump out of the way (see the currently in development Dirt Rally, where this works beautifully).
Driving "outside of proper guidelines" within the pits can also be punished (from screen going black with taking car control from player for a certain time to conventional time punishments).

There really are more reasonable ways to prevent illogical player behavior from ruining immersion.

SUBGTRACER
04-09-2015, 02:35
^ I would say you are right .

NuclearPenguin
04-09-2015, 02:36
If it's because the rating, couldn't they just make it so you drive through the pit people but if that happens you get disqualified so you cant ignore them?

hkraft300
04-09-2015, 02:49
I've blasted in the pit lane where my box was near the start and the lollipop man stayed back, then had a peek over my car to see if the coast was clear, then got in front of my car haha loved it! Made me laugh. Wish I recorded it.
But if the player is in control of the car in the pit lane, how do you adjust pit strategy etc? Voice control or sort it out pre-race...? I dunno. We don't have voice recognition and Engineer Ben is a twat anyway I don't trust him much :p

SUBGTRACER
04-09-2015, 02:53
I've blasted in the pit lane where my box was near the start and the lollipop man stayed back, then had a peek over my car to see if the coast was clear, then got in front of my car haha loved it! Made me laugh. Wish I recorded it.
But if the player is in control of the car in the pit lane, how do you adjust pit strategy etc? Voice control or sort it out pre-race...? I dunno. We don't have voice recognition and Engineer Ben is a twat anyway I don't trust him much :p
I can't even hear the twat through head phones , that still doesn't work :)

hkraft300
04-09-2015, 02:59
God knows I could hear him just fine Subgtracer. Last night he wouldn't shut the f up about my brakes being a little toasty every time it reached 1000c (in an F1 car at Monza so who cares right)
But Wednesday night's rain race - you think he said a word about the weather forecast? Off at the pub sinking beers he was I bet!

Ps I initially could only hear him through my controller but had a play with settings now it all goes to my headphones. I was regretting that move last night lol

ONT
04-09-2015, 03:37
Ditch the plan for animated pit crew and automated driving, go for the iRacing style manual pit stop IMHO :)

fideco
04-09-2015, 04:41
Just because the devs may choose not to do something you really want, doesn't mean they don't "hear you".
You are correct...
Sorry, English is not my native language and sometimes i'm not able to use the most appropriate words.

mute71
04-09-2015, 05:17
I would love if pcars was about racing, not animation. I dont care about animated pitcrew. Cant see how they enhance anything when i cant drive. Do it like iracing.

:)

robdok
04-09-2015, 05:39
You can turn the limiter before Pitstop and off Pitstop. I do not need to have control over the car in Pitstop. This feature will increase the realism of the game. The entrance at full throttle for Pitstop is 100% Arcade!

F1Aussie
04-09-2015, 05:49
no, needs to keep the PEGI 3 rating

WTF, is this for real? That is a bit over the top!! Then again we do now live in a cotton wool society.

flymar
04-09-2015, 06:14
Is this really the reason immersion is this severely cut?
:confused:

Yes. Ian wrote about it in this forum.

tigerpaw11
04-09-2015, 06:14
I would love to have manual control in the pits as it adds an extra dimension to the simulation but i can imagine the mayhem it would be in public lobbies - a rammers paradise.

Chunsey Wang
04-09-2015, 07:27
I would like control in the pits,but only if we had drive through and stop and go penalties otherwise manual control in the pits is just another way for people to cheat.

I'm not that fussed about animated pit crews,can take or leave that,as I imagine it would b a lot of time and effort that could b used in a different area

menos
04-09-2015, 07:52
Yes. Ian wrote about it in this forum.

Is is truly, truly sad :-(


I've blasted in the pit lane where my box was near the start and the lollipop man stayed back, then had a peek over my car to see if the coast was clear, then got in front of my car haha loved it! Made me laugh. Wish I recorded it.
But if the player is in control of the car in the pit lane, how do you adjust pit strategy etc? Voice control or sort it out pre-race...? I dunno. We don't have voice recognition and Engineer Ben is a twat anyway I don't trust him much :p
Every pit stop costs a certain amount of time to complete from actual stop to removing the lollipop in front of you.
Every pitstop does cost an absolute minimum amount of time should you come in for the absolute minimum of work needed on your car.

During that very minimum time you can navigate a slickly designed pit menu with the help of just 4 directional buttons and the throttle + brake pedals (better to use these two logical controls than mapping additional extra buttons for this).

Should you need longer time spending with that menu system than the actual needed work needs to be finished - you simply are stuck that much longer in the pits.
The key here is an absolutely minimalistic and idiot proof pit menu system that is swiftly worked on with just 4 directional buttons and confirmed or unconfirmed at once with the pedals.

The recent crop of racing simulations I have used the last few years got these pit menus a bit tacky - truly overcomplicating them to the tune that you get stuck or spend too much time or worse - make wrong settings and leave with too little fuel or a wrong set of tires.

You press the "pit button" on your steering wheel, bringing up a very simple and fast pit menu at any time you want it to make any changes to the next upcoming pitstop, which will automatically save should you leave it, pressing the same pit button again.

You enter the pitlane and the work you programmed is properly done in the appropriate time.

Pitlane features as speed traps (stationary and radar pistol), pitlane crossing engineers/ crew chiefs, proper pit boards, fire crews, photographers/ TV crews, queues, mishaps, fires, loose tires, lollipop men, windshield cleaning, team mates waiting with their seat insert and drink bottle, mechanics, air guns, … are all featured and nicely animated and simulated.
If this is resource expensive, severely crop the visibility range to just the pitlane (no need to see two km ahead traffic on the track and track features while being busy in the pitlane and enjoying the circus around you).

A really great feature to massively save resources for this is an idea that just pops through my mind:
- don't expensively animate all these characters and the work in the pitlane but just instead beautifully draw them on "cardboard popsicles" simulatedly moving around the busy pitlane as placeholder.

If this is done tastefully with great artwork - I would massively prefer this over any flimsy three heavily 3D animated and shaded mechanics, changing tires with wooden movements.
We need the pitlane immersion and atmosphere that comes with sound and the illusion of a lot of people moving around and going about their business in the pits - if needed even in nicely done 2D.

flymar
04-09-2015, 08:28
- don't expensively animate all these characters and the work in the pitlane but just instead beautifully draw them on "cardboard popsicles" simulatedly moving around the busy pitlane as placeholder. I understand the idea and I even may agree with it:) But when you read in review that the graphics is so bad because it has billboard crowd imagine whet they will wrote about billboard pit crew just in front of the car.

N0body Of The Goat
04-09-2015, 08:39
I'm not that bothered about having full control in the pits.

But I would love to have to manually brake the car for my box and the worse my positioning is, the more time is lost before my pit crew can work on the car. :)

Oh and manually braking to pit lane speed limit, a fail means a penalty... Currently you can enter pits speeding when control given to autopilot and get no penalty. ;)

hkraft300
04-09-2015, 11:05
Ye full speed blasting into pits is a bit tasteless - easily solved by making the autopilot trigger before the pit lane speed limit zone.
I'm not fussed about controlling the car in the pit lane - I'd rather be adjusting fuel and tire choice. Right now, no work commences on the car until the pit menu is closed. Which I'm fine with.
Even if it's not a fully animated and perfectly implemented pit crew - individual sequences for different cars etc... I'd at least like some marshals, TV crew, and other mechanics wandering about pit lane. the crowd and marshals are in the game - pop a few of them in the pit lane. A few extra toolboxes and such in the garage. Give the pit lane a little more atmosphere, you know? Nothing fancy :)

Ps 2D characters in 2015? Please... :p

AB_Attack
04-09-2015, 21:56
I would like to control the car and limit in pitstops. Pulling control out of the hands of the player breaks immersion for sure. But what's more important is to get to drive victory lap and parade lap. And that can't be difficult to fix.

Beatminister
04-09-2015, 23:43
Most of them have kids that could accidentally watch you drove over a pit guy. That's why he have those +5 car defence shield in front of him.
PEGI sux. I wish there were uncut 18+ edition with 3 hours more gameplay, 3d behind the scenes video and commentary from Peter Jacks..... I mean Ian Bell.
:)

You got to be kiddin'. I hope.
We cant keep the guy with the jack anyway, in a manual pitstop mode. It needs to be one waving a sign with the car #, at least. Else, you cant find your pit, between the others. And if they are not supposed to be run over, simply make them jump to the side before they can be hit.

tclancey
05-09-2015, 13:21
Hmm, Pegi? There have been many times the AI has driven out of a pit box straight through someone else's pit bloke.

ONT
05-09-2015, 13:31
I would love to have manual control in the pits as it adds an extra dimension to the simulation but i can imagine the mayhem it would be in public lobbies - a rammers paradise.

iRacing solved this problem by "ghosting" all cars in pit area, You can't wreck anyone, works brilliant :)

There can still be an OPTION for animations/automated driving if that is what sell on the console side of things.

J4M35_R
05-09-2015, 13:32
I think I remember driving manually in the pit lane in F1 2010.

Chiraq
05-09-2015, 14:08
You can turn the limiter before Pitstop and off Pitstop. I do not need to have control over the car in Pitstop. This feature will increase the realism of the game. The entrance at full throttle for Pitstop is 100% Arcade!

You're right there should be a penalty for speeding into the pits like that!

bmanic
05-09-2015, 18:22
iRacing solved this problem by "ghosting" all cars in pit area, You can't wreck anyone, works brilliant :)

There can still be an OPTION for animations/automated driving if that is what sell on the console side of things.

Agreed. This is how it should have been done.

tigerpaw11
05-09-2015, 19:09
iRacing solved this problem by "ghosting" all cars in pit area, You can't wreck anyone, works brilliant :)

There can still be an OPTION for animations/automated driving if that is what sell on the console side of things.

That is a brilliant idea, and a very simple solution to up the simulation.

flymar
05-09-2015, 19:48
You got to be kiddin'. I hope.
We cant keep the guy with the jack anyway, in a manual pitstop mode. It needs to be one waving a sign with the car #, at least. Else, you cant find your pit, between the others. And if they are not supposed to be run over, simply make them jump to the side before they can be hit.Believe me I would be very happy to see full pit crews and fully manual pit enter exit. Make them ghosts of concrete solid. But if the PEGI 3 doesn't allow it... well. One could hope.

TMoney
05-09-2015, 20:47
Jeez I just cringe every time this discussion comes up. Just about every single person who bought this game wants manual pit control. Ghosts would be perfectly fine as it's been proven in iRacing. It's like SMS just don't wanna listen to us, what the players, people who buy the game really want.

Ian once said something like doing ghosts would look silly. That just can't be serious. If that's really what he believes that's fine, but the people who actually buy the game (where the revenue comes from) think otherwise. This is supposed to be "community assisted" so I don't see why our opinions and wishes aren't making a difference here.

If I had to vote, scrap fully animated pit crew if needed (we can do with a lollipop guy and your crew just standing by), use those resources on something that will actually make a difference in the game, give back manual pit control and ghost the damn people in pit lane. It even seems easier to do than the completely bugged race ruining auto pit.

ONT
06-09-2015, 00:36
Jeez I just cringe every time this discussion comes up. Just about every single person who bought this game wants manual pit control. Ghosts would be perfectly fine as it's been proven in iRacing. It's like SMS just don't wanna listen to us, what the players, people who buy the game really want.

Ian once said something like doing ghosts would look silly. That just can't be serious. If that's really what he believes that's fine, but the people who actually buy the game (where the revenue comes from) think otherwise. This is supposed to be "community assisted" so I don't see why our opinions and wishes aren't making a difference here.

If I had to vote, scrap fully animated pit crew if needed (we can do with a lollipop guy and your crew just standing by), use those resources on something that will actually make a difference in the game, give back manual pit control and ghost the damn people in pit lane. It even seems easier to do than the completely bugged race ruining auto pit.

Lol, a little harsh but yeah :)

If there is a will there is a way, manual pit stops FTW.

menos
06-09-2015, 00:37
I would hate to see ghosts.
It is bad enough we have these ridiculous ghosted moments already when entering, exiting the pitlane.
I always have a WTF moment when just a few meters before the pitlane wall starts an AI opponent cuts straight from all the way over the track THROUGH ME into the pitlane (crossing the white line of course).
The same thing happens when exiting the pits with cars happily morphing through each other.

Ghosting is the second cheapest easy way out instead of fixing inherited difficulties to solve the actual undying challenges.

I hate ghosting - it has no place in simulations (remember, mimicking reality like in trying to keep things real).


I do not understand why there is no user control in the pitlane at all. You don't need animated pit crews for that. Animated pit crews and all the jingles are just icing on the cake - not practically needed.
Not having control in the pitlane is like having automatic transmissions enforced on all cars though.

lacslyer
06-09-2015, 01:02
I hate ghosting - it has no place in simulations (remember, mimicking reality like in trying to keep things real).[/B]

I disagree, as others have said it works very well in iRacing and it's implemented for good reason. Ghosting may be immersion breaking, but it's without a doubt one of the best ways to deal with pit lanes in multiplayer.

menos
06-09-2015, 12:24
I disagree, as others have said it works very well in iRacing and it's implemented for good reason. Ghosting may be immersion breaking, but it's without a doubt one of the best ways to deal with pit lanes in multiplayer.

It is a compromise.
It does work well in multiplayer as there are no issues with humans having to be aware of their surroundings, no issues with lag, no issues with collision, etc …

It does indeed break immersion (my main concern about ghosting) and it does take away some of the very most interesting drama that will happen during pitstops.

What is with all the millimeter work with position changes INSIDE the pitlane area - the drama of loosing or gaining a position when just in time getting the pit work finished, …?

I rather have no pitstops at all or the current unfortunate valet parking than ghosted "nothing can happen to you children" compromise.

To me racing simulations are first and foremost intended to be simulations - I do not treat them as a separate e-sport or pure entertainment.
I take my pleasure in achieving something on a virtual racetrack in a virtual racing car as close as it is technical possible to the real thing - this is important to me.

As we had already beautiful examples in racing simulations where these pit stop features have been working beautifully already - steps back and compromises are not cutting it for me.
There should be progress after all (It is not just about high poly counts, shiny reflections and particle rendering, but it's about RACING).

lacslyer
06-09-2015, 13:21
I can respect that, but in that case I would question whether having no control in the pit is more realistic than having control but having the other cars being ghosted. It's a subjective thing, but I would highly prefer having pit control regardless of the limitations rather than no control at all.

I do agree completely though that progress should be made with development of games when it can be done without severe detriment to the game itself. At times too much focus is spent on the aspect of mass appeal or features that are relatively irrelevant to sim racers. The genre is already too much of a niche and losing features or standards that other games have previously had is not something that should continue.

Tomcul
06-09-2015, 13:29
Just ghost the people in the pitlane not the cars so bumps can still happen.. Serious players won't hit the pit crew anyway so we won't notice they're ghosted..

Dmitry Afanasyev
06-09-2015, 14:37
Push this idea guys :) But please don't be rude

If ghosted mechanics are compatible with PEGI-3 then it would be pretty nice decision. Choosing between two options "mechanics/auto pit" and "empty pitlane/manual pit" in menu also would be fine. Can someone add a poll to this thread please so we could see what most people think?

Desopit
06-09-2015, 19:52
The pits would be much better with a few things, which I don't think are impossible to do.

The auto pilot should only take over at the official speed limit lines. Which will allow us to enter the pits and leave the pits in a better way. If when the auto pilot takes over, we are not under a certain speed, we get a penalty (drive through, 1, 2, 3 times and 4th time is DQ). I believe a lot of people would be happy with this.
Because at Spa for instance, when leaving the pits, the end of speed limit is before the corner, it would be nice if we could take the corner ourselves. At Zolder, we are losing a lot of time when leaving the pits (i know, everyone is loving the same time... But still).

I'm not asking for pit crews, they will come when they are ready. But putting the engineers on the pitwall would be great. They don't need to move. If the chairs are not empty, it would be great, and add immersion (for the one like me who like to take pictures) if they don't move, they can be considered as the pitwall, and won't take any resources (am I correct?).
This means that the computer screens of the engineers must show some data as well. They can't stay black.

Sasquatch
06-09-2015, 20:36
I want this dearly as well. Just make people map a "pit speed limiter", like above post. 4th speeding pit violation is a DSQ. Keep the markers for manual control there as a point which you can release the limiter without receiving a penalty. Done and done.

AB_Attack
08-09-2015, 13:19
Believe me I would be very happy to see full pit crews and fully manual pit enter exit. Make them ghosts of concrete solid. But if the PEGI 3 doesn't allow it... well. One could hope.
Would PEGI 3 not allow ghosting? What is the rule then I wonder?


I would hate to see ghosts.
It is bad enough we have these ridiculous ghosted moments already when entering, exiting the pitlane.
I always have a WTF moment when just a few meters before the pitlane wall starts an AI opponent cuts straight from all the way over the track THROUGH ME into the pitlane (crossing the white line of course).
The same thing happens when exiting the pits with cars happily morphing through each other.

Ghosting is the second cheapest easy way out instead of fixing inherited difficulties to solve the actual undying challenges.

I hate ghosting - it has no place in simulations (remember, mimicking reality like in trying to keep things real).


I do not understand why there is no user control in the pitlane at all. You don't need animated pit crews for that. Animated pit crews and all the jingles are just icing on the cake - not practically needed.
Not having control in the pitlane is like having automatic transmissions enforced on all cars though.
I agree. But if it's ghosting for manual control or no Control, I'll have ghosts.

Why not simply remove lollipop man then, so there are no people to run over? Race 07 had manual pitstops without crew and it worked fine. Pitstops are more a thing of League racing or single player than random online anyway, and in Leagues people care about rules so there is no issue.

In either case I think of the "wreckers blocking pitlane" is mostly a theoretical problem. It might happen now and then but that's no worse than what goes on on-track. Even the wreckers rather drive a car then just sit still.


4th speeding pit violation is a DSQ
Four of them? As I remember it, it was drive through or stop n go penalty for first violation in Race 07 and then DQ. As long as there is a penalty attached to speeding in pitlane.


Choosing between two options "mechanics/auto pit" and "empty pitlane/manual pit" in menu also would be fine.
This. I like this idea over ghosting.

Andy Jackson
08-09-2015, 15:06
I just want was advertised in the official game video's and promised to the backers. A full pit crew. The imersion factor seeing cars entering and exiting the pits is brilliant in other race sims. Even GTR 2 had pit crews. The Codemasters pit style would be fine by me too. Or the AC style.

BorisK
13-11-2015, 10:33
Push this idea guys :) But please don't be rude

If ghosted mechanics are compatible with PEGI-3 then it would be pretty nice decision. Choosing between two options "mechanics/auto pit" and "empty pitlane/manual pit" in menu also would be fine. Can someone add a poll to this thread please so we could see what most people think?

Agree, why not?


I do not understand why there is no user control in the pitlane at all. You don't need animated pit crews for that. Animated pit crews and all the jingles are just icing on the cake - not practically needed.
Not having control in the pitlane is like having automatic transmissions enforced on all cars though.

Agree. If PC is simulator - it must be simulator in all aspects relating to driving and procedures.