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Haiden
11-08-2016, 12:15
I think your mad for going straight to pcars?
Using that GTX1080 with that i7 any game you want should look dam fine.

Not really. If I started with a new game, how would I judge the difference between console and PC? :)

I downloaded AC. It's good, and definitely blows the console version of PCars away. But I think you need to get PCars on PC. Don't let your console experience jade you. The PC version is nothing like the console version. Better graphics and WAY better FFB. IMO, there's very little difference in FFB (overall) between AC and PCars. They're just using different models. PCars has no canned effects, which gives it a very visceral feel. AC has very polished and refined canned effects. IMO, neither is better. They're just different, which is good. If they were the same, then owning both would have less value.

But I'm telling you. PCars on PC is so different. I haven't experienced any of the annoying little bugs I had on console. They might be there, but they aren't as prevalent, not do they occur as much. And if they do, they'll be far less irritating, because it only takes like 5 seconds for the game to load...LOL

I'm running both games at ultra, everything cranked to the max. It's smooth as butter. I haven't seen the frame rate on PCars, because they don't have a monitor (or at least I haven't see one), but with ultra settings on AC, I ran the benchmark and let it run for a while. I'm getting an average 110 fps, with peaks in the 120s on straights, and 130s with less cars on the track. F'ing butter. :cool:

What's your Steam ID?

morpwr
11-08-2016, 12:20
Changing RAB from .08 to .10 made a world of difference for me. The v3.0 settings are f'ing brilliant! Thanks Jack!

Yeah I just jumped in last night and made a big change to rab to see and immediately went yep this is the problem. It seems rab values are very important to get the right feel at this point. Even one number makes a noticeable change in feel. Funny we are both at the same setting now. Other then scoop values at this point the settings seem to be pretty universal other then a few wheel specific things like wps,ddr,etc which would make it much easier for someone just coming in.

Jack Spade
11-08-2016, 12:27
Changing RAB from .08 to .10 made a world of difference for me. The v3.0 settings are f'ing brilliant! Thanks Jack!

So you are on PC now with that? If so you perhaps can shed a light upon the old FFB master 100% issue also any other PS4/PC FFB differences.

Jack Spade
11-08-2016, 13:50
Jack Spade are you Really still using FW 116 in your V2:confused: if so i suggest you update the V2 FW has Really come a long way and is Much Better:yes:

No, Iīm on Fanatecīs latest update just have not updated my signature.

Edit: done now

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 14:02
So you are on PC now with that? If so you perhaps can shed a light upon the old FFB master 100% issue also any other PS4/PC FFB differences.

I thought that Old Master 100% issue had been figured out:confused:

PC Has a FFB Limiter in the control panel so it Totally Negates/ Overides the Game Master FFB 100%...

GM FFB 100 ---> Device Control Panel FFB 75 = Output to the wheel 75

Console is Ruled By the GM FFB only...100% is just Too Strong... This is also Very Tweek dependent... Low TF, RAG, RAC can be adjusted accordingly to make GM FFB 100 useable... Except in the Case your using a Fanatec wheel... With Fanatec wheel the GM FFB can be set to 100 because the on Wheel FFB setting acts like the PC Device Control Panel and over rides the GM FFB

Jack Spade
11-08-2016, 14:34
I thought that Old Master 100% issue had been figured out:confused:

PC Has a FFB Limiter in the control panel so it Totally Negates/ Overides the Game Master FFB 100%...

GM FFB 100 ---> Device Control Panel FFB 75 = Output to the wheel 75

Console is Ruled By the GM FFB only...100% is just Too Strong... This is also Very Tweek dependent... Low TF, RAG, RAC can be adjusted accordingly to make GM FFB 100 useable... Except in the Case your using a Fanatec wheel... With Fanatec wheel the GM FFB can be set to 100 because the on Wheel FFB setting acts like the PC Device Control Panel and over rides the GM FFB

What makes you think that? There is no limiter and nothing overrides that master on PC, itīs two of the same but independent....FFB master in game and FF on the wheel (Fanatec)
None of it really needed as just the dynamic range gets reduced on the wheel and the deadzone increased if below 100%. TF, SG and Scales are more than enough to adjust
appropriate levels without the loss of anything. The question is, is it really any different on consoles? ....almost forgot, FOR on CSWīs an other global thing to mess with.

BigDad
11-08-2016, 14:53
Not really. If I started with a new game, how would I judge the difference between console and PC? :)

I downloaded AC. It's good, and definitely blows the console version of PCars away. But I think you need to get PCars on PC. Don't let your console experience jade you. The PC version is nothing like the console version. Better graphics and WAY better FFB. IMO, there's very little difference in FFB (overall) between AC and PCars. They're just using different models. PCars has no canned effects, which gives it a very visceral feel. AC has very polished and refined canned effects. IMO, neither is better. They're just different, which is good. If they were the same, then owning both would have less value.

But I'm telling you. PCars on PC is so different. I haven't experienced any of the annoying little bugs I had on console. They might be there, but they aren't as prevalent, not do they occur as much. And if they do, they'll be far less irritating, because it only takes like 5 seconds for the game to load...LOL

I'm running both games at ultra, everything cranked to the max. It's smooth as butter. I haven't seen the frame rate on PCars, because they don't have a monitor (or at least I haven't see one), but with ultra settings on AC, I ran the benchmark and let it run for a while. I'm getting an average 110 fps, with peaks in the 120s on straights, and 130s with less cars on the track. F'ing butter. :cool:

What's your Steam ID?

Steam ID : 2ndlastjedi
Are you running both games in 4K ? if so how do they compare and what fps are you getting for pCars ? with ultra everything because my GTX1060 very nearly
maxes out 4K everything @60fps which is all my tv can handle . 3840x2160 60p and using fast sync to totally remove any screen tearing .
i added some mods last night , some of them are pretty bad even after reading reviews from other users . Paul Richard is probably the stand out track so far . Longford is a definite no go , it puts huge loads on your cpu and i was getting a 99%occupancy warning appearing in game .uninstalled asap .

Haiden
11-08-2016, 15:19
So you are on PC now with that? If so you perhaps can shed a light upon the old FFB master 100% issue also any other PS4/PC FFB differences.

Yep. I just got everything set up last night. :) Love it!

If you mean the negativity about running FF=100, I think it's totally misplaced. I've been running FF=100 for the longest on my CSW-v2 with TF=75, RAG=1.50, and RAC=90. I've had zero problems, and my wheel doesn't run hot. Before my CSW, I was running FF/TF at 100/65 on my T300 and TX with no trouble--both wheels are still in perfect working order. IMO, I get a higher degree of fidelity with FF=100, than I do when I lower FF and run higher TF values. But, to each his own. :confused:

I think the negative backlash against FF=100 was simply due to a lot of people, early on--especially console users--running settings that were way too high. They had FF, TF, and their Master Scales cranked and burned out their hardware. The scale descriptions in the game make it seem like TF is more important than FF for fidelity, but it's not. It's a symbiotic relationship. I or my terminology may be wrong, but, IMO, TF determines how much of the various forces you feel (the calculation) and FF determines how strongly you feel them. So basically, lowering FF can cause some of the lower end forces that TF is generating/calculating to fall into an undetectable range that you can't sense/feel. They're still there. And they still show in telemetry, but they're too weak to actually feel. Again, a simple misunderstanding of the telemetry window. Just because the line/signal is fluctuating, doesn't mean you can actually feel the output. :) Just like an audio signal. You can tune the crap out of your EQ, but the lower you turn the volume down, the less detail you're ears are able to hear. The detail is still there, a well polished/tuned signal, you just can't hear enough of it to fully appreciate what's going on.

As far as the differences between PS4 and PC. The graphics are better, but I wouldn't say shockingly so. I'm running a GTX1080 and have everything max'd out. On some tracks, like the Nords, the differences are more noticeable than others, especially if you're driving in the late afternoon. The shadows and reflections on PC do blow console away, though. Same goes for rain effects. The drops behave a lot differently on PC and look way more natural. The loads times are way faster on PC, and the GUI itself is so much easier to navigate. On console, it was a pain in the butt to scroll through the track and car lists, but the same list on PC is breeze, because of the mouse scroll. I think SMS designed the GUI for PC, not realizing some elements might be a little cumbersome to navigate with analog sticks.

I think the FFB is where the PC version really shines, though. It's so much smoother and nuanced than console, giving me a level of car control that basically makes it feel like a different game. I can push the car a lot harder now. And I've caught a few spins that I know I would have never recovered from on console. And I'm not talk about little slips. I mean, losing it, sliding off track out of control, and being able to regain control and direction before smacking the wall kind of recoveries. :) Also, I might be crazy, or maybe it's the fact that I have better control of the car, but I think the AI is better. It's the same AI behavior, but they seem to be thinking and reacting faster, which makes them seem more intuitive. On console, if you aren't alongside the AI before you reach the braking zone, you get no respect. They'll turn into you, like you weren't even there. But on PC, I've noticed the AI leaving me room even when I'm only barely alongside his rear bumper. Again, I'm only about 4 hours into my PC experience, but the wheel to wheel action I was getting was impressive, compared to what I was used to on console. My guess is, it's the same behavioral algorithms, but, like load times, PC CPUs are able to process them faster. It's basically the same principle that allows PCs to have more cars on the grid. If true, then it would mean, the slower your PC, the less intuitive the AI will seem.

PC also seems more stable. Like I said, I'm only about 4-5 hours into the experience. But in 4-5 hours on console, was usually more than enough time to run into something.

All in all. The experience on PS4 was solid and a lot of fun and definitley the best I've ever had on console. Despite the intermittent glitches, I have yet to find anything else on console that comes close.

Haiden
11-08-2016, 15:30
Steam ID : 2ndlastjedi
Are you running both games in 4K ? if so how do they compare and what fps are you getting for pCars ? with ultra everything because my GTX1060 very nearly
maxes out 4K everything @60fps which is all my tv can handle . 3840x2160 60p and using fast sync to totally remove any screen tearing .
i added some mods last night , some of them are pretty bad even after reading reviews from other users . Paul Richard is probably the stand out track so far . Longford is a definite no go , it puts huge loads on your cpu and i was getting a 99%occupancy warning appearing in game .uninstalled asap .

No. I haven't upgraded the screen yet, so it's just HD. That's the next thing on the list. :) I did, however, play with the GPU settings and tried the one that increases the number of frames rendered and then downsizes it for the screen's native resolution. I doubled the frames, and it was still running smoothly. If you haven't, make sure you adjust your GPU to run in "Single Screen" performance mode. Mine was running in Multi-screen mode by default.

I checked the benchmarks for the 1080, though, before I bought it. It's definitely capable of running 90+ fps at 4K. In fact, the GTX1070 would have been cheaper, and totally capable of running PCars, but, on average, it's benchamarks were 20-30 fps less than the 1080 at 4K Ultra settings. For the most part, it stayed about 60 fps, but the 1070 definitely fell below it a few times. I don't think I saw it drop below 54 fps, though. Still, 60 is the minimum for racing. And 90+ runs like butter.

I'll send you a friend request later tonight.

Oh, also... I was wrong about AC's FOV. I think it's fine. It looks like they just designed it with the assumption that users would have their screens mounted closer. If my screen was actually mounted to my rig, the FOV would be totally fine.

Edit: One thing though... What the hell was Kunos thinking not adding a brake pressure setting in the car setup? That's a little f'ing annoying. The CSW-v2 has it own brake pressure setting, but I'm not sure I'll be able to use that once I plug the pedals in directly. :(

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 15:36
What makes you think that? There is no limiter and nothing overrides that master on PC, itīs two of the same but independent....FFB master in game and FF on the wheel (Fanatec)
None of it really needed as just the dynamic range gets reduced on the wheel and the deadzone increased if below 100%. TF, SG and Scales are more than enough to adjust
appropriate levels without the loss of anything. The question is, is it really any different on consoles? ....almost forgot, FOR on CSWīs an other global thing to mess with.

On PC its a redundant setting GM FFB is Not Needed for Console GM FFB is the equvilant of the PC Device control pannel...There is Nothing to debate on this Matter... I thought that this was Clearly understood a while ago.

Also Reducing TF, RAC there is No Dynamic Range Loss but IMO from my testing on Console Reducing Steering Gain you Lose Dynamic Range

Yes i am aware of the FOR setting on CSW wheels... That setting should only be used when the game has Very weak/Low out put of FFB Forces... This is Clearly Not the case with Pcars... If your Pcars settings are Balanced correctly you will Never ever have to use this setting which is also the case with Most Current FFB Games...Maybe the FOR setting may Need to be used with older games... I Have and play a few older games Rfactor, Race 07 etc and even that does Not require the FOR to be + or -.

BTW FOR as per Fanatec setting is used to + or - FFB effects only with out increasing the Total Strength of the Wheel... EX it should Not add extra wheel weight but it will / Should bring out More Bump Curb Road feel.

Edit: Fanatec on Wheel FFB over rides GM FFB on PS4 only... it acts same as the PC Device control pannel... Thats the best i can explain it.

On PC the GM FFB is Negated by the Device Control pannel setting... GM FFB 100 --->Device Control Pannel 75= output to wheel 75

Edit: Congrats but also im Not suprised at all that your tweek users say that the New tweek Give More Detailed FFB...The Basics of your tweek is still the same... The Big Difference is you Raised the Masters:yes: The rest was just Mix + or - Fy,Fx,Fz,Mz, SOP until it felt right:yes:

IMO as i have stated all along when you use Low Masters you are Cutting your FFB Dynamic Range at the Source then trying to amplify the Low FFB signal with Higher RAG/SG... Which it Does but you have still lost the purity of the FFB signals Dynamic Range at the Source--->In Car FFB settings... the intuitive system value is 1.00 and anything 1.00+ Is overdrive IIRC. This was the basis why i kept My tweek settings at 1.00 or below.

Roger Prynne
11-08-2016, 15:43
Yep. I just got everything set up last night. :) Love it!

If you mean the negativity about running FF=100, I think it's totally misplaced. I've been running FF=100 for the longest on my CSW-v2 with TF=75, RAG=1.50, and RAC=90. I've had zero problems, and my wheel doesn't run hot. Before my CSW, I was running FF/TF at 100/65 on my T300 and TX with no trouble--both wheels are still in perfect working order. IMO, I get a higher degree of fidelity with FF=100, than I do when I lower FF and run higher TF values. But, to each his own. :confused:

I think the negative backlash against FF=100 was simply due to a lot of people, early on--especially console users--running settings that were way too high. They had FF, TF, and their Master Scales cranked and burned out their hardware. The scale descriptions in the game make it seem like TF is more important than FF for fidelity, but it's not. It's a symbiotic relationship. I or my terminology may be wrong, but, IMO, TF determines how much of the various forces you feel (the calculation) and FF determines how strongly you feel them. So basically, lowering FF can cause some of the lower end forces that TF is generating/calculating to fall into an undetectable range that you can't sense/feel. They're still there. And they still show in telemetry, but they're too weak to actually feel. Again, a simple misunderstanding of the telemetry window. Just because the line/signal is fluctuating, doesn't mean you can actually feel the output. :) Just like an audio signal. You can tune the crap out of your EQ, but the lower you turn the volume down, the less detail you're ears are able to hear. The detail is still there, a well polished/tuned signal, you just can't hear enough of it to fully appreciate what's going on.

As far as the differences between PS4 and PC. The graphics are better, but I wouldn't say shockingly so. I'm running a GTX1080 and have everything max'd out. On some tracks, like the Nords, the differences are more noticeable than others, especially if you're driving in the late afternoon. The shadows and reflections on PC do blow console away, though. Same goes for rain effects. The drops behave a lot differently on PC and look way more natural. The loads times are way faster on PC, and the GUI itself is so much easier to navigate. On console, it was a pain in the butt to scroll through the track and car lists, but the same list on PC is breeze, because of the mouse scroll. I think SMS designed the GUI for PC, not realizing some elements might be a little cumbersome to navigate with analog sticks.

I think the FFB is where the PC version really shines, though. It's so much smoother and nuanced than console, giving me a level of car control that basically makes it feel like a different game. I can push the car a lot harder now. And I've caught a few spins that I know I would have never recovered from on console. And I'm not talk about little slips. I mean, losing it, sliding off track out of control, and being able to regain control and direction before smacking the wall kind of recoveries. :) Also, I might be crazy, or maybe it's the fact that I have better control of the car, but I think the AI is better. It's the same AI behavior, but they seem to be thinking and reacting faster, which makes them seem more intuitive. On console, if you aren't alongside the AI before you reach the braking zone, you get no respect. They'll turn into you, like you weren't even there. But on PC, I've noticed the AI leaving me room even when I'm only barely alongside his rear bumper. Again, I'm only about 4 hours into my PC experience, but the wheel to wheel action I was getting was impressive, compared to what I was used to on console. My guess is, it's the same behavioral algorithms, but, like load times, PC CPUs are able to process them faster. It's basically the same principle that allows PCs to have more cars on the grid. If true, then it would mean, the slower your PC, the less intuitive the AI will seem.

PC also seems more stable. Like I said, I'm only about 4-5 hours into the experience. But in 4-5 hours on console, was usually more than enough time to run into something.

All in all. The experience on PS4 was solid and a lot of fun and definitley the best I've ever had on console. Despite the intermittent glitches, I have yet to find anything else on console that comes close.

This is all true.... told you that you wouldn't regret it.
Good move mate.

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 16:41
This is all true.... told you that you wouldn't regret it.
Good move mate.

Yall Gonna Make Me Buy a New PC!!! Go some where else with hiw much better PC is the Temptation and the Good PC talk Gonna Make Me Do It... Hush!!! LOL.

I had the wif lookin at gaming PC's with Me and her question was what you waiting for??? Do it... Im just stuck on the fence about it and i dunno why:confused: I dont wanna do it just for Pcars...Maybe if i played more games or Iracing i wouldnt be on the fence... I have the feeling if i keep playing AC on My current PC i will get sucked into it and upgrade to a New PC... i can play AC in High settings but Not ultra... Hmmm i do have a UHD TV... Hmmm Look im falling into it allready:rolleyes: LOL

Atginct
11-08-2016, 16:58
Yeah I just jumped in last night and made a big change to rab to see and immediately went yep this is the problem. It seems rab values are very important to get the right feel at this point. Even one number makes a noticeable change in feel. Funny we are both at the same setting now. Other then scoop values at this point the settings seem to be pretty universal other then a few wheel specific things like wps,ddr,etc which would make it much easier for someone just coming in.


I honestly have no idea why all of the sudden I needed such a drastic change. Its never happened before with your settings. That's the only thing I can think of is when you fixed more of the phase cancelation problems it caused issues with the rab. The new settings are very clear I guess I would call it with an overall better feel in all the cars I tried last night. Nice job!!!!!


Changing RAB from .08 to .10 made a world of difference for me. The v3.0 settings are f'ing brilliant! Thanks Jack!

Forgive me for not looking it up but early on in the ffb discussions one of the other wmd peeps was adamant about the RAB settings and losing the benefit of a "processing block" (or something to that effect), if RAB was set under 5. That kind of stuck with me for some reason but anyway if that's the case it may be that we on t300's may be feeling ffb as intended for the first time? Or some reasonable proximity of it anyway.

As far as playing with RAB I went right with the .10 (default) but of course just had to play incrementally up to .30 (not a good feel FTR) and then bounced around between 8-13 till I was too numb to feel anything.

I'm fairly certain that I'm going to have to adjust DRR and DRF esp before I'm settled in again but yea it's cool that at this late point to once again have the game seemingly transform right in your hands, Jack, you are the man.

Haiden
11-08-2016, 17:11
Yall Gonna Make Me Buy a New PC!!! Go some where else with hiw much better PC is the Temptation and the Good PC talk Gonna Make Me Do It... Hush!!! LOL.

I had the wif lookin at gaming PC's with Me and her question was what you waiting for??? Do it... Im just stuck on the fence about it and i dunno why:confused: I dont wanna do it just for Pcars...Maybe if i played more games or Iracing i wouldnt be on the fence... I have the feeling if i keep playing AC on My current PC i will get sucked into it and upgrade to a New PC... i can play AC in High settings but Not ultra... Hmmm i do have a UHD TV... Hmmm Look im falling into it allready:rolleyes: LOL

There's no way, I'll only play PCars. I've only had the PC for a day, and I'm already playing PCars and AC...LOL I'll probably pick up Dirt Rally and F1 2016, and even check out Forza Apex, and iRacing, too. I just love sim racing, far more than I realized. I now think of it as a serious hobby, and like all hobbies, they evolve over time. Next year, when my niece finishes school, and I get my spare bedroom back, I'm going to move the rig in there and keeping building it out. Moving to PC was just a step in the process. You were sim racing before PCars. What makes you think you won't continue with other titles? :)

Edit: Don't buy one pre-made. Go to a computer shop/store and ask them to build it with your purchased parts. I looked at pre-builts. A PC with lesser specs than mine (no GTX1080, no liquid cooling and half the RAM) would have cost almost twice as much. The store only charged me $130 to build it. They would have even overclocked it for an addition $40.

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 17:40
There's no way, I'll only play PCars. I've only had the PC for a day, and I'm already playing PCars and AC...LOL I'll probably pick up Dirt Rally and F1 2016, and even check out Forza Apex, and iRacing, too. I just love sim racing, far more than I realized. I now think of it as a serious hobby, and like all hobbies, they evolve over time. Next year, when my niece finishes school, and I get my spare bedroom back, I'm going to move the rig in there and keeping building it out. Moving to PC was just a step in the process. You were sim racing before PCars. What makes you think you won't continue with other titles? :)

Edit: Don't buy one pre-made. Go to a computer shop/store and ask them to build it with your purchased parts. I looked at pre-builts. A PC with lesser specs than mine (no GTX1080, no liquid cooling and half the RAM) would have cost almost twice as much. The store only charged me $130 to build it. They would have even overclocked it for an addition $40.

Very True i Have other Games to play but some How Time gets in the way... Once i get on a Game when i get home it seems like only a few laps go by and its time to get off... im up at 4am for work so Its more of a time thing why im only playin Pcars... Then soon as im Ready to switch games i always get invited and caught up in Really Good Online races... I feel like a Kid...i just Hate it when its Bed time:mad:

Im already set up in a Man Kave Game Room... when you set yours up your gonna Luve it!!!

poirqc
11-08-2016, 17:44
Yall Gonna Make Me Buy a New PC!!! Go some where else with hiw much better PC is the Temptation and the Good PC talk Gonna Make Me Do It... Hush!!! LOL.

I had the wif lookin at gaming PC's with Me and her question was what you waiting for??? Do it... Im just stuck on the fence about it and i dunno why:confused: I dont wanna do it just for Pcars...Maybe if i played more games or Iracing i wouldnt be on the fence... I have the feeling if i keep playing AC on My current PC i will get sucked into it and upgrade to a New PC... i can play AC in High settings but Not ultra... Hmmm i do have a UHD TV... Hmmm Look im falling into it allready:rolleyes: LOL

Your wife gave you the go and you're still waiting for it! :D

morpwr
11-08-2016, 18:53
Forgive me for not looking it up but early on in the ffb discussions one of the other wmd peeps was adamant about the RAB settings and losing the benefit of a "processing block" (or something to that effect), if RAB was set under 5. That kind of stuck with me for some reason but anyway if that's the case it may be that we on t300's may be feeling ffb as intended for the first time? Or some reasonable proximity of it anyway.

As far as playing with RAB I went right with the .10 (default) but of course just had to play incrementally up to .30 (not a good feel FTR) and then bounced around between 8-13 till I was too numb to feel anything.

I'm fairly certain that I'm going to have to adjust DRR and DRF esp before I'm settled in again but yea it's cool that at this late point to once again have the game seemingly transform right in your hands, Jack, you are the man.

Actually at .10rab before it caused weird issues like the wheel hanging when the car got loose and some other issues. That was the reasoning behind the low rab. I think the reason we can run it higher now is the new settings from jack changed the way the forces interact. But that's only a guess. I settled at .10 but the range you where in seemed appropriate. Its just nice it was one thing throwing everything off and we get to see the results of jacks hard work.:D

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 19:39
Your wife gave you the go and you're still waiting for it! :D

Yup... LOL... She ordered My RS1 rig for a aniverssry Gift!!! She Fully supports My Sim Racing Addiction... Thats exactly what it is a Addiction!!! Any 1 who will spens 1 year Tweeking with Pcars FFB is Addicted to Sim Racing.

Im just on the fence about it... I dont want to go cheap so when i build it i wanna go with a powerful PC build but i dont want to Blow $2k just to play Pcars/Assetto Corsa with better Graphics...If i was into Iracing i would do it right away but i dont like the fact that you Never own anything when you dont renew your membership all your $$$ is wasted also if your internet is down you can even use the stuff you paid for off line.

My Current PC Runs AC and other Games very Nicely if i upgrade it would be 99.95% just for Pcars... I like that 1080 card Haiden has but i dont think i Need that card because i have No intent on going tripple Screen set up... I will do VR instead.



Do you have AC also??? i will send you a friend invite on Steam.

morpwr
11-08-2016, 19:48
What makes you think that? There is no limiter and nothing overrides that master on PC, itīs two of the same but independent....FFB master in game and FF on the wheel (Fanatec)
None of it really needed as just the dynamic range gets reduced on the wheel and the deadzone increased if below 100%. TF, SG and Scales are more than enough to adjust
appropriate levels without the loss of anything. The question is, is it really any different on consoles? ....almost forgot, FOR on CSWīs an other global thing to mess with.

So you leave the wheel master and game ffb masters at 100 on pc? I could see leaving one of them at 100 because its redundant on the pc but not both.

morpwr
11-08-2016, 20:00
There's no way, I'll only play PCars. I've only had the PC for a day, and I'm already playing PCars and AC...LOL I'll probably pick up Dirt Rally and F1 2016, and even check out Forza Apex, and iRacing, too. I just love sim racing, far more than I realized. I now think of it as a serious hobby, and like all hobbies, they evolve over time. Next year, when my niece finishes school, and I get my spare bedroom back, I'm going to move the rig in there and keeping building it out. Moving to PC was just a step in the process. You were sim racing before PCars. What makes you think you won't continue with other titles? :)

Edit: Don't buy one pre-made. Go to a computer shop/store and ask them to build it with your purchased parts. I looked at pre-builts. A PC with lesser specs than mine (no GTX1080, no liquid cooling and half the RAM) would have cost almost twice as much. The store only charged me $130 to build it. They would have even overclocked it for an addition $40.

Same here I always enjoyed racing games and its the reason I bought the first ps. Just for the first gt. Next came a g25 and g27 and the playseat. But I have never been as into it as I have since playing p cars. I try to play at least a little every night if possible. Is it an addiction? I don't know but there are worse thing I could be doing. I cant wait for ac to get here so I can try that. Not that one will be better like you said just more good racing with different cars and tracks. At least our girlfriends and wives know where to find us.Just check the seat.lol

morpwr
11-08-2016, 20:09
Yup... LOL... She ordered My RS1 rig for a aniverssry Gift!!! She Fully supports My Sim Racing Addiction... Thats exactly what it is a Addiction!!! Any 1 who will spens 1 year Tweeking with Pcars FFB is Addicted to Sim Racing.

Im just on the fence about it... I dont want to go cheap so when i build it i wanna go with a powerful PC build but i dont want to Blow $2k just to play Pcars/Assetto Corsa with better Graphics...If i was into Iracing i would do it right away but i dont like the fact that you Never own anything when you dont renew your membership all your $$$ is wasted also if your internet is down you can even use the stuff you paid for off line.

My Current PC Runs AC and other Games very Nicely if i upgrade it would be 99.95% just for Pcars... I like that 1080 card Haiden has but i dont think i Need that card because i have No intent on going tripple Screen set up... I will do VR instead.



Do you have AC also??? i will send you a friend invite on Steam.

I always told myself I spent a year figuring it out because I'm really stubborn and need to know how things work. Plus the game was really cool.lol Now I know I'm addicted. Maybe that was the sms plan all along. Turn us into pcars junkies....

Haiden
11-08-2016, 20:37
So you leave the wheel master and game ffb masters at 100 on pc? I could see leaving one of them at 100 because its redundant on the pc but not both.

Why not both? That's the point. :) We want to run FF at 100. They aren't stacking on each other. The game is outputting 100, and the wheel is rendering that signal at 100% of it's capacity. Why attenuate at the wheel level if you don't need to?

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 21:05
So you leave the wheel master and game ffb masters at 100 on pc? I could see leaving one of them at 100 because its redundant on the pc but not both.

Yes this would be the case but the Final output to the wheel is determind by what you have the PC Device control power set to.

Yes it is possible to use 100 across the board but you will Have to run Very Low TF, RAG and RAC... Its just a #'s game and what oart of the FFB system you coose to use to draw Power from.

It has always been My thoery that using Low Masters Kills the Dynamic Range/Purity of the FFB at the source!!!---> Low Masters with High in Car settings then boosting them back up with High RAG/SG...which IMO = Loss of Dynamic Range and Fidelity.

it is No surprise to Me that your feeling More Now that JS raised his Masters...take a look at the tweek structure the Basic tweek format is still the same just with Higher Masters:yes: when you Raise the Masters the rest of it is just + or - The Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz & SOP until it feels right to you...Then Balance the TF and RAC to Match... IMO No setting Needs to be above 1.00 because at 1.00/100 the FFB is very strong/Detailed/Vibrant so its just a Balancing act to get the feel the way you like it... This way your Not over driving 1 part of the ststem and under drive the other parts.... as i exerpted from 1 of tennenbaums post 1.00/100 is the intuitive system value.


Quote from JS post page 318, post 3171--->"Clamp - at 1.0 or lower the "limiting effect" works depending on TF level as expected. So with Gain at 1.0 no torque change is applied, Andrew Weber decribes it "the intuitively correct value", at this
stage the module (Clamp) is just a limiter, with TF 100 most noticeable" ..... I Agree 100% With this statement

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 21:18
Why not both? That's the point. :) We want to run FF at 100. They aren't stacking on each other. The game is outputting 100, and the wheel is rendering that signal at 100% of it's capacity. Why attenuate at the wheel level if you don't need to?

Haiden yes you are Correct but remember you dont have your Device controler output set to 100.... GM FFB 100---> Device Controler set to 75= Output to the wheel 75---> wheel will + or - according to where you have on Wheel FFB set....If you run All 3 at 100 the wheel will just be too Strong... Yes i agree you can use the Game settings to adjust the FFB so you can use all 3 set to 100 but looking at the settings being used this is Not Possible... But i could be wrong:confused:

Haiden
11-08-2016, 21:41
Haiden yes you are Correct but remember you dont have your Device controler output set to 100.... GM FFB 100---> Device Controler set to 75= Output to the wheel 75---> wheel will + or - according to where you have on Wheel FFB set....If you run All 3 at 100 the wheel will just be too Strong... Yes i agree you can use the Game settings to adjust the FFB so you can use all 3 set to 100 but looking at the settings being used this is Not Possible... But i could be wrong:confused:

Not sure why you say that. My GM FFB, FF, and @wheel FF are all set to 100. I also run TF=75, RAG=1.50, and RAC=90, none which I consider to be low.

Also, I think you might have misunderstood the v3.0 changes. Jack didn't raise the Masters Scale on all the cars. It seems that, in most cases, the in-car Masters that he raised were in cars where he lowered certain individual force scales. This makes sense, because the Master affects all the scales equally. If you're fine tuning, like he was to resolve phase issues, you can't raise or lower all of the scales equally, so you have to balance the force scales individually, and then raise the Master to compensate for the ones you decreased, if power has been lost. He didn't just raise the Master Scales arbitrarily for increased power. He raised them to compensate for the power he took away from some of the individual scales. In most cases, the result was close to a wash, no significant increase in overall FFB strength. In fact, in some cars, the wheel actually feels lighter, like the FA. That's an example of where he cut power in the small scales, without raising the Master.

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 21:56
Agree... basicly were saying the same thing with different words.... as i Noted the Tweek settings can be set so that 100/100+ settings can be used.

Im Not at My Pc im on My phone but the Device Controler what do you have the out put set to??? I may be getting the Name wrong but its the PC setting that controles the final Power output to the wheel...but Im prerty sure thats Not set to 100%...on PC thats what determins the Final power out put before it gets to the wheel.

Haiden
11-08-2016, 22:06
Agree... basicly were saying the same thing with different words.... as i Noted the Tweek settings can be set so that 100/100+ settings can be used.

Im Not at My Pc im on My phone but the Device Controler what do you have the out put set to??? I may be getting the Name wrong but its the PC setting that controles the final Power output to the wheel...but Im prerty sure thats Not set to 100%...on PC thats what determins the Final power out put before it gets to the wheel.

On console, there are only two settings--the GM FFB and the @Wheel FF. I was running both at 100.

On PC, there are three settings. The Fanatec driver control panel, the GM FFB, and the @Wheel FF. I know my GM FFB and @Wheel are set to 100, and I'm almost 99.9% sure the driver CP is set to 100, but I'll verify that later tonight. The only setting below 100 is TF, which is set to 75.

Atginct
11-08-2016, 22:12
Whatever happened with the nekkid bear meat eater guy?

GrimeyDog
11-08-2016, 22:27
On console, there are only two settings--the GM FFB and the @Wheel FF. I was running both at 100.

On PC, there are three settings. The Fanatec driver control panel, the GM FFB, and the @Wheel FF. I know my GM FFB and @Wheel are set to 100, and I'm almost 99.9% sure the driver CP is set to 100, but I'll verify that later tonight. The only setting below 100 is TF, which is set to 75.

Yes Haiden you are correct about Console.. Remember you are the 1 who clued Me in that PS4 GM FFB with 0 or 100 with Fanatec wheels Made No Difference after 7.0 update... and that for PS4 GM FFB FFB was ruled by the Fanatec on wheel FFB setting... I was sooo used to using GM FFB 35 that i had Not Noticed that SMS had Changed the way GM FFB works with PS4 and Fanatec wheels.

I dont think your Device/Driver Controler is set to 100 on PC... But i could be wrong... I know mine is Not and the wheel is very powerful on PC... I think its 65 or 75% tops.

Yes and Due to your settings with Low Car Masters 100 FFB on wheel was and is usable... But i still think Low in Car Masters Reduces Dynamic Range at the source... This explains why when you raised the masters per JS New recommended your getting More Feel... Your getting More Purity of FFB from the source.... Remember with any signal the pure source output is The key and it gets diluted/Loss of purity along the chain even though the signal is boosted here and there.... This is why i always use masters 100 and settings 100/1.00 or less... No Matter what you do or how you try to boost it once you Lose the signal purity at the source(any setting after the in Car Masters) you can boost it how ever you want but you can't get the Dynamic Range/ purity of the original FFB signal back.

3 Settings that control Final out put to the wheel is redundant and will/Should be ruled by the Final setting in the Chain.

Haiden
11-08-2016, 23:36
Steam ID : 2ndlastjedi


Can't seem to find you under that ID, man.

Mine is Haiden733.

Haiden
11-08-2016, 23:52
Yes Haiden you are correct about Console.. Remember you are the 1 who clued Me in that Console GM FFB with 0 or 100 with Fanatec wheels Made No Difference after 7.0 update... I was sooo used to using GM FFB 35 that i had Not Noticed that SMS had Changed the way GM FFB works with PS4 and Fanatec wheels.

I dont think your Device/Driver Controler is set to 100 on PC... But i could be wrong... I know mine is Not and the wheel is very powerful on PC... I think its 65 or 75% tops.

Yes and Due to your settings with Low Car Masters 100 FFB on wheel was and is usable... But i still think Low in Car Masters Reduces Dynamic Range at the source... This explains why when you raised the masters per JS New recommended your getting More Feel... Your getting More Purity of FFB from the source.... Remember with any signal the pure source output is The key and it gets diluted/Loss of purity along the chain even though the signal is boosted here and there.... This is why i always use masters 100 and settings 100/1.00 or less... No Matter what you do or how you try to boost it once you Lose the signal purity at the source(any setting after the in Car Masters) you can boost it how ever you want but you can't get the Dynamic Range/ purity of the original FFB signal back.

3 Settings that control Final out put to the wheel is redundant and will/Should be ruled by the Final setting in the Chain.

So, I checked and it's 100 across the board. No strength dampening in the driver control panel.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying someone can't achieve improved fidelity and range by increasing their in-car Masters. Depending on your global settings, I'm sure it's possible. But that's not the case with Jack's update. The increased fidelity/range is due to his resolving phase issues that were occurring at the individual scale level. Certain forces were cancelling each other out. All Jack did was eliminate the phase issues. By doing that, the subtle forces that were being cancelled out, can now be felt clearly, but it's not due to the increase in Master Scale. He didn't increase the Masters in every car, so that simply can't be the cause, anyway. He only increased the Master Scales to counter the affect of lowering some of the individual force scales. Remember, the Master is just a multiplier that's applied to the individual scales. 5*4*10=200 just like 5*2*20=200. Lowering the small scales, and increasing the Master like he did, results in a net gain of zero, or close to it. Overall, there was no real increase. :)

Edit: Also, 100% appears to be the driver control panel's default, because I just installed it on that PC. If yours is set lower, you must have changed it at some point.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 00:08
Yall Gonna Make Me Buy a New PC!!! Go some where else with hiw much better PC is the Temptation and the Good PC talk Gonna Make Me Do It... Hush!!! LOL.

I had the wif lookin at gaming PC's with Me and her question was what you waiting for??? Do it... Im just stuck on the fence about it and i dunno why:confused: I dont wanna do it just for Pcars...Maybe if i played more games or Iracing i wouldnt be on the fence... I have the feeling if i keep playing AC on My current PC i will get sucked into it and upgrade to a New PC... i can play AC in High settings but Not ultra... Hmmm i do have a UHD TV... Hmmm Look im falling into it allready:rolleyes: LOL

Did you get the latest AC update? I have it, because I just installed it. There's a bug (read it one the forums), and the LEDs no longer working on the Fanatec wheel. No gear showing, or rev indicator. :(

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 00:16
Did you get the latest AC update? I have it, because I just installed it. There's a bug (read it one the forums), and the LEDs no longer working on the Fanatec wheel. No gear showing, or rev indicator. :(

i will check now just got home on the PC now... My fanaleds were working last night.

morpwr
12-08-2016, 00:19
So, I checked and it's 100 across the board. No strength dampening in the driver control panel.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying someone can't achieve improved fidelity and range by increasing their in-car Masters. Depending on your global settings, I'm sure it's possible. But that's not the case with Jack's update. The increased fidelity/range is due to his resolving phase issues that were occurring at the individual scale level. Certain forces were cancelling each other out. All Jack did was eliminate the phase issues. By doing that, the subtle forces that were being cancelled out, can now be felt clearly, but it's not due to the increase in Master Scale. He didn't increase the Masters in every car, so that simply can't be the cause, anyway. He only increased the Master Scales to counter the affect of lowering some of the individual force scales. Remember, the Master is just a multiplier that's applied to the individual scales. 5*4*10=200 just like 5*2*20=200. Lowering the small scales, and increasing the Master like he did, results in a net gain of zero, or close to it. Overall, there was no real increase. :)

Edit: Also, 100% appears to be the driver control panel's default, because I just installed it on that PC. If yours is set lower, you must have changed it at some point.

I don't get how you can turn the wheel with those settings. There is no way I could drive with my wheel set at 100 without turning something way down in the ffb settings to the point it wouldn't come close to using the full hud.

morpwr
12-08-2016, 00:47
Its times like this I hate this game. Playing around tonight trying some cars and tracks I know and it just felt off. Better but wrong.Just couldn't feel the back of the car at all. So I try the g40 because I just ran it and my times are way off from before and the car feels really slow. I'm like wtf?I know this car is faster then this. I couldn't even get in the same gear id usually be in. Back out I change the rab back to .03 just to see and it works fine now and when I restart the race I'm back to my old times and in the right gear. So you know what I know now nothing!!!! I don't know if the game has just been screwed since I put in the first new car after the update or what. Time for a delete again.....

Haiden
12-08-2016, 01:07
i will check now just got home on the PC now... My fanaleds were working last night.

I saw, there's an update for the fanaleds that corrects the issue. I think.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 01:19
I don't get how you can turn the wheel with those settings. There is no way I could drive with my wheel set at 100 without turning something way down in the ffb settings to the point it wouldn't come close to using the full hud.

I honestly, don't know, man. When I had running my T300, I had FF/TF at 100/65, but I RAB was only 1.00 and RAC was 0.85. I can't remember what the in-car Masters were, but I know at one point, I was using Jack's settings, so they were probably close to what they are now. I was also using Scoops, so that cut some power.

But with the CSW-v2, FF/TF at 100/75 is just fine, even with RAG=1.50 and RAC=.90. The wheel isn't heavy, the motor isn't hot, and I get no fade after hours of continuous play. Believe me, one Saturday I played PCars for almost 12 hours...LOL.

In fact, Assetto Corsa's default FFB settings, were way heavier than my PCars setup. I actually had to turn the AC FFB down a bit, because of that.

What did surprise me was that my PCars PS4 settings work just as good on the PC. I didn't fiddle with them, so I might be able to get even more out of them, I just don't care to, because they feel great. :)

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 01:25
Did you get the latest AC update? I have it, because I just installed it. There's a bug (read it one the forums), and the LEDs no longer working on the Fanatec wheel. No gear showing, or rev indicator. :(

Im on Assetto Corsa Version 17.5
what version are you on???

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 01:29
I honestly, don't know, man. When I had running my T300, I had FF/TF at 100/65, but I RAB was only 1.00 and RAC was 0.85. I can't remember what the in-car Masters were, but I know at one point, I was using Jack's settings, so they were probably close to what they are now. I was also using Scoops, so that cut some power.

But with the CSW-v2, FF/TF at 100/75 is just fine, even with RAG=1.50 and RAC=.90. The wheel isn't heavy, the motor isn't hot, and I get no fade after hours of continuous play. Believe me, one Saturday I played PCars for almost 12 hours...LOL.

In fact, Assetto Corsa's default FFB settings, were way heavier than my PCars setup. I actually had to turn the AC FFB down a bit, because of that.

What did surprise me was that my PCars PS4 settings work just as good on the PC. I didn't fiddle with them, so I might be able to get even more out of them, I just don't care to, because they feel great. :)

Im on Assetto Corsa Now Driver Control Pannel 100 but My wheel FFB is @65 and the wheel is Hella Strong!!! @100 on Wheel FFB i would Not be able to Turn a decent lap.... Yup you guessed it since TF/RAC 75 i have been weened off the Saturated FFB and the FFB is Better:yes:

Haiden
12-08-2016, 01:48
Im on Assetto Corsa Now Driver Control Pannel 100 but My wheel FFB is @65 and the wheel is Hella Strong!!! @100 on Wheel FFB i would Not be able to Turn a decent lap.... Yup you guessed it since TF/RAC 75 i have been weened off the Saturated FFB and the FFB is Better:yes:

I'm on v 1.7.5, but I'm not running fanaleds. From what I read, Kunos screwed it up in an update, but Fanaleds' latest version can fix it. I may download that, but I don't have any additional displays. Other than getting the LEDs working AC (until Kunos fixes the problem), I'm not sure what I would use it for.

I haven't start fine tuning AC's FFB yet. I just turned a few things down in the game setting. But the Fanatec @wheel FF is still at 100.

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 02:24
Pcars definitly has better Engine sound than AC.

Now that Pcars FFB is Straight it is Very Clear that Pcars Also Kills AC in SOP feel...thats Not to say AC feels Bad or Lesser its just 2 different feels...AC used Proressive steering wheel weight to Make up for the Lack of SOP... the way AC implements the Progressive steering actually does a Really Good job of Replacing or Covering up the Lack of SOP feel... Ive been Swithing back and forth the Last 2 days running Monza with the GT3 BMW z4.

They are both still Great Games Very similar but yet very diffent at the same time.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 02:29
Pcars definitly has better Engine sound than AC.

Now that Pcars FFB is Straight it is Very Clear that Pcars Also Kills AC in SOP feel...thats Not to say AC feels Bad or Lesser its just 2 different feels...AC used Proressive steering wheel weight to Make up for the Lack of SOP... the way AC implements the Progressive steering actually does a Really Good job of Replacing or Covering up the Lack of SOP feel... Ive been Swithing back and forth the Last 2 days running Monza with the GT3 BMW z4.

They are both still Great Games Very similar but yet very diffent at the same time.

I agree. On both. I haven't tried many cars in AC yet, but I noticed that the sound wasn't as good as PCars. The strange thing is, though. When I was driving the Z4 in AC, I switched to exterior view, and the sound was WAY better. I don't know why the cockpit sound is so far off.

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 03:02
Ok... Bad News Report for Fanatec wheel users!!! The Official list of wheels that will be supported on PS4 F1 2016... Fanatec is Not on the PS4 list... Codemasters released a Statement also saying that they are doing all they can talking to Fanatec and Sony but the situation us out of their hands...Game Devs Lose sales and potential customers miss out on a Good Game!!! This was Rumored to happen... Bad Part is the Rumor is Assetto Corsa will be the same with No Fanatec wheel support!!!

vahagn_hayk
12-08-2016, 03:19
i agree, Assetto sound cockpit view is horrendous and outside sound is 300% better, actually sounds great! as for FFB, i find on console about same give or take, as @GrimeyDog already stated, but on PC i find AC ahead of pCARS, and if you get into AMS and rF2, those in regards to FFB/ physics are light years ahead of pCARS and AC, unfortunately though those two lack completely in the graphics department. (good old pi**ing match of Fanatec / Sony...)
to get back on the topic, has pCARS done any updates or changes lately to their FFB system?

Haiden
12-08-2016, 04:20
Im on Assetto Corsa Now Driver Control Pannel 100 but My wheel FFB is @65 and the wheel is Hella Strong!!! @100 on Wheel FFB i would Not be able to Turn a decent lap.... Yup you guessed it since TF/RAC 75 i have been weened off the Saturated FFB and the FFB is Better:yes:

Question: Did you use the recommended tools to tune your FFB, or did you go by feel? There's a pretty thorough procedure in their forums that uses iRacing WheelCheck and an AC plugin called FFB Clip. If you've already run WheelCheck, you can use one of your current imports to get the deadzone value, which you use for AC's "Minimum Force" setting. The FFB clip runs in game, and tells you where to set your gain to avoid clipping. For my wheel, the recommended Gain was 95. From there you can adjust the individual car FFB sliders as needed.

BigDad
12-08-2016, 04:22
Ok... Bad News Report for Fanatec wheel users!!! The Official list of wheels that will be supported on PS4 F1 2016... Fanatec is Not on the PS4 list... Codemasters released a Statement also saying that they are doing all they can talking to Fanatec and Sony but the situation us out of their hands...Game Devs Lose sales and potential customers miss out on a Good Game!!! This was Rumored to happen... Bad Part is the Rumor is Assetto Corsa will be the same with No Fanatec wheel support!!!

This is why I now have a rocking gaming PC.
Turns out Sony are also not allowing older move controllers to work with psvr as stated earlier they would. . Typical $ony cash grab.
I could have easily got my self a CSW-v2 for less than my PC but that would have left me in the hands of $ony still and i would have wanted to get the new Neo also. So $ony have now lost me forever and I will encourage all I speak to to also jump ship.
In reply to your earlier question GrimeyDog, I still have my Fanatec GT2 and Elite pedals and I just configured the buttons as I wanted, Some on my wheel and the rest on my keyboard.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 04:23
i agree, Assetto sound cockpit view is horrendous and outside sound is 300% better, actually sounds great! as for FFB, i find on console about same give or take, as @GrimeyDog already stated, but on PC i find AC ahead of pCARS, and if you get into AMS and rF2, those in regards to FFB/ physics are light years ahead of pCARS and AC, unfortunately though those two lack completely in the graphics department. (good old pi**ing match of Fanatec / Sony...)
to get back on the topic, has pCARS done any updates or changes lately to their FFB system?

I'm starting to see that, too. I still think PCars is more immersive, but AC is way more challenging on the physics side. It's a good balance of graphics and realism. I've seen those other two. The physics might be top notch, but I can't deal with those graphics...LOL

BigDad
12-08-2016, 04:27
Question: Did you use the recommended tools to tune your FFB, or did you go by feel? There's a pretty thorough procedure in their forums that uses iRacing WheelCheck and an AC plugin called FFB Clip. If you've already run WheelCheck, you can use one of your current imports to get the deadzone value, which you use for AC's "Minimum Force" setting. The FFB clip runs in game, and tells you where to set your gain to avoid clipping. For my wheel, the recommended Gain was 95. From there you can adjust the individual car FFB sliders as needed.

I did it by feel but have read about ffb clip, did you just install it the same way you would install any mod? but in the app part of the Assetto Corsa file.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 04:29
This is why I now have a rocking gaming PC.
Turns out Sony are also not allowing older move controllers to work with psvr as stated earlier they would. . Typical $ony cash grab.
I could have easily got my self a CSW-v2 for less than my PC but that would have left me in the hands of $ony still and i would have wanted to get the new Neo also. So $ony have now lost me forever and I will encourage all I speak to to also jump ship.
In reply to your earlier question GrimeyDog, I still have my Fanatec GT2 and Elite pedals and I just configured the buttons as I wanted, Some on my wheel and the rest on my keyboard.

Exactly! I saw this crap coming and don't have time for Sony's BS. Fanatec and the devs were doing fine. F'ck Sony for making a cash grab after how many years? They were totally aware of it, and let it go on while it was benefiting them, and now they want to screw people over. From now on, I'm treating consoles like I used to. Game and controllers use only. Sony and MS are too shady to trust with hardware investments. I knew it was too good to be true. Console tech may have come a long way, but the manufacturers are still acting like immature children.

BigDad
12-08-2016, 04:30
I agree. On both. I haven't tried many cars in AC yet, but I noticed that the sound wasn't as good as PCars. The strange thing is, though. When I was driving the Z4 in AC, I switched to exterior view, and the sound was WAY better. I don't know why the cockpit sound is so far off.

Can't you bring exterior sound into cockpit? Maybe I'm confusing R3E. Got to many racing games now it's hard to remember which is which.
What a problem to have, hey.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 04:33
I did it by feel but have read about ffb clip, did you just install it the same way you would install any mod? but in the app part of the Assetto Corsa file.

You download the .Rar archive and just unpack it to the specified game folder. Then when you start AC, go to settings and scroll to the UI Modules, you'll see it there. Activate it, and then you can turn in on from the hud options when driving. You just start it up and drive for a few minutes. It'll turn green when it's done and give you the recommended Gain value.

Here's a link with instructions. The downloads are at the bottom of the page.

http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/calibrating-your-force-feedback-wheel-using-wheelcheck-and-ffbclip.14319/

BigDad
12-08-2016, 05:42
You download the .Rar archive and just unpack it to the specified game folder. Then when you start AC, go to settings and scroll to the UI Modules, you'll see it there. Activate it, and then you can turn in on from the hud options when driving. You just start it up and drive for a few minutes. It'll turn green when it's done and give you the recommended Gain value.

Here's a link with instructions. The downloads are at the bottom of the page.

http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/calibrating-your-force-feedback-wheel-using-wheelcheck-and-ffbclip.14319/

Thanks Mate but could you tell me the path, as in when unzipping mods they go through steam,steam app, common,Assetto Corsa, track /car something like that, all I'm assuming is the last part instead of track it would go to app or something.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 06:08
Thanks Mate but could you tell me the path, as in when unzipping mods they go through steam,steam app, common,Assetto Corsa, track /car something like that, all I'm assuming is the last part instead of track it would go to app or something.

Ha! I almost added that to the post, because it took me a while to find the game folder.

C:/Program Files(86)/Steam/steamapps/common

Jack Spade
12-08-2016, 06:24
So you leave the wheel master and game ffb masters at 100 on pc? I could see leaving one of them at 100 because its redundant on the pc but not both.

Yes, both of them are post calculated FFB, are passive controllers which just lets you reduce from 100% dynamic on your wheel, an other negative effect
is a larger deadzone. The game offers several other features to adjust your desired FFB level without any negative side effects so whatīs the reason of
using something with some sort of "flaw"?

Haiden
12-08-2016, 06:45
Yes, both of them are post calculated FFB, are passive controllers which just lets you reduce from 100% dynamic on your wheel, an other negative effect
is a larger deadzone. The game offers several other features to adjust your desired FFB level without any negative side effects so whatīs the reason of
using something with some sort of "flaw"?

Exactly. And you can see/test the effect (of increased deadzone) by running WheelCheck at different strength levels. There's no debating that. Anyone can run the test. So if lowering, FF increases your deadzone, then you're obviously losing low level/subtle details, because that's what deadzone is. :)

morpwr
12-08-2016, 11:05
Yes, both of them are post calculated FFB, are passive controllers which just lets you reduce from 100% dynamic on your wheel, an other negative effect
is a larger deadzone. The game offers several other features to adjust your desired FFB level without any negative side effects so whatīs the reason of
using something with some sort of "flaw"?

Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong. I don't debate the ffb changes deadzone as its easily proven with wheelcheck and the fcm. But I don't see how turning down the game to the point you aren't using the whole range is better. I guess if I had to put it in simple terms id look at like using the equalizer on a stereo to lower the volume. So what you are saying is leaving my wheel at 100 and turning sg down to .5 would be better? I'm not so sure about that because from what I remember in early testing running the t300 at 100ffb gave you at gritty feeling you couldn't get rid of. But ill test that theory tonight when I reinstall the game again.

morpwr
12-08-2016, 11:07
Exactly. And you can see/test the effect (of increased deadzone) by running WheelCheck at different strength levels. There's no debating that. Anyone can run the test. So if lowering, FF increases your deadzone, then you're obviously losing low level/subtle details, because that's what deadzone is. :)

Not debating that fact like you said easily seen.

BigDad
12-08-2016, 12:11
Ha! I almost added that to the post, because it took me a while to find the game folder.

C:/Program Files(86)/Steam/steamapps/common
Thanks Haiden, sorted .
Not sure if you guys will be using a controller for some games on PC but instead of buying a xbox controller you can use you DS4 with a app called inputmapper . ive got it and i can actually lap as fast in AC as with my wheel .
You probably already have a xbox controller but i prefer my DS4 and this works perfectly in AC, BeamNG and hopefully No Mans Sky later tonight .

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 13:20
Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong. I don't debate the ffb changes deadzone as its easily proven with wheelcheck and the fcm. But I don't see how turning down the game to the point you aren't using the whole range is better. I guess if I had to put it in simple terms id look at like using the equalizer on a stereo to lower the volume. So what you are saying is leaving my wheel at 100 and turning sg down to .5 would be better? I'm not so sure about that because from what I remember in early testing running the t300 at 100ffb gave you at gritty feeling you couldn't get rid of. But ill test that theory tonight when I reinstall the game again.

Because the T300 does Not have on the wheel FFB + or - the GM FFB just sets the Final Power output to the wheel... Therefore you Must use the GM FFB to set the Final at the wheel FFB strength that is Right for you.

Fanatec wheels have on the wheel FFB + or - and GM FFB 0 or 100 Has No Notable effects... So it seems that Pcars GM FFB works Very differently with different wheels.
also if you look at the PCars Global Settings the Funny thing is most of those settings are built into the Fanatec on wheel Settings.

morpwr
12-08-2016, 13:28
Because the T300 does Not have on the wheel FFB +or - the GM FFB just sets the Final Power output to the wheel... Tgerfore you Must use the GM FFB to set the Final at the wheel FFB strength that is Right for you.

Fanatec wheel have on the wheel FFB + or - and GM FFB 0 or 100 Has No Notable effects... So it seems that Pcars GM FFB works Very differently with different wheels.
also if you look at the OCars Global Settings the Funny thing is most of those settings are built into the Fanatec on wheel Settings.

That what I'm getting at but they are saying everything at 100. I don't see how that's possible and still be able to turn the wheel.lol

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 14:16
That what I'm getting at but they are saying everything at 100. I don't see how that's possible and still be able to turn the wheel.lol

Exactly!!! The 100 GM FFB Rule has Never Made any sense to Me but to Each their own...In order to use GM FFB 100% with every wheel you would have to turn the Forces Down at the source In Car Masters, TF/SG... Which By Default Is Killing Dynamic Range... Once you Limit Dynamic Range at the source you Never get it back No Matter How you try to Boost the signal back up.. Yes you will get FFB signal but you lose the purity of it and it gets boosted back up with Fille, just Raw power added to it instead of FFB detail.

Don't get lost in Fancy word play and word Semantics Either!!! Phase cancellation and other fancy big words and such:no: None of us are going into the FFB system and Re writing FFB code...Using Big words to say just + or - Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz & SOP until the FFB feels right to you:yes: just Makes and Keeps the FFB over complicated when its Really Not.

Each wheel must be respected and treated according to its own Characteristics... Once you have your TF and Relative system set to a limit that your specific wheel can Handle the rest is adjust DRR,DRF and Scoops Settings the way you like them.

I always Keep My Masters at 100 IMO this way the Full/Pure Car FFB passes through and i adjust the TF, RAG & RAC to set them at a level that feels best at the wheel.... The Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz & SOP should be set to bring out the feel you like most.

I never Move SG from 1.00 its Not Necessary if your other settings are Balanced right... Its the Last link in the FFB chain and only Needs adjustment if other settings are off.

GM FFB has No influence on Global settings!!! It just sets the final at the wheel FFB power Level.

I had Long ago given up trying to explain this it just created too Much Bickering.

morpwr
12-08-2016, 14:31
Exactly!!! The 100 GM FFB Rule has Never Made any sense to Me but to Each their own...In order to use GM FFB 100% with every wheel you would have to turn the Forces Down at the source In Car Masters, TF/SG... Which By Default Is Killing Dynamic Range... Once you Limit Dynamic Range at the source you Never get it back No Matter How you try to Boost the signal back up.. Yes you will get FFB signal but you lose the purity of it and it gets boosted back up with Fille, just Raw power added to it instead of FFB detail.

Dont get lost i word play and symantics Either!!! Phase cancellation and other fancy big words and such:yes: None of us is going into the FFB system and Re writing FFB code...Using Big words to say just + or - Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz & SOP until the FFB feels right to you:yes: just Makes and Keeps the FFB over complicated when its Really Not.

Each wheel must be respected and treated according to its own Characteristics... Once you have your TF and Relarive system set to a limit that your specific wheel can Handle the rest is adjust DRR,DRF and Scoops Settings the way you like them.

I always Keep My Masters at 100 IMO this way the Full/Pure Car FFB passes through and i adjust the TF, RAG & RAC to set them at a level that feels best at the wheel.... The Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz & SOP should be set to bring out the feel you like most.

I never Move SG from 1.00 its Not Necessary if your other settings are Balanced right... Its the Last link in the FFB chain and only Needs adjustment if ither settings are off.

GM FFB has No influence on Global settings!!! It just sets the final at the wheel FFB power Level.

I had Long ago given up trying to explain this it just created too Much Bickering.

Ill test this theory tonight with sg,tf and both combined and see if it feels the same but from what ive seen it will not. From what ive seen in the past turning turning tf or sg down from where it is now just loses detail. But I guess we will see.

Jack Spade
12-08-2016, 14:52
Ill test this theory tonight with sg,tf and both combined and see if it feels the same but from what ive seen it will not. From what ive seen in the past turning turning tf or sg down from where it is now just loses detail. But I guess we will see.

To exclude placebo effects do not look at the FFB monitor, SG and TF level change will be noticeable there, even at zero FFB master donīt affect the line at all.

morpwr
12-08-2016, 15:04
To exclude placebo effects do not look at the FFB monitor, SG and TF level change will be noticeable there, even at zero FFB master donīt affect the line at all.

I know the ffb master is after the hud and yes I realize youd see tf and sg in the hud so ill leave it off just to make things fair. Ill do tf and sg by themselves and then go 10 at a time combined to get the wheel weight I want. I think that's as fair as I can make it.

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 15:06
Ill test this theory tonight with sg,tf and both combined and see if it feels the same but from what ive seen it will not. From what ive seen in the past turning turning tf or sg down from where it is now just loses detail. But I guess we will see.

When you turn down SG you will Lose Dynamic Range.
If you turn Down TF you Lose Nothing Notable except over exagerated Forces and wheel weight... Yup i Learned that from Haiden... Took him a Bit of Bickering but im Convinced he was right.

Look at it like this I can watch a UHD movie on a TV that plays only 480p and the TV will put out the best picture quality that it can and will disregard the unusable signal that it cant display.

If i try to watch a 480p Movie on a UHD TV the picture quality will be Greatly diminished!!! Even when you try to boost the picture quality with the TV settings and set the picture to fill the screen the picture will play but it will distorted because it doesn't have enough lines of Resolution/ Signal to fill the screen.

I see the FFB/ In car Masters the same way I can use TF/RAG/RAC to Disregard/Cut the Pure FFB signal to a level that will Not Clip and Feels Good at the wheel without Loss of Dynamic Range or Fidelity.

IMO when you Cut the FFB with Low Master your Losing Dynamic Range at the Source and Can Never Get it Back No Matter How you try to Boost it:no:

Heres another way...24k Gold is too Soft to wear right but I can Take 24k Gold and Cut it to 18k, 14k, or 10k gold that is wearable and Disregard the the rest of the gold i dont want to use...But who gonna throw away Gold!!! LOL..i will just have extra laying around for when i Need it.
High Master = No Loss of Dynamic Range.

But you cant take 10k Gold and boost it into 24k Gold:no: and if you do refine it back to a pure state you will Have Much less Gold than you started off with:yes: Low Master = Loss of Dynamic Range

So my point is IMO its better to Start out with Pure Raw FFB forces and Reduce/Cut them with the Global settings this = No Dynamic Range Loss

If you Start off with Low Forces and try to boost them back up you have Lost Dynamic Range at the Source and are just adding back Raw power trying to get it back IMO this = Loss of Dynamic Range because the Raw power added back is Not pure FFB signal... think about it...Do the Math

Jack Spade
12-08-2016, 15:08
I know the ffb master is after the hud and yes I realize youd see tf and sg in the hud so ill leave it off just to make things fair.

Also note TF is prior the procession stuff and directly affects RA and SC, SG is post.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 15:18
Because the T300 does Not have on the wheel FFB + or - the GM FFB just sets the Final Power output to the wheel... Therefore you Must use the GM FFB to set the Final at the wheel FFB strength that is Right for you.

Fanatec wheels have on the wheel FFB + or - and GM FFB 0 or 100 Has No Notable effects... So it seems that Pcars GM FFB works Very differently with different wheels.
also if you look at the PCars Global Settings the Funny thing is most of those settings are built into the Fanatec on wheel Settings.


That what I'm getting at but they are saying everything at 100. I don't see how that's possible and still be able to turn the wheel.lol

Yes. Fanatec wheels offer external attenuation options, but we aren't using them, so the point moot. We're running 100 GM FFB and wheel FF, with no PC driver dampening. Honestly, I guess I can understand Morpwr's confusion, because you don't have the same hardware, and maybe those settings are really heavy on the T300. But Grimey, I don't get your agreement about the wheel being too heavy to turn. You can easily test out mine, or any of the other settings on Oscar's site using FF=100. My wheels isn't anywhere near heavy. In fact, Grimey's setting actually produce a heavier wheel than mine, especially before he lowered RAC. But even with RAC at 75, the persistent strength below the RAC make his setting feel a heavier.

Also, here's the thing about lower FF vs lowering other settings. When you lower FF, you add/increase the deadzone at the bottom of the curve. That's an area where NO forces will sent to the wheel. When you lower other scales to reduce the ceiling, your not cutting anything off. You're just compressing the higher end or lowering the ceiling, so that the force curve doesn't rise above your wheel's usable range (in essence, you're removing a deadzone from the upper range). You can still feel these forces, because they are still in the wheel's range. When you lower FF, you lower your ceiling, but you also increase your the deadzone at the bottom. So you get all the range at the top, but lose whatever falls into the deadzone. FF has a compound effect. The other settings don't. They solve your high range issues, without pushing the lower end out of the detectable range.

Basically, lower or compressing at the high is doing the exact same thing that you're trying to do by keeping FF as high as you can--reducing/removing a deadzone.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 15:24
If you turn Down TF you Lose Nothing Notable except over exagerated Forces and wheel weight...

IMO when you Cut the FFB with Low Master your Losing Dynamic Range at the Source and Can Never Get it Back No Matter How you try to Boost it:no:

These two statements seem to be in conflict. The in-car Master Scale is the same as TF, so if lowering TF doesn't affect the dynamic range, then why would the Master Scale? They're the same thing, multipliers, just at different stages in the chain.


Edit:


If you Start off with Low Forces and try to boost them back up you have Lost Dynamic Range at the Source and are just adding back Raw power trying to get it back IMO this = Loss of Dynamic Range because the Raw power added back is Not pure FFB signal... think about it...Do the Math

The forces aren't starting low. TF and the Master Scales aren't forces, they're multipliers. The in-car rack scales are the actual forces. No one is saying to turn your rack scales down. The Rack and SoP scales have to be balanced. And since some of them operate in the same spectrum, phase issues can occur where one cancels the other out. That's what Jack has been spending his time trying to resolve, and finally did with v3.0. That's why the math is important. When you tune the rack by feel, you eventually get to a point where you simply can't detect what's cancelling out. That's why v2.9 felt amazing, but v3.0 feels even better. Going by feel, no one knew what was missing. How could we? The v2.9s had great range. Without looking at the signal mathematically, it was impossible to understand that some subtleties were being lost. But as soon as you load the v3.0 (and set your RAB right :) ), you're like, "Holy crap! That feel even better." :)

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 15:37
These two statements seem to be in conflict. The in-car Master Scale is the same as TF, so if lowering TF doesn't affect the dynamic range, the why would the Master Scale? They're the same thing, multipliers, just at different stages in the chain.


Edit:



The forces aren't starting low. TF and the Master Scales aren't forces, they're multipliers. The in-car rack scales are the actual forces. No one is saying to turn your rack scales down. The Rack and SoP scales have to be balanced. And since some of them operate in the same spectrum, phase issues can occur where one cancels the other out. That's what Jack has been spending his time trying to resolve and finally did with v3.0. That's why the math is important. When you tune the rack by feel, you simply don't know what's cancelling out. That's why Jack's v2.9 felt amazing, but v3.0 feels even better. Going by feel, no one knew what was missing. How could you? The v2.9s had great range. Without looking at the signal mathematically, it was impossible to understand that some subtleties were being lost.

Multipiers/Scales/Volume Controles they all equal same thing + or - them until the feel is Right for you.

No Confict in My Comments we just have Different perspectives on the way things work...This will Greatly influence the Context of how you interprate My staement.... But different opinion is always the Best thats how Pcars FFB has come so Far along:yes:

Haiden
12-08-2016, 15:43
Multipiers/Scales/Volume Controles they all equal same thing + or - them until the feel is Right for you.

No Confict in My Comments we just have Different perspectives on the way things work...This will Greatly influence the Context of how you interoerate My staement.... But different opinion is always the Best thats how Pcars FFB has come so Far along:yes:

All right; we can agree to disagree. Everyone has their preference. :)

I will say this, though... When two things are the same (and we all agree TF and the Master Scale are the exact same thing), then how can they produce drastically different results? In this case, that's what makes it difficult for me to see it from your perspective.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 16:00
Thanks Haiden, sorted .
Not sure if you guys will be using a controller for some games on PC but instead of buying a xbox controller you can use you DS4 with a app called inputmapper . ive got it and i can actually lap as fast in AC as with my wheel .
You probably already have a xbox controller but i prefer my DS4 and this works perfectly in AC, BeamNG and hopefully No Mans Sky later tonight .

NP. Like I said, if you ran the WheelCheck before, you already know your deadzone value, so you can use that to set the minimum force in AC. But I highly recommend giving the FFB Clip a shot. It appears that, by default, all of the cars in AC have clipping. That's one of the reasons the FFB controller is an in-session plugin. Once you get your Master Gain (in gobal settings) set to where you want it, you can then use FFB Clip to get the cars in line. It's basically becomes the first step of the tuning process, but unlike the car setup options, the FFB Controller setting is saved to the car and follows it from track to track.

Also, here's more info on the app if you need it. http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ffbclip-app.7910/

From what I've been able to find, it seems that the current version of the app doesn't really match any of the instructions online, so more tips you read, the more you start to understand the app, but they all seem to mention settings that are no longer available. :confused:

That's for the tip. I didn't know you could use the DS4. I already have an Xb1 controller, though. I actually prefer that controller to the DS4, because I've been using it much longer.

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 16:19
All right; we can agree to disagree. Everyone has their preference. :)

I will say this, though... When two things are the same (and we all agree TF and the Master Scale are the exact same thing), then how can they produce drastically different results? In this case, that's what makes it difficult for me to see it from your perspective.

Master Scales are Governed/ Ruled By TF... So setting the Master Scales to 100 and Reducing TF to 75 = Master Scales output has been reduced to 75.

When you Run Low Masters and Reduce TF also you are Cutting the Pure In Car FFB 2x before it reaches the the rest of the FFB system... No Need to Cut in Car FFB 2x its redundant and over complicates things.... Remember when i learned this a few Months ago it way Very Eye opening and Made the FFB system very clear to Me.

We may have diff ideas on how things work but your input has helped Me alot with the FFB system. You are the 1 who convinced Me TF 100 was too Much and the FFB forces were over exagerated because of that:yes:... My FFB has Been Sweeter than Bear Meat ever since then!!!

Haiden
12-08-2016, 17:02
Master Scales are Governed/ Ruled By TF... So setting the Master Scales to 100 and Reducing TF to 75 = Master Scales output has been reduced to 75.

When you Run Low Masters and Reduce TF also you are Cutting the Pure In Car FFB 2x before it reaches the the rest of the FFB system... No Need to Cut in Car FFB 2x its redundant and over complicates things.... Remember when i learned this a few Months ago it way Very Eye opening and Made the FFB system very clear to Me.

We may have diff ideas on how things work but your input has helped Me alot with the FFB system. You are the 1 who convinced Me TF 100 was too Much and the FFB forces were over exagerated because of that:yes:... My FFB has Been Sweeter than Bear Meat ever since then!!!

Well, if it's working for you, run with it. :)

On another note... I was up until 3 AM, playing AC. Once I got the FFB sorted out, it was even more awesome, and I couldn't stop playing...LOL The whole time I was thinking, Man, I think I was wrong. This is better than PCars. Before shutting down, I decided to run a few quick laps in PCars just for comparison. Same car/track combo. One lap into PCars, I was like, Damn...I love this game. LOL

Neither is better or worse than the other. They're just two incredibly brilliant racers that each offer a unique experience, and I find myself able to enjoy them equally. AC wins on physics, PCars wins in immersion. That doesn't mean either is bad at the other's strength. It's just the direction the developers have chosen to lean, and that's why one doesn't win over the other, at least not for me. I'm very with these two games. :)

Edit: Also, what I really love about AC and PCars is the ease at which you can go from one to the other. When I tried to go from PCars to Forza, I was just frustrated in Forza, because it looks nice, but the handling is rubbish, the FOV is ridiculous, and the tire squeal is like a spike in my head. Way too overdone. They really need to follow AC's lead and let you control the level of squeal, because it's so annoying to turn a corner at 20 mph, and hear racing slicks squeal like they're on the edge of grip...LOL

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 19:15
This was the Key to understanding the FFB system for Me!!! Once i understood that "Tire Force is the global version of Spindle Master Scale" it all made sense!!! I had just been overlooking this simple fact for sooo long i just don't know how i missed it!!! Probably because it was hiding right in my face the whole time!!! Ex: in car masters 100---> TF 75= in car Masters have been reduced to 75:yes:

Its Redundant to reduce the in car masters then reduce them again with TF...this is why IMO you Lose Dynamic Range when you use low in car masters... your killing it at the source instead of reducing it through TF (for me 85 or less) and the rest of the FFB Chain...RAG 100 or lower and RAC 85 or less.

IMO once you Kill the Dynamic range at the source/In car masters you can not get it back no matter how or where in the FFB chain you try to boost it back up using High 101+ RAG,SG etc... with these settings at 100 or Lower the FFB system is Not weak or lacking power so i have never understood why they would need to be turned up past 1.00 "Andrew Weber decribes it "the intuitively correct value" take note of the below Quote posted earlier in this thread.

Quote from JS post page 318, post 3171--->"Clamp - at 1.0 or lower the "limiting effect" works depending on TF level as expected. So with Gain at 1.0 no torque change is applied, Andrew Weber decribes it "the intuitively correct value", at this
stage the module (Clamp) is just a limiter, with TF 100 most noticeable" ..... I Agree 100% With this statement:yes:


http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?38744-Lets-talk-FFB-Post-and-Compare-short-Telemetry-Videos-and-what-FFB-tweek-used&p=1277270&viewfull=1#post1277270


Quote from tennenbaum linked post below this was the Eye opening FFB Changer for Me!!!
Link to original post below
http://www.racedepartment.com/thread...thread.105466/ (http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/the-project-cars-ffb-guide-thread.105466/)

Quote "a) Fx = 200, Fy = 100, Fz = 100, Mz = 100, Spindle Master Scale = 100
b) Fx = 100, Fy = 50, Fz = 50, Mz = 50, Spindle Master Scale = 200

Mathematically speaking a) and b) represent the exact same thing and will result in the exact same FFB mixing in terms of relative and overall output. This is because (as hinted at above) the Spindle Master Scale (Sms) is distributive such that Sms * (Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz) = (Sms * Fx, Sms * Fy, Sms * Fz, Sms * Mz). Again, take a moment to reflect on that.

Fy, Fz, and Mz all behave in the same way from a mathematical perspective.

"It is worth noting that Tire Force is the global version of Spindle Master Scale. The global Tire Force default is 100, which again means 100% or simply 1.0. The reason there is both a global and a per car knob that do the exact same kind of scaling, is that different cars produce different forces as measured at the steering rack. So if you like the quality of the FFB overall, but think the wheel jerks around a bit too much in all the cars, try dialling down Tire Force. If you like the quality of the FFB overall, but you think one or two of the cars have too strong FFB, leave the global Tire Force at 100 and tweak the Spindle Master Scale for those two cars." End quote

Tire Force
FORCE FEEDBACK CALIBRATION
This is simply an overall multiplier on all of the input tire forces. Note that G forces, the input to Gut, are not scaled with this parameter. Use this parameter to scale for a controller overall.
Use SpindleMasterScale to scale per car or setup.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233021&d=1463140214

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 19:25
yup you guessed it I'm home on PC Now!!! LOL
I'm doing some research on gaming PC's trying to make a firm decision on what i wanna do:confused:

i am getting more curious than ever to play Pcars on PC!!! dam You All stop talking about how good the PC version is...LOL.

Haiden
12-08-2016, 19:47
Its Redundant to reduce the in car masters then reduce them again with TF.

In theory, yes. But there's a reason for that redundancy. It's in the quote you shared.


"It is worth noting that Tire Force is the global version of Spindle Master Scale. The global Tire Force default is 100, which again means 100% or simply 1.0. The reason there is both a global and a per car knob that do the exact same kind of scaling, is that different cars produce different forces as measured at the steering rack. So if you like the quality of the FFB overall, but think the wheel jerks around a bit too much in all the cars, try dialling down Tire Force. If you like the quality of the FFB overall, but you think one or two of the cars have too strong FFB, leave the global Tire Force at 100 and tweak the Spindle Master Scale for those two cars."

You can't fine tune per car without that redundancy.

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 20:36
Exactly and 100% true...but i was referring to using the masters at a very low range and using other means to try and boost the FFB signal back up with settings that are 101+.

I understand that works for some i was just posting that way i could clear up any confusion for those that might not understand and state the basis why i believe 100 masters works best for Me.

Roger Prynne
12-08-2016, 20:41
You guys are just going over the same thing as you have done in the past, just except the fact that you look at it differently and move on :rolleyes:
That's not me being a Mod, just a guy fed up with the same discussion :hopelessness:

GrimeyDog
12-08-2016, 21:11
You guys are just going over the same thing as you have done in the past, just except the fact that you look at it differently and move on :rolleyes:
That's not me being a Mod, just a guy fed up with the same discussion :hopelessness:

LOL... trust Me We are not Bickering...I know im not... I don't believe Haiden is either.
Just a matter of time i will pull him to the dark side:barbershop_quartet_ resistance is futile:yes:

Haiden
12-08-2016, 21:31
You guys are just going over the same thing as you have done in the past, just except the fact that you look at it differently and move on :rolleyes:
That's not me being a Mod, just a guy fed up with the same discussion :hopelessness:

You know you like it. :p

morpwr
12-08-2016, 23:46
You know you like it. :p

Well I'm going to settle it once and for all. Before I get to that. Did anybody know there is a spot for error reports on the ps4? I didn't. Just happened across it when I was deleting everything again. Guess what I had a software crash the other night and never knew. I didn't get a pop up telling me and apparently ive been running screwed up ffb again without knowing. Hopefully its actually right now. So now to the question everybody wants to know. Can you run 100 on the console and the answer is yes but there is a but. Oddly enough for the first time ever 100 didn't feel all that heavy compared to 75. Now heres were the but comes in. For the t300 I don't think turning down tf is the answer sg worked better. Didnt take nearly as much as I would have guessed with the ffb working right and not super strong. 65 for tf gave a pretty reasonable weight as did .90 for sg. Just to make the comparison as fair to jack as possible I ran the fcm at 100 and used the numbers for feel comparison. So with that being said I would say yes you can run 100 on consoles with a more linear wheel then the t300. Above 75 and especially at 100 the curve isn't very good compared to 75 and below. After the fcm scoop and ddr values it has a big dip in the curve that isn't there below 75ffb. Its obvious driving it too you wind up missing a lot of detail. Is it horrible no and could you make it better maybe but I think youd be fighting the big dip in the curve the whole time and have to make a big sacrifice somewhere else to get around it. The difference in ddr I don't think is enough to say one way or the other is better.Its not like its dropping to .02.lol So my final answer is yes you can is it the best way to go for every wheel I'm not sure about that. For you guys with the v2s I get it now.

Haiden
13-08-2016, 01:37
Well I'm going to settle it once and for all. Before I get to that. Did anybody know there is a spot for error reports on the ps4? I didn't. Just happened across it when I was deleting everything again. Guess what I had a software crash the other night and never knew. I didn't get a pop up telling me and apparently ive been running screwed up ffb again without knowing. Hopefully its actually right now. So now to the question everybody wants to know. Can you run 100 on the console and the answer is yes but there is a but. Oddly enough for the first time ever 100 didn't feel all that heavy compared to 75. Now heres were the but comes in. For the t300 I don't think turning down tf is the answer sg worked better. Didnt take nearly as much as I would have guessed with the ffb working right and not super strong. 65 for tf gave a pretty reasonable weight as did .90 for sg. Just to make the comparison as fair to jack as possible I ran the fcm at 100 and used the numbers for feel comparison. So with that being said I would say yes you can run 100 on consoles with a more linear wheel then the t300. Above 75 and especially at 100 the curve isn't very good compared to 75 and below. After the fcm scoop and ddr values it has a big dip in the curve that isn't there below 75ffb. Its obvious driving it too you wind up missing a lot of detail. Is it horrible no and could you make it better maybe but I think youd be fighting the big dip in the curve the whole time and have to make a big sacrifice somewhere else to get around it. The difference in ddr I don't think is enough to say one way or the other is better.Its not like its dropping to .02.lol So my final answer is yes you can is it the best way to go for every wheel I'm not sure about that. For you guys with the v2s I get it now.

Funny. I meant to tell you something similar. I thought about what you said about 100 being heavy, and then remembered the force curve I saw someone post for the T300. It's way higher and non-linear than the curve CSW-v2 curve. So much so that even though the CSW is stronger, it's strength is spread more evenly along the curve. The actual mid-strength output for me is probably much lower than it is for you, because your force curve is bowed up, spiking much sooner than mine.

morpwr
13-08-2016, 01:58
Funny. I meant to tell you something similar. I thought about what you said about 100 being heavy, and then remembered the force curve I saw someone post for the T300. It's way higher and non-linear than the curve CSW-v2 curve. So much so that even though the CSW is stronger, it's strength is spread more evenly along the curve. The actual mid-strength output for me is probably much lower than it is for you, because your force curve is bowed up, spiking much sooner than mine.

And the problem is after you add scoops it has a dip down close to middle where my guess is a lot of the forces are. Which could be why I was missing some of the feel. So either way works.100 or not isn't a big difference at the end of the day. But at this point I'm not going to try and make 100 work for what could possibly turn out to be little to no gain.But the debate is solved.☺On a side note my old Rab works just fine when the ffb isn't corrupted.

Haiden
13-08-2016, 02:07
And the problem is after you add scoops it has a dip down close to middle where my guess is a lot of the forces are. Which could be why I was missing some of the feel. So either way works.100 or not isn't a big difference at the end of the day. But at this point I'm not going to try and make 100 work for what could possibly turn out to be little to no gain.But the debate is solved.☺On a side note my old Rab works just fine when the ffb isn't corrupted.

Now that is strange.

Jack Spade
13-08-2016, 07:23
Well I'm going to settle it once and for all. Before I get to that. Did anybody know there is a spot for error reports on the ps4? I didn't. Just happened across it when I was deleting everything again. Guess what I had a software crash the other night and never knew. I didn't get a pop up telling me and apparently ive been running screwed up ffb again without knowing. Hopefully its actually right now. So now to the question everybody wants to know. Can you run 100 on the console and the answer is yes but there is a but. Oddly enough for the first time ever 100 didn't feel all that heavy compared to 75. Now heres were the but comes in. For the t300 I don't think turning down tf is the answer sg worked better. Didnt take nearly as much as I would have guessed with the ffb working right and not super strong. 65 for tf gave a pretty reasonable weight as did .90 for sg. Just to make the comparison as fair to jack as possible I ran the fcm at 100 and used the numbers for feel comparison. So with that being said I would say yes you can run 100 on consoles with a more linear wheel then the t300. Above 75 and especially at 100 the curve isn't very good compared to 75 and below. After the fcm scoop and ddr values it has a big dip in the curve that isn't there below 75ffb. Its obvious driving it too you wind up missing a lot of detail. Is it horrible no and could you make it better maybe but I think youd be fighting the big dip in the curve the whole time and have to make a big sacrifice somewhere else to get around it. The difference in ddr I don't think is enough to say one way or the other is better.Its not like its dropping to .02.lol So my final answer is yes you can is it the best way to go for every wheel I'm not sure about that. For you guys with the v2s I get it now.

Well, the fact your wheelīs linearity seems better at 75 FFB is an aspect to be considered, actually that FFB level has no impact on the linearity of a CSW v2,
I checked FF on the wheel at 100% and 70% only difference is a larger deadzone at 70%. BTW on PC I remember two instances where something was off
on FFB just of the sudden for unknown reason, a restart cured the issue.

Haiden
13-08-2016, 13:22
Well, the fact your wheelīs linearity seems better at 75 FFB is an aspect to be considered, actually that FFB level has no impact on the linearity of a CSW v2,
I checked FF on the wheel at 100% and 70% only difference is a larger deadzone at 70%. BTW on PC I remember two instances where something was off
on FFB just of the sudden for unknown reason, a restart cured the issue.

Same here. When I was using the FCM, I ran WheelCheck at 100, 75, and 50. Deadzone was the only real change in the curve.

Haiden
13-08-2016, 14:36
Steam ID : 2ndlastjedi
Are you running both games in 4K ? if so how do they compare and what fps are you getting for pCars ? with ultra everything because my GTX1060 very nearly
maxes out 4K everything @60fps which is all my tv can handle . 3840x2160 60p and using fast sync to totally remove any screen tearing .
i added some mods last night , some of them are pretty bad even after reading reviews from other users . Paul Richard is probably the stand out track so far . Longford is a definite no go , it puts huge loads on your cpu and i was getting a 99%occupancy warning appearing in game .uninstalled asap .

I won't really know until next week. I ordered a monitor mount for my rig and will pick up a 4K next week. Right now, with HD, if turn V-sync off, I can get over 130 fps in AC and PCars on full Ultra.

GrimeyDog
13-08-2016, 15:07
Well, the fact your wheelīs linearity seems better at 75 FFB is an aspect to be considered, actually that FFB level has no impact on the linearity of a CSW v2,
I checked FF on the wheel at 100% and 70% only difference is a larger deadzone at 70%. BTW on PC I remember two instances where something was off
on FFB just of the sudden for unknown reason, a restart cured the issue.


Same here. When I was using the FCM, I ran WheelCheck at 100, 75, and 50. Deadzone was the only real change in the curve.

End Result is always the same + or - Until the Feel is Right for you. Which has always been what i have said:yes: Different Wheels, Different people have Varying FFB Taste Some Like Strong FFB/ Wheel weight, Some Like FFB Light... Just too Many Variable to promote a 1 setting Rule as absoulute truth that must be Followed.

I see all the Settings this way Just + or - ... Its Not Like we are Rewriting lines of Game Code... using Over Exaggerated words Like Phase Cancellation etc. Just to say + or - this setting, that setting until it feels right just Makes and Keeps the FFB Over complicated and its Not... Its just Know what the settings do and + or - until things feel right:yes: Very Simple

GrimeyDog
13-08-2016, 17:32
Haiden have you done this??? I Mapped the Auto Clutch On/Off to a Button on the wheel Rim... Makes it Easy to Use the H pattern Shifter Mode with Manual Clutch without having to back out and go to settings... Push the Button and Auto Clutch can be turned On/Off on the Fly.... I find that using Manual Clucth with H pattern Shifting I have Much More Control and Realism.

Nothing Big just wondering if you had done this yet... If Not i Suggest doing so.

poirqc
13-08-2016, 17:47
Haiden have you done this??? I Mapped the Auto Clutch On/Off to a Button on the wheel Rim... Makes it Easy to Use the H pattern Shifter Mode with Manual Clutch without having to back out and go to settings... Push the Button and Auto Clutch can be turned On/Off on the Fly.... I find that using Manual Clucth with H pattern Shifting I have Much More Control and Realism.

Nothing Big just wondering if you had done this yet... If Not i Suggest doing so.

You have to manual cluth when using an H pattern shifter! :D

Haiden
13-08-2016, 18:28
Haiden have you done this??? I Mapped the Auto Clutch On/Off to a Button on the wheel Rim... Makes it Easy to Use the H pattern Shifter Mode with Manual Clutch without having to back out and go to settings... Push the Button and Auto Clutch can be turned On/Off on the Fly.... I find that using Manual Clucth with H pattern Shifting I have Much More Control and Realism.

Nothing Big just wondering if you had done this yet... If Not i Suggest doing so.

Yep. I'm using a mini keyboard, until I get a button box. I have a lot of the controls mapped to that. Worked with the PS4, too. Having the clutch switch is definitely handy. When I'm playing offline, I leave it off for all cars, though, even the paddle shifters, so if I spin and stall the engine it dies. I only turn it on for online racing. I have the engine start mapped, but there's always that second or two loss because I don't realize the car died...LOL

GrimeyDog
13-08-2016, 20:31
Cars that Paddle Shift don't Need the Clutch they just Bang through the Gears any way... I even just Sequential shift with shifter on cerrain cars just Because:yes:

The Older Cars are a Real Blast to Drive with the Shifter and Clutch!

Still Looking into a Gaming PC... But thats Gonna open up a whole other can of worms!!! Dedicated Gaming Monitor, Button Box etc...So far im already at almost 2k in Gaming upgrades for this year alone!!! Because i bought that 48UHD curved TV just for Gaming not to Mention the RS1, Shifter and HB!!!

Right Now i can Get a steady 100 to 120 fps on Assetto Corsa with No Tearing... I lock the Frams at 90 so i dont work the PC too Hard and i can turn up other settings But even at 60fps it blows PS4 away and i can turn the Graphic Settings even Higher!!! it only works 40% of the PC usage like that.... I may just Buy PCars to see how it Runs with Medium settings... I havent Really Read the Minimum Specs Needed for Pcars... Hmmm If PS4 can Run it then So should My PC just!!! I just wont be able to use Ultra settings... I may only be able to use Medium but it will still beat PS4.

Any PC Tec guys have input on this??? I know My way around a PC but i have Not been Looking into OC specs for a Bit so im way outta the loop...I think thats whats been stopping Me from Getting PCars on PC i dont wanna fet in over My Head and be stuck with a Game i cant use... But then this may be what Makes Me upgrade sooner:yes:

How Much is Pcars for PC??? Im Not Home so i cant Check.

Haiden
13-08-2016, 21:21
Cars that Paddle Shift don't Need the Clutch they just Bang through the Gears any way... I even just Sequential shift with shifter on cerrain cars just Because:yes:

The Older Cars are a Real Blast to Drive with the Shifter and Clutch!

Still Looking into a Gaming PC... But thats Gonna open up a whole other can of worms!!! Dedicated Gaming Monitor, Button Box etc...So far im already at almost 2k in Gaming upgrades for this year alone!!! Because i bought that 48UHD curved TV just for Gaming not to Mention the RS1, Shifter and HB!!!

Right Now i can Get a steady 100 to 120 fps on Assetto Corsa with No Tearing... I lock the Frams at 90 so i dont work the PC too Hard and i can turn up other settings But even at 60fps it blows PS4 away and i can turn the Graphic Settings even Higher!!! it only works 40% of the PC usage like that.... I may just Buy PCars to see how it Runs with Medium settings... I havent Really Read the Minimum Specs Needed for Pcars... Hmmm If PS4 can Run it then So should My PC just!!! I just wont be able to use Ultra settings... I may only be able to use Medium but it will still beat PS4.

Any PC Tec guys have input on this??? I know My way around a PC but i have Not been Looking into OC specs for a Bit so im way outta the loop...I think thats whats been stopping Me from Getting PCars on PC i dont wanna fet in over My Head and be stuck with a Game i cant use... But then this may be what Makes Me upgrade sooner:yes:

How Much is Pcars for PC??? Im Not Home so i cant Check.

The paddle shifters don't need the clutch to shift gears, but if you come to a complete stop without being in neutral, the engine will die, like in RL. I like that.

PCars for PC is $29. The special edition will all the DLC is $59.

Haiden
13-08-2016, 21:54
Grimey - I switched my pedals to USB connection this afternoon. They're like butter. It almost feels like you have ABS on. I can brush the brakes so light I can get more use out of them in the corners for small corrective action. I can also brake way late than I used to, and trail brake further into the corner. I didn't realize the increased pedal resolution would make such an improvement.

morpwr
13-08-2016, 23:03
Well, the fact your wheelīs linearity seems better at 75 FFB is an aspect to be considered, actually that FFB level has no impact on the linearity of a CSW v2,
I checked FF on the wheel at 100% and 70% only difference is a larger deadzone at 70%. BTW on PC I remember two instances where something was off
on FFB just of the sudden for unknown reason, a restart cured the issue.

Yes that is an issue. The t300 ramps up to max force very quickly after you go above 75. Which makes sense why they chose 75 as the default value. On the t300 it definitely changes the linearity and is easily seen in the fcm. The problem is on the ps4 the ffb gets corrupted and once it is youre done. Yes sometimes like you said a restart will fix but that usually not the case. Once it gets screwed up it every car and track. Unfortunately it just worked out when I changed to the new car setting that's when things went wrong so it seemed like the car settings. But they all work fine after a fresh install.

GrimeyDog
13-08-2016, 23:16
Grimey - I switched my pedals to USB connection this afternoon. They're like butter. It almost feels like you have ABS on. I can brush the brakes so light I can get more use out of them in the corners for small corrective action. I can also brake way late than I used to, and trail brake further into the corner. I didn't realize the increased pedal resolution would make such an improvement.

It Makes a huge Diff!!! When i went from the V1 pedals with 256 points of Movement to the V3 with 1024 points of movement the Diff was Notable Right away!! I think the V3 give 4000+ points of movement plugged directly into PC. Not sure about the # but i know its more.

The Verdict is in... I went to "can I Run it" and My PC Passed every test way above the Mark!!! except the Processor i Need to have that upgraded to run PCars.

I got a Quote on a i5 with the 1070 Graphics card and some Great other specs for $1,200 .... I will post the specs when i get home to see what PC guys think.

morpwr
13-08-2016, 23:18
Yep. I'm using a mini keyboard, until I get a button box. I have a lot of the controls mapped to that. Worked with the PS4, too. Having the clutch switch is definitely handy. When I'm playing offline, I leave it off for all cars, though, even the paddle shifters, so if I spin and stall the engine it dies. I only turn it on for online racing. I have the engine start mapped, but there's always that second or two loss because I don't realize the car died...LOL

Youre going to love the button box but now that youre on pc you can get the dashes too.

GrimeyDog
13-08-2016, 23:21
$1275 + Shipping - i5 6500k, 16GB DDR4, 120GB SSD, 1TB HD, 650W Gold Rated PSU, GTX 1070, Windows 10.

$1360 + Shipping - i5 6700k (overclocked), H60 Closed Loop Cooler, 16GB DDR4, 120GB SSD, 1 TB HD, 650W Gold PSU, GTX 1070, Windows 10.

Upgrades:

GTX 1080 + $225

240 GB SSD + $25


2 quotes for PC build same Guy... What do you PC guys think???

Its a No Brainer... if i do it i will go with build #2 + the 240 GB SSD.... Im Not doing tripples so i dont know if i want to add the 1080 Graphics card... But i will do VR when they perfect it.

He Tweeks the PC to perform at Max Game Settings also... He Builds and Tweeks the PC's for the guys at ISR.

Edit: Ive been off My PC tweek and Geek for a Bit so i have to do alot of Reading to catch up!!! In other words Help im Not sure what a Good PC build is at this point:victorious:

Haiden
14-08-2016, 00:10
Not sure about the processor. Check the benchmarks. There were two versions of the model one I got, and the lower end version actually out performed the higher end chip. The higher end chip was more powerful, but meant for heavy usage applications, like CAD.

The rest looks fine, just make sure the HD is 7200 rpm and the overclocking is stable before you take it home. :)

BigDad
14-08-2016, 14:12
Grimey , what mobo? That GTX 1070 should be a ripper . Just remember for overclocking you will need a Z170 mobo . Overclocking is quite cool , didnt think i would try it but with my 1060 not quite upto UHD stock on all titles getting +120Mhz on core and +550Mhz on memory made a rather large difference . I've ramped up the CPU also from 3.5GHz to 4.0GHz but still have more , maybe 4.2GHz on air cooling .Gained about 10-15fps .

Haiden , i'll have to put my pedals through USB then shall i ? Hadnt even thought about that yet .

morpwr
14-08-2016, 14:55
Not sure about the processor. Check the benchmarks. There were two versions of the model one I got, and the lower end version actually out performed the higher end chip. The higher end chip was more powerful, but meant for heavy usage applications, like CAD.

The rest looks fine, just make sure the HD is 7200 rpm and the overclocking is stable before you take it home. :)

I'm interested to see if the game is more stable with all you guys going to pc. I was thinking about it last night I should have known something was going wrong because I was getting a lot more of the skipping almost like you hit something but didn't. I was looking at the pc stuff last night and started thinking about building my own. I know for the most part everything cant be put in wrong as its all keyed and color coded. Might be a cool project.

Haiden
14-08-2016, 14:57
Open wheeler's on Assetto Corsa's is insanely fun. The F1-like experience in the Lotus is hard to beat. Very addictive. :)

Roger Prynne
14-08-2016, 14:57
I'm interested to see if the game is more stable with all you guys going to pc. I was thinking about it last night I should have known something was going wrong because I was getting a lot more of the skipping almost like you hit something but didn't. I was looking at the pc stuff last night and started thinking about building my own. I know for the most part everything cant be put in wrong as its all keyed and color coded. Might be a cool project.

It's really easy to build it yourself, Iv'e been doing it for years.

Haiden
14-08-2016, 15:26
It's really easy to build it yourself, Iv'e been doing it for years.

It is. I used to build my own, before I went to console gaming. It's been more than ten year, though, which is why I just let Microcenter do it. The $130 was worth it for me. Still came out way cheaper than buying a pre-built.

To answer your question, though. PC is way more stable than console. Can't remember the resolution difference between direct and base connection for TM pedals, but if there's an improvement, you'll definitely like it. It's made a world of difference for me. I have so much more brake and throttle control. My lap times are down by a whole second, and I'm still getting used to the new feel.

rosko
14-08-2016, 15:49
I downloaded it last night. It's pretty cool. Much better than I expected. The car line up is great, at least for me, because it's got what I like. I have to admit, the GUI is shit, way too convoluted, but I'm sure I'll get used to it. Everything there, but from a design perspective, there isn't good separation/differentiation to make options stand out. Maybe it's just me. The FOV settings are going to take a bit to get right, too. The track is too narrow for me, but when I lower the FOV and get the track width to a decent size, I lose too much windshield space, and then can't see where I'm going...LOL

But the FFB is really good. I still need to do some tweaking, though. I played for about an hour last night, then went back to PCars to finish getting that setup. I have to say, it's hard to judge the graphics in a comparison, because the engines are so different. Both are awesome on PC, but I'm not sure which one I'd say is the best yet. I have to play more. I do know the Nords looks way better on AC, though. Not the graphic quality, but the road detail. It's amazing!

The canned effect really work with AC, especially the feel of the track surface. But I wouldn't consider it better than PCars. I'm glad they both took different approaches, because it makes for two very different experiences. AC's physics do seem tougher than PCars. I think, from that perspective, its more simulation style, and requires more focus and control to turn a fast lap. I was loving the first hour.

That's said, when I went back to PCars, and immediately realize that I will love both of these games. PCars felt great when I came back to it. PCars' FFB on PC is way more nuanced than on console. I started with 2.9 to make sure I could feel the difference, and it was amazing.

Are you sure AC uses canned effects? I know that gets posted on this forum allot but go to their own forum & they say it is not apart from the kerb effects. Just my take on AC & Pcars, I've put many hours into both, AC has definitely made great improvements. I've spent many hours comparing the 2 to the point of getting a bit obsessed.
Graphically both games are very good, AC has better track detail but then the furniture & crowds are not so great. The cars are imo possibly better than pcars. Pcars has better effects. in 4K both games look amazing. In VR its not so straight forward, i think AC probably looks better, it has less issues with glitching shadows & textures.
FFB ok this is a difficult one, I think if you have a fanatec or better, then the FFb is probably good. With my tm300 its not so good, there is currently no way to fix deadzone or linearity. The road feel imo is not as good as pcars not even close, to me it feels canned even if they say it isn't. At the moment i'm not getting under-steer ffb in pcars (ive started a separate post) but over steer & road feel is better. Like i say it is probably much better with a good wheel but note, there is little to go on to try to fix a problem if you have one. Also to me in AC the cars FFB is pretty similar from car to car but in pcars the cars can feel significantly different.
Handling again, interesting, less grip on the road cars, the cars all round feel more solid in AC they seem to bounce around much less than in pcars from what i can tell. I have no idea which of the 2 is more accurate handling. I think the tyre models are better in AC but all i can say is the cars handling feels very different & i do wonder why that is. The mx5 in the game in comparison to my own isn't that accurate imo, irl the suspension seems softer but then its a newer model in the game. The Lotus Elise is pretty accurate though.

Haiden
14-08-2016, 22:01
Are you sure AC uses canned effects? I know that gets posted on this forum allot but go to their own forum & they say it is not apart from the kerb effects. Just my take on AC & Pcars, I've put many hours into both, AC has definitely made great improvements. I've spent many hours comparing the 2 to the point of getting a bit obsessed.
Graphically both games are very good, AC has better track detail but then the furniture & crowds are not so great. The cars are imo possibly better than pcars. Pcars has better effects. in 4K both games look amazing. In VR its not so straight forward, i think AC probably looks better, it has less issues with glitching shadows & textures.
FFB ok this is a difficult one, I think if you have a fanatec or better, then the FFb is probably good. With my tm300 its not so good, there is currently no way to fix deadzone or linearity. The road feel imo is not as good as pcars not even close, to me it feels canned even if they say it isn't. At the moment i'm not getting under-steer ffb in pcars (ive started a separate post) but over steer & road feel is better. Like i say it is probably much better with a good wheel but note, there is little to go on to try to fix a problem if you have one. Also to me in AC the cars FFB is pretty similar from car to car but in pcars the cars can feel significantly different.
Handling again, interesting, less grip on the road cars, the cars all round feel more solid in AC they seem to bounce around much less than in pcars from what i can tell. I have no idea which of the 2 is more accurate handling. I think the tyre models are better in AC but all i can say is the cars handling feels very different & i do wonder why that is. The mx5 in the game in comparison to my own isn't that accurate imo, irl the suspension seems softer but then its a newer model in the game. The Lotus Elise is pretty accurate though.

No. I'm not sure. Only going by by what I've heard and read. But the more I spend time with AC, the more I'm starting to realize that it doesn't matter if they are or aren't, because the FFB is absolutely amazing. The cars do feel different to me, but maybe not a varied as they do in PCars. I've started setting road car FF=70-75, high performance cars FF=75-80, and high DF cars FF=85. It's added a little more differentiation for me. But, IMO, the high downforce cars feel better than do in PCars. I can clearly feel the weight and grip increase as I accelerate.

You can resolve deadzone issue in AC by using the Minimum Force Level setting. That will raise the force curve to your above your deadzone. If you ran WheelCheck for PCars or the FCM tool, you can use the deadzone value from there.

rosko
14-08-2016, 22:27
No. I'm not sure. Only going by by what I've heard and read. But the more I spend time with AC, the more I'm starting to realize that it doesn't matter if they are or aren't, because the FFB is absolutely amazing. The cars do feel different to me, but maybe not a varied as they do in PCars. I've started setting road car FF=70-75, high performance cars FF=75-80, and high DF cars FF=85. It's added a little more differentiation for me. But, IMO, the high downforce cars feel better than do in PCars. I can clearly feel the weight and grip increase as I accelerate.

You can resolve deadzone issue in AC by using the Minimum Force Level setting. That will raise the force curve to your above your deadzone. If you ran WheelCheck for PCars or the FCM tool, you can use the deadzone value from there.

Thanks for the tip on the deadzone, will give that a go tomorrow as that is the main issue for me. There is little FFB in the middle unless i turn it all up, then it just feels too much when i turn. somebody did make a tool to fix linearity but it doesn't seem to work properly.

The new red pack they had out recently was awesome & really looking forward to the Porsche pack.

BigDad
15-08-2016, 01:19
I'm interested to see if the game is more stable with all you guys going to pc. I was thinking about it last night I should have known something was going wrong because I was getting a lot more of the skipping almost like you hit something but didn't. I was looking at the pc stuff last night and started thinking about building my own. I know for the most part everything cant be put in wrong as its all keyed and color coded. Might be a cool project.

I had ordered my parts for delivery in two days abd the guy supplying the parts said it would be $50 to build with 2yrs warranty. So I saved myself the work and got the warranty, lol. I was kind of looking forward to the build but also a little concerned I might stuff it.

BigDad
15-08-2016, 01:33
No. I'm not sure. Only going by by what I've heard and read. But the more I spend time with AC, the more I'm starting to realize that it doesn't matter if they are or aren't, because the FFB is absolutely amazing. The cars do feel different to me, but maybe not a varied as they do in PCars. I've started setting road car FF=70-75, high performance cars FF=75-80, and high DF cars FF=85. It's added a little more differentiation for me. But, IMO, the high downforce cars feel better than do in PCars. I can clearly feel the weight and grip increase as I accelerate.

You can resolve deadzone issue in AC by using the Minimum Force Level setting. That will raise the force curve to your above your deadzone. If you ran WheelCheck for PCars or the FCM tool, you can use the deadzone value from there.

If you've ever watched Stefano'slive stream on YouTube, when he talks about the ffb he says that he doesn't have to do anything the physics do it all, "it just happens" from the car wheels to your wheel . So I don't think it has Canned ffb. There is a tick box in the advanced menu that is for the canned understeer.

GrimeyDog
15-08-2016, 10:18
No. I'm not sure. Only going by by what I've heard and read. But the more I spend time with AC, the more I'm starting to realize that it doesn't matter if they are or aren't, because the FFB is absolutely amazing. The cars do feel different to me, but maybe not a varied as they do in PCars. I've started setting road car FF=70-75, high performance cars FF=75-80, and high DF cars FF=85. It's added a little more differentiation for me. But, IMO, the high downforce cars feel better than do in PCars. I can clearly feel the weight and grip increase as I accelerate.

You can resolve deadzone issue in AC by using the Minimum Force Level setting. That will raise the force curve to your above your deadzone. If you ran WheelCheck for PCars or the FCM tool, you can use the deadzone value from there.

I agree 100% that it Makes No Diff if the FFB uses canned effects or No because the FFB and Road feel is Really Good and Not Too over exaggerated... Good FFB and Road Feel is what Matters Most Canned or Not.

The Only Place Pcars Clearly wins is in SOP feel... But!!! When i turn SOP MS to 0 both games feel Very Much the Same... I dont even change My on wheel settings FFB profile!!! On Whee FFBl 65% Pcars and AC.

AC wins when it comes to Brake Lock up while going into a Corner...But this maybe because i have more time playing Pcars and im Not locking up the Brakes because i have a better understanding of road corering feel:confused:...I always drive No matter the Game With No Assist.

Bottom Line is they both Feel Good.

also Now that im Not tweeking around with the Global settings i find PS4 Pcars Very Stable... Maybe i have 1 Game Crash a month... I checked the system error report and the last time Ocars Crashed was early June so its pretty stable... Every Now and then when i let the Game/Wheel sit Idke for a long time 15min or more i have the wheel No FFB issue or when i use the controler to enter a race instead of the wheel the FFB gets wacky but its either back out and reliad or unplug the wheel from PS4 5 secs and plug it back in usually 99% of the time gets it straight.

Haiden
15-08-2016, 12:58
The more I play AC, the more I like it. Have you guys seen this? It's similar to the custom grid app for PCars, but takes full control of the AC interface and launches sessions. I think I might give it a try.

http://assettocorsa.club/content-manager.html

RobboCod
15-08-2016, 13:25
I honestly have no idea why all of the sudden I needed such a drastic change. Its never happened before with your settings. That's the only thing I can think of is when you fixed more of the phase cancelation problems it caused issues with the rab. The new settings are very clear I guess I would call it with an overall better feel in all the cars I tried last night. Nice job!!!!!

What is your current RAB setting for Jack's new version at the moment? Not been on Pcars for a while but want to get on and make these adjustments.
Thanks

GrimeyDog
15-08-2016, 14:18
Haiden, Big Dad try turning the SOP Scale to 0 and judge how AC and PCars feel... without Pcars SOP they feel basicly the same.

dawgpaws11
15-08-2016, 14:35
Haiden,
How are the Ferrari F1 cars in AC? So pumped to drive a couple different modern F1 cars... codemasters is such a let down in FB

Jezza819
15-08-2016, 15:05
I'm still having Formula A issues. Using Jack's numbers fixed the wheel oscillation problem. However now the steering wheel is very light and slow to respond and there's not much curb feel. I've used Classic, Fy + SoP Lateral, 66%, and Bumps Plus. Out of those 66% feels the best but I would like to tighten up the wheel a bit and get a little better curb feel.

Maybe raise the master a bit?

I remember way back in the day I was taking his Fy + SoP Lateral numbers and adding about 10 to each number to get more of what I wanted to feel.

Jack Spade
15-08-2016, 15:27
I'm still having Formula A issues. Using Jack's numbers fixed the wheel oscillation problem. However now the steering wheel is very light and slow to respond and there's not much curb feel. I've used Classic, Fy + SoP Lateral, 66%, and Bumps Plus. Out of those 66% feels the best but I would like to tighten up the wheel a bit and get a little better curb feel.

Maybe raise the master a bit?

I remember way back in the day I was taking his Fy + SoP Lateral numbers and adding about 10 to each number to get more of what I wanted to feel.

If you donīt have oscillation issues increase Mz, on the FA I think I have it at 0.2, 0.3 or 0.35 is appropriate, unfortunately curb response isnīt
good on this car. Note, all high downforce cars have lots of dynamic.

Also note, my sets are based on certain ratios adding the same value to all forces will destroy the balance, for instance Fy mostly is twice or even
way more stronger than Mz. On high downforce cars I kept Mz lower than normal to avoid oscillation.

Haiden
15-08-2016, 17:12
Haiden,
How are the Ferrari F1 cars in AC? So pumped to drive a couple different modern F1 cars... codemasters is such a let down in FB

Very impressive! In fact, there's really no comparison with PCars, in terms of handling and feel. The problem is, there aren't many options. On PC, the games comes with the Lotus, and they added two Ferrari's to the mix with the Red Pack, but there aren't many livery options (none for the Ferraris), so a full grid looks kind of silly. You can download liveries on PC. Not sure what the game will ship with on console. That said, the livery issue is the only problem. The cars are fantastic--blows Codemasters away.


I'm still having Formula A issues. Using Jack's numbers fixed the wheel oscillation problem. However now the steering wheel is very light and slow to respond and there's not much curb feel. I've used Classic, Fy + SoP Lateral, 66%, and Bumps Plus. Out of those 66% feels the best but I would like to tighten up the wheel a bit and get a little better curb feel.

Maybe raise the master a bit?

I remember way back in the day I was taking his Fy + SoP Lateral numbers and adding about 10 to each number to get more of what I wanted to feel.

This is definitely one of the cars that feels a little off with the new settings. My experience was exactly as you described above. Raising Mz will help.

Haiden
15-08-2016, 17:19
Haiden, Big Dad try turning the SOP Scale to 0 and judge how AC and PCars feel... without Pcars SOP they feel basicly the same.

I'll give it a shot. Played AC for hours over the weekend. Finally went back to PCars last night, and it felt very strange. Could have been a bad FFB load, but I'm going to have to do some more comparative testing. Having AC, gives me something to model the PCars FFB against, but they've taken two very different approaches to FFB. I'm pretty sure AC is using some canned effects. Neither good or bad, from a judgement standpoint, but it does make duplication a little difficult. I'm using the enhanced understeer option in AC. I'm going to turn that off, get a feel for the normal FFB, and then compare that to PCars.

konnos
15-08-2016, 21:17
AC is claiming no canned FFB effects, but people are generally recommending to not use the added effects at the bottom, I personally like the enhanced understeer. The FFB is AC does a very good job all in all, predictable and consistent. But when I do laps in Brands or Nordschleife with BWM m3 and z4 (combos existing in both games so I can compare directly) I always feel that PCars has got something right and does the right thing to get me more immersed, it's that feeling being on the edge of grip that is quite well delivered. BUT. I did confirm something I had a feeling of, even before I got into AC. There is very little build up from wheel center to full force while cornering in PCars. I tried a lot with scoops etc to get it to be more linear, driving dead center to full force while cornering (at whatever speed), however, the force goes to its max (for that speed) pretty quickly and stays there.

This approach has one advantage and one disadvantage. The advantage is that the game doesn't care to show you the in-between forces, it shows you your current grip level and then uses forces to let you know how you are balancing around that area. The disadvantage is that this is not very intuitive as a driver, it is weird, until you realise what the game is trying to convey with its FFB system (grip levels as described above). AC kinda simulated rack forces more and doesn't do grip levels as well as PCars, as far as I can understand. One other thing that bothered me in PCars (and still does) is that cars generally feel quite floaty even at slower speeds, in AC they seem to stick (sometimes too well or maybe I got used to PCars...). Also in PCars the FFB seems to almost stick a little when you take some high speed turns, like it's correcting itself a little, I don't know how to describe it.

All in all, I always prefer PCars FFB and physics, but I have to admit it takes turns more convincingly, but with less feeling.

Haiden
15-08-2016, 21:41
AC is claiming no canned FFB effects, but people are generally recommending to not use the added effects at the bottom, I personally like the enhanced understeer. The FFB is AC does a very good job all in all, predictable and consistent. But when I do laps in Brands or Nordschleife with BWM m3 and z4 (combos existing in both games so I can compare directly) I always feel that PCars has got something right and does the right thing to get me more immersed, it's that feeling being on the edge of grip that is quite well delivered. BUT. I did confirm something I had a feeling of, even before I got into AC. There is very little build up from wheel center to full force while cornering in PCars. I tried a lot with scoops etc to get it to be more linear, driving dead center to full force while cornering (at whatever speed), however, the force goes to its max (for that speed) pretty quickly and stays there.

This approach has one advantage and one disadvantage. The advantage is that the game doesn't care to show you the in-between forces, it shows you your current grip level and then uses forces to let you know how you are balancing around that area. The disadvantage is that this is not very intuitive as a driver, it is weird, until you realise what the game is trying to convey with its FFB system (grip levels as described above). AC kinda simulated rack forces more and doesn't do grip levels as well as PCars, as far as I can understand. One other thing that bothered me in PCars (and still does) is that cars generally feel quite floaty even at slower speeds, in AC they seem to stick (sometimes too well or maybe I got used to PCars...). Also in PCars the FFB seems to almost stick a little when you take some high speed turns, like it's correcting itself a little, I don't know how to describe it.

All in all, I always prefer PCars FFB and physics, but I have to admit it takes turns more convincingly, but with less feeling.

This is what I meant by two different approaches. It's hard to explain, but you did it better than I could have. It's also why it's hard to choose one over the other. Side by side, I'd described them as...

Project Cars = More Visceral
Assetto Corsa = More Technical

Now that doesn't mean the other is bad at the other's strength. That's just what I think they both excel at.

BigDad
15-08-2016, 23:01
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/08/15/ps4-system-software-4-00-will-feature-folders-ui-refresh-more/
Here it comes. Turn off auto update if you want to keeps Fanatec support.

GrimeyDog
15-08-2016, 23:01
Project Cars Definitly has the Edge over Assetto Corsa when it Comes to Simulation of Real Driving Physics Weight Transfer, SOP..

The Steering in Pcars feels Much More Dynamic it uses Constant wheel weight fluctuations to Create the Dynamic Range of FFB feel... IMO you feel a much wider Range of FFB forces i Pcars than in Assetto Corsa... Assetto Corsa relies mostly on increasing steering wheel weight through out the entire turning Range to simulate weight transfer feel while Still providing a Really Good Over/Understeer sensory input with out major wheel weight changes.

2 very different FFB methods but both provide a really Good Feel in their own way

IMO Assetto Corsa is Really Well put together...it has a really Good balance of Sim with just the right touch of Arcade Canned effects while still being Really Fun and Challenging.

Pcars Give Really Good Grip Limit Feel into and out of turns.

Assetto Corsa Give Really Brake Lock up Under/Oversteer feel in and out of turns.

They Both have strong FFB aspects that sets them apart... Truth is if they were to combine the Best of Pcars with the Best of Assetto corsa i dont think it would be a Good Feel in 1 Game... Its just 2 different types of FFB being used to create 2 totaly Different types of FFB Dynamic feel... They are Both just awsome Games.

GrimeyDog
15-08-2016, 23:50
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/08/15/ps4-system-software-4-00-will-feature-folders-ui-refresh-more/
Here it comes. Turn off auto update if you want to keeps Fanatec support.

I took My PS4 off auto update last week!!! I may even just unplug it from the internet when im Not on!!!

Is this the update that is supposed to disable fanatec wheels? if so Can you link the part where it says it will disable fanatec gear... I dont see it... I want to be 100% sure!!! Im still looking at PC upgrade as i type.

BigDad
16-08-2016, 00:22
I took My PS4 off auto update last week!!! I may even just unplug it from the internet when im Not on!!!

Is this the uodate that is supposed to disable fanatec wheels? if so Can you link the part where it says it will disable fanatec gear... I dont see it... I want to be 100% sure!!! Im still looking at PC upgrade as i type.

Mate,I don't think $ony will advertise the fact they are removing features or support. But yes I think this would be the update if there is going to be one as It was rumoured to be in August and here is a update in August.
Just makes sense.

GrimeyDog
16-08-2016, 13:11
Well it is Now Official!!! When i awoke this Morning i had 1 prevalent thought in mind...its time!!! No more Stalling, No More Stradling the Fence!!! Grimeydog will be Going to the Dark Side... Yes im Going PC!!! I will be going to Micro Center soon as im off work!!!

Can any 1 post some Suggested PC specs that i should Request for a Really Good PC build that will do 4k??? I dont want to get Scammed because i dont know what im Looking for and dont Know what to ask for in a PC build.
I will be going to Micro Center soon as i get off work:yes:

I am Now More than ever Mentaly Ready to do it... im really curiouse to see how My FFB settings translate to PC:yes: the Dark Side is just waiting to be explored and Conquored:loyal: Im Ready.

Edit: I was Looking at the online Quote i got and figured why spend extra $$$ on Shipping and insurace cost when i could spend that extra $$$ towards the PC build Locally... It just Makes more sense:p

poirqc
16-08-2016, 13:33
Well it is Now Official!!! When i awoke this Morning i had 1 prevalent thought in mind...its time!!! No more Stalling, No More Stradling the Fence!!! Grimeydog will be Going to the Dark Side... Yes im Going PC!!! I will be going to Micro Center soon as im off work!!!

Can any 1 post some Suggested PC specs that i should Request for a Really Good PC build that will do 4k??? I dont want to get Scammed because i dont know what im Looking for and dont Know what to ask for in a PC build.
I will be going to Micro Center soon as i get off work:yes:

I am Now More than ever Mentaly Ready to do it... im really curiouse to see how My FFB settings translate to PC:yes: the Dark Side is just waiting to be explored and Conquored:loyal: Im Ready.

Edit: I was Looking at the online Quote i got and figured why spend extra $$$ on Shipping and insurace cost when i could spend that extra $$$ towards the PC build Locally... It just Makes more sense:p

It's been a while since i build mine, but if you look at the whole picture, aim for a balanced system. There's no need to have 1 piece that is super fast when the rest of the system can't keep up. Get an SSD, even the lowest one. A quality PSU is also a must. RAM speed doesn't make much of a difference now. It's better to spend for more than faster RAM.

You're probably going to get more tips if you post a thread in the general section.

BigDad
16-08-2016, 14:30
wanna do UHD ultra get what Haden got. You aret gonna get better than a GTX 1080 unless you get 2 or a Titan . Or get a GTX 1070 or get what i got (specs in sig). I'm running AC UHD with high and ultra @60fps ,not everything ultra but for me and the $'s i dont think you can get better without spending $2000 usd .
No Mans Sky i can only get 1440p @60fps maxxed but im sure the GTX 1080 would get UHD @60fps mine drops to 30fps which is the fps of ps4 but 4x resolution .
I'm fuuuking wrapped . everything looks amazing , i just cant stop looking at AC , the reflections the mirrors , the shadows. @ 4K you dont even need AA but set it to max anyway ,lol

GrimeyDog
16-08-2016, 15:00
http://www.techspot.com/review/1000-project-cars-benchmarks/
Very interesting article about graphics cards and Pcars... i dont know what update Pcars was on so these specs may have gotten better... Im just looking for as much info as i can get.
Ive been reading up on graphics cards and Pcars... I dont know the exact PC specs but it seems that all of the cards struggle with Pcars to Keep 60fps with ultra settings and when you turn the rain on the fps drops with all of them.

I dunno what card im going with 1070, 1080 or the Titan... but i dont plan to do tripple Screens:confused: well at least not at this moment... I will use My current TV until VR gets better.

BigDad
16-08-2016, 15:10
yeah that over a year ago . A 970 gets 60fps @1080p now .

Haiden
16-08-2016, 16:40
http://www.techspot.com/review/1000-project-cars-benchmarks/
Very interesting article about graphics cards and Pcars... i dont know what update Pcars was on so these specs may have gotten better... Im just looking for as much info as i can get.
Ive been reading up on graphics cards and Pcars... I dont know the exact PC specs but it seems that all of the cards struggle with Pcars to Keep 60fps with ultra settings and when you turn the rain on the fps drops with all of them.

I dunno what card im going with 1070, 1080 or the Titan... but i dont plan to do tripple Screens:confused: well at least not at this moment... I will use My current TV until VR gets better.

I picked up a 4K, Sunday, and have been loving the crap out of PCars and AC!!! Both games look amazing, and I can't see any of that nasty anti-aliasing in PCars anymore, just smooth lines and curves. :)

If your MicroCenter is like the one out here, they'll either know or be able to look up the CPU specs. Make sure you get the CPU that best rated for gaming, not just the fastest processor. The faster chips are sometimes made for different applications, like CAD, and don't do as well for gaming.

I got A GTX 1080, because I wanted to run ultra 4K for now, and plan to get triples screens next year. The 1080 supports up to four screen. Unless you're going to pay a crap load, most 4Ks, say they 120Hz, but that's the enhanced motion rate speed, and they're actually 60Hz. The 1080 can run AC and PC on Ultra above 60 fps. But it varies (a lot on PCars) going from 60-100, the pseudo 120Hz can't keep up, so I run V-Sync. The V-Sync uses the TV's real refresh rate, so it locks the game at 60Hz. With V-Sync enabled, AC is a very stable 60Hz, across the board. PCars, depending on the track, will dip to 55-60, nothing major. And if you dial a reflection/glare setting down a notch, you can stabilize it.

If you were running the 1080 on a PC gaming monitor with a true 120Hz, you might not need V-Sync, and the games would be running well above 60 fps.


Edit: Adjusted the frame rates. I was used the HD numbers by mistake. I'll test rain this afternoon.

Haiden
16-08-2016, 16:45
Haiden,
How are the Ferrari F1 cars in AC? So pumped to drive a couple different modern F1 cars... codemasters is such a let down in FB

Downloaded this one today. It's a whole lot of fun! Can't believe it's free.

http://assettocorsa.club/mods/auto/ferrari-f1-concept.html#en

GrimeyDog
16-08-2016, 19:49
My Build Specs.... Sooo Far.... I may run 2x 1070 graphics cards... I dunno yet.... its being Built Now!!! Im Very Excited!!!

rosko
16-08-2016, 20:41
The more I play AC, the more I like it. Have you guys seen this? It's similar to the custom grid app for PCars, but takes full control of the AC interface and launches sessions. I think I might give it a try.

http://assettocorsa.club/content-manager.html

that look very sharp, will definitely give that a go.

rosko
16-08-2016, 20:47
My Build Specs.... Sooo Far.... I may run 2x 1070 graphics cards... I dunno yet.... its being Built Now!!! Im Very Excited!!!

Very nice. I think if you want 4k you may need to go with 2 1070s. I would personally just go for VR instead of 4k though.

Haiden
16-08-2016, 22:28
The new view. And it's on wheels. :)

I actually have to look up to see the pit sign...LOL


235446

235447

And the new engine.

235448

GrimeyDog
16-08-2016, 23:10
Very nice. I think if you want 4k you may need to go with 2 1070s. I would personally just go for VR instead of 4k though.

According to the guy that did the build 4k will be No problem:yes: The PC build shouldn't even break a sweat is what he said...i was going top tier and go with the i7 but the guy said it would be of No use right Now because No game is taking advantage of the extra power...its a 6th gen i5 chip i bought, the guy that did the build said by the time i need a i7 they will be much cheaper and the next gen i5/i7 will be better!!! The beauty of it is the Mother board its all basically plug and play pop the old chip out plug the next chip in...maybe i will do the 2 *1070 graphics cards* He said it would just make the PC stronger but Not Notably smoother because I'm only using 1 screen in 4k... i dunno but i cant wait till Fri or Sat when its ready to see what it can do... Now i have to Do a lotta reading on the PC tec so i can catch up a bit...i have to admit its been that long since i left PC gaming alone for XB360/PS3 that i feel kinda lost right now:confused: I was looking the 1000 and 850w power supply the guy asked was i trying to build Ultron???...LOL...he just laughed and informed Me that powerful PC's don't require nearly as much power as they once did and ensured Me that even with two 1070 graphics cards i have more than enough power with 750w!!!... To that i say He better be right!!! I'm getting the 3yr warranty that covers every part in the build so anything go wrong...Not My problem:no::cool: take it back and they fix it for free:yes:

In any event the Hard part is done with now the rest will be just upgrading when i want more power.

The PC case is a Beast!!! sooo much upgrade space...
3 fans with a vented top i can put more fans up there if i need or want... i didn't do liquid cooling the guy said they have a short lifespan but i can upgrade to it any time i wanted to:yes:

http://c773974.r74.cf2.rackcdn.com/441509_522086_01_front_thumbnail.jpg?1471387435841http://c773974.r74.cf2.rackcdn.com/441509_522086_05_front_mini.jpghttp://c773974.r74.cf2.rackcdn.com/441509_522086_03_front_mini.jpghttp://c773974.r74.cf2.rackcdn.com/441509_522086_04_front_mini.jpg

poirqc
16-08-2016, 23:13
The new view. And it's on wheels. :)

I actually have to look up to see the pit sign...LOL


235446

235447

And the new engine.

235448

Nice setup!

You're the king of your domain, naturaly, but itn't the hand and wheel redundant since you have yours in front of you?

Haiden
16-08-2016, 23:22
You're the king of your domain, naturaly, but itn't the hand and wheel redundant since you have yours in front of you?

Helps when setting up the FOV. Once that's straight, I don't need them.

poirqc
17-08-2016, 00:35
Helps when setting up the FOV. Once that's straight, I don't need them.

I never really tought of that. Nice tip!

Now, i need to buy a TV!

GrimeyDog
17-08-2016, 00:35
Nice setup!

You're the king of your domain, naturaly, but itn't the hand and wheel redundant since you have yours in front of you?


I do that too... i just recently took the hand and wheel off the screen... it doesn't bother Me at all i barley notice it except for when i was tweeking to see how close RL to on screen hand movement is...Its always 99.95% 1 to 1!!!

dawgpaws11
17-08-2016, 01:15
Downloaded this one today. It's a whole lot of fun! Can't believe it's free.

http://assettocorsa.club/mods/auto/ferrari-f1-concept.html#en



So pumped. Wish AC was coming this week instead of F1 2016. Ugh. Just want to drive some good F1!!!!

GrimeyDog
17-08-2016, 01:29
I picked up a 4K, Sunday, and have been loving the crap out of PCars and AC!!! Both games look amazing, and I can't see any of that nasty anti-aliasing in PCars anymore, just smooth lines and curves. :)

If your MicroCenter is like the one out here, they'll either know or be able to look up the CPU specs. Make sure you get the CPU that best rated for gaming, not just the fastest processor. The faster chips are sometimes made for different applications, like CAD, and don't do as well for gaming.

I got A GTX 1080, because I wanted to run ultra 4K for now, and plan to get triples screens next year. The 1080 supports up to four screen. Unless you're going to pay a crap load, most 4Ks, say they 120Hz, but that's the enhanced motion rate speed, and they're actually 60Hz. The 1080 can run AC and PC on Ultra above 60 fps. But it varies (a lot on PCars) going from 60-100, the pseudo 120Hz can't keep up, so I run V-Sync. The V-Sync uses the TV's real refresh rate, so it locks the game at 60Hz. With V-Sync enabled, AC is a very stable 60Hz, across the board. PCars, depending on the track, will dip to 55-60, nothing major. And if you dial a reflection/glare setting down a notch, you can stabilize it.

If you were running the 1080 on a PC gaming monitor with a true 120Hz, you might not need V-Sync, and the games would be running well above 60 fps.


Edit: Adjusted the frame rates. I was used the HD numbers by mistake. I'll test rain this afternoon.

I went with All pure gaming parts even the mother board is specific for gaming
MSI Z170A GAMING M5 LGA 1151 ATX Intel Motherboard Z170A GAMING M5 - Micro Center (http://www.microcenter.com/product/452418/Z170A_GAMING_M5_LGA_1151_ATX_Intel_Motherboard)

also what you mention about the TV's is true!!! My 48in Samsung Curved UHD i use for gaming is 120htz...but the 40in Samsung i use to watch TV, movies on...its a 3D TV so its 240htz!!! I remember when i was using it for a gaming TV i was getting 100fps steady playing Assetto Corsa!!! They are both recent model TV's also...bought the 40in 3D TV black friday 2014 and the 48in Black friday 2015!!!... i never really thought about it... I always just figured the UHD would be faster fps and never really thought about it until Now...but yes i know and confirm what you say is true about pseudo 120htz!!!

Haiden
17-08-2016, 12:07
I went with All pure gaming parts even the mother board is specific for gaming
MSI Z170A GAMING M5 LGA 1151 ATX Intel Motherboard Z170A GAMING M5 - Micro Center (http://www.microcenter.com/product/452418/Z170A_GAMING_M5_LGA_1151_ATX_Intel_Motherboard)

also what you mention about the TV's is true!!! My 48in Samsung Curved UHD i use for gaming is 120htz...but the 40in Samsung i use to watch TV, movies on...its a 3D TV so its 240htz!!! I remember when i was using it for a gaming TV i was getting 100fps steady playing Assetto Corsa!!! They are both recent model TV's also...bought the 40in 3D TV black friday 2014 and the 48in Black friday 2015!!!... i never really thought about it... I always just figured the UHD would be faster fps and never really thought about it until Now...but yes i know and confirm what you say is true about pseudo 120htz!!!

That's the same MBO I got. Very good board. Yeah... That's thing, unless you're gonna spend $2K+, almost every 50"+ TV you see is advertising a Motion Rate, not the actual refresh rate. The actual refresh rate is usual half of the Motion Rate, so a 240 motion rate, would v-sync at 120. I don't watch a lot of TV, so for now, I want the 4K on the gaming rig. When I switch to triples, I'll move the 4K to living room, and sell the old 55".

The thing is, I don't want to do triples with anything less than 35" screens, which I think are the largest gaming monitors you can get. Gaming monitors are the only way I can get real refresh rates of 120Hz at decent price, but they're just not as tall as TVs. I think height is just as important as width, even more so in triple setup, because width isn't a problem with three screens. But if you don't have enough height, it makes it look like you're driving through a slit, which I find less immersive because I can see above and below the display. :confused:


Ran a full grid on the Nordschleife in Thunderstorm conditions on Ultra settings. I was gett 45-50 fps, because of the weather, the 45 fps didn't seem that bad. It was stable, so it ran smooth at that speed. Still though, PCars is a little clunky, so it doesn't surprise me.

GrimeyDog
17-08-2016, 13:02
45 to 50 is still better than yhe 30fps on Console!!!
is there a FPS clock in PC version of Pcars??? I know there is 1 on Assetto Corsa.

Im pretty Happy with the PC build... The Guy said its Really Good Specs and by the time i Need More graphics power the Graphics cards will be Much Cheaper and i can just plug the Next card in in SLI mode and thats that...i just made sure i hade a Strong enough power supply (750w) to Run 2 cards No problem so i dont have to change too much stuff later... What power supply did you go with???

Yeah you did it again!!! Congrats on pulling Me to the Dark Side�� PC Gaming!!!

The Part that got Me was when you and Roger p were talking about how the AI was much more intuitive because of the Faster/ better PC processing power!!! Thats what pushed Me.over the Top!!!

For Me playing in 4k VS 1080p is Not such a big deal... Thats probably because I've Never played in 4k before LOL!!! Whats most important to Me is Good FFB feel and a Good Racing Experience No mateer if its On or Off Line....Im looking for the Most Immersive and Challenging Racing Experience.

GrimeyDog
17-08-2016, 14:33
https://support.505games.com/support/solutions/articles/6000144595-are-steering-wheels-supported-by-assetto-corsa-

Hmmm.... I wonder what this Means??? Fanatec wheels are Not Officially Licened for PS4!!! We Know they will work on the XB1 because of the XB1 Hub Rim Combo.

GrimeyDog
17-08-2016, 14:38
http://www.isrtv.com/forums/uploads/monthly_2016_08/57b36e5810554_s-l1600(1).jpg.18935046e607a374932f3c8c8420aecf.jpg

Pictures of Fanatecs New CSL E wheel!!!
Looks like it can use the same rims as tge V2/V1 base... I wonder if this Means Fanatec is Close to releasing a PS4 Rim or FW that will Give Native Support to Fanatec wheels with the New PS4 update thats coming out??? Hmmm???

GrimeyDog
17-08-2016, 14:39
http://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/23152-the-new-fanatec-csl-wheel-base-preview-pics/

More Fanatec CSL E wheel pics

Haiden
17-08-2016, 14:41
So pumped. Wish AC was coming this week instead of F1 2016. Ugh. Just want to drive some good F1!!!!

I was looking forward to F1 2016, because they brought some things back, like custom championships. But with the recent upgrades to the rig, PCars is like a whole new game. Between that and AC, I think I can wait on F1 2016, see what the real reviews are. I'll might pick it up later, though, around the end of the year when the season ends and the price dips...LOL. I've been downloading and trying a lot of the mods in AC. There are actually quite a few that are really good. Adding them to the garage, makes the Race Weekend grids more diverse. It's also fun to have a mixed grid for F1 racing, with cars from different seasons. :) There's no way F1 2016 is going to have better physics than AC, so, other than their full license and ability to perfectly capture the environmental energy/aspect of F1 racing, I don't think I'll be missing much during the wait.

GrimeyDog
17-08-2016, 14:58
Going PC already has My Mind ticking and i dont even have the Dam PC yet!!! Im already thinking of Going DD Wheel...Depending on How much more immersive it gets with PC!!! Because i own Multiple Fanatec wheel Rims...I will wait at least 1 year to give Fanatec time to bring out a DD wheel that Hopefully will work with their current Rim line up... I dont see why they shouldnt because the QR is solid construction.

Haiden
17-08-2016, 15:05
45 to 50 is still better than yhe 30fps on Console!!!
is there a FPS clock in PC version of Pcars??? I know there is 1 on Assetto Corsa.

Im pretty Happy with the PC build... The Guy said its Really Good Specs and by the time i Need More graphics power the Graphics cards will be Much Cheaper and i can just plug the Next card in in SLI mode and thats that...i just made sure i hade a Strong enough power supply (750w) to Run 2 cards No problem so i dont have to change too much stuff later... What power supply did you go with???

Yeah you did it again!!! Congrats on pulling Me to the Dark Side�� PC Gaming!!!

The Part that got Me was when you and Roger p were talking about how the AI was much more intuitive because of the Faster/ better PC processing power!!! Thats what pushed Me.over the Top!!!

For Me playing in 4k VS 1080p is Not such a big deal... Thats probably because I've Never played in 4k before LOL!!! Whats most important to Me is Good FFB feel and a Good Racing Experience No mateer if its On or Off Line....Im looking for the Most Immersive and Challenging Racing Experience.

Yeah... it really wasn't an issue. Still looked great. I've actually found a few settings that you can turn down a notch to improve performance with an perceptible decrease in image quality. It delivers a stable v-synced 60, and full rain effects at 50-60.

I got a EVGA Supernova 750G2. It's got power to spare.

For me, the difference between 4K and 1080 is really noticeable, but more so if you're very close to the screen. That's why I had to upgrade. Mounting a 1080p screen to the rig with 1920Ũ1080 resolution would have looked terrible and caused a lot of eye strain. At 4K, it's like looking out of a newly cleaned windshield...LOL Smooth curves and straight sharp lines.

The biggest change for me is having a realistic FOV, and I don't mean just optimized. I mean pretty much a 1:1 RL ratio, and that makes a total difference. When sitting in the rig, I can't really see around the sides and when I look down, I just see the asphalt, because the screen is sitting much lower than the wheel base. It's crazy realistic, and plays with my mind, because everything I'm seeing says I should be feeling inertia and my mind is expecting it. Sudden stops or changes in direction can be a little jarring. The screen is so wide that I can set a really high FOV and, even though I don't have triples, I still have to turn my head a bit to see cars pulling up on the sides. I swear, between the PC and the screen upgrade, my sim experience has been totally transformed. :)

Haiden
17-08-2016, 15:25
Going PC already has My Mind ticking and i dont even have the Dam PC yet!!! Im already thinking of Going DD Wheel...Depending on How much more immersive it gets with PC!!! Because i own Multiple Fanatec wheel Rims...I will wait at least 1 year to give Fanatec time to bring out a DD wheel that Hopefully will work with their current Rim line up... I dont see why they shouldnt because the QR is solid construction.

I always thought I'd eventually get a high-end DD wheel, but now, I don't think it's necessary. The CSW-v2 feels great on PC. In fact, I've been going lower and lower with the FF in AC. Right now, I only have the Master gain at 80 in AC and the in-car FF control at 55. I've even started re-tuning my PCars FFB, and have it feeling as close to AC as I can get. After learning PCars' FFB inside out, AC's different terminology, gave me a slightly different perspective about a few things. Most importantly, the GM FFB setting.

It's funny, that I never put these two together before, but GM FFB and deadzone have to be set to work with each other. We know that turning down FF increases deadzone. PCars' Deadzone Removal Range is the same as AC's Minimal Force Level. Both can be used to offset the increased deazone that comes from lowering FF, thus mitigating diminished dynamic range. Basically, the lower you set your global FF, the higher you need to raise your deadzone, and vice-versa. The relationship isn't 1:1, but if you lower FF and feel like the wheel is getting loose/sluggish, that's a sign you need to increase deadzone. If you raise FF and the wheel feels too heavy and the lower forces too sharp/hard, that's a sign you need to decrease your deadzone. For example, on the CSW-v2 running FF at 90-100, you don't really need any deadzone removal. However, if you lower FF to 85, you could probably benefit from a bumping DRR to 0.01.

I think a lot of people (myself included) know that lower FF can cause increased deadzone, but fail to fully acknowledge what that means, from an action/reaction aspect. When you change FF, you have to reassess your deadzone setting to see if any adjustments are needed.

Note: The FF/DRR dynamic is very sensitive, finding the right DRR takes a little back and forth, changing it one increment at a time. This is rather cumbersome on console, because of the long load times, and I think that's one of the reasons I never bothered going 1 step at a time and missed finding the optimal setting. But believe me, it's totally worth it. You can use the deadzone value you got from the WheelCheck/FCM tools as a starting point. The optimal setting should only be a few clicks +/- from there.

Haiden
17-08-2016, 20:52
is there a FPS clock in PC version of Pcars??? I know there is 1 on Assetto Corsa.


Not sure, but I doubt you want to use it, even if there is. With v-sync limiting the fps to 60, there's no reason to lock the frame rate. Although, since storm conditions choke the frame rate down below 60, I guess you might want to turn v-sync off, if you're going to be doing a long stint in those conditions. The problem is, if the weather changes and the fps shoots back up, you'll get screen tearing. The tearing will probably be worse than any issues the lower fps at v-sync would give you, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Roger Prynne
17-08-2016, 22:33
is there a FPS clock in PC version of Pcars??? I know there is 1 on Assetto Corsa.


You could use MSI Afterburner (https://gaming.msi.com/features/afterburner)

morpwr
17-08-2016, 22:43
I always thought I'd eventually get a high-end DD wheel, but now, I don't think it's necessary. The CSW-v2 feels great on PC. In fact, I've been going lower and lower with the FF in AC. Right now, I only have the Master gain at 80 in AC and the in-car FF control at 55. I've even started re-tuning my PCars FFB, and have it feeling as close to AC as I can get. After learning PCars' FFB inside out, AC's different terminology, gave me a slightly different perspective about a few things. Most importantly, the GM FFB setting.

It's funny, that I never put these two together before, but GM FFB and deadzone have to be set to work with each other. We know that turning down FF increases deadzone. PCars' Deadzone Removal Range is the same as AC's Minimal Force Level. Both can be used to offset the increased deazone that comes from lowering FF, thus mitigating diminished dynamic range. Basically, the lower you set your global FF, the higher you need to raise your deadzone, and vice-versa. The relationship isn't 1:1, but if you lower FF and feel like the wheel is getting loose/sluggish, that's a sign you need to increase deadzone. If you raise FF and the wheel feels too heavy and the lower forces too sharp/hard, that's a sign you need to decrease your deadzone. For example, on the CSW-v2 running FF at 90-100, you don't really need any deadzone removal. However, if you lower FF to 85, you could probably benefit from a bumping DRR to 0.01.

I think a lot of people (myself included) know that lower FF can cause increased deadzone, but fail to fully acknowledge what that means, from an action/reaction aspect. When you change FF, you have to reassess your deadzone setting to see if any adjustments are needed.

Note: The FF/DRR dynamic is very sensitive, finding the right DRR takes a little back and forth, changing it one increment at a time. This is rather cumbersome on console, because of the long load times, and I think that's one of the reasons I never bothered going 1 step at a time and missed finding the optimal setting. But believe me, it's totally worth it. You can use the deadzone value you got from the WheelCheck/FCM tools as a starting point. The optimal setting should only be a few clicks +/- from there.

Yes one number off on the t300 and you lose understeer and brake lockup feel. The wheel wont get light enough to feel it. Man you guys have been busy!!! lol

poirqc
17-08-2016, 22:47
You could use MSI Afterburner (https://gaming.msi.com/features/afterburner)

steam also has a build in one.

BigDad
17-08-2016, 23:00
Not sure, but I doubt you want to use it, even if there is. With v-sync limiting the fps to 60, there's no reason to lock the frame rate. Although, since storm conditions choke the frame rate down below 60, I guess you might want to turn v-sync off, if you're going to be doing a long stint in those conditions. The problem is, if the weather changes and the fps shoots back up, you'll get screen tearing. The tearing will probably be worse than any issues the lower fps at v-sync would give you, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Nvidia control panel, try fast sync.

BigDad
17-08-2016, 23:01
steam also has a build in one.

How do you enable that?

Haiden
17-08-2016, 23:11
You could use MSI Afterburner (https://gaming.msi.com/features/afterburner)

Oh, I totally misread that. I thought he asked about an frame rate lock setting...LOL

There's no FPS status in PCars, but there's one in Steam. If you turn it own in the Steam settings, you'll get a little frame rate report in the lower right corner of your screen for all games running on Steam.

Haiden
17-08-2016, 23:30
How do you enable that?

Go to settings in the Steam application window.


Nvidia control panel, try fast sync.

Thanks! I'll give this a shot tonight. Looks promising, because I can definitely push more than 60 fps, even on Ultra. If I tune the settings a bit I'd be well into the 100s. :)

Edit: I gave Fast Sync a shot. It didn't help. The limitation is on the TV side. It has a 120 Motion Rate, but the refresh rate is 60Hz. Fast sync is still syncing with the TVs 60hz, but it's still throwing more frames than the TV is taking. If I turned on the Motion Rate stuff, it might work. But I turned that stuff off, because it adds latency. I'm fine with the V-Sync's 60 fps. It's rock stable, and the image looks crystal sitting two feet from the screen. I'm more than happy. :)

BigDad
18-08-2016, 03:19
Go to settings in the Steam application window.



Thanks! I'll give this a shot tonight. Looks promising, because I can definitely push more than 60 fps, even on Ultra. If I tune the settings a bit I'd be well into the 100s. :)

Edit: I gave Fast Sync a shot. It didn't help. The limitation is on the TV side. It has a 120 Motion Rate, but the refresh rate is 60Hz. Fast sync is still syncing with the TVs 60hz, but it's still throwing more frames than the TV is taking. If I turned on the Motion Rate stuff, it might work. But I turned that stuff off, because it adds latency. I'm fine with the V-Sync's 60 fps. It's rock stable, and the image looks crystal sitting two feet from the screen. I'm more than happy. :)

Yeah v-sync seems fine to me too aslong as you don't dip under 60fps otherwise v-sync drops to 30fps.
I've tuned the settings in AC so I can stay above 60fps @4K also, just dropped a few things from ultra to high and turned off fxaa, average on AC benchmark is now 65fps, not sure how Pcars will run @4K on my 1060.
I tried AC @1080p full ultra even with the 100+fps I get I don't think it's very good and will sacrifice a bit of fps for resolution aslong as it's above 60fps your golden . 4K is a definite for all gaming, IMHO.

GrimeyDog
18-08-2016, 10:22
Here is My Question... What would be the Major benefit of adding a 2nd 1070 card?... im thinking about adding a 2nd card when i pick up the PC so i can just be done with it for a while:yes: I may just call them and tell them to add it today if the Benefit is signifigant... Im Not really worried about FPS above 60 for Now because as its being discussed the Limits of the TV impeeds 60+FPS.

I Know i can get a stable 100+ FPS on the 40in 3D TV but after playing on the 48in Curved I dont think i can Go back to 40in just for extra FPS..

Would 2x 1070 cards Keep the FPS at 60 with all settings Maxed out???

GrimeyDog
18-08-2016, 10:56
@ Haiden regarding your FOV... i read you say you have to turn your Head L to R to see the Full Screen... Have you ever Considered a Curverd TV??? the FOV is Amazing!!! in My case according to My Seating distance the Biggest Flat Screen i can play on is 40in with out Turning My Head...When i Look Center Screen i can see the Full Screen only Nothing Left Nothing Right of it.... The 48in Due to the Curve provides the Same FOV at the Same Distance just with a bigger Screen... The Curve adds a Really Nice FOV, Depth and Immersion also IMO you have a Better FOV of the Left and Right side of the Screen... It Works Really well in PCars But even Better in Call of Duty type shooters!!! Better FOV, Same Distance, More Screen that can be seen No head Movement Needed... Since you just bought the TV you prob still have a few days to take it back... Thats what i did!!! the First Curved TV i bought was a 40in because i thought that was the Biggest i could Go!!! Ex: I have a 42in thats just impossible for Me to play on at My Regualar distance because of the Need to Look L/R constantly.... I immediatly Took the 40in Curved TV back because due to the Curve it was 4in shorter L to R than the Flat 40in and made the FOV Smaller...i swapped it for the 48in Curved TV and the FOV is Perfect!!! Trust Me after Playing on a Curved TV your wont go back to Flat Screen!!! Not even for Higher FPS.

I always buy TV's from Best Buy or PC Richards because you have 30days to change it if its Not right for you.

Edit: I tested again last Night and Can Confirm that the 3D tV with 240htz will Give Stable 100+ FPS with Assetto Corsa on My Old PC with Medium to High Settings....the Old PC will Not Do ultra.

GrimeyDog
18-08-2016, 11:36
To the PC Guys... Roger Pryne, Poirqc and all other PC guys... I Need a Quick answer!!!... Im thinking of Changing the PC build from I5 6th gen to a I7 and also thinking about upping the Power supply from 750 to 850 what do you think... Is that be Better for Me to do this??? Im supposed to pick it up tomorrow or saturday so i dont think they started the Build yet so i will go there today when im off work to change the order if its Not too Late...

The way the Guy explained it to Me... he said its like old Light bulbs compaired to New LED light Bulbs that i can do More with Less Power Needed...Since its a fresh New build i didnt Need the 850 or the I7.. he stated for UHD Gaming the 750 PSU and i5 6th gen would be More than enough...what do you guys think... Im Getting Lost and Starting to 2nd Guess with all the reserch about Gaming PC hardware!!!.... there are alot of different thoerys on PC builds. I want to Know what you guys think.

Haiden
18-08-2016, 12:05
Here is My Question... What would be the Major benefit of adding a 2nd 1070 card?... im thinking about adding a 2nd card when i pick up the PC so i can just be done with it for a while:yes: I may just call them and tell them to add it today if the Benefit is signifigant... Im Not really worried about FPS above 60 for Now because as its being discussed the Limits of the TV impeeds 60+FPS.

I Know i can get a stable 100+ FPS on the 40in 3D TV but after playing on the 48in Curved I dont think i can Go back to 40in just for extra FPS..

Would 2x 1070 cards Keep the FPS at 60 with all settings Maxed out???

Why not just get the 1080, then? Isn't that cheaper than two 1070s? Is the 40" a lower resolution/not 4K? Because, if the resolution is the same, the frame rate will be the same. But if the resolution on the 40" is lower, then fps will be probably be lower.


@ Haiden regarding your FOV... i read you say you have to turn your Head L to R to see the Full Screen... Have you ever Considered a Curverd TV??? the FOV is Amazing!!! in My case according to My Seating distance the Biggest Flat Screen i can play on is 40in with out Turning My Head...When i Look Center Screen i can see the Full Screen only Nothing Left Nothing Right of it.... The 48in Due to the Curve provides the Same FOV at the Same Distance just with a bigger Screen... The Curve adds a Really Nice FOV, Depth and Immersion also IMO you have a Better FOV of the Left and Right side of the Screen... It Works Really well in PCars But even Better in Call of Duty type shooters!!! Better FOV, Same Distance, More Screen that can be seen No head Movement Needed...

Edit: I tested again last Night and Can Confirm that the 3D tV with 240htz will Give Stable 100+ FPS with Assetto Corsa on My Old PC with Medium to High Settings....the Old PC will Not Do ultra.

I'm actually testing that out right now. There was a Samsung 55" curved, but it's benchmark latency and motion blur were higher. When I said turn my head, I meant to see it clearly/take it in in full view. Otherwise, I only see it in my peripheral, until it pulls further alongside me. Right now, the FOV set high enough that I'm getting probably a quarter of the extra width I'd get with triples. I don't turn my head to drive. I turn it to look at my left and right sides, just like you do with triple screens. I'd prefer to see the side views as much to side as possible, not in front of me. :)

But I'm thinking about whether or not to increased latency and motion blur is high enough to make a difference. I got it from Best Buy, I buy so many toys, I'm a silver member, so I've got 45 days to return it.



To the PC Guys... Roger Pryne, Poirqc and all other PC guys... I Need a Quick answer!!!... Im thinking of Changing the PC build from I5 6th gen to a I7 and also thinking about upping the Power supply from 750 to 850 what do you think... Is that be Better for Me to do this??? Im supposed to pick it up tomorrow or saturday so i dont think they started the Build yet so i will go there today when im off work to change the order if its Not too Late...

The way the Guy explained it to Me... he said its like old Light bulbs compaired to New LED light Bulbs that i can do More with Less Power Needed...Since its a fresh New build i didnt Need the 850 or the I7.. he stated for UHD Gaming the 750 PSU and i5 6th gen would be More than enough...what do you guys think... Im Getting Lost and Starting to 2nd Guess with all the reserch about Gaming PC hardware!!!.... there are alot of different thoerys on PC builds. I want to Know what you guys think.

You should call them. I don't know if your Microcenter is different, but at the one here, you have to pay for all the parts before they will start the build. Once you pay for the parts, you have to do a return to swap them out. They are building it, but the components are still considered "opened box" once they break the seals. Also, they often let lower tech associates build them right away, and then they wait for senior techs to do the testing and assist them with things like overclocking. So if you're thinking about making changes, you should call them and stop the work ASAP.

poirqc
18-08-2016, 13:01
A 850W PSU isn't automaticaly better than a 750 one. It can dish out more total power, accross all the rails, but it doesn't mean it'll do it as good. Are the rails Voltage stable? Understanding PSU is a world by itself.

The proportions aren't good, but a 500W PSU that cost 100$ will probably be better than a 750W PSU that cost 50$.

The big advantage of i7 against i5 are the added cores. If you plan to run alot of applications at once, having an i7 could be better. But if you plan on doing 1 thing at once only, an i5 will be enough.

GrimeyDog
18-08-2016, 13:21
The Reserch ive done the 1080 will only Give minimal FPS boost some where between 10 to 20 FPS boost... Both Cards will Drop FPS when set to Ultra Settings depending on Game 48 to 60 FPS Neither card Drips below that... Also I have the 1070FTW edition card so its Very Close performance wise and its a minimum $200 Cheaper!!!
Because the TV is Limited to 60FPS what im Looking for is UHD FPS Stability with the Best/ Max Graphics Texture and Shading.... This 2x 1070 FTW cards = $800 so i will get more using 2 less powerful cards and save $400... 2x 1080 = $1,200!!!

Im Not Planning on going to 3x Monitors but I will do VR when they perfect the Tec. with 2x 1070 FTW cards i will be More than Ready.

The 40in is a 3D TV so its Refresh rate is 240... that will Give 120 FPS....also its Not UHD only 1080p... Assetto Corsa will Play 100+ FPS on it with a Stable Rate that wont drop below 100FPS

The 48 UHD is Not 3D so the Refresh rate is only 120.
Witb the Curved TV it just puts everthing on the Sides Directly in you perifial FOV... Maybe with Slight Eye Movement Nothing more... if you decide to switch you wont be sorry.

My Current PC cant Handle UHD... well I Never Tried to get it to do so... Ive always set it to 1080p and even then i have to cut Shading, Texture, Reflections, Rear View Mirror to Med and Low.



I also Turn Off all the TV picture assist and Put TV in Gaming Mode to Decrease latency...Trust Me with Todays Modern TVs with Game Mide you wont get any Notable Latency/Lag time.

Yes Same with Me Silver Member!!! i Buy all My TV's and such from Best Buy PC Richards Then i search the web for 30 days looking for sales Best Buy Gives you back the Price diff +10%!!! PC Richards only refunds the Price Diff.

GrimeyDog
18-08-2016, 13:30
A 850W PSU isn't automaticaly better than a 750 one. It can dish out more total power, accross all the rails, but it doesn't mean it'll do it as good. Are the rails Voltage stable? Understanding PSU is a world by itself.

The proportions aren't good, but a 500W PSU that cost 100$ will probably be better than a 750W PSU that cost 50$.

The big advantage of i7 against i5 are the added cores. If you plan to run alot of applications at once, having an i7 could be better. But if you plan on doing 1 thing at once only, an i5 will be enough.

I have the CX 750M Gold Class PSU:o
The New PC is Only for Gaming use... I Bought the MSI Z170A mother board so i the Rails should be stable... I Hope... Im Trying to get a few years outta it before i Need to upgrade... Thats why im just gonna try to get right as best i can Now so i dont have to worry for a bit... I fugure im Spending the $$$ So i will Spend it all Now while Life is Good:o because you know later something else always comes up:mad:

I will do all other things on My Current PC.

poirqc
18-08-2016, 13:45
I have the CX 750M Gold Class PSU:o
The New PC is Only for Gaming use... I Bought the MSI Z170A mother board so i the Rails should be stable... I Hope... Im Trying to get a few years outta it before i Need to upgrade... Thats why im just gonna try to get right as best i can Now so i dont have to worry for a bit... I fugure im Spending the $$$ So i will Spend it all Now while Life is Good:o because you know later something else always comes up:mad:

I will do all other things on My Current PC.

A 750 Gold is a safe bet. Since you plan to do lots of things, and you seems to want to go all in, pick the i7.

My good friend still has a first gen i7, with only 6 GB of RAM. Last summer he bought a 290X, and for 1080 gaming, he won't ever upgrade this box again. He had it for, well, since the i7 9XX came out.

The point here is that if you have the money, take the i7.

Cheers! :D

GrimeyDog
18-08-2016, 14:02
A 750 Gold is a safe bet. Since you plan to do lots of things, and you seems to want to go all in, pick the i7.

My good friend still has a first gen i7, with only 6 GB of RAM. Last summer he bought a 290X, and for 1080 gaming, he won't ever upgrade this box again. He had it for, well, since the i7 9XX came out.

The point here is that if you have the money, take the i7.

Cheers! :D

Im only Going to game on the New PC build...I can swing the i7 if its better for gaming... But if its Not Needed i will use the $$$ to get a 2nd 1070FTW card and More SSD.... I want to go with the Option that will Give most Stable UHD FPS and Best Graphics texture and shading. Right Now I wanna add the Stuff that will be hard to Change before the Build is complete... I can Add a 2nd 1070FTW and SSD my self thats olug and play.

Haiden
18-08-2016, 14:46
The 40in is a 3D TV so its Refresh rate is 240... that will Give 120 FPS....also its Not UHD only 1080p... Assetto Corsa will Play 100+ FPS on it with a Stable Rate that wont drop below 100FPS

The 48 UHD is Not 3D so the Refresh rate is only 120.
Witb the Curved TV it just puts everthing on the Sides Directly in you perifial FOV... Maybe with Slight Eye Movement Nothing more... if you decide to switch you wont be sorry.

I'm thinking about getting the Samsung 55". It's actually 240 Motion Rate, which means it's probably a 120 Hz real refresh rate. The 1080 is putting out more than 60 fps, so I could take advantage of the increase. I just hate boxing this crap up and lugging it back to the store. If I hook up the Samsung and see any motion blur, I'm gonna be pissed, because I'll have to take it all down again and run back to the store. Not very convenient/easy in Chicago.


Im only Going to game on the New PC build...I can swing the i7 if its better for gaming... But if its Not Needed i will use the $$$ to get a 2nd 1070FTW card and More SSD.... I want to go with the Option that will Give most Stable UHD FPS and Best Graphics texture and shading. Right Now I wanna add the Stuff that will be hard to Change before the Build is complete... I can Add a 2nd 1070FTW and SSD my self thats olug and play.

Don't forget, only gaming still means running more than one thing at a time--dash apps and the like running in the background count as "doing more than one thing at a time."

Haiden
18-08-2016, 15:25
The Reserch ive done the 1080 will only Give minimal FPS boost some where between 10 to 20 FPS boost... Both Cards will Drop FPS when set to Ultra Settings depending on Game 48 to 60 FPS Neither card Drips below that... Also I have the 1070FTW edition card so its Very Close performance wise and its a minimum $200 Cheaper!!!
Because the TV is Limited to 60FPS what im Looking for is UHD FPS Stability with the Best/ Max Graphics Texture and Shading.... This 2x 1070 FTW cards = $800 so i will get more using 2 less powerful cards and save $400... 2x 1080 = $1,200!!!

Im Not Planning on going to 3x Monitors but I will do VR when they perfect the Tec. with 2x 1070 FTW cards i will be More than Ready.

The 40in is a 3D TV so its Refresh rate is 240... that will Give 120 FPS....also its Not UHD only 1080p... Assetto Corsa will Play 100+ FPS on it with a Stable Rate that wont drop below 100FPS

The 48 UHD is Not 3D so the Refresh rate is only 120.
Witb the Curved TV it just puts everthing on the Sides Directly in you perifial FOV... Maybe with Slight Eye Movement Nothing more... if you decide to switch you wont be sorry.

Correction, I was wrong. That Samsung 55" curved 4K is still only a 60Hz real refresh rate at 4K. You might want to check your TV with the 120Hz refresh rate. I did a lot of research and didn't see any Samsungs with a real 4K refresh rate above 60Hz. They say 240 Motion Rate or 120Hz refresh, but you only get a true 120Hz at 1080p. Even Samsung's high end $2,200, KS9500 series only runs 4K at 60Hz. That's the same with the Sony I have right now. It's 120Hz at 1080p, but only 60Hz at 4K.

I think I'm sticking with the Sony 55". A 48/49" curve is basically the same viewable as a 55", but the Sony has a better response time and less motion blur than the Samsungs. Difference might be minimal, but given that we're talking about fast motion graphics, I'll take the lower latency.

GrimeyDog
18-08-2016, 15:56
Correction, I was wrong. That Samsung 55" curved 4K is still only a 60Hz real refresh rate at 4K. You might want to check your TV with the 120Hz refresh rate. I did a lot of research and didn't see any Samsungs with a real 4K refresh rate above 60Hz. They say 240 Motion Rate or 120Hz refresh, but you only get a true 120Hz at 1080p. Even Samsung's high end $2,200, KS9500 series only runs 4K at 60Hz. That's the same with the Sony I have right now. It's 120Hz at 1080p, but only 60Hz at 4K.

I think I'm sticking with the Sony 55". A 48/49" curve is basically the same viewable as a 55", but the Sony has a better response time and less motion blur than the Samsungs. Difference might be minimal, but given that we're talking about fast motion graphics, I'll take the lower latency.

Check the 3D 240htz TV's this will do 100+... But again My 40in is Not UHD its only 1080p

My Samsung 40in i had 2 only 2yrs so its Not that old tec wise... but it will do100+ it with Assetto Corsa at 1080p... I capped the FPS at 100 to keep it stable with My current PC... I dont know what the FPS is on UHD 3D TV's is tbouhh i dont have ... Well Not yet...LOL

Jezza819
18-08-2016, 16:33
I'm thinking about getting the Samsung 55". It's actually 240 Motion Rate, which means it's probably a 120 Hz real refresh rate. The 1080 is putting out more than 60 fps, so I could take advantage of the increase. I just hate boxing this crap up and lugging it back to the store. If I hook up the Samsung and see any motion blur, I'm gonna be pissed, because I'll have to take it all down again and run back to the store. Not very convenient/easy in Chicago.



Don't forget, only gaming still means running more than one thing at a time--dash apps and the like running in the background count as "doing more than one thing at a time."

Is Motion Blur what you would see on a live football game and the football is passed and it looks like it's shaking from side to side or looking like it's vibrating?

I ask because I've got a 55" LG that is 240hz and that's about the only spec I know about it. But that's really the only thing that annoys me about it. It's about 5 years old now.

Haiden
18-08-2016, 16:53
Check the 3D 240htz TV's this will do 100+... But again My 40in is Not UHD its only 1080p

My Samsung 40in i had 2 only 2yrs so its Not that old tec wise... but it will do100+ it with Assetto Corsa at 1080p... I capped the FPS at 100 to keep it stable with My current PC... I dont know what the FPS is on UHD 3D TV's is tbouhh i dont have ... Well Not yet...LOL

Yes. That's what I mean. You can get 120Hz at 1080p, but only 60Hz at 4K. I could get a solid 120 at 1080p, but my screen is too close for me to run it that low--that's only 1920x1080 resolution. With the screen being only 25 inches from my face, I need 4K, resolution; otherwise, I see the pixels. Also, 4K looks and runs like butter at 60Hz. Why scale it down to 1080? :) Oh, I also misspoke. When I said "turn my head" I didn't mean I actually had to. I can see the whole screen while facing forward. But a portion of the far left and right sides are actually more in my peripheral than center vision. I don't have to actually turn my head, but I do have to shift my eyes left or right to focus on that portion of the screen. Otherwise, it's just looks like everything looks in your peripheral--slightly out of focus.



Is Motion Blur what you would see on a live football game and the football is passed and it looks like it's shaking from side to side or looking like it's vibrating?

I ask because I've got a 55" LG that is 240hz and that's about the only spec I know about it. But that's really the only thing that annoys me about it. It's about 5 years old now.

That could be the cause of it. Samsung started the BS with the Motion Rates. They did it to trick consumers. People were starting to get smart about screens, especially for gaming. So Samsung created and started reporting what they call the Motion Rate, because it's usually double the actual refresh rate, and most people don't know the difference. Other companies had no choice but to follow their lead, because the average consumer thought the Samsung's had a higher refresh rate. It's possible to get motion blur on TVs with high Motion Rates, though.

Here are two good sites for checking specs. If your TV is five years old, it might not be listed, but you can get a decent idea of how LGs perform by looking at some of the other models.

This one is good for checking/comparing latency.

http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/


The index page shows the advertised refresh rate (which is usually the 1080p rate). If you click into the review page, you'll find the actual supported refresh rates for all viewing modes (1080 and 4K) further down on the right.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg

BigDad
18-08-2016, 22:46
The Reserch ive done the 1080 will only Give minimal FPS boost some where between 10 to 20 FPS boost... Both Cards will Drop FPS when set to Ultra Settings depending on Game 48 to 60 FPS Neither card Drips below that... Also I have the 1070FTW edition card so its Very Close performance wise and its a minimum $200 Cheaper!!!
Because the TV is Limited to 60FPS what im Looking for is UHD FPS Stability with the Best/ Max Graphics Texture and Shading.... This 2x 1070 FTW cards = $800 so i will get more using 2 less powerful cards and save $400... 2x 1080 = $1,200!!!

Im Not Planning on going to 3x Monitors but I will do VR when they perfect the Tec. with 2x 1070 FTW cards i will be More than Ready.

The 40in is a 3D TV so its Refresh rate is 240... that will Give 120 FPS....also its Not UHD only 1080p... Assetto Corsa will Play 100+ FPS on it with a Stable Rate that wont drop below 100FPS

The 48 UHD is Not 3D so the Refresh rate is only 120.
Witb the Curved TV it just puts everthing on the Sides Directly in you perifial FOV... Maybe with Slight Eye Movement Nothing more... if you decide to switch you wont be sorry.

My Current PC cant Handle UHD... well I Never Tried to get it to do so... Ive always set it to 1080p and even then i have to cut Shading, Texture, Reflections, Rear View Mirror to Med and Low.



I also Turn Off all the TV picture assist and Put TV in Gaming Mode to Decrease latency...Trust Me with Todays Modern TVs with Game Mide you wont get any Notable Latency/Lag time.

Yes Same with Me Silver Member!!! i Buy all My TV's and such from Best Buy PC Richards Then i search the web for 30 days looking for sales Best Buy Gives you back the Price diff +10%!!! PC Richards only refunds the Price Diff.

From what I've read SLI configurations don't really give a performance boost in many games. The game needs to be specifically optimised for 2 GPU's, I think you also should just get a Titan if youve got the money for a 1070sli set up.

Woffu
18-08-2016, 23:22
@morpwr after jacks latest car settings update what rab setting did you end up going with? I havnt got to play much since his update. When I did try his latest settings with rab 0.03 some cars felt fine but others felt wrong. Then I read you put the rab at 0.10 so I did that to and the cars that felt wrong felt fine again. Then I read you found out you had error message about your ffb being corrupt so I checked mine but I don't have any error messages about corrupt ffb. After reinstalling the game are you using your same settings or did you have to change something to gets jacks settings to work? I'll get to get back on tonight finally

Haiden
18-08-2016, 23:44
From what I've read SLI configurations don't really give a performance boost in many games. The game needs to be specifically optimised for 2 GPU's, I think you also should just get a Titan if youve got the money for a 1070sli set up.

IMO, they're best suited for multi-screen setups, where you benefit from the load balancing. If you've only got one screen, then why not just feed it directly?

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 01:31
From what I've read SLI configurations don't really give a performance boost in many games. The game needs to be specifically optimised for 2 GPU's, I think you also should just get a Titan if youve got the money for a 1070sli set up.

its already done!!! 2x EVGA 1070 FTW SLI mode for only 28% more than 1 1080!!!:o

I've beem doing some home work also check this video out... Take Note of the performance gains and the test were run on Last gen i7...the i5 6th gen meets or exceeds that performance as far as gaming running on 4 threads....I will run it like this for a few months and if i want more i will Buy a new motherboard and the next gen i7 when it comes out....I will sell the old mother board and i5 6th gen on Ebay depending on how much $$$ i can recoup or maybe even just do a New build PC build with it when the price of the 1080 drops:yes:

I pick it up Tomorrow!!!

Edit: i can also disable SLI with the click of a button if the game performs better without it...i believe it goes into another mode where they just share the work load<--- I'm Not sure about this info or exactly how it behaves when disabled... so Please inform me if I'm wrong... I still have much reading and catching up to do. I've been on console way too long!!!

Check this Video also
Whats The Best Processor for Gaming? Intel i7 6700k vs Intel i7 5820k vs Intel i5 6600k

https://youtu.be/Kw-qyZB8qtk


when you look at the FPS its not a huge difference between the 3...using 2 cards in SLI i should get really good results my Curved TV only only puts out 60FPS so i should be really Good...When i hook up to the 40in #D TV i should have No problem getting 1080p and a constant 100+ FPS with everything maxed out.

Haiden
19-08-2016, 01:38
Did a little testing on graphic settings.

From what I researched, I settled on two setting combos MSAA+FXAA and High+FXAA. Both deliver rock solid 60 fps, with AA set to MSAA, I was getting a good 50-57 fps in Thunderstorm conditions a Nords with a 24 car grid. It occasionally dipped into the high 40, but 46 was lowest I saw. With MSAA, I was only getting 44-52 fps steady with a few lower dips, but it did stay above 40. The trade, though, is... AA set to High does look slightly better, IMO. And by slightly I mean it's something I notice when switch between the two, but probably wouldn't notice if I just came to it like that. So, since I do far less racing in thunderstorm conditions than I do anything else, I think I'm going to go with High. :)

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 02:19
TV VS Gaming Monitor Video

https://youtu.be/Sxvu7qf6rDw

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 02:39
Did a little testing on graphic settings.

From what I researched, I settled on two setting combos MSAA+FXAA and High+FXAA. Both deliver rock solid 60 fps, with AA set to MSAA, I was getting a good 50-57 fps in Thunderstorm conditions a Nords with a 24 car grid. It occasionally dipped into the high 40, but 46 was lowest I saw. With MSAA, I was only getting 44-52 fps steady with a few lower dips, but it did stay above 40. The trade, though, is... AA set to High does look slightly better, IMO. And by slightly I mean it's something I notice when switch between the two, but probably wouldn't notice if I just came to it like that. So, since I do far less racing in thunderstorm conditions than I do anything else, I think I'm going to go with High. :)

running 2 EVGA 1070 FTW cards in SLI Mode i should be able to maintain 60FPS with ultra settings... I'm not really looking for more FPS than that right Now because that means spending more $$$ buying monitors and id rather just wait until the VR tec is perfected...it wont be that much longer maybe a year or so but the PC will be ready to handle it...I'm Glad i did it Now so its just done and i don't have to bother upgrading or adding more stuff for a bit... I will add more SSD but thats it and thats pretty cheap...250GB for $60 + or - $10 depending if you catch it on sale... I'm definitely giving My pockets a rest now:yes: I think I'm going to be really happy with the build.


check this Video... its testing can the average gamer tell 120F PS VS 60 FPS

https://youtu.be/yWEpIwNDeCA

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 02:53
GTX 1070 SLI - 1080p, 1440p, and 4K Benchmarks this is the video that helped convince me he compaierd the Titan, 1080 VS 2x 1070 FTW in SLI mode....2x 1070 FTW was the more cost effective buy i only spent 28% more than 1 1080 that's only a few pennies more on the total cost of the build with substantial performance gains depending on game...in this case Pcars should show nice gains....rise of the tomb raider didn't do well but i don't play that any way:p.... i bet Dirt Rally will look Amazing!!!


https://youtu.be/Xf6RmKhSApw

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 03:04
GTX 1080 OC VS GTX 1070 OC SLI - The Witcher 3 - 4K With on Screen stats...Not exactly the same cards but still in the same family of cards with similar performance that show Notable performance diff in FPs... the witcher is noted to be a FPS dropper because there is sooo much going on with background and graphic details....

https://youtu.be/C7RUC_JAmSY

BigDad
19-08-2016, 03:34
Even if the screen doesn't display more than 60fps the fluidity of movement at higher fps is definitely worth having as high as possible fps.
SLI is more trouble than its worth for the $, check out the 1000 series Titan for performance if $ aren't an issue.

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 10:50
I wish i had that $$$ aint a problem issue:p

I just figure why wait since im doing it Now might as well go all in and let Micro Center Slap innthe extra Card because i dont want any funny biz honoring the warrenty if i have to take it back to them for any reason.

I was doing alot of reading about the Graphics card for a bit before i chose the 1070FTW card.

This Video compares the Titan VS 1080 VS 2x 1070FTW in SLI and for a few $189 more than the EVGA 1080 but for Much Less than the Price of a Titan the 2x 1070FTW SLI Combo performance wise Gives the Best Bang for the $$$!!!

This Video Sealed the Deal Check it out...I was Contemplating Stalling, Stradling the Fence about doing 2x Graphics Cards but this Comparrison Video made the Choice easy:yes:

https://youtu.be/Xf6RmKhSApw


Higher FPS Monitors would be Nice but My Gaming Hardware Budget is Done for the Rest of the Year:rolleyes:... Maybe:o... LOL... Im going to wait for VR tec to get better... I will Go VR before i go 3 monitor set up... VR has more appeal to Me and takes up Less Space:yes:

But im Glad i Finally made the move...Now that its done its just a matter to let My pockets Recoup...Total build cost is Now at $2,200.... LOL!!! I did exactly what i been saying for months i was Not going to do!!!

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 11:30
Even if the screen doesn't display more than 60fps the fluidity of movement at higher fps is definitely worth having as high as possible fps.
SLI is more trouble than its worth for the $, check out the 1000 series Titan for performance if $ aren't an issue.

Big Dad you Do know this is All your Fault Right!!!
You were the First 1 of the Group to Switch to PC and then came back Screaming How Much Better it was:congratulatory:

Then Haiden Moved to PC Screaming How PC Gaming is soo Much Better:yes:

By Default you caused a Chain Reaction.... Lets See who is Next to Follow???

I have been saying im going to PC for a Bit but was just Stradling the fence about it... after reading all of you and Haidens Comments on How Much better it is plus with all the Console wheel Not working contraversy i just woke up and said its time!!!... In the Long Run i will end up saving more than i spent.... Probably will Never Buy a Console Again and i dont have yo worry about buying New wheels or Rims just so My equipment will work... Plus i will just stay Home and Game for a Bit!!! Sheesh Im in NY!!! Every time you go out it cost $100 and thats a cheap Night!!!

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 11:35
What app do i use with Pcars to Check FPS???

Titzon Toast
19-08-2016, 11:52
I caught sight of the ffb calibration screen for AC on the PS4 today, such a relief to see such a simple way of doing it, rather than the hot mess we were given with PCars.
More time spent racing, less time spent trying to decipher overcomplicated technical jargon.

I hope SMS take note and implement drastic changes for PCars 2.

poirqc
19-08-2016, 12:10
What app do i use with Pcars to Check FPS???

You can either use MSI afterburner(You don't need an MSI card) or the build in FPS counter in steam.

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 12:25
I caught sight of the ffb calibration screen for AC on the PS4 today, such a relief to see such a simple way of doing it, rather than the hot mess we were given with PCars.
More time spent racing, less time spent trying to decipher overcomplicated technical jargon.

I hope SMS take note and implement drastic changes for PCars 2.

Question still Remains... are Fanatec wheels going to work with PS4 AC or is Kunos going to announce that only officially Licenced wheels will work like CM did with F1 2016?

BigDad
19-08-2016, 14:02
Big Dad you Do know this is All your Fault Right!!!
You were the First 1 of the Group to Switch to PC and then came back Screaming How Much Better it was:congratulatory:

Then Haiden Moved to PC Screaming How PC Gaming is soo Much Better:yes:

By Default you caused a Chain Reaction.... Lets See who is Next to Follow???

I have been saying im going to PC for a Bit but was just Stradling the fence about it... after reading all of you and Haidens Comments on How Much better it is plus with all the Console wheel Not working contraversy i just woke up and said its time!!!... In the Long Run i will end up saving more than i spent.... Probably will Never Buy a Console Again and i dont have yo worry about buying New wheels or Rims just so My equipment will work... Plus i will just stay Home and Game for a Bit!!! Sheesh Im in NY!!! Every time you go out it cost $100 and thats a cheap Night!!!
Best move in gaming ive ever made , you will not regret it one bit .
Game selection along is enough ,lol with the added bonus of 4K , high fps , ultra compared to low on ps4 .
I just found The Forest in early access on Steam $15 for a beautiful survival horror , trembling in my lounge chair praying for daylight , Simulation Minecraft on steroids . 4K ,40fps runs smoooth. Have a look if you dare .

Haiden
19-08-2016, 14:02
What app do i use with Pcars to Check FPS???

Steam has a built in fps monitor. You just need to enable it in the Steam settings. Then it will display the frame rate in the lower right corner of the screen for all games running on Steam.

BigDad
19-08-2016, 14:05
What app do i use with Pcars to Check FPS???

Im using MSI Afterburner to monitor fps and core and memory speeds aswell as GPU and CPU temps . oh and fan speeds .
Get MSI Afterburner ,got to setting open monitor and select what you want displayed . Pretty easy and cool .

Haiden
19-08-2016, 14:13
I caught sight of the ffb calibration screen for AC on the PS4 today, such a relief to see such a simple way of doing it, rather than the hot mess we were given with PCars.
More time spent racing, less time spent trying to decipher overcomplicated technical jargon.

I hope SMS take note and implement drastic changes for PCars 2.

It was a lot easier to tune. It felt great out of the box, but with about 20-30 minutes of tinkering it was feeling like butter. It's simplicity also gave me more insight into PCars system. I was able to quickly retune my PCars FFB, and it feel so much better than before. I'll update my setting page soon.


Best move in gaming ive ever made , you will not regret it one bit .
Game selection along is enough ,lol with the added bonus of 4K , high fps , ultra compared to low on ps4 .
I just found The Forest in early access on Steam $15 for a beautiful survival horror , trembling in my lounge chair praying for daylight , Simulation Minecraft on steroids . Have a look if you dare .

I agree. The only thing that surprised me was that there's less activity in the public servers on PC. But then talking to some other, it made sense. PCars is the pretty much the best sim on console right now, so people looking for that type of experience on PS4 are limited, and therefore more of them migrate to PCars. But on PC, PCars is good, but players have way more options on PC. Some were turned off by launch bugs and never came back. Other prefer other games for a variety of reasons. But the end result is a more fragmented audience base, so you get less people online than console. That being said, there are more community options and leagues to join on PC.


Question still Remains... are Fanatec wheels going to work with PS4 AC or is Kunos going to announce that only officially Licenced wheels will work like CM did with F1 2016?

Not sure. But this is what actually drove me to PC early. The mere fact that I was in the dark about whether or not my hardware would be supported turned me off of Sony for good. If the developers choose not to support a particular piece of hardware, that sucks, but it's their choice. But when the console manufacturer starts getting in the way like that, it's time for me to go. In fact, I'm so turned off by Sony that the PS4 might be going bye-bye soon. If it doesn't work with my Fanatec hardware, what good is it?

Shogun613
19-08-2016, 14:22
It was a lot easier to tune. It felt great out of the box, but with about 20-30 minutes of tinkering it was feeling like butter. It's simplicity also gave me more insight into PCars system. I was able to quickly retune my PCars FFB, and it feel so much better than before. I'll update my setting page soon.




I'm curious to see these new settings and how close you have made the two sims feel to each other, and your thoughts about what could be improved with each one.

BigDad
19-08-2016, 14:23
I havnt even tried online multiplayer in anything on pc yet ,lol.
My ps4 is already unplugged and put in my Childrens lounge room and i vow to never by $ony consoles again .
But i do like my $ony 4K TV and phone but no more consoles for me . Ive also traded just about all my ps4 games for Steam credits .

Haiden
19-08-2016, 14:53
I'm curious to see these new settings and how close you have made the two sims feel to each other, and your thoughts about what could be improved with each one.

I think my PCars FFB feels great now. I was testing frame rates in thunderstorm conditions at the Nords. A few minutes into it, I realize that I was doing better in the rain than ever before, going way faster and braking much better. It's the FFB change. I'll post them soon, but in the meantime, check this comment. I basically explain the direction I'm taking with PCars FFB after playing AC. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?38744-Lets-talk-FFB-Post-and-Compare-short-Telemetry-Videos-and-what-FFB-tweek-used&p=1300352&viewfull=1#post1300352

I'm not 100% done yet, but right now, I'm running FF/TF at 75/75. But, IMO, what making this balance work is having the DRR dialed in precisely for my FF/Hardware combination and individual tastes. I've tried 75/75 before, and it never felt anything like how it feel now, but back then, I wasn't adjusting the DRR when I made FF changes.

Haiden
19-08-2016, 14:58
I havnt even tried online multiplayer in anything on pc yet ,lol.
My ps4 is already unplugged and put in my Childrens lounge room and i vow to never by $ony consoles again .
But i do like my $ony 4K TV and phone but no more consoles for me . Ive also traded just about all my ps4 games for Steam credits .

I tried a couple online sessions in PCars. Basically the same crash fest dummies as on console, but there are more good drivers on the grid. Unfortunately, the dummies won and both races ended with me getting crashed out.

Titzon Toast
19-08-2016, 15:43
Question still Remains... are Fanatec wheels going to work with PS4 AC or is Kunos going to announce that only officially Licenced wheels will work like CM did with F1 2016?

http://console.assettocorsa.net/supported-wheels.php
Bad news for Fanatec users on the PS4 I'm afraid.


Sorry for derailing the thread folks.

BigDad
19-08-2016, 16:00
http://console.assettocorsa.net/supported-wheels.php
Bad news for Fanatec users on the PS4 I'm afraid.


Sorry for derailing the thread folks.
Well there you go ! New it was coming ;(
Never again $ony .
Whats the difference with supported and compatible with the Thrustmaster stuff. Now Fanatec is neither !

Jezza819
19-08-2016, 16:03
http://console.assettocorsa.net/supported-wheels.php
Bad news for Fanatec users on the PS4 I'm afraid.


Sorry for derailing the thread folks.

I saw the Fanatec ClubSport Steering Wheel Universal Hub EU/US/AU for Xbox One on the list so I'm assuming that I'm good to go with the V2 base since that is the hub that it uses?

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 16:03
http://console.assettocorsa.net/supported-wheels.php
Bad news for Fanatec users on the PS4 I'm afraid.


Sorry for derailing the thread folks.

Thanks for that info... The Thread has Been Derailed...LOL... We talk about what ever is Mist Relevant at the current time... We will get back to FFB when or if we Need to or Some one Needs Help... Good to see you posting again:yes:

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 16:06
https://youtu.be/nTc9ZDkZwjA

This is Not My Video but from the Look of this Video Pcars with the 2x 1070 SLi Looks Teally promising!!!
I feel can Hardly wait to get off work and oick up the PC... Feeling Excited!!!

Titzon Toast
19-08-2016, 17:11
I saw the Fanatec ClubSport Steering Wheel Universal Hub EU/US/AU for Xbox One on the list so I'm assuming that I'm good to go with the V2 base since that is the hub that it uses?

I honestly haven't got a clue man, sorry. Savoury69 would be the man to ask but he's probably busy cutting his PS4 in half as I type this!
Grimey should know though.

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 17:36
I saw the Fanatec ClubSport Steering Wheel Universal Hub EU/US/AU for Xbox One on the list so I'm assuming that I'm good to go with the V2 base since that is the hub that it uses?

Your Good to Go for XB1!!! Its only Sony VS Fanatec issues:mad:

On My Way to pick up My PC Now!!! I may Never Buy a Condole Again!!!

Roger Prynne
19-08-2016, 20:51
Your Good to Go for XB1!!! Its only Sony VS Fanatec issues:mad:

On My Way to pick up My PC Now!!! I may Never Buy a Condole Again!!!

Have you got a cold? :concern:

GrimeyDog
19-08-2016, 21:05
LOL...Yeah im getting over the Console Virus i had:hopelessness:

Working on setting up PC Now!!!

morpwr
19-08-2016, 21:51
@morpwr after jacks latest car settings update what rab setting did you end up going with? I havnt got to play much since his update. When I did try his latest settings with rab 0.03 some cars felt fine but others felt wrong. Then I read you put the rab at 0.10 so I did that to and the cars that felt wrong felt fine again. Then I read you found out you had error message about your ffb being corrupt so I checked mine but I don't have any error messages about corrupt ffb. After reinstalling the game are you using your same settings or did you have to change something to gets jacks settings to work? I'll get to get back on tonight finally

Sorry I didn't get back faster. My girlfriends 40th birthday is tomorrow so ive been busy getting ready for the party. Doesn't help she has a twin sister so its a big party. But she puts up with me so its the least I could do.lol Yes I had corrupted ffb again.:mad: But I had the same results as you some felt good some just felt wrong. Way too heavy and really hard to tell what the rear is doing until its too late. Like you ive tried both rab setting and in between but really didn't make any progress with these new settings. I may play with the settings some tonight but if I don't make any real progress I'm just going to stick with the 2.9 settings at this point. It almost seems like somewhere between these 2.9 and 3.0 settings would have been perfect.

morpwr
19-08-2016, 21:53
LOL...Yeah im getting over the Console Virus i had:hopelessness:

Working on setting up PC Now!!!

You guys are killing me..... everyones going pc.

morpwr
19-08-2016, 22:02
Thanks for that info... The Thread has Been Derailed...LOL... We talk about what ever is Mist Relevant at the current time... We will get back to FFB when or if we Need to or Some one Needs Help... Good to see you posting again:yes:

As long as its helping each other its all good here!

Jezza819
19-08-2016, 22:37
You guys are killing me..... everyones going pc.

I don't have enough room for a separate gaming PC. Plus I don't think it would be cost effective since the only games I play are racing games. The only way I could ever do it would be that it has to double as my everyday laptop. My current laptop is getting a little long in the tooth, it's 6 years old now which I guess is almost like a Model T in current technology.

BigDad
20-08-2016, 02:04
Big Dad you Do know this is All your Fault Right!!!
You were the First 1 of the Group to Switch to PC and then came back Screaming How Much Better it was:congratulatory:

Then Haiden Moved to PC Screaming How PC Gaming is soo Much Better:yes:

By Default you caused a Chain Reaction.... Lets See who is Next to Follow???

I have been saying im going to PC for a Bit but was just Stradling the fence about it... after reading all of you and Haidens Comments on How Much better it is plus with all the Console wheel Not working contraversy i just woke up and said its time!!!... In the Long Run i will end up saving more than i spent.... Probably will Never Buy a Console Again and i dont have yo worry about buying New wheels or Rims just so My equipment will work... Plus i will just stay Home and Game for a Bit!!! Sheesh Im in NY!!! Every time you go out it cost $100 and thats a cheap Night!!!
You can thank me later :-)

BigDad
20-08-2016, 02:13
I wish i had that $$$ aint a problem issue:p

I just figure why wait since im doing it Now might as well go all in and let Micro Center Slap innthe extra Card because i dont want any funny biz honoring the warrenty if i have to take it back to them for any reason.

I was doing alot of reading about the Graphics card for a bit before i chose the 1070FTW card.

This Video compares the Titan VS 1080 VS 2x 1070FTW in SLI and for a few $189 more than the EVGA 1080 but for Much Less than the Price of a Titan the 2x 1070FTW SLI Combo performance wise Gives the Best Bang for the $$$!!!

This Video Sealed the Deal Check it out...I was Contemplating Stalling, Stradling the Fence about doing 2x Graphics Cards but this Comparrison Video made the Choice easy:yes:

https://youtu.be/Xf6RmKhSApw


Higher FPS Monitors would be Nice but My Gaming Hardware Budget is Done for the Rest of the Year:rolleyes:... Maybe:o... LOL... Im going to wait for VR tec to get better... I will Go VR before i go 3 monitor set up... VR has more appeal to Me and takes up Less Space:yes:

But im Glad i Finally made the move...Now that its done its just a matter to let My pockets Recoup...Total build cost is Now at $2,200.... LOL!!! I did exactly what i been saying for months i was Not going to do!!!
Wow , thats quite a build , i thought mine was exy at $1300usd .
You are going to be blown away with how good it is going to look , 4K at 60 fps looks awesome especially considering the ps4 we were playing struggled at 60fps at upscaled 720p to 1080p ,lol
Getting a 144hz monitor would be good and all but try finding a 55" one .

GrimeyDog
20-08-2016, 05:46
Darn Grimey!!! I was wanting to hold out until PC2 was released before dumping the console but now I also have decided to make a trip to Micro Center in Brentwood, Mo. Please, don't forget to update your signature with your new PC build. I think for my needs I will go with just one 1070FTW card. I'm probably still looking at 2K out of pocket for the build.


My Build was $2.2 k but that was with the build fee that was less than $200.... I think it was $135.00 to be exact.
You wont be sorry if you go with a 1 or 2 1070 build!!!
WOW Just WOW!!! Im Mean Really Just WOW!!!... The 2 K went all towards Balanced PC power!!! the build was less than $200. i thoght that was a steal!!!

The 1070 SLI is bad ass!!! Look at these stats...i think i paid $915. for the 2... But the 1 1080 was $800. just for the 1!!! but look at the bang you get for 2...people are posting these vids all over you tube... im set for a few years.

https://youtu.be/gFpodXvSLPU?list=PL080-RMKrpRfJJ_yC_ifMgJ_NdWYgsoN8

GrimeyDog
20-08-2016, 05:54
Wow , thats quite a build , i thought mine was exy at $1300usd .
You are going to be blown away with how good it is going to look , 4K at 60 fps looks awesome especially considering the ps4 we were playing struggled at 60fps at upscaled 720p to 1080p ,lol
Getting a 144hz monitor would be good and all but try finding a 55" one .

With V sync on My Frame rate even with the rain on wont drop below 60!! when i cut V sync off the frame rate goes bananas!!! i hit between 70 and 100 easily!!! and that with UHD!!! i dont think the TV can handle it!!! Because the Picture frames get outta wack... Im doing 85% ultra settings and Not 1 Dip below 60fps... Im Going Full Ultra and see what happens!!! Post back in a sec... LOL

also have you made sure that they set you graphics card to 60htz??? Check it because mine was set to 30.

BigDad
20-08-2016, 06:25
With V sync on My Frame rate even with the rain on wont drop below 60!! when i cut V sync off the frame rate goes bananas!!! i hit between 70 and 100 easily!!! and that with UHD!!! i dont think the TV can handle it!!! Because the Picture frames get outta wack... Im doing 85% ultra settings and Not 1 Dip below 60fps... Im Going Full Ultra and see what happens!!! Post back in a sec... LOL

also have you made sure that they set you graphics card to 60htz??? Check it because mine was set to 30.

Awesome Mate and yeah my gpu is set for max performance 3840x2160 @60 single monitor and fast sync on.
Got AC stable @70fps now.

BigDad
20-08-2016, 06:29
235497

GrimeyDog
20-08-2016, 10:10
Im gonna call it "Brute"
i will post better pics and info but im tierd been up 25hrs as of now!!! i couldnt rip My self away frm the New Toy.

Im Getting constant 90+ FPS in UHD but the TV cant handle it... I turn on v sync so that the FPS locks at 60 and PCars is Amazing!!!I have not seen it dip below 57 All settings maxed out!!!... it was set to thunder storm and a 16 car grid.

Im Not leaving everything maxed out... Picture is too sharp, Crisp, Bright and hurts My eyes.

GrimeyDog
20-08-2016, 10:18
Yesss Sir!!! I can Now Confirm My FFB Settings Work 1 to 1 with PC as they Do Console Using the V2 Wheel!!! feels Really Nice even better and more detailed on PC!!!

PCars on PC is definitly More sime like than PS4 Pcars... PS4 compared to PC the cars feel like they Have Super grip and the tires on PS4 get Hotter Quicker and don't cool Off your tires on PC are always trying to Cool Off... Its not a bad thing its much more challenging and immersive!!!

Haiden
20-08-2016, 22:56
Looks like it's not just PS4/Fanatec players that are going to be unhappy with the console version.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47635-Assetto-Corsa-car-list-for-consoles/page27

Jezza819
21-08-2016, 07:43
If you donīt have oscillation issues increase Mz, on the FA I think I have it at 0.2, 0.3 or 0.35 is appropriate, unfortunately curb response isnīt
good on this car. Note, all high downforce cars have lots of dynamic.

Also note, my sets are based on certain ratios adding the same value to all forces will destroy the balance, for instance Fy mostly is twice or even
way more stronger than Mz. On high downforce cars I kept Mz lower than normal to avoid oscillation.

I haven't had the chance to try the Formula A yet.

But I've had another issue come up. For some reason Grimey's numbers that I've been using have sort of stopped working on a few cars. One in particular is the Aston Martin GT3. Maybe it's because I don't drive it that often but whatever it is it just started sliding around too much for my liking. So I put your 66% numbers on it but now it feels very soft. At least the steering does. It's very light and imprecise and feels somewhat notchy. Sometimes it feels like heavy understeer, then all of the sudden on the next corner it throws too much steering input and causes an oversteer spinout. I've tried raising my Tire Force up to 85 and Force Feedback to 50. What else can I try? Different set of numbers? Raise FFB more? After about my 6th spinout at Road America I gave up on it last night. If I didn't stop the next step was probably the sledge hammer upside the wheel, tv, Xbox, the whole lot. I was so mad I couldn't see straight.

I swear it's like this game wakes up in a whole new world at times. What worked just 24 hours or less ago now feels totally different.

Jack Spade
21-08-2016, 09:09
I haven't had the chance to try the Formula A yet.

But I've had another issue come up. For some reason Grimey's numbers that I've been using have sort of stopped working on a few cars. One in particular is the Aston Martin GT3. Maybe it's because I don't drive it that often but whatever it is it just started sliding around too much for my liking. So I put your 66% numbers on it but now it feels very soft. At least the steering does. It's very light and imprecise and feels somewhat notchy. Sometimes it feels like heavy understeer, then all of the sudden on the next corner it throws too much steering input and causes an oversteer spinout. I've tried raising my Tire Force up to 85 and Force Feedback to 50. What else can I try? Different set of numbers? Raise FFB more? After about my 6th spinout at Road America I gave up on it last night. If I didn't stop the next step was probably the sledge hammer upside the wheel, tv, Xbox, the whole lot. I was so mad I couldn't see straight.

I swear it's like this game wakes up in a whole new world at times. What worked just 24 hours or less ago now feels totally different.

First of all you should stick to those values I have posted on the first page of my thread, youīre on a CSWv2 as I am, BTW I use the CSWv2 alternative setting (red marked).
In general all cars are in the same ballpark with any of the sets concerning their global force level, high downforce cars are an exception due to their dynamic.
If the wheel feels too strong on your XBOX lower SG.

GrimeyDog
21-08-2016, 09:14
I haven't had the chance to try the Formula A yet.

But I've had another issue come up. For some reason Grimey's numbers that I've been using have sort of stopped working on a few cars. One in particular is the Aston Martin GT3. Maybe it's because I don't drive it that often but whatever it is it just started sliding around too much for my liking. So I put your 66% numbers on it but now it feels very soft. At least the steering does. It's very light and imprecise and feels somewhat notchy. Sometimes it feels like heavy understeer, then all of the sudden on the next corner it throws too much steering input and causes an oversteer spinout. I've tried raising my Tire Force up to 85 and Force Feedback to 50. What else can I try? Different set of numbers? Raise FFB more? After about my 6th spinout at Road America I gave up on it last night. If I didn't stop the next step was probably the sledge hammer upside the wheel, tv, Xbox, the whole lot. I was so mad I couldn't see straight.

I swear it's like this game wakes up in a whole new world at times. What worked just 24 hours or less ago now feels totally different.

You may need to reset that particular car settings back to default the Re enter your preferred FFB tweek and car tune.

Haiden
21-08-2016, 13:05
I haven't had the chance to try the Formula A yet.

But I've had another issue come up. For some reason Grimey's numbers that I've been using have sort of stopped working on a few cars. One in particular is the Aston Martin GT3. Maybe it's because I don't drive it that often but whatever it is it just started sliding around too much for my liking. So I put your 66% numbers on it but now it feels very soft. At least the steering does. It's very light and imprecise and feels somewhat notchy. Sometimes it feels like heavy understeer, then all of the sudden on the next corner it throws too much steering input and causes an oversteer spinout. I've tried raising my Tire Force up to 85 and Force Feedback to 50. What else can I try? Different set of numbers? Raise FFB more? After about my 6th spinout at Road America I gave up on it last night. If I didn't stop the next step was probably the sledge hammer upside the wheel, tv, Xbox, the whole lot. I was so mad I couldn't see straight.

I swear it's like this game wakes up in a whole new world at times. What worked just 24 hours or less ago now feels totally different.

With FF=50, the notchiness you're feeling is probably deadzone related. Try increasing your DRR by increments of one, until the notch and loose feeling go away.

Also, one of the problems with the new FA setting is the low Mz. If you're having oscillation issues, then lowering it helps, but if you're not, then it just makes the wheel feel less snappy. I raised my Mz back up, and the FA started feeling fine again.

Haiden
21-08-2016, 13:42
Here's a great post on graphic settings.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22375-Technical-TroubleShooting-Steps-WIP-NO-CHAT-PLEASE&p=886927&viewfull=1#post886927

Also, something in that post that caught my eye.


Overclocking: Project CARS is very VERY demanding in all fronts, CPU (Physics for instance) and GPU (those nicely looking cars draw nice power from your GPU). Sometimes, even the slight overclocking can make the game crash. On my tests, only rising the voltage on my GPU made the game unstable. Even those "official overclockings" should be disabled for troubleshooting.

I almost went with overclocking, too. At the last minute, I called and told them not to worry about it. I didn't know about this, but figured the system was powerful enough already, so it was something I'd do later down the road if needed, after I researched the pros and cons.

This video gives good comparative examples of low, med, high, and ultra settings, so you can see the differences side-by-side and decide which settings you want to adjust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdUmhUhSgYk

GrimeyDog
21-08-2016, 20:21
I dont plan on over clocking... No need to... the i5 and i believe the i7 have a auto boost feature built in them that they will auto boost them selves when they need to... this is why they are soo easy to over clock because the listed specs are below their true performance limits.

Roger Prynne
21-08-2016, 20:31
And a lot of people have had problems with the auto boost feature and pCARS, so have had to turn it off.

rosko
21-08-2016, 21:05
Pcars doesn't push the cpu that much, i have an old 2700k i7 & it doesn't break a sweat. I think if you have an AMD GFX card for some odd reason you get poor cpu performance but if you use a geforce you should be fine.

Jezza819
21-08-2016, 21:33
First of all you should stick to those values I have posted on the first page of my thread, youīre on a CSWv2 as I am, BTW I use the CSWv2 alternative setting (red marked).
In general all cars are in the same ballpark with any of the sets concerning their global force level, high downforce cars are an exception due to their dynamic.
If the wheel feels too strong on your XBOX lower SG.

Well I'm not using your complete settings which might be the problem. I'm trying to use one set of globals with another set of FFB numbers. It's just so much of a hassle to change EVERYTHING over for just a car or two. That goes back to that chart I need to make to write down all of the settings so I can change quicker and then go back to Grimey's for what those work best on. I've just been too lazy to break down and do it.

When the game first came out I was using your settings but I didn't really like them. That's when I started adding a little here and there and got it somewhat livable even though you say not to do that. Then SMS started fiddling with the FFB and got even that out of whack. I tried Haiden's settings, didn't like them. Then settled on Grimey's numbers which have been very good with a few exceptions. But when I've ran into these exceptions I haven't tried changing the entire car over.


You may need to reset that particular car settings back to default the Re enter your preferred FFB tweek and car tune.

I did that. I always use default tunes.


With FF=50, the notchiness you're feeling is probably deadzone related. Try increasing your DRR by increments of one, until the notch and loose feeling go away.

Also, one of the problems with the new FA setting is the low Mz. If you're having oscillation issues, then lowering it helps, but if you're not, then it just makes the wheel feel less snappy. I raised my Mz back up, and the FA started feeling fine again.

I think it might be that I'm feeling the brakes and bumps in the track feeding back through the wheel. What's DRR?

Putting Jack's 66% on the FA took care of the oscillation but it left the wheel very light and understeering.

GrimeyDog
21-08-2016, 23:37
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GrimeyDog http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?p=1300968#post1300968)
You may need to reset that particular car settings back to default the Re enter your preferred FFB tweek and car tune.
I did that.

"Jezza819 I always use default tunes.





Try My settings Global settings... Remember they are very universal as far as in car settings are concerned... You can use Masters 100, 200 or Set them down as Low as you want... set the masters to best Match the Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz & SOP you like best... Remember the Most important part is Global settings once those are set Correctly to avoid Clipping... You simply adjust the in car settings Fx etc to bring out what you most want to feel then adjust the in Car Masters per Car to set the FFB Strength to best fit you.

Im Playing on PC Now and the FFB settings ported PS4 to PC 1 to 1!!! Sooo Far i find No Need to Make any Changes... The FFB on PC is Much More Nuanced and Detailed especially the Weight Transfer Feel... The Tire Heat and Grip Levels are More Challenging on PC because the Tires Dont Get as Hot on PC as they do on PS4 and they Cool off alot quicker... It makes Me wonder if i was Really Sim Racing on Console!!! PC Pcars Feels Much More Like a True Sim.

poirqc
22-08-2016, 00:47
Well I'm not using your complete settings which might be the problem. I'm trying to use one set of globals with another set of FFB numbers. It's just so much of a hassle to change EVERYTHING over for just a car or two. That goes back to that chart I need to make to write down all of the settings so I can change quicker and then go back to Grimey's for what those work best on. I've just been too lazy to break down and do it.

When the game first came out I was using your settings but I didn't really like them. That's when I started adding a little here and there and got it somewhat livable even though you say not to do that. Then SMS started fiddling with the FFB and got even that out of whack. I tried Haiden's settings, didn't like them. Then settled on Grimey's numbers which have been very good with a few exceptions. But when I've ran into these exceptions I haven't tried changing the entire car over.



I did that. I always use default tunes.



I think it might be that I'm feeling the brakes and bumps in the track feeding back through the wheel. What's DRR?

Putting Jack's 66% on the FA took care of the oscillation but it left the wheel very light and understeering.

DRR = Deadzone removal range. Depending on other globals, you may need more or less. In any case, you need to use just the right amount. Enough to cover the deadzone. Not too much to boost "low forces" too much. When DRR is set just righ, put Deadzone Removal falloff to 1/10 of DRR. Then, you could lower it slowing until you start to get rattling when running over curbs and stuff, around TDC.

Essentially, DRF set how fast DRR build up. You need just enough. But not too much.

BigDad
22-08-2016, 01:52
Here's a great post on graphic settings.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22375-Technical-TroubleShooting-Steps-WIP-NO-CHAT-PLEASE&p=886927&viewfull=1#post886927

Also, something in that post that caught my eye.



I almost went with overclocking, too. At the last minute, I called and told them not to worry about it. I didn't know about this, but figured the system was powerful enough already, so it was something I'd do later down the road if needed, after I researched the pros and cons.

This video gives good comparative examples of low, med, high, and ultra settings, so you can see the differences side-by-side and decide which settings you want to adjust.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdUmhUhSgYk

I've overclocked both my GPU and CPU everything runs fine until I play R3E and I get system shut down. But as soon as I start it again it's still in the game not fully restarting windows, weird. I thought a system crash would restart from the beginning not continue on from where it shut down.
On R3E, it runs really well when I unclock my CPU? But that game runs 4k @80fps no problem with stock components so no need for a Overclock anyway.
This might be my new go to Sim.

Jack Spade
22-08-2016, 07:24
Well I'm not using your complete settings which might be the problem. I'm trying to use one set of globals with another set of FFB numbers. It's just so much of a hassle to change EVERYTHING over for just a car or two. That goes back to that chart I need to make to write down all of the settings so I can change quicker and then go back to Grimey's for what those work best on. I've just been too lazy to break down and do it.

When the game first came out I was using your settings but I didn't really like them. That's when I started adding a little here and there and got it somewhat livable even though you say not to do that. Then SMS started fiddling with the FFB and got even that out of whack. I tried Haiden's settings, didn't like them. Then settled on Grimey's numbers which have been very good with a few exceptions. But when I've ran into these exceptions I haven't tried changing the entire car over.



I did that. I always use default tunes.



I think it might be that I'm feeling the brakes and bumps in the track feeding back through the wheel. What's DRR?

Putting Jack's 66% on the FA took care of the oscillation but it left the wheel very light and understeering.

This is just a wide spread rumour in this forum. The introduction of Steering Gain and Slow Speed Spring in early patches and a tire temperature fix
a few months ago were the only changes affecting FFB but none of it had a serious impact or even changed the system as such. Actually the last
system change took place in good old WMD days way before this game was released by the introduction of FFB topology 4.

Haiden
22-08-2016, 11:58
Hmmm... AC on PS4/Fanatec? Might just be one of those "We just can't actually say it things."

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47635-Assetto-Corsa-car-list-for-consoles&p=1301084&viewfull=1#post1301084

BigDad
22-08-2016, 13:57
Those new to pc and havnt got into RaceRoom Racing i'd strongly recommend grabbing the DTM 2013 experience for $12 (3 cars ,9 tracks) cranking up 4K max graphical settings and enjoy .
The pricing for content is quite interesting (good) using the in game store to purchase , cheaper than going through Steam and alot more content and it just uses your Steam wallet . If a pack you bought has,say Brand hatch in it ,if another pack has that track, also the pack price gets reduced by said amount , for instance the European track pack was $29 but after i bought the DTM pack that track pack is now only $18 , so all in all pretty great .

GrimeyDog
22-08-2016, 14:31
I have Race Room... I have Not down Loaded it yet though... Funny thing is i was Planning on doing it when i get home... I havent raced Race Room in a bit.... I cant rmemver how it Stacks up against Pcars.

Have you gotten Pcars yet for PC? ... Come on Man just break down and do it... LOL.

Soo Far i have had Goid Races with Haiden and Poirqc!!!

The driving Physics in Pcars are better than PS4 but the Lower car Classes are Notably Much better than PS4... I Noticed this Right away while Racing with Piurqc yesterday... The Race just launced No practice or Qualifying so i had Not set up any in Car FFB settings... But the car Drive and Handled Really well!!! it was a Good Race!!! It was My first time in yhat car on PC Poirqc Took the win but i hung in there with Him for a Clise Finish!!! Very exciting Race.

Where do you go on PC to look at your saved Videos??? If i can find it i will upload it.


I feel like 1 of the Big boys Now i finally Made it to PC Gaming.... LOL!!!

Haiden
22-08-2016, 14:33
Those new to pc and havnt got into RaceRoom Racing i'd strongly recommend grabbing the DTM 2013 experience for $12 (3 cars ,9 tracks) cranking up 4K max graphical settings and enjoy .
The pricing for content is quite interesting (good) using the in game store to purchase , cheaper than going through Steam and alot more content and it just uses your Steam wallet . If a pack you bought has,say Brand hatch in it ,if another pack has that track, also the pack price gets reduced by said amount , for instance the European track pack was $29 but after i bought the DTM pack that track pack is now only $18 , so all in all pretty great .

Cool. I think I'll give it a shot.

If you haven't already tried this mod for AC, you should. It's the most amazing F1 experience I've ever had in sim racing. Also, make sure you download the additional skins pack, which contains skins for the whole 2002 F1 season. With that, you can run a race with a full realistic grid. The car model is absolutely fantastic. The sounds and feel is just incredibly well done. Seriously, check it out!

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ferrari-f2002.116515/

BigDad
22-08-2016, 15:15
No Grimey i havnt got pCars for pc yet ,lol,maybe smsoon ,lol . Having soooo much fun in RaceRoom Racing (R3E) at the moment , i thought AC was great .
i've been jumping back and forth from AC to R3E but i've found i've tended to hang at R3E even though graphically AC pips it by a slight margin. The ffb , physics and sounds of R3E is just outstanding .
No Haiden i have deleted all mods from AC after a couple made AC run weird , but i did like the Koinseeg and Paul Ricard and might revisit mods after i buy and exhaust all content for RaceRoom Racing , might be a while .

Haiden
22-08-2016, 15:28
No Grimey i havnt got pCars for pc yet ,lol,maybe smsoon ,lol . Having soooo much fun in RaceRoom Racing (R3E) at the moment , i thought AC was great .
i've been jumping back and forth from AC to R3E but i've found i've tended to hang at R3E even though graphically AC pips it by a slight margin. The ffb , physics and sounds of R3E is just outstanding .
No Haiden i have deleted all mods from AC after a couple made AC run weird , but i did like the Koinseeg and Paul Ricard and might revisit mods after i buy and exhaust all content for RaceRoom Racing , might be a while .

RaceRooms total DLC is $160...LOL Free-to-play...from a certain perspective, that is...LOL

I know what you mean about AC mods. There are some bad ones out there, quite a few actually. The one above is fine, though. It's well done, runs smooth as silk, and the handling is just absolutely amazing. Physics-wise, it's one of the best cars in the game, better than Kunos' in-game cars. I've never driving an F1 car before, but I watch tons of racing, and this model feels and behaves exactly like what I would expect it to.

I also recommend the Hong point-to-point track mod. It makes for a great race, loads of fun with just about any car.

Gonna give RaceRoom a go tonight. Looking forward to it. :eagerness:

Roger Prynne
22-08-2016, 16:01
I have Race Room... I have Not down Loaded it yet though... Funny thing is i was Planning on doing it when i get home... I havent raced Race Room in a bit.... I cant rmemver how it Stacks up against Pcars.

Have you gotten Pcars yet for PC? ... Come on Man just break down and do it... LOL.

Soo Far i have had Goid Races with Haiden and Poirqc!!!

The driving Physics in Pcars are better than PS4 but the Lower car Classes are Notably Much better than PS4... I Noticed this Right away while Racing with Piurqc yesterday... The Race just launced No practice or Qualifying so i had Not set up any in Car FFB settings... But the car Drive and Handled Really well!!! it was a Good Race!!! It was My first time in yhat car on PC Poirqc Took the win but i hung in there with Him for a Clise Finish!!! Very exciting Race.

Where do you go on PC to look at your saved Videos??? If i can find it i will upload it.


I feel like 1 of the Big boys Now i finally Made it to PC Gaming.... LOL!!!

If you want to upload your replays to youtube for example, you have to record the replay or live with an external app, like MSI Afterburner, Nvidia ShadowPlay, Action!, Bandicam etc etc.

Replays are actually stored here.... 'Steam\userdata\********\234630\local\project cars\media', but you cant do anything with them, apart from sharing them with someone who has the game.

GrimeyDog
22-08-2016, 16:08
The Final word is in... There has been confirmation on the Fanatec forum from Some one that has AC on PS4 and their wheel is working... This is ofcourse Pre Sony 4.??? patch.

GrimeyDog
22-08-2016, 16:16
Question for the PC guys... Do you use V-sync or GPU to set your FPS... im using a TV thats 120htz so thats only 60fps... I have seen the TV do well over +100fps but i dont want to damage the TV by pushing FPS than it can Handle... Im using the FPS counter thats built into Steam.

Haiden
22-08-2016, 16:25
Question for the PC guys... Do you use V-sync or GPU to set your FPS... im using a TV thats 120htz so thats only 60fps... I have seen the TV do well over +100fps but i dont want to damage the TV by pushing FPS than it can Handle... Im using the FPS counter thats built into Steam.

You need to find your TV real refresh rate. If it has a real refresh rate of 120Hz, then you would be getting more than 60 fps. If you're only getting 60 fps, then the TV's real refresh rate is 60Hz. Most TVs only have a real refresh rate of 120Hz when displaying @ 1080p. At 4K, they only run at 60 Hz. That's why you use V-Sync. It keeps your GPU from throwing too many frames at the screen. At 60Hz, a GPU outputting 90+ fps will result in tearing. You can try the Fast Sync option, but, again, since the TV is only running 4K @ 60Hz, you'll still get tearing. I've tried Fast Sync and there isn't as much tearing as there is with no v-sync, but it's still there.

Basically, I don't know of any way to get 4K at 120Hz on a television, only on PC monitors running at 120+ Hz.

Edit: The Steam FPS monitor in the corner is showing you what your GPU is putting out, not what your TV is handling. If you've seen the count over 60, that's just because you have V-Sync off, and your card is throwing more frames at the TV, but that doesn't mean your TV is handling the extra frames, which is why you get tearing. At 4K, the TV can't run more than 60 fps, because it only runs at 60Hz.

Jezza819
22-08-2016, 17:55
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GrimeyDog http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?p=1300968#post1300968)
You may need to reset that particular car settings back to default the Re enter your preferred FFB tweek and car tune.
I did that.

"Jezza819 I always use default tunes.





Try My settings Global settings... Remember they are very universal as far as in car settings are concerned... You can use Masters 100, 200 or Set them down as Low as you want... set the masters to best Match the Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz & SOP you like best... Remember the Most important part is Global settings once those are set Correctly to avoid Clipping... You simply adjust the in car settings Fx etc to bring out what you most want to feel then adjust the in Car Masters per Car to set the FFB Strength to best fit you.

Im Playing on PC Now and the FFB settings ported PS4 to PC 1 to 1!!! Sooo Far i find No Need to Make any Changes... The FFB on PC is Much More Nuanced and Detailed especially the Weight Transfer Feel... The Tire Heat and Grip Levels are More Challenging on PC because the Tires Dont Get as Hot on PC as they do on PS4 and they Cool off alot quicker... It makes Me wonder if i was Really Sim Racing on Console!!! PC Pcars Feels Much More Like a True Sim.


Then settled on Grimey's numbers which have been very good with a few exceptions. But when I've ran into these exceptions I haven't tried changing the entire car over.




DRR = Deadzone removal range. Depending on other globals, you may need more or less. In any case, you need to use just the right amount. Enough to cover the deadzone. Not too much to boost "low forces" too much. When DRR is set just righ, put Deadzone Removal falloff to 1/10 of DRR. Then, you could lower it slowing until you start to get rattling when running over curbs and stuff, around TDC.

Essentially, DRF set how fast DRR build up. You need just enough. But not too much.

I don't think I've ever adjusted that before but I'll keep it in mind.


This is just a wide spread rumour in this forum. The introduction of Steering Gain and Slow Speed Spring in early patches and a tire temperature fix
a few months ago were the only changes affecting FFB but none of it had a serious impact or even changed the system as such. Actually the last
system change took place in good old WMD days way before this game was released by the introduction of FFB topology 4.

Whatever it was that altered the way the cars felt.

Roger Prynne
22-08-2016, 20:05
You need to find your TV real refresh rate. If it has a real refresh rate of 120Hz, then you would be getting more than 60 fps. If you're only getting 60 fps, then the TV's real refresh rate is 60Hz. Most TVs only have a real refresh rate of 120Hz when displaying @ 1080p. At 4K, they only run at 60 Hz. That's why you use V-Sync. It keeps your GPU from throwing too many frames at the screen. At 60Hz, a GPU outputting 90+ fps will result in tearing. You can try the Fast Sync option, but, again, since the TV is only running 4K @ 60Hz, you'll still get tearing. I've tried Fast Sync and there isn't as much tearing as there is with no v-sync, but it's still there.

Basically, I don't know of any way to get 4K at 120Hz on a television, only on PC monitors running at 120+ Hz.

Edit: The Steam FPS monitor in the corner is showing you what your GPU is putting out, not what your TV is handling. If you've seen the count over 60, that's just because you have V-Sync off, and your card is throwing more frames at the TV, but that doesn't mean your TV is handling the extra frames, which is why you get tearing. At 4K, the TV can't run more than 60 fps, because it only runs at 60Hz.

Strange as I've never had tearing, and my TV is just a cheap one, although it is 60 Hz and I get between 60 to 100 FPS.
I've never felt the need to use V-Sync.

Haiden
22-08-2016, 20:16
Strange as I've never had tearing, and my TV is just a cheap one, although it is 60 Hz and I get between 60 to 100 FPS.
I've never felt the need to use V-Sync.

Not that strange. Some card/display combos don't cause a lot of tearing--it can be so minimal, you can see it. But if you're card is throwing 100 frames at a screen with 60Hz refresh rate, then I'd be surprised if you aren't getting any tearing. Also, from your sig, it seems you're running a much lower resolution. A lot of HD and UHD TVs actually do run 1080p at 120Hz. They just can't run 4K at 120Hz. If you have one of those TVs, then that would explain it. And, IIRC, the enhanced motion rate that they use to claim their 120, can allow some TVs to get more than 60 fps sometimes with minimal to no tearing. How well the motion rate tech works, depends on the manufacturer. The tearing I see on mine isn't that bad. You have to really look at the background while driving to see it. But it's there, and once I know it's there, I can't stand it.

But, that said, if you're not getting any, then that's great. However, in my experience and research, that's not the norm, though.

Roger Prynne
22-08-2016, 21:36
Not that strange. Some card/display combos don't cause a lot of tearing--it can be so minimal, you can see it. But if you're card is throwing 100 frames at a screen with 60Hz refresh rate, then I'd be surprised if you aren't getting any tearing. Also, from your sig, it seems you're running a much lower resolution. A lot of HD and UHD TVs actually do run 1080p at 120Hz. They just can't run 4K at 120Hz. If you have one of those TVs, then that would explain it. And, IIRC, the enhanced motion rate that they use to claim their 120, can allow some TVs to get more than 60 fps sometimes with minimal to no tearing. How well the motion rate tech works, depends on the manufacturer. The tearing I see on mine isn't that bad. You have to really look at the background while driving to see it. But it's there, and once I know it's there, I can't stand it.

But, that said, if you're not getting any, then that's great. However, in my experience and research, that's not the norm, though.

Fair comment.

BigDad
22-08-2016, 22:38
RaceRooms total DLC is $160...LOL Free-to-play...from a certain perspective, that is...LOL

I know what you mean about AC mods. There are some bad ones out there, quite a few actually. The one above is fine, though. It's well done, runs smooth as silk, and the handling is just absolutely amazing. Physics-wise, it's one of the best cars in the game, better than Kunos' in-game cars. I've never driving an F1 car before, but I watch tons of racing, and this model feels and behaves exactly like what I would expect it to.

I also recommend the Hong point-to-point track mod. It makes for a great race, loads of fun with just about any car.

Gonna give RaceRoom a go tonight. Looking forward to it. :eagerness:

It won't work out to be $160 because alot of the packs have a couple of the same cars/tracks so each pack will discount depending on what you already own.
Just make sure to buy from the Raceroom store not Steam.

Haiden
22-08-2016, 23:31
It won't work out to be $160 because alot of the packs have a couple of the same cars/tracks so each pack will discount depending on what you already own.
Just make sure to buy from the Raceroom store not Steam.

Do you mean the DLC? If I get the core game from Steam, can I still get the DLC content from RR direct?

BigDad
23-08-2016, 01:07
Do you mean the DLC? If I get the core game from Steam, can I still get the DLC content from RR direct?

Yeah Mate just purchase or download the free game from Steam then in game there is a store icon just click on that and get whatever packs or individual cars/tracks you want and it just takes money from your Steam wallet.
Cheaper than Steam and more content.