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GrimeyDog
11-05-2017, 15:07
Thomas has confirmed several times that there will Be a Fanatc DD wheel... I forget the Topic but i think it was on PS4 wheel topic... I said "All i want is when a Fanatec DD wheel Comes out that the Existing Fanatec wheel Rims would work with it" Thomas Replied " I can allready Confirm that when a DD wheel is released that Current Existing Wheel Rims, Pedals would be Compatible with the DD wheel

The thing is Not if Fanatec will come out with a DD wheel But when???.... IMO we wont see a Fanatec DD wheel Before 2018!!!... the Quote is Lets talk about it later this year.... The Year is almost 1/2 over.... Maybe between Summer and Thanks Giving Next year seems to be the best Hope to see a Fanatec DD wheel... to again Quote Thomas " you have to be willing to pay for it" I dont think it will be Priced Cheap!!! it wont be budget friendly at all Its Going to Cost some $$$!!! They already have a Budget wheel--> CSL...Mid Tier ---> CSW v2.5 .... The DD will be their top of the line....IMO probably $1,500 or More!!! The v2.5 is soo Good I dunno if i want to pay that much if its Not a Huge performance increase.

Haiden
11-05-2017, 17:14
Thomas has confirmed several times that there will Be a Fanatc DD wheel... I forget the Topic but i think it was on PS4 wheel topic... I said "All i want is when a Fanatec DD wheel Comes out that the Existing Fanatec wheel Rims would work with it" Thomas Replied " I can allready Confirm that when a DD wheel is released that Current Existing Wheel Rims, Pedals would be Compatible with the DD wheel

The thing is Not if Fanatec will come out with a DD wheel But when???.... IMO we wont see a Fanatec DD wheel Before 2018!!!... the Quote is Lets talk about it later this year.... The Year is almost 1/2 over.... Maybe between Summer and Thanks Giving Next year seems to be the best Hope to see a Fanatec DD wheel... to again Quote Thomas " you have to be willing to pay for it" I dont think it will be Priced Cheap!!! it wont be budget friendly at all Its Going to Cost some $$$!!! They already have a Budget wheel--> CSL...Mid Tier ---> CSW v2.5 .... The DD will be their top of the line....IMO probably $1,500 or More!!! The v2.5 is soo Good I dunno if i want to pay that much if its Not a Huge performance increase.

If it's a 2018 thing, I might get a v2.5, in the interim, and then wait for DD reviews. The DD price isn't an issue. I'd buy an Accuforce right now if Thomas hadn't mentioned the DD. As long as Fanatec's price is comparable to that, I'm good. But I'm starting to think the Fanatec DD might be a longer way out. His comment about assuring that it would be compatible with the existing rim set, doesn't really mean that they actually have a product in development, only that when they do get around to it, it would be compatible. And, when you think about it, that's kind of a given. It would be silly of them to ever make a base that didn't work with the current rim set. With that in mind, we might not even see a DD from them until early 2019. Next month well be into June, so that would only be 18 months. Not an unrealistic time frame, considering there's been no official promotional mention of a DD wheel coming.

morpwr
12-05-2017, 01:50
If it's a 2018 thing, I might get a v2.5, in the interim, and then wait for DD reviews. The DD price isn't an issue. I'd buy an Accuforce right now if Thomas hadn't mentioned the DD. As long as Fanatec's price is comparable to that, I'm good. But I'm starting to think the Fanatec DD might be a longer way out. His comment about assuring that it would be compatible with the existing rim set, doesn't really mean that they actually have a product in development, only that when they do get around to it, it would be compatible. And, when you think about it, that's kind of a given. It would be silly of them to ever make a base that didn't work with the current rim set. With that in mind, we might not even see a DD from them until early 2019. Next month well be into June, so that would only be 18 months. Not an unrealistic time frame, considering there's been no official promotional mention of a DD wheel coming.


Id definitely wait. I just got an email from accuforce saying they had issues with the motor supplier and where working on options. Not because of problems but delivery. I do have to wonder if there will be improvements though. It only got brought up because they took the prices off their website so I asked why. They said they should have it straightened out in a couple of weeks. Did you guys catch the post on the Ferrari simulator on the ac forum. Its 15nm and that was with help from Ferrari engineers. If its good enough for them anything close is good enough for me.

Haiden
12-05-2017, 13:37
Id definitely wait. I just got an email from accuforce saying they had issues with the motor supplier and where working on options. Not because of problems but delivery. I do have to wonder if there will be improvements though. It only got brought up because they took the prices off their website so I asked why. They said they should have it straightened out in a couple of weeks. Did you guys catch the post on the Ferrari simulator on the ac forum. Its 15nm and that was with help from Ferrari engineers. If its good enough for them anything close is good enough for me.

What does Accuforce have to do with waiting on the Fanatec DD wheel? I was talking about getting the V2.5 if Fanatec's DD wasn't announced soon.

GrimeyDog
12-05-2017, 16:00
Even after Fanatec announces it... They will take a survey of how we would like it to be EX: Total power, Rim choices etc... It will still be Minimum 6months to1yr wait... and you know when Fanatec sez 6months its more like 9!!! Then shipping from where ever they are manufactured(China) and its 1yr!!!! They Do Make Great products though... LOL


Look How Long that Rim survey Been up!!! We havent seen a New rim Yet!!!

morpwr
15-05-2017, 10:46
What does Accuforce have to do with waiting on the Fanatec DD wheel? I was talking about getting the V2.5 if Fanatec's DD wasn't announced soon.

Not a thing if you read your post right.:o That's what I get for checking the forum when I'm exhausted. Last week was insanely busy.

morpwr
15-05-2017, 11:02
Anybody see we are supposed to be getting wind in the ac update Thursday? That should be interesting. Ive been doing the challenge races lately on alien and they are a lot of fun. Some are pretty easy and don't need any tuning some I'm not sure you could win if you don't do any tuning because the car doesn't handle well enough to be able to run down the top cars. Somebody probably could win them with a default setup but I couldn't.

Haiden
15-05-2017, 11:52
I hadn't seen that, but--coincidentally--I started driving the Audi RS GT3 last week. I've driven it before, but never in VR. Man...it's a blast! I've always liked the car, but hated how understeer prone it can be. I don't know if it's just AC or VR, but that doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. And the Fanatec flat rim, looks almost exactly like the in-car VR rim, size and shape-wise. Looks like I'll have a new Audi to play with when I get back from Vacation. :)

I also tried the Lotus Exige and few other road cars, like the 458. They sure do feel different in VR (for the better). Much easier to handle and feel what the car is doing when your depth and field of vision better matches your FFB.

The AI really vary from track to track in AC. Same class car--some tracks I'm taking 1st with AI at 100, others, I've got to push hard to just get into the top ten. I love the feel of AC, which is why I keep coming back. It's the best mix of graphics, physics, and FFB. Not to say any one of those things is the best in the sim, but overall, as a package, I think AC delivers the best mix of those elements. The AI needs work, though. I still have good races, but if they were a little more aggressive, I'm not sure I'd be playing much else these days. One thing I've noticed with AC, when it's clear to the AI that you are going to hold your line, they usually stick with you wheel to wheel. The less clear that is--like if your both barreling toward a corner, and you try to brake late on the inside, the AI will usually yield the corner if you enter the typical braking zone carrying more speed than it thinks you should. I can totally understand why they programmed it this way--better to have the AI error on the side of caution, than ruin a players race. Unfortunately, it often makes the AI seem skittish and timid, and becomes something you can exploit for an overtake.

Ekay.jay
15-05-2017, 19:23
Haiden I'm curious as to what your FFB settings are in assetto corsa, mind sharing?

Haiden
15-05-2017, 20:05
Haiden I'm curious as to what your FFB settings are in assetto corsa, mind sharing?

I'll post them tonight. The process of dialing it in I find to be very important, too. I'm sure there are multiple ways, but I follow these steps.

1. Set the in-car gain to 50%, and the @wheel gain to 75. Run a lap or two, until the FFB Clip app has it's reading and recommends a gain setting. The FFB will be light during those laps, but I think that's a good thing. One, you can feel more than you think, albeit soft, but the range is all there. Two, there's absolutely no clipping, so you get any idea of what the full range feels like, which makes you more attuned to changes or loss in the dynamic as you increase the gain.
2. Once the app recommends a gain, set it to about 10 increments lower and make sure that there's no clipping (or however much you feel is acceptable).
3. Start dialing up the @wheel gain. I keep the @wheel preset modes identical, except for FF, which I have rising. Mode1, FF=75; Mode2, FF=80, Mode3, FF=90, Mode4, FF=TBD. Obviously, you can use one mode and just dial it up. I just like the convenience.
4. Try out the different @wheel settings, until you settle on your sweet spot. There's really no right or wrong. At some point, you just decide that a certain weight (light or heavy), just seems to feel right to you for that particular car. :)

I can't recall ever setting the @wheel above 90, but that's what Mode4 would be for. Having the presets, makes it easier to shift between them. When the clip app recommends a gain of 70 or above, the Mode1 is usually fine. But when the gain recommendations drop below 70, I usually start adding strength at the wheel. If the recommended gain is under 60, @wheel FF=80-90 feels best to me. In fact, 90 feels great, but might be a little tiring on the arms for longer races.

I'll post the actual global settings later tonight. I haven't changed them in quite some time, and don't remember them. They're simple, though. I think the master is at 98%, no Enhanced Understeer, no Minimum Force, etc. Getting the in-car gain and wheel strength dialed seems to make a huge difference.

morpwr
15-05-2017, 22:04
I hadn't seen that, but--coincidentally--I started driving the Audi RS GT3 last week. I've driven it before, but never in VR. Man...it's a blast! I've always liked the car, but hated how understeer prone it can be. I don't know if it's just AC or VR, but that doesn't seem to be an issue anymore. And the Fanatec flat rim, looks almost exactly like the in-car VR rim, size and shape-wise. Looks like I'll have a new Audi to play with when I get back from Vacation. :)

I also tried the Lotus Exige and few other road cars, like the 458. They sure do feel different in VR (for the better). Much easier to handle and feel what the car is doing when your depth and field of vision better matches your FFB.

The AI really vary from track to track in AC. Same class car--some tracks I'm taking 1st with AI at 100, others, I've got to push hard to just get into the top ten. I love the feel of AC, which is why I keep coming back. It's the best mix of graphics, physics, and FFB. Not to say any one of those things is the best in the sim, but overall, as a package, I think AC delivers the best mix of those elements. The AI needs work, though. I still have good races, but if they were a little more aggressive, I'm not sure I'd be playing much else these days. One thing I've noticed with AC, when it's clear to the AI that you are going to hold your line, they usually stick with you wheel to wheel. The less clear that is--like if your both barreling toward a corner, and you try to brake late on the inside, the AI will usually yield the corner if you enter the typical braking zone carrying more speed than it thinks you should. I can totally understand why they programmed it this way--better to have the AI error on the side of caution, than ruin a players race. Unfortunately, it often makes the AI seem skittish and timid, and becomes something you can exploit for an overtake.


You should like the Thursday update then. I'm pretty sure it will have a bunch of ai changes and maybe a ai aggression slider. Pretty sure I saw that mentioned. I do agree you can take advantage of the ai in some cases but I learned one thing. You don't want to be on the outside of them in most cases. Every time I tried I lost and usually got forced off the track. But I have had some really good battles with them too were I went to 3 or 4 corners side by side with them. I don't think they are far off with the ai.

I don't think ive found one gt3 car I don't like they just drive a little different. I'm going to have to see what car it was last night I used but i figured I was going to hate it and it was a riot. It was just glued to the track. I definitely think vr changes a lot of things. Even when I go back to pcars some of the cars feel a lot better then I rememeber.

Haiden
16-05-2017, 11:40
Haiden I'm curious as to what your FFB settings are in assetto corsa, mind sharing?

Gain = 100
Filter = 1
Min Force = 0
Kerb Effects = 20
Road Effecs = 30
Slip Effects = 25

Enhanced Understeer = Off

Steering Gamma = 1.10
Steering Filter = 0
Steering Speed Sensitivity = 0

Again, I find that setting the in-car gain at least 10 increments lower than what the clipping app recommends, and then using the @wheel FF setting to increase the overall strength when needed, gives me the best feel. That said, there are a few car/track combos where the app will recommend a gain below 60, but I never set the in-car gain lower than 50. I hate that the in-car gain setting is track specific, but understand why they did that. The cornering forces changes from track to track, and more competitive racers like to adjust the gain to maximize their dynamic range per track.

Haiden
16-05-2017, 11:47
Anybody see we are supposed to be getting wind in the ac update Thursday? That should be interesting. Ive been doing the challenge races lately on alien and they are a lot of fun. Some are pretty easy and don't need any tuning some I'm not sure you could win if you don't do any tuning because the car doesn't handle well enough to be able to run down the top cars. Somebody probably could win them with a default setup but I couldn't.

This pack is getting better and better. Figures, considering I'm leaving for vacation the day it drops...LOL.

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/introducing-the-maserati-mc12-for-assetto-corsa.135798/


But this!!!!! "...what makes this new FRX17 car special is the decision by Sector3 Studios to retain a big, noisy, powerful V10 3.0 litre engine in the back of the car..."

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/formula-raceroom-x17-announced-for-raceroom-racing-experience.135791/

Now, that's going to be fun to drive. :eagerness:

morpwr
16-05-2017, 12:57
This pack is getting better and better. Figures, considering I'm leaving for vacation the day it drops...LOL.

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/introducing-the-maserati-mc12-for-assetto-corsa.135798/


But this!!!!! "...what makes this new FRX17 car special is the decision by Sector3 Studios to retain a big, noisy, powerful V10 3.0 litre engine in the back of the car..."

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/formula-raceroom-x17-announced-for-raceroom-racing-experience.135791/

Now, that's going to be fun to drive. :eagerness:


I'm actually really looking forward to both of those. Even the x17 that thing is going to be fun and it sounds amazing! But the ac update looks really good I don't know why guys are complaining. But I guess that will never stop.lol

Haiden
16-05-2017, 13:40
I'm actually really looking forward to both of those. Even the x17 that thing is going to be fun and it sounds amazing! But the ac update looks really good I don't know why guys are complaining. But I guess that will never stop.lol

What's not to like? The updates are welcome--wind affect, AI, etc--and the car list is sweet. I could see if they were complaining about the car models, but they haven't even driven them yet. :)

morpwr
16-05-2017, 15:46
What's not to like? The updates are welcome--wind affect, AI, etc--and the car list is sweet. I could see if they were complaining about the car models, but they haven't even driven them yet. :)

Exactly I think its one of the best updates so far. Even though I may not have picked those cars I cant see where I wont like or at least be able to appreciate every one of them. Looking forward to beating on the audi tt.:)

Haiden
17-05-2017, 15:52
Exactly I think its one of the best updates so far. Even though I may not have picked those cars I cant see where I wont like or at least be able to appreciate every one of them. Looking forward to beating on the audi tt.:)

Vacation starts tomorrow, so I set aside a few hours last night to race. Toward the end of the last session, I accidentally shut the computer down while paused in the pits. When I restarted AC, I couldn't get past the loading screen. It would just return to the menu. Great... just what I need, so I won't be able to check out the updates when I get back. :dejection:

After 30 minutes, I tracked the problem down to FFB Clip. The app must have gotten corrupted when the PC shutdown while it was running. Crisis averted. :eagerness:

Man, if they solve the AI issues, I'll be stuck in AC for a while. I had some great races yesterday in single player, and then a few online races at Mugello with the Z4, Ferrari 458 GT2, and McLaren 12c GT3. The Ferrari was the most fun to drive, because of the sequential shifter, but I think I had a better pace in the Z4.

I'm curious to check out the AI changes.

GrimeyDog
18-05-2017, 00:46
Accuforce wheel!!! Check their web site!!! Best of all there was a Big Price Drop!!! the Complete Accuforce pro V2 $1299.00!!! there are other packages also that cost less

morpwr
18-05-2017, 01:18
Accuforce wheel!!! Check their web site!!! Best of all there was a Big Price Drop!!! the Complete Accuforce pro V2 $1299.00!!! there are other packages also that cost less

Already knew that but don't ask me how.;) That makes it really hard to ignore at that price with the same performance.

morpwr
18-05-2017, 01:28
Vacation starts tomorrow, so I set aside a few hours last night to race. Toward the end of the last session, I accidentally shut the computer down while paused in the pits. When I restarted AC, I couldn't get past the loading screen. It would just return to the menu. Great... just what I need, so I won't be able to check out the updates when I get back. :dejection:

After 30 minutes, I tracked the problem down to FFB Clip. The app must have gotten corrupted when the PC shutdown while it was running. Crisis averted. :eagerness:

Man, if they solve the AI issues, I'll be stuck in AC for a while. I had some great races yesterday in single player, and then a few online races at Mugello with the Z4, Ferrari 458 GT2, and McLaren 12c GT3. The Ferrari was the most fun to drive, because of the sequential shifter, but I think I had a better pace in the Z4.

I'm curious to check out the AI changes.


I had that happen with the ffb app after an update too so keep that in mind.lol I'm still working on beating the alien races in the challenges and the fastest laptimes. Its actually a lot of fun driving different stuff and some of the challenges are tough. From what I read the changes to the ai are really good. I'm in the same boat ive got a thing at the kids school tomorrow night so I'm not sure ill have a chance to try it out tomorrow.Im sure going to try though.:)

morpwr
18-05-2017, 10:49
It looks like the dd wheel fight is really going to heat up. Which is good for us sim racers. So it looks like you can make a good dd wheel for about 1000 dollars now. I know that was one of the reasons everyone said the new thrustmaster wheel couldn't possibly be dd but maybe it can. My guess is fanatec will probably be in that area too. With the recent price drop that really puts it into a much more affordable range especially if you have a wife/girlfriend. 1200 dollars sounds a lot better then 1700.lol The best part is it makes the osw a much less attractive option because you don't have the support of a company behind your wheel if you have problem. I maybe going dd sooner then I thought.

Haiden
18-05-2017, 12:57
It looks like the dd wheel fight is really going to heat up. Which is good for us sim racers. So it looks like you can make a good dd wheel for about 1000 dollars now. I know that was one of the reasons everyone said the new thrustmaster wheel couldn't possibly be dd but maybe it can. My guess is fanatec will probably be in that area too. With the recent price drop that really puts it into a much more affordable range especially if you have a wife/girlfriend. 1200 dollars sounds a lot better then 1700.lol The best part is it makes the osw a much less attractive option because you don't have the support of a company behind your wheel if you have problem. I maybe going dd sooner then I thought.

I'm definitely going to wait for Fanatec's DD. But lately, I've been wondering the same thing as Grimey: How much better will the DD be in terms of fidelity? I'm only running the @wheel gain at 75-90, depending on the car and sim. And even when I'm running 90, the in-car gain is usually lower than it could be. Still, the force generated by the wheel is pretty strong. I even find myself turning it down sometimes for long races or over the course of a long session, because my arms just get tired. So, strength isn't an issue. I'm good as-is there. The question, at least for me, is how much more fidelity does Fanatec's DD wheel bring compared to the V2.5.

Right now, and Accuforce wheel just doesn't seem like an option for me. I'd basically being paying a premium price to end up with a single rim. I'm on the Fanatec train, and it wouldn't be wise to leave at this point. If Accuforce had a reasonably priced F1 rim, I'd consider it. Sim Commander is something I'd really like to try out, too. But I just hate driving open wheel with a GT style rim. Assuming that Fanatec's DD is a year or two away, I might go ahead and get the V2.5 now, and wait for the DD and see what the reviewer say about the fidelity improvements. If they aren't substantial, I can put the money toward something else on the rig, and wait for an upgrade that bring more value/utility to the table.

morpwr
18-05-2017, 13:59
I'm definitely going to wait for Fanatec's DD. But lately, I've been wondering the same thing as Grimey: How much better will the DD be in terms of fidelity? I'm only running the @wheel gain at 75-90, depending on the car and sim. And even when I'm running 90, the in-car gain is usually lower than it could be. Still, the force generated by the wheel is pretty strong. I even find myself turning it down sometimes for long races or over the course of a long session, because my arms just get tired. So, strength isn't an issue. I'm good as-is there. The question, at least for me, is how much more fidelity does Fanatec's DD wheel bring compared to the V2.5.

Right now, and Accuforce wheel just doesn't seem like an option for me. I'd basically being paying a premium price to end up with a single rim. I'm on the Fanatec train, and it wouldn't be wise to leave at this point. If Accuforce had a reasonably priced F1 rim, I'd consider it. Sim Commander is something I'd really like to try out, too. But I just hate driving open wheel with a GT style rim. Assuming that Fanatec's DD is a year or two away, I might go ahead and get the V2.5 now, and wait for the DD and see what the reviewer say about the fidelity improvements. If they aren't substantial, I can put the money toward something else on the rig, and wait for an upgrade that bring more value/utility to the table.


That makes total sense for you guys. I wasn't really saying accuforce is the way to go but more there could be many options soon in that price range. Which would be great for sim racers. I'm kind of surprised either of you is questioning the improvements in fidelity. Maybe because neither of you has a made a switch in a while as far as actual strength goes? Even the couple nm change thrustmaster made was a large improvement in the forces felt so I would assume that going up from 7- 13 or in your case 8-13 would be huge. I said assume because I have no way of knowing for sure at this point (none of us have a dd wheel yet)but past experience has shown any time you increase the strength of the wheel things get a lot better. I don't think its the actual overall strength but like you have said many times its a larger range to work in so you feel more of whats happening.

Haiden
18-05-2017, 14:52
That makes total sense for you guys. I wasn't really saying accuforce is the way to go but more there could be many options soon in that price range. Which would be great for sim racers. I'm kind of surprised either of you is questioning the improvements in fidelity. Maybe because neither of you has a made a switch in a while as far as actual strength goes? Even the couple nm change thrustmaster made was a large improvement in the forces felt so I would assume that going up from 7- 13 or in your case 8-13 would be huge. I said assume because I have no way of knowing for sure at this point (none of us have a dd wheel yet)but past experience has shown any time you increase the strength of the wheel things get a lot better. I don't think its the actual overall strength but like you have said many times its a larger range to work in so you feel more of whats happening.

Oh, I agree. The strength increase, could mean more/better fidelity. I'm just not sure how much. The V2 has always has had better fidelity than the TX/T300. The difference/gap in fidelity was wide. The TS-PC Racer is much better than the TX/T300, and closer to the V2, but still not quite as good (according to reviews I've seen). So going from a TX/T300, sure you notice a huge increase in fidelity. But from a V2 to a DD or a V2.5 to DD, the fidelity gap might not be as wide. And the increase in Nm force, might not be 1:1 in terms of how that translates to fidelity, like megapixels... 8 megapixels isn't actually twice as good as 4 megapixels. It could be a 1:1 with Nm, but I have no idea, not my area. That's why I want to check out the comparative reviews first to see how it stacks against the v2.5. Because the thing is, if it's only a little better fidelity-wise, that's not going to really make a huge difference, with regards to my driving performance. Once you get to a certain level of wheel, things like pedals and chassis make more of a difference. And given all the changes that are coming to sim genre, I think I'm going to sit back and see how things shake out, before I start making purchases like that. I'll buy a v2.5 for $500, but I need more info before I spend $1000+ on another wheel. :)

morpwr
18-05-2017, 16:01
Oh, I agree. The strength increase, could mean more/better fidelity. I'm just not sure how much. The V2 has always has had better fidelity than the TX/T300. The difference/gap in fidelity was wide. The TS-PC Racer is much better than the TX/T300, and closer to the V2, but still not quite as good (according to reviews I've seen). So going from a TX/T300, sure you notice a huge increase in fidelity. But from a V2 to a DD or a V2.5 to DD, the fidelity gap might not be as wide. And the increase in Nm force, might not be 1:1 in terms of how that translates to fidelity, like megapixels... 8 megapixels isn't actually twice as good as 4 megapixels. It could be a 1:1 with Nm, but I have no idea, not my area. That's why I want to check out the comparative reviews first to see how it stacks against the v2.5. Because the thing is, if it's only a little better fidelity-wise, that's not going to really make a huge difference, with regards to my driving performance. Once you get to a certain level of wheel, things like pedals and chassis make more of a difference. And given all the changes that are coming to sim genre, I think I'm going to sit back and see how things shake out, before I start making purchases like that. I'll buy a v2.5 for $500, but I need more info before I spend $1000+ on another wheel. :)



Well if everything goes right maybe ill be able to give us some real insight to how good these are.:D You know what I'm talking about.lol

GrimeyDog
18-05-2017, 16:12
The Diff in Subtle FFB feel between the v2 and v2.5 is Night and Day!!! The Drag Free wheel center Really Lets the Subtle FFB through...also the FFB Ramp up is Smoother... The total power of both v2 & v2.5 wheels is the same but the v2.5 feels stronger because of the Drag Free wheel center....

The v2.5 goes from Nothing--> Barley any Muscle use to increasing power and you compensate with muscle power accordingly to maintain control.

The v2 has Natural Drag to it so your already using Muscle to turn it and just have to add more Muscle to compensate for aditional FFB power according to whats going on Bumps, Curbs, weight transfer etc.

this is why even though v2 and v2.5 they are total same power the v2.5 feels stronger... The 1000Hz and Drag Free wheel center is just as Big a Game changer as VR!!!.... LOL--->Now days i only use o wheel FFB @50%!!! Maybe im just getting old and weak:p LOL

Edit:
Gear Driven wheel have always suffered from Cogging Feel... Its just inherent to Gear drive wheels.

Belt Driven wheels have always suffered from Drag that was just a default thing ingerent to Belt drive wheels due to lack of tec to remove it.

DD wheels Biggest advantage is that there is that they have always had faster response times 1000Hz or more, No Cogging or Drag feel... The extra power they provide is a Bonus.

Think about it we cant even Race with the wheels we have at 100% power<--can be very game settings dependent also.

My point is once Fanatec got the v2.5 wheel to 1000Hz and a Drag free Center that 8Nm feels like more than enough<---Note as i stated i onky use on wheel FFB @50% and its very strong!!!

Turn your wheel to 100% power then set DOR to 360 and Note just how much Fight the 8Nm gives you to over come the wheek soft Lock!!! Now imagine that or stronger kicking in as your in a corner under weight transfer or Hit a Curb:o

morpwr
18-05-2017, 21:32
The Diff in Subtle FFB feel between the v2 and v2.5 is Night and Day!!! The Drag Free wheel center Really Lets the Subtle FFB through...also the FFB Ramp up is Smoother... The total power of both v2 & v2.5 wheels is the same but the v2.5 feels stronger because of the Drag Free wheel center....

The v2.5 goes from Nothing--> Barley any Muscle use to increasing power and you compensate with muscle power accordingly to maintain control.

The v2 has Natural Drag to it so your already using Muscle to turn it and just have to add more Muscle to compensate for aditional FFB power according to whats going on Bumps, Curbs, weight transfer etc.

this is why even though v2 and v2.5 they are total same power the v2.5 feels stronger... The 1000Hz and Drag Free wheel center is just as Big a Game changer as VR!!!.... LOL--->Now days i only use o wheel FFB @50%!!! Maybe im just getting old and weak:p LOL

Edit:
Gear Driven wheel have always suffered from Cogging Feel... Its just inherent to Gear drive wheels.

Belt Driven wheels have always suffered from Drag that was just a default thing ingerent to Belt drive wheels due to lack of tec to remove it.

DD wheels Biggest advantage is that there is that they have always had faster response times 1000Hz or more, No Cogging or Drag feel... The extra power they provide is a Bonus.

Think about it we cant even Race with the wheels we have at 100% power<--can be very game settings dependent also.

My point is once Fanatec got the v2.5 wheel to 1000Hz and a Drag free Center that 8Nm feels like more than enough<---Note as i stated i onky use on wheel FFB @50% and its very strong!!!

Turn your wheel to 100% power then set DOR to 360 and Note just how much Fight the 8Nm gives you to over come the wheek soft Lock!!! Now imagine that or stronger kicking in as your in a corner under weight transfer or Hit a Curb:o


Id imagine by what you describe the updates to both our wheels is pretty similar. Yes mine got a small increase in strength but it also got the things you describe. You really notice the freeness if the car steps out. It feels much more natural with the pcracer. I don't disagree we will never run the wheels at 100 ffb but that isn't the reason the stronger wheel is important. Even turned down you still have a larger range to work plus all the other benefits of a dd wheel. That's why guys with weaker wheels complain about not feeling things. Its not because something is wrong the wheel simply cant reproduce it because you have already used up the narrow window you had to work in. Those things became really obvious with the recent wheel change for me. So its not really about the overall power but the bigger overall range the power provides.

Haiden
18-05-2017, 22:01
Id imagine by what you describe the updates to both our wheels is pretty similar. Yes mine got a small increase in strength but it also got the things you describe. You really notice the freeness if the car steps out. It feels much more natural with the pcracer. I don't disagree we will never run the wheels at 100 ffb but that isn't the reason the stronger wheel is important. Even turned down you still have a larger range to work plus all the other benefits of a dd wheel. That's why guys with weaker wheels complain about not feeling things. Its not because something is wrong the wheel simply cant reproduce it because you have already used up the narrow window you had to work in. Those things became really obvious with the recent wheel change for me. So its not really about the overall power but the bigger overall range the power provides.

I agree. But I do think a little of the DD craze has to do with Sim racer's mentality. We want the best, but sometimes forget we don't have the same needs as professionals. The higher end makers don't care what we spend our cash on, but I'm wondering if it's worth it for the level I'm at.

GrimeyDog
19-05-2017, 01:29
Id imagine by what you describe the updates to both our wheels is pretty similar. Yes mine got a small increase in strength but it also got the things you describe. You really notice the freeness if the car steps out. It feels much more natural with the pcracer. I don't disagree we will never run the wheels at 100 ffb but that isn't the reason the stronger wheel is important. Even turned down you still have a larger range to work plus all the other benefits of a dd wheel. That's why guys with weaker wheels complain about not feeling things. Its not because something is wrong the wheel simply cant reproduce it because you have already used up the narrow window you had to work in. Those things became really obvious with the recent wheel change for me. So its not really about the overall power but the bigger overall range the power provides.

Think about this...whats the diff between a wheel that's 1000Hz, 8Nm and has 5000 points of movement and a wheel that's 1000Hz, 16Nm and has 5000 points of movement??? absolutely nothing except the total strength--->The FFB Ramp up will Not be smoother or more detailed because they are both bound by the same Refresh rates/Hz and resolution/points of movement ... stronger does Not equal Better or More dynamic FFB range what makes for greater range of FFB effects is the wheel resolution and Refresh rate--> HZ/Response Time---> these 2 wheels will have the exact same FFB fidelity just 1 will be more powerful than the other...the stronger wheel will just add more voltage at 1 time but the fact is they both process FFB signal at the same rate and both only have a 5000 point of movement range to work within.

the way i see it is....

Hz or FFB Refresh rate is key because it determines how much FFB signal your wheel can decipher and reproduce within a given time range--->therefor lower Hz means you may miss out on FFB feel because your wheel may miss some FFB input<--- this is the case with alot of mid tier wheels.

Higher steering resolution is self explanatory<--- wheels with Lower steering resolution will also cause you to Not have accurate steering input and works hand in hand with the refresh rate...the higher the refresh rate the more accurate your steering resolution.

one thing that people don't consider is wheel frequency response range<--- lower end wheel will not be able to pick up the same signal range as higher end wheels so that's why people complain that they are missing FFB range<--- Some complain because they just don't know what they are looking for:confused:

all this being said 2 wheels equal and the same in every aspect except total power<-- like many DD wheels some are stronger than others but given all is the same except total Nm power rating they will both have the same FFB fidelity there will only be a diff in Max FFB power out put.
This is how i see it in my head<--- could be wrong could be right...Not debating just expressing My POV of how i think it works.

driveclub007
19-05-2017, 08:36
PROJECT CARS 2 RELEASE DATE 29 SEPT 2017

GrimeyDog
19-05-2017, 10:32
^^^ Im Not going to Hold My Breath... things always change or get pushed Back.... Im really Enjoying R3E!!! Pcars 2 is going to have to be Really Good!!!

I Hope the have Vr-Sli support in Pcars 2:glee:

morpwr
19-05-2017, 11:06
Think about this...whats the diff between a wheel that's 1000Hz, 8Nm and has 5000 points of movement and a wheel that's 1000Hz, 16Nm and has 5000 points of movement??? absolutely nothing except the total strength--->The FFB Ramp up will Not be smoother or more detailed because they are both bound by the same Refresh rates/Hz and resolution/points of movement ... stronger does Not equal Better or More dynamic FFB range what makes for greater range of FFB effects is the wheel resolution and Refresh rate--> HZ/Response Time---> these 2 wheels will have the exact same FFB fidelity just 1 will be more powerful than the other...the stronger wheel will just add more voltage at 1 time but the fact is they both process FFB signal at the same rate and both only have a 5000 point of movement range to work within.

the way i see it is....

Hz or FFB Refresh rate is key because it determines how much FFB signal your wheel can decipher and reproduce within a given time range--->therefor lower Hz means you may miss out on FFB feel because your wheel may miss some FFB input<--- this is the case with alot of mid tier wheels.

Higher steering resolution is self explanatory<--- wheels with Lower steering resolution will also cause you to Not have accurate steering input and works hand in hand with the refresh rate...the higher the refresh rate the more accurate your steering resolution.

one thing that people don't consider is wheel frequency response range<--- lower end wheel will not be able to pick up the same signal range as higher end wheels so that's why people complain that they are missing FFB range<--- Some complain because they just don't know what they are looking for:confused:

all this being said 2 wheels equal and the same in every aspect except total power<-- like many DD wheels some are stronger than others but given all is the same except total Nm power rating they will both have the same FFB fidelity there will only be a diff in Max FFB power out put.
This is how i see it in my head<--- could be wrong could be right...Not debating just expressing My POV of how i think it works.


What you said is true to a point. Obviously a higher refresh rate is going to be better but that's not the only thing involved. Youre absolutely wrong about both having the same fidelity. If that was the case my pcracer would feel exactly the same as my t300. Youre overlooking the fact the stronger wheel has a larger range of forces no matter what. If you only have a 0-8nm range to work in you can only reproduce so many forces in that range regardless of what you set the power level too. If the wheel has a 0-20nm range its going to have a much larger area to work in so you will feel more because you aren't trying to push everything into a smaller area. If what you said was correct nobody would worry about how strong a wheel is which we know isn't the case.

morpwr
19-05-2017, 11:09
^^^ Im Not going to Hold My Breath... things always change or get pushed Back.... Im really Enjoying R3E!!! Pcars 2 is going to have to be Really Good!!!

I Hope the have Vr-Sli support in Pcars 2:glee:

You have to try the new cars in ac.:) I only got to try the audi tt cars and the McLaren but they where awesome!!

I really hope all the game manufacturers take advantage of that. Id buy another 1080 in a heartbeat.

RomKnight
19-05-2017, 11:18
^^^ Im Not going to Hold My Breath... things always change or get pushed Back.... Im really Enjoying R3E!!! Pcars 2 is going to have to be Really Good!!!

I Hope the have Vr-Sli support in Pcars 2:glee:

Much more than any other and then some. But don't trust me. Just you wait ;)

ps: is vr-sli even foreseeable for anything in the near future? Only thing that works with it is still that nvidia funpark "demo" AFAIK so I don't think it's just a developer thing. If it is, better start saving myself for another 1080!

GrimeyDog
19-05-2017, 12:10
Mopwr i been doing reserch because of all the DD wheel talk... Did you know that the T300 and PC Racer have the same Steering resolution??? Exactly the same... Only thing i couldnt find is the Hz/Refresh rate for both wheels... Im pretty sure but i could be wrong so dont quote Me that the PC racer will have a Higher Hz/Refresh rate than the T300.... This is why you get better FFB from it... also the Better cooling helps too...but the Higher Hz i think is where the Biggest benefit is coming from.

Look up the PC racer vs T300 refresh rate see what you come up with.... I will be Valuable info as the DD dicussion continues.

Haiden
19-05-2017, 15:11
What you said is true to a point. Obviously a higher refresh rate is going to be better but that's not the only thing involved. Youre absolutely wrong about both having the same fidelity. If that was the case my pcracer would feel exactly the same as my t300. Youre overlooking the fact the stronger wheel has a larger range of forces no matter what. If you only have a 0-8nm range to work in you can only reproduce so many forces in that range regardless of what you set the power level too. If the wheel has a 0-20nm range its going to have a much larger area to work in so you will feel more because you aren't trying to push everything into a smaller area. If what you said was correct nobody would worry about how strong a wheel is which we know isn't the case.


Mopwr i been doing reserch because of all the DD wheel talk... Did you know that the T300 and PC Racer have the same Steering resolution??? Exactly the same... Only thing i couldnt find is the Hz/Refresh rate for both wheels... Im pretty sure but i could be wrong so dont quote Me that the PC racer will have a Higher Hz/Refresh rate than the T300.... This is why you get better FFB from it... also the Better cooling helps too...but the Higher Hz i think is where the Biggest benefit is coming from.

Look up the PC racer vs T300 refresh rate see what you come up with.... I will be Valuable info as the DD dicussion continues.

Refresh rate will allow the wheel to update the signal more often, basically, its how many times then wheel is asking the sim what it should be doing. The faster the rate, the more current the information the wheel is recieving and translating into force output. Obviously, the faster the more nuanced/dynamic the FFB will feel.

But the amount of force, Nm generated, is what helps you feels those changes/nuances. The larger the force curve, the more range your wheel has to operate in, and the easier it is to feel/detect the changes in FFB. As far as FFB dynamic range goes, refresh rate and Nm of force are cooperative, both contribute to the FFB. Improving either will improve the overall feel of the FFB. Improve them both, and you get you'll see a big difference.

GrimeyDog
19-05-2017, 18:06
What you said is true to a point. Obviously a higher refresh rate is going to be better but that's not the only thing involved. Youre absolutely wrong about both having the same fidelity. If that was the case my pcracer would feel exactly the same as my t300. Youre overlooking the fact the stronger wheel has a larger range of forces no matter what. If you only have a 0-8nm range to work in you can only reproduce so many forces in that range regardless of what you set the power level too. If the wheel has a 0-20nm range its going to have a much larger area to work in so you will feel more because you aren't trying to push everything into a smaller area. If what you said was correct nobody would worry about how strong a wheel is which we know isn't the case.

Ok so we All agree on Hz/Refresh rates Good...

Ok so if what your sating about power is true the we Need wheels that are infinitly powerful....Yup thats Ridiculouse i know.... Excessive power eventually becomes a point of Diminishing returns because to turn the wheel uo you have to turn the Game FFB Down or Vise Versa.... So at what Nm is enough to get maximum FFB feel??? No one knows or even has a Clue---> if so there would be forums and Guidlines about it.... We cant even Race with the wheels we have at full power.... I think once you get over 6 to 8Nm the whole DD more power thing is just a figment of our Imagination---> Sort of lime chasing the Ocars FFB unicorn again... Also Remember along with the Refreash rate the wheels electronics have to be able to pick up todays broader range of FFB signals... Sort of like watching a HD movie on a old tube TV yes the pucture will play But it will only display the range of signal that it can pick up/Decipher.... Older wheels vs New current gen wheels operate on the same principal.

@8Nm you may set GM FFB @100%
@16 Nm you may set GM FFB @50%
If both wheel have same refresh rate and steering resolution they will both have same FFB fidelity just 1 will have more total power.... The steps between 0 and 100% power for Both wheels will be exactly the same due to both having same refresh rate... only diff is the stronger will add 2x the power for every step in the FFB ramp up process.... The only way stronger would be Clearly better is if by default stronger Nm motors have Higher refresh rates.

Its only Human though...Once we have power we alwats want more power.... Its just the way things go...LOL

Haiden
19-05-2017, 18:55
Ok so we All agree on Hz/Refresh rates Good...

Ok so if what your sating about power is true the we Need wheels that are infinitly powerful....Yup thats Ridiculouse i know.... Excessive power eventually becomes a point of Diminishing returns because to turn the wheel uo you have to turn the Game FFB Down or Vise Versa.... So at what Nm is enough to get maximum FFB feel??? No one knows or even has a Clue---> if so there would be forums and Guidlines about it.... We cant even Race with the wheels we have at full power.... I think once you get over 6 to 8Nm the whole DD more power thing is just a figment of our Imagination---> Sort of lime chasing the Ocars FFB unicorn again... Also Remember along with the Refreash rate the wheels electronics have to be able to pick up todays broader range of FFB signals... Sort of like watching a HD movie on a old tube TV yes the pucture will play But it will only display the range of signal that it can pick up/Decipher.... Older wheels vs New current gen wheels operate on the same principal.

@8Nm you may set GM FFB @100%
@16 Nm you may set GM FFB @50%
If both wheel have same refresh rate and steering resolution they will both have same FFB fidelity just 1 will have more total power.... The steps between 0 and 100% power for Both wheels will be exactly the same due to both having same refresh rate... only diff is the stronger will add 2x the power for every step in the FFB ramp up process.... The only way stronger would be Clearly better is if by default stronger Nm motors have Higher refresh rates.

Its only Human though...Once we have power we alwats want more power.... Its just the way things go...LOL

Not sure what refresh rate has to do with the number of steps in the force curve.

GrimeyDog
19-05-2017, 21:25
Not sure what refresh rate has to do with the number of steps in the force curve.

While that may be a Good Question... For Me the Question that should be answered is why wouldnt the Refresh rate have something to do with the Force Curve.


Point still Remains that at a certain point Excessive power has Diminishing Returns---> in order to run 1 High the other Must be turned Down.... We cant even use the 8Nm wheels at 100% with out turning down GM FFB or Similar setting to reduce the power so the wheel is comfortable to use....

The other Key Question is what would be considered the Minimum Nm to get the Best FFB experience<--- Answer Unknown:confused:<---- its like chasing the Pcars FFB Unicorn again.

morpwr
19-05-2017, 22:03
Ok so we All agree on Hz/Refresh rates Good...

Ok so if what your sating about power is true the we Need wheels that are infinitly powerful....Yup thats Ridiculouse i know.... Excessive power eventually becomes a point of Diminishing returns because to turn the wheel uo you have to turn the Game FFB Down or Vise Versa.... So at what Nm is enough to get maximum FFB feel??? No one knows or even has a Clue---> if so there would be forums and Guidlines about it.... We cant even Race with the wheels we have at full power.... I think once you get over 6 to 8Nm the whole DD more power thing is just a figment of our Imagination---> Sort of lime chasing the Ocars FFB unicorn again... Also Remember along with the Refreash rate the wheels electronics have to be able to pick up todays broader range of FFB signals... Sort of like watching a HD movie on a old tube TV yes the pucture will play But it will only display the range of signal that it can pick up/Decipher.... Older wheels vs New current gen wheels operate on the same principal.

@8Nm you may set GM FFB @100%
@16 Nm you may set GM FFB @50%
If both wheel have same refresh rate and steering resolution they will both have same FFB fidelity just 1 will have more total power.... The steps between 0 and 100% power for Both wheels will be exactly the same due to both having same refresh rate... only diff is the stronger will add 2x the power for every step in the FFB ramp up process.... The only way stronger would be Clearly better is if by default stronger Nm motors have Higher refresh rates.

Its only Human though...Once we have power we alwats want more power.... Its just the way things go...LOL


You are looking at the strength(nm) as purely overall strength. That's not the whole story its a bigger range of forces available regardless of where you set the overall power level. You don't really think bodnar offers a 20nm and 30nm motor for nothing do you? Same goes for the osw the most common is 20 and 30nm motors. With many going for the bigger motor now. I don't understand how you could possibly think the wheels in your example would feel exactly the same. The refresh rate has nothing to do with how many forces a wheel can reproduce only that it wont miss them which are two totally different things.

GrimeyDog
19-05-2017, 23:00
You are looking at the strength(nm) as purely overall strength. That's not the whole story its a bigger range of forces available regardless of where you set the overall power level. You don't really think bodnar offers a 20nm and 30nm motor for nothing do you? Same goes for the osw the most common is 20 and 30nm motors. With many going for the bigger motor now. I don't understand how you could possibly think the wheels in your example would feel exactly the same. The refresh rate has nothing to do with how many forces a wheel can reproduce only that it wont miss them which are two totally different things.

Yes i believe that they will have the same "Usable FFB Range" but there will be Diff in only total FFB power... 8, 14, 20, 30 Nm None of them can you use at 100%FFB power and Race comfortably... Well unless your He Man;) LOL

I cant wrap My head around your theory so your just gonna have to explain How more power equals better FFB feel abd fidelity.... and No im Not trying to be thick hlHeaded or Argumentitive.... I really cant see how once you have a wheel thats already too strong to use at 100% that even more power can be useful....Explain this theory to Me Help Me understand.

Haiden
19-05-2017, 23:26
Yes i believe that they will have the same "Usable FFB Range" but there will be Diff in only total FFB power... 8, 14, 20, 30 Nm None of them can you use at 100%FFB power and Race comfortably... Well unless your He Man;) LOL

I cant wrap My head around your theory so your just gonna have to explain How more power equals better FFB feel abd fidelity.... and No im Not trying to be thick hlHeaded or Argumentitive.... I really cant see how once you have a wheel thats already too strong to use at 100% that even more power can be useful....Explain this theory to Me Help Me understand.

It was actually explained a few months ago in this thread. It's not the first time the topic has come up. I'd go through it again, but I'm on my phone between stops. But I think Morpwr makes a point you should consider. OSW, Bodnar, and the like aren't making strong motors just for kicks. Your question seems to suggest that you think they are just adding power for no reason, other than to make FFB stronger. Do you really think that the case, or is it more likely that you're just not understanding how it relates to improved fidelity? :)

GrimeyDog
20-05-2017, 01:12
Both...

morpwr
20-05-2017, 01:56
Both...

ok I'm gonna try one more time. The stronger motor has nothing to do with overall power they use them because you get a much bigger range of forces. You can only cram so much into a 0-8nm range now if you have 0-20nm you are definitely going to feel more things happening. Refresh rate means if the wheel is supposed to do something it will. Lower refresh rate you might miss something because the wheel couldn't keep up. Your wheel upgrade is a perfect example of that. You got a higher refresh rate and you get more information now. Now just think if you had a bigger area to put more forces in(more nm). I hope I got it this time.

Jack Spade
20-05-2017, 13:59
ok I'm gonna try one more time. The stronger motor has nothing to do with overall power they use them because you get a much bigger range of forces. You can only cram so much into a 0-8nm range now if you have 0-20nm you are definitely going to feel more things happening. Refresh rate means if the wheel is supposed to do something it will. Lower refresh rate you might miss something because the wheel couldn't keep up. Your wheel upgrade is a perfect example of that. You got a higher refresh rate and you get more information now. Now just think if you had a bigger area to put more forces in(more nm). I hope I got it this time.

Basically true, but you should consider the gameīs physics / FFB refresh or tick rate. Here in pCARS itīs 600 Hz, AC is 333 Hz for instance, so wheels running at 1000 Hz or even higher
than this donīt really benefit. IIRC the CSW v2 runs at 500 Hz.

morpwr
20-05-2017, 15:00
Basically true, but you should consider the gameīs physics / FFB refresh or tick rate. Here in pCARS itīs 600 Hz, AC is 333 Hz for instance, so wheels running at 1000 Hz or even higher
than this donīt really benefit. IIRC the CSW v2 runs at 500 Hz.


Hi Jack its been a while since we have seen you around here. I knew that most games aren't that fast yet but thanks for bringing that up in case someone following this didn't.

Haiden
20-05-2017, 15:03
Basically true, but you should consider the gameīs physics / FFB refresh or tick rate. Here in pCARS itīs 600 Hz, AC is 333 Hz for instance, so wheels running at 1000 Hz or even higher
than this donīt really benefit. IIRC the CSW v2 runs at 500 Hz.

Great point. Forgot to even consider that. Basically it's like v-sync on a 60Hz TV. Your GPU, might be capable of 120fps, but the TV is the lowest common denominator in the chain, so you're only going to get 60fps. Or a 100gb connection running through CAT5 cable. The cable limits the speed. A 1000HZ refresh rate doesn't make much difference if the game can't match it.

gotdirt410sprintcar
20-05-2017, 16:53
Whats up guys have a question have you heard off steering deadzone in controller settings effecting wheels in AC ps4. If so cool never new that but if you haven't i think it does. On pc everything is the same other than brake gamma pedals settings basically. Those same settings are there on pc right.

Grimey might of got it that time morpwr! lol good explanation .

morpwr
20-05-2017, 17:05
Whats up guys have a question have you heard off steering deadzone in controller settings effecting wheels in AC ps4. If so cool never new that but if you haven't i think it does. On pc everything is the same other than brake gamma pedals settings basically. Those same settings are there on pc right.

Grimey might of got it that time morpwr! lol good explanation .


I think so yes. Its been a while since ive been on a ps4 but kunos has been trying to catch the consoles up to pcs so I would assume they are the same. Its been so long since ive looked at any of the screens for settings I don't even remember whats exactly there. Which is a good thing.:)


I tried.

poirqc
20-05-2017, 19:02
Great point. Forgot to even consider that. Basically it's like v-sync on a 60Hz TV. Your GPU, might be capable of 120fps, but the TV is the lowest common denominator in the chain, so you're only going to get 60fps. Or a 100gb connection running through CAT5 cable. The cable limits the speed. A 1000HZ refresh rate doesn't make much difference if the game can't match it.

Since everything will rarely be sync'ed, i'd rather have the wheel wait for commands instead of having the wheel not keep up! :D

Haiden
20-05-2017, 19:26
Since everything will rarely be sync'ed, i'd rather have the wheel wait for commands instead of having the wheel not keep up! :D

Same. But that wasn't what we were talking about.

GrimeyDog
20-05-2017, 21:25
ok I'm gonna try one more time. The stronger motor has nothing to do with overall power they use them because you get a much bigger range of forces. You can only cram so much into a 0-8nm range now if you have 0-20nm you are definitely going to feel more things happening. Refresh rate means if the wheel is supposed to do something it will. Lower refresh rate you might miss something because the wheel couldn't keep up. Your wheel upgrade is a perfect example of that. You got a higher refresh rate and you get more information now. Now just think if you had a bigger area to put more forces in(more nm). I hope I got it this time.

This is have long ago understood....but More powerful just equals more powerful...UNLESS the electronics have been set to pick up a broader frequency response range..... Ex 1000 watt speaker that set to play @80Hz will play Exactly the same Frequencies as a 500 watt speaker.... Inly Diff the 1000 watt speaker will br louder... ***What does more powerful have to do with increased frequency response range***<--- This is My point 2 Motors same electronics even though 1 is more powerful will produce the same feel just 1 will be louder<--- More power will Not increase frequency response range.

GrimeyDog
20-05-2017, 21:36
Since everything will rarely be sync'ed, i'd rather have the wheel wait for commands instead of having the wheel not keep up! :D

Exactly the point of 1000Hz....the banefit of this is clear and self evident--->Unlike the Stronger FFB motor with the same Frequency Response Range... It will just reproduce the same effects at a louder Volume... Thats all it can do... Explain How more power /Bigger Force Curve = Larger Frequency Response Range for Better feel???

Pcars =600Hz Youd May be Suprised what your Missing with the Last 100Hz the v2 missed out on.

Haiden
20-05-2017, 21:51
Exactly the point of 1000Hz....the banefit of this is clear and self evident--->Unlike the Stronger FFB motor with the same Frequency Response Range... It will just reproduce the same effects at a louder Volume... Thats all it can do... Explain How more power /Bigger Force Curve = Larger Frequency Response Range for Better feel???

It's about tactile sense. You're focusing on the digital, without considering he human interface. Simple version: If a wheel has a force curve with a 10 increment scale. A force change of 30 percent will mean your wheel slides 3 increments down/up the scale. Now, if your wheel is three times stronger, that same 30 percent change will be a 9 increment slide on the curve. So, which do you think will be the easiest to detect in terms of feel? Obviously, the nine increment slide. That's what the additional force range gives you. Why is this so hard a concept to understand?

GrimeyDog
20-05-2017, 22:01
It's about tactile sense. You're focusing on the digital, without considering he human interface. Simple version: If a wheel has a force curve with a 10 increment scale. A force change of 30 percent will mean your wheel slides 3 increments down/up the scale. Now, if your wheel is three times stronger, that same 30 percent change will be a 9 increment slide on the curve. So, which do you think will be the easiest to detect in terms of feel? Obviously, the nine increment slide. That's what the additional force range gives you. Why is this so hard a concept to understand?

While this summation reads and sounds good it is False.

The wheel with more Power will just add More power for every increnent of Movement----> More Power Has Nothing to do with increased Frequency Respnse Range<--Nothing hard to understand about this... They both will have the same Dynamic Range Because they Both share/Limted to the same Frequency Response Range---End Result---> The Larger Motor will just add More power for every incrament of Movement Very Simple

morpwr
20-05-2017, 23:17
While this summation reads and sounds good it is False.

The wheel with more Power will just add More power for every increnent of Movement----> More Power Has Nothing to do with increased Frequency Respnse Range<--Nothing hard to understand about this... They both will have the same Dynamic Range Because they Both share/Limted to the same Frequency Response Range---End Result---> The Larger Motor will just add More power for every incrament of Movement Very Simple

It is absolutely true. You think the hz has something to do with how big the range of forces you can feel is. It has nothing to do with that. Only that you don't miss them. Hz is time not power. The strength of the motor has to do with how big your range of forces is and not because of the sense how hard is the wheel to turn. I give up.:rolleyes:

morpwr
20-05-2017, 23:28
This is have long ago understood....but More powerful just equals more powerful...UNLESS the electronics have been set to pick up a broader frequency response range..... Ex 1000 watt speaker that set to play @80Hz will play Exactly the same Frequencies as a 500 watt speaker.... Inly Diff the 1000 watt speaker will br louder... ***What does more powerful have to do with increased frequency response range***<--- This is My point 2 Motors same electronics even though 1 is more powerful will produce the same feel just 1 will be louder<--- More power will Not increase frequency response range.

What are you talking about? 2 speakers of any wattage supplied with the same power will be exactly the same volume as long as they can handle the wattage supplied. The only thing the 1000watt speaker will do is let you supply it with 1000 watts while the 500 watt speaker would fail if you did that. Now I understand why you don't get it. Just because a speaker can handle more watts doesn't make it louder at the same volume.

Haiden
21-05-2017, 00:00
What are you talking about? 2 speakers of any wattage supplied with the same power will be exactly the same volume as long as they can handle the wattage supplied. The only thing the 1000watt speaker will do is let you supply it with 1000 watts while the 500 watt speaker would fail if you did that. Now I understand why you don't get it. Just because a speaker can handle more watts doesn't make it louder at the same volume.

And since the 1000 watt has the capacity, the sound will be clearer. Kind of like the fidelity of the FFB with a stronger motor.

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 00:24
What are you talking about? 2 speakers of any wattage supplied with the same power will be exactly the same volume as long as they can handle the wattage supplied. The only thing the 1000watt speaker will do is let you supply it with 1000 watts while the 500 watt speaker would fail if you did that. Now I understand why you don't get it. Just because a speaker can handle more watts doesn't make it louder at the same volume.

Im Not Mixing Hz with Frequency response---> but this what you said is Exactly what i been saying... Both Motors will produce the Same FFB but the Stronger 1will just be stronger.... In order for the stronger Motor to produce better effects even with a stronger Force curve it will have to be set for Enhanced/Broader range of Frequency pick up/out put which is Not a Default result of having a stronger motor.

Just like a Truck 5.0 motor and a 5.0 Car motor will be Different... Yes you can swap them and both will Run fine but they will Not perform Identical in different applications.... The Truck Motor will be set for More Low End torque.. In Short this is what im saying the FFB Motors have to be set to produce Different torque curves which is Not a Default action of just swapping out a weaker Motor for a Stronger 1.

morpwr
21-05-2017, 00:45
Im Not Mixing Hz with Frequency response---> but this what you said is Exactly what i been saying... Both Motors will produce the Same FFB but the Stronger 1will just be stronger.... In order for the stronger Motor to produce better effects even with a stronger Force curve it will have to be set for Enhanced/Broader range of Frequency pick up/out put which is Not a Default result of having a stronger motor.

Ive never said the ffb would be the same because the stronger motor will ALWAYS have better ffb and no it wont just be stronger. You are still thinking the hz for refresh rate has something to do with what you feel. Other then not missing things that's all it does for you. Frequency is still time. The higher 1000hz in the v2.5 does nothing more then miss less things happening. It doesn't change anything in the ffb only allows you to feel more of it as it happens. At this point with most games being less then 500hz a 13nm wheel at 500hz would still feel noticeably better then your v2.5.

morpwr
21-05-2017, 00:55
Im Not Mixing Hz with Frequency response---> but this what you said is Exactly what i been saying... Both Motors will produce the Same FFB but the Stronger 1will just be stronger.... In order for the stronger Motor to produce better effects even with a stronger Force curve it will have to be set for Enhanced/Broader range of Frequency pick up/out put which is Not a Default result of having a stronger motor.

Just like a Truck 5.0 motor and a 5.0 Car motor will be Different... Yes you can swap them and both will Run fine but they will Not perform Identical in different applications.... The Truck Motor will be set for More Low End torque.. In Short this is what im saying the FFB Motors have to be set to produce Different torque curves which is Not a Default action of just swapping out a weaker Motor for a Stronger 1.

Thats false too. Everybody thinks the truck motors are built for torque. They aren't anymore maybe back in the old days(years ago like 30 or more). Car and truck motors for years have had almost identical torque curves. Torque moves you so why would they want less? Usually the only reason the motors look different especially the intakes is for packaging.

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 00:58
It is absolutely true. You think the hz has something to do with how big the range of forces you can feel is. It has nothing to do with that. Only that you don't miss them. Hz is time not power. The strength of the motor has to do with how big your range of forces is and not because of the sense how hard is the wheel to turn. I give up.:rolleyes:

Yes exactly Hz has Nothing to do with Range of Forces.... Adding a Stronger Motor has Nothing to do with better FFB Frequency response range either...There are other Factors involved also... its Not just add a bigger Motor and get better FFB.

morpwr
21-05-2017, 00:59
Yes exactly Hz has Nothing to do with Range of Forces.... Adding a Stronger Motor has Nothing to do with better FFB Frequency response range either...There are other Factors involved also... its Not just add a bigger Motor and get better FFB.

Ok your right.

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 01:06
Thats false too. Everybody thinks the truck motors are built for torque. They aren't anymore maybe back in the old days(years ago like 30 or more). Car and truck motors for years have had almost identical torque curves. Torque moves you so why would they want less? Usually the only reason the motors look different especially the intakes is for packaging.

Key words "Almost Identical"<--- still Not the same. yes the Torque curve moves Trucks need more low end torque to move weight from a standing stop--> cars use more mid end to keep them accelerating.

morpwr
21-05-2017, 01:12
Key words "Almost Identical"<--- still Not the same. yes the Torque curve moves Trucks need more low end torque to move weight from a standing stop--> cars use more mid end to keep them accelerating.

Dude google it all ls motors of similar hp are almost identical regardless of if it came out of a truck or car or even fwd car. The difference is so small youd never be able to notice it. What youre saying may have been true 30 plus years ago.

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 01:21
Ive never said the ffb would be the same because the stronger motor will ALWAYS have better ffb and no it wont just be stronger. You are still thinking the hz for refresh rate has something to do with what you feel. Other then not missing things that's all it does for you. Frequency is still time. The higher 1000hz in the v2.5 does nothing more then miss less things happening. It doesn't change anything in the ffb only allows you to feel more of it as it happens. At this point with most games being less then 500hz a 13nm wheel at 500hz would still feel noticeably better then your v2.5.

Maybe maybe Not---> i know the FFB between the v2 & 2.5 is Night and Day--->They are the same total power 8Nm but the v2.5 allows Much more FFB to come thru because the lack of drag in the wheel center....DD wheels don't have center of wheel drag so i really dunno anything more than it would be stronger i never used one before---> as long as both wheels can process the same amount of FFB info the the FFB effects would obviously be stronger on the more powerful wheel but stronger does not mean more detailed or higher FFB fidelity---> So again the question is how Much power is too Much once you have a wheel that's already too strong for you to use at 100%???

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 01:25
Dude google it all ls motors of similar hp are almost identical regardless of if it came out of a truck or car or even fwd car. The difference is so small youd never be able to notice it. What youre saying may have been true 30 plus years ago.

There it goes again "Almost identical" if i almost hit lotto i still lose---> its still different.

morpwr
21-05-2017, 01:27
Maybe maybe Not---> i know the FFB between the v2 & 2.5 is Night and Day--->They are the same total power 8Nm but the v2.5 allows Much more FFB to come thru because the lack of drag in the wheel center....DD wheels don't have center of wheel drag so i really dunno anything more than it would be stronger i never used one before---> as long as both wheels can process the same amount of FFB info the the FFB effects would obviously be stronger on the more powerful wheel but stronger does not mean more detailed or higher FFB fidelity---> So again the question is how Much power is too Much once you have a wheel that's already too strong for you to use at 100%???

I don't know what else to say to make you understand. Why do you think guys are buying 30nm motors? Because the 20nm is too easy to turn for them?Like you said we couldn't drive ours maxed out. More nm means bigger range and yes more fidelity. There is no question here.

morpwr
21-05-2017, 01:32
There it goes again "Almost identical" if i almost hit lotto i still lose---> its still different.

Your twisting it. I said almost because it isn't exactly the same which has nothing to do with car or truck but more airbox,exhaust designs things like that. When I say almost I mean like less then 10 ft lbs one way or the other which is nothing and in some cases the cars may have been better then the trucks. Nobody builds low torque motors anymore that's why we have variable valve timing,good mileage and 400hp truck motors.

Haiden
21-05-2017, 01:54
I don't know what else to say to make you understand. Why do you think guys are buying 30nm motors? Because the 20nm is too easy to turn for them?Like you said we couldn't drive ours maxed out. More nm means bigger range and yes more fidelity. There is no question here.

Right!? Essentially, this is a debate as to whether professional grade hardware makers are wasting their time and don't know what they're doing putting 20+ NM motors in their hardware. Like anyone here knows more than product engineers.

This is a pointless/silly debate.

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 04:14
I don't know what else to say to make you understand. Why do you think guys are buying 30nm motors? Because the 20nm is too easy to turn for them?Like you said we couldn't drive ours maxed out. More nm means bigger range and yes more fidelity. There is no question here.


Right!? Essentially, this is a debate as to whether professional grade hardware makers are wasting their time and don't know what they're doing putting 20+ NM motors in their hardware. Like anyone here knows more than product engineers.

This is a pointless/silly debate.

No debate at all...Im just stating my opinion...I just don't see how increased power Leads to increased FFB fidelity without making other changes to hardware/software/ FFB motor electronics to expand FFB Frequency response range...

I just agree to Disagree simple.

Professional people use Stronger Motors because they Not only want to replicate the FFB feel of the car they want the Real Feel of the steering wheel weight under weight transfer and G Forces that weaker motors cant produce that type of power.

And you are right No one here knows better than the Product engineers.

poirqc
21-05-2017, 11:54
You 3 sounds like 3 old women nagging! :D

Max Torque:
Frequency response:
Encoder resolution:
minimum torque movement:
deadzone:

All those are tied, yet you only pick them apart and nag each other with blank scenarios.

Still, i must confess you 3 are entertaining to read! :D

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 12:57
You 3 sounds like 3 old women nagging! :D

Max Torque:
Frequency response:
Encoder resolution:
minimum torque movement:
deadzone:

All those are tied, yet you only pick them apart and nag each other with blank scenarios.

Still, i must confess you 3 are entertaining to read! :D

LOL!!! I agree Exactly:p :o ;)

morpwr
21-05-2017, 14:41
I give up.lol

Haiden
21-05-2017, 15:43
I give up.lol

It's really not worth the energy or time. No one said they were independent forces. In fact, their interdependence was already mentioned. Neither Morpwr or myself was saying one was the holy grail. We were saying refresh rate was not the holy grail, and that, alone, it only provides better FFB when the game's rate allows it. Something not many games currently do, which makes it moot in most cases.

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 16:34
It's really not worth the energy or time. No one said they were independent forces. In fact, their interdependence was already mentioned. Neither Morpwr or myself was saying one was the holy grail. We were saying refresh rate was not the holy grail, and that, alone, it only provides better FFB when the game's rate allows it. Something not many games currently do, which makes it moot in most cases.

I was Not talking about refresh rates... Read what i wrote again... I just dont see how a Stronger FFB motor equals better FFB Dynamic Range is what i said...It cant be just that simple.... If that would be the case then we would all just put stronger FFB motors in our wheels.

Nothing to fret or Stress about just simple Discussion every 1 is free to have their own point of view...

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 19:27
On a Brighter Note... I gave the Man toy a Summer time make over!!! Bunny Got New Shoe's:o

GrimeyDog
21-05-2017, 19:31
Beauty and the Beast:cool:

Haiden
21-05-2017, 23:49
I was Not talking about refresh rates... Read what i wrote again... I just dont see how a Stronger FFB motor equals better FFB Dynamic Range is what i said...It cant be just that simple.... If that would be the case then we would all just put stronger FFB motors in our wheels.

Nothing to fret or Stress about just simple Discussion every 1 is free to have their own point of view...

It's just one of the things that can improve FFB
That's all. Why does it have to be a holy grail singular thing? Lots of things influence FFB.

morpwr
22-05-2017, 00:09
I was Not talking about refresh rates... Read what i wrote again... I just dont see how a Stronger FFB motor equals better FFB Dynamic Range is what i said...It cant be just that simple.... If that would be the case then we would all just put stronger FFB motors in our wheels.

Nothing to fret or Stress about just simple Discussion every 1 is free to have their own point of view...

If it was that easy yes but things like power supplies make it hard to just swap motors. Plus it has to fit in the space provided. Sure other things influence it but all you have to do is look at what all wheels have in common as they get better. Stronger motors. Probably one of the reasons the v2 is still preferred over the pcracer. V2 is slightly stronger and just like the reviews stated it feels a little better. I'm not saying firmware,refresh rate don't make a difference but a stronger motor will definitely improve the range of forces . I'm done now.:)

GrimeyDog
22-05-2017, 10:09
It's just one of the things that can improve FFB
That's all. Why does it have to be a holy grail singular thing? Lots of things influence FFB.


If it was that easy yes but things like power supplies make it hard to just swap motors. Plus it has to fit in the space provided. Sure other things influence it but all you have to do is look at what all wheels have in common as they get better. Stronger motors. Probably one of the reasons the v2 is still preferred over the pcracer. V2 is slightly stronger and just like the reviews stated it feels a little better. I'm not saying firmware,refresh rate don't make a difference but a stronger motor will definitely improve the range of forces . I'm done now.:)

Exactly what i have been saying... Re Read My Post...Adding 1 thing without upgrading other things wont make a Big Diff.

Wheels have Gotten more powerful...The v2.5 is New Electronics and New FFB Motor.... its Not like Fanatec just added 1000Hz and thats that.... The PC racer im sure has New Electronics, New Motor.... For sure we know the power supply has been updated and optimized.... I couldnt find the refresh rate on it but its more than likely Higher than the T300/TX458.
Also the Drivers and FW have gotten Much better as the Wheel electronics have been upgraded the wheels are able to process more info... This was and is My point-->You just cant add a bigger motor and Change Nothing else and expect Expanded FFB Dynamic Range<---this is what i been saying all along;)

each one of us Has a Relevant point but No 1 point is more Relevant than the other because they are all Codependent on other points.

Haiden
24-05-2017, 14:24
I had that happen with the ffb app after an update too so keep that in mind.lol I'm still working on beating the alien races in the challenges and the fastest laptimes. Its actually a lot of fun driving different stuff and some of the challenges are tough. From what I read the changes to the ai are really good. I'm in the same boat ive got a thing at the kids school tomorrow night so I'm not sure ill have a chance to try it out tomorrow.Im sure going to try though.:)


You have to try the new cars in ac.:) I only got to try the audi tt cars and the McLaren but they where awesome!!

I really hope all the game manufacturers take advantage of that. Id buy another 1080 in a heartbeat.

Only got a few races in last night, but it's a definite improvement. Moves that used to choke off the AI going into tight corners no longer work. They hold their line extremely well now. I set the AI to 95, variance to 5%, and aggression to 50%, then started a 10 lap race from back of the grid. I've done that many times, but this time, it took a lot more work and patience to make my way through the grid. They aren't nearly as predictable as before. The craziest surprise came when was coming up on P2, looking for a gap. Turned out, P2 actually had better pace than P1, but must have been trying to get around. With 3 or 4 laps left, I thought I was going to easily take them both, but then P2 took the lead, and then pulled away opening a huge gap while I worked to get around P2. That totally changed the last few laps and kept it competitive until the very end. :)

Gonna play around more today--don't go back to work until tomorrow :) If it's as good as it seemed last night, I probably won't be firing up any other sim for a long time, possibly not until September. :) The new cars are all great. The Maserati is insanely fun with that sequential shift--great handling car.

morpwr
24-05-2017, 15:32
Only got a few races in last night, but it's a definite improvement. Moves that used to choke off the AI going into tight corners no longer work. They hold their line extremely well now. I set the AI to 95, variance to 5%, and aggression to 50%, then started a 10 lap race from back of the grid. I've done that many times, but this time, it took a lot more work and patience to make my way through the grid. They aren't nearly as predictable as before. The craziest surprise came when was coming up on P2, looking for a gap. Turned out, P2 actually had better pace than P1, but must have been trying to get around. With 3 or 4 laps left, I thought I was going to easily take them both, but then P2 took the lead, and then pulled away opening a huge gap while I worked to get around P2. That totally changed the last few laps and kept it competitive until the very end. :)

Gonna play around more today--don't go back to work until tomorrow :) If it's as good as it seemed last night, I probably won't be firing up any other sim for a long time, possibly not until September. :) The new cars are all great. The Maserati is insanely fun with that sequential shift--great handling car.


Ive been having a blast with it. Its really close to driving with real people. Close enough anyways. That car shocked me. I really didn't think I was going to like it all but once I got a feel for it man was it fun. Really starting to enjoy the lmp cars though. Its so hard believing its going to stick going that fast into corners but it does. Kind of like the open wheels you just have to trust it.

poirqc
24-05-2017, 17:12
Only got a few races in last night, but it's a definite improvement. Moves that used to choke off the AI going into tight corners no longer work. They hold their line extremely well now. I set the AI to 95, variance to 5%, and aggression to 50%, then started a 10 lap race from back of the grid. I've done that many times, but this time, it took a lot more work and patience to make my way through the grid. They aren't nearly as predictable as before. The craziest surprise came when was coming up on P2, looking for a gap. Turned out, P2 actually had better pace than P1, but must have been trying to get around. With 3 or 4 laps left, I thought I was going to easily take them both, but then P2 took the lead, and then pulled away opening a huge gap while I worked to get around P2. That totally changed the last few laps and kept it competitive until the very end. :)

Gonna play around more today--don't go back to work until tomorrow :) If it's as good as it seemed last night, I probably won't be firing up any other sim for a long time, possibly not until September. :) The new cars are all great. The Maserati is insanely fun with that sequential shift--great handling car.


Ive been having a blast with it. Its really close to driving with real people. Close enough anyways. That car shocked me. I really didn't think I was going to like it all but once I got a feel for it man was it fun. Really starting to enjoy the lmp cars though. Its so hard believing its going to stick going that fast into corners but it does. Kind of like the open wheels you just have to trust it.

I don't know what i did wrong, but i tried the new AI on Monza, with the Porshe RSR 3.0 and some road cars. It was either stack fest or ram fest on T1.

I'll try your 95 5 50 receipe tonigh.

Haiden
24-05-2017, 18:12
Ive been having a blast with it. Its really close to driving with real people. Close enough anyways. That car shocked me. I really didn't think I was going to like it all but once I got a feel for it man was it fun. Really starting to enjoy the lmp cars though. Its so hard believing its going to stick going that fast into corners but it does. Kind of like the open wheels you just have to trust it.

Same. There's enough variance in their behavior to make it fun. I've seen the AI lose it a few times, making a very human-like error, and then accidentally take out another car while trying to correct it's spin. I didn't expect the Maserati to be so much fun either.

Haiden
24-05-2017, 18:38
I don't know what i did wrong, but i tried the new AI on Monza, with the Porshe RSR 3.0 and some road cars. It was either stack fest or ram fest on T1.

I'll try your 95 5 50 receipe tonigh.

IDK... I just started playing with it. But I would think, the higher the aggression level, the less cars you want on the grid. I think I had 16 last night. I could see a highly aggressive grid with low variance getting into T1 trouble at Monza, though.

morpwr
24-05-2017, 18:58
I don't know what i did wrong, but i tried the new AI on Monza, with the Porshe RSR 3.0 and some road cars. It was either stack fest or ram fest on T1.

I'll try your 95 5 50 receipe tonigh.


If you set the aggression high it will be a wreck fest. 50 seemed to work pretty well and from what I got slower cars maybe able to be set a little higher. One thing I figured out right away though is on the starts especially if you have it set high you can almost guarantee getting wrecked if you try to do a start like before and pass 3-4 cars before the first corner. The ai don't like it.lol

morpwr
24-05-2017, 19:59
Same. There's enough variance in their behavior to make it fun. I've seen the AI lose it a few times, making a very human-like error, and then accidentally take out another car while trying to correct it's spin. I didn't expect the Maserati to be so much fun either.

I actually had the ai take me 3 wide through 2 set of corners. I was just waiting for the big one and hoping I didn't screw up and turn it in to bumper cars. It all turned out just fine though. I have to say I was pretty impressed with the ai. I couldn't believe the car on the inside took it on the first corner but I did leave him room because I was trying to keep my speed up with the at I knew was up to my door on the outside. So nobody did anything wrong but it was some tight racing for a few corners.:cool:

poirqc
25-05-2017, 00:13
IDK... I just started playing with it. But I would think, the higher the aggression level, the less cars you want on the grid. I think I had 16 last night. I could see a highly aggressive grid with low variance getting into T1 trouble at Monza, though.


If you set the aggression high it will be a wreck fest. 50 seemed to work pretty well and from what I got slower cars maybe able to be set a little higher. One thing I figured out right away though is on the starts especially if you have it set high you can almost guarantee getting wrecked if you try to do a start like before and pass 3-4 cars before the first corner. The ai don't like it.lol

Tried the 95 5 50 formula. It's alot better. I also lowered the AI number.

Thanks for the tip guys!

Now, if keybindings would work now...

morpwr
25-05-2017, 10:47
Tried the 95 5 50 formula. It's alot better. I also lowered the AI number.

Thanks for the tip guys!

Now, if keybindings would work now...


I don't know how many ai you normally run but I haven't had any issues with 20 at least on the car/track combinations I tried so far. What do you mean if the keybindings would work?

Haiden
25-05-2017, 11:16
Tried the 95 5 50 formula. It's alot better. I also lowered the AI number.

Thanks for the tip guys!

Now, if keybindings would work now...

I tried 95, 5, 75 last night. It was fine with the GT3/GT2 class, but didn't work so well for F1 style cars, so I lowered it back to 50. It could have been a mod issue, though. I was driving a Kunos built F1 car, but had cars from a F1 2015 mod on the grid.

Which bindings aren't working for you?

poirqc
25-05-2017, 12:06
I don't know how many ai you normally run but I haven't had any issues with 20 at least on the car/track combinations I tried so far. What do you mean if the keybindings would work?


I tried AI with the kunos cars/track. I tried the merc sls, a ferrari(?) and the Porshe RSR 70' something.


I tried 95, 5, 75 last night. It was fine with the GT3/GT2 class, but didn't work so well for F1 style cars, so I lowered it back to 50. It could have been a mod issue, though. I was driving a Kunos built F1 car, but had cars from a F1 2015 mod on the grid.

Which bindings aren't working for you?

The regular stuff. Look behind, left and right. The regular stuff. In the control config, they're recognised. If i press them, i see them flash. After, i bind them successfully. But when i'm in a session, they don't work. I can't look behind, left or right. I'm using the cockpit view.

It's not a big deal. I just figure what's in space around me! :)

morpwr
25-05-2017, 12:34
I tried 95, 5, 75 last night. It was fine with the GT3/GT2 class, but didn't work so well for F1 style cars, so I lowered it back to 50. It could have been a mod issue, though. I was driving a Kunos built F1 car, but had cars from a F1 2015 mod on the grid.

Which bindings aren't working for you?


They said that's probably what you would find. Faster cars will need the lower level while slower cars may allow for a higher one. I think they recommended around 60ish.

Haiden
25-05-2017, 13:47
I tried AI with the kunos cars/track. I tried the merc sls, a ferrari(?) and the Porshe RSR 70' something.



The regular stuff. Look behind, left and right. The regular stuff. In the control config, they're recognised. If i press them, i see them flash. After, i bind them successfully. But when i'm in a session, they don't work. I can't look behind, left or right. I'm using the cockpit view.

It's not a big deal. I just figure what's in space around me! :)

Huh... I'll have to check mine. I assumed the left, right, back looks weren't working because I was in VR mode. Haven't played on a regular screen since I got the Rift. And , now that I think about it, I don't really use my old mappings anymore. But last night, I somehow changed the camera view with a stray mouse click, and then had to quit the session, because I couldn't change camera view. At first, I thought I just forgot which button I mapped it to. But when I remapped it, it was already set to that button. Wonder if they screwed something up in one of the updates.

Edit: actually, I take that back. My DRS and KERS mappings still work, and the shifter buttons are mapped through the wheel base.

poirqc
25-05-2017, 15:01
Huh... I'll have to check mine. I assumed the left, right, back looks weren't working because I was in VR mode. Haven't played on a regular screen since I got the Rift. And , now that I think about it, I don't really use my old mappings anymore. But last night, I somehow changed the camera view with a stray mouse click, and then had to quit the session, because I couldn't change camera view. At first, I thought I just forgot which button I mapped it to. But when I remapped it, it was already set to that button. Wonder if they screwed something up in one of the updates.

Edit: actually, I take that back. My DRS and KERS mappings still work, and the shifter buttons are mapped through the wheel base.

I would guess most mapping works. I don't have any issue with actual driving inputs. With family matters, i have about 30 min to 60 mins to race, if i'm lucky. I'll just leave it at that for now!

Thanks for your help guys.

Haiden
25-05-2017, 16:31
They said that's probably what you would find. Faster cars will need the lower level while slower cars may allow for a higher one. I think they recommended around 60ish.

Dude...the F1 race I had last night was the craziest, most intense single player race I've ever had. It was only six laps at Spa. I qualified 5th, lost position, gained positioned multiple times, then finally finished 4th. As soon as I crossed the finish line and got transported back to the pits, I snatched the headset off, and was like, "Holy mother f'ing sh@... That was amazing!" I even had my seat positioned in a way that complimented the cramped feel of the cockpit, and everything in RL was so close to the VR positioning, that my brain couldn't tell the difference. It the most realistic VR experience I've had so far. My only real challenge now is figuring out which class to focus on for the next week or two.

Also... have you tried rF2 since the initial update? I know they've been releasing fixes and content updates regularly. But I haven't tried it since the big DX11 push.

vegaguy5555
25-05-2017, 17:48
I have been playing around with rF2's DX11 VR. It's hit and miss so far. In a few months it should be a thing of beauty I'm sure.

I have been a AC only die hard for years unit jack spades FFB settings. Now I figured out how to set clipping. I never knew pcars had all this rich FFB. Most responsive physics.

Ya... I've been popular in AC's forum latey.

morpwr
25-05-2017, 19:03
Dude...the F1 race I had last night was the craziest, most intense single player race I've ever had. It was only six laps at Spa. I qualified 5th, lost position, gained positioned multiple times, then finally finished 4th. As soon as I crossed the finish line and got transported back to the pits, I snatched the headset off, and was like, "Holy mother f'ing sh@... That was amazing!" I even had my seat positioned in a way that complimented the cramped feel of the cockpit, and everything in RL was so close to the VR positioning, that my brain couldn't tell the difference. It the most realistic VR experience I've had so far. My only real challenge now is figuring out which class to focus on for the next week or two.

Also... have you tried rF2 since the initial update? I know they've been releasing fixes and content updates regularly. But I haven't tried it since the big DX11 push.


There have been a lot of updates since I tried the first one and wasn't overly impressed so its hard to say at this point. Ive been meaning to try it again but ac has been so good its hard to pull myself away.lol


I think that's one of the reasons I like the open wheels and lmps so much in vr it really feels like youre crammed in the car. Especially the open wheels where it feels like youre sitting really low.

morpwr
25-05-2017, 19:05
I have been playing around with rF2's DX11 VR. It's hit and miss so far. In a few months it should be a thing of beauty I'm sure.

I have been a AC only die hard for years unit jack spades FFB settings. Now I figured out how to set clipping. I never knew pcars had all this rich FFB. Most responsive physics.

Ya... I've been popular in AC's forum latey.


Pcars is really good just a different approach. If its as good as they say in pcars 2 it should put it right up with any of the top sims.

Roger Prynne
25-05-2017, 19:52
Pcars is really good just a different approach. If its as good as they say in pcars 2 it should put it right up with any of the top sims.

It certainly will I can assure you.... and that's not me being biased.

morpwr
25-05-2017, 21:53
It certainly will I can assure you.... and that's not me being biased.


I really hope so because pcars is what got me back into it again in a big way. :):):):) I'm dying to get an actual release date.

morpwr
26-05-2017, 10:58
I tried 95, 5, 75 last night. It was fine with the GT3/GT2 class, but didn't work so well for F1 style cars, so I lowered it back to 50. It could have been a mod issue, though. I was driving a Kunos built F1 car, but had cars from a F1 2015 mod on the grid.

Which bindings aren't working for you?

I tried a mod track(the one in poland) last night with 21 gt3 cars and that seemed to work just as good. I started mid pack and went backwards because I didn't know the track but worked my way back to mid pack by the end. It wasn't anywhere as easy as it used to be though. I had a few cars that kept passing me back and fought me the whole way to get the spot. Id get the spot and 2 corners later they are back on the side of me again(but totally clean move) in a corner fighting to get the spot back. Even the first lap was really intense. A lot of shuffling to grab a spot on every corner but without any incidents. Thing that amazed me and I'm not sure about it yet but I think the ai just like us push harder as the laps wind down. They actually made contact and went off fighting for position in front of me.Whatever kunos did everyone should follow because it works really well and makes for some great offline racing.

Haiden
26-05-2017, 13:45
I tried a mod track(the one in poland) last night with 21 gt3 cars and that seemed to work just as good. I started mid pack and went backwards because I didn't know the track but worked my way back to mid pack by the end. It wasn't anywhere as easy as it used to be though. I had a few cars that kept passing me back and fought me the whole way to get the spot. Id get the spot and 2 corners later they are back on the side of me again(but totally clean move) in a corner fighting to get the spot back. Even the first lap was really intense. A lot of shuffling to grab a spot on every corner but without any incidents. Thing that amazed me and I'm not sure about it yet but I think the ai just like us push harder as the laps wind down. They actually made contact and went off fighting for position in front of me.Whatever kunos did everyone should follow because it works really well and makes for some great offline racing.

I need to try some of the old mod tracks. There were a few that I downloaded because I love the track, but ended up only being able to hotlap on them, because the AI had trouble navigating the track. Wonder if this AI tweak improves or fixes that.

Absolutely, I'm still only a day or two into it, but so far, this is the best AI I've ever raced against. The variance slider is great, forces you to do a little reconnaissance, learning the car ahead's behavior before trying to overtake, especially in tricky areas. And their pace and skill vary, too. I've had more sudden reaction saves--aborting an overtake or being forced to back off abruptly and run offline or offtrack, because the AI simply didn't do what I was expecting him to do. Not in a crazy unrealistic way, just very human-like driving behavior. It's great. Definitely my new go-to sim. All they need now is more Kunos built tracks. Kunos might seem slow moving sometimes, but their attention to detail is outstanding (at least on the PC side). I'm having the best open wheel races I've ever had. Can't wait to try the classics. :)

Haiden
26-05-2017, 14:07
Haiden I'm curious as to what your FFB settings are in assetto corsa, mind sharing?

Been loving the changes in AC. I read up a bit on AC FFB while traveling and had some ideas. So, last night I tried something...

I set the @wheel Dri to 3 and turned the Damper (Dpr) OFF. I swear, it felt like a different wheel--way more responsive and WAY more subtle slip feel in corners. After that, I started from scratch in-game. I left the gain at 100 and set everything else to 0. I ended up with these settings at the end of the night.

Gain = 100
Kerbs = 2%
Road = 5%
Slip = 3%

With the DRI and Damper change, that's all the effect I needed. Road was basically just because I like a little texture. Slip was weird. When set to 0, the wheel felt very rubbery smooth and definitely had the best subtle slip feel, but it seemed to come at the cost of firmness and felt a little unrealistic to me. Adding a little slip, made the wheel tighter on the straights and low speed corners, while maintaining a high degree of subtly. For me, 5% seemed to be the point of diminishing returns, where I started losing the subtle slip feel of the tires. Kerb effect wasn't need at all. I just added a little to try, but will probably set that back to 0. Without it, flat curbs don't have much feel in lower end wheels. But I was feeling them just fine on the V2 in realistic way. They don't have texture or vibration, but I could definitely feel when my tired crossed from tarmac to kerb and the change in traction. That along with the accompanying sound was more than enough for me. Adding Kerb effect makes the flat kerbs feel more textured. I prefer they feel smooth, so I know which ones I can steal from and which ones I should avoid.

Anyway, I'm going to do a little more tweaking today, but if it feels as good as it did last night when I come back to it today, I doubt I'll be making too many additional changes. Also, I was using the Ferrari F138 to tune, and then did a few laps in the new Audi R8. It felt good in both.

morpwr
26-05-2017, 14:19
Been loving the changes in AC. I read up a bit on AC FFB while traveling and had some ideas. So, last night I tried something...

I set the @wheel Dri to 3 and turned the Damper (Dpr) OFF. I swear, it felt like a different wheel--way more responsive and WAY more subtle slip feel in corners. After that, I started from scratch in-game. I left the gain at 100 and set everything else to 0. I ended up with these settings at the end of the night.

Gain = 100
Kerbs = 2%
Road = 5%
Slip = 3%

With the DRI and Damper change, that's all the effect I needed. Road was basically just because I like a little texture. Slip was weird. When set to 0, the wheel felt very rubbery smooth and definitely had the best subtle slip feel, but it seemed to come at the cost of firmness and felt a little unrealistic to me. Adding a little slip, made the wheel tighter on the straights and low speed corners, while maintaining a high degree of subtly. For me, 5% seemed to be the point of diminishing returns, where I started losing the subtle slip feel of the tires. Kerb effect wasn't need at all. I just added a little to try, but will probably set that back to 0. Without it, flat curbs don't have much feel in lower end wheels. But I was feeling them just fine on the V2 in realistic way. They don't have texture or vibration, but I could definitely feel when my tired crossed from tarmac to kerb and the change in traction. That along with the accompanying sound was more than enough for me. Adding Kerb effect makes the flat kerbs feel more textured. I prefer they feel smooth, so I know which ones I can steal from and which ones I should avoid.

Anyway, I'm going to do a little more tweaking today, but if it feels as good as it did last night when I come back to it today, I doubt I'll be making too many additional changes. Also, I was using the Ferrari F138 to tune, and then did a few laps in the new Audi R8. It felt good in both.



Have you played with the gamma setting for the ffb in the ini file? It makes a big difference in the weight of the wheel when cornering. If you turn it up it wont get so heavy especially in high load corners. It still gains weight just not to the point of feeling exaggerated.

Haiden
26-05-2017, 15:05
Have you played with the gamma setting for the ffb in the ini file? It makes a big difference in the weight of the wheel when cornering. If you turn it up it wont get so heavy especially in high load corners. It still gains weight just not to the point of feeling exaggerated.

No. I haven't had any issues with cornering weight. I have the FFB clip set to Light, so it's recommendations usually are below the clipping line, plus I knock off another 5-10, depending on how the car. I control wheel weight with the @wheel FF setting. If it's too heavy, I can dial it down there. My understanding of Gamma is it slows things down by altering the curve/scale of what it's controlling and making the response less linear. With the @wheel FF, I can manage wheel weight without altering the global linearity. I like that approach, because wheel weight changes from car to car. This way, I can turn down the gain for open wheelers to avoid clipping in high-speed corners, but then bring the weight back by raising the @wheel gain.

GrimeyDog
26-05-2017, 15:18
Now after a Few months on PC and Playing Many Different Sims i Really Cant figure out what all the Fuss was/ is about Canned FFB -VS- Supposedly Real Physics calculated from the Steering Rack???IMO all including Pcars has Canned FFB because the Feel is subject to how the programmer determind what things should feel like.... R3E, Assetto Corsa, AMS make No claims of being Pure Car Physics with No Canned effects and they Feel Great!!! ATM i like R3E the Most the Racing is Very intense Frustrating even!!! Adaptive AI is Sooo Dam Fast!!! They Hold their Line to slow you down and Block the Pass!!! I really like it alot... I have to get more time in with AC though.

Haiden
26-05-2017, 15:27
Now after a Few months on PC and Plating Many Different Sims i Really Cant figure out what all the Fuss was about Canned FFB -VS- Supposedly Real Physics calculated from the Steering Rack??? R3E, Assetto Corsa, AMS make No claims of being Pure Car Physics with No Canned effects and they Feel Great!!! ATM i like R3E the Most the Racing is Very intense Frustrating even!!! Adaptive AI is Sooo Dam Fast!!! They Hold their Line to slow you down and Block the Pass!!! I really like it alot... I have to get more time in with AC though.

AC is different now, because of the update. Prior to that. I liked the physics and FFB, but would turn to R3E for racing, because AC's AI was tragically not competitive. But now, AC's AI has given me some of the best races I've ever had. You should really try it. Combined with the physics and FFB, it's my new go-to.

I don't understand the canned vs. pure debate either. When I was console, I assumed it was a worthy debate, but when I switched to PC and tried AC for the first time, I was like... "Uh... and how is this bad?" Now, I actually think the pure approach is too limiting. A mixed approach seems best, because sometimes pure settings are lacking/weak in some areas and adding a little canned effect can help that. PCars claims to be pure, but strangely, it's the FFB I like the least. I still laugh at how much time I spent learning and tweaking the system, compared to how easy other sims are with their 3-5 sliders. Despite their simplicity, I don't find anything lacking in the FFB. Instead, it's more the opposite--much better FFB.

morpwr
26-05-2017, 15:29
No. I haven't had any issues with cornering weight. I have the FFB clip set to Light, so it's recommendations usually are below the clipping line, plus I knock off another 5-10, depending on how the car. I control wheel weight with the @wheel FF setting. If it's too heavy, I can dial it down there. My understanding of Gamma is it slows things down by altering the curve/scale of what it's controlling and making the response less linear. With the @wheel FF, I can manage wheel weight without altering the global linearity. I like that approach, because wheel weight changes from car to car. This way, I can turn down the gain for open wheelers to avoid clipping in high-speed corners, but then bring the weight back by raising the @wheel gain.

I'm not sure the ini file is exactly the same. The one on the menu yes. It seems to me is the one in the ini only effects the stronger forces I haven't really noticed any change in the lower ones. That way you can leave your wheel set higher and just adjust the stronger forces with the ini. I just set that to .85 and let the ffb app do its thing with the standard setting. It seems to work pretty good. Its backwards too if you try it. Default is .50 lower means stronger higher numbers means less force.

Haiden
26-05-2017, 16:06
I'm not sure the ini file is exactly the same. The one on the menu yes. It seems to me is the one in the ini only effects the stronger forces I haven't really noticed any change in the lower ones. That way you can leave your wheel set higher and just adjust the stronger forces with the ini. I just set that to .85 and let the ffb app do its thing with the standard setting. It seems to work pretty good. Its backwards too if you try it. Default is .50 lower means stronger higher numbers means less force.

What's the file name/location?

I'll give a shot. But I think we just take different approaches, because of our hardware. I actually don't want to set my wheel any higher, because I'd lose a lot of flexibility. My only concern is getting the in-game force curve and in-car gain as high as I can without clipping. I run the @wheel gain from 75-100, depending on the car. The @wheel setting allows me to do this on the fly, as needed. GT classes I run @wheel at around 75-85, because they run at lower speeds and don't generate as much cornering load. In those cases, the in-car gain can be set higher and I don't need as much @wheel weight. But in high speed cars that generate a lot of corner load, like F1 cars, the in-car gains are lower, so I often run a higher @wheel, like 85-95. I think if I use the .ini file like you're suggesting, I would end up narrowing my @wheel gain range, because the base value would be higher to compensate for the lost weight. Instead of having a @wheel range of 75-100, it would be narrowed to like 85-100. It does make sense to find a fixed equilibrium with a TM wheel, because you only have the driver control panel for @wheel control. IDK... I'll see what it does, though. :)

GrimeyDog
26-05-2017, 16:08
AC is different now, because of the update. Prior to that. I liked the physics and FFB, but would turn to R3E for racing, because AC's AI was tragically not competitive. But now, AC's AI has given me some of the best races I've ever had. You should really try it. Combined with the physics and FFB, it's my new go-to.

I don't understand the canned vs. pure debate either. When I was console, I assumed it was a worthy debate, but when I switched to PC and tried AC for the first time, I was like... "Uh... and how is this bad?" Now, I actually think the pure approach is too limiting. A mixed approach seems best, because sometimes pure settings are lacking/weak in some areas and adding a little canned effect can help that. PCars claims to be pure, but strangely, it's the FFB I like the least. I still laugh at how much time I spent learning and tweaking the system, compared to how easy other sims are with their 3-5 sliders. Despite their simplicity, I don't find anything lacking in the FFB. Instead, it's more the opposite--much better FFB.

All the Pcars FFB tweeking paid off in a way.... Now all other Games to Tweek the FFB is Very Easy because we learned sooo Much about FFB How it works and How best to tweek it... So all the Pcars FFB tweeking wasn't all a waste of time.

GrimeyDog
26-05-2017, 16:20
If Pcars 2 goes with the Pure Steering Rack FFB approach again then they Need to add in a Slider that allows you to Dial in the amount of Canned FFB Effects that you want Sort of Like the R3E FFB Effects Slider---> the Slip Effect Slider is absolutley Brilliant!!! Pcars1 Really Needs that!!!

morpwr
26-05-2017, 20:23
What's the file name/location?

I'll give a shot. But I think we just take different approaches, because of our hardware. I actually don't want to set my wheel any higher, because I'd lose a lot of flexibility. My only concern is getting the in-game force curve and in-car gain as high as I can without clipping. I run the @wheel gain from 75-100, depending on the car. The @wheel setting allows me to do this on the fly, as needed. GT classes I run @wheel at around 75-85, because they run at lower speeds and don't generate as much cornering load. In those cases, the in-car gain can be set higher and I don't need as much @wheel weight. But in high speed cars that generate a lot of corner load, like F1 cars, the in-car gains are lower, so I often run a higher @wheel, like 85-95. I think if I use the .ini file like you're suggesting, I would end up narrowing my @wheel gain range, because the base value would be higher to compensate for the lost weight. Instead of having a @wheel range of 75-100, it would be narrowed to like 85-100. It does make sense to find a fixed equilibrium with a TM wheel, because you only have the driver control panel for @wheel control. IDK... I'll see what it does, though. :)

I'm not positive now but I'm pretty sure it says ff pp for the file name. Its been a while since I changed it but ill look tonight. You could be right though it might be more useful for non fanatec wheels.

morpwr
26-05-2017, 20:27
If Pcars 2 goes with the Pure Steering Rack FFB approach again then they Need to add in a Slider that allows you to Dial in the amount of Canned FFB Effects that you want Sort of Like the R3E FFB Effects Slider---> the Slip Effect Slider is absolutley Brilliant!!! Pcars1 Really Needs that!!!

Yeah hopefully they learned their lesson with the last ffb settings and made it much simpler for everyone involved.

Roger Prynne
26-05-2017, 20:32
Yeah hopefully they learned their lesson with the last ffb settings and made it much simpler for everyone involved.

They have indeed.

Haiden
26-05-2017, 20:38
I'm not positive now but I'm pretty sure it says ff pp for the file name. Its been a while since I changed it but ill look tonight. You could be right though it might be more useful for non fanatec wheels.


Oh... We've had this conversation before...LOL. It's the FF_Post Processing (or something like that). I've already modified mine. When I created the custom LUT file, it told me to set Gamma to 1.0. Mine's been that way for a long time, and I always forget I made the change. That's why I didn't know what heavy loads you were talking about...LOL

morpwr
26-05-2017, 21:30
Oh... We've had this conversation before...LOL. It's the FF_Post Processing (or something like that). I've already modified mine. When I created the custom LUT file, it told me to set Gamma to 1.0. Mine's been that way for a long time, and I always forget I made the change. That's why I didn't know what heavy loads you were talking about...LOL

That makes sense. I tried that lut file along time ago but it didn't work right for the t300 and I didn't need it for the pcracer. Just set the gamma in that ini and done. Its nice when you haven't touched the settings in so long you forgot what you did.:)

poirqc
27-05-2017, 00:10
There's a thread on RD where a guy explains it(gamma) in details. It's basically like Soft Clipping. The LUT files is also like a combo of Scoops and Deadzone removals.

Playing with the FFB in pCars wasn't a waste of time. It just took couple hundred hours too much! :D

The number of sliders in pCars wasn't the problem. It's he crudeness of them that made it hard. All this choise is a 2 edge sword. You can exactly do what you want. But it's way too easy to lose yourself and make it worse.

In AC, after playing with the FFB to get rid of the G27 rattling, i was able to get a similar feeling to pCars. Both game feels good.

GrimeyDog
27-05-2017, 03:44
Buttkickers are Finally Back in Stock!!! Hurry and Grab 1 or 2 they are going to sell out Fast!!!.... I have 2 and have Been trying to order a back up/Spare for Over a Year and they have been out of Stock!!! 1 of the buttkicker is about 4yrs or older and it acts Funky some time.....But Finally i Got a Email saying they are Back in stock!!! and Still $149.00!!! I looked at the Shell Shock/ Earth Quake and its $400.00 Im Glad i waited it out!

A Two Buttkicker set up is just awsome!!! 1 Plays Left and the other Plays Right audio....I cant even describe it you would just have to feel it for yourself but you can clearly feel the diff between L & R.... also using 2 of them stops you from over Heating Over working 1.... Buttkickers will Get Hot and Shut off!!! But when you use 2x you can keep the Vibration Volume Much Lower and Still have Maximum Feel.


Thry are Gonna sell out Quick so act Now if you can!!! Its Been over 1 year since they were in Stock last!

Haiden
27-05-2017, 15:30
Buttkickers are Finally Back in Stock!!! Hurry and Grab 1 or 2 they are going to sell out Fast!!!.... I have 2 and have Been trying to order a back up/Spare for Over a Year and they have been out of Stock!!! 1 of the buttkicker is about 4yrs or older and it acts Funky some time.....But Finally i Got a Email saying they are Back in stock!!! and Still $149.00!!! I looked at the Shell Shock/ Earth Quake and its $400.00 Im Glad i waited it out!

A Two Buttkicker set up is just awsome!!! 1 Plays Left and the other Plays Right audio....I cant even describe it you would just have to feel it for yourself but you can clearly feel the diff between L & R.... also using 2 of them stops you from over Heating Over working 1.... Buttkickers will Get Hot and Shut off!!! But when you use 2x you can keep the Vibration Volume Much Lower and Still have Maximum Feel.


Thry are Gonna sell out Quick so act Now if you can!!! Its Been over 1 year since they were in Stock last!

Yeah, that took forever. I'm actually glad we moved, because if we hadn't, I would have bought another transducer about two months ago. It's not the one you mentioned, but it was almost $500 for a two transducer setup. Glad that worked out. I just ordered mine. :) Finally!!!

Haiden
27-05-2017, 15:44
That makes sense. I tried that lut file along time ago but it didn't work right for the t300 and I didn't need it for the pcracer. Just set the gamma in that ini and done. Its nice when you haven't touched the settings in so long you forgot what you did.:)

Sure is. :)

The new AI is amazing. Formula 1 racing is the absolute best now. 90 difficulty with 60 aggression at Silverstone was a blast. But last night I tried that 90/60 mix at Nordschleife!!! That was a frantic few laps, only did 2.5, but I was surprised at how well the AI worked on that track. The variance in their behavior made trailing. a car through the tight spots a real challenge. You could play it safe and leave a gap, but you'll have to chew that gap down when you hit the next overtake zone. It's best to stay close, but it's super hard to stay on the car ahead's tail, because you're catching dirty air and have less grip, and you have to be razor focused, because the AI varies and takes corners differently. Those 2.5 laps were just unbelievable. You should try that car/track combo. I having a feel it's going be addictive to me. :)

The thing that surprised me the most was how well you can feel the difference in grip between driving in clean air and dirty air. Sometimes, when there were like 3 cars ahead in a tight chain, I had to back off, because there was no grip in that turbulence. Really good physics model.

morpwr
27-05-2017, 19:00
Sure is. :)

The new AI is amazing. Formula 1 racing is the absolute best now. 90 difficulty with 60 aggression at Silverstone was a blast. But last night I tried that 90/60 mix at Nordschleife!!! That was a frantic few laps, only did 2.5, but I was surprised at how well the AI worked on that track. The variance in their behavior made trailing. a car through the tight spots a real challenge. You could play it safe and leave a gap, but you'll have to chew that gap down when you hit the next overtake zone. It's best to stay close, but it's super hard to stay on the car ahead's tail, because you're catching dirty air and have less grip, and you have to be razor focused, because the AI varies and takes corners differently. Those 2.5 laps were just unbelievable. You should try that car/track combo. I having a feel it's going be addictive to me. :)

The thing that surprised me the most was how well you can feel the difference in grip between driving in clean air and dirty air. Sometimes, when there were like 3 cars ahead in a tight chain, I had to back off, because there was no grip in that turbulence. Really good physics model.


I noticed in the gt cars it not as easy to pass anymore either. I don't know if the dirty air has anything to do with it but like you said you cant ride on a cars bumper like you used to and always get away with it. You really need to watch the car in front and plan the move more like you would a real person. I tried another mod track last night with the 2017 Porsche cup cars and the ai seemed to work just fine there too. I'm not a huge fan of the Nordschleife but Ill have to give those a shot. It just takes so long to complete a lap.lol

morpwr
27-05-2017, 19:04
Buttkickers are Finally Back in Stock!!! Hurry and Grab 1 or 2 they are going to sell out Fast!!!.... I have 2 and have Been trying to order a back up/Spare for Over a Year and they have been out of Stock!!! 1 of the buttkicker is about 4yrs or older and it acts Funky some time.....But Finally i Got a Email saying they are Back in stock!!! and Still $149.00!!! I looked at the Shell Shock/ Earth Quake and its $400.00 Im Glad i waited it out!

A Two Buttkicker set up is just awsome!!! 1 Plays Left and the other Plays Right audio....I cant even describe it you would just have to feel it for yourself but you can clearly feel the diff between L & R.... also using 2 of them stops you from over Heating Over working 1.... Buttkickers will Get Hot and Shut off!!! But when you use 2x you can keep the Vibration Volume Much Lower and Still have Maximum Feel.


Thry are Gonna sell out Quick so act Now if you can!!! Its Been over 1 year since they were in Stock last!

Its funny once you have one you notice something is wrong right away if you forget to turn it on. It actually adds a lot more then you would guess.

GrimeyDog
28-05-2017, 00:43
Its funny once you have one you notice something is wrong right away if you forget to turn it on. It actually adds a lot more then you would guess.

Very True indeed!!! the Buttkicker that shuts off sometimes is on the Left side and even though the Right side Buttkicker is still on i can Clearly feel when that 1 side shuts off-->Its something to do with the Volume because i keep it Low i think it goes into auto shut off because if i turn the Buttkicker Volume up it comes back on but then i have to readnust it to match the right side --> it doesnt happen often but this can be very frustrating when it happens in the Middle of a race.... its Not a Heat Related issue--> Its a 2012 model and i think the amps were Re-worked since then the amp gain may Not be as sensitive as the other to Low input/Output causing it to auto shut down but Other than that it works and plays fine.... Maybe i will mount the older 1 down at the pedals??? But what ever the Case im just happy to Finally have a Spare becaus they have been sooo hard to get for a long time....Once you start using Buttkickers its Really Hard to adjust to it Not working or Not using it.

These things also work Great while watching a Action Movie!!! The Matrix is just Incredable to watch in the Rig!!! You Feel Every Gun Shot!!!

GrimeyDog
28-05-2017, 04:42
Watching the 24Hrs of Nubergring all day... Its Just Not as Exciting as the 24Hrs of Lemans!!!! 24Hr Lemans should be a Really Good Fight this Year!!! LMP1---> Toyota, Porsche, Audi and Cadillac!!! I wonder How the Cadillac is Going to Do?

morpwr
28-05-2017, 14:05
Very True indeed!!! the Buttkicker that shuts off sometimes is on the Left side and even though the Right side Buttkicker is still on i can Clearly feel when that 1 side shuts off-->Its something to do with the Volume because i keep it Low i think it goes into auto shut off because if i turn the Buttkicker Volume up it comes back on but then i have to readnust it to match the right side --> it doesnt happen often but this can be very frustrating when it happens in the Middle of a race.... its Not a Heat Related issue--> Its a 2012 model and i think the amps were Re-worked since then the amp gain may Not be as sensitive as the other to Low input/Output causing it to auto shut down but Other than that it works and plays fine.... Maybe i will mount the older 1 down at the pedals??? But what ever the Case im just happy to Finally have a Spare becaus they have been sooo hard to get for a long time....Once you start using Buttkickers its Really Hard to adjust to it Not working or Not using it.

These things also work Great while watching a Action Movie!!! The Matrix is just Incredable to watch in the Rig!!! You Feel Every Gun Shot!!!

Yeah it annoying when they turn off. The auto shut off is too short sometimes when youre playing with stuff. They work great but I don't think the quality of these early ones was all that great. My remote never turns on the first time and usually takes at least 3 attempts. Did you guys see the accuforce ones are built specifically by buttkicker for sim racing but I didn't notice if they had any. I'm not sure if you can get the same model somewhere else or not.

GrimeyDog
29-05-2017, 22:11
Assrto Corsa is there a way to Map the Pause Button to the wheel??? I been Looking for it cant Find it... every time i have to pause i have to push the ESC button on the Keyboard... That kinda sucks!!!

Haiden
29-05-2017, 22:36
Assrto Corsa is there a way to Map the Pause Button to the wheel??? I been Looking for it cant Find it... every time i have to pause i have to push the ESC button on the Keyboard... That kinda sucks!!!

It just takes some getting used to. But it keeps it realistic--which they strive for. It also prevents (or at least hinders) people from using the pause to cheat in the single player challenges by making them reach for it. When you race online, you can't even pause to go back to the pitbox unless the car is stopped.

morpwr
30-05-2017, 11:07
Have you guys got any of the mod tracks yet? I tried sebring,mid-ohio and Bathurst last night. Sebring is still in early development but with the dp coyote it was awesome. It really gave you a feeling of how rough that track is. I know they always talk about how hard that track is on cars and it shows.lol Especially with something like the coyote. Mid-ohio was a lot of fun but the one that really surprised me was Bathurst. Really good mod(actually they all where) and for the first time it didn't seem modeled wrong. That track always seems way too narrow in most games to me. Ive watched races there quite a few times and have seen cars 2 wide through most of it even the part with the tight turns. So I know it should have room for 2 cars at racing speeds yet in most games it feels like there is barely room for one. Ill definitely be spending some time on all these. I got a few others but haven't had time too try them yet. Paul-ricard,mills park, and a few others. I wish the cars where as good as the tracks. Other then a few of them I find most of them aren't very good. The prototype mod with the coyote and the 2 other cars in that class is good but bently gt3 mod was bad. Oh yeah if you want to try a fun little car try the audi 4c. Another car that was surprisingly fun to drive and pretty quick. :)

Haiden
30-05-2017, 11:13
Have you guys got any of the mod tracks yet? I tried sebring,mid-ohio and Bathurst last night. Sebring is still in early development but with the dp coyote it was awesome. It really gave you a feeling of how rough that track is. I know they always talk about how hard that track is on cars and it shows.lol Especially with something like the coyote. Mid-ohio was a lot of fun but the one that really surprised me was Bathurst. Really good mod(actually they all where) and for the first time it didn't seem modeled wrong. That track always seems way too narrow in most games to me. Ive watched races there quite a few times and have seen cars 2 wide through most of it even the part with the tight turns. So I know it should have room for 2 cars at racing speeds yet in most games it feels like there is barely room for one. Ill definitely be spending some time on all these. I got a few others but haven't had time too try them yet. Paul-ricard,mills park, and a few others. I wish the cars where as good as the tracks. Other then a few of them I find most of them aren't very good. The prototype mod with the coyote and the 2 other cars in that class is good but bently gt3 mod was bad. Oh yeah if you want to try a fun little car try the audi 4c. Another car that was surprisingly fun to drive and pretty quick. :)

I've tried quite a few, and still have some installed--Bathurst, Road America, Monaco and others. They drive well, but sometimes the AI doesn't work well on them. Monaco is one that's impossible to run AI on. I don't think I've tried the AI at Bathurst yet, though.

morpwr
30-05-2017, 15:06
I've tried quite a few, and still have some installed--Bathurst, Road America, Monaco and others. They drive well, but sometimes the AI doesn't work well on them. Monaco is one that's impossible to run AI on. I don't think I've tried the AI at Bathurst yet, though.

Yeah I noticed that. One of the ai seriously looked like he had a few too many. But that was worst case scenario with multi class and max ai cars and even then it wasn't horrible.

Haiden
30-05-2017, 15:53
Yeah I noticed that. One of the ai seriously looked like he had a few too many. But that was worst case scenario with multi class and max ai cars and even then it wasn't horrible.

Wait until you get one that causes a traffic jam. I've seen the drunkard hugging the wall before off the start...LOL. Not bad, because he retires from the race before the pack completes the first lap. But sometimes, they get hung up on tracks like Monaco and Bathurst and ruin the entire race. Donnington is one that pisses me off. I love the track, but can't race it in AC, because the cars just inexplicably slow down on the stretch before the chicane on the National layout. Then the other cars just slow down and drive behind them. I should try it again, now that the AI has been updated. One or two slowing down wouldn't ruin the race if the other cars would just drive around him...LOL. They might do that now.

I like the mods, but I've come to take a more selective approach with them now. I used to download a lot of them at a time. But now, I just download one, install it, and then give it a thorough test drive. That way, if it sucks, I know exactly which files to remove and I can remove it before it becomes clutter. Installing too many at once, it would always been a days or weeks before I got to try some of them, and by then, I couldn't remember which files were which....LOL. I finally got sick of the clutter, uninstall everything, and then started from scratch. I'll give Mid-Ohio a shot. I don't think I tried that one.

Lately, all I've been doing is picking a track for the day, and then running Race Weekends on it, and sticking to that track for the entire day, whether that end up being 1 race or 4...LOL. I leave the difficulty set to 95-100, depending on the class, and then run 30 mins practice, 5 minute, quali, and a ten lap race. That makes it a bit of challenge, because 95-100 difficulty makes it really hard to quali in the to ten with only 30 minutes to set up the car, especially in open wheelers. But that's what I love about that session setup. Each race, I get better and better. But with random elements like wind changing from race to race, I have to spend a bit of that 30 minutes readjusting the setup (gearing, tire pressure, etc) for the current conditions, THEN I can get back to improving the setup in general. It's cool, because a change in wind direction and speed can seriously affect the gearing. I now have different setups specifically for strong headwinds and strong tail winds. It's amazing how that little randomness spices things up. :)

The cool thing is. If I start winning in a certain class, I just bump up the difficulty, and I'm back to middle of the grid, fighting to get into the top ten. :)

morpwr
30-05-2017, 16:41
Wait until you get one that causes a traffic jam. I've seen the drunkard hugging the wall before off the start...LOL. Not bad, because he retires from the race before the pack completes the first lap. But sometimes, they get hung up on tracks like Monaco and Bathurst and ruin the entire race. Donnington is one that pisses me off. I love the track, but can't race it in AC, because the cars just inexplicably slow down on the stretch before the chicane on the National layout. Then the other cars just slow down and drive behind them. I should try it again, now that the AI has been updated. One or two slowing down wouldn't ruin the race if the other cars would just drive around him...LOL. They might do that now.

I like the mods, but I've come to take a more selective approach with them now. I used to download a lot of them at a time. But now, I just download one, install it, and then give it a thorough test drive. That way, if it sucks, I know exactly which files to remove and I can remove it before it becomes clutter. Installing too many at once, it would always been a days or weeks before I got to try some of them, and by then, I couldn't remember which files were which....LOL. I finally got sick of the clutter, uninstall everything, and then started from scratch. I'll give Mid-Ohio a shot. I don't think I tried that one.

Lately, all I've been doing is picking a track for the day, and then running Race Weekends on it, and sticking to that track for the entire day, whether that end up being 1 race or 4...LOL. I leave the difficulty set to 95-100, depending on the class, and then run 30 mins practice, 5 minute, quali, and a ten lap race. That makes it a bit of challenge, because 95-100 difficulty makes it really hard to quali in the to ten with only 30 minutes to set up the car, especially in open wheelers. But that's what I love about that session setup. Each race, I get better and better. But with random elements like wind changing from race to race, I have to spend a bit of that 30 minutes readjusting the setup (gearing, tire pressure, etc) for the current conditions, THEN I can get back to improving the setup in general. It's cool, because a change in wind direction and speed can seriously affect the gearing. I now have different setups specifically for strong headwinds and strong tail winds. It's amazing how that little randomness spices things up. :)

The cool thing is. If I start winning in a certain class, I just bump up the difficulty, and I'm back to middle of the grid, fighting to get into the top ten. :)

I wish the one I had was stuck on a wall.lol It was all over the place swerving and spinning out on its own. It was fun to watch though.

Haiden
30-05-2017, 17:52
Nice to see a scaled comparison. The forum keeps downsizing the image, though. Not sure what size this one will upload as.

237927

Edit: I'll try to put the image online and post a link later.

morpwr
30-05-2017, 21:28
I was wondering about the ai in some of the mod tracks. I wonder if we can look at the ai files for ac tracks and adjust the ai in the mod tracks accordingly. From what I remember there are only 4 or 5 things you can adjust. At least in the files we have access to. May have to try that if I find any that are really bad.

Haiden
30-05-2017, 21:58
I was wondering about the ai in some of the mod tracks. I wonder if we can look at the ai files for ac tracks and adjust the ai in the mod tracks accordingly. From what I remember there are only 4 or 5 things you can adjust. At least in the files we have access to. May have to try that if I find any that are really bad.

Yeah... I know one of the sims has a pretty interesting AI file that you can edit. I can't remember which one, but IIRC, the AI files were in a folder called talent. I think it might have been AMS, though. If you find it in AC, let me know. I've heard modders talking about AI issues with their tracks and saying things like, "I need to go back and adjust the AI scripting." or "The AI lines need work." So I'm not sure those problems can be adjust easily in the file. The file might have things like consistency, speed, etc. But the annoying issues I've seen are more related to the AI simply not being able to navigate the track. It's like the AI can't see where to go, like the code it's using is bad and it just gets confused. If it's an easy fix, it would save some tracks for me.

morpwr
31-05-2017, 01:38
I ran donnington with gt3 tonight and it seemed to work ok. Same with paul riccard wttc and the audi tt. The ai was a little weird with that one but not bad. Almost seemed like the aggression needed to be set lower. Not bad but they gave you zero room so maybe with the aggression settings they could work better. I did check the files in ac but only the ones in the steam file so still need to check more. Those ones cant be opened or at least I don't know how.

Haiden
31-05-2017, 03:24
I ran donnington with gt3 tonight and it seemed to work ok. Same with paul riccard wttc and the audi tt. The ai was a little weird with that one but not bad. Almost seemed like the aggression needed to be set lower. Not bad but they gave you zero room so maybe with the aggression settings they could work better. I did check the files in ac but only the ones in the steam file so still need to check more. Those ones cant be opened or at least I don't know how.

No, dude. You're spot on. I'm glad you mentioned the mods, the new AI seems to have cleared up those issues. I was just racing F1 at Donnington National, high downforce, low gear ratio... Jesus! That was awesome. A 16 car grid all qualified within 1.1 seconds of the leader. Had a great wheel to wheel battle through a whole sector to move into 4th. Then on the second to last lap, P2 spun and P3 hit him when he came up the blind hill. I barely cleared the mess and finished 2nd. But tbh... I would have been happy with 4th after the battle I had to get it...LOL

Haven't tried any of the other tracks, but if Donnington is fixed, it's looking good. I'm telling you, the cars used to just stall and line up behind the slow car. By the time you came around to the last straight and cleared the hill, there'd be so many of them, it looked like a funeral procession up ahead...LOL.

This update has been stellar. AI was the weak link in AC for me. Other than that, I always loved it. But that's one of the reasons I usually only played it online. The only way to enjoy single player was to start from the back of the grid and make it an overtake challenge. Not anymore. Now, we're racing. :)

morpwr
31-05-2017, 11:08
No, dude. You're spot on. I'm glad you mentioned the mods, the new AI seems to have cleared up those issues. I was just racing F1 at Donnington National, high downforce, low gear ratio... Jesus! That was awesome. A 16 car grid all qualified within 1.1 seconds of the leader. Had a great wheel to wheel battle through a whole sector to move into 4th. Then on the second to last lap, P2 spun and P3 hit him when he came up the blind hill. I barely cleared the mess and finished 2nd. But tbh... I would have been happy with 4th after the battle I had to get it...LOL

Haven't tried any of the other tracks, but if Donnington is fixed, it's looking good. I'm telling you, the cars used to just stall and line up behind the slow car. By the time you came around to the last straight and cleared the hill, there'd be so many of them, it looked like a funeral procession up ahead...LOL.

This update has been stellar. AI was the weak link in AC for me. Other than that, I always loved it. But that's one of the reasons I usually only played it online. The only way to enjoy single player was to start from the back of the grid and make it an overtake challenge. Not anymore. Now, we're racing. :)


The ones ive tried seem to be ok just don't expect sebring to be perfect because it still in early development but its definitely worth having.

Haiden
31-05-2017, 14:47
The ones ive tried seem to be ok just don't expect sebring to be perfect because it still in early development but its definitely worth having.

Dude, the AI is so good, I forget I'm racing single player sometimes. The wheel to wheel action is incredible. They don't just leave you room in an anticipatory way; it's more like they are actively monitoring your car's line and will make adjustments to capitalize on opportunities while they're running wheel to wheel with you. And what's really impressive is that engaging with you like that slows their pace in a realistic way. I'm really loving this update! :D And the slipstream effect is so much better now. You can totally feel the grip difference between taking a corner in clean air and taking the same corner during a race while trailing close behind another car and catching it's dirty air.

morpwr
31-05-2017, 16:56
Dude, the AI is so good, I forget I'm racing single player sometimes. The wheel to wheel action is incredible. They don't just leave you room in an anticipatory way; it's more like they are actively monitoring your car's line and will make adjustments to capitalize on opportunities while they're running wheel to wheel with you. And what's really impressive is that engaging with you like that slows their pace in a realistic way. I'm really loving this update! :D And the slipstream effect is so much better now. You can totally feel the grip difference between taking a corner in clean air and taking the same corner during a race while trailing close behind another car and catching it's dirty air.


Yeah I noticed they will block too especially on starts. The other thing I noticed is if you try to force a move on the outside they don't give up anymore and like in real road racing the guy on the outside gets spun. Ask me how I know.:rolleyes: But makes for some good racing. You need to pay a lot more attention to whats happening around you now.

Olijke Poffer
31-05-2017, 17:51
Dude, the AI is so good, I forget I'm racing single player sometimes. The wheel to wheel action is incredible. They don't just leave you room in an anticipatory way; it's more like they are actively monitoring your car's line and will make adjustments to capitalize on opportunities while they're running wheel to wheel with you. And what's really impressive is that engaging with you like that slows their pace in a realistic way. I'm really loving this update! :D And the slipstream effect is so much better now. You can totally feel the grip difference between taking a corner in clean air and taking the same corner during a race while trailing close behind another car and catching it's dirty air.

So I presume I have to buy assetto corsa now? :cool:

RomKnight
31-05-2017, 17:57
Save the money for pC2 :P :D

Haiden
31-05-2017, 18:27
So I presume I have to buy assetto corsa now? :cool:

Not sure what it's like on console, but the PC version is definitely worth buying. Always was, especially if you were into online racing. AC just needed better AI and now it's there, and the line is definitely blurred between single player and online.


Save the money for pC2 :P :D

Definitely looking forward to it! And I hope it's everything they say it will be. But seeing that I don't play PCars one anymore, the proof will be in the product, not the promises. ;)

morpwr
31-05-2017, 18:46
So I presume I have to buy assetto corsa now? :cool:

Yes

morpwr
31-05-2017, 18:47
Save the money for pC2 :P :D

Absolutely.The stuff ive seen looks really good.

Haiden
31-05-2017, 18:48
Yesterday, I got an email that my Buttkicker shipped. It arrived today! Wasn't expecting it so quick, but I'm not complaining.

Olijke Poffer
31-05-2017, 18:54
Save the money for pC2 :P :D
No need, already placed an order for the limited edition. ;)


Not sure what it's like on console, but the PC version is definitely worth buying. Always was, especially if you were into online racing. AC just needed better AI and now it's there, and the line is definitely blurred between single player and online.



Definitely looking forward to it! And I hope it's everything they say it will be. But seeing that I don't play PCars one anymore, the proof will be in the product, not the promises. ;)

I'm only on the PS4. I tend to buy AC but on the other hand, when I have Pcars I have my hands full. I don't have that much game time to be good with both sim racers.. difficult choise. Or be crazy and just buy both..


Yes

Haha thanks...

morpwr
31-05-2017, 19:03
Yesterday, I got an email that my Buttkicker shipped. It arrived today! Wasn't expecting it so quick, but I'm not complaining.

AC is a pain in the as- to get the bk working. All the rest just work. But ac you have to mirror it in steam vr settings and set the driver to oculous in ac and make sure oculous is default in the pc with the speakers second. You need to reboot the pc for it to take effect after changing anything. Don't forget to mirror the sound in the oculous settings too.

Haiden
31-05-2017, 19:04
I'm only on the PS4. I tend to buy AC but on the other hand, when I have Pcars I have my hands full. I don't have that much game time to be good with both sim racers.. difficult choise. Or be crazy and just buy both..

I haven't played AC on console, but from what I've seen and heard, it seems like PCars is still the best sim on console, especially when you factor in the transition features.

morpwr
31-05-2017, 19:07
I haven't played AC on console, but from what I've seen and heard, it seems like PCars is still the best sim on console, especially when you factor in the transition features.

I did. It was bad in the beginning but they are getting it caught up to us and have added some new features for the console so its pretty close right now. Only real difference is you will never have the extra things we can do in the files on pc.

Olijke Poffer
31-05-2017, 19:33
I haven't played AC on console, but from what I've seen and heard, it seems like PCars is still the best sim on console, especially when you factor in the transition features.

Yeah did some research and I hear more racer telling it is not the best choice on a console.
Well I'll wait untill pcars 2 drops on my doorstep. If I'm not very happy with it, I can decide to buy AC after all. But as I'm very happy with pcars 1 I presume pcars 2 will make happy as well.

GrimeyDog
31-05-2017, 22:24
fanatec released their new PS4 wheel today...same Motor, Power supply and 1000Hz electronics set up at the v2.5 but its 6Nm because it has a different gear ratio-> looks really interesting how its put together with Only 1 belt Drive....I'm not interested in getting it but thought it was worth a mention....No reviews on it yet though.

morpwr
31-05-2017, 23:36
fanatec released their new PS4 wheel today...same Motor, Power supply and 1000Hz electronics set up at the v2.5 but its 6Nm because it has a different gear ratio-> looks really interesting how its put together with Only 1 belt Drive....I'm not interested in getting it but thought it was worth a mention....No reviews on it yet though.

Sounds like it should fall right in between the t300 and the pcracer with the fanatec quality id guess that would be a really nice wheel.

GrimeyDog
01-06-2017, 10:38
AC is a pain in the as- to get the bk working. All the rest just work. But ac you have to mirror it in steam vr settings and set the driver to oculous in ac and make sure oculous is default in the pc with the speakers second. You need to reboot the pc for it to take effect after changing anything. Don't forget to mirror the sound in the oculous settings too.

I Run My Buttkicker from the 3.5mm Head phone jack on the TV!!! Everything just works No Fuss or problems... My OC even picks up My TV sound Card --->"Samsung HD audio out"
Maybe your TV has the same...TV Brand should Not Matter if your TV has a PC mode.

Matter of fact i Run all audio through the TV--> I use the TV Optic audio output to run the Head Set-->Astro A40 *TS Mix amp--> This way No Matter what input i use HDMI 1-->4(Cable Box, PS4, XB1, PC) My Headphones and Buttkickers play what ever sounds are playing through that input---> I have Oculus Headphones and Mic Disabled---> That Oculus Mic is a Sneeky Buggger if you dont know its there You wont Know its there!!! and there is No way to Mute it!!! Every 1 Hears esrything all the Time:mad:

morpwr
01-06-2017, 10:46
I Run My Buttkicker from the 3.5mm Head phone jack on the TV!!! Everything just works No Fuss or problems... My OC even picks up My TV sound Card --->"Samsung HD audio out"
Maybe your TV has the same...TV Brand should Not Matter if your TV has a PC mode.

Matter of fact i Run all audio through the TV--> I use the TV Optic audio output to run the Head Set-->Astro A40 *TS Mix amp--> This way No Matter what input i use HDMI 1-->4(Cable Box, PS4, XB1, PC) My Headphones and Buttkickers play what ever sounds are playing through that input---> I have Oculus Headphones and Mic Disabled---> That Oculus Mic is a Sneeky Buggger if you dont know its there You wont Know its there!!! and there is No way to Mute it!!! Every 1 Hears esrything all the Time:mad:


I switched to a gaming monitor when I went with vr so everything comes out of the pc. I'm using the oculus headphones.

GrimeyDog
01-06-2017, 10:48
@Haiden New Driver out on Fanatec web site DR 289.... I used the alpha version DR 284 and its was Very Stable--->The windows updates have been screwing with the wheel prooerties page---> Seems that MS Drivers take over to run your wheel and you may Nit even know it unless you discover you cant open the Fanatec wheel properties page... Windows Drivers do ok but they are Not as Good as Fanatec Drivers you Loose fidelity---> This can be Hard to pin point when your racing New Sims or Trying Many Different cars.-->alpha 284 fixed that 289 should be better.

Haiden
01-06-2017, 11:18
I Run My Buttkicker from the 3.5mm Head phone jack on the TV!!! Everything just works No Fuss or problems... My OC even picks up My TV sound Card --->"Samsung HD audio out"
Maybe your TV has the same...TV Brand should Not Matter if your TV has a PC mode.

Matter of fact i Run all audio through the TV--> I use the TV Optic audio output to run the Head Set-->Astro A40 *TS Mix amp--> This way No Matter what input i use HDMI 1-->4(Cable Box, PS4, XB1, PC) My Headphones and Buttkickers play what ever sounds are playing through that input---> I have Oculus Headphones and Mic Disabled---> That Oculus Mic is a Sneeky Buggger if you dont know its there You wont Know its there!!! and there is No way to Mute it!!! Every 1 Hears esrything all the Time:mad:

Yeah... I can output sound to the TV through HMDI or optical. But I'm running it out of the PC to a surround speaker set and the Oculus headset. I just split the subwoofer output to power the buttkicker. I've been meaning to try my gaming headset with the Oculus, but just haven't got around to it. The Oculus headset sounds fine. What do you mean everyone hears everything? You need to be in a chat server to be heard, right?


@Haiden New Driver out on Fanatec web site DR 289.... I used the alpha version DR 284 and its was Very Stable--->The windows updates have been screwing with the wheel prooerties page---> Seems that MS Drivers take over to run your wheel and you may Nit even know it unless you discover you cant open the Fanatec wheel properties page... Windows Drivers do ok but they are Not as Good as Fanatec Drivers you Loose fidelity---> This can be Hard to pin point when your racing New Sims or Trying Many Different cars.-->alpha 284 fixed that 289 should be better.

I hadn't seen that. I'm not having any issues with the Windows update, but I'll give the new driver a shot soon.

OddTimer
01-06-2017, 12:05
Yeah did some research and I hear more racer telling it is not the best choice on a console.
Well I'll wait untill pcars 2 drops on my doorstep. If I'm not very happy with it, I can decide to buy AC after all. But as I'm very happy with pcars 1 I presume pcars 2 will make happy as well.

you can wait for the 1.5 update for consoles...this is the one updating the ai.

morpwr
01-06-2017, 13:07
Haiden,
New open wheel in r3e today? They are doing an update.

GrimeyDog
01-06-2017, 13:20
The Oculus Mic is ALWAYS on!!! Any Room you are in with Voice Chat enabled everything you say can Be Clearly Heard....Test it... Go to Sound options with Oculus on and Talk you will see the sound bar Moving.... I just use My Astro A40 Mic because i can Mute when i want---> Oculus has No Mute feature... I disabled it in Oculus settings and from PC and Made the Astro A40 Mic primary.

Haiden
01-06-2017, 13:45
The Oculus Mic is ALWAYS on!!! Any Room you are in with Voice Chat enabled everything you say can Be Clearly Heard....Test it... Go to Sound options with Oculus on and Talk you will see the sound bar Moving.... I just use My Astro A40 Mic because i can Mute when i want---> Oculus has No Mute feature... I disabled it in Oculus settings and from PC and Made the Astro A40 Mic primary.

Well, yeah... When you enable it...LOL. Which sims have voice chat? Ive never heard anyone chatting in any of the ones I play, only private Teamspeak servers.

GrimeyDog
01-06-2017, 13:57
Well, yeah... When you enable it...LOL. Which sims have voice chat? Ive never heard anyone chatting in any of the ones I play, only private Teamspeak servers.

Yes but even then you still dont have the option to mute the Mic unless you can do it through team speak... I dont use the push to talk--> i usually have that button Mapped to Look Back or Kers/DRS... No big Deal i just Mentioned it because i keep Oculus Mic disabled... I didnt know it was there for a bit:confused: LOL

GrimeyDog
01-06-2017, 14:13
Whoaaa!!! Thomas/Fanatec just Said " The up coming DD wheel will Not be PS4 compatible but this Might Happen in the Future Hmmm Maybe they are Close to a DD Release after all:o

Haiden
01-06-2017, 14:49
Yes but even then you still dont have the option to mute the Mic unless you can do it through team speak... I dont use the push to talk--> i usually have that button Mapped to Look Back or Kers/DRS... No big Deal i just Mentioned it because i keep Oculus Mic disabled... I didnt know it was there for a bit:confused: LOL

I know what you mean about the mute. It hasn't been a problem for me, because I haven't come across any public chat rooms in PC sims, only chat room I've been in are the Teamspeak servers for RaceDepartment, but you have to connect to those outside the game session. I use the Push-to-Talk for CrewChief. You can map it to any button you want. No need to remap your DRS and KERS. Just use another button for Push-to-talk. :)


Whoaaa!!! Thomas/Fanatec just Said " The up coming DD wheel will Not be PS4 compatible but this Might Happen in the Future Hmmm Maybe they are Close to a DD Release after all:o

That's awesome. I'm torn on the V2.5 now, if the DD is right around the corner. I thought it was a couple years out. Screw Sony. They made their bed. Glad Fanatec isn't letting Sony slow things down. Besides... a DD is a bit overkill for console, anyway. If you're buying a DD wheel for your console, you should really be thinking about putting that cash toward an upgrade to PC. :) I saw a guy post a pic of his rig on another forum. He had a Bodnar wheel, Heusinkveld pedals on a custom 80/20 pedal mount, and a button box--all mounted to his awesome sturdy, Playseat Challenge game chair. I mean seriously... talk about bass akwards planning. LOL

GrimeyDog
01-06-2017, 15:49
Yes I saw that pic and was thinking WTF:confused:

Fanatec DD wheel Now for Me i feel is Really Optional/ I can take it or Leave it--> IMO the v2.5 is Really that Good!!! I would have to personally test a DD wheel in a Game with FFB settings set to My FFB taste and it would have to a Signifigant improovment in FFB Feel for Me to Go Really Hard to Get a DD.

The Drag Free wheel Center Really sets the v2.5 far ahead in FFB feel---> Most of the Difference is in Subtle FFB feel and Power Ramp up to stronger FFB...The Diff is Really Night and Day very its a very Clear and Obviouse impdoovement in FFB Feel.

Now I might Change My Mind Once the Fanatec DD is out but i Can/will wait for Reviews First because im Very Satisfied with the v2.5---> also If the DD cost More than $899.00 i dont think i will be interested unless the Reviews are absolutely Stellar---> But even then i may Hold out for a Black Friday $ale/Price Drop.---> I have tooo many Dam wheels as it is and No clue what im going to do.with them... I think about selling off the Extras But just cant bring Myself around to doing it---> Im a Wheel Hoarder--->I think i Need Help:p LOL

Haiden
01-06-2017, 16:56
Yes I saw that pic and was thinking WTF:confused:

Fanatec DD wheel Now for Me i feel is Really Optional/ I can take it or Leave it--> IMO the v2.5 is Really that Good!!! I would have to personally test a DD wheel in a Game with FFB settings set to My FFB taste and it would have to a Signifigant improovment in FFB Feel for Me to Go Really Hard to Get a DD.

The Drag Free wheel Center Really sets the v2.5 far ahead in FFB feel---> Most of the Difference is in Subtle FFB feel and Power Ramp up to stronger FFB...The Diff is Really Night and Day very its a very Clear and Obviouse impdoovement in FFB Feel.

Now I might Change My Mind Once the Fanatec DD is out but i Can/will wait for Reviews First because im Very Satisfied with the v2.5---> also If the DD cost More than $899.00 i dont think i will be interested unless the Reviews are absolutely Stellar---> But even then i may Hold out for a Black Friday $ale/Price Drop.---> I have tooo many Dam wheels as it is and No clue what im going to do.with them... I think about selling off the Extras But just cant bring Myself around to doing it---> Im a Wheel Hoarder--->I think i Need Help:p LOL

I'm torn. I wish they would at least give some kind of tentative target date, or year even. That would really help.

I'm sure the V2.5 is great. As far as which is better, it's hard to compare the V2.5 to something that doesn't exist yet (the DD). That said, I do find it hard to believe Fanatec would make an expensive DD wheel that was just a small improvement over the belt-driven V2.5, just to say they have a DD wheel. That doesn't seem very smart. I would expect it to be a huge improvement over the belts to justify the likely much higher price. Also, I honestly believe that the DD development is what drove the V2.5 improvements. New technologies developed for the DD wheel are being integrated with the older model to make overall production easier/more efficient. Why manufacturer two different sensors and host of other parts, when you can just make both bases use the same parts wherever possible? It also makes sense that those trickle down improvements would hit market first, because the belt-driven models are the current product line. Those production changes would need to be in place before the new product release.

But I hope Fanatec haven't lost their minds and try to release a DD wheel that's twice the price for just a minimal fidelity increase...LOL I'll wait for the reviews, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a clear difference. Every wheel release they done has been a substantial improvement over the predecessor. Why would that change?

Haiden
01-06-2017, 17:48
Haiden,
New open wheel in r3e today? They are doing an update.

Really? Wonder which one. AMS released a new one recently, but I haven't played that I got VR. They really need to hurry up and get VR support for that title.

morpwr
01-06-2017, 17:56
Really? Wonder which one. AMS released a new one recently, but I haven't played that I got VR. They really need to hurry up and get VR support for that title.

WTTC and new track instead. I was kind of looking forward to the new open wheel.:( Didn't ams say they weren't going to do vr at all? Which I thought was really strange at this point. How can you ignore vr ?

GrimeyDog
01-06-2017, 19:33
I'm torn. I wish they would at least give some kind of tentative target date, or year even. That would really help.

I'm sure the V2.5 is great. As far as which is better, it's hard to compare the V2.5 to something that doesn't exist yet (the DD). That said, I do find it hard to believe Fanatec would make an expensive DD wheel that was just a small improvement over the belt-driven V2.5, just to say they have a DD wheel. That doesn't seem very smart. I would expect it to be a huge improvement over the belts to justify the likely much higher price. Also, I honestly believe that the DD development is what drove the V2.5 improvements. New technologies developed for the DD wheel are being integrated with the older model to make overall production easier/more efficient. Why manufacturer two different sensors and host of other parts, when you can just make both bases use the same parts wherever possible? It also makes sense that those trickle down improvements would hit market first, because the belt-driven models are the current product line. Those production changes would need to be in place before the new product release.

But I hope Fanatec haven't lost their minds and try to release a DD wheel that's twice the price for just a minimal fidelity increase...LOL I'll wait for the reviews, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a clear difference. Every wheel release they done has been a substantial improvement over the predecessor. Why would that change?

I mostly agree with you...I believe the DD will be better but the Big Question is How Much Better??? Thats what i Really Want to know.... If its going to just be alot Stronger im Not interested---> I did a R3E Race with My Regular 0-->Light Clipping FFB settings at 100% and it was Sooo Dam Strong that Even though the FFB it felt Good i cant Race like that just too Dam Strong--->FFB was also Very detailed but you Better Hold wheel tight if your hitting Curbs!!!

I Need a Marginable increase in Subtle FFB Feel<--- Note PCars Would Not be Good for testing---> Although Pcars Feels Good its Lacking that connected to the Road feel that other Sims have --> I dunno if this Lack of Feel is Because other Sims use Canned effects and PCars Does Not but the FFB is Definitley Lacking Tire Scrub Friction Feel which Disqualifys it from being a Good Candidate to judge Subtle FFB feel---> The v2.5 is Good with PCars but it Really Comes to Life with R3E!!!

morpwr
01-06-2017, 19:40
I mostly agree with you...I believe the DD will be better but the Big Question is How Much Better??? Thats what i Really Want to know.... If its going to just be alot Stronger im Not interested---> I did a R3E Race with My Regular 0-->Light Clipping FFB settings at 100% and it was Sooo Dam Strong that Even though the FFB it felt Good i cant Race like that just too Dam Strong--->FFB was also Very detailed but you Better Hold wheel tight if your hitting Curbs!!!

I Need a Marginable increase in Subtle FFB Feel<--- Note PCars Would Not be Good for testing---> Although Pcars Feels Good its Lacking that connected to the Road feel that other Sims have --> I dunno if this Lack of Feel is Because other Sims use Canned effects and PCars Does Not but the FFB is Definitley Lacking Tire Scrub Friction Feel which Disqualifys it from being a Good Candidate to judge Subtle FFB feel---> The v2.5 is Good with PCars but it Really Comes to Life with R3E!!!


Its because pcars 1 is the odd ball and only used pure rack forces so it feels different then the rest.

Haiden
01-06-2017, 21:04
WTTC and new track instead. I was kind of looking forward to the new open wheel.:( Didn't ams say they weren't going to do vr at all? Which I thought was really strange at this point. How can you ignore vr ?

I'm starting to think Reiza is intentionally trying to solidify a position/market share in the low end PC market... LOL No surround sound. No VR. Yeah... if that's their strategy, they're on track...LOL

Haiden
01-06-2017, 21:14
I mostly agree with you...I believe the DD will be better but the Big Question is How Much Better??? Thats what i Really Want to know.... If its going to just be alot Stronger im Not interested---> I did a R3E Race with My Regular 0-->Light Clipping FFB settings at 100% and it was Sooo Dam Strong that Even though the FFB it felt Good i cant Race like that just too Dam Strong--->FFB was also Very detailed but you Better Hold wheel tight if your hitting Curbs!!!

I Need a Marginable increase in Subtle FFB Feel<--- Note PCars Would Not be Good for testing---> Although Pcars Feels Good its Lacking that connected to the Road feel that other Sims have --> I dunno if this Lack of Feel is Because other Sims use Canned effects and PCars Does Not but the FFB is Definitley Lacking Tire Scrub Friction Feel which Disqualifys it from being a Good Candidate to judge Subtle FFB feel---> The v2.5 is Good with PCars but it Really Comes to Life with R3E!!!

IDK... That was kind of my point... Why would Fanatec make a wheel that costs twice as much but not be a substantial improvement in fidelity. I don't think they're just make a stronger wheel. I think they're going to take advantage of everything DD offers, particularly, response time. That's something a belt-driven wheel simply can't do as well as a DD wheel, because it's a result of the efficiency gained by having a direct connection to the motor. If you think refresh rate is important, then you should understand how much response time influences and effects fidelity.

Glad you finally figured out the PCars FFB thing. That's what some of us have been saying for a really long time. :)

morpwr
02-06-2017, 10:59
Rfactor still has a ways to go in vr. Id say give it a couple months unless they make serious progress. One track had clouds that looked like they were 8 feet above the track. The other one was really dark and really difficult to see. Not night time dark but like all the shading was off so it was hard to tell the difference between the track and the grass until you were there. Still drove ok though. One thing I noticed last night with it though was its the easiest out of all the games to drive. I wonder if that's why so many people say its so good? I noticed that when I drove a oval in it with a stock car it seemed to be way to easy. I ran Silverstone with a open wheel in it same result it seemed too easy for me to get comfortable with the car really quick. Its like the cars are way to balanced and grippy so it makes it really hard to get the car to do anything wrong.It has promise but it has a ways to go at this point.

Haiden
02-06-2017, 14:11
Rfactor still has a ways to go in vr. Id say give it a couple months unless they make serious progress. One track had clouds that looked like they were 8 feet above the track. The other one was really dark and really difficult to see. Not night time dark but like all the shading was off so it was hard to tell the difference between the track and the grass until you were there. Still drove ok though. One thing I noticed last night with it though was its the easiest out of all the games to drive. I wonder if that's why so many people say its so good? I noticed that when I drove a oval in it with a stock car it seemed to be way to easy. I ran Silverstone with a open wheel in it same result it seemed too easy for me to get comfortable with the car really quick. Its like the cars are way to balanced and grippy so it makes it really hard to get the car to do anything wrong.It has promise but it has a ways to go at this point.

Yeah... I wasn't that impressed with the update when I tried it. I should go back and give it another shot--maybe this weekend. But I had basically came to the same conclusion you did--that it needs more time. They're on the right track, but the thing I wonder is whether it's too late for catch up. Reiza and 397 are taking old sims that used the be great and trying to make them modern. But SMS, Kunos, and iRacing have already created really good modern sims that are pushing the envelope in many areas, and they continue to develop the titles, bring more and more improvements and features. Can Reiza and 397 ever catch up? It seems like they're just too far behind. And Reiza saying no VR? What's that, other than a death wish? I mean... I've already pretty much given up on AMS. I usually load it up whenever a guest comes over and I don't feel like let them sweat in my VR headset (LOL). Instead of changing the graphic settings on my main VR sims, I just boot up AMS and let them try the sim in 2D. But other than that, I don't touch AMS or rF2.

I thought rF2's FFB was pretty good. That can sometimes make a sim feel easier to drive. I honestly thing PCars' FFB is one of the reasons it seems harder to drive than AC and others. Not because the physics are better, but because frictionless FFB has less subtle grip feel. rF2's braking is definitely more forgiving than AC, though, which might be one of the reasons it seems easier. IMO, AC has the least forgiving braking out of all my sims.

tennenbaum
03-06-2017, 14:14
Hi guys,

Obviously this thread is alive and kicking as ever before. Congrats! I also noticed that you all moved over to PC. (I'm itching to do so too...). I also saw that you got VR sets. Are you actually using it? I drive Dirt and Driveclub with a PSVR from time to time, and i really enjoy the immersion, but the low resolution of the glasses (or the games on PS4?) blurs the more distant objects too much for my taste. If the oculus rift or vive is definitely better, the PC attracts me even more...

I was absent from the forum and racing for quite a while. Just did a couple of runs today on Watkins Glen with my beloved Ruf GT3-8 - it felt awesome! I actually started to like Assetto Corsa kind of, i had a lot of fun to compare physics and FBB between AC and pCars. For sure, at least in my eyes, AC handles gras sand and curbs a bit better, which is easy to test, and the oversteering of the car is easier to introduce and control with the throttle... However, if you're really pushing on your correct racing line pCars car handling is really great and plausible.

What really puzzled me is that the FFB of both games feel really different, but both feel great in their own way. I kind of made my peace with pCars FFB (since i got used to not to think about the FFB any longer, due to my right fine out of the box experience with AC). I just dial in JS values and leave Relative Adjust to 1 (meaning i turn it of) - works for me quite nicely. On the other hand, what i really like about AC is that since the cars got good default FFB it's always amazing to me to change cars and experience their different feeling. While with pCars i have to "design" the FFB by myself, which takes away a bit the surprise of variations... I hope with pCars2 the devs will give the different cars plausible individual force feedback that reflects their handling in reality.

When i googled lap times for different real world tracks and cars i found a website that you might like: https://www.raceoptimal.com Laptimes optimization by try and error computation with great raceline plus breaking and acceleration visualization.

I made a (very rough) check if their lap times with the 911 GT3 RS4 are valid / plausible. And i think they are. (Keep in mind the RS4 holds GT3 in its name, but the car is street legal, and not to compare with a real GT3 Porsche. The latter costs around 450.000 , while the RS4 is about 180.000 €. When you use box check the RS4 the time is about 2"01 which is ok, in the game my time with the Ruf GT3-8 is around 1"47 without training. Real racers with a real GT3 Porsche are around the same time, and some can be even faster i suppose. Here a video of two guys who are obviously pretty familiar with Watkins and their Porsche GT3 models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLtChQBj4vg (1"52 with slower cars on the track.)

What i like about the webpage is the huge number of tracks you can download as videos or jpg. Unfortunately the website doesn't show "The Nord" and Watkins Glen Short. However check it out, i found it interesting.

What else? I actually realized that i had a totally wrong FOV during the entire year of 2016... So I moved my 48" flat close to my nose (ca. 92 cm) and dialed in 74 (hFOV degree). Very weird in the beginning, since i was 110 hFOV before with an eye to screen distance of about 150 cm... I see you lol... But it never came to my mind to think about it. Well, by now I get used to the more real look. Funny how steep the Foxhole on the Nord all of sudden looks to me.

Whatever... nice to meet you here again! I let you know when i step up the ladder with a decent PC ;-) I think with GT Sports and pCars2 we're looking into a bright future :-) Race well!

morpwr
03-06-2017, 14:50
Hi guys,

Obviously this thread is alive and kicking as ever before. Congrats! I also noticed that you all moved over to PC. (I'm itching to do so too...). I also saw that you got VR sets. Are you actually using it? I drive Dirt and Driveclub with a PSVR from time to time, and i really enjoy the immersion, but the low resolution of the glasses (or the games on PS4?) blurs the more distant objects too much for my taste. If the oculus rift or vive is definitely better, the PC attracts me even more...

I was absent from the forum and racing for quite a while. Just did a couple of runs today on Watkins Glen with my beloved Ruf GT3-8 - it felt awesome! I actually started to like Assetto Corsa kind of, i had a lot of fun to compare physics and FBB between AC and pCars. For sure, at least in my eyes, AC handles gras sand and curbs a bit better, which is easy to test, and the oversteering of the car is easier to introduce and control with the throttle... However, if you're really pushing on your correct racing line pCars car handling is really great and plausible.

What really puzzled me is that the FFB of both games feel really different, but both feel great in their own way. I kind of made my peace with pCars FFB (since i got used to not to think about the FFB any longer, due to my right fine out of the box experience with AC). I just dial in JS values and leave Relative Adjust to 1 (meaning i turn it of) - works for me quite nicely. On the other hand, what i really like about AC is that since the cars got good default FFB it's always amazing to me to change cars and experience their different feeling. While with pCars i have to "design" the FFB by myself, which takes away a bit the surprise of variations... I hope with pCars2 the devs will give the different cars plausible individual force feedback that reflects their handling in reality.

When i googled lap times for different real world tracks and cars i found a website that you might like: https://www.raceoptimal.com Laptimes optimization by try and error computation with great raceline plus breaking and acceleration visualization.

I made a (very rough) check if their lap times with the 911 GT3 RS4 are valid / plausible. And i think they are. (Keep in mind the RS4 holds GT3 in its name, but the car is street legal, and not to compare with a real GT3 Porsche. The latter costs around 450.000 , while the RS4 is about 180.000 €. When you use box check the RS4 the time is about 2"01 which is ok, in the game my time with the Ruf GT3-8 is around 1"47 without training. Real racers with a real GT3 Porsche are around the same time, and some can be even faster i suppose. Here a video of two guys who are obviously pretty familiar with Watkins and their Porsche GT3 models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLtChQBj4vg (1"52 with slower cars on the track.)

What i like about the webpage is the huge number of tracks you can download as videos or jpg. Unfortunately the website doesn't show "The Nord" and Watkins Glen Short. However check it out, i found it interesting.

What else? I actually realized that i had a totally wrong FOV during the entire year of 2016... So I moved my 48" flat close to my nose (ca. 92 cm) and dialed in 74 (hFOV degree). Very weird in the beginning, since i was 110 hFOV before with an eye to screen distance of about 150 cm... I see you lol... But it never came to my mind to think about it. Well, by now I get used to the more real look. Funny how steep the Foxhole on the Nord all of sudden looks to me.

Whatever... nice to meet you here again! I let you know when i step up the ladder with a decent PC ;-) I think with GT Sports and pCars2 we're looking into a bright future :-) Race well!


Glad to see you back its been awhile. To answer the question about vr and the pc. All I play in vr now and its awesome!!!! Ill never go back to a screen. On a pc vr is pretty close to what you would see on a screen with a better pc. If youre going to get a pc if you can swing it get the best gpu you can afford. I was going back and forth between the screen and vr on ac the other night and its pretty close. Close enough I don't its in any way bad. But they are still making improvements with software updates on oculus,steam and the games themselves. Its actually improved a lot just since I got mine. I actually went back to a 27 inch monitor because I wont ever use a monitor for gaming now. Vr and a buttkicker with a rig changes everything. The experience is so much better. You will actually forget your holding a different wheel then what you see on the screen. Ive done it many times try to reach for a button that isn't there.lol The other really big thing vr does is immediately make it apparent the ai in most games aren't as bad as you think.lol It so much easier when you can look around and just glance over at the mirrors like you would in real life. Its a lot easier to take the blame when you knew the guy behind was inside you and you still tried to take the corner.lol

As for other games wait until you get a pc. AC is still a lot better on pc but I think the ps4 is on the 10 tire model so it close. Thing is there are still things on pc you can use to improve the ffb that you cant on the consoles. R3e is in some aspects better but they are both really good. Its really a toss up between those two for me at this point. The ai in both are really good and make for some tight racing. R3e has more adjustments then ac but most you don't use or they need very minor adjustments in most cases.


Yes fov is huge. I think that's why vr is so much better. You immediately notice you see things in vr you never saw before. Even on tracks you knew well. In vr you can see the dips/bumps in corners where on a screen you didn't know why the car got upset when you touched it. Your perspective on how to take a corner changes too. It seems to me a screen always has your seating position wrong or at least the way you see it. With vr your seating postion is always correct like youre actually sitting in the car. Its really apparent in open wheels it feels like youre sitting on the ground because the seat is so low in the car.

morpwr
03-06-2017, 14:57
Yeah... I wasn't that impressed with the update when I tried it. I should go back and give it another shot--maybe this weekend. But I had basically came to the same conclusion you did--that it needs more time. They're on the right track, but the thing I wonder is whether it's too late for catch up. Reiza and 397 are taking old sims that used the be great and trying to make them modern. But SMS, Kunos, and iRacing have already created really good modern sims that are pushing the envelope in many areas, and they continue to develop the titles, bring more and more improvements and features. Can Reiza and 397 ever catch up? It seems like they're just too far behind. And Reiza saying no VR? What's that, other than a death wish? I mean... I've already pretty much given up on AMS. I usually load it up whenever a guest comes over and I don't feel like let them sweat in my VR headset (LOL). Instead of changing the graphic settings on my main VR sims, I just boot up AMS and let them try the sim in 2D. But other than that, I don't touch AMS or rF2.

I thought rF2's FFB was pretty good. That can sometimes make a sim feel easier to drive. I honestly thing PCars' FFB is one of the reasons it seems harder to drive than AC and others. Not because the physics are better, but because frictionless FFB has less subtle grip feel. rF2's braking is definitely more forgiving than AC, though, which might be one of the reasons it seems easier. IMO, AC has the least forgiving braking out of all my sims.


That's exactly the reason pcars is harder. I realized that along time ago with it. You learned to be fast on tracks you couldn't just drive them like you can in other sims for that reason. Its that one thing that really hurt pcars 1 other then that its great. Yeah that could be the reason in rf2 it just seemed overly easy to drive.

Haiden
03-06-2017, 15:47
Hi guys,

Obviously this thread is alive and kicking as ever before. Congrats! I also noticed that you all moved over to PC. (I'm itching to do so too...). I also saw that you got VR sets. Are you actually using it? I drive Dirt and Driveclub with a PSVR from time to time, and i really enjoy the immersion, but the low resolution of the glasses (or the games on PS4?) blurs the more distant objects too much for my taste. If the oculus rift or vive is definitely better, the PC attracts me even more...

I was absent from the forum and racing for quite a while. Just did a couple of runs today on Watkins Glen with my beloved Ruf GT3-8 - it felt awesome! I actually started to like Assetto Corsa kind of, i had a lot of fun to compare physics and FBB between AC and pCars. For sure, at least in my eyes, AC handles gras sand and curbs a bit better, which is easy to test, and the oversteering of the car is easier to introduce and control with the throttle... However, if you're really pushing on your correct racing line pCars car handling is really great and plausible.

What really puzzled me is that the FFB of both games feel really different, but both feel great in their own way. I kind of made my peace with pCars FFB (since i got used to not to think about the FFB any longer, due to my right fine out of the box experience with AC). I just dial in JS values and leave Relative Adjust to 1 (meaning i turn it of) - works for me quite nicely. On the other hand, what i really like about AC is that since the cars got good default FFB it's always amazing to me to change cars and experience their different feeling. While with pCars i have to "design" the FFB by myself, which takes away a bit the surprise of variations... I hope with pCars2 the devs will give the different cars plausible individual force feedback that reflects their handling in reality.

Hey, man. Welcome back. :) The VR graphics on PC obviously aren't as good as the 2D flat screen graphics, but they're probably a lot hell of a lot better than the PS4 graphics. VR is pretty demanding, so I'm sure a good quality PC with a high-end graphics cars would render VR better than a console. PCars and AC are already pushing the limits of console, especially PCars. Running VR has got to be a balancing act with sims and resource intensive games on consoles. I haven't tried VR on console, but the draw distances on PC don't seem to bother me. Even on new tracks or tracks I don't well, I have no problem spotting and learning new markers around the track. If you can buy the Rift at a local store, try that. That way, you can return it if you don't like it. It'll only take an hour or so for you to make up your mind. I knew immediately, within the first two laps...LOL. It's a totally different experience and the depth of the immersion totally makes up for the downgrade in graphics. Again, the graphics aren't terrible, just not as good as 2D, but I appreciate and enjoy having realistic depth perception more than I do running graphics on Ultra settings. Ultra settings don't make me faster and more consistent. Depth perception does. :)

Either way, you'll definitely enjoy the move to PC. In fact, that upgrade alone, will probably be more than enough to keep you busy, because it's a whole new experience. You can probably ride that wave to the holiday season, and then pick up an Oculus on sale. There are so many new sims to try on console. AC is amazing on console, but so is R3E. rF2 and AMS aren't really on my playlist anymore, but more because I'm kind of VR only now. If I was still on flat screen, I'd probably still have them in the mix. But AC is my go-to now that they've worked out their AI issues. Regardless, I think it was good to spend time in all the sims, experiencing different physics, tire, and FFB models really helped me zero in on what I like and don't like in general. And then... there's also... the mods. The mods! :D

Haiden
03-06-2017, 15:54
That's exactly the reason pcars is harder. I realized that along time ago with it. You learned to be fast on tracks you couldn't just drive them like you can in other sims for that reason. Its that one thing that really hurt pcars 1 other then that its great. Yeah that could be the reason in rf2 it just seemed overly easy to drive.

Have you tried the single player Challenges since the AI update? Holy crap! They're so much more fun and competitive now. Medium difficulty seems to be 90% with a 5% variance, and 80% aggression. I've tried several times to beat the McLaren 650 Gt3 challenge, and just can't take the leader. I work my way through the field, and then either los time trying to get around 3rd and 2nd, can't stick an overtake for 1st, or take 1st, just to lose it in the next lap. I've never had a five lap race be so enjoyably frustrating...LOL. I think I'm gonna spend some time knocking out Challenges now. :)

Also...the Buttkicker adds an amazing level of immersion. I had been racing it with open wheelers and really enjoying the experience. But when I tried that McLaren 650 GT3 Challenge, I almost creamed my pants on the first practice lap. Jesus F'ing Christ... that car sounds and FEELS incredible with a BK2. I've always loved the sound of it, but to be able to feel it like that is just insane. :boxing::D

tennenbaum
03-06-2017, 17:54
Glad to see you back its been awhile. To answer the question about vr and the pc. All I play in vr now and its awesome!!!! Ill never go back to a screen. On a pc vr is pretty close to what you would see on a screen with a better pc. If youre going to get a pc if you can swing it get the best gpu you can afford. I was going back and forth between the screen and vr on ac the other night and its pretty close. Close enough I don't its in any way bad. But they are still making improvements with software updates on oculus,steam and the games themselves. Its actually improved a lot just since I got mine. I actually went back to a 27 inch monitor because I wont ever use a monitor for gaming now. Vr and a buttkicker with a rig changes everything. The experience is so much better. You will actually forget your holding a different wheel then what you see on the screen. Ive done it many times try to reach for a button that isn't there.lol The other really big thing vr does is immediately make it apparent the ai in most games aren't as bad as you think.lol It so much easier when you can look around and just glance over at the mirrors like you would in real life. Its a lot easier to take the blame when you knew the guy behind was inside you and you still tried to take the corner.lol

As for other games wait until you get a pc. AC is still a lot better on pc but I think the ps4 is on the 10 tire model so it close. Thing is there are still things on pc you can use to improve the ffb that you cant on the consoles. R3e is in some aspects better but they are both really good. Its really a toss up between those two for me at this point. The ai in both are really good and make for some tight racing. R3e has more adjustments then ac but most you don't use or they need very minor adjustments in most cases.


Yes fov is huge. I think that's why vr is so much better. You immediately notice you see things in vr you never saw before. Even on tracks you knew well. In vr you can see the dips/bumps in corners where on a screen you didn't know why the car got upset when you touched it. Your perspective on how to take a corner changes too. It seems to me a screen always has your seating position wrong or at least the way you see it. With vr your seating postion is always correct like youre actually sitting in the car. Its really apparent in open wheels it feels like youre sitting on the ground because the seat is so low in the car.


Ha, i knew i won't get any more profound answers than here. Thanks morpw. I love to hear that VR got so good with a PC. I also think VR is really a quantum leap to racing sims. ...and other games.

tennenbaum
03-06-2017, 18:00
Hey, man. Welcome back. :) The VR graphics on PC obviously aren't as good as the 2D flat screen graphics, but they're probably a lot hell of a lot better than the PS4 graphics. VR is pretty demanding, so I'm sure a good quality PC with a high-end graphics cars would render VR better than a console. PCars and AC are already pushing the limits of console, especially PCars. Running VR has got to be a balancing act with sims and resource intensive games on consoles. I haven't tried VR on console, but the draw distances on PC don't seem to bother me. Even on new tracks or tracks I don't well, I have no problem spotting and learning new markers around the track. If you can buy the Rift at a local store, try that. That way, you can return it if you don't like it. It'll only take an hour or so for you to make up your mind. I knew immediately, within the first two laps...LOL. It's a totally different experience and the depth of the immersion totally makes up for the downgrade in graphics. Again, the graphics aren't terrible, just not as good as 2D, but I appreciate and enjoy having realistic depth perception more than I do running graphics on Ultra settings. Ultra settings don't make me faster and more consistent. Depth perception does. :)

Either way, you'll definitely enjoy the move to PC. In fact, that upgrade alone, will probably be more than enough to keep you busy, because it's a whole new experience. You can probably ride that wave to the holiday season, and then pick up an Oculus on sale. There are so many new sims to try on console. AC is amazing on console, but so is R3E. rF2 and AMS aren't really on my playlist anymore, but more because I'm kind of VR only now. If I was still on flat screen, I'd probably still have them in the mix. But AC is my go-to now that they've worked out their AI issues. Regardless, I think it was good to spend time in all the sims, experiencing different physics, tire, and FFB models really helped me zero in on what I like and don't like in general. And then... there's also... the mods. The mods! :D

:) Can't wait... Thanks Haiden!

morpwr
04-06-2017, 14:45
Have you tried the single player Challenges since the AI update? Holy crap! They're so much more fun and competitive now. Medium difficulty seems to be 90% with a 5% variance, and 80% aggression. I've tried several times to beat the McLaren 650 Gt3 challenge, and just can't take the leader. I work my way through the field, and then either los time trying to get around 3rd and 2nd, can't stick an overtake for 1st, or take 1st, just to lose it in the next lap. I've never had a five lap race be so enjoyably frustrating...LOL. I think I'm gonna spend some time knocking out Challenges now. :)

Also...the Buttkicker adds an amazing level of immersion. I had been racing it with open wheelers and really enjoying the experience. But when I tried that McLaren 650 GT3 Challenge, I almost creamed my pants on the first practice lap. Jesus F'ing Christ... that car sounds and FEELS incredible with a BK2. I've always loved the sound of it, but to be able to feel it like that is just insane. :boxing::D


I have and yes I think they are a lot more difficult. Some of the ones I hadn't got on alien yet and retried them. I cant even get 3rd now. Its more difficult to pass and you just don't have time to get it done unless youre way faster then the ai. The lmp challenges I was getting close actually ran out of gas a couple times in 2nd when closing in on first.:mad: Now I'm lucky to get 5th. I do like doing the challenges though. Driving different cars and tracks.Ive actually found some cars that are really fun to drive like that.

The bk adds so much. Especially being able to feel the rpms climb you don't really need to watch the tach. You can tell when they start to flatten out just like a real car. Simvibe has got to be really cool using 4 of them.

hkraft300
04-06-2017, 16:28
Does simvibe send ffb signal or audio signal to the transducers?
I've raced a rig at a sim race centre years ago. Had 4 point shakers. Awesome. Don't know what they were running though. Rf1 days.

morpwr
04-06-2017, 17:52
Does simvibe send ffb signal or audio signal to the transducers?
I've raced a rig at a sim race centre years ago. Had 4 point shakers. Awesome. Don't know what they were running though. Rf1 days.

If I'm not mistaken simvibe doesn't use audio to run the buttkickers thats why they have ones built specifically for them(theres has extra dampening) and don't recommend the same maximum wattage when using simvibe.

hkraft300
04-06-2017, 18:39
SMS direction of pure rack forces for ffb makes sense if you have something like simvibe going. SoP signals at the back, party at the front.
Though plenty of people do add sop to the wheel ffb.

poirqc
04-06-2017, 20:23
If i'm not mistaken, simvibe does't actually offload part of the FFB. So you still send "everything" to the steering wheel.

With that said, you could probably put very little of SoP in the steering wheel and just boost it in simvibe.*

*(I don't have a buttkicker, i may talk through my hat)

GrimeyDog
04-06-2017, 21:36
Fanatec Has a DD wheel Thread Open on the fanatec Web site!!!

Seems the wheel is still Gonna a bit of a wait though...They are only taking surveys about it---> Maybe next Year/ summer 2018:confused:

Haiden
04-06-2017, 21:46
Fanatec Has a DD wheel Thread Open on the fanatec Web site!!!

Seems the wheel is still Gonna a bit of a wait though...They are only taking surveys about it---> Maybe next Year/ summer 2018:confused:


Yeah... and the really interesting thing is, they said it's just the first in a line of upcoming high-end products. :)


We are developing more than one base. The main difference will be the maximum torque. The torque range is starting at a competitive level far above the CS WB V2.5 and ranges up to a level most of you will not be able to use for a long time. It will not replace the CS WB V2.5 and we will keep this model as the best non-DD solution on the market.

The DD wheel bases are the first products of a complete series of hardcore products which are positioned above the ClubSport series. This series will include wheel bases, steering wheels, pedals, shifters and handbrakes in the (very) long run.

All with an anticipated Q4 2017 launch. Yes!!!! I know what I'm getting for Christmas...LOL

And new pedals and rims, too? What???? I'm glad I waited on the wheel base. Pedals, too. I was planning to get a set of Heusinkveld pedals, but I'm curious to see what Fanatec releases, since this new line is to be positioned above the Clubsport.

morpwr
04-06-2017, 22:16
If i'm not mistaken, simvibe does't actually offload part of the FFB. So you still send "everything" to the steering wheel.

With that said, you could probably put very little of SoP in the steering wheel and just boost it in simvibe.*

*(I don't have a buttkicker, i may talk through my hat)


You have to get one they add so much to sim racing.

GrimeyDog
04-06-2017, 23:37
Yeah... and the really interesting thing is, they said it's just the first in a line of upcoming high-end products. :)



All with an anticipated Q4 2017 launch. Yes!!!! I know what I'm getting for Christmas...LOL

And new pedals and rims, too? What???? I'm glad I waited on the wheel base. Pedals, too. I was planning to get a set of Heusinkveld pedals, but I'm curious to see what Fanatec releases, since this new line is to be positioned above the Clubsport.

I am Eager to see what they bring forth also!!! I may just invest in buying it also...The part that got Me was that they said it would be Xbox1 compatible--->I dunno if i will get first batch though i want to see the reviews and maybe even hold off for PS4 compatible DD!!! also I'm not worried about the v2/v2.5 i can get Great Resale on them if i decide to sell either 1:yes:

4th Quarter starts Oct 2017!!! hmmmm just a tad bit of a wait---> i will definitely keep current on that thread to see what DD Tec advancements are made.

poirqc
05-06-2017, 00:42
You have to get one they add so much to sim racing.

There's 1 reason why i don't upgrade my G27. Regardless of how good my rig could be, i'll still be racing alone. It gets boring after a while. As much as i would like to race against AI, the thrill isn't there. I can't get the fun edge that i get from racing agaisnt people.

I know, i should join a league. But it doesn't fit in the schedule. :(

morpwr
05-06-2017, 01:22
There's 1 reason why i don't upgrade my G27. Regardless of how good my rig could be, i'll still be racing alone. It gets boring after a while. As much as i would like to race against AI, the thrill isn't there. I can't get the fun edge that i get from racing agaisnt people.

I know, i should join a league. But it doesn't fit in the schedule. :(


Same reasons for me I just like the ease of racing anything anytime and with summer here and the kids playing sports its tough. I'm surprised you don't like the ai in ac and r3e. They are really competitive now and its tough to tell they are ai in most cases. They will chase you down and take the position back if you give them a chance and run you door to door. As long as I'm improving I have fun but I guess if I ever get to the point I can beat the ai on 100 in most games or 120 in r3e on a regular basis ill look at it different. But for now those two games give me my racing fix.

poirqc
05-06-2017, 01:42
Same reasons for me I just like the ease of racing anything anytime and with summer here and the kids playing sports its tough. I'm surprised you don't like the ai in ac and r3e. They are really competitive now and its tough to tell they are ai in most cases. They will chase you down and take the position back if you give them a chance and run you door to door. As long as I'm improving I have fun but I guess if I ever get to the point I can beat the ai on 100 in most games or 120 in r3e on a regular basis ill look at it different. But for now those two games give me my racing fix.

I don't have anything against AC or R3E AIs(or pCars most of the time). I just can't get across the fact that it's not a human. I would like to get thrilled by it. How could i say it, the magic isn't there. :)

morpwr
05-06-2017, 01:49
I don't have anything against AC or R3E AIs(or pCars most of the time). I just can't get across the fact that it's not a human. I would like to get thrilled by it. How could i say it, the magic isn't there. :)
a


That doesn't bother me as long as they act like they are. The old ac ai not so much. Way to easy to pass in most cases and predictable but not anymore. They make you work for it. So as long as they continue to push me to improve I'm ok with it. Plus I don't have to worry about the bad parts of racing humans online. But to each their own.:)

poirqc
05-06-2017, 02:17
a


That doesn't bother me as long as they act like they are. The old ac ai not so much. Way to easy to pass in most cases and predictable but not anymore. They make you work for it. So as long as they continue to push me to improve I'm ok with it. Plus I don't have to worry about the bad parts of racing humans online. But to each their own.:)

The so called magic i'm talking about happens so rarely, when your not a league, that you could say i'm chasing a fairy tale! I understand 100% why people would run AI most of the time. Well, i just got fish tailed as i crossed the finish live by another driver. I mean, the bad part happens a lot more frequently than the good part! You could say i'm a masochist. I wrote a guide to FFB in pCars after all! :D

I use AI occasionally, when there's nothing of interest online.

But man, chasing someone, for couple laps, and getting ahead 1 turn before finish line, the heart pounding! It's just awesome!

morpwr
05-06-2017, 10:39
The so called magic i'm talking about happens so rarely, when your not a league, that you could say i'm chasing a fairy tale! I understand 100% why people would run AI most of the time. Well, i just got fish tailed as i crossed the finish live by another driver. I mean, the bad part happens a lot more frequently than the good part! You could say i'm a masochist. I wrote a guide to FFB in pCars after all! :D

I use AI occasionally, when there's nothing of interest online.

But man, chasing someone, for couple laps, and getting ahead 1 turn before finish line, the heart pounding! It's just awesome!


I guess its because I don't think about it being ai when racing only another car in front of me I need to get by. But if you get the ai level set right you can have a lot of races like that. Ive had quite a few where it was last lap and corner to take first. Then racing to the finish line. Yes you are a masochist ive seen the car track combinations you pick.lol

Olijke Poffer
05-06-2017, 11:44
I guess its because I don't think about it being ai when racing only another car in front of me I need to get by. But if you get the ai level set right you can have a lot of races like that. Ive had quite a few where it was last lap and corner to take first. Then racing to the finish line. Yes you are a masochist ive seen the car track combinations you pick.lol

Agree 100%. On which level do you have the AI? Personly I have nice races with the AI set to 89%.. so I'm not a good racer by al means but With this level I have a great time. I have to fight for every cm on the track.
Love racing with the AI. They even are always online when I have the time. :p

tennenbaum
05-06-2017, 12:36
Quote Originally Posted by poirqc View Post
...I just can't get across the fact that it's not a human. I would like to get thrilled by it. How could i say it, the magic isn't there.

Hhm, yes racing against friends is the best ( i enjoyed our league last year a lot) but difficult to schedule. I wonder why none of the big dev houses spent a really good thought on it, how to solve the problem, that after i while the magic disappears when you race alone. But i recently i talked to friend of mine, heeled enough to drive the Porsche Super Sports Cup for years, he even got tired in reality with his sport... and you guess why...? ...he said, it got too competitive ;-)

I'm just bringing that up, cause what's a problem IRL is a problem with sims. I'd be great if a game developer could come up with an idea how to give you this feeling to be part of a community, solve the scheduling issue, and finds a game mechanic beyond what we know so far in the gaming world as in reality. It gonna be interesting how Gran Turismo will tackle this challenge. I guess whoever finds the recipe will dominate the racing sim scene.

Personally i'd wish an open world racer with original cities: New York, Havanna, etc. and some great world famous scenery roads, and some round tracks, BUT with the same good sim physics as in AC or pCars. Plus some muscle cars. The entire thing in VR, with factions who can accomplish (asynchronous) missions that are based on a new (to be found) game mechanic. Of course that sounds like a baby boy from Forza Horizon, The Crew and the Driver... but none of these games really nailed it down to my taste. I think it needs a collaboration of a team that can do the physics, a team that can create atmosphere like Naughty dog, and bunch of petrol heads that by chance have a talent for intriguing game design. Not to forget the team that is capable to wirite proper net-code, and an editorial team that weaves a real news and ESL world around it. Briefly: I new kind of racing format. (When Ecclestone invented the Formula 1 it ws a new format too...) Sooner or later a new gifted guy like Kaz Yamauchi or Hideo Kojima must enter the stage with something new and revolutionary in the racing game world. It's about time...

Haiden
05-06-2017, 13:06
There's 1 reason why i don't upgrade my G27. Regardless of how good my rig could be, i'll still be racing alone. It gets boring after a while. As much as i would like to race against AI, the thrill isn't there. I can't get the fun edge that i get from racing agaisnt people.

I know, i should join a league. But it doesn't fit in the schedule. :(

RaceDepartment has a lot races going in multiple time zones. There's not season commitment required. You just sign up for whatever racer you can attend. For $10 a year, it's worth checking out, if you're an online only type.



I guess its because I don't think about it being ai when racing only another car in front of me I need to get by. But if you get the ai level set right you can have a lot of races like that. Ive had quite a few where it was last lap and corner to take first. Then racing to the finish line. Yes you are a masochist ive seen the car track combinations you pick.lol


Agree 100%. On which level do you have the AI? Personly I have nice races with the AI set to 89%.. so I'm not a good racer by al means but With this level I have a great time. I have to fight for every cm on the track.
Love racing with the AI. They even are always online when I have the time. :p

PCars and AC's old AI is just not fun to race against. One was insane, the other was just too shy. But R3E and AC now have great, human-like AI. I don't understand the idea of the thrill not being there. Unless you're beating the AI without a sweat at 100/100+, then it's still competitive racing. I forget whether it AI or human now in AC, and just treat it the same, so I don't develop any bad habits and take them online. I race both online and offline in AC, and both are equally exciting to me. I also don't see much of the "getting crashed out" online in AC. Most of the servers are fixed, running the same car/track combo, so the drivers mostly know the track. I've seen the occasional crasher, but tbh... Ive gotten much better at avoiding them, especially when you come up on them sulking as your about to lap them. That's a bad sign right there...LOL.

Haiden
05-06-2017, 13:14
I am Eager to see what they bring forth also!!! I may just invest in buying it also...The part that got Me was that they said it would be Xbox1 compatible--->I dunno if i will get first batch though i want to see the reviews and maybe even hold off for PS4 compatible DD!!! also I'm not worried about the v2/v2.5 i can get Great Resale on them if i decide to sell either 1:yes:

4th Quarter starts Oct 2017!!! hmmmm just a tad bit of a wait---> i will definitely keep current on that thread to see what DD Tec advancements are made.

From what they said in the announcement, they're planning to make it a substantial improvement in both strength and fidelity. Seems like the only real question will be build quality. I don't really care about PS compatibility. Xb1 would be nice, but it's not required. I kind of feel like DD is a bit of overkill for console anyway. I seriously doubt Forza, Forza Horizon, or GT Sport will take advantage of DD level fidelity and response. Even the V2 was borderline overkill for consoles. I didn't realize how underutilized by wheel was until I switched to PC.

And yeah... Q4 is only four months away. Wonder if they'll hit this year, or if they'll get pushed back. If they do hit this year, I think I'll try to restrain myself until early next year. I'm curious to see the build quality, before I buy one. But, depending on the price, I might not be able to keep my inner child in check. :)

GrimeyDog
05-06-2017, 14:44
If you Judge by the what wheel Rims do we want thread the DD May Not Hit until Next Summer because we Dont Have any New CSW wheels or Hub Rims Yet and that thread has been going for a few Months Now:hopelessness:--->unless they were taking Notes on what Wheel Rims to Make for the DD wheel:confused: But im tbinking they are Still taking Notes as to what features we want the DD wheel to have so it may be a while---> But hey they Might surprise us:p ---> I will more than likely wait depending on price and Models---> It dont make sense to go Fanatec DD and get the Low End DD wheel if your Coming from a V2/2.5 ---> If i do it i will Go Mid to Top tier---> But as Noted i Need to see Pricing but Most importantly the Reviews before i jump in.

poirqc
05-06-2017, 16:11
Hhm, yes racing against friends is the best ( i enjoyed our league last year a lot) but difficult to schedule. I wonder why none of the big dev houses spent a really good thought on it, how to solve the problem, that after i while the magic disappears when you race alone. But i recently i talked to friend of mine, heeled enough to drive the Porsche Super Sports Cup for years, he even got tired in reality with his sport... and you guess why...? ...he said, it got too competitive ;-)

I'm just bringing that up, cause what's a problem IRL is a problem with sims. I'd be great if a game developer could come up with an idea how to give you this feeling to be part of a community, solve the scheduling issue, and finds a game mechanic beyond what we know so far in the gaming world as in reality. It gonna be interesting how Gran Turismo will tackle this challenge. I guess whoever finds the recipe will dominate the racing sim scene.

Personally i'd wish an open world racer with original cities: New York, Havanna, etc. and some great world famous scenery roads, and some round tracks, BUT with the same good sim physics as in AC or pCars. Plus some muscle cars. The entire thing in VR, with factions who can accomplish (asynchronous) missions that are based on a new (to be found) game mechanic. Of course that sounds like a baby boy from Forza Horizon, The Crew and the Driver... but none of these games really nailed it down to my taste. I think it needs a collaboration of a team that can do the physics, a team that can create atmosphere like Naughty dog, and bunch of petrol heads that by chance have a talent for intriguing game design. Not to forget the team that is capable to wirite proper net-code, and an editorial team that weaves a real news and ESL world around it. Briefly: I new kind of racing format. (When Ecclestone invented the Formula 1 it ws a new format too...) Sooner or later a new gifted guy like Kaz Yamauchi or Hideo Kojima must enter the stage with something new and revolutionary in the racing game world. It's about time...

The summer is magic, is magic, oh oh oh, the summer is magic, you have to imagine... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP8AEUFsgYM)

Like all things in life, the next step is often the one that make you put an activity aside. At some point, the time needed to reach that step imply you need to sacrifice everything else...

With a game like you just described, nobody would need to buy sports cars anymore! :D


RaceDepartment has a lot races going in multiple time zones. There's not season commitment required. You just sign up for whatever racer you can attend. For $10 a year, it's worth checking out, if you're an online only type.

PCars and AC's old AI is just not fun to race against. One was insane, the other was just too shy. But R3E and AC now have great, human-like AI. I don't understand the idea of the thrill not being there. Unless you're beating the AI without a sweat at 100/100+, then it's still competitive racing. I forget whether it AI or human now in AC, and just treat it the same, so I don't develop any bad habits and take them online. I race both online and offline in AC, and both are equally exciting to me. I also don't see much of the "getting crashed out" online in AC. Most of the servers are fixed, running the same car/track combo, so the drivers mostly know the track. I've seen the occasional crasher, but tbh... Ive gotten much better at avoiding them, especially when you come up on them sulking as your about to lap them. That's a bad sign right there...LOL.

Personnaly, i find that the ratio of wrecker/good drivers in public lobbies is the same for AC and pCars. There's 1 thing is that is equally distributed across humanity! :D

I could have a look at the RD 10$ thing.

I remember some years ago, when karting at the local track was more popular. We could go there, without an appointment and there would always be other drivers on the track beside our small group. Some fast, some slow. But it was wreck free, for the most part.

I wish it could be that on online races... But that's just whisfull thinking.

As for pretending stuff about AI, my brain understand all of it. It works on paper. There's just a small thing somewhere that spoils it. I wish i would have the mindset to play game with the AIs. But at some point, everything falls off and i just don't care.

Haiden
05-06-2017, 16:21
If you Judge by the what wheel Rims do we want thread the DD May Not Hit until Next Summer because we Dont Have any New CSW wheels or Hub Rims Yet and that thread has been going for a few Months Now:hopelessness:--->unless they were taking Notes on what Wheel Rims to Make for the DD wheel:confused: But im tbinking they are Still taking Notes as to what features we want the DD wheel to have so it may be a while---> But hey they Might surprise us:p ---> I will more than likely wait depending on price and Models---> It dont make sense to go Fanatec DD and get the Low End DD wheel if your Coming from a V2/2.5 ---> If i do it i will Go Mid to Top tier---> But as Noted i Need to see Pricing but Most importantly the Reviews before i jump in.

I don't think they're going to wait on rims. A new high-end rims set is coming, but all wheels in the current rim set will work fine with the new bases. So they can give them new rims and launch the new bases. Also, he says the DD bases are going to be the first products in the new hardcore series line. I think they're releasing more than one model at launch. If they didn't, it would hurt sales, because people would just wait for the next one to compare. With the main difference between models being torque, and the entry model's being set well above the V2.5, I think the launch line will be more than enough. They even said, the higher end models will have a torque output that most sim racers won't be able to use for a long time. That makes the new line sound insane! :)

morpwr
05-06-2017, 21:53
Agree 100%. On which level do you have the AI? Personly I have nice races with the AI set to 89%.. so I'm not a good racer by al means but With this level I have a great time. I have to fight for every cm on the track.
Love racing with the AI. They even are always online when I have the time. :p

Depends on what game r3e I'm usually around 110-115,in ac usually around 90-95 I was beating the ai challenges before the last update on alien(100) but they seem to be a lot harder now since the update, pcars I don't really know because different classes and cars are all over the place. I know the lotus 49 I can smoke the ai on 100 in a 15 lap race starting last but then some I'm 90 or even 85. So you aren't doing bad just keep at it and try to learn something every time. Sometimes even little things like being in a different gear through a corner add up too a lot but you cant always do it if your side by side. Sometimes it even feels slower but it isn't if you watch the deltas.

morpwr
05-06-2017, 22:01
I don't think they're going to wait on rims. A new high-end rims set is coming, but all wheels in the current rim set will work fine with the new bases. So they can give them new rims and launch the new bases. Also, he says the DD bases are going to be the first products in the new hardcore series line. I think they're releasing more than one model at launch. If they didn't, it would hurt sales, because people would just wait for the next one to compare. With the main difference between models being torque, and the entry model's being set well above the V2.5, I think the launch line will be more than enough. They even said, the higher end models will have a torque output that most sim racers won't be able to use for a long time. That makes the new line sound insane! :)



Are they going to go for a 40plus nm wheel like the 50nm on you tube? No matter what its got to be good for sim racing. Competition breeds better and more plentiful things no matter what they come up with. With accuforce dropping the price it sort of sets a price point for them to shoot for to be competitive. Obviously the high end super strong could fall more toward the bodnar price range but it will get interesting. New higher end pedal,shifters could force other companies to do the same. Its obvious many of us are willing to spend the money for a better experience.:cool:

morpwr
06-06-2017, 11:00
Haiden, Did you try any of the challenges yet? I think there is something going on with them since the ai update. I was beating most of them on alien and since then even the ones I was close on where you finished second or third now I'm 5-6. So I tried something last night it seems the ai level got shifted somehow I think on those. On easy I'm roughly 12 seconds faster then them on hard I'm running the same times as them. Problem is if the front cars get a jump which they usually do because they are running clean laps youll never have a chance to catch them. 12 seconds seems like an huge jump between easy and hard.

Haiden
06-06-2017, 11:55
Haiden, Did you try any of the challenges yet? I think there is something going on with them since the ai update. I was beating most of them on alien and since then even the ones I was close on where you finished second or third now I'm 5-6. So I tried something last night it seems the ai level got shifted somehow I think on those. On easy I'm roughly 12 seconds faster then them on hard I'm running the same times as them. Problem is if the front cars get a jump which they usually do because they are running clean laps youll never have a chance to catch them. 12 seconds seems like an huge jump between easy and hard.

LOL.... Dude, that's what I was talking about. It's hard as hell now. You were making me all confused talking about beating the AI on alien. I was like, what??? It depends on the class and track, though. Some car/track combo, I competitive on hard, getting podiums, and with a little practice and tuning, I know I'll eventually take 1st. Others combos, medium is even a challenge, and then once I do beat the AI on medium, I start the hard level for that event, and have to fight for 6th or 7th...LOL

But then yesterday, I tried the Toyota LMP hybrid at Silverstone, and smoked the AI on Alien by 6 seconds. Tried the Audi LMP event at Spa shortly after, and was only competitive at hard. :confused: The difference didn't seem odd, though. More like I just needed more practice with the car/track and maybe a bit of tuning. I was running the stock tune with the Audi, which probably made a difference.

That's something else I noticed, since the update, setup tuning is more important. It's hard to be competitive in Hard and Alien levels without a little tuning. Whether it's Aero, Roll Bars, Brake Pressure, Tire Pressure, Ride Height, Differential, or Camber, it pays to do some tuning and find the right balance for the car/track and weather conditions. I'm finding a lot of the cars benefit from a little additional negative camber. One or two clicks can make a big difference, especially on high speed tracks where you have to decrease aero for straight speed.

Are you using Factory settings for ABS and TC? I didn't even know there was a factory setting in AC (is that new). I just remember it being On/Off. I've had those set to Off since I started playing AC. But I tried factory yesterday, and will probably leave it. It works like PCars--enabling whichever control the car has in RL. As part of my initial setup, I turn them both down to Off, and then only activate them if needed. I've only tried each with a setting of 1. That's all that was needed to feel the effect. I don't like ABS, but TC=1 on a couple cars actually helped bring me into podium contention on Hard.

Also, I don't know if you noticed, but after selecting an event. If you go to the summary tab, and check the Opponent info, you can see what the AI settings are for each level. IIRC, Alien was Difficulty=98, Variance=5, and Aggression=98. The current difference has to be the aggression. 98 is pretty damn high, coupled with 98 difficulty, and I can see why Alien is so hard to beat...LOL

I agree with you, though. The leaders will get away from you if you get bogged down. The start is way more important now, because that's your chance to get close to them. The variance setting stacks the grid nicely. Once I was in a race where the P2 car actually had the better pace. But he didn't pass the leader until the last two laps. I was trailing behind them, thinking I could overtake both in the last few laps, then suddenly P2 made his move, passed the leader, and then took off. I was stuck trying to get around the new P2 for whole lap. By the time I did, the gap to P1 had increased, and there was no way I was going to catch him. The events are great when it's multi-class, and either you or the AI run into slow traffic as you lap the field. You have to plan your passes, because if you get bogged down behind them, the AI in your class will catch up. Or vice-versa; it can also work to your advantage sometimes. :) All in all... I'm still really impressed with the update. Finding new things all the time. And the new behaviors are excellent. Even with high aggression, the AI behavior is realistic and they adhere to etiquette. :)

Edit: I once read that AI times gain/lose about 0.5 - 1.0 second per difficulty increment. The difference between Easy and hard is 80 vs 95, I believe. So that would fit. The trick is getting a good start and not letting the leader get away from you, just like in RL...LOL.

morpwr
06-06-2017, 22:12
LOL.... Dude, that's what I was talking about. It's hard as hell now. You were making me all confused talking about beating the AI on alien. I was like, what??? It depends on the class and track, though. Some car/track combo, I competitive on hard, getting podiums, and with a little practice and tuning, I know I'll eventually take 1st. Others combos, medium is even a challenge, and then once I do beat the AI on medium, I start the hard level for that event, and have to fight for 6th or 7th...LOL

But then yesterday, I tried the Toyota LMP hybrid at Silverstone, and smoked the AI on Alien by 6 seconds. Tried the Audi LMP event at Spa shortly after, and was only competitive at hard. :confused: The difference didn't seem odd, though. More like I just needed more practice with the car/track and maybe a bit of tuning. I was running the stock tune with the Audi, which probably made a difference.

That's something else I noticed, since the update, setup tuning is more important. It's hard to be competitive in Hard and Alien levels without a little tuning. Whether it's Aero, Roll Bars, Brake Pressure, Tire Pressure, Ride Height, Differential, or Camber, it pays to do some tuning and find the right balance for the car/track and weather conditions. I'm finding a lot of the cars benefit from a little additional negative camber. One or two clicks can make a big difference, especially on high speed tracks where you have to decrease aero for straight speed.

Are you using Factory settings for ABS and TC? I didn't even know there was a factory setting in AC (is that new). I just remember it being On/Off. I've had those set to Off since I started playing AC. But I tried factory yesterday, and will probably leave it. It works like PCars--enabling whichever control the car has in RL. As part of my initial setup, I turn them both down to Off, and then only activate them if needed. I've only tried each with a setting of 1. That's all that was needed to feel the effect. I don't like ABS, but TC=1 on a couple cars actually helped bring me into podium contention on Hard.

Also, I don't know if you noticed, but after selecting an event. If you go to the summary tab, and check the Opponent info, you can see what the AI settings are for each level. IIRC, Alien was Difficulty=98, Variance=5, and Aggression=98. The current difference has to be the aggression. 98 is pretty damn high, coupled with 98 difficulty, and I can see why Alien is so hard to beat...LOL

I agree with you, though. The leaders will get away from you if you get bogged down. The start is way more important now, because that's your chance to get close to them. The variance setting stacks the grid nicely. Once I was in a race where the P2 car actually had the better pace. But he didn't pass the leader until the last two laps. I was trailing behind them, thinking I could overtake both in the last few laps, then suddenly P2 made his move, passed the leader, and then took off. I was stuck trying to get around the new P2 for whole lap. By the time I did, the gap to P1 had increased, and there was no way I was going to catch him. The events are great when it's multi-class, and either you or the AI run into slow traffic as you lap the field. You have to plan your passes, because if you get bogged down behind them, the AI in your class will catch up. Or vice-versa; it can also work to your advantage sometimes. :) All in all... I'm still really impressed with the update. Finding new things all the time. And the new behaviors are excellent. Even with high aggression, the AI behavior is realistic and they adhere to etiquette. :)

Edit: I once read that AI times gain/lose about 0.5 - 1.0 second per difficulty increment. The difference between Easy and hard is 80 vs 95, I believe. So that would fit. The trick is getting a good start and not letting the leader get away from you, just like in RL...LOL.

Yeah we were saying the same thing on a different page .lol I think the tcs and abs has been there but I just turned it off on day one. Ill have to go back and try it again. Usually it just slows me down in most games but maybe if it worked right? Agree on the starts. In the past it was easy to pass 3 or 4 cars on the start now its harder and even more important though. I did ask on the a/c forum and yes they are definitely harder because the update made the ai smarter which also made them faster along with the aggression setting. It was just a shock because I was knocking them off on alien and sudeenly it was holy hell these are hard now.lol Definitely agree with having to tune too on the harder settings. Unless somebody is ungodly fast I don't see how you could beat those without it. Even on medium you at least need to set tire pressure and fuel load. Still a great update ill just have to work harder now.:)

Haiden
07-06-2017, 01:32
Yeah we were saying the same thing on a different page .lol I think the tcs and abs has been there but I just turned it off on day one. Ill have to go back and try it again. Usually it just slows me down in most games but maybe if it worked right? Agree on the starts. In the past it was easy to pass 3 or 4 cars on the start now its harder and even more important though. I did ask on the a/c forum and yes they are definitely harder because the update made the ai smarter which also made them faster along with the aggression setting. It was just a shock because I was knocking them off on alien and sudeenly it was holy hell these are hard now.lol Definitely agree with having to tune too on the harder settings. Unless somebody is ungodly fast I don't see how you could beat those without it. Even on medium you at least need to set tire pressure and fuel load. Still a great update ill just have to work harder now.:)

Same. Once you know how to brake, ABS is a lap killer. Sometimes I actually want or need to lockup for a split second. On the other hand, unlike ABS, TC is just doing something I would normally do anyway, adjusting power to maintain grip. I sometimes find it useful for shorter competitive races, when you don't have a lot of time to close the gap. It let's you focus more on hitting your entry line and carrying the right amount of speed into the corner, so can power the hell out and stay with the cars ahead. If you get a little ambitious with the throttle, a click of TC can give you a fraction more time to sense and catch it. :)

morpwr
07-06-2017, 01:55
Same. Once you know how to brake, ABS is a lap killer. Sometimes I actually want or need to lockup for a split second. On the other hand, unlike ABS, TC is just doing something I would normally do anyway, adjusting power to maintain grip. I sometimes find it useful for shorter competitive races, when you don't have a lot of time to close the gap. It let's you focus more on hitting your entry line and carrying the right amount of speed into the corner, so can power the hell out and stay with the cars ahead. If you get a little ambitious with the throttle, a click of TC can give you a fraction more time to sense and catch it. :)


I need more testing but I tried a few challenges at factory settings. I did the lotus one which feels like the car is all front brake without it and it felt a ton better. I was faster. You could actually feel it working correctly too which was good. I knew when I got in too hot but still had the brake set at max pressure so I did stop faster then without it. Granted that's probably one of the worst cars ive encountered as far as braking goes. Did my usual spa race (man I'm really starting to love that track)with the Porsche and with tcs at factory I could use first gear where normally id be in second for fear of spinning all the way thru or off the corner. Especially the last corner onto the straight. I don't know there could be something to using it if you use it right. I did finish better then I had in all the challenges I tried too. Ive got to try some faster cars and see what happens. Ive always been just turn everything off because normally in a game it didn't work right but I cant believe they use it race cars if it doesn't help. Plus less to worry about if it doesn't help irl. Definitely be playing with this some more...

Haiden
07-06-2017, 03:51
I need more testing but I tried a few challenges at factory settings. I did the lotus one which feels like the car is all front brake without it and it felt a ton better. I was faster. You could actually feel it working correctly too which was good. I knew when I got in too hot but still had the brake set at max pressure so I did stop faster then without it. Granted that's probably one of the worst cars ive encountered as far as braking goes. Did my usual spa race (man I'm really starting to love that track)with the Porsche and with tcs at factory I could use first gear where normally id be in second for fear of spinning all the way thru or off the corner. Especially the last corner onto the straight. I don't know there could be something to using it if you use it right. I did finish better then I had in all the challenges I tried too. Ive got to try some faster cars and see what happens. Ive always been just turn everything off because normally in a game it didn't work right but I cant believe they use it race cars if it doesn't help. Plus less to worry about if it doesn't help irl. Definitely be playing with this some more...

It's definitely a car/class dependent, and probably a little to do with driving style as well. I don't use it on any high down force cars, but now that I found the setting, I like having the option with road and some of the slower GT classes, especially the heavier cars carrying more mass. But like you said, it's not always implemented right in every sim.

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 10:33
These were My thoughts when we were talking about how or why DD is better...I'm still on the fence about whats and whys other than its more Powerful Check Thomas answer

morpwr
07-06-2017, 10:59
It's definitely a car/class dependent, and probably a little to do with driving style as well. I don't use it on any high down force cars, but now that I found the setting, I like having the option with road and some of the slower GT classes, especially the heavier cars carrying more mass. But like you said, it's not always implemented right in every sim.

I have to say I was pretty impressed with the abs in AC. I could hear the tires skipping like you would in real life. It doesn't make up for poor driving you can still blow a corner if you brake too hard or too late. I tried it too see. I'm going to try some faster cars tonight and see what happens with the tcs. I wonder if the ai still uses the tcs and abs if you don't? I always wondered how the ai were just slightly faster then me coming off a tight corner on some of the tracks. But if they still use tcs regardless of what you did that would make sense. There are some corners especially with higher hp cars its really sketchy trying to use first gear without tcs. Depending on diff settings you either light up the inside tire or take the chance of getting it sideways coming off. I still think you should learn to drive without it first for sure because ideally you don't want the abs going off or just barely working if youre braking right and you shouldn't be relying on the computer to control the throttle but there are some things they can just do faster/better then we can.lol May just be one of those things old school me has to learn to accept.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 11:27
These were My thoughts when we were talking about how or why DD is better...I'm still on the fence about whats and whys other than its more Powerful Check Thomas answer

IDK... In their initial post they said the new wheel line would have a torque range far beyond the V.2.5. And, like he says in his reply, torque and speed make a big difference in terms how you respond and handle the wheel.

If you're on the fence about it, no need to come down. Wait it out, if you want. Me? I'm buying one. And I'll get the pedals and a couple new rims, too, when they come out. :) I've already read enough to know the difference, and if Fanatec hadn't announced their version, an Accuforce would still be on my upgrade ticket, anyway.

His comment doesn't really say anything that isn't already known. But by "doing it right" I take that to mean that they are doing it right. How could they not be? The new product line will not survive the hype if it isn't significantly better. If the reviews come out that say the DD is only a marginal improvement over the V2.5, even though it costs $1000, who the hell would buy it? Either the DD wheel will be huge step forward, or, if not, it will be evident in the pricing. I'd say, if it's only $500-$750, there's a good chance the improvement is marginal. But if the pricing is $800+, then I don't think they'll have to do better than marginal to get people to pay double. And since, they're talking about a range of new DD models, I do find it hard to believe that they're going to make two or three new wheel bases models that are just fractional improvement of the V2.5. What sense would that ever make? :)

Haiden
07-06-2017, 11:44
I have to say I was pretty impressed with the abs in AC. I could hear the tires skipping like you would in real life. It doesn't make up for poor driving you can still blow a corner if you brake too hard or too late. I tried it too see. I'm going to try some faster cars tonight and see what happens with the tcs. I wonder if the ai still uses the tcs and abs if you don't? I always wondered how the ai were just slightly faster then me coming off a tight corner on some of the tracks. But if they still use tcs regardless of what you did that would make sense. There are some corners especially with higher hp cars its really sketchy trying to use first gear without tcs. Depending on diff settings you either light up the inside tire or take the chance of getting it sideways coming off. I still think you should learn to drive without it first for sure because ideally you don't want the abs going off or just barely working if youre braking right and you shouldn't be relying on the computer to control the throttle but there are some things they can just do faster/better then we can.lol May just be one of those things old school me has to learn to accept.

That's exactly what got me thinking about it. I could be wrong, but I don't think the AI really uses TC or ABS in their models. I think their programmed pace is based on that assumption, though--whether or not the RL car has traction control. Obviously that's a guess, but it would explain why the AI seems to lay down so much power on exit.

I totally agree. You have to learn how to drive without it first. One, because not all cars have it. And two, you'll have better pace if you're not depending on the TC or ABS and, instead, just use them in a safety net-like fashion. Also, if I'm competitive without them, then I leave them off. Off is the starting default. I'll tune other things first, looking for grip, and then only come to the electronics last, if my pace is still too far behind. That's also the only way I learn the cars no-assist limits. If you start with ABS and TC on, you won't really know where the thresholds are.

Roger Prynne
07-06-2017, 12:09
That's exactly what got me thinking about it. I could be wrong, but I don't think the AI really uses TC or ABS in their models. I think their programmed pace is based on that assumption, though--whether or not the RL car has traction control. Obviously that's a guess, but it would explain why the AI seems to lay down so much power on exit.

I totally agree. You have to learn how to drive without it first. One, because not all cars have it. And two, you'll have better pace if you're not depending on the TC or ABS and, instead, just use them in a safety net-like fashion. Also, if I'm competitive without them, then I leave them off. Off is the starting default. I'll tune other things first, looking for grip, and then only come to the electronics last, if my pace is still too far behind. That's also the only way I learn the cars no-assist limits. If you start with ABS and TC on, you won't really know where the thresholds are.

Exactly the AI are just AI, they can program them to do anything they like, also like pCARS I think they use a simpler tyre model and physics.
The hard part is getting them to act and look like real life..... and it seems they have done quite a good job with this iteration.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 12:45
Exactly the AI are just AI, they can program them to do anything they like, also like pCARS I think they use a simpler tyre model and physics.
The hard part is getting them to act and look like real life..... and it seems they have done quite a good job with this iteration.

That's what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation. Question, do you know if there are multiple pace behaviors codes per car--like a with assist vs no-assist pace--or is it just one pace per difficulty, assuming the assist are there if needed?

morpwr
07-06-2017, 13:03
Exactly the AI are just AI, they can program them to do anything they like, also like pCARS I think they use a simpler tyre model and physics.
The hard part is getting them to act and look like real life..... and it seems they have done quite a good job with this iteration.


Not positive but I'm pretty sure the ai in ac use the same physics and tire model as you get.

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 13:18
IDK... In their initial post they said the new wheel line would have a torque range far beyond the V.2.5. And, like he says in his reply, torque and speed make a big difference in terms how you respond and handle the wheel.

If you're on the fence about it, no need to come down. Wait it out, if you want. Me? I'm buying one. And I'll get the pedals and a couple new rims, too, when they come out. :) I've already read enough to know the difference, and if Fanatec hadn't announced their version, an Accuforce would still be on my upgrade ticket, anyway.

His comment doesn't really say anything that isn't already known. But by "doing it right" I take that to mean that they are doing it right. How could they not be? The new product line will not survive the hype if it isn't significantly better. If the reviews come out that say the DD is only a marginal improvement over the V2.5, even though it costs $1000, who the hell would buy it? Either the DD wheel will be huge step forward, or, if not, it will be evident in the pricing. I'd say, if it's only $500-$750, there's a good chance the improvement is marginal. But if the pricing is $800+, then I don't think they'll have to do better than marginal to get people to pay double. And since, they're talking about a range of new DD models, I do find it hard to believe that they're going to make two or three new wheel bases models that are just fractional improvement of the V2.5. What sense would that ever make? :)

I agree that DD will better and will be a Step up from the v2.5--> in My Head i cant fathom how Much better it could be though--> probabley because when they removed the Drag from the v2.5 it feels soo much better than the v2 i just cant imagine just how much better it could actually get:confused: i guess i just have to see it the same as v2 --> v2.5 it will be a Nice difference... My Question is will it be a diff thats worth 1k???.

By the time it releases there will be much more info available on wheel specs and performance to make a much more informed decision about the DD experience.... im thinking the lowest DD will start around $899.00 -->$1000.00 which is Not bad for those that already have Wheel Rims and Pedals to start off.

The V3i pedals for Me feel Much better than the regular Nin inverted v3's --> I am Very interested to see what New pedal design they come up with Next-->Maybe Real Hydrolic brake???<---that would be Nice!!!

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 13:25
The Adaotive A.I in R3E is insane!!! They even do the 1st corner pile ups!!! The A.I Very Rarely Yield or Back off!!! A.I have Spun Me out in corners just as much a People--> They even spin other A.I out as well... the A.I even flipped a few A.I cars!!! It gets frustrating... Once the Leader gets away i dont care how fast you Lap you don't Catch the 1st place A.I car.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 13:39
Not positive but I'm pretty sure the ai in ac use the same physics and tire model as you get.

Honestly, that would surprise me, as it would be HUGE processing demand on the CPU. The reason AIs usually run at a pre-coded pace is resource limitations. You need an almost Enterprise level of processing power to run full grid of AI using the same physic and tire models as the player.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 13:48
I agree that DD will better and will be a Step up from the v2.5--> in My Head i can fathom how Much better it could be though--> probabley because when they removed the Drag from the v2.5 it feels soo much better than the v2 i just cant imagine just how much better it could actually get:confused: i guess i just have to see it the same as v2 --> v2.5 it will be a Nice difference... My Question is will it be a diff thats worth 1k???.

By the time it releases there will be much more info available on wheel specs and performance to make a much more informed decision about the DD experience.... im thinking the lowest DD will start around $899.00 -->$1000.00 which is Not bad for those that already have Wheel Rims and Pedals to start off.

The V3i pedals for Me feel Much better than the regular Nin inverted v3's --> I am Very interested to see what New pedal design they come up with Next-->Maybe Real Hydrolic brake???<---that would be Nice!!!

I'm not worried. I can't fathom it not being worth it, if it's priced well above the non DD versions. Fanatec hasn't disappointed yet in there market niche. I know, at least for me, I would gladly welcome the additional torque, because I race a lot of high down force cars. They generate a lot of load in high speed corners, which means I have to run the in-car gains lower than I do in other cars. The @wheel FF allows me to increase strength to compensate, but compared to the force levels I get with other cars, the high down force cars have a lighter wheel on straights and slower corners. A stronger motor with more torque would allow for higher in-car gains in open wheelers and LMPs. That alone would make it worth it for me. :). But I've been planning to upgrade to DD for quite some time now. My questions are answered. I'm ready to buy.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 13:55
The Adaotive A.I in R3E is insane!!! They even do the 1st corner pile ups!!! The A.I Very Rarely Yield or Back off!!! A.I have Spun Me out in corners just as much a People--> They even spin other A.I out as well... the A.I even flipped a few A.I cars!!! It gets frustrating... Once the Leader gets away i dont care how fast you Lap you don't Catch the 1st place A.I car.

That's odd. I find R3E AI to be pretty good about holding lines. I've seen them make errors, but they're usually very humanlike. In my experience, the only time they seem insane is when I have the difficulty set too high.

Roger Prynne
07-06-2017, 14:25
That's what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation. Question, do you know if there are multiple pace behaviors codes per car--like a with assist vs no-assist pace--or is it just one pace per difficulty, assuming the assist are there if needed?

I believe it's this Haiden, but then you have to factor in the aggression etc.


That's odd. I find R3E AI to be pretty good about holding lines. I've seen them make errors, but they're usually very humanlike. In my experience, the only time they seem insane is when I have the difficulty set too high.
Yeah I agree with this as well.

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 15:04
That's odd. I find R3E AI to be pretty good about holding lines. I've seen them make errors, but they're usually very humanlike. In my experience, the only time they seem insane is when I have the difficulty set too high.

Dont get Me wrong i think the A.I is Really Good/Human like also--->I may have Difficulty too High then... I have a Few Video Replays of the A.I first corner Pile ups... They Cut and Ram each other off the Road!!! I thought it was Hillarious so i been saving the Replays it cracks Me up wat hing it!!! They have Spun Me out clipping My back Bumper Many times<---thats when it gets frustrating.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 15:20
Dont get Me wrong i think the A.I is Really Good/Human like also--->I may have Difficulty too High then... I have a Few Video Replays of the A.I first corner Pile ups... They Cut and Ram each other off the Road!!! I thought it was Hillarious so i been saving the Replays it cracks Me up wat hing it!!! They have Spun Me out clipping My back Bumper Many times<---thats when it gets frustrating.

Your experience sounds like issues that some people reported in the Sector3 forums. The recommended solution was to delete the adaptive AI file, and start over. In fact, did you do that before you started playing R3E since the update? If not, then that's very much likely to be your issue. It was a requirement for the update, but a lot of people missed that part. Even if you did, it might be worth trying again. As I mentioned, it's the recommended solution for people experiencing overly aggressive AI.

Also, make sure your first couple of races after deleting the file are at least 10 laps. They say that the adaptive file is always learning, regardless of whether your using the Adaptive AI setting or not. I haven't actually tested that since the update, but apparently you can run fixed difficulty and still train the AI.

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 16:03
Thanks.... I Deleted the File a Few days ago.... I will Delete it again and see what happens---> Matter of Fact after i deleted it the First Time I looked for it again the Next day after playing a few hours and couldnt find it:confused: i figured the game had not created it yet because i had not done a Career race after deleting it...but Did the update move its location??? Can you tell Me where to find it again.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 16:14
Thanks.... I Deleted the File a Few days ago.... I will Delete it again and see what happens---> Matter of Fact after i deleted it the First Time I looked for it again the Next day after playing a few hours and couldnt find it:confused: i figured the game had not created it yet because i had not done a Career race after deleting it...but Did the update move its location??? Can you tell Me where to find it again.

I'm not at my computer but I think it was in the My Documents folder, probably a subdirectory within it. I think it was called SimBin or something like that. Did you do a ten lap race after deleting it? If not, that might be the problem. I believe the recommendation was 10-12 laps. When I deleted mine, I just set the AI difficulty to adaptive, and then raced a 10 lap race. Pretty sure the file was back after that, and I was seeing improved behavior from the AI.

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 16:26
Thisis what i have been looking for... He has a DD so his answer is descriptive of what diffs are.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 16:37
Thisis what i have been looking for... He has a DD so his answer is descriptive of what diffs are.

LOL... that's exactly what everyone here has been telling you about DD wheels since you've been asking that question.

Better response time = higher degree of fidelity.

Higher levels of torque = superior/broader FFB range.

It's really that simple. :)

Roger Prynne
07-06-2017, 17:58
Thanks.... I Deleted the File a Few days ago.... I will Delete it again and see what happens---> Matter of Fact after i deleted it the First Time I looked for it again the Next day after playing a few hours and couldnt find it:confused: i figured the game had not created it yet because i had not done a Career race after deleting it...but Did the update move its location??? Can you tell Me where to find it again.

Docs\My Games\SimBin\RaceRoom Racing Experience\UserData\Player1\aiadaptation.xml

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 18:47
LOL... that's exactly what everyone here has been telling you about DD wheels since you've been asking that question.

Better response time = higher degree of fidelity.

Higher levels of torque = superior/broader FFB range.

It's really that simple. :)

No Not Exactly....What was being Mentioned was Response time which we all understand, Stronger Force curve, and overal Stronger motor--> which im Not really interested in because i cant even use the v2.5 at 100% power comfortably---> But the Stronger Motor is part of the DD package that makes it work.

What ever the case Between Thomas answer about the Low end FFB forces and the other answer is the kind of Info that i was Seeking---> Stronger Forces will be felt any way My Focus was/ is on the Subtle FFB feel... Thats what i really Needed to be clear on---> also as the Post Noted about Game FFB being developed to take advantage of DD potential is a Huge Factor and is very relevant--> I guess it just made more sence because the poster was able to hands on directly compare the v2 vs DD in Very descriptive terms.

Ive Never used a DD wheel personally and i dont want to get all hyped up about it because its the New Kraze and spend $1k+ before im fully informed---> the $500.00 on the v2.5 was easy $$$ and well worth it--> I could still get $350.00 for the v2 should i choose to sell it---> But any Sim Gear/Toys that cost $1k or more i wanna know as much as i can and hands on time if possible before i jump in!!! <--- Yup that $1k for Sim Gear or any other Non essential life product is My Maybe i wanna be Cheap threshold:p

I can already see that DD running My electric Bill up:cower:

morpwr
07-06-2017, 18:54
No Not Exactly....What was being Mentioned was Response time which we all understand, Stronger Force curve, and overal Stronger motor--> which im Not really interested in because i cant even use the v2.5 at 100% power comfortably---> But the Stronger Motor is part of the DD package that makes it work.

What ever the case Between Thomas answer --> about the Low end FFB forces and the other answer is the kind of Info that i was Seeking---> Stronger Forces will be felt any way My Focus was/ is on the Subtle FFB feel... Thats what i realky Needed to be clear on---> also as the Post Noted the part about Game FFB being developed to take advantage of DD potential a Huge Factor is very relevant--> I guess it just made more sence because the poster was able to hands on directly compare the v2 vs DD in Very descriptive terms.

Ive Never used a DD wheel personally and i dont want to get all hyped up about it because its the New Kraze and spend $1k+ before im fully informed---> the $500.00 on the v2.5 was easy $$$ and well worth it--> I could still get $350.00 for the v2 should i choose to sell it---> But any Sim Gear/Toys that cost $1k or more i wanna know as much as i can and hands on time if possible before i jump in!!! <--- Yup that $1k for Sim Gear or any other Non essential life product is My Maybe i wanna be Cheap threshold:p

I can already see that DD running My electric Bill up:cower:


A little late to worry about an electric bill and my guess is youl never notice it anyways. Did you notice your pc on your electric bill? Its not a new craze by any means. Guys have been doing it for a few years its just getting a lot more mainstream now.

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 19:27
A little late to worry about an electric bill and my guess is youl never notice it anyways. Did you notice your pc on your electric bill? Its not a new craze by any means. Guys have been doing it for a few years its just getting a lot more mainstream now.

LOL...I have a high ranch 2 family house but i use it as 1 family--> i still have 2 electric meters---> when i had the Man Kave upstairs the Electric Bill was Notably Higher :hopelessness:LOL--> Now the Man Kave is down stairs and guess wha???

I know DD has been around for a while but they are really in the spotlight Now and as you noted becoming More mainstream--> But then again maybe I'm just paying more attention to them because I'm on PC Now:confused:<-- this could very well be the case.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 20:05
No Not Exactly....What was being Mentioned was Response time which we all understand, Stronger Force curve, and overal Stronger motor--> which im Not really interested in because i cant even use the v2.5 at 100% power comfortably---> But the Stronger Motor is part of the DD package that makes it work.

What ever the case Between Thomas answer --> about the Low end FFB forces and the other answer is the kind of Info that i was Seeking---> Stronger Forces will be felt any way My Focus was/ is on the Subtle FFB feel... Thats what i realky Needed to be clear on---> also as the Post Noted the part about Game FFB being developed to take advantage of DD potential a Huge Factor is very relevant--> I guess it just made more sence because the poster was able to hands on directly compare the v2 vs DD in Very descriptive terms.

Ive Never used a DD wheel personally and i dont want to get all hyped up about it because its the New Kraze and spend $1k+ before im fully informed---> the $500.00 on the v2.5 was easy $$$ and well worth it--> I could still get $350.00 for the v2 should i choose to sell it---> But any Sim Gear/Toys that cost $1k or more i wanna know as much as i can and hands on time if possible before i jump in!!! <--- Yup that $1k for Sim Gear or any other Non essential life product is My Maybe i wanna be Cheap threshold:p

I can already see that DD running My electric Bill up:cower:

I give up, man. You just keep misunderstanding it for some reason, and you're fixated on the strength aspect. The response time isn't a result of the increased torque. It's a result of the direct drive (no belt or pulley between the motor and the shaft). That's all--consider it aspect #1, nothing to do with strength. Then... As said, right there in the screen shot you shared... Quote: "While you'd expect a DD to offer superior FFB at higher values, due to the vast torque at hand, it also offers supreme fidelity at lower forces."

That's aspect #2. And what he's saying is, the additional torque strength doesn't just make the wheel stronger. The increased torque provides greater dynamic range. Each model of the new DD line will have increasingly broader dynamic range in relation to their torque levels.

As far as games being created to utilize it. It's not that there aren't any current games. It's just that not all games will put it through it full paces. That doesn't mean you won't feel an improvement in subtle feel across all games. Just that the wheel is capable of more detail than some title are offering. This is why, in the first announcement, they said that higher end models with the most torque won't be something most people can even use for a while. Translation = The higher models are best suited for professional level sim software. But the lower base model will definitely be a consumer wheel with performance levels far above the V2.5. That's not an assumption or guess. That's what they just stated in the announcement. :)

Haiden
07-06-2017, 20:07
LOL...I have a high ranch 2 family house but i use it as 1 family--> i still have 2 electric meters---> when i had the Man Kave upstairs the Electric Bill was Notably Higher :hopelessness:LOL--> Now the Man Kave is down stairs and guess wha???

I know DD has been around for a while but they are really in the spotlight Now and as you noted becoming More mainstream--> But then again maybe I'm just paying more attention to them because I'm on PC Now:confused:<-- this could very well be the case.

How much could it possibly be? I run my A/C constantly during the summer. It adds about $50 to my electric bill. How could a DD running for a hours here and there possibly be worth thinking about? :)

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 20:22
How much could it possibly be? I run my A/C constantly during the summer. It adds about $50 to my electric bill. How could a DD running for a hours here and there possibly be worth thinking about? :)

Its not Really gonna be that Much more I'm just Being over dramatic;) maybe $5->$7 and that's pushing it...
something really to consider is making sure you have a free Electrical outlet so the wheel can be plugged in on its own circuit breaker if possible because when that baby draw power its gonna draw some serious amps!!!--> TV,PC, Surround sound, Buttkickers all in the same outlet could be a issue--> most house circuit breakers are 20-->30 amps and you dont wanna trip a breaker in the middle of a race especially Not the 1 the PC is plugged into.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 20:50
Its not Really gonna be that Much more I'm just Being over dramatic;) maybe $5->$7 and that's pushing it...
something really to consider is making sure you have a free Electrical outlet so the wheel can be plugged in on its own circuit breaker if possible because when that baby draw power its gonna draw some serious amps!!!--> TV,PC, Surround sound, Buttkickers all in the same outlet could be a issue--> most house circuit breakers are 20-->30 amps and you dont wanna trip a breaker in the middle of a race especially Not the 1 the PC is plugged into.

Hmmm... I'm gonna say that's not something I need to worry about when making a purchasing decision. If I can plug it into a standard socket, I'll make it work. And even if doesn't have a standard plug, there are adapters. :)

Funny... It kind of sounds like, deep down, you really don't want to buy a DD wheel. If that's the case, then just don't. No one is pressuring you. Just seems like you have a lot of unanswered questions and uncertainty about the whole thing.

But don't worry. I give you a comprehensive comparative review V2 vs DD a few days after I get mine. :)

Haiden
07-06-2017, 21:14
LOL...I have a high ranch 2 family house but i use it as 1 family--> i still have 2 electric meters---> when i had the Man Kave upstairs the Electric Bill was Notably Higher :hopelessness:LOL--> Now the Man Kave is down stairs and guess wha???

I know DD has been around for a while but they are really in the spotlight Now and as you noted becoming More mainstream--> But then again maybe I'm just paying more attention to them because I'm on PC Now:confused:<-- this could very well be the case.

This guys a bit annoying and his videos are longer than they need to be, but he reviews one of the new OSW kits, and tries it with a few titles (separate videos). He talks about the fidelity while driving. And even says, "In AC, with a DD wheel, even the crappiest handling cars feel quite good." He even mentions the fact that, even with the Road Texture turned off, he's still feeling a lot more subtleties in the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1cEqU0byaQ&t=341s

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 21:32
Hmmm... I'm gonna say that's not something I need to worry about when making a purchasing decision. If I can plug it into a standard socket, I'll make it work. And even if doesn't have a standard plug, there are adapters. :)

Funny... It kind of sounds like, deep down, you really don't want to buy a DD wheel. If that's the case, then just don't. No one is pressuring you. Just seems like you have a lot of unanswered questions and uncertainty about the whole thing.

But don't worry. I give you a comprehensive comparative review V2 vs DD a few days after I get mine. :)

Not at all...Your not getting what I was saying---> Even when you read the fanatic posting Thomas makes mention of certain things to consider before buying a DD wheel Note the below Quote from the Forum post

" Certification
Like any other Fanatec product, the DD will be fully certified and lab tested. This will avoid EMI issues and other interference with your other devices. The DD uses a lot of power and huge magnets are involved so this is a very important point which is often not considered until you get a lot of mysterious issues and damages to your whole system."

too many devices DD, TV, PC, Buttkickers, Surround sound plugged into 1 outlet can Lead to a result if the breaker trips while game data is loading or saving:dejection: <--this is what I was getting at.


I will more than likely get it--> I Need Rehab I'm a wheel Hoarder:hopelessness: + the v2.5 and I still have My MS wireless wheel it just makes No sense:stupid: I always think about selling off extras but cant bring Myself to sell any of them thus far.

Haiden
07-06-2017, 22:06
Not at all...Your not getting what I was saying---> Even when you read the fanatic posting Thomas makes mention of certain things to consider before buying a DD wheel Note the below Quote from the Forum post

" Certification
Like any other Fanatec product, the DD will be fully certified and lab tested. This will avoid EMI issues and other interference with your other devices. The DD uses a lot of power and huge magnets are involved so this is a very important point which is often not considered until you get a lot of mysterious issues and damages to your whole system."

too many devices DD, TV, PC, Buttkickers, Surround sound plugged into 1 outlet can Lead to a result if the breaker trips while game data is loading or saving:dejection: <--this is what I was getting at.


I will more than likely get it--> I Need Rehab I'm a wheel Hoarder:hopelessness: + the v2.5 and I still have My MS wireless wheel it just makes No sense:stupid: I always think about selling off extras but cant bring Myself to sell any of them thus far.

Not sure that what he meant by EMI (electromagnetic interference). I think he's talking about how close you put other devices to the base, particularly the PC, hard drives, and any device sensitive to magnetic interference. To me, avoiding tripping a circuit breaker is a natural consideration. You always need to watch how many devices you have pulling off one circuit. But it's not something that makes or breaks a purchase.

Sell that stuff, dude. When was the last time you used those old bases? I sold my T300 and T3PA Pros when I dropped Sony. And I've got the TX and 458 Spider boxed and ready to sell, too. They're just taking up space in the closet. I'll probably keep the V2 when I get the DD, though. Then when the new pedals come out, I'll put the V2 and V3s on a Wheel Stand Pro and use it for casual console racing. That way I can take a break and drive some open world in FH2. :) I know it's arcade, but I love the open world style, and it's fun for friends and guests, way more accessible. And less stressful for me. There are only a couple people I totally trust on my rig. :)

GrimeyDog
07-06-2017, 22:54
Dont feel bad I like FMH series also I actually Have FMH3 for PC:o I bought it Digital copy so it works on Xbox1 also--> Nothing But pure Fun:)
i dont Let any 1 touch My set up:no: maybe a fellow sim racer but i don't have any sim racer friends that live near by--> the Man kave is Invite only.

morpwr
08-06-2017, 01:06
Its not Really gonna be that Much more I'm just Being over dramatic;) maybe $5->$7 and that's pushing it...
something really to consider is making sure you have a free Electrical outlet so the wheel can be plugged in on its own circuit breaker if possible because when that baby draw power its gonna draw some serious amps!!!--> TV,PC, Surround sound, Buttkickers all in the same outlet could be a issue--> most house circuit breakers are 20-->30 amps and you dont wanna trip a breaker in the middle of a race especially Not the 1 the PC is plugged into.

Dude you don't have to worry about tripping breaker unless your house wiring sucks. Your pc has a bigger power supply probably. Even an osw only has a 500 watt in most cases unless its the 30nm and even then its not a lot bigger. I don't know why you think these wheels are going to draw so much if that was the case they would be 220v and not 110v.

The point Thomas made had more to do with emi caused by the big magnets and higher current draw then a standard wheel not popping breakers....

morpwr
08-06-2017, 01:14
Not sure that what he meant by EMI (electromagnetic interference). I think he's talking about how close you put other devices to the base, particularly the PC, hard drives, and any device sensitive to magnetic interference. To me, avoiding tripping a circuit breaker is a natural consideration. You always need to watch how many devices you have pulling off one circuit. But it's not something that makes or breaks a purchase.

Sell that stuff, dude. When was the last time you used those old bases? I sold my T300 and T3PA Pros when I dropped Sony. And I've got the TX and 458 Spider boxed and ready to sell, too. They're just taking up space in the closet. I'll probably keep the V2 when I get the DD, though. Then when the new pedals come out, I'll put the V2 and V3s on a Wheel Stand Pro and use it for casual console racing. That way I can take a break and drive some open world in FH2. :) I know it's arcade, but I love the open world style, and it's fun for friends and guests, way more accessible. And less stressful for me. There are only a couple people I totally trust on my rig. :)

DD wheels just by their motor design create emi. Ive seen a ton of posts with osw stuff causing strange issues because of improper grounding between things on the rig. Not a huge deal but it can cause issues if not taken care of when designing the wheel.

morpwr
08-06-2017, 01:29
Honestly, that would surprise me, as it would be HUGE processing demand on the CPU. The reason AIs usually run at a pre-coded pace is resource limitations. You need an almost Enterprise level of processing power to run full grid of AI using the same physic and tire models as the player.

I just found it. I thought I read it somewhere and it was posted by kunos(the guy that fixed the ai so I'm guessing he knows). AI do use tcs,abs and stability control at a higher rate then we have so yes its better for the ai.They also have the ability to use it whenever necessary so it doesn't matter what you do. I cant find it right now but I'm almost positive I saw them also say the ai are running the same physics/tire model as us it was one of the big points to the ai. Not saying how they did it just saying they said they did.

GrimeyDog
08-06-2017, 10:12
Dude you don't have to worry about tripping breaker unless your house wiring sucks. Your pc has a bigger power supply probably. Even an osw only has a 500 watt in most cases unless its the 30nm and even then its not a lot bigger. I don't know why you think these wheels are going to draw so much if that was the case they would be 220v and not 110v.

The point Thomas made had more to do with emi caused by the big magnets and higher current draw then a standard wheel not popping breakers....


LOL... Yes i know the Motor its self wont pop Breakersr... But i bet you too like many of us have a Maze of wires in back of your TV going into a power sttip thats plugged into 1 outlet and you probably like many of us have 2 power strips in the same outlet.... Each power strip has 6 plugs and you prob only have maybe 2 or 3 free slots--> Tv, PC, Buttkicker, Wheel, Surround sound, PS4 etc--> this is what i was getting at many devices in 1 outlet ---> the Draw of a DD could be a bit much for that 1 outlet.... Im pretty sure No one is running electric cords across the Room <---Well at least i know im Not.

I know Magnets have a effect on tube TV's, We all know Not to put Magnets by the PC---> Im Not too Sure about magnets effect on LCD/LED TV's.

morpwr
08-06-2017, 10:48
LOL... Yes i know the Motor its self wont pop Breakersr... But i bet you too like many of us have a Maze of wires in back of your TV going into a power sttip thats plugged into 1 outlet and you probably like many of us have 2 power strips in the same outlet.... Each power strip has 6 plugs and you prob only have maybe 2 or 3 free slots--> Tv, PC, Buttkicker, Wheel, Surround sound, PS4 etc--> this is what i was getting at many devices in 1 outlet ---> the Draw of a DD could be a bit much for that 1 outlet.... Im pretty sure No one is running electric cords across the Room <---Well at least i know im Not.

I know Magnets have a effect on tube TV's, We all know Not to put Magnets by the PC---> Im Not too Sure about magnets effect on LCD/LED TV's.


Unless I figured it wrong but a 110 volt 500 watt power supply will draw about 5 amps so not a huge deal. You have to remember everything has gotten a lot more energy efficient too tv,pcs,ps4s all use less then they used to and probably isn't near what you think. I only have one strip plugged into the outlet my pc is on and no extension cords.lol The only way I could see it being an issue is if your house was wired weird and had a ton of big stuff in another room. It does happen a lot times multiple rooms or part of another room is on the same circuit. Never understood why they wire houses this way. But in most cases I cant see it ever being an issue.

Haiden
08-06-2017, 11:20
I just found it. I thought I read it somewhere and it was posted by kunos(the guy that fixed the ai so I'm guessing he knows). AI do use tcs,abs and stability control at a higher rate then we have so yes its better for the ai.They also have the ability to use it whenever necessary so it doesn't matter what you do. I cant find it right now but I'm almost positive I saw them also say the ai are running the same physics/tire model as us it was one of the big points to the ai. Not saying how they did it just saying they said they did.

IDK... I'd really love to see that. Because think about it. Sims like PCars, which we know the AI doesn't run models, are taxing the crap out of PC and console resources. If the AI was also running models, then the larger the grid, the more processing power would be needed. That would make the minimum PC specs pretty high, and consoles would be sputtering. If they've managed to do that, it's very impressive, and Kunos should get a lot of credit. People should also stop asking them about weather and time transitions, too, because I don't see how there'd be any processing power left to implement that. In fact, that should be Kunos' go-to excuse for not having weather--"We modeled the individual AIs instead." :)

GrimeyDog
08-06-2017, 11:25
LOL---> Yeah i have to remember that things are more energy eficient---> I still remember when houses had Glass Fuses!!! age is showing������ Also with all this stuff Costing Real $$$<--- this Hobby is getting kinda pricey--->i do what ever i can to ensure i can try to protect the Equipment.