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tennenbaum
05-10-2017, 19:41
The ti is definitely the difference. I think they even advertise it as being up to three times faster. Not a biggie. I found out my problem was Bloom. I thought I turned it off, but it was still on. I discovered that while testing the settings in that link. Bloom has a big impact on my frame rate. Turned that off, and things were different. I could run a higher SS, for most conditions, but I just tune it for bad conditions like night thunderstorm, and then let that be the general setting. I don't like the ASW kicking in. I don't mind it during the start, up to turn one, but I like to be at 90 fps as much as possible. Although, I did notice that ASW isn't as annoying when MSAA was off, and I was just running 1.2 SS. But with MSAA on, I can see the ASW as soon as it starts. You should be able to run Afterburner just fine. I never notice any fps difference with or without it, so it seems to run very light.




I didn't have good luck with these settings. As-is, they just tripped the ASW hard and ran at a constant 45 fps. Again, might be the hardware difference. I was able to use a few of the settings though. I turned MSAA off, and use SS now, at 1.2. I hadn't noticed how bad the AA was with the in-game MSAA, but once I saw the difference, I just couldn't got back to it. I'm going to check again tonight, but the GPU-specific tweaks didn't seem to make a difference either way. Maybe if I was pushing it more, but since I'm looking for a steady 90, I think I might be purposefully running things a little lower. I'm totally fine with it, though. PCars2 is without a doubt the best look sim in VR, so I have no problems with my current settings. :)



This is a weird one. I set that to zero last night, following the tips in that link, and I can't saw I noticed any real difference in head movement in VR. I think I had already lowered mine to like 40 though, so maybe that's why it was less noticeable. I'll crank it back up tonight and check. I typically don't care for the Look to Apex and stuff like that.

i think the 1080ti is supposed to deliver approx. 30% more fps than the 1080. Also one of my findings was that ASW seems to stress the CPU quite a lot, that's why i turn it off. Regarding the 0-100 range in pCars2 for environmental movements i figured out that the according setting bar in pCars2 seems to be misleading: Actually a value of 0 puts the movement to 100%, while 100 sets the movement to none (which is preferable for VR). The idea that the guy from racedepartment introduced was to allow a little bit of movement for more immersion by setting it to 70 - 80. I also still recommend to dial in some SMAA, instead of setting it to 0. In a case oft doubt (due to not enough performance by the HW) i'd rather prefer SS to 1.0 with SMAA to mid, instead of SS to 1.2 or 1.3 without SMAA. However - as i tried to point out - considering the pain and time to experiment with different settings, the differences in picture "clarity" / less "blury-ness" are not as significant as one may think so.

Haiden
05-10-2017, 20:20
i think the 1080ti is supposed to deliver approx. 30% more fps than the 1080. Also one of my findings was that ASW seems to stress the CPU quite a lot, that's why i turn it off. Regarding the 0-100 range in pCars2 for environmental movements i figured out that the according setting bar in pCars2 seems to be misleading: Actually a value of 0 puts the movement to 100%, while 100 sets the movement to none (which is preferable for VR). The idea that the guy from racedepartment introduced was to allow a little bit of movement for more immersion by setting it to 70 - 80. I also still recommend to dial in some SMAA, instead of setting it to 0. In a case oft doubt (due to not enough performance by the HW) i'd rather prefer SS to 1.0 with SMAA to mid, instead of SS to 1.2 or 1.3 without SMAA. However - as i tried to point out - considering the pain and time to experiment with different settings, the differences in picture "clarity" / less "blury-ness" are not as significant as one may think so.

This was my thinking as well. I was running that exact mix, MSAA=Med and SS=1.0. It was fine, until I tried MSAA=OFF and SS 1.2. After a few test runs with MSAA off, when I went back to it, I noticed how much blurrier the image was with MSAA, especially the objects in the distance. I had heard someone mention that the in-game AA was terrible, but didn't realize it until I did that back and forth. Performance wise, I'm not seeing a difference between the two settings. But the image does look better using SS instead of MSAA.

Stills strange about the World Movement value, though. I had it set to 0 and definitely didn't notice any movement. I set it to 40 last night, and still didn't really see/feel any noticeable change. :confused:

tennenbaum
05-10-2017, 20:30
This was my thinking as well. I was running that exact mix, MSAA=Med and SS=1.0. It was fine, until I tried MSAA=OFF and SS 1.2. After a few test runs with MSAA off, when I went back to it, I noticed how much blurrier the image was with MSAA, especially the objects in the distance. I had heard someone mention that the in-game AA was terrible, but didn't realize it until I did that back and forth. Performance wise, I'm not seeing a difference between the two settings. But the image does look better using SS instead of MSAA.

Stills strange about the World Movement value, though. I had it set to 0 and definitely didn't notice any movement. I set it to 40 last night, and still didn't really see/feel any noticeable change. :confused:

i actually meant SS somewhere between 1.0 - 1.3 but with some SMAA. However it's complicated. Meanwhile let's enjoy what we got. Which is pretty much with pCars 2 ;-)

tennenbaum
05-10-2017, 20:32
we should set up some decent relaxed MP races with the old bunch of guys like last year...

Roger Prynne
05-10-2017, 20:49
This was my thinking as well. I was running that exact mix, MSAA=Med and SS=1.0. It was fine, until I tried MSAA=OFF and SS 1.2. After a few test runs with MSAA off, when I went back to it, I noticed how much blurrier the image was with MSAA, especially the objects in the distance. I had heard someone mention that the in-game AA was terrible, but didn't realize it until I did that back and forth. Performance wise, I'm not seeing a difference between the two settings. But the image does look better using SS instead of MSAA.

Stills strange about the World Movement value, though. I had it set to 0 and definitely didn't notice any movement. I set it to 40 last night, and still didn't really see/feel any noticeable change. :confused:

I don't think any of the camera movements work in VR for obvious reasons.

Haiden
05-10-2017, 21:07
I don't think any of the camera movements work in VR for obvious reasons.

That's what I was wondering. The settings don't seem to have any affect in VR.

tennenbaum
06-10-2017, 15:37
That's what I was wondering. The settings don't seem to have any affect in VR.

Good. something less to test.

tennenbaum
08-10-2017, 02:10
I just did some MP online races in open lobbies with F to A rated drivers. All the MP game mechanics worked wonderfully - except replay -, the skill level and cleanness of 90% of the drivers was stunning to me. The rating system seems to work!

The more a play pCars 2 the more convinced i am by the FFB and physics. Great job SMS. A really polished sim. I really hope word of mouth spreads and it sets a standard in e-sports with a large player base. Btw: VR helps me a lot to race clean bumper to bumper. The thrill is simply amazing.

GrimeyDog
10-10-2017, 23:34
Woooohoooo!!!! Im Back!!! its Good to be posting again with you after My Time out/ Vacation time.... Good thing it was My Bithday week or i would have been miserable:o The Dog made 48yrs!!! thats special because Many i know or grew up with Never made it that far...the wife is wanting Me to get Popped again though������ I guess she got a few Blast/Bang's:p!!! from My forum Time out������

GrimeyDog
11-10-2017, 00:28
I been reading the post... there are quite a few topics to Explorer regarding Pcars2!!! Ex: 1 topic in particular woud be Rig set up... Rig set up makes a huge Diff!!! try buttkickers -vs- No buttkickers ---> makes a hug difference feels like a totally diff game! with no buttkickers!!!

GrimeyDog
11-10-2017, 21:15
I have read post that say the Rumble strip/ Curb feel was Very light and barely Noticeable with some wheels i thought that was very odd because i can clearly feel every Rumble strip and curb ---> i forgot to turn the Buttkickers on and the game felt totally different not in a bad way but just less informative about whats going on with the car....it took a few min then i realized that My Buttkickers were not on:p it was then i understood what some were saying about the Rumble strip/Curb feel being very light:eagerness:

While rumble strip/ curb feel is indeed light i believe it does simulate reality more effectively this way --. I say this because if you ever hit the Rumble strips/wake up strips/ Lane divider strips on the Highway at highway speed or even slow speed then you know that they don't try to Rip the wheel out of your hands but you feel the whole car shaking much more than you feel it in the steering wheel.

Now once i turned the Buttkickers back on The feel was even more Sim like because i understood just how deep SMS really went to offer the most realistic sim racing experience:yes: 1 Bkkr plays Left the other right and you can clearly feel the diff between left and right rumble intensity when hitting rumble strips, curbs , walls and even other cars!!! Even when you put the car off track and drive back on you can feel the rumble intensity change from right to left or vise versa depending on direction of travel.


SMS really did a great Job:yes:

tennenbaum
12-10-2017, 21:25
I have read post that say the Rumble strip/ Curb feel was Very light and barely Noticeable with some wheels i thought that was very odd because i can clearly feel every Rumble strip and curb ---> i forgot to turn the Buttkickers on and the game felt totally different not in a bad way but just less informative about whats going on with the car....it took a few min then i realized that My Buttkickers were not on:p it was then i understood what some were saying about the Rumble strip/Curb feel being very light:eagerness:

While rumble strip/ curb feel is indeed light i believe it does simulate reality more effectively this way --. I say this because if you ever hit the Rumble strips/wake up strips/ Lane divider strips on the Highway at highway speed or even slow speed then you know that they don't try to Rip the wheel out of your hands but you feel the whole car shaking much more than you feel it in the steering wheel.

Now once i turned the Buttkickers back on The feel was even more Sim like because i understood just how deep SMS really went to offer the most realistic sim racing experience:yes: 1 Bkkr plays Left the other right and you can clearly feel the diff between left and right rumble intensity when hitting rumble strips, curbs , walls and even other cars!!! Even when you put the car off track and drive back on you can feel the rumble intensity change from right to left or vise versa depending on direction of travel.


SMS really did a great Job:yes:

Yes, SMS did a great job. I got hooked up yesterday with the pretty well done GTS Demo (especially the lobby matchmaking system is great), but then i fired up pCars2 again (in VR, but anyway) i immediately realized what makes pCars2 so great (among many other things): The cars really live! I really hope SMS won't give in in the future to the "one game should fit all tastes" idea, and that they keep going with the approach they took. I want a game that has depth, immersion, thrill and skills needed to master it. That's what SMS delivered in an absolutely stunning way. (Except an a bit more polished replay mode).

Äh, and i also wants my butt kicked asap. Do you use simvibe, or just the audio output?

GrimeyDog
13-10-2017, 12:30
No Sim Vibe i dont feel i Need it... The Buttkickers working from the audio feels Great.... Some will argue Sim Vib is better but for Me the Simplicity of just plug and play audio run Buttkickers is Well Good Enough.... Also because i run them from the TV 3.5mm Head phone Jack what ever i Play or watch the Buttkickers work!!! They are Awsome when watching a Action Movie!!! You Feel Every Explosion, Gun Shot, Car Crash Etc.

GrimeyDog
13-10-2017, 21:56
I finally got My Display HUD working and adjusted right in VR:o ...It pops up every time Now No more having to go to the HUD adjustment screen every race to get it to work!!!. That was Getting annoying.

Its been sooo Long since i used VR i had a ton of VR updating to Do!!! I have it set to auto update so i dunno why it was sooo out of date... Maybe because of windows updates??? But i had to Go to the install package and push repair Now all is well and it even looks better.

Did any of you manage to get AfterBurner working with VR???
How do you keep track of your VR FPS???

Haiden
14-10-2017, 13:47
No Sim Vibe i dont feel i Need it... The Buttkickers working from the audio feels Great.... Some will argue Sim Vib is better but for Me the Simplicity of just plug and play audio run Buttkickers is Well Good Enough.... Also because i run them from the TV 3.5mm Head phone Jack what ever i Play or watch the Buttkickers work!!! They are Awsome when watching a Action Movie!!! You Feel Every Explosion, Gun Shot, Car Crash Etc.

I've been fine with using audio source, as well, but still have an eye on SimVibe. The real benefit of the software is being able to choose which sounds get sent to the kicker, instead of just all low rumbles. It can turn your BK2 into a more informative tool. Also, because you're not sending all sounds to the transducer, you can actually set it much higher and get more the hardware, because the transducer isn't constantly vibrating from all sounds. Downside to SimVibe is it requires a second car works on telemetry data. So, if for some reason, a title were to mess up the data stream in a patch or update, you could lose that feeling in yoru BK2.


Did any of you manage to get AfterBurner working with VR???
How do you keep track of your VR FPS???

Afterburner works, but externally. I can only see the stats on the monitor, but not in the headset. If you want fps and performance stats in the VR headset, you should run the Oculus Debug Tool. That will show you fps and other things, including how much GPU headroom is available, in the VR headset. You just need to start the debug tool prior to starting a VR session and enable to the HUD overlay.

ZulfoDK
25-10-2017, 07:52
No Sim Vibe i dont feel i Need it... The Buttkickers working from the audio feels Great.... Some will argue Sim Vib is better but for Me the Simplicity of just plug and play audio run Buttkickers is Well Good Enough.... Also because i run them from the TV 3.5mm Head phone Jack what ever i Play or watch the Buttkickers work!!! They are Awsome when watching a Action Movie!!! You Feel Every Explosion, Gun Shot, Car Crash Etc.

You really don't know what you are missing with out Sim Vibe. With a guy that much into the immersion from the right FFB settings, you would think that you also would want the best from your Buttkicker?!

I'm running a buttkicker gamer 2 and Sim Vibe, and the difference is night and day, as you can tune Sim Vibe extensively andget feedback that you don't get just from LFE sound.

tennenbaum
26-10-2017, 15:35
Did the FFB graph go since patch 1.2 ? I only see the FFB Histogram.

tennenbaum
16-11-2017, 23:36
Grimey, Haiden,

when you use your buttkicker with pCars2 did you notice that the kicker just rumbles when you hit the curbs with your left tires, BUT NOT with the right side tires?

I checked it with other games (AC, R3E, pCars1) and they work fine with the kicker connected to the center/sub out of the sound card. But not pCars2, i guess it's a bug. Which is a pity because playing the game(s) with the buttkicker is indeed a lot more fun.

Haiden
17-11-2017, 13:46
Grimey, Haiden,

when you use your buttkicker with pCars2 did you notice that the kicker just rumbles when you hit the curbs with your left tires, BUT NOT with the right side tires?

I checked it with other games (AC, R3E, pCars1) and they work fine with the kicker connected to the center/sub out of the sound card. But not pCars2, i guess it's a bug. Which is a pity because playing the game(s) with the buttkicker is indeed a lot more fun.

I can't run mine through the subwoofer port. I have a wireless headset that doesn't use the sound card, so I have to mirror the sound with the Windows Stereo Mixer. As the name implies, it's only stereo sound. The headphones simulate surround just fine, but since the sound card is getting a stereo signal, the BK2 has to be plugged into the L/R channels.

That said, I don't really like the audio source for the BK2. It's fine definitely increases the immersion. But after trying a SimVibe setup with a single BK2, I want to upgrade. For one, you can control the signal with SimVibe and get specific vibrations which is far more informative, instead of just getting rumble from any low frequency signal. Also, since you're not getting the constant rumble from all sounds, you can actually crank the BK2 up pretty high, because it's not working as hard.

When I play with my surround setup, instead of headphones, I can use the subwoofer port for the BK2. But after the initial shiny wore off, I stopped bothering to change the ports and just leave it connect to the L/R channels. I think I had already stopped using the Sub channel before PCar2 came out. Doesn't surprise me though, because PCars2 sound is a little jacked up.

GrimeyDog
17-11-2017, 19:28
Grimey, Haiden,

when you use your buttkicker with pCars2 did you notice that the kicker just rumbles when you hit the curbs with your left tires, BUT NOT with the right side tires?

I checked it with other games (AC, R3E, pCars1) and they work fine with the kicker connected to the center/sub out of the sound card. But not pCars2, i guess it's a bug. Which is a pity because playing the game(s) with the buttkicker is indeed a lot more fun.

I use 2x buttkickers 1 plugged to right RCA line and other plugged into Left RCA line they both work independent of each other Rumble strips, Impacts --> L/R feel can clearly be felt as to which side is rumbling harde but but will work together when sound is centered.

Try plugging both lines L/R i to the Buttkicker amp... Sub ports play Mono Not stereo so you may Not get L/R audio for the Buttkicker to react to ---> When i used just 1 buttkicker i had L & R plugged into the amp.

Has any 1 tried FM7 on PC??? Its Great!!! The FFB is Night and Day different from Console!!! IMO FM7 feels almost the Same as Good as AC!!! Pcars2 at this point is Not beating FM7 by Much in terms of Game Feel--> Pcar2 just feels more Sim like.

Edit: Pcar2 wins in road texture feel some of the forza tracks feel too smooth but the Buttkicker feel in Forza is Much better than it is with PCars 1 or 2 Facts!!! Crashes and impacts Feel thunderous but Not over whelming!!! The Wheel Rumble Strip feel feel is about the same depending on settings used --> Pcars2 Needs to turn up the Rumble strip Feel and Base a Tad bit more for More feel in those areas.

FM7 @4k Looks Amazing and i get a Rock Solid 60FPS and it appears to Not be using SLI its DX12 so i dont know what tricks its using but After burner Shows the Load mostly on 1 GPU.

If you havent already i suggest to down load the New After Burner 7.0 its very stable with the Windows Creators update.

after the Windows Creator's update Even FH3 Runs at 4k with a Solid 60FPS and Feels Great!!!

Im Still debating to DD wheel or Not... I don't think that Sim Racing Game Physics are at the point where it demands a DD wheel for best feel yet...pcars may change this after a few updates but as it is now its not there yet --> The v2.5 seems to be more than enough for now.

tennenbaum
18-11-2017, 13:10
Thanks guys,

as always spot on answers!

Using audio L/R actually does work, though subwoofer / center provides better separation of frequency, i.e. rumble events. -Well, if it would properly work... (it's really a bug.)

Now, since i use L/R i understand what Haiden said about not using simvibe... Yes, i get to much low frequency butt kicking from the general audio...

@Haiden: I have an built-in 7.1 Soundcard, and an external 5.1 Soundcard. Does the simvibe software detect both cards, capable of addressing the rumble effects to one card, while getting the normal sound out to the second card? Can the simvibe app be tested before buying? Thanks!

@Grimey: I'll test Afterburner 7.0 with creator's update. Though i can say for sure, that EVGA's Precision XOC definitely causes a stutter about every second while playing Eve Valkyrie War Zone in VR. Turning XOC off the stutter is gone.

And yes, pCars2 really needs some substantial patches, to become eventually the champion. And a matchmaking system. (I can hardly convince my friends change to pCars2 after they got used to GTS' no-brainer lobby system. Please SMS... ;-)

Haiden
18-11-2017, 15:07
Thanks guys,

as always spot on answers!

Using audio L/R actually does work, though subwoofer / center provides better separation of frequency, i.e. rumble events. -Well, if it would properly work... (it's really a bug.)

Now, since i use L/R i understand what Haiden said about not using simvibe... Yes, i get to much low frequency butt kicking from the general audio...

@Haiden: I have an built-in 7.1 Soundcard, and an external 5.1 Soundcard. Does the simvibe software detect both cards, capable of addressing the rumble effects to one card, while getting the normal sound out to the second card? Can the simvibe app be tested before buying? Thanks!

Agreed. The sub would be ideal, because it removes the extraneous low frequencies, if it actually worked. I can't really remember how it felt in AC, before I stopped swapping connections, between headphones and speakers.

SimVibe actually requires two sounds cards. The one it uses doesn't have to be fancy. A regular stereo card will do. Not sure about demo. One thing I do know is, it uses telemetry to determine what effects to send. If you have more than one BK2, you can decide which one certain signals go to and how much effect they produce. But, even with one, you will get more from your BK2, because it won't be rumbling for every low freq in the audio signal.

Edit: Also worth noting... because it uses telemetry, your setups can be affected by changes on the developer's end. I read at least one instance where an update on a title messed something up in the telemetry and people were complaining that some of their effects were suddenly muted or non-existent. The issues was addressed quickly by the developer, but the dependency is something to keep in mind. :)

Haiden
18-11-2017, 15:38
Has any 1 tried FM7 on PC??? Its Great!!! The FFB is Night and Day different from Console!!! IMO FM7 feels almost the Same as Good as AC!!! Pcars2 at this point is Not beating FM7 by Much in terms of Game Feel--> Pcar2 just feels more Sim like.

Im Still debating to DD wheel or Not... I don't think that Sim Racing Game Physics are at the point where it demands a DD wheel for best feel yet...pcars may change this after a few updates but as it is now its not there yet --> The v2.5 seems to be more than enough for now.

Man... I tried FM7, but didn't think it was anything close to AC. Not bad, but more in line with PCars in terms of physics and FFB. It's not bad, though. I would have bought it if it supported VR. If they ever add that, I will.

I don't think any sim really demands any particular kind of wheel. There are aliens with scorching paces running G29, and average racers using OSWs. But you do get better response and range from a DD. Even Thomas Jackermeier has spoken to this. His comments are particularly interesting because unlike other DD makers, Fanatec now has both models--belt and DD. Jackermeier has talked about the differences in many videos. One of the things he often mentions is the additional torque strength, and how that ensures there's always more power to spare and makes clipping virtually a non-issue. So, unlike a belt, when you're running a high-speed corner, like Eau Rouge, flat out in an F1 car, it can deliver the full force in that corner, and still have power to spare for slip, curbs, and anything else that comes. Most belt wheels, including the V2.5, clip in that scenario. It's just one of those corners you tolerate clipping in, because reduces the strength to avoid it in that one corner would leave you under powered around the rest of the track. With a DD, you wouldn't have to worry about that.

That being said, my only hesitation on the Fanatec DD is price. Accuforce, OSW, and the like aren't an option for me, because they have no real ecosystem when it comes to rims, and I'm not giving up my rim set, or willing to pay for custom rims for those bases. Fanatec also has new Podium series rims coming. I'm waiting to see where they price the Podium series DDs. I want a new chassis and some other things, too. If they DD is priced so high that I can only get the base, I think I'd rather have the V2.5 and a few new rims and possibly pedals (they mentioned new Podium series pedals, as well). I tried an Accuforce a while back and while it does have more range and power, I know it's not really going to improve my pace. I have two friends that sim race. One has a V2.5. The other has a T300. I can easily match my V2 pace with my favorite car/track combos on the T300. And only broke one personal best with the V2.5 (and only by .150). So, right now, I'm more concerned about how much hardware I can get for my buck, not DD vs Belt.

I'm also thinking (again depending on the price point), it might be a good idea to just get the V2.5 for now, and then revisit the Podium DDs a couple years later, after I've had a chance to see how the hardware holds up quality-wise. IDK.. it's all hypothetical until Fanatec puts out some release info.

tennenbaum
19-11-2017, 17:57
Agreed. The sub would be ideal, because it removes the extraneous low frequencies, if it actually worked. I can't really remember how it felt in AC, before I stopped swapping connections, between headphones and speakers.

SimVibe actually requires two sounds cards. The one it uses doesn't have to be fancy. A regular stereo card will do. Not sure about demo. One thing I do know is, it uses telemetry to determine what effects to send. If you have more than one BK2, you can decide which one certain signals go to and how much effect they produce. But, even with one, you will get more from your BK2, because it won't be rumbling for every low freq in the audio signal.

Edit: Also worth noting... because it uses telemetry, your setups can be affected by changes on the developer's end. I read at least one instance where an update on a title messed something up in the telemetry and people were complaining that some of their effects were suddenly muted or non-existent. The issues was addressed quickly by the developer, but the dependency is something to keep in mind. :)

Haiden, help would be highly appreciated:

i bought Simvibe, installed it effortlessly, set it to motionless and addressed (checkbox Enable SimVibe Extensions) it to my onboard sound card Asus Essence II 7.1 (wheel, seat, shifter, pedal) because i only have 1 buttkicker that i wanted to bind with the "seat". So i left "Enable SimVibe Chassis" un-checked.

SimVibe preset for the "seat" contains gear change, collision, road bumps and something else, all switched on. I left this to what is was by default. So now (since i choose the Asus sound card) i expected the output signal (for "seat") coming out from one of the 8 (7.1) available cinch outputs (acc. to set up guide: green or black output cinch). I checked all 8 cinch outputs by connecting them to the buttkicker amplifier. (The entire buttkicker signal chain works fine, thus no reason for failure.)

But no rumble signal, nowhere.

I tried to assign the signal outputs to my external second USB soundcard (Creative Omnisound 5.1) by resetting Simvibe and starting from the scratch on, but still no result.

Then assigned my other built in sound card Asus Realtek in SimVibe. Tried the sound cards outputs green and black. Didn't work either.

It seems as if SimVibe simply doesn't address properly the chosen sound card.

Any idea? (Thanks!)

GrimeyDog
19-11-2017, 20:31
Haiden, help would be highly appreciated:

i bought Simvibe, installed it effortlessly, set it to motionless and addressed (checkbox Enable SimVibe Extensions) it to my onboard sound card Asus Essence II 7.1 (wheel, seat, shifter, pedal) because i only have 1 buttkicker that i wanted to bind with the "seat". So i left "Enable SimVibe Chassis" un-checked.

SimVibe preset for the "seat" contains gear change, collision, road bumps and something else, all switched on. I left this to what is was by default. So now (since i choose the Asus sound card) i expected the output signal (for "seat") coming out from one of the 8 (7.1) available cinch outputs (acc. to set up guide: green or black output cinch). I checked all 8 cinch outputs by connecting them to the buttkicker amplifier. (The entire buttkicker signal chain works fine, thus no reason for failure.)

But no rumble signal, nowhere.

I tried to assign the signal outputs to my external second USB soundcard (Creative Omnisound 5.1) by resetting Simvibe and starting from the scratch on, but still no result.

Then assigned my other built in sound card Asus Realtek in SimVibe. Tried the sound cards outputs green and black. Didn't work either.

It seems as if SimVibe simply doesn't address properly the chosen sound card.

Any idea? (Thanks!)

I dont know the solution to this problem... I have read many reports of people having the same exact issue IIRC you Need 2 sound cards--> This is 1 of the reasons i didnt invest in a Sim vib set up.... can you Post updates on how you resolve the issue maybe i will invest in Sim vibe once im sure how to get it working with No issues ---> also i think buttkicker feel is very game dependent because the Buttkicker feel is totaly different with FM7 in a Better way Collisions, Gear shifts feel thunderous while Curbs and Bumps are Not as thunderous but are very Crisp and Sharp--> as it is right Now the 2x Buttkicker Left and Right set up feels Really Good... I have 3 Buttkickers in total but only use 2 once i am clear on how to set it up i will invest in Sim Vibe and hook up the 3rd Buttkicker for full chassis rumble effect as Next years Sim Rig upgrade project.

tennenbaum
19-11-2017, 21:30
I dont know the solution to this problem... I have read many reports of people having the same exact issue IIRC you Need 2 sound cards--> This is 1 of the reasons i didnt invest in a Sim vib set up.... can you Post updates on how you resolve the issue maybe i will invest in Sim vibe once im sure how to get it working with No issues ---> also i think buttkicker feel is very game dependent because the Buttkicker feel is totaly different with FM7 in a Better way Collisions, Gear shifts feel thunderous while Curbs and Bumps are Not as thunderous but are very Crisp and Sharp--> as it is right Now the 2x Buttkicker Left and Right set up feels Really Good... I have 3 Buttkickers in total but only use 2 once i am clear on how to set it up i will invest in Sim Vibe and hook up the 3rd Buttkicker for full chassis rumble effect as Next years Sim Rig upgrade project.

It's really a bit of a drag. Usually i get everything to run sooner or later, but this time with SimVibe i'm lost. I have 2 onboard sound cards and one external via USB. Even then - no matter which card i use for SimVibe's output, nothing works... :-( of course i'll be more than happy to let everybody know when problem got solved. 89 $ for a doubtful integration is a lot of money... (I really hope Haiden may know what's wrong...)

And there are more problems with SimVibe in the way: It seems as if i have to start the racing game from/with the SimVibe launcher, though how then to access the game in VR mode, since the SimVibe launcher just launches the game non-VR???

And yes Grimey you're right, FM7 works very fine with the buttkicker (daisy-chained L/R or even the subwoofer channel (!)). BUT the rumble signal has a delay of about half a second late to the original event that causes it - i mean the heck that ruins any immersion! I checked it with running the signal though the AV amplifier with optical connect, and i checked with direct out through external sound card - it doesn't make a difference. I start to give up hope...

I begin to understand why people are happy with their PS4 eco-system... (I think Sony should open up to a high-end PS solution. All the money gaming freaks like me put into PC and accessories - not working properly - is enough money to may make a Sony Highend solution work... And a PSx with 12+ Terraflops would still be cheaper than the PC version... The more complex and performance hungry games become, the more purely dedicated gaming systems will be first choice. It doesn't make much sense to pimp a PC that was thought to be an office machine to become a sophisticated gaming (VR) station... Dedicated gaming high end hardware will be the future, just my 2 cents...)

Haiden
19-11-2017, 23:53
It's really a bit of a drag. Usually i get everything to run sooner or later, but this time with SimVibe i'm lost. I have 2 onboard sound cards and one external via USB. Even then - no matter which card i use for SimVibe's output, nothing works... :-( of course i'll be more than happy to let everybody know when problem got solved. 89 $ for a doubtful integration is a lot of money... (I really hope Haiden may know what's wrong...)

And there are more problems with SimVibe in the way: It seems as if i have to start the racing game from/with the SimVibe launcher, though how then to access the game in VR mode, since the SimVibe launcher just launches the game non-VR???

And yes Grimey you're right, FM7 works very fine with the buttkicker (daisy-chained L/R or even the subwoofer channel (!)). BUT the rumble signal has a delay of about half a second late to the original event that causes it - i mean the heck that ruins any immersion! I checked it with running the signal though the AV amplifier with optical connect, and i checked with direct out through external sound card - it doesn't make a difference. I start to give up hope...

I'm not 100% sure about the SimVibe installation, because I haven't upgraded yet. But it does work from telemetry, so maybe you need to adjust the telemetry options in PCars2. I think the telemetry is a little goofy in the title, because even with Crew Chief, you have to set the in-game setting to PCars2 (or one I can't remember), but then you have to choose PCars1 64 Bit in the Crew Chief menu, because it won't work if you set it to PCars2. Go figure.

Have you tried it with AC? There are not issues with AC's telemetry output, as far as I know.

I don't think you can use the USB card. You need one of the internal cards.

As for the game launching. AC will launch in VR if you've set it in the settings. Other sims, like R3E use a launch option. I know there is a launch option for PCars2, as well. I read about it somewhere, but never set it up. But it's suppose to make the game launch automatically in whatever VR you're using, without the need to make the second selection after you start the game. Sounds like that might be what you're looking for. Maybe try Google'ing it. I don't remember where I saw it, might have been the RaceDepartment forums. You should also check the Accuforce forums. I've never visiting their forums, but I'm assuming they have a community online.

tennenbaum
20-11-2017, 11:08
I'm not 100% sure about the SimVibe installation, because I haven't upgraded yet. But it does work from telemetry, so maybe you need to adjust the telemetry options in PCars2. I think the telemetry is a little goofy in the title, because even with Crew Chief, you have to set the in-game setting to PCars2 (or one I can't remember), but then you have to choose PCars1 64 Bit in the Crew Chief menu, because it won't work if you set it to PCars2. Go figure.

Have you tried it with AC? There are not issues with AC's telemetry output, as far as I know.

I don't think you can use the USB card. You need one of the internal cards.

As for the game launching. AC will launch in VR if you've set it in the settings. Other sims, like R3E use a launch option. I know there is a launch option for PCars2, as well. I read about it somewhere, but never set it up. But it's suppose to make the game launch automatically in whatever VR you're using, without the need to make the second selection after you start the game. Sounds like that might be what you're looking for. Maybe try Google'ing it. I don't remember where I saw it, might have been the RaceDepartment forums. You should also check the Accuforce forums. I've never visiting their forums, but I'm assuming they have a community online.


I checked with AC as well, still not working. I read somewhere that the SimVibe App should respond with a "Connect" message when you start the game through SimVibe's launcher - which it doesn't with me. May be this is the main flaw resulting in the fact that i always get the games audio (not telemetry data/rumbles) to my shakers. As well as the "other" sound card" doesn't deliver the normal audio sound, but is just mute.

I guess i open a thread on the PC forum page...

But thanks anyway!!

Haiden
20-11-2017, 11:15
I checked with AC as well, still not working. I read somewhere that the SimVibe App should respond with a "Connect" message when you start the game through SimVibe's launcher - which it doesn't with me. May be this is the main flaw resulting in the fact that i always get the games audio (not telemetry data/rumbles) to my shakers. As well as the "other" sound card" doesn't deliver the normal audio sound, but is just mute.

I guess i open a thread on the PC forum page...

But thanks anyway!!

Not sure how that's possible, unless you've got that card set as your default sound device. Again, I'm not there yet, but theoretically, I would think the card that's using SimVibe shouldn't be set as the default sound device, and therefore wouldn't be sending audio regardless, if SimVibe was working or not. And the other card being mute, seems to suggest it's not set as your default sound device. Just out of curiosity, you've designated the correct default in Windows, right?

GrimeyDog
20-11-2017, 11:16
with the Last TV (Samsung 48in 4k Curved) I was running the Buttkickers straight from the TV 3.5mm head phone jack and every thing lined up spot on... I upgraded to a Samsung 55in QLED 4k Curved TV and it does Not have 3.5mm head phone out put jack so Now i run the Buttkickers from the Astro A40 Mix amp and again all Sound and Rumble Line up spot on -->In both cases i use the Optical audio for sound output to head phones .

are you running all audio from the PC??? or are you using TV for audio and PC for Buttkickers??? If the Latter is the case your TV/PC should have settings to sync the audio to external devices ---> the Audio delay issue is a commom problem when using multiple devices for audio/Signal output.

Makman43
20-11-2017, 12:22
Make sure your audio set up for card your using with Simvibe is set to quadrophonic mode. Then choose extension mode since your using one buttkicker and see if that helps(trying to remember because I had same issues setting mine up). Also for startup, start game in steam 1st then go to sim commander and select your game to link it up...at least with PC2.

GrimeyDog
20-11-2017, 23:43
The up coming race room Patch Looks very Promising-->They are finally making it 64bit!!! This will Improve R3E in Every way it wont be limited to just using 4GB of RAM-->VR will get a Nice improvement from this update also:)...Below is a Quote from the update Notes post. Very Exciting News here R3E feels really Good as it is ---> I suggest read the full post then what are your thoughts about the Changes....The Pressure is definitely on for the king of the Sim racing game crown!!!

https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/november-2017-update.9633/

"64bits
After the patch you will be able to choose between a 64bits executable or the traditional 32bits version. Provided that your operating system is 64bits, selecting the 64bits executable will allow the game to use as much RAM as it needs from your system, instead of the limited access to 4GB of the 32bits version.
Until now, the game was limited to use under 4GB of your available RAM, resulting in crashes when you attempted to load many cars on a big track like the Nürburgring Nordschleife.
After the update this will no longer be an issue for 64bit users.
NOTE: You need a 64-bit operating system and sufficient available RAM (4 GB+) to fully benefit from this update."

Haiden
21-11-2017, 13:50
The up coming race room Patch Looks very Promising-->They are finally making it 64bit!!! This will Improve R3E in Every way it wont be limited to just using 4GB of RAM-->VR will get a Nice improvement from this update also:)...Below is a Quote from the update Notes post. Very Exciting News here R3E feels really Good as it is ---> I suggest read the full post then what are your thoughts about the Changes....The Pressure is definitely on for the king of the Sim racing game crown!!!

https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/november-2017-update.9633/

"64bits
After the patch you will be able to choose between a 64bits executable or the traditional 32bits version. Provided that your operating system is 64bits, selecting the 64bits executable will allow the game to use as much RAM as it needs from your system, instead of the limited access to 4GB of the 32bits version.
Until now, the game was limited to use under 4GB of your available RAM, resulting in crashes when you attempted to load many cars on a big track like the Nürburgring Nordschleife.
After the update this will no longer be an issue for 64bit users.
NOTE: You need a 64-bit operating system and sufficient available RAM (4 GB+) to fully benefit from this update."

64 bit and the 360 wheel animations are very welcome. The half wheel animations are one of the reasons I don't play R3E as often as others. The GT3 updates sound very nice as well. Hopefully, sounds like they will also improve the FFB in those cars, which is another welcome change. R3E has always had mediocre FFB to me. Not bad, but on the lower end of my list.

GrimeyDog
21-11-2017, 23:47
64 bit and the 360 wheel animations are very welcome. The half wheel animations are one of the reasons I don't play R3E as often as others. The GT3 updates sound very nice as well. Hopefully, sounds like they will also improve the FFB in those cars, which is another welcome change. R3E has always had mediocre FFB to me. Not bad, but on the lower end of my list.

I have the Exact opposite opinion about R3E FFB... Once i found My FFB settings I actually think its really Good ---> in Fact Its Pcars2 that let Me know just How Good R3E FFB Really is...The FFB in R3E seems Crisper/Sharper or tad more Nuanced and Detailed.

Its Not that Pcars 2 FFB is Bad its just Not the Golden Standard for FFB --> well at least Not yet --> Maybe after a Few updates it could be .

FFB feel Pcars2 & R3E are Toe to Toe IMO with AC & Forza Toe to Toe!!! all of them are Good No one is better than the other--> But they all have their Strong /weak spots.

Edit: the Fact that you can adjust the FFB Gain per Car in R3E and AC and Pcars2 does Not have that FFB per Car Fine tuning feature is a Huge Negative for Pcars2 --> Hooefully that feature will get added in with a update.

Edit: This is also the reason i may skip this generation of DD wheels --> Sim Racing games are just Not to the point where they demand a DD for best performance and feel.

Haiden
22-11-2017, 11:39
I have the Exact opposite opinion about R3E FFB... Once i found My FFB settings I actually think its really Good ---> in Fact Its Pcars2 that let Me know just How Good R3E FFB Really is...The FFB in R3E seems Crisper/Sharper or tad more Nuanced and Detailed.

Its Not that Pcars 2 FFB is Bad its just Not the Golden Standard for FFB --> well at least Not yet --> Maybe after a Few updates it could be .

FFB feel Pcars2 & R3E are Toe to Toe IMO with AC & Forza Toe to Toe!!! all of them are Good No one is better than the other--> But they all have their Strong /weak spots.

Edit: the Fact that you can adjust the FFB Gain per Car in R3E and AC and Pcars2 does Not have that FFB per Car Fine tuning feature is a Huge Negative for Pcars2 --> Hooefully that feature will get added in with a update.

Edit: This is also the reason i may skip this generation of DD wheels --> Sim Racing games are just Not to the point where they demand a DD for best performance and feel.

Don't get me wrong, R3E is great. I just think the FFB is a little weak compared to AC and rF2. I don't think PCars2 FFB is going to get any better. It's too deep an issue to fix in updates and patches. I also don't think SMS sees anything wrong it. And that's fine. They just take a different approach to FFB. But it's huge improvement over PCars1, so I venture to guess they will make another leap forward in PCars3, and that might bring it a lot closer to AC/rF2 standard.

Sorry... AC & Forza being toe to toe is just a strange statement to me. I can enjoy Forza for what it is (and can do the same with GT Sport), but I don't consider either to be in the same class as rF2, AC, or R3E. But, to each his own. We all have our favorites for a variety of reasons.

Edit: If you tried a DD, I think you might change your mind. Not about getting one, but about them not being at a point where they can deliver higher fidelity. Again, I don't think it's a pace blowing change. But if you thought the jump from V2 to V2.5 was a major improvement, then I honestly don't see how you wouldn't feel even more of an improvement in fidelity with the jump from belt to DD. The better range and fidelity is there. That's not really something for debate. It's been tested on a variety of DD bases. Whether or not you want one is a different story. I don't think need is the right word. No one needs a Fanatec wheel for sim racing, it's just something you want. Same with DDs.

tennenbaum
22-11-2017, 21:34
64 bit and the 360 wheel animations are very welcome. The half wheel animations are one of the reasons I don't play R3E as often as others. The GT3 updates sound very nice as well. Hopefully, sounds like they will also improve the FFB in those cars, which is another welcome change. R3E has always had mediocre FFB to me. Not bad, but on the lower end of my list.

me too. the half wheel animation is just too odd. Especially in VR. And the GUI is very "dry". Though I'd like to get more familiar with the game.

tennenbaum
22-11-2017, 21:42
with the Last TV (Samsung 48in 4k Curved) I was running the Buttkickers straight from the TV 3.5mm head phone jack and every thing lined up spot on... I upgraded to a Samsung 55in QLED 4k Curved TV and it does Not have 3.5mm head phone out put jack so Now i run the Buttkickers from the Astro A40 Mix amp and again all Sound and Rumble Line up spot on -->In both cases i use the Optical audio for sound output to head phones .

are you running all audio from the PC??? or are you using TV for audio and PC for Buttkickers??? If the Latter is the case your TV/PC should have settings to sync the audio to external devices ---> the Audio delay issue is a commom problem when using multiple devices for audio/Signal output.

Here some of my findings, thoughts and solutions regarding my SimVibe experiences, plus some annoying Rift issues: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57611-Please-Help-Problem-with-SimVibe&p=1428053&viewfull=1#post1428053

Briefly: If all works eventually together it's great. - But far from convenient to set up and start every time... And i love my buttkicker (with SimVibe) :p

BTW: Yes, the sound delay is much less (thus better) using the audio out (to earphones) of the TV set (via HDMI), than the AV receiver toslink to loudspeaker signal chain. I assume best would be an AV Receiver with 4K HDR HDMI in/out... $$$... ;-(

What's next? Full motion rig? Hell no :-) Next pCars2 patch would be better!

Haiden
24-11-2017, 14:43
me too. the half wheel animation is just too odd. Especially in VR. And the GUI is very "dry". Though I'd like to get more familiar with the game.

It's worth it. It was my go-to sim for quite some time after I shelved PCars1. The AI can be pretty competitive and fun, very human like. You can even increase the chances of them making an error by putting pressure on them. It also has a few tracks not present in AC and other titles. Just make sure you buy the content through the game, and not through Steam. The game will grant you discounts based on your current inventory. So if you already own three cars in a GT3 pack you're about to purchase, it will apply a discount for the cost of the cars you already own. I don't think that happens if you purchase them through Steam.

It's not as pretty as PCars or AC. The graphics are more comparable to rF2. But I believe it's the best sim available for overall race experience, as it allows you to apply all rules for specifics classes, when it comes to pits, refueling, number of races, qualification, and flags. I don't know any other sim with such a comprehensive working rule set.

Haiden
24-11-2017, 16:14
Just saw Fanatec's new McLaren rim. Very nice--F1 style dual clutch option and more. :)

It's only $169 for the Black Friday sale, so I'm going to go ahead and pre-order. Also, it's looking like there are more accessories like this coming down the pipe, so budget-wise, the V2.5 is looking like a better option right now. :)

tennenbaum
25-11-2017, 15:23
My recently mentioned Rift Issues were caused by an HDMI connector. Obviously the 4K 60Hz signal is extremely sensitive to cable/ connectors issues. Even if you buy the expensive cables you may face erratic black screens... The problem is, if you want to connect the Rift via Display Port of the Graphics Card you need at least one more cable that means at least one more plug connector. And that can be the one too much. (Me and the support believed it's a Graphic Card issue - but it wasn't...)

Haiden
25-11-2017, 16:14
My recently mentioned Rift Issues were caused by an HDMI connector. Obviously the 4K 60Hz signal is extremely sensitive to cable/ connectors issues. Even if you buy the expensive cables you may face erratic black screens... The problem is, if you want to connect the Rift via Display Port of the Graphics Card you need at least one more cable that means at least one more plug connector. And that can be the one too much. (Me and the support believed it's a Graphic Card issue - but it wasn't...)

Not sure what you mean. I have my Rift connected directly to an Insignia Display Port to HDMI adapter. It works fine. The image was clearer with the Display Port adapter than it was with a straight HDMI connection, so that's what I've using since I bought it.

Hopefully, the CV2 will have native Display Port connections, not sure why the CV1 doesn't. :confused:

GrimeyDog
26-11-2017, 01:04
Just saw Fanatec's new McLaren rim. Very nice--F1 style dual clutch option and more. :)

It's only $169 for the Black Friday sale, so I'm going to go ahead and pre-order. Also, it's looking like there are more accessories like this coming down the pipe, so budget-wise, the V2.5 is looking like a better option right now. :)

i ordered that Rim too:D I also ordered the CSW Q/R Hub attachment for it!!! I think that was brilliant idea that Fanatec offered a interchangeable QR system rather than making 2 rims of the same model --> Just sucks that the QR is $99.00!!! i think that's a tad bit High:p

If you didn't catch it Buttkickers are on sale use promo code "THANKS" to get 25% off!!! Its a pretty Nice discount from $169.xx to $127.xx with tax and free shipping!!! I just ordered My 4th 1 so Now in complete for full chassis Rumble -->think I'm going to wait on a better Sim Vibe solution before i hook them all up.

GrimeyDog
26-11-2017, 01:15
My recently mentioned Rift Issues were caused by an HDMI connector. Obviously the 4K 60Hz signal is extremely sensitive to cable/ connectors issues. Even if you buy the expensive cables you may face erratic black screens... The problem is, if you want to connect the Rift via Display Port of the Graphics Card you need at least one more cable that means at least one more plug connector. And that can be the one too much. (Me and the support believed it's a Graphic Card issue - but it wasn't...)

You need the Right display port adapter Not all display port adapters will give you 4k @60 FPS--> i tested a few of them and most of them lock you in at 30FPS a 4k---> what i did is Run the TV from 4k Display port to HDMI adapter and i use the HDMI on GPU for the Rift.

I bought this 1 from Microcenter you can order it off like but make sure it says 4K @ 60Htz

GrimeyDog
26-11-2017, 01:26
Wow!!! Just found a Old pic of how the Man Kave started off ---> This pic has to be 12 to 15yrs old because Im playing Project Gotham on the XB360!!! Big Change from then till Now --> i thought i was hard core racer using a game pad!!!

GrimeyDog
26-11-2017, 02:14
Don't get me wrong, R3E is great. I just think the FFB is a little weak compared to AC and rF2. I don't think PCars2 FFB is going to get any better. It's too deep an issue to fix in updates and patches. I also don't think SMS sees anything wrong it. And that's fine. They just take a different approach to FFB. But it's huge improvement over PCars1, so I venture to guess they will make another leap forward in PCars3, and that might bring it a lot closer to AC/rF2 standard.

Sorry... AC & Forza being toe to toe is just a strange statement to me. I can enjoy Forza for what it is (and can do the same with GT Sport), but I don't consider either to be in the same class as rF2, AC, or R3E. But, to each his own. We all have our favorites for a variety of reasons.

Edit: If you tried a DD, I think you might change your mind. Not about getting one, but about them not being at a point where they can deliver higher fidelity. Again, I don't think it's a pace blowing change. But if you thought the jump from V2 to V2.5 was a major improvement, then I honestly don't see how you wouldn't feel even more of an improvement in fidelity with the jump from belt to DD. The better range and fidelity is there. That's not really something for debate. It's been tested on a variety of DD bases. Whether or not you want one is a different story. I don't think need is the right word. No one needs a Fanatec wheel for sim racing, it's just something you want. Same with DDs.

Don't get me wrong AC is still More Race simulator and Forza7 is still arcade racing what i mean is the way they create Wheel weight/FFB and Wheel response Feels the same.

Now that you can Play Forza7 on PC its a Totally Different FFB than the XBox1!!! Matter of fact you can play it with your wheel in PC mode with any wheel Rim on PC --> Playing it on PC it will work if you put your wheel in XBox1 Mode but then the FFB feels Totally Borked up like it does on XB1!!! I always had the feeling that MS New FFB protocol for XBox1 was screwed up but this totally proves it!!! I don't know why MS doesn't Fix that its totally ruining the Xbox racing Experience.

FM7 on PC It actually Feels really really Good---> Graphics wise its krushing everything out there even Pcars2 at this point --> DX12 is a beast!!! I don't know what tricks it uses but i don't think SLI is active and 20+ car grid 60FPS and not a Stutter even in rain its super silky smoooth!!! also PC and GPU Temps stay Really Low!!! CPU maybe runs about the same Temp but GPU stays Below 70* even after hours of play!!!

Have you tried FM7 on PC yet??

As far as DD wheels are concerned I'm sure they are better in some way or the other but I don't think games demand a DD wheel yet for best performance and feel --> having a v2 & v2.5 for direct hands on comparison the step up in Subtle FFB feel and fidelity of the v2.5 was huge IMO The Drag Free wheel center + 1000htz really added alot of FFB feel to the center of the wheel and even throughout the entire turning range and even though the total FFB output of the wheel is the same it feels to be stronger because of smoother/faster FFB ramp up ---> I'm sure that a DD wheel will give even more feel but as you stated not every 1 needs a Fanatec wheel for Sim racing i feel the same about DD wheels until Sim Racing Physics Really Demand it for best FFB feel and Performance <--- As it is right Now its want -vs- need --> i do believe the day will come that DD will be needed for best sim racing experience sorta just like how Buttkickers totally transform racing or gaming in general by giving extra tactile Feed back... Once you go Buttkickers you don't want to game without them.

inthebagbud
26-11-2017, 06:30
i ordered that Rim too:D I also ordered the CSW Q/R Hub attachment for it!!! I think that was brilliant idea that Fanatec offered a interchangeable QR system rather than making 2 rims of the same model --> Just sucks that the QR is $99.00!!! i think that's a tad bit High:p.

Really like that wheel and kinda gives me the f1 fix you cant get with the v2 on xbox but Iam I right in thinking you need the QR to allow the wheel to work with the v2 or 2.5 but is not included with wheel

What's included

CSL Elite Steering Wheel McLaren GT3
Racing style button caps​
Exchangeable Simplified Quick Release ​
Allen key 5mm
Fixation screw M6 x 18mm (flat head) for Simplified Quick Release
Quick Guide

GrimeyDog
26-11-2017, 07:05
Really like that wheel and kinda gives me the f1 fix you cant get with the v2 on xbox but Iam I right in thinking you need the QR to allow the wheel to work with the v2 or 2.5 but is not included with wheel

What's included



CSL Elite Steering Wheel McLaren GT3
Racing style button caps​
Exchangeable Simplified Quick Release ​
Allen key 5mm
Fixation screw M6 x 18mm (flat head) for Simplified Quick Release
Quick Guide



You can use it with the CSL QR that comes with it --> best way to describe it it snaps on and off kinda like a metal watch band and you Need a Screw to lock it in place ---> its Not the same as the QR that's on CSW Rims with the Slide back Hub and ball bearings that lock it in place <-- you can use a screw with this type also but i Never use it because its noy needed.

Haiden
26-11-2017, 15:02
You need the Right display port adapter Not all display port adapters will give you 4k @60 FPS--> i tested a few of them and most of them lock you in at 30FPS a 4k---> what i did is Run the TV from 4k Display port to HDMI adapter and i use the HDMI on GPU for the Rift.

I bought this 1 from Microcenter you can order it off like but make sure it says 4K @ 60Htz

When I tested the two, the Rift looked a lot better when it was connected via the Display Port adapter, instead of HDMI. I started with the Display Port connected to the TV, by assumption I guess. Then a month later tried it the other way after someone mentioned it, and things looked a lot better. Might depend on the adapter, though.

Haiden
26-11-2017, 15:10
Have you tried FM7 on PC yet??

No. For me it's No VR = No Buy. I just can't go back to 2D. Everytime I try, I quickly get frustrated and tired of relearning the depth translation. The graphics also don't work for me anymore. I know they are sharper and better, but even when I run them on Ultra, I feel like I'm watching the game, instead of being in it.

I tried Longbeach the other day in PCars2 in 2D. That's a tough one to transition to, because coming from VR, most of the corners are hard to see in 2D, because there's no depth. But the thing that upset me the most, was the last turn. In VR, I can get super close to that wall at the hairpin, like centimeters away, because I can see it clear as day in my peripheral. In 2D, it almost a guessing game. I can only see it for a few seconds. Unless VR dies off for some reason and developers stop supporting it, I'm not going back...LOL.

Haiden
26-11-2017, 15:21
i ordered that Rim too:D I also ordered the CSW Q/R Hub attachment for it!!! I think that was brilliant idea that Fanatec offered a interchangeable QR system rather than making 2 rims of the same model --> Just sucks that the QR is $99.00!!! i think that's a tad bit High:p

Yeah... having to buy that piece, just makes it the same price as their other rims. But I get it. A lot of CSL owners balk at the prices of true QR rims. Hard to believe that little piece is a $100 of the price, though.

I decided to hold off. If the grips had been leather or Alcantara, I would have got it, but they look like that hard rubber that the original CSL rim used, and I hated that. I haven't used that rim in ages. I'd buy it for $169, but I don't like the clip on connection. I change rims often, and that would be a pain.

What really gave me paused, though was that it's a CSL rim. The CSL series products are fine, but they are Fanatec's low end series. And $268 seemed a little much for a CSL rim. The Clubsport line is the mid tier. And the Podium Series will be the top. They've already said they have Podium series rims and accessories coming. I'm sure they will be more high end that the CSL rims. I'm getting tired waiting for them to release some info, but if I bought this one, and then six months from now see a bad-ass F1 style rim in the Podium Series, I'll just kick myself for wasting the cash. I think I'm on hiatus from Fanatec hardware until they release the Podium products.

Haiden
28-11-2017, 11:13
So the Fanatec Black Friday sale for the McLaren rim wasn't actually a "sale". I just got an email announcement, clicked through, and it's still $169. :confused: That seems a little shady.

Bealdor
28-11-2017, 11:14
Yo Grimey, do you want us to move your thread to the PCARS 2 subforums?

Ekay.jay
28-11-2017, 11:22
So the Fanatec Black Friday sale for the McLaren rim wasn't actually a "sale". I just got an email announcement, clicked through, and it's still $169. :confused: That seems a little shady.


I read they extended the preorder through today because they had website issues on Black Friday and most of Saturday.

tennenbaum
29-11-2017, 22:05
Wow!!! Just found a Old pic of how the Man Kave started off ---> This pic has to be 12 to 15yrs old because Im playing Project Gotham on the XB360!!! Big Change from then till Now --> i thought i was hard core racer using a game pad!!!

Ha, on first sight i just thought you'd cleaned up a bit...

tennenbaum
29-11-2017, 22:09
No. For me it's No VR = No Buy. I just can't go back to 2D. Everytime I try, I quickly get frustrated and tired of relearning the depth translation. The graphics also don't work for me anymore. I know they are sharper and better, but even when I run them on Ultra, I feel like I'm watching the game, instead of being in it.

I tried Longbeach the other day in PCars2 in 2D. That's a tough one to transition to, because coming from VR, most of the corners are hard to see in 2D, because there's no depth. But the thing that upset me the most, was the last turn. In VR, I can get super close to that wall at the hairpin, like centimeters away, because I can see it clear as day in my peripheral. In 2D, it almost a guessing game. I can only see it for a few seconds. Unless VR dies off for some reason and developers stop supporting it, I'm not going back...LOL.

Me neither. SMS should be praised every day to implement VR in their game this beautifully!!! BTW: Did you also notice, that since patch 1.3 the vR picture is a tad sharper?

tennenbaum
29-11-2017, 22:22
When I tested the two, the Rift looked a lot better when it was connected via the Display Port adapter, instead of HDMI. I started with the Display Port connected to the TV, by assumption I guess. Then a month later tried it the other way after someone mentioned it, and things looked a lot better. Might depend on the adapter, though.

I couldn't detect a difference connecting the Rift with DP or HDMI. (but since you say so i have to give it another try!) Though if you connect the monitor with DP you can't have HDR on the monitor (if your monitor is HDR ready), instead of using the HDMI out of the graphics card.

I also agree, that -unbelievable!- the cables and connectors/adapters are the weakest part in the signal chain. SHAME on the third party manufacturers!! Try and error is the only way to find the ones that work (despite their 'fantasy' specs they print on their sales boxes). That way you can spend serious amounts of money for crap.

I have no clue, why nVidea, Oculus & Co do not stop that BS and provide their own "reference" labeled and manufactured high quality cables. Hundred of thousands of failing and frustrated support hours wasted could become obsolete in a sec...

tennenbaum
29-11-2017, 22:30
Don't get me wrong AC is still More Race simulator and Forza7 is still arcade racing what i mean is the way they create Wheel weight/FFB and Wheel response Feels the same.

Now that you can Play Forza7 on PC its a Totally Different FFB than the XBox1!!! Matter of fact you can play it with your wheel in PC mode with any wheel Rim on PC --> Playing it on PC it will work if you put your wheel in XBox1 Mode but then the FFB feels Totally Borked up like it does on XB1!!! I always had the feeling that MS New FFB protocol for XBox1 was screwed up but this totally proves it!!! I don't know why MS doesn't Fix that its totally ruining the Xbox racing Experience.

FM7 on PC It actually Feels really really Good---> Graphics wise its krushing everything out there even Pcars2 at this point --> DX12 is a beast!!! I don't know what tricks it uses but i don't think SLI is active and 20+ car grid 60FPS and not a Stutter even in rain its super silky smoooth!!! also PC and GPU Temps stay Really Low!!! CPU maybe runs about the same Temp but GPU stays Below 70* even after hours of play!!!

Have you tried FM7 on PC yet??

As far as DD wheels are concerned I'm sure they are better in some way or the other but I don't think games demand a DD wheel yet for best performance and feel --> having a v2 & v2.5 for direct hands on comparison the step up in Subtle FFB feel and fidelity of the v2.5 was huge IMO The Drag Free wheel center + 1000htz really added alot of FFB feel to the center of the wheel and even throughout the entire turning range and even though the total FFB output of the wheel is the same it feels to be stronger because of smoother/faster FFB ramp up ---> I'm sure that a DD wheel will give even more feel but as you stated not every 1 needs a Fanatec wheel for Sim racing i feel the same about DD wheels until Sim Racing Physics Really Demand it for best FFB feel and Performance <--- As it is right Now its want -vs- need --> i do believe the day will come that DD will be needed for best sim racing experience sorta just like how Buttkickers totally transform racing or gaming in general by giving extra tactile Feed back... Once you go Buttkickers you don't want to game without them.

I agree with F7 looking good, but did you check out GTS on a 4K HDR monitor? IMHO it's the best looking racing game so far, even better looking than all racing games on HighEnd PCs. It's really addictive. Their lighting engine is a miracle to me. Though, SMS rules, since their VR implementation is nothing less then reference to me. And physics and FFB (with JS help) got really satisfying now. :-) Last, you convinced me to get the buttkicker, ...and i love it.

tennenbaum
29-11-2017, 22:45
i ordered that Rim too:D I also ordered the CSW Q/R Hub attachment for it!!! I think that was brilliant idea that Fanatec offered a interchangeable QR system rather than making 2 rims of the same model --> Just sucks that the QR is $99.00!!! i think that's a tad bit High:p

If you didn't catch it Buttkickers are on sale use promo code "THANKS" to get 25% off!!! Its a pretty Nice discount from $169.xx to $127.xx with tax and free shipping!!! I just ordered My 4th 1 so Now in complete for full chassis Rumble -->think I'm going to wait on a better Sim Vibe solution before i hook them all up.

Sorry for clustering the thread, instead of posting one post for all the topics!

Anyway. Get the SimVibe. It's worth its money. Even more the more kickers you got ;-) Seriously. Best are the "engine vibration harmonics" No way to get it without SimVibe. You'll like that kind of massage:cool:

GrimeyDog
30-11-2017, 13:35
Yo Grimey, do you want us to move your thread to the PCARS 2 subforums?

Yes can you do that please

Bealdor
30-11-2017, 13:39
Moved to PCARS 2 forum.

GrimeyDog
30-11-2017, 14:24
Thanks:)

GrimeyDog
30-11-2017, 14:50
I agree with F7 looking good, but did you check out GTS on a 4K HDR monitor? IMHO it's the best looking racing game so far, even better looking than all racing games on HighEnd PCs. It's really addictive. Their lighting engine is a miracle to me. Though, SMS rules, since their VR implementation is nothing less then reference to me. And physics and FFB (with JS help) got really satisfying now. :-) Last, you convinced me to get the buttkicker, ...and i love it.

I havent tried GTS yet Im debating if i should order the piece to make the wheel work with PS4 --> I dont have the PS4 pro <-- 4k version --> I also doubt that i will buy it Sony Needs to step out of the Dark and Make GTS work with PC Now.

Im Really WOWED by just How Good FM7 feels and Looks on PC ---> DX12 is a Beast even at 4k with a solid 60FPS No FPS Stutters or Notable FPS Drops the GPU Never gets above 70°F!!!

FM7 is alotta Fun and a Nice Break from Hard Core Sim Racing all the time.


Get the SimVibe. It's worth its money. Even more the more kickers you got ;-) Seriously. Best are the "engine vibration harmonics" No way to get it without SimVibe. You'll like that kind of massage:cool:

My 4th Buttkicker came yesterday!!! Once i figure out the Best Front mounting spots for them i will invest in Sim Vibe:yes:

The Buttkicker 25% off sale was Huge!!! Reg $169.××× - 25% came out to $127.××× Shipped!!!

The 1 playing Left other playing Right config feels reely Good ---> Also the RS1 is Super Solid so i can actually feel the Steering wheel Rumbles and Vibrations going through the entire Rig!!! If it gets any better i may Never Leave the Man Kave except to get Beer:very_drunk: LOL

poirqc
30-11-2017, 17:16
Congrats on your promotion! :D

But the title is misleading... You need to add MEGA thread! :D

GrimeyDog
30-11-2017, 18:49
Congrats on your promotion! :D

But the title is misleading... You need to add MEGA thread! :D

Getting Promoted really made my day that's the truth:o and it really put a Smile on My face:)

Thanks to All that participated and Helped to make this a Mega thread:applause: it is All of us that made this thread happen:yes:

GrimeyDog
01-12-2017, 02:28
Pcars2 after the Gt3 BOP update I have been testing all the Gt3 cars with stock set ups and they are all Running Very close times within .250 of each other:applause:
Cars Tested Gt3 Class only so far ---> Porsche 911 GT3R, Gt3 Ferrari 488, Nissan GT-R Gt3, BMW M6 Gt3

Testing track is Watkins short --> even the Porsche can hit a 1:08.9xx with the Default/stock tune W/Hard Slicks--> only fuel was adjusted to 25gal--> Fastest lap was done in online race 1:08.7xx!!!

I do all Testing with Fuel and Tire Wear Real, No Assist, Default Car set W/Hard Slicks --> up Only fuel is adjusted to 25gal for every car...that's about 10 laps but may vary per car.

I think testing with Stock set up is the best way to judge and test BOP because what you really want to judge is how well the car's perform in their default state when testing it on or for a forum basis because tuning will vary from person to person 1 person may like a Low down force set up so they gain speed on the straights but this can cause them to lose time in corners --> another person favors high Down force set up so they lose time on straights but gain time in corners because of more Grip due to higher DF ---> both people may end up running the same exact or very close times so what really matters most is consistency. The best set up is always the 1 you are most comfortable driving --> it doesn't meant its quicker or faster car tune but it will be faster mostly because you are more familiar and consistent with it.

I love the Tire model you can push hard but you do feel the wear in the tires as they get hotter and hotter and you have to slow down or you will slide off the road ---> The days of Mindless hot lapping with no Strategic race plan or thought are Over!!!

Flat-6
01-12-2017, 06:20
Testing track is Watkins short -->


Sounds good. What about faster, longer tracks like Le Mans and Spa.

GrimeyDog
01-12-2017, 08:57
Sounds good. What about faster, longer tracks like Le Mans and Spa.

I Run those too but for Testing i like the Short Quick tracks i test 10 laps or More per car bigger tracks take too long... Watkins has 2 Long straights so you can get a idea of straight line speed advantage/Weakness ---> Also it has a Fast Chicane with a Nice selection of curves and a up hill off camber Elevation change with a quick Left so you can get a Good all around feel for alot of tracks in a quick short lap.... Watkins is a track with Really Good Road Bump feel too thats why its always My Go to track to test ---> My 2nd test track is Laguna Seca for Me between those 2 tracks if i can get a car around them with Good lap times then all the other tracks seem to line up and Drive Nicely provided i know the track:eagerness:

morpwr
01-12-2017, 10:58
Just saw this thread is back. :cool:

Roger Prynne
01-12-2017, 13:43
It's not back but just moved from the pCARS 1 forum to the pCARS 2 forum.

poirqc
01-12-2017, 14:38
Grimey, Try the Lambo GTO @ Watking Glen short. You'll spend some fun time there! :D

morpwr
01-12-2017, 14:45
Grimey, Try the Lambo GTO @ Watking Glen short. You'll spend some fun time there! :D

Unforynately the pagani still feels like pcars1:(

GrimeyDog
01-12-2017, 14:56
Grimey, Try the Lambo GTO @ Watking Glen short. You'll spend some fun time there! :D

Even better lets Race that tonight:eagerness:

The Gt3 Lambo Feels Good too!!!
Gt3 was sooo unbalanced before the update i have mostly been racing Gt4 <--- Great Fun and Very Challenging.

We have to to our Classic Me in Gt4 Ginetta vs your Gt4 Mustang!!! Those were Epic Races!!!

poirqc
01-12-2017, 17:24
Even better lets Race that tonight:eagerness:

The Gt3 Lambo Feels Good too!!!
Gt3 was sooo unbalanced before the update i have mostly been racing Gt4 <--- Great Fun and Very Challenging.

We have to to our Classic Me in Gt4 Ginetta vs your Gt4 Mustang!!! Those were Epic Races!!!

Yeah, for sure. But i need to tune the suspension first. I wasn't fond of the default loose setup. I'll see what the latest patch brought to the 302.

GrimeyDog
01-12-2017, 21:32
Yeah, for sure. But i need to tune the suspension first. I wasn't fond of the default loose setup. I'll see what the latest patch brought to the 302.

Im Still Running Stock Settings as usual they just seem to fit My driving style but when i start getting beat bad enough with cars and track that i know i will Start tuning but Not before then:very_drunk: cheers

writer21
02-12-2017, 18:34
Im Still Running Stock Settings as usual they just seem to fit My driving style but when i start getting beat bad enough with cars and track that i know i will Start tuning but Not before then:very_drunk: cheers

Yeah I usually run stable on almost all cars and then I tune a little depending on the track. I also run raw with the g27.

Roger Prynne
02-12-2017, 19:30
Interesting.....

Feel VR – Direct Drive Wheel And LC Pedals For Less Than $400?

http://www.bsimracing.com/feel-vr-direct-drive-wheel-and-lc-pedals-for-less-than-400/

GrimeyDog
03-12-2017, 00:56
Interesting.....

Feel VR – Direct Drive Wheel And LC Pedals For Less Than $400?

http://www.bsimracing.com/feel-vr-direct-drive-wheel-and-lc-pedals-for-less-than-400/


I was just about to post this info ---> This looks very interesting:yes: Looking at the 360w power supply it may very well b e a true DD wheel.

Link to web company page below
https://feelvr.game/

diesel97
03-12-2017, 01:39
I was just about to post this info ---> This looks very interesting:yes: Looking at the 360w power supply it may very well b e a true DD wheel.

Link to web company page below
https://feelvr.game/

If it is legit the next question would be if the software side of things are any good

poirqc
03-12-2017, 02:33
The He-Man casing looks aweful but i'd buy the package right away for that price! :D

poirqc
03-12-2017, 12:40
GD, You have to go below 1'29 for the 66' Stang ;)

GrimeyDog
05-12-2017, 23:00
GD, You have to go below 1'29 for the 66' Stang ;)

The GDog has heard your Request and it is full filled 1:29.260 in the 66 Stang W/Stock set up:cool:

I dunno how much more time stock set up has in it to gain... Maybe it can squeez to a 1:28.9xx <--- Maybe a big Maybe but im sure stock tune will be spent with Nothing more to give after that.

Edit: Holy Shizzle!!! i got it to a 1:28.744!!! Still Stock Set up.

poirqc
06-12-2017, 01:22
The GDog has heard your Request and it is full filled 1:29.260 in the 66 Stang W/Stock set up:cool:

I dunno how much more time stock set up has in it to gain... Maybe it can squeez to a 1:28.9xx <--- Maybe a big Maybe but im sure stock tune will be spent with Nothing more to give after that.

Edit: Holy Shizzle!!! i got it to a 1:28.744!!! Still Stock Set up.

You fast [expletive]! :D

I'll see what i can do.

spacepadrille
06-12-2017, 15:53
Im Still Running Stock Settings as usual they just seem to fit My driving style but when i start getting beat bad enough with cars and track that i know i will Start tuning but Not before then:very_drunk: cheers

Haha ! I'm reading you saying that since more than 2 years ! Maybe a day will come where GD will tune his cars... and from that day it will be impossible to beat him on the track !

tennenbaum
06-12-2017, 16:45
The GDog has heard your Request and it is full filled 1:29.260 in the 66 Stang W/Stock set up:cool:

I dunno how much more time stock set up has in it to gain... Maybe it can squeez to a 1:28.9xx <--- Maybe a big Maybe but im sure stock tune will be spent with Nothing more to give after that.

Edit: Holy Shizzle!!! i got it to a 1:28.744!!! Still Stock Set up.

Which track?!

poirqc
06-12-2017, 18:12
Which track?!

Watkin Glen Short.

Tennebaum, send me you Steam ID in a private message. Would be nice to race if a chance shows up!

GrimeyDog
07-12-2017, 11:30
Which track?!


Watkin Glen Short.

Tennebaum, send me you Steam ID in a private message. Would be nice to race if a chance shows up!

I put another #1 Watkins short the Opel Astra TCR:p i was just testing cars and Universal FFB again.

That car is a Blast to Drive!!! Great car class to Race!!!

GrimeyDog
07-12-2017, 11:39
Haha ! I'm reading you saying that since more than 2 years ! Maybe a day will come where GD will tune his cars... and from that day it will be impossible to beat him on the track !

For Me tuning cars is mostly about getting the car to match your driving style that's why i don't tune...I don't think suspension tuning really makes the cars Faster on a Full track basis because you may get more straight line speed with 1 tweek but lose cornering speed at the same time because of it....for Me its more about understanding the track and car as it is ---> Gear tweeking May have some benefit on a per track basis though but im too lazy and haven't even bothered to tweek any gears --->Yet:eagerness:

GrimeyDog
07-12-2017, 11:53
Does any one have a Blue print for tweeking the custom FFB files??? Im ready to get back in the FFB Tweeker Biz:yes:

While Pcars2 FFB feels Great right out of the box with the right settings <--- Seems that SMS Balanced the Global setttings well for us this time:yes: <--- This how ever opens another can of Worms ---> because of the lack of a in car Master finding a universal FFB setting that will feel good with every car is a Task!!! Wheel weight can vary drasticly between cars/Car Classes ---> How ever The v2.5 does really well because it can pick up a broad range of FFB signals and reproduce them Nicely even if the FFB signal is weak.

Im using
Raw
100
36
50
64

On whee FFB is 50% + or - depending on how a car feels. --> but i usually stay at 50% and all feels right.

These settings feel Really Good for Me even though the wheel weight between the Ferrari(Heavy) and Porsche(Light) are different ---> I take that to be the Norm because the 2 cars have different weight bias --> Edit:Note even though the Wheel weight Vary's from Car/Car class to car the FFB effects strength --> Curbs, Bumps feel balanced and pretty even through all of them.

Now that i have played Pcars2 for a while and understand the FFB in its Natural state I would like to tweek with the custom FFB file to see if i can get more out of what already seems to be great FFB.

I think that this is a mistake alot of people Make with the Car tuning and FFB --> They tune/tweek right away before they have a Good Feel for it in its Natural/Default state because the first Question is how would you know what the FFB/Cars Need if you havent taken time to understand them as they are first:indecisiveness:

Its a New Game with New Physics, Tire Model, Road texture the FFB and Cars are Not supposed to feel like the last Pcars or other games.

GrimeyDog
07-12-2017, 13:38
Watkin Glen Short.

Tennebaum, send me you Steam ID in a private message. Would be nice to race if a chance shows up!

yeah send it to Me too... I think i have you but i forget the Name.

tennenbaum
07-12-2017, 15:34
done :-)

poirqc
07-12-2017, 15:35
done :-)

I'm not playing that much either. Don't worry, it'll be fun anyway! Since i like to race odd combos, we'll probably be on the same ground! :D

tennenbaum
07-12-2017, 15:52
Does any one have a Blue print for tweeking the custom FFB files??? Im ready to get back in the FFB Tweeker Biz:yes:

While Pcars2 FFB feels Great right out of the box with the right settings <--- Seems that SMS Balanced the Global setttings well for us this time:yes: <--- This how ever opens another can of Worms ---> because of the lack of a in car Master finding a universal FFB setting that will feel good with every car is a Task!!! Wheel weight can vary drasticly between cars/Car Classes ---> How ever The v2.5 does really well because it can pick up a broad range of FFB signals and reproduce them Nicely even if the FFB signal is weak.

Im using
Raw
100
36
50
64



I use (with my T300; no clipping):

type: customs (JS file)
amplitude: 100
intensity: 55
tonality: 75
FX: 40

Never touched it since the beginning. And i'm quite fine with it.

AFAIK you can tweak the FFB settings on PC (only) more or less the same as in pCars1 by editing the FFB setting file (the one JS uses for his tweaks). Though fumbling with this file is to complicated for me, and nobody coded an app using this 'interface' yet.

tennenbaum
07-12-2017, 15:55
I'm not playing that much either. Don't worry, it'll be fun anyway! Since i like to race odd combos, we'll probably be on the same ground! :D

looking forward to it. looks like poirqc might join us :D
time zone is 6 hours difference. don't know about poirqc.

poirqc
07-12-2017, 17:03
looking forward to it. looks like poirqc might join us :D
time zone is 6 hours difference. don't know about poirqc.

I think i'm in the same Timezone as GD. But it might work on the weekends!

GrimeyDog
07-12-2017, 19:46
3:45pm EST tennenbaum is on Now we can have a go!!! im just getting set up to get on:very_drunk:

tennenbaum
07-12-2017, 20:31
gimme 60 min. so 5:30 (i guess)

Jezza819
08-12-2017, 04:54
Downloaded the patch and uh, where in the heck did the FFB go????? The wheel is as soft as a marshmallow and I can't feel any kerbs, bumps, or anything.

killer2293
08-12-2017, 16:57
Downloaded the patch and uh, where in the heck did the FFB go????? The wheel is as soft as a marshmallow and I can't feel any kerbs, bumps, or anything.

I am in the same boat. I cannot feel bumps, kerbs, nothing. I am running the same setup as you as well.

GrimeyDog
09-12-2017, 04:09
Downloaded the patch and uh, where in the heck did the FFB go????? The wheel is as soft as a marshmallow and I can't feel any kerbs, bumps, or anything.


I am in the same boat. I cannot feel bumps, kerbs, nothing. I am running the same setup as you as well.

I tested Xbox1 also and the curb, Bump, road and grass feel are almost totally Gone!!! WTF --> how ever the wheel weight and weight transfer feel are pretty good:yes: if they get the bump feel back in the xbox1 version it will be pretty Good --> the Wheel weight and Weight transfer just feels like a spongy wheel because the other FFB effects are Not there to shape and clearly define it.

Jezza819
09-12-2017, 04:51
I tested Xbox1 also and the curb, Bump, road and grass feel are almost totally Gone!!! WTF --> how ever the wheel weight and weight transfer feel are pretty good:yes: if they get the bump feel back in the xbox1 version it will be pretty Good --> the Wheel weight and Weight transfer just feels like a spongy wheel because the other FFB effects are Not there to shape and clearly define it.

It's a mess isn't it? Using yours and some other settings the cars just feel very sluggish and slow to turn. You can't flick anything through the corners like you could before the patch. It's very hard for me to stop a car also. I guess it's also because there is no feedback or resistance to feel what the brakes are doing.

I wonder if there are any other Fanatec users on Xbox 1 and NOT on Xbox One X that can report if the patch affected their FFB feel?

GrimeyDog
09-12-2017, 06:08
My Friday Night testing revelation ---> I finished testing FFB with Xbox1 and went back on P.C. Pcars2 and decided to leave my Xbox1 Forza Rim and hub on just in PC mode --> The Forza Rim has always been more comfortable for me to drive with because i like the Bigger thumb spacing and how the Rim is shaped at the where you grip it just fits My hands better than the Porsche Rim --> for Me the Porsche rim has always been a tad uncomfortable but its such a Nice Rim Rev lights, good button placement i learned to be comfortable with it:stupid:

I said all that to say this --> The Porsche rim has rumble motors built into it right in the palm area they never activate unless I'm in the wheel control panel testing screen and push the button to test them <--i often for get this:yes: The Forza Rim has No motors built into the wheel Rim:no: its just a Rim ---> But its a crazy WOW moment when your playing Pcars2 and you remember the fact there are No Motors in the wheel rim:no: That every small Vibration, jolt and tire scrub you feel in the wheel Rim is being made By the 1 servo motor that's in the wheel base!!! WOW!!! What a great wheel the v2.5 is but even more than that what a great job SMS did with FFB and Physics programming to be able to get the wheel to feel this good!!!

GrimeyDog
09-12-2017, 06:30
It's a mess isn't it? Using yours and some other settings the cars just feel very sluggish and slow to turn. You can't flick anything through the corners like you could before the patch. It's very hard for me to stop a car also. I guess it's also because there is no feedback or resistance to feel what the brakes are doing.

I wonder if there are any other Fanatec users on Xbox 1 and NOT on Xbox One X that can report if the patch affected their FFB feel?

Im Not even gonna get back into it but if your still trying to use GM FFB/Gain at 100% on Xbox1 then yeah you need to be He Man to turn the wheel!!!
Xbox1 GM FFB/Gain 100%:no: XBox1 I keep my gain @50% and also on wheel FFB @50% XB1 FFB is just too strong to use it at 100% on any game!!!

GrimeyDog
09-12-2017, 08:09
This is My Opinion/Breakdown of the FFB sliders and what they do and My suggestion of how and where to start tweeking the FFB sliders--> Note: this is MY opinion and No Need for Debate--> I'm open to talk about it but No hostile debates ---> you no like you no try:eagerness: you try you like then:very_drunk:

Flavour -->Raw
Gain------>100 <-- How strong FFB signal is to wheel, should be set according to wheel/what wheel can handle -->Not all wheels can handle 100%:no:
Volume---> 33 <-- add constant wheel weight to wheel
Tone-----> 50 <-- sets the balance between under and over steer--> will + or - FFB power to change wheel weight and create FFB feel
FX--------> 67 <-- Sets the strength of FFB Effects --> IMO FX= FFB FX(effects)

take a look the 2 settings that add power 33-->Wheel weight and 67 -->Bump, Curb & FFB effects feel i added them together to make the #'s =100 ---> The Tone setting will + or - Power from the FFB to create change in wheel weight and that creates the FFB feel i set tone to 50 --> I find that this gives Me Really Good feel with all cars ---> This may work for other wheels but you will Need to adjust the Volume to taste and wheel used.

I use a CSW v2.5 it can handle alot of FFB effects but lets say a TM or Logitec wheel rattles too much with High FFB FX or your just having a hard time getting it set up to feel Good and balanced --> Try this set the Volume/wheel weight that you like #??? first then add FX #??? to = 100 or what ever feels best --> I recommend starting at Volume #+ Tone #= 75 and work your way to 100 or where ever you find your sweet spot ---> now your Volume/wheel weight and FX/FFB FX should be balanced---> Now test drive with tone at 50 and + or - until it feels right for you---> The flavour and gain you will have to set according to the wheel used and personal FFB strength taste.

This is what worked for me and WOW I am Loving Pcars2 FFB!!! Holy shizzzle and its only going to get better with time and each update!!! Nice Great Job SMS:yes:

Edit: Note even though the wheel weight will Vary between Cars/ Car class i find this to be the Norm -->Ex: GT3 Porsche (Lighter wheel weight) VS Gt3 Ferrari (Heavier wheel weight) for Me this difference in wheel weight feels Natural because the cars Have Different weight Bias but Note that the FFB Effects Curb, Bump feel for all cars is Relatively Balanced and even with all cars.

IceShaft
09-12-2017, 11:04
This is My Opinion/Breakdown of the FFB sliders and what they do and My suggestion of how and where to start tweeking the FFB sliders--> Note: this is MY opinion and No Need for Debate--> I'm open to talk about it but No hostile debates ---> you no like you no try:eagerness: you try you like then:very_drunk:

Flavour -->Raw
Gain------>100 <-- How strong FFB signal is to wheel, should be set according to wheel/what wheel can handle -->Not all wheels can handle 100%:no:
Volume---> 33 <-- add constant wheel weight to wheel
Tone-----> 50 <-- sets the balance between under and over steer--> will + or - FFB power to change wheel weight and create FFB feel
FX--------> 67 <-- Sets the strength of FFB Effects --> IMO FX= FFB FX(effects)

take a look the 2 settings that add power 33-->Wheel weight and 67 -->Bump, Curb & FFB effects feel i added them together to make the #'s =100 ---> The Tone setting will + or - Power from the FFB to create change in wheel weight and that creates the FFB feel i set tone to 50 --> I find that this gives Me Really Good feel with all cars ---> This may work for other wheels but you will Need to adjust the Volume to taste and wheel used.

I use a CSW v2.5 it can handle alot of FFB effects but lets say a TM or Logitec wheel rattles too much with High FFB FX or your just having a hard time getting it set up to feel Good and balanced --> Try this set the Volume/wheel weight that you like #??? first then add FX #??? to = 100 or what ever feels best --> I recommend starting at 75 and work your way to 100 or where ever you find your sweet spot ---> now your Volume/wheel weight and FX/FFB FX should be balanced---> Now test drive with tone at 50 and + or - until it feels right for you---> The flavour and gain you will have to set according to the wheel used and personal FFB strength taste.

This is what worked for me and WOW I am Loving Pcars2 FFB!!! Holy shizzzle and its only going to get better with time and each update!!! Nice Great Job SMS:yes:

Edit: Note even though the wheel weight will Vary between Cars/ Car class i find this to be the Norm -->Ex: GT3 Porsche (Lighter wheel weight) VS Gt3 Ferrari (Heavier wheel weight) for Me this difference in wheel weight feels Natural because the cars Have Different weight Bias but Note that the FFB Effects Curb, Bump feel for all cars is Relatively Balanced and even with all cars.

Great analysis, thank you very much! I'm going to try these settings!

As I said somewhere else here, I learnt on my own "skin" that not every wheel can handle Gain at 100% (broken T300, got it replaced luckily), so I'm trying to find a good FFB setup that doesn't stress the wheel too much.
Lately I'm using Gain at 80-85% in the hope of both protecting the wheel and not losing too much feedback.
But I was wondering... Do you think that the FX is a high stressing factor for the wheel? I like to have it pretty high because it makes you feel the road and I love it.

Roger Prynne
09-12-2017, 11:24
Just posting this link in case any of you guys haven't seen it.

https://www.projectcarsgame.com/the-insiders-guide-episode-4.html?lang=en

poirqc
09-12-2017, 14:52
But it's been pretty clear by now that the Gain Slider is the "control panel" of the PS4 and XBOX. The only reason you need 100% on PC is that the control panel is accessible in windows.

If you put the platform aside, I think only Logitech wheel are meant to be run at 100%. If I'm not mistaken, Most T300 users on PC run the constant forces around 75%.

So yeah, on consoles, there's not problem running below 100%.

Edit - I mean, it's an official statement now! (https://www.projectcarsgame.com/the-insiders-guide-episode-4.html?lang=en)


—Gain: Gain determines how strongly, on a scale 0 – 100, you “feel” the Force Feedback. Adjust the Gain until you find a strength that suits your driving style. Be aware, however, that higher gain settings could result in what is known as Force Feedback clipping. This is when your FFB output is too high, and results in your wheel providing only resistance while dulling or deadening the actual detail of what you’re meant to be feeling, such as surface detail, wheel slip, and so on.

For the best results, PC-users should leave the Gain set to '100' and adjust either the 'Volume' setting, or the strength settings in their wheel software (outside the game) to prevent clipping. For console users, you are free to reduce the Gain if you're experiencing clipping, or if you want the Force Feedback to generally be weaker.

poirqc
09-12-2017, 15:43
I'll open a can of worms:

Steam Launch custom properties:

-ffb 600

I stumbled upon this by accident. Now i think it improved the FFB of my G27. Seems more responsive.

Essentially, i think it's placebo and i'm crazy.

Thoughts? :D

Haiden
09-12-2017, 16:04
I'll open a can of worms:

Steam Launch custom properties:

-ffb 600

I stumbled upon this by accident. Now i think it improved the FFB of my G27. Seems more responsive.

Essentially, i think it's placebo and i'm crazy.

Thoughts? :D

I believe that increases the refresh rate to 600Hz. I think DDs and the V2.5 scale to 600Hz automatically, but the V2 requires that line to set the rate. I can't remember what the PCars2 default rate is, but how much the code improves the feel depends on your wheel's refresh rate--600 being the minimum to get the full benefit.

GrimeyDog
09-12-2017, 16:58
Just posting this link in case any of you guys haven't seen it.

https://www.projectcarsgame.com/the-insiders-guide-episode-4.html?lang=en


What a Relief!!! Nope i had Not seen this before but it pretty much lines up with what My thoughts are:yes: Good to know I'm not crazy:stupid:

poirqc
09-12-2017, 17:46
I believe that increases the refresh rate to 600Hz. I think DDs and the V2.5 scale to 600Hz automatically, but the V2 requires that line to set the rate. I can't remember what the PCars2 default rate is, but how much the code improves the feel depends on your wheel's refresh rate--600 being the minimum to get the full benefit.

I tried that line because i stumbled upon a post that said Logitech well poll rate is 500Hz. Long story short, i tried few values(FFB changes based on what you enter) and ended up using 600, even if it's 100Hz above my wheel polling rate.

I too wonder what pCars 2 default polling rate is.

Haiden
09-12-2017, 18:39
I tried that line because i stumbled upon a post that said Logitech well poll rate is 500Hz. Long story short, i tried few values(FFB changes based on what you enter) and ended up using 600, even if it's 100Hz above my wheel polling rate.

I too wonder what pCars 2 default polling rate is.

I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty it was said to be below 500, so it should improve it.

Jezza819
09-12-2017, 19:01
Im Not even gonna get back into it but if your still trying to use GM FFB/Gain at 100% on Xbox1 then yeah you need to be He Man to turn the wheel!!!
Xbox1 GM FFB/Gain 100%:no: XBox1 I keep my gain @50% and also on wheel FFB @50% XB1 FFB is just too strong to use it at 100% on any game!!!

I've got Gain set to 100 but on the wheel I've got FF reduced to 50. Now if both were at 100 then you're correct. I need someone else to help me try and turn the wheel at those settings but 100 in game and 50 on the wheel is ok.


But it's been pretty clear by now that the Gain Slider is the "control panel" of the PS4 and XBOX. The only reason you need 100% on PC is that the control panel is accessible in windows.

If you put the platform aside, I think only Logitech wheel are meant to be run at 100%. If I'm not mistaken, Most T300 users on PC run the constant forces around 75%.

So yeah, on consoles, there's not problem running below 100%.

Edit - I mean, it's an official statement now! (https://www.projectcarsgame.com/the-insiders-guide-episode-4.html?lang=en)

Us Fanatec users can also play with wheel strength on the wheel with the FF adjustment so finding that balance between the two settings is sometimes difficult.

GrimeyDog
09-12-2017, 19:41
I'll open a can of worms:

Steam Launch custom properties:

-ffb 600

I stumbled upon this by accident. Now i think it improved the FFB of my G27. Seems more responsive.

Essentially, i think it's placebo and i'm crazy.

Thoughts? :D


I tried that line because i stumbled upon a post that said Logitech well poll rate is 500Hz. Long story short, i tried few values(FFB changes based on what you enter) and ended up using 600, even if it's 100Hz above my wheel polling rate.

I too wonder what pCars 2 default polling rate is.

Hmmm this is Very interesting!!! It would be Good to know what the Default Refresh Rate is for Pcars2 and if it infact will use different Refresh Rates according to wheel used <--- This does seem very Possible because Pcars2 reads and knows what wheel your using and displays it in the FFB Graph.

Ian Bell can tell us Pcars2 Default Refresh rate and if that rate Scales accirding to wheel used... Any Dev or Mod that has this info please feel free to answer also Thanks in advance <--- Yes i believe and have faith that they will hear and answer our Questions:o

senna94f1
10-12-2017, 00:43
On patch 2.0 ps4 ,it use to show your wheel,

Since patch 3.0 it doesn't show the wheel at all, it just say SMS v ,

poirqc
10-12-2017, 02:19
I've got Gain set to 100 but on the wheel I've got FF reduced to 50. Now if both were at 100 then you're correct. I need someone else to help me try and turn the wheel at those settings but 100 in game and 50 on the wheel is ok.



Us Fanatec users can also play with wheel strength on the wheel with the FF adjustment so finding that balance between the two settings is sometimes difficult.

Yeah, Fanatec wheels have their build in memory that act act as a CP. But in the end, it's something similar. You set the desired strength in the wheel control panel. If it isn't accessible elsewhere, you set it in pCars.

GrimeyDog
10-12-2017, 02:36
On patch 2.0 ps4 ,it use to show your wheel,

Since patch 3.0 it doesn't show the wheel at all, it just say SMS v ,

Its tha same on PC i just Noticed that this afternoon... I thought it was strange i thought it might be because i was using the Forza Rim Hub on P.C. but i was going out and didnt have time to test another wheel Rim --> So i guess the SMS in place if the wheel being used is the Norm for tbis patch.

Jack Spade
10-12-2017, 08:30
I tried that line because i stumbled upon a post that said Logitech well poll rate is 500Hz. Long story short, i tried few values(FFB changes based on what you enter) and ended up using 600, even if it's 100Hz above my wheel polling rate.

I too wonder what pCars 2 default polling rate is.

Game tick rate is 600 hz, FFB tick rate is 600 hz default for high end wheels like CSW v2.5 and DD wheels, all other wheels 300 hz default.

GrimeyDog
10-12-2017, 15:31
Game tick rate is 600 hz, FFB tick rate is 600 hz default for high end wheels like CSW v2.5 and DD wheels, all other wheels 300 hz default.

Thanks for that info.

I tested Pcars2 with the v2 vs v2.5 and there is a Nice amount of FFB detail Difference between the 2 the drag free wheel center gives a Huge Leap in subtle FFB feel --> V2 feels Good v2.5 feels Amazing!!!

I'm using the Forza Rim and Xb1 wheel Hub and its really hard to figure that there are No Rumble motors inside the Wheel Rim because you can Feel sooo much subtle vibration/Rumble through the wheel rim it feels like its Vibrating right in the palm of you hand!!! The smaller forces really Shine through even when the Stronger forces are very active <-- weight transfer etc.

Fanatec may have made the dam v2.5 too good!!! i don't feel any need or Rush to get a DD wheel --> Even tough i just might depending on Fanatec DD wheel Price range.

poirqc
10-12-2017, 16:36
Game tick rate is 600 hz, FFB tick rate is 600 hz default for high end wheels like CSW v2.5 and DD wheels, all other wheels 300 hz default.

http://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/2922-interesting-info-on-torqueresponse-time/

I'm wondering why they SMS settled with a 300Hz polling rate for lower end wheels. Is it because the polling rate should be a fraction of the physics engine? Or 300Hz covered most wheel models?

Thanks,

tennenbaum
11-12-2017, 14:55
http://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/2922-interesting-info-on-torqueresponse-time/

I'm wondering why they SMS settled with a 300Hz polling rate for lower end wheels. Is it because the polling rate should be a fraction of the physics engine? Or 300Hz covered most wheel models?

Thanks,

The question is obvious:

Do we "300 Hz" lower wheel users benefit from setting polling rate to 600 Hz (and what do we loose by doing so)?

GrimeyDog
11-12-2017, 15:02
The question is obvious:

Do we "300 Hz" lower wheel users benefit from setting polling rate to 600 Hz (and what do we loose by doing so)?

Answer If you have a 300 liter Cup and 600 liters of juice how Much will the cup hold??? Still only 300 liters and everything else is over flow....

at least if you keep it set to 300 you will getting accurate FFB signal --> If you set it to 600 you will get Good signal but it could get Distortion because your feeding it more than it can process at 1 time ---> If the wheel cant keep pace it may put out FFB signal thats Jumping around and Not true to what your actually See VS Need to Feel... My best Guess. <--- Dont Quote Me i could be wrong.

morpwr
11-12-2017, 15:09
I'll open a can of worms:

Steam Launch custom properties:

-ffb 600

I stumbled upon this by accident. Now i think it improved the FFB of my G27. Seems more responsive.

Essentially, i think it's placebo and i'm crazy.

Thoughts? :D

Ive been using that for a while. I'm with you not sure if its placebo but I thought it felt better.

Haiden
11-12-2017, 15:28
Grimey,

Are you paying attention to the Fanatec X-mas Auctions. A set of V3 inverted pedals ended up selling for.... $11 f'ing dollars. That's insane!

A universal hub and Forza GT wheel combo went for $56, and a V2.5 base with the BMW rim sold off for $376 (would have been $750 list). New items/bundles everyday until the 24th. Bid window is only 2 hours, though.

The website is slow, though. So I bet it's hard to get in a last minute bid.

morpwr
11-12-2017, 16:00
Grimey,

Are you paying attention to the Fanatec X-mas Auctions. A set of V3 inverted pedals ended up selling for.... $11 f'ing dollars. That's insane!

A universal hub and Forza GT wheel combo went for $56, and a V2.5 base with the BMW rim sold off for $376 (would have been $750 list). New items/bundles everyday until the 24th. Bid window is only 2 hours, though.

The website is slow, though. So I bet it's hard to get in a last minute bid.


Really? I ignored that when I got the email figured it was some bs thing. For 11 dollars I would have bought them as a backup.lol Ill have to check that out.

GrimeyDog
11-12-2017, 16:15
I been trying to get a bid in!!! at those prices even if i end up with something i already have 2x its well worth it!!!

poirqc
11-12-2017, 16:45
How do i access that?

GrimeyDog
11-12-2017, 17:07
How do i access that?

Just sign up for a acct on the Fanatec Web site... You dont have to have prior purchase history:cool:

morpwr
11-12-2017, 17:20
Just sign up for a acct on the Fanatec Web site... You dont have to have prior purchase history:cool:

Wow that's pretty generous of them. I figured it was for previous customers only. I have their shifter already but somebody could really lucky if they were looking for stuff.

Haiden
11-12-2017, 18:18
Really? I ignored that when I got the email figured it was some bs thing. For 11 dollars I would have bought them as a backup.lol Ill have to check that out.

Same. I didn't actually look at it until this weekend. Then I clicked through and saw the past auctions and was like, "Damn!" LOL


I been trying to get a bid in!!! at those prices even if i end up with something i already have 2x its well worth it!!!

I know. You only get one bid, in $1 increments, so I'm pretty sure everyone waits until the last minute and then clicks. A lot of it probably just comes down to luck, and the reliability of their site, which is sometimes slow and times out on page loads. But the crazy thing is, during the week, there doesn't seem to be a lot of bidders. That's when the pedals went for $11, that means there were only 11 bids for brand new set of V3 pedals. Crazy!

Y22 Rydr
11-12-2017, 19:11
The first week was a closed auction to test the site. Since it opened to public the discount has been about 30%.

poirqc
11-12-2017, 19:27
The question is obvious:

Do we "300 Hz" lower wheel users benefit from setting polling rate to 600 Hz (and what do we loose by doing so)?

The first hand observation i saw was that odd values exagerated the rattling nature of the G27.

(Non scientific findings)
In the end, 600hz(500hz from a hardware perpective) helped the FFB around TDC while not effecting the rattling too much. Before i didn't really had a bad deadzone around TDC, but it wasn't really responsive. With 600Hz, it seems better... The other thing it might've change is the tire scrubing effect. The last one is far fetched. It's probably some noise from the loose gearing of the G27.

GrimeyDog
11-12-2017, 20:13
The question is obvious:

Do we "300 Hz" lower wheel users benefit from setting polling rate to 600 Hz (and what do we loose by doing so)?

Tough Question... But it seems that the Total FFB would be compressed into the 300Htz for certain wheels and that the Expanded FFB rate would be Raw for other wheels that can take more---> Ex 300Hz wheel May get 3 FFB Ranges 100Hz, 300Hz, 500Hz but all the FFB info is Condensed/ Compressed within the 3 FFB Chanels while a wheel with 1000Hz may get the Full Raw 100 thru 600Hz —>While there may be more info within that signal range it can only be felt because the wheel can process it ---> So infact a 300 Hz wheel can feel almost the same as a 1000Hz wheel its really just matter of if the user can pick up on the Difference in Subtle FFB feel ---> Ex I have Never used a DD wheel so with the v2.5 feeling IMO really Good i cant imagine a DD wheel being that much better... So i dont know what i may Missing.... Most of us will chase the FFB Unicorn for ever for No reason its just Human Nature.

Hmmm... I dont even know if im getting the Idea across right...Hmmmm.... Tennenbaum Help. LOL

Haiden
12-12-2017, 11:19
It's just the rate of refresh, how many times it updates the wheel on what it should be doing (i.e. changes in the FFB calculations). I don't think anything is compressed. A slower refresh rate, just means your device receives fewer updates, and therefore will have less subtly in the overall feel. At least that's my understanding of it.

GrimeyDog
12-12-2017, 11:38
It's just the rate of refresh, how many times it updates the wheel on what it should be doing (i.e. changes in the FFB calculations). I don't think anything is compressed. A slower refresh rate, just means your device receives fewer updates, and therefore will have less subtly in the overall feel. At least that's my understanding of it.

I agree with this but still Very confusing topic because what im wondering is because of the Different Flavours which we know has different FFB signal with Different Refresh rates is the FFB signal different also? thats why im wondering if 300Hz FFB info is compressed vs 600Hz being RAW

Edit almost Like Vsnc 30FPS, 60FPS, 120FPS they will all play smooth because the FPS is Capped at what the TV/Monitor can out out <-- like its a Vsync for Wheels Maybe???Could tbis be possible??? <-- Best way i can describe My thought on this matter.

morpwr
12-12-2017, 11:44
I agree with this but still Very confusing topic because what im wondering is because of the Different Flavours which we know has different FFB signal with Different Refresh rates is the FFB signal different also? thats why im wondering if 300Hz FFB info is compressed vs 600Hz being RAW

The refresh rate doesn't change because of the flavor. The only wheels I know of that get 600hz by default are the v2.5 and the accuforce. At least that's the way I understood it. I don't think you could compress the ffb signal to do that. Trying to fit everything from the 600hz into 300hz I think it would wind up just a forces stacked on top of each other with poor results. Remember hz is time based.

GrimeyDog
12-12-2017, 11:54
I made a edit check it out

morpwr
12-12-2017, 11:55
Me too.lol

morpwr
12-12-2017, 12:00
I made a edit check it out

I think you sort of get it. Basically if your wheel is lower then the game hz it will miss stuff with a higher game hz. So like in your case the v2.5 has a 600hz refresh and the game has 600hz its getting everything it can reproduce. If you had a t100 with a 300hz(just guessing) and used 600hz it probably wont see any improvement. Now if the wheel had 500hz and you used 600hz in game it would probably be better the 300hz in game.

Haiden
12-12-2017, 12:24
Think of it like this. The refresh rate is just what it says--the rate at which the wheel's data is refreshed. If both the game and your wheel are running at 600Hz, then your wheel receives every force calculation the sim puts out. If your wheel is running at 1000Hz, then you still get everything the 600Hz sim puts out; your wheel just could have received more updates. But since there were none, nothing is lost or gained. If you have a 300Hz wheel, then the game is sending updates faster than your wheel can receive them. Nothing is being compressed, but your wheel is basically only receiving every other update the sim sends. So you it will feel less refined, because your wheel is skipping a beat of information. Again, nothing is compressed, and the dynamic range in-game is not changed or diminished (assuming we're still at 600hz. Running the default will mean less refresh cycles from the sim, so that would make a difference). But at 600Hz, the difference is external, in how the wheel is receiving updates.

The thing I'm unsure about is whether or not a wheel that isn't capable of 600Hz suffers from the setting. Is the effect of skipping data benign, or is it like fps, where running higher refresh rates than your monitor can process results in tearing and other issues. I'm curious about that because I'm not sure why the default for lo-fi wheels is lower than what the sim is capable of. Why not just make it 600Hz for all, unless there's an issue with lo-fi wheels receiving updates faster than they can process them. IDK... that's a question for the devs, but if your wheel is running below 600Hz, it's worth finding out.

GrimeyDog
12-12-2017, 13:19
I think you sort of get it. Basically if your wheel is lower then the game hz it will miss stuff with a higher game hz. So like in your case the v2.5 has a 600hz refresh and the game has 600hz its getting everything it can reproduce. If you had a t100 with a 300hz(just guessing) and used 600hz it probably wont see any improvement. Now if the wheel had 500hz and you used 600hz in game it would probably be better the 300hz in game.

I totally get it...the info the wheel cant keep up with is just lost/Skipped over i was Just was wondering if SMS had made any optimizations to condense the FFB info because they took the time to programn in 2 Refresh rates into Pcars2

morpwr
12-12-2017, 13:22
I totally get it...the info the wheel cant keep up with is just lost/Skipped over i was Just was wondering if SMS had made any optimizations to condense the FFB info because they took the time to programn in 2 Refresh rates into Pcars2

I'm not sure you could condense it. Like I said before I think youd just wind up with a bunch of forces on top of each other if that was possible. But I could be wrong.

Jack Spade
12-12-2017, 13:54
600Hz only makes sense if the wheel is capable making use of it, a lofi wheel doesn´t gain anything and the CPU has more work to do for nothing. 300Hz means lower FFB resolution
not signal compression. AFAIK in AC it´s 333Hz for all type of wheels and many people seem to like FFB in this game.

GrimeyDog
12-12-2017, 14:16
600Hz only makes sense if the wheel is capable making use of it, a lofi wheel doesn´t gain anything and the CPU has more work to do for nothing. 300Hz means lower FFB resolution
not signal compression. AFAIK in AC it´s 333Hz for all type of wheels and many people seem to like FFB in this game.

With the v2.5 do you have to enter the -600Hz in the steam launch options or is it just 600Hz by default because Pcars2 reads your wheel.

Jack Spade
12-12-2017, 14:20
With the v2.5 do you have to enter the -600Hz in the steam launch options or is it just 600Hz by default because Pcars2 reads your wheel.

As mentioned before, CSW v2.5 and DD wheels 600Hz is default, no need to do anything.

Benja190782
12-12-2017, 16:34
As mentioned before, CSW v2.5 and DD wheels 600Hz is default, no need to do anything.

I'd like to ask you, Jack Spade.

Do you think that these FFB settings are good for the Thrustmaster TX wheel? (my setup is in my signature)

I mean they feel good, but only because I got the Steering Sensitive setting at 100. I couldn't catch all slides before I changed this to 100. On top of that my wheel feels much more tight at the center which feels a LOT better.

Anyway it's like there is way to much information for the TX to handle, so I have to turn down FX.

I'd like to know what a real Pro like you would do if you had the TX wheel and the Xbox One X to play PC2 on?

This is my current FFB settings, but with steering sensitive at 100.

247313

poirqc
13-12-2017, 00:47
600Hz only makes sense if the wheel is capable making use of it, a lofi wheel doesn´t gain anything and the CPU has more work to do for nothing. 300Hz means lower FFB resolution
not signal compression. AFAIK in AC it´s 333Hz for all type of wheels and many people seem to like FFB in this game.

In AC and AMS, you can select an option that send the FFB half rate, it'S 180 Hz in both iirc.

I'm not sure a lofi wheel doesn't benefit from a higher poling rate. FFB is an input\output system. The faster those input\output happens the better?

Jack Spade
13-12-2017, 08:16
In AC and AMS, you can select an option that send the FFB half rate, it'S 180 Hz in both iirc.

I'm not sure a lofi wheel doesn't benefit from a higher poling rate. FFB is an input\output system. The faster those input\output happens the better?

If a lofi wheel only has a FFB resolution of 300Hz due to construction limits how could it benefit from 600Hz thrown at it? Do you really think the "overspill" is digested
somehow and outsmarted the construction limits?

Jack Spade
13-12-2017, 08:53
I'd like to ask you, Jack Spade.

Do you think that these FFB settings are good for the Thrustmaster TX wheel? (my setup is in my signature)

I mean they feel good, but only because I got the Steering Sensitive setting at 100. I couldn't catch all slides before I changed this to 100. On top of that my wheel feels much more tight at the center which feels a LOT better.

Anyway it's like there is way to much information for the TX to handle, so I have to turn down FX.

I'd like to know what a real Pro like you would do if you had the TX wheel and the Xbox One X to play PC2 on?

This is my current FFB settings, but with steering sensitive at 100.

247313

Why steering sensitive at 100?....(50 is linear). Instead of that use a faster steering ratio on the car´s setup menu if you need to, makes the center more tight also.
But before you do so, set Gain higher. On PC this always should be at 100 for any wheel, Volume to adjust the level. As you are on console set the Gain level
as it´s suggested for your type of wheel in the PC driver. Note, Gain is a substitute for the missing driver on consoles.
Also note, Immersive now is quite similar to my standard mid comp file.

RaceNut
13-12-2017, 15:16
In AC and AMS, you can select an option that send the FFB half rate, it'S 180 Hz in both iirc.

I'm not sure a lofi wheel doesn't benefit from a higher poling rate. FFB is an input\output system. The faster those input\output happens the better?

When using the OSW-SimuCube, we have the option to set our preferred Hz (wheel-side of the conversion) in an extremely broad range; still, there are always going to be bottlenecks somewhere. In most cases, the game FFB output is it but, that's with a direct-drive wheel. The main differences when running lower Hz settings are slightly slower response and less detail but, even at 180Hz, it still produces great results using the OSW. Yes, I notice more fine detail at 680Hz but, lesser wheels are not able to produce it effectively anyway.

We may use encoders that use resolution reaching into the millions of PPR with unlimited range of Hz but, the only real difference it makes is a very subtle "Rubber-Quality" feel at lower filter settings. The bigger limitation of more mainstream wheels is going to be the hardware, not the game output being 180Hz however, one should not discount the value of "placebo" either.:D

SimonJ
13-12-2017, 15:26
I am using Jack's ffb standard DD file
with these settings on 20nm midge 10,000 ppr and SimuCube feels awesome adjust tone and volume on fly when in car
247349

poirqc
13-12-2017, 15:35
If a lofi wheel only has a FFB resolution of 300Hz due to construction limits how could it benefit from 600Hz thrown at it? Do you really think the "overspill" is digested
somehow and outsmarted the construction limits?

Encoder resolution and Wheel poling rate are 2 different things. The Logitech wheel as a maximum polling rate of 500Hz. So yeah, settings anything above that doesn't make a difference. But moving closer to the max rate a device can go may give better results.

If the default polling rate is lower than what the wheel can handle, moving it up might give different results.

I'm not saying the default rate is bad, i'm not saying i found a game changing setting. At the end of the day, a FFB wheel is just a device that moves left and right.

If nobody tested this settings on their wheels, we can't say what it does and what it doesn't. There's just too much information missing to come to a conclusion up front.

Jack Spade
13-12-2017, 17:05
Encoder resolution and Wheel poling rate are 2 different things. The Logitech wheel as a maximum polling rate of 500Hz. So yeah, settings anything above that doesn't make a difference. But moving closer to the max rate a device can go may give better results.

If the default polling rate is lower than what the wheel can handle, moving it up might give different results.

I'm not saying the default rate is bad, i'm not saying i found a game changing setting. At the end of the day, a FFB wheel is just a device that moves left and right.

If nobody tested this settings on their wheels, we can't say what it does and what it doesn't. There's just too much information missing to come to a conclusion up front.

Indeed for such a wheel -600Hz is the better choice.

Andrew_WOT
13-12-2017, 17:38
As mentioned before, CSW v2.5 and DD wheels 600Hz is default, no need to do anything.

How does it know that DD wheel is being used, or it does it for any wheel using Custom Wheel profile?

poirqc
13-12-2017, 17:41
How does it know that DD wheel is being used, or it does it for any wheel using Custom Wheel profile?

Probably comes from selecting a specific device that is elsewhere than the FFB flavor.

Andrew_WOT
13-12-2017, 18:24
Probably comes from selecting a specific device that is elsewhere than the FFB flavor.

I didn't mean Custom FFB Profile, Custom Wheel or whatever it's called in Device setup menu.

poirqc
13-12-2017, 21:48
I didn't mean Custom FFB Profile, Custom Wheel or whatever it's called in Device setup menu.

Yeah, you're right.

Since the custom profile can also be used with the most obscure Russian plastic wheel, I would go on the safe side and set it manually in the steam custom properties.

Gamer82678
17-12-2017, 12:51
Hello,
How are you all ?
Fine I hope ! 8^)
Happy Holidays ! 8^)
It’s been a while since I’ve chimed in to this thread.
I just want to say thank you for all that I’ve learned here ! 8^)
I will post reply soon !
Love you guys here ! 8^)

poirqc
17-12-2017, 12:57
Hello,
How are you all ?
Fine I hope ! 8^)
Happy Holidays ! 8^)
It’s been a while since I’ve chimed in to this thread.
I just want to say thank you for all that I’ve learned here ! 8^)
I will post reply soon !
Love you guys here ! 8^)

Happy Holidays!

GrimeyDog
17-12-2017, 15:38
Seasons Greetings and have a Merry Christmas:biggrin-new:

GrimeyDog
17-12-2017, 20:38
Holy Shizzle!!! Good bye Gt3 Porsche!!! I found My New Gt3 car!!! I had to give up on the Porsche because its just wont Keep up in Gt3 its just too much work to keep it up to pace with the Audi,Ferrari!!! I like the Odd ball cars that Most don't drive --> The New car of choice :p??? It's a Audi,BMW and Ferrari Killer if you can drive it!!! its popping 1:05.xxx on the Glen short with ease and I did it a few times on Not even using VR!!! VR I'm at least .500 to 1 full sec Faster!!! I was going to go with the Gt3 Gtr as the Odd ball because it pops 1:08.7xx easy and even 1:07.xx if I'm focused but it has been cast to the side for car ???...LOL

poirqc
17-12-2017, 20:41
Holy Shizzle!!! Good bye Porsche!!! I found My New Gt3 car!!! I had to give up on the Porsche because its just wont Keep up in Gt3 its just too much work to keep it up to pace with the Audi,Ferrari!!! I like the Odd ball cars that Most don't drive --> The New car of choice :p??? It's a Audi,BMW and Ferrari Killer if you can drive it!!! its popping 1:05.xxx on the Glen short with ease!!! I was going to go with the Gt3 Gtr as the Odd ball because it pops 1:08.7xx easy and even 1:07.xx if I'm focused but it has been cast to the side for car ???...LOL

I like the Cadillac. I wonder what I can manager at GWS.

GrimeyDog
17-12-2017, 20:47
I like the Cadillac. I wonder what I can manager at GWS.

The caddi is Good but i cant hit the time I'm looking for with it... Lets race them online ---set up a un-ranked room lets Go for it...I haven't even got 1 hour drive time with this New car yet but it just fits My driving style perfectly.

Olijke Poffer
17-12-2017, 21:14
The caddi is Good but i cant hit the time I'm looking for with it... Lets race them online ---set up a un-ranked room lets Go for it...I haven't even got 1 hour drive time with this New car yet but it just fits My driving style perfectly.

And which car is it?

GrimeyDog
17-12-2017, 22:16
And which car is it?

LOL:confused: --> Its the Renault R.S.01

GrimeyDog
18-12-2017, 10:08
i was mixing up the Gt3 R.S.O1 with the track day R.S.01 the Gt3 R.S.01 wont hit 1:05.xx on Watkins short it will hit 1:08.xxx and 1:07.xx with stock tune its still fast and will keep up with the Audi, Ferrari etc its that or the Gt3 Gtr tht will be My Gt3 car of choice....the Gt3 Porsche is out!!! its fast but tine to drive some thing New:barbershop_quartet_

GrimeyDog
18-12-2017, 10:57
Had a few Great Races with Poirqc last Night!!! Had a Fierce Qualifying Battle on Laguna Seca Me R.S.O1 vs Poirqc in the Caddilac --> I was Dead on His Bumper for a Few Laps trying to force a Mistake but Poirqc kept his Cool and Defended against the Pass well!!! Tooo Dam well even:o Great Fun... I will edit the replay and post it when i get a chance.

Poirqc i dunno if that Caddi can Handle the R.S.01 dude:p

Olijke Poffer
18-12-2017, 11:27
LOL:confused: --> Its the Renault R.S.01

Ah ok thanks... Indeed a great car. Drive a lot better than the one in Pcars 1.

tennenbaum
20-12-2017, 16:38
Merry Christmas! May be we meet during holidays on the track.

poirqc
20-12-2017, 17:09
Merry Christmas! May be we meet during holidays on the track.

I hope so, but my right anckle is messed up.(Old wound, too much eal-toe and a new ski seasons just started) I need to rest it a bit.

morpwr
23-12-2017, 02:24
Merry Christmas guys!!!!!!

morpwr
23-12-2017, 02:27
Have you guys tried the Ferraris yet? I don't know if the last update changed things or what but they really good. Especially the old ones. What you feel matches what you see in vr.

Gamer82678
23-12-2017, 20:48
Hello Guys,
How are you ? Fine I hope ! :o
Happy Holidays ! :o
Just wanted to share some analysis from T-GT Wheel.
I lost a lot of what I wanted to say in reply by getting all mixed up here on my iPad. :rolleyes:
I have questions about setting up FFB in Project Cars 2 ? ? ?
As I am still primarily playing Project Cars 1 and haven’t gotten into Project Cars 2 much at this time.
How does this analysis apply to Project Cars 2 the only thing I’m going with so far is Raw with everything set at 50 for FFB settings.
Will link some YouTube vids soon to share my FFB settings in Project Cars 1 and to show my present situation with setting up FFB and FOV in Project Cars 2 with questions for you guys.
OK link for FFB settings for Project Cars 1: https://youtu.be/2-CDFtMSONc
OK link for setup of Project Cars 2 with questions: https://youtu.be/BxkKsxhkxjQ

morpwr
23-12-2017, 23:12
Hello Guys,
How are you ? Fine I hope ! :o
Happy Holidays ! :o
Just wanted to share some analysis from T-GT Wheel.
I lost a lot of what I wanted to say in reply by getting all mixed up here on my iPad. :rolleyes:
I have questions about setting up FFB in Project Cars 2 ? ? ?
As I am still primarily playing Project Cars 1 and haven’t gotten into Project Cars 2 much at this time.
How does this analysis apply to Project Cars 2 the only thing I’m going with so far is Raw with everything set at 50 for FFB settings.
Will link some YouTube vids soon to share my FFB settings in Project Cars 1 and to show my present situation with setting up FFB and FOV in Project Cars 2 with questions for you guys.
OK link for FFB settings for Project Cars 1: https://youtu.be/2-CDFtMSONc


That's all I do on my pc racer. Just adjust the volume per car and turn fx down some. Works great and no chasing the unicorn.

Gamer82678
24-12-2017, 00:20
That's all I do on my pc racer. Just adjust the volume per car and turn fx down some. Works great and no chasing the unicorn.

OK Thanks morpwr ! :rolleyes::cool:
As it seems like a whole totally different game for me to adapt and get used to especially with different cockpit adjustment and FOV settings.
I just can’t dial in !
2nd vid uploading now. :rolleyes:
2nd vid with questions link: https://youtu.be/BxkKsxhkxjQ
Correction ! I meant to say FOV Calculator in vid not FFB Calculator.
I’m sitting 79 inches from a 55inch TV monitor.
The Force Feedback Widget seems to be inaccurate and too small on PS4 platform.
The size of it is much much too small ! Really ! And it’s off in its response readings compared to PC it appears. Something definitely needed to look into on PS4 platform.
It is something that I feel really should be around the size of FFB Graph in Telemetry HUD in Project Cars 1. It’s like they really don’t want you to see it ! :confused:
Its very small size sucks ! :rolleyes:
The whole idea of not letting us have access to adjust readily !
1. Deadzone Removal
2. Deadzone Removal Falloff
3. Scoop Knee
4. Scoop Knee Reduction
Is a denial of letting us set up our FFB steering wheels with precision.
It is a one size fits all with different flavor offering compromise to offer more accessibility.
These FFB steering wheels are like snow flakes or finger prints in their individual response characteristics.
I can set up FFB in Project Cars 1 sweeter than mudda fuggin bear meat ! :cool:
Then come over to Project Cars 2 with its few sliders variables ! Which game you think I’m gonna keep playing ! :rolleyes:
I just see it as a compromise to cry babies to make sales !
Project Cars 1 is a masterpiece in respect to being able to dial in FFB to individual response characteristics of FFB steering wheel with precision.

morpwr
24-12-2017, 16:25
OK Thanks morpwr ! :rolleyes::cool:
As it seems like a whole totally different game for me to adapt and get used to especially with different cockpit adjustment and FOV settings.
I just can’t dial in !
2nd vid uploading now. :rolleyes:
2nd vid with questions link: https://youtu.be/BxkKsxhkxjQ
Correction ! I meant to say FOV Calculator in vid not FFB Calculator.
I’m sitting 79 inches from a 55inch TV monitor.
The Force Feedback Widget seems to be inaccurate and too small on PS4 platform.
The size of it is much much too small ! Really ! And it’s off in its response readings compared to PC it appears. Something definitely needed to look into on PS4 platform.
It is something that I feel really should be around the size of FFB Graph in Telemetry HUD in Project Cars 1. It’s like they really don’t want you to see it ! :confused:
Its very small size sucks ! :rolleyes:
The whole idea of not letting us have access to adjust readily !
1. Deadzone Removal
2. Deadzone Removal Falloff
3. Scoop Knee
4. Scoop Knee Reduction
Is a denial of letting us set up our FFB steering wheels with precision.
It is a one size fits all with different flavor offering compromise to offer more accessibility.
These FFB steering wheels are like snow flakes or finger prints in their individual response characteristics.
I can set up FFB in Project Cars 1 sweeter than mudda fuggin bear meat ! :cool:
Then come over to Project Cars 2 with its few sliders variables ! Which game you think I’m gonna keep playing ! :rolleyes:
I just see it as a compromise to cry babies to make sales !
Project Cars 1 is a masterpiece in respect to being able to dial in FFB to individual response characteristics of FFB steering wheel with precision.

I don't know how it is on the ps4 but you really shouldn't need any deadzone removal with that wheel. I wouldn't worry about the scoop stuff either. I'm not sure how much help I can be because from what ive seen the console settings are very different. Id probably check with the guys in the ps4 forum.

GrimeyDog
24-12-2017, 20:20
Gamer the FFB in Pcars2 is Sweeter than Bear Meat ×3!!!
Your stuck on Pcars1 because its what your used to but i can Assure you with All Confidence that Pcars2 is the Shizzle!!! Pcars1 FFB was Great but it was very Much lacking in Road Texture/Surface feel --> With Pcars2 I dunno and dont care if the Road Texture feel is canned or Not it just Feels Great!!! You just have to become familiar with the FFB Sliders and your Good to Go!!! Now If Pcars1 was updated to have the same Road Texture Feel Pcars2 has then Pcars1 would be king of the Sim Racing World!!! i too miss the Total FFB customization of Pcars1 but as it Is Now All SMS Needs to do is add in a Master FFB gain/Slider per car and it would be Really hard for Any 1 to deny that Pcars2 is the best Sim Racing Game out to date.... The addition of in car Masters would out Pcars2 sooo close to perfect for todays Sim Racing Physics tec that you wouldn't care about minor Bugs or Glitches because it would be just that Good.

Gamer82678
24-12-2017, 21:38
Gamer the FFB in Pcars2 is Sweeter than Bear Meat ×3!!!
Your stuck on Pcars1 because its what your used to but i can Assure you with All Confidence that Pcars2 is the Shizzle!!! Pcars1 FFB was Great but it was very Much lacking in Road Texture/Surface feel --> With Pcars2 I dunno and dont care if the Road Texture feel is canned or Not it just Feels Great!!! You just have to become familiar with the FFB Sliders and your Good to Go!!! Now If Pcars1 was updated to have the same Road Texture Feel Pcars2 has then Pcars1 would be king of the Sim Racing World!!! i too miss the Total FFB customization of Pcars1 but as it Is Now All SMS Needs to do is add in a Master FFB gain/Slider per car and it would be Really hard for Any 1 to deny that Pcars2 is the best Sim Racing Game out to date.... The addition of in car Masters would out Pcars2 sooo close to perfect for todays Sim Racing Physics tec that you wouldn't care about minor Bugs or Glitches because it would be just that Good.

OK
I would have to say you’re 1000 percent correct.:rolleyes:
After leaning back rest back 1 position and lowering wheel deck so center of wheel is about at the base of my neck with Next Level Racing F1GT cockpit also, trying to come to grips with proper FOV setting I have quite a bit to adjust to in just setting up Project Cars fundamentally.
I will take my time step by step because, I want to discover and enjoy its new goodies.
Damn, if you say it can get sweeter than mudda fuggin bear meat x3 I might just shit in my pants when I finally do dial in.:rolleyes:
More the reason to take my time setting things up ! :rolleyes:
About to get to it in a few minutes after just waking up.
Happy Holidays ! :D:rolleyes::cool:
Love You Guys Here ! :cool:

Gamer82678
26-12-2017, 10:30
Hello Guys,
How are you ? Fine I hope ! :)
I have found out that the Force Feedback Widget works a bit better when you have settings to Manual gears on PS4.
In Automatic gears it does not seem to work properly.
Have discovered some interesting analysis when testing linearity within WheelCheck 1.72 on laptop with Thrustmaster Control Panel utilizing default settings for T-GT wheel base with T-GT Wheel attached.
Will try to share average results within FCM 1.20 later from 4 different linearity test files averaged but, tested with the 4 different damper influences from WheelCheck 1.72 that’s an average of Damping Force - Disabled, Damper, Inertia and Friction with Always update forces selected and 100 steps.
To be honest since I’ve had this wheel I’ve played Project Cars 1 the most with it. Gran Turismo Sport maybe about a half a dozen times. :rolleyes:
F1 Wheel attached mainly. Put the T-GT Wheel on for latest linearity testing.
Will try to share a vid of latest FFB settings in Project Cars 2 as I’m slowly coming to grips with it soon.
Hardest thing is getting used to cockpit FOV ! With where am I from a geometric perspective but, it’s coming along. :rolleyes:
Old dogs can learn new tricks ! :rolleyes:
Happy Holidays ! :o
Love You Guys Here ! :cool:

Gamer82678
27-12-2017, 01:39
OK Guys,
How are you ? Fine I hope ! :o
Link to vid where I’m currently at in setting up Project Cars 2 at the present fundamentally: https://youtu.be/cuqG945Jixc
Happy Holidays ! :)
Love You Guys Here ! :cool:

GrimeyDog
27-12-2017, 12:33
http://youtu.be/qjmZhhn0mQI


All i Need is the Smell of Race Fuel and Burt Rubber and i would swear i was Really in the Race

SGETI
27-12-2017, 15:32
247926

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/5140Tp9GCtL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg

Gamer82678
28-12-2017, 17:04
http://youtu.be/qjmZhhn0mQI


All i Need is the Smell of Race Fuel and Burt Rubber and i would swear i was Really in the Race

Whoa !
That looks like a awesome immersive setup ya got there ! :o
Bet you were having a blast ! :cool:
Happy Holidays ! :o

Gamer82678
28-12-2017, 18:35
Hello Guys,
How are you ? Fine I hope ! :o
Wanted to share latest analysis with Google Sheets FFB Calculator.
As I’ve been a little apprehensive of this so called T-LIN feature of this wheel base.
The test was done with WheelCheck 1.72 doing 4 linear test but, with Damping Force utilizing it’s 4 different settings with 100 Steps and with Always update forces selected.
1. Damping Force - Disabled
2. Damping Force - Damper
3. Damping Force - Inertia
4. Damping Force - Friction
Thrustmaster Control Panel reset to default settings with T-GT Wheel on base.
900 Degrees Of Rotation. FFB 60 Strength. All other forces default to 100. Centering by game.
Imported the 4 different files first into FCM 1.20 for a reading of their average and to calculate the results into what is most linear.
Result was:
Scoop Knee: 0.39
Scoop Reduction: 0.11
Deadzone Removal: 0.17
With a almost perfect linear line ! :rolleyes:
Will try to share the results from FCM 1.20 application window next time I get to laptop and figure out how to take a picture of application window again in BOOTCAMP.
So .... this T-LIN feature may be more than likely true. :rolleyes:
Most importantly observing Normalized Wheel Output fall off. :rolleyes:
Happy Holidays ! :o
Love You Guys Here ! :cool:

Gamer82678
30-12-2017, 07:53
Hello guys,
How are you ? Fine I hope ! :)
Trying to share with you the results from the average of the 4 files as analyzed within FCM 1.20 no calculate and with calculations.
Happy Holidays ! :o
Love You Guys Here ! :cool:

tennenbaum
31-12-2017, 17:38
HAPPY NEW YEAR!:very_drunk:

Gamer82678
31-12-2017, 19:52
HAPPY NEW YEAR!:very_drunk:

Same to you tennenbaum and all ! :o
Happy New Year ! :o

morpwr
01-01-2018, 15:39
Happy New Year guys and girls!!!!

Furnace Inferno
03-01-2018, 11:52
Thought I would add to this belt drive versus DD wheel talk having recently crumbled and buying the Accuforce on the Black Friday deals instead of waiting for the Fanatec Podium wheel since they didn't reveal any specs and their talk of other wheels being overspecced worried me that theirs would use cheaper less reliable parts.

Anyway back on point I was using a Fanatec CSW V2 on a GT Ultimate V2 rig and played every sim based racing game out there bar iRacing (fuck paying a yearly membership fee to be allowed to access expensive DLC!) to get a good feel for the differences.

First surprise I needed to turn gain down in all of them to stop it clipping so much, AMS is right down on 15% but even that low it's still has much higher FFB output than the Fanatec. In that particular game I've since discovered Niels has applied a 20-30% FFB boost to all cars because most people use lower end wheels which just aren't capable of generating the subtle forces normally.

With the FFB turned down what I realised is how often the CSW V2 was actually clipping to hit relatively strong FFB and looking at how high most people suggest setting FFB for their wheels I think everyone is clipping a lot more than they think. The Accuforce has a very useful force overlay which shows actual force the wheel is using of all effects rather than game side ones which don't really know.

I used the Formula Ultimate at Hockenheim for testing as I knew it would have a ton of force through the corners and most of the sims have the same track and an F1 car. Turn 7 just after the hairpin was giving the highest FFB output on the V2 and Accuforce initially it just felt smooth through there and elastic, now on the V2 I didn't think much of it as it happens so often but on the Accuforce it was so apparent something was wrong.

This brings me on to the next huge difference, vibrations. On the V2 they are extremely damped and muted to begin with kind of like rumble motors in a controller but on the Accuforce they are so crisp and defined it feels like a Buttkicker in how it can deliver the effects so as soon as they disappeared from clipping it just felt like I stronger V2. People saying they don't want more strength I would say the lower force DD wheels are ideal for them because the increase in detail for low forces is huge as they aren't absorbed by belts and the motor is so much quicker to react that it can give the detail.

Take PCars 1 I thought that had absolutely no road feel on the Fanatec even with my tuned FFB settings which were much better than stock, switched to the Accuforce though and damn there is actually constant road feedback just like Assetto Corsa, I was shocked, even on stock settings I haven't even try adjusting them yet. The Accuforce really amazed with with its ability to always be able to have such defined vibrations even with all the other forces like it has another motor just for them.

RFactor 2 was the deadliest of them all, my god that game is so aggressive, having not driven any race cars I can't possibly say which is more realistic but rF2 is just brutal, I've never lost control of the wheel on the V2 it's just not strong on fast enough to overpower me. The Accuforce on the other although not the strongest DD wheel reacts so fast if you aren't paying attention and lose control with an F1 rim then you're fucked basically let that sucker spin!

Final points on build quality, the quick release being based on (and built by I believe) NRG's models which a proper race car QR's is significantly better than Fanatec's. The way it locks in and pops of so easily no locking screw required (I know you can run Fanatec's without but there is some play/rattle if you don't) is just so slick. The shifters are nicer and the buttons (bar the horn have a less game like feel), aesthetically I prefer it to the Universal Hub which looks like a game controller but that is very much person dependant. However the build quality is pretty much like how Fanatec's make Thrustmaster gear feel like toys, that's how I'd compare the Accuforce to Fanatec.

In terms of wheel rims you can get Fanatec ones converted to USB for around £115 which isn't too bad really if you like their rims, I went for a custom F1 rim which was a fair bit more expensive but the difference in quality is not insignificant. It's full carbon fibre, the buttons feel incredible, has a larger display (though pointless for my VR gaming!) but where it really takes Fanatec apart is the magnetic gear shifters. The difference between those and spring based ones is substantial and really makes the latter feel like a flimsy toy in comparison, I highly recommend an upgrade to those and I suspect the Fanatec Podium wheels will include them as standard but I reckon they will also be at least €700 given the €500 original Porsche price and €490 current XB1 Hub price.

One other thing, the GT Ultimate rig or NLR wheelstand which is the heaviest and sturdiest of wheelstands is not enough to withstand the forces of a DD wheel at full tilt and even at 16kg it's not much heavier either. I've had to sell it off and switch to a permanent 80/20 rig which I'm waiting on now as it just didn't feel stable enough and I could tell I was losing some feedback straight into the rig.

There are some things that could be considered negatives and some which are outright. First not being able to quickly change the DOR on the wheel for games which don't do it automatically like Forza 7 is a bit annoying and some games which do support it on other wheels don't on the Accuforce or OSW as their driver works differently and the game can't adjust it. The CSW V2 is perfectly smooth, the Accuforce really is not, now for me this isn't an issue as most cars don't feel that smooth if you turn the wheel but if you are used to it then it does come as a surprise. To add to that it also makes a humming noise during quick rotation akin to the buzzing a Logitech G27 makes when the wheel is turned again I wasn't expecting that but neither are things you can feel whilst driving but worth mentioning.

Now is it worth the cost to most people who are happy with their current wheels and budget and don't have solid rigs, I don't think so, it's basically the equivalent of going from Fanatec LC pedals to HPP, PT-1's or Heusinkveld. They are undoubtedly better and reliable but you need the rig to get the most out of them and the performance/immersion increase for someone not dedicated to sim racing really isn't worth the cost when you can be just as quick on the lower end stuff if not quicker if like me you dial up to FFB for more realism.

RaceNut
03-01-2018, 21:19
You are so right in regard to clipping, it's very evident when it occurs using the AccuForce - and it happens a lot. I run most title's FFB-strength below 50% in most cases and even with the OSW, max power at the wheel-driver and use the game-FFB output to regulate the torque that I want to use. It eliminates clipping being an issue and the need to test for it with various cars.

Soft-clipping will always transfer to the hardware, there's no way around that being that the FFB signal travels downstream. :)

As for the AccuForce not being smooth, that's not true; it can be buttery smooth but, it's all in how the player tunes it. In fact, the AccuForce can be tuned to feel quite similar to the OSW; obviously, the OSW has a significant torque advantage. Both systems can be smooth, grainy or somewhere in-between. On the wheel-driver side, it's a matter of applying the proper amount of filtering, dampening, friction, and sometimes inertia - in order to achieve the desired effect. The OSW's can also make noise under certain circumstances but, the firmware of the OSW and Bodnar wheels tend to have more constraints designed into it to limit such activity.

If the AF-motor is making noise, that's a good indication that some filtering or smoothing needs to be applied. Tuning SC4 is also something of a balancing act; it's about getting the right feel, the right speed (rotation), SAT, detail, rubber-quality, etc. The OSW-SimuCube is easier to adjust in that regard but, it can require some tweaks under the game-FFB hood to tame the effects that can dominate. The AF and SC4 are more versatile overall because it can be done easily, on the fly, while having the benefit of using telemetry-based FFB to replace or enhance the effects if desired.

Both are great steering-systems and have certain advantages but, they both take FFB to a whole new level. Exploring the possibilities in FFB can become a secondary hobby pretty easily. :D

Furnace Inferno
04-01-2018, 23:21
You are so right in regard to clipping, it's very evident when it occurs using the AccuForce - and it happens a lot. I run most title's FFB-strength below 50% in most cases and even with the OSW, max power at the wheel-driver and use the game-FFB output to regulate the torque that I want to use. It eliminates clipping being an issue and the need to test for it with various cars.

Soft-clipping will always transfer to the hardware, there's no way around that being that the FFB signal travels downstream. :)

As for the AccuForce not being smooth, that's not true; it can be buttery smooth but, it's all in how the player tunes it. In fact, the AccuForce can be tuned to feel quite similar to the OSW; obviously, the OSW has a significant torque advantage. Both systems can be smooth, grainy or somewhere in-between. On the wheel-driver side, it's a matter of applying the proper amount of filtering, dampening, friction, and sometimes inertia - in order to achieve the desired effect. The OSW's can also make noise under certain circumstances but, the firmware of the OSW and Bodnar wheels tend to have more constraints designed into it to limit such activity.

If the AF-motor is making noise, that's a good indication that some filtering or smoothing needs to be applied. Tuning SC4 is also something of a balancing act; it's about getting the right feel, the right speed (rotation), SAT, detail, rubber-quality, etc. The OSW-SimuCube is easier to adjust in that regard but, it can require some tweaks under the game-FFB hood to tame the effects that can dominate. The AF and SC4 are more versatile overall because it can be done easily, on the fly, while having the benefit of using telemetry-based FFB to replace or enhance the effects if desired.

Both are great steering-systems and have certain advantages but, they both take FFB to a whole new level. Exploring the possibilities in FFB can become a secondary hobby pretty easily. :DWhen I say not smooth, you rotate a CSW V2 and there is literally nothing coming back. Turn the Accuforce and you can easily feel the notches and it surprised me how obvious it was in comparison, I thought it would only be a slight difference. This is both powered on and off so I don't think it has anything to do with the settings, same with the noise, if I just rotate it left and right relatively quickly then you can hear what I can only assume is the motor itself very similar to gear type wheels in feel and sound just not as pronounced.

Once I'm driving I can't feel it though but I can still hear it occasionally, perhaps once powered on particular settings can remove it but it it's at the expense of detail I'd rather have it more raw. I've not really played with the damper, inertia and friction settings other than turning them off, rpm vibrations and changing from 'default' to 'responsive' but I tested AMS with default which had tons of clipping and rF2 with responsive which was a lot stronger and without clipping so I think it clips less but I'll need to go back and check.

Certainly a lot of tinkering to do but I need to get more time with relatively stock settings as I try to adjust for realism not to make every car feel the same or how I like, If a car feels bad in the game then there is a good chance it feels bad in real life too, though equally it could also be bad settings but I like to have variation just as in real life. I do need to go check the default profile smoothing settings though as I'm sure some of those were quite high.

poirqc
06-01-2018, 16:20
Morpwr, you really need to join us in our online lobbies! I'm sure you'll have loads of fun! :D

I'm also looking at you Haiden! :p

GrimeyDog
06-01-2018, 17:50
Morpwr, you really need to join us in our online lobbies! I'm sure you'll have loads of fun! :D

I'm also looking at you Haiden! :p

I have Been having Great Races in Gt4!!! No Crash Dummies!!!

Makman43
07-01-2018, 15:00
I have Been having Great Races in Gt4!!! No Crash Dummies!!!

When do you guys usually race?

Haiden
07-01-2018, 15:47
Morpwr, you really need to join us in our online lobbies! I'm sure you'll have loads of fun! :D

I'm also looking at you Haiden! :p

Depends on the car. Don't really have a track preference, but I don't drive Vintage or Road often (other than the Lotus 70s and 98), so I stay away from them online. GT1-4, LMP1-900, modern open wheel, and a few of the Track Days are all I tend to drive in PCars.

tennenbaum
07-01-2018, 16:02
Depends on the car. Don't really have a track preference, but I don't drive Vintage or Road often (other than the Lotus 70s and 98), so I stay away from them online. GT1-4, LMP1-900, modern open wheel, and a few of the Track Days are all I tend to drive in PCars.

Let's also find Linuke and MantuVaipu. And a good soul who organizes 2-3 Sunday races...

tennenbaum
07-01-2018, 17:39
Hi guys, i forgot how to start a new threat. Can't find where the wicked function is... May be you can help me here:

My standard 5 GB OneDrive is full, and i don't intend to pay Microsoft for enlarging its size. Though all my games presets, savegames, settings, etc. are stored by default under 'documents' on OneDrive. Now that's it reached its capacity limit i wonder if my game data will be still saved securely??

I tried to simply move (eg. my R3E SimBin folder) to the desktop (thus emptying OneDrive), but then obviously the game looses its setting files and doesn't work properly any more. (Moving the folder back into the OneDrive folder, makes it work again).

How can i "move" the data out of the OneDrive to a local folder, without jeopardizing all my games functionality?

What happens if i simply ignore the "OneDrive max. capacity reached" alert? Do the game files still save properly localy, and just won't be synchronized to the cloud, or do i risk corrupted files sooner or later?

Any idea?

GrimeyDog
07-01-2018, 22:46
When do you guys usually race?

Random times... Im ususally on from 5pm to 9pm EST.

poirqc
08-01-2018, 02:08
Depends on the car. Don't really have a track preference, but I don't drive Vintage or Road often (other than the Lotus 70s and 98), so I stay away from them online. GT1-4, LMP1-900, modern open wheel, and a few of the Track Days are all I tend to drive in PCars.

GT4 is a go, track day B is also a go, Touring is also a go. We should be able to find something! :D

Haiden
08-01-2018, 11:32
Hi guys, i forgot how to start a new threat. Can't find where the wicked function is... May be you can help me here:

My standard 5 GB OneDrive is full, and i don't intend to pay Microsoft for enlarging its size. Though all my games presets, savegames, settings, etc. are stored by default under 'documents' on OneDrive. Now that's it reached its capacity limit i wonder if my game data will be still saved securely??

I tried to simply move (eg. my R3E SimBin folder) to the desktop (thus emptying OneDrive), but then obviously the game looses its setting files and doesn't work properly any more. (Moving the folder back into the OneDrive folder, makes it work again).

How can i "move" the data out of the OneDrive to a local folder, without jeopardizing all my games functionality?

What happens if i simply ignore the "OneDrive max. capacity reached" alert? Do the game files still save properly localy, and just won't be synchronized to the cloud, or do i risk corrupted files sooner or later?

Any idea?

You might have to reinstall the game to the new drive, and then copy the User Data folders to the corresponding location in the new installation folders. But just moving the folder, probably doesn't do much since the paths were set when the game was installed. Not 100% sure, that's the only way, but it should be one way to get it working.

Also not 100% sure, because I've never maxed it out, but one of two things will probably happen. Either OneDrive would just stop syncing, but the local files would still save. The cloud versions would just never be updated, and you'd probably get an error when the sync tried to run. Or, you'd get a permission based error when attempting to save, and it won't let you save anything.

Question... Why are you using OneDrive for that kind of storage, instead of a physical drive?

Haiden
08-01-2018, 11:36
GT4 is a go, track day B is also a go, Touring is also a go. We should be able to find something! :D

If you see you me in PCars, send me an invite. Question... Do you guys ever race anything faster, like LMP or GT1?

poirqc
08-01-2018, 14:06
If you see you me in PCars, send me an invite. Question... Do you guys ever race anything faster, like LMP or GT1?

Rarely(never). I might be interested in GT1. But personnaly, I think slower classes make close racing happend more easily. Your not too far if you make a mistake. And difference in skill is less apparent.

tennenbaum
08-01-2018, 15:14
You might have to reinstall the game to the new drive, and then copy the User Data folders to the corresponding location in the new installation folders. But just moving the folder, probably doesn't do much since the paths were set when the game was installed. Not 100% sure, that's the only way, but it should be one way to get it working.

Also not 100% sure, because I've never maxed it out, but one of two things will probably happen. Either OneDrive would just stop syncing, but the local files would still save. The cloud versions would just never be updated, and you'd probably get an error when the sync tried to run. Or, you'd get a permission based error when attempting to save, and it won't let you save anything.

Question... Why are you using OneDrive for that kind of storage, instead of a physical drive?

Thanks Haiden! Windows 10 seems to copy game relevant data by default in my doc folder in the synced OneDrive folder. I was never asked about that. (Simple procedure to grant Microsoft some more bucks, i guess...) With normal docs no problem. I could easily move them away from the OneDrive, but as you say it's a totally different story with game data. I'll go with your conclusion that it's rather likely the actual local OneDrive folder can exceed its 5GB cloud volume, but just doesn't sync no more with what's in the cloud. I also assume worst case sooner or later a warning shows up telling me new saves won't be made properly... Until now such message didn't occur. Let's hope it stays like that ;-)

Haiden
08-01-2018, 15:50
Thanks Haiden! Windows 10 seems to copy game relevant data by default in my doc folder in the synced OneDrive folder. I was never asked about that. (Simple procedure to grant Microsoft some more bucks, i guess...) With normal docs no problem. I could easily move them away from the OneDrive, but as you say it's a totally different story with game data. I'll go with your conclusion that it's rather likely the actual local OneDrive folder can exceed its 5GB cloud volume, but just doesn't sync no more with what's in the cloud. I also assume worst case sooner or later a warning shows up telling me new saves won't be made properly... Until now such message didn't occur. Let's hope it stays like that ;-)

Easy enough to test. Just copy a large file or amount of data into the folder to push it over the limit and see what happens. You should also be able to disable the sync for OneDrive, which would/should stop the error notification.

Strange, though. I'm on Windows10 and my game data defaulted to the My Documents folder. Nothing in there syncs to my OneDrive account. In fact, the OneDrive app/function wasn't even active on my gaming PC, until I logged into my OneDrive account. Wonder why yours is defaulted. :confused:

tennenbaum
08-01-2018, 18:46
Easy enough to test. Just copy a large file or amount of data into the folder to push it over the limit and see what happens. You should also be able to disable the sync for OneDrive, which would/should stop the error notification.

Strange, though. I'm on Windows10 and my game data defaulted to the My Documents folder. Nothing in there syncs to my OneDrive account. In fact, the OneDrive app/function wasn't even active on my gaming PC, until I logged into my OneDrive account. Wonder why yours is defaulted. :confused:

Yep I'll give the 'overload-test' a try. And yes i can disable the sync for OneDrive, but i wonder what happens if most of my presets are still in OneDrive and newer saves not any more. I'm really hesitant to test that... horror to imagine i scramble all my settings in 3 sim games. Never touch a running system... ;-)

Haiden
08-01-2018, 20:08
Yep I'll give the 'overload-test' a try. And yes i can disable the sync for OneDrive, but i wonder what happens if most of my presets are still in OneDrive and newer saves not any more. I'm really hesitant to test that... horror to imagine i scramble all my settings in 3 sim games. Never touch a running system... ;-)


Just copy your config files from the OneDrive folder to third safe directory. Then, if the working files get corrupted, you can always revert to your safety set. :)

RaceNut
10-01-2018, 15:38
Regarding issues with the "default controller settings" save-file, do we know what the trigger is that causes the issues?

Some think it's related to changing FFB-Flavors while others say it may be related to mapping control buttons to adjust Volume / Tone.

senna94f1
11-01-2018, 18:48
Can't you just zip your flies ,

As I did with Pcars 1 using jack spades settings,

As with one drive when you first open an account they give you loads of extra online storage on top of your normal amount,

Then like they've decided with me after 3 years of one drive ,suddenly decided to half the amount and sent me an email saying I can buy more storage for x pounds more monthly,,

So with Pcars1 I just zip it all ,hence had loads of free space,

I haven't tried it using Pcars 2 as I have that game on my ps4

Plus I get rid of Windows 10 and reinstalled Windows 8.1 ,so don't now if that's your issue,

I found with Windows 10 a lot of online services didn't work as the big companies were still on Windows 7 or 8, like. Banking was a problem but that was 2 years ago and no doubt everything is Windows 10 now,

tennenbaum
11-01-2018, 22:50
It drives me nuts: I dont find the forum button no more how to create a new threat. Where is this button???

GrimeyDog
11-01-2018, 23:04
It drives me nuts: I dont find the forum button no more how to create a new threat. Where is this button???

on the main forum page --> select section you wish to start New thread in --> upper right corner Goto forumTools and select Post new thread:very_drunk:

tennenbaum
12-01-2018, 09:33
on the main forum page --> select section you wish to start New thread in --> upper right corner Goto forumTools and select Post new thread:very_drunk:

THANKS!!!

GrimeyDog
14-01-2018, 15:35
Holy Shizzle the Gt3 Ginetta is fast as @$#%!!!
Dam near a 1:07.××× on the Glen!!! I know i can get the .200 Needed to get it there!!! just need a little more time in the car:cool:

tennenbaum
18-01-2018, 18:48
I'm blind, fell on my head, or both: I don't find the 'Garage' no more... Where is it??

poirqc
18-01-2018, 22:25
I'm blind, fell on my head, or both: I don't find the 'Garage' no more... Where is it??

There's no garage anymore. You need to be in a session to tune a build. I also miss this option, btw.

tennenbaum
19-01-2018, 11:56
There's no garage anymore. You need to be in a session to tune a build. I also miss this option, btw.

Aha! Thank you! I really doubted my mental health ;-)

So a set up is only stored for the track of the session you are in, right? But when i change and save set ups, the origin SMS set ups (loose and stable) disappear. How to get them back, if needed?

poirqc
19-01-2018, 12:26
Aha! Thank you! I really doubted my mental health ;-)

So a set up is only stored for the track of the session you are in, right? But when i change and save set ups, the origin SMS set ups (loose and stable) disappear. How to get them back, if needed?

There's a load setup button, beside save. It'll show up at some point. From there, you can load whatever is available.

Haiden
19-01-2018, 13:48
You have to select the "All Tracks" category from the loading screen, and then it will show you the SMS defaults Loose and Stable. If you click overwrite when saving and save your modified setup as Loose or Stable, they will be saved under the track by that name. But when you click All Tracks, you'll see the SMS defaults in the list along with your modified saved.

tennenbaum
19-01-2018, 19:34
You have to select the "All Tracks" category from the loading screen, and then it will show you the SMS defaults Loose and Stable. If you click overwrite when saving and save your modified setup as Loose or Stable, they will be saved under the track by that name. But when you click All Tracks, you'll see the SMS defaults in the list along with your modified saved.

Thanks Heiden. After >100 hours I have still blind spots... ;)

skoader
03-02-2018, 00:09
So, any of you guys delved into custom ffb files yet?

poirqc
03-02-2018, 00:37
So, any of you guys delved into custom ffb files yet?

I barely have time to play, so no soup for me!

GrimeyDog
03-02-2018, 00:57
So, any of you guys delved into custom ffb files yet?

Naaa i don't feel like deciphering all the stuff --> has any 1 put out a blue print of what lines affect what within the file??? i looked inside and seems more complex than Pcars1 tweeker file.

RaceNut
03-02-2018, 03:57
I've been working on an OSW-specific profile but, I haven't achieved the results I was hoping for thus far. Even if I get one to work well with a certain car / track combination, it may all change when trying it with another so finding a good average can take quite some time.

Haiden
03-02-2018, 14:46
So, any of you guys delved into custom ffb files yet?

I made a few minor changes to the Custom file a few weeks ago, and finally got a decent baseline FFB. IDK... It's still not great, because I feel like, in comparison to other sims, it's lacking something in the nuance of the slip feel. The wheel lightens as expected, but settling into a corner when you're at threshold and on the edge of slip just isn't communicated as well to me. That said, I do find a lot of other things in the FFB range that other sims are missing. The issue is, at least for me, those extras are more immersive than informative, and don't really do much for me in terms of improving times or being able to control the car any better.

The things I changed were pretty minor, but they did help. I set the Output to around 2.1, and then adjusted the texture scales for brake, road, and scrub feel. There was nothing scientific about my adjustments. It was just by feel. I hated the pull I was feeling in the wheel when braking into a corner. It seemed a bit excessive to me, so I toned down the brake scale in texture, and that made a big difference. Bumping up road scale also helped, because the default custom file was lacking in that area. Some people disable to the Anti-Jolt line to deal with that, but then the unwanted jolting comes back. increasing the Road texture seemed to improve that without the unwanted side effect.

Again, there's nothing scientific about my changes, and I don't claim to know what every scale does. But playing with those texture scales did improve the FFB for me. And now, I can just adjust Volume per car, and don't have to mess with anything else per car/track combo. Prior to that, I wasn't a big fan due to the inconsistency. But who knows, I might experiencing a placebo affect. :) I'm going to play around a little more with the Scrub scale, though, because I'm wondering if that might help bring in whatever seems to be missing in the slip nuance.

RaceNut
03-02-2018, 19:41
I made a few minor changes to the Custom file a few weeks ago, and finally got a decent baseline FFB. IDK... It's still not great, because I feel like, in comparison to other sims, it's lacking something in the nuance of the slip feel. The wheel lightens as expected, but settling into a corner when you're at threshold and on the edge of slip just isn't communicated as well to me. That said, I do find a lot of other things in the FFB range that other sims are missing. The issue is, at least for me, those extras are more immersive than informative, and don't really do much for me in terms of improving times or being able to control the car any better.

The things I changed were pretty minor, but they did help. I set the Output to around 2.1, and then adjusted the texture scales for brake, road, and scrub feel. There was nothing scientific about my adjustments. It was just by feel. I hated the pull I was feeling in the wheel when braking into a corner. It seemed a bit excessive to me, so I toned down the brake scale in texture, and that made a big difference. Bumping up road scale also helped, because the default custom file was lacking in that area. Some people disable to the Anti-Jolt line to deal with that, but then the unwanted jolting comes back. increasing the Road texture seemed to improve that without the unwanted side effect.

Again, there's nothing scientific about my changes, and I don't claim to know what every scale does. But playing with those texture scales did improve the FFB for me. And now, I can just adjust Volume per car, and don't have to mess with anything else per car/track combo. Prior to that, I wasn't a big fan due to the inconsistency. But who knows, I might experiencing a placebo affect. :) I'm going to play around a little more with the Scrub scale, though, because I'm wondering if that might help bring in whatever seems to be missing in the slip nuance.

I tried similar changes to those parameters and thought I had made good progress initially but, upon returning to using the RAW flavor, it seemed some of what I thought was improvement was more likely placebo.

I think you touched on something really significant and that is some nuance seems to be missing near the edge of control in PCars2. I'm not convinced that changes to the FFB are going to solve that. Having spent more time in AC lately very much reinforces that feeling. Then, spending time in AMS, and it becomes even more evident for me but, I suppose it's just a matter of what information we rely on to get the most out of any title. Some of it may even be related to tire noise dynamics - especially with AMS, because they are really effective imo.

Haiden
04-02-2018, 15:15
I tried similar changes to those parameters and thought I had made good progress initially but, upon returning to using the RAW flavor, it seemed some of what I thought was improvement was more likely placebo.

I think you touched on something really significant and that is some nuance seems to be missing near the edge of control in PCars2. I'm not convinced that changes to the FFB are going to solve that. Having spent more time in AC lately very much reinforces that feeling. Then, spending time in AMS, and it becomes even more evident for me but, I suppose it's just a matter of what information we rely on to get the most out of any title. Some of it may even be related to tire noise dynamics - especially with AMS, because they are really effective imo.

That's a good idea. It's been a while now, so I think I'll switch back to RAW to see if I feel any discernible difference. The "improvement" could just be in my head.

I'm starting to think the same about solving it. Partly because whatever it is, in PCars1, it was totally absent. It's more present in PCars2, but still feels somewhat lacking to me. For me, it was an unsolvable issue in PCars1, basically a limitation of the FFB model. I'm starting to think the same applies here--that, although improved, it's still not giving me the information I need/prefer.

I'm no expert on the terms, but "tire noise dynamics" doesn't sound like a good description of what's ailing me. And I would agree that AMS had the best nuanced slip feel of any sim I've tried straight out of the box. And you spent a few minutes tweaking the .ini file, it could feel like pure butter. AC and rF2 have good nuanced slip, as well as R3E. In fact, R3E might be a little numb on the straights, but during cornering and under heavy braking, it actually does a good job of communicating that.

If you do happen to find the secret ingredient to the magic sauce, please let me know. I'd like to try the setting. :)

RaceNut
05-02-2018, 03:38
That's a good idea. It's been a while now, so I think I'll switch back to RAW to see if I feel any discernible difference. The "improvement" could just be in my head.

I'm starting to think the same about solving it. Partly because whatever it is, in PCars1, it was totally absent. It's more present in PCars2, but still feels somewhat lacking to me. For me, it was an unsolvable issue in PCars1, basically a limitation of the FFB model. I'm starting to think the same applies here--that, although improved, it's still not giving me the information I need/prefer.

I'm no expert on the terms, but "tire noise dynamics" doesn't sound like a good description of what's ailing me. And I would agree that AMS had the best nuanced slip feel of any sim I've tried straight out of the box. And you spent a few minutes tweaking the .ini file, it could feel like pure butter. AC and rF2 have good nuanced slip, as well as R3E. In fact, R3E might be a little numb on the straights, but during cornering and under heavy braking, it actually does a good job of communicating that.

If you do happen to find the secret ingredient to the magic sauce, please let me know. I'd like to try the setting. :)

I'll gladly share any information that might benefit others should I uncover something useful but, so far, it just feels like some minor tweaks to FFB. As I said, I'm not sure that's going to solve the issue with what's lacking for some of us. I suspect it's related to the tire-model but, I don't have the technical background to explain it. I just know it as a certain visceral quality in some titles.

Lakiboom
06-02-2018, 14:09
Tried iRacing with my TMX yesterday. And first thing that I realized is when you brake hard in iRacing, lock the wheels, or ABS starts work - you feel it with FFB. TMX starts shaking a little bit. In Project Cars 2 on XBOX1 - nothing. The only thing - sound of locked wheels but no FFB effects.
I tried different settings but nothing. PS4, PC the same?

Haiden
08-02-2018, 11:29
Finally some news on the Fanatec DDs, but it looks like they aren't coming until summer, at the earliest, assuming they don't run into any issues during the beta test. Think I'm going to just order a V2.5, and then give the DDs time to shake out. Not sure I want to be an early adopter on this one. I'd rather enjoy the V2.5 now, give them the rest of the of year to shake out the DDs (assuming they even release this summer), and upgrade again in early 2019.

Good news is... they increased the torque on the DDs. :)


Podium Wheel Base
Talking about delays...
We are all waiting for this product to be released but we had to fight a lot of small issues. The pre-production is done and we are still making internal tests to verify the design and sort out some obvious issues.
Currently we select the beta testers and will get in contact with them shortly. The beta tests will start in late february and it is still planned to held a community event in our HQ where we will invite interested potential customers and direct drive specialists to help us fine tuning the wheel base.
At the moment we are aiming to start selling the DD wheel bases in summer.
Some good news as well. We managed to crank up the torque on both versions. We also successfully eliminated all torque ripple so you can expect the same smoothness as on your ClubSport Wheel bases which is better or on par with the very best DDs out there.

FxUK
08-02-2018, 11:58
Tried iRacing with my TMX yesterday. And first thing that I realized is when you brake hard in iRacing, lock the wheels, or ABS starts work - you feel it with FFB. TMX starts shaking a little bit. In Project Cars 2 on XBOX1 - nothing. The only thing - sound of locked wheels but no FFB effects.
I tried different settings but nothing. PS4, PC the same?

I don't feel this with SMS defaults either, but using Jackspade files (obviously PC only) the effects do exist, not only the scrub from locking the wheels, but also scrub when oversteering and sliding sideways on tarmac. So they are in game, but for some reason either dialled down, drowned out by something or other or just turned off.

i.e See the FFB graph in this image, where I have locked the brakes - none of the SMS presets produce this output for me, but JS files do:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?60628-Surprising-brake-test-results&p=1469021&viewfull=1#post1469021

Lakiboom
08-02-2018, 14:01
Thanks. But I play on console, so Jackspade file is not for such players as me :) Interesting, what will do SMS with this or just nothing. But in fact this brake FFB feeling is very important as for me.

FxUK
08-02-2018, 14:04
Thanks. But I play on console, so Jackspade file is not for such players as me :) Interesting, what will do SMS with this or just nothing. But in fact this brake FFB feeling is very important as for me.

A few more 'flavors' based on Jackspade's settings would no doubt be welcomed by many (especially for console users).

pferreirag60
12-02-2018, 11:49
Before patch 4.0 I was always using the Immersion settings, even if I tried every other: with the following settings:100:70:0:20. So now, after patch i´m using Custom with Jack Spade mid Comp, using: 100:60:10:21, and I have to say that with jack spade´s I can feel tires lock, slip and oversteering, things that i only feeled in some cars before patch. I´m sure it is not a placebo effect, because it really feels different. I´ve tried other settings after patch, because with Porsche Gt3 (race spec) i found the car very different, I could not lap the same as before, it seamed less planted, I really can say for sure, but now I feel all the height on the back, really different from a front engine or middle engine car, fantastic.. but slower, well it seams slower.

Jack spade with 100:50-70:0:21 it is really another world, I cannot understand why before patch 4.0 I didn´t liked the custom file, now it is marvellous!

Haiden
12-02-2018, 13:58
Before patch 4.0 I was always using the Immersion settings, even if I tried every other: with the following settings:100:70:0:20. So now, after patch i´m using Custom with Jack Spade mid Comp, using: 100:60:10:21, and I have to say that with jack spade´s I can feel tires lock, slip and oversteering, things that i only feeled in some cars before patch. I´m sure it is not a placebo effect, because it really feels different. I´ve tried other settings after patch, because with Porsche Gt3 (race spec) i found the car very different, I could not lap the same as before, it seamed less planted, I really can say for sure, but now I feel all the height on the back, really different from a front engine or middle engine car, fantastic.. but slower, well it seams slower.

Jack spade with 100:50-70:0:21 it is really another world, I cannot understand why before patch 4.0 I didn´t liked the custom file, now it is marvellous!

Same. I got a little time in with them yesterday, and his files felt a lot different. I'm not using his new ones, with the car-specific Tone settings. But the previous version feels different now. Although, I'm wondering if it was a corrupted Custom file. The last time I tried Jack's files was quite a while ago, before that corruption issue was known. Either way, I definitely have better slip feel now.

Jack Spade
12-02-2018, 15:19
Same. I got a little time in with them yesterday, and his files felt a lot different. I'm not using his new ones, with the car-specific Tone settings. But the previous version feels different now. Although, I'm wondering if it was a corrupted Custom file. The last time I tried Jack's files was quite a while ago, before that corruption issue was known. Either way, I definitely have better slip feel now.

You´re missing some things then.
BTW since the early WMD days I´m extremely fiddling with tweaker and custom files but never ever had a corrupted file, values are what they are and work as intended.
There maybe bugs and issues in the system that often can be cured by rebuilding the profile and controller, WMD experience, but I can´t recall an incident where it was
necessary for me to do since game release. Also, the standard and alt custom files as such have not changed since months and the FFB system did not change either,
besides some tire and car updates lately, if it now feels better to you with the same settings, would you exclude a placebo?

Haiden
12-02-2018, 18:05
You´re missing some things then.
BTW since the early WMD days I´m extremely fiddling with tweaker and custom files but never ever had a corrupted file, values are what they are and work as intended.
There maybe bugs and issues in the system that often can be cured by rebuilding the profile and controller, WMD experience, but I can´t recall an incident where it was
necessary for me to do since game release. Also, the standard and alt custom files as such have not changed since months and the FFB system did not change either,
besides some tire and car updates lately, if it now feels better to you with the same settings, would you exclude a placebo?

Could be. I didn't think the FFB had changed and the Raw and Default Custom files don't feel any different than they did after I refreshed the Controller file. Your files were the only ones I had tried since refreshing the Controller file. Are you saying the corruption issue with the Controller file doesn't actually happen?

I'd like to try the new files, but don't like the idea of constantly adjusting the settings per car. Right now, the old files feel better than the defaults, so it's still an improvement.

Jack Spade
13-02-2018, 08:00
Could be. I didn't think the FFB had changed and the Raw and Default Custom files don't feel any different than they did after I refreshed the Controller file. Your files were the only ones I had tried since refreshing the Controller file. Are you saying the corruption issue with the Controller file doesn't actually happen?

I'd like to try the new files, but don't like the idea of constantly adjusting the settings per car. Right now, the old files feel better than the defaults, so it's still an improvement.

No, it just didn´t happen on my system.
There´s no per car save option so what´s the solution then other than adjusting in order to make the best of it?

Haiden
13-02-2018, 11:34
No, it just didn´t happen on my system.
There´s no per car save option so what´s the solution then other than adjusting in order to make the best of it?

I know, that sucks. It had to be set per-car in PCars1, but didn't need to be for FFB. Now FFB needs to be set per-car, but it's no longer an option. :(

There is no solution. I downloaded the new files, but, for now, I just decided to keep the old files, because I don't want to have to change the lookup the balance every time I switch cars. IDK... If I start putting more time into PCars, I might give them a shot.

Also, I was never a fan of SoP in PCars1. I heard that's one of the things you added. Is that true?

RaceNut
13-02-2018, 14:24
Some of Jack's files do have SoP; they are clearly labeled as such.

Jack Spade
13-02-2018, 14:39
I know, that sucks. It had to be set per-car in PCars1, but didn't need to be for FFB. Now FFB needs to be set per-car, but it's no longer an option. :(

There is no solution. I downloaded the new files, but, for now, I just decided to keep the old files, because I don't want to have to change the lookup the balance every time I switch cars. IDK... If I start putting more time into PCars, I might give them a shot.

Also, I was never a fan of SoP in PCars1. I heard that's one of the things you added. Is that true?

"Sop" is completely inaccurate, we have SopLateral and SopDifferential, it´s like apples and oranges, detailed info about it all within the zip file.

Haiden
13-02-2018, 16:18
"Sop" is completely inaccurate, we have SopLateral and SopDifferential, it´s like apples and oranges, detailed info about it all within the zip file.

Why is calling it "Sop" inaccurate? SopLateral or SopDifferential... I realize they are two different things, but I didn't like the feel of either in PCars1 and had them set to zero. I simply wasn't a fan.

I have read the Sop ReadMe texts, though. It's just too much fiddling for me. I'm going to stick with the Traditional 2.0 files.

rosko
13-02-2018, 17:13
What is the general consensus of the ffb in Pcars2 from the experts? I'm pretty much at my wits end & constantly fiddling with settings is just pcars continued from the first game. I can find more better cars than the first game & it can at times feel ok but it feels like a minefield from car to car still & fee i just can't set it up forget about it like i can in other sims.

RaceNut
13-02-2018, 20:09
What is the general consensus of the ffb in Pcars2 from the experts? I'm pretty much at my wits end & constantly fiddling with settings is just pcars continued from the first game. I can find more better cars than the first game & it can at times feel ok but it feels like a minefield from car to car still & fee i just can't set it up forget about it like i can in other sims.

I don't think we can expect to achieve the same results as we get with other sim's; it's just different. Every title has it's own recipe and flavor consisting of different ingredients and proportions.

I agree, PC2 FFB is not a "Set it and forget it" one; I have pretty good FFB in quite a few cars but, I still don't get the same satisfaction from driving them and that suggests that the issue may go well beyond FFB. It's just something that's hard to put my finger on, and it may be a combination of things. The closest we may get to PCars2 nirvana is likely to be by following Jack's recommendations regarding FFB. I've reached the point where I'm confident no amount of tweaking FFB is going to provide everything I'd like to have in PC2. That's okay; other titles have their strengths and I'm fine with a diverse playlist.

Jack Spade
14-02-2018, 14:35
I don't think we can expect to achieve the same results as we get with other sim's; it's just different. Every title has it's own recipe and flavor consisting of different ingredients and proportions.

I agree, PC2 FFB is not a "Set it and forget it" one; I have pretty good FFB in quite a few cars but, I still don't get the same satisfaction from driving them and that suggests that the issue may go well beyond FFB. It's just something that's hard to put my finger on, and it may be a combination of things. The closest we may get to PCars2 nirvana is likely to be by following Jack's recommendations regarding FFB. I've reached the point where I'm confident no amount of tweaking FFB is going to provide everything I'd like to have in PC2. That's okay; other titles have their strengths and I'm fine with a diverse playlist.

Regarding FFB no per car save option was SMS´s biggest mistake. It was there in WMD but not connected under the hood
though. No idea why it was removed later, but the user still can tune cars and lots of global stuff if he wants to, which is a
big advantage of pCARS. AC and rF2 maybe more set it and forget but there are many cars especially in rF2 that are just
awful and you can´t do anything about it. In PC2 those odd Lambos and some others I was able to rescue even with a
global file. SMS tried to make it simple but this bloody Tone slider seems to overwhelm too many people still.
The ideal game would be just one global FFB level slider and all cars perfectly tuned ex factory, you may ask yourself if
that ever will happen.

GrimeyDog
14-02-2018, 15:27
Finally some news on the Fanatec DDs, but it looks like they aren't coming until summer, at the earliest, assuming they don't run into any issues during the beta test. Think I'm going to just order a V2.5, and then give the DDs time to shake out. Not sure I want to be an early adopter on this one. I'd rather enjoy the V2.5 now, give them the rest of the of year to shake out the DDs (assuming they even release this summer), and upgrade again in early 2019.

Good news is... they increased the torque on the DDs. :)

Im Not going to get it right away either ---> i will wait for black friday sale... it will then be out long enough for some bugs to be worked with FW and stuff.

You wont Regret the v2.5!!! its a Nice diff over the v2.

Haiden
14-02-2018, 20:01
Im Not hoing to get it right away either ---> i will wait for black friday sale... it will then be out long enough for some bugs to be worked with FW and stuff.

You wont Regret the v2.5!!! its a Nice diff over the v2.

Yep. Given the delay, I think a little shakedown time will be needed.

GrimeyDog
17-02-2018, 17:42
Much more adjustable and much more space than the RS1!!!
Very Comfortable!!! I can finally do hand over hand wheel turns without lifting My shoulders from the back of the Chair:o

Haiden
18-02-2018, 16:43
Same. I got a little time in with them yesterday, and his files felt a lot different. I'm not using his new ones, with the car-specific Tone settings. But the previous version feels different now. Although, I'm wondering if it was a corrupted Custom file. The last time I tried Jack's files was quite a while ago, before that corruption issue was known. Either way, I definitely have better slip feel now.


You´re missing some things then.

You were right. I tried the Vol/Ton specific files and tested my favorites/regulars. I'd say most of them felt better, a few, like the Porsche 911 GT3 R, felt outright amazing. Still, there were some that didn't feel very good. It's definitely a pain in the butt having to look them up, but now that I've tried it, it'll be hard not to. Thanks!

Jack Spade
19-02-2018, 08:00
You were right. I tried the Vol/Ton specific files and tested my favorites/regulars. I'd say most of them felt better, a few, like the Porsche 911 GT3 R, felt outright amazing. Still, there were some that didn't feel very good. It's definitely a pain in the butt having to look them up, but now that I've tried it, it'll be hard not to. Thanks!

Although this game is up to date regarding most of it´s features, unfortunately dealing with certain things requires the reintroduction of archaic stuff.

morpwr
24-02-2018, 03:26
I got to race Ian Bell tonight. Hes a hack.lmao:p I don't know why but ive been seeing a lot of the guys from the forum suddenly when I race.

Jetsun
24-02-2018, 07:57
I got to race Ian Bell tonight. Hes a hack.lmao:p I don't know why but ive been seeing a lot of the guys from the forum suddenly when I race.
Already did beat him twice in rx lite career mode, now who's the boss :p