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Lagoa
10-09-2015, 12:52
I set this up at 'Real' when I started the game because I want it to be as authentic as possible. But I'm wondering if you can be faster or that some cars are easier to drive when you put them all off. For example road cars? I've tested the Audi R8 and it seemed easier (faster) without Stability control..

Also, when I set these at 'Real', does the game mean I'm racing them as they do IRL? Or does it just mean that a particular car has TC, ABS, and SC but when they race they turn these assists off IRL??

Basically, I just want the game to be as close to real life racing as possible. Only I don't know what cars actually use assits or what is allowed IRL.
So setting this at REAL should give me the correct racing?

flymar
10-09-2015, 12:55
So setting this at REAL should give me the correct racing?Yes.

Lagoa
10-09-2015, 14:07
So when an Audi R8 road car goes to race on a track all these assists are active IRL aswell?

Bealdor
10-09-2015, 14:10
So when an Audi R8 road car goes to race on a track all these assists are active IRL aswell?

Yes but you can disable some of them IRL and ingame.
You still have to ability to disable driving aids in "Real Assists" mode. The only thing you can't do is enable assists that the car doesn't have at all.

Mahjik
10-09-2015, 14:16
So when an Audi R8 road car goes to race on a track all these assists are active IRL aswell?

By default, yes.

To be honest, in most street cars, you can never completely disable the assists. Sure they have buttons to turn them off, but it basically just lowers them as they still kick-in even when switched off. With most modern cars, the only true way to disable these assists is to replace the ECU. However, to notice this, you have to be pushing car pretty hard and have quite a bit of track experience to notice the difference.

AlanK
10-09-2015, 14:19
I get confused with this in multiplayer online. For example, if the host has set Realistic Driving Aids to No, but all three Forced Restrictions are set to Yes, - and the car IRL would have e.g. ABS - do I get it or not?!

miagi
10-09-2015, 14:44
A Stability control, like ESP is a system to hold the car in a stable driving situation. The only way the car and system has are the brakes. Engaging the brakes individually it how the ESP stabilizes the car, that already answers you question, braking slows down the car. Conclusion is, the stabilizing costs you speed. so if you can control the car yourself, and you don't need SC, it will only make you slower.

About ABS and TC. Newest generation ABS system are really really good, still the top drivers on this planet are said to be quicker without it, but...
Being quicker on the hottest of hot laps, is something else than being quicker 10 or 20 laps in a row! Also, being quicker at the cost of doubling the tire wear is also questionable. Same goes for TC, it depends on the tire but on one hot lap, TC can often just slow you down. In a longer race, TC can be the most efficient compromise between pace and tire wear, because driving without TC at 95% of your pace without pushing the wear beyond 110%, that is the difference between a good and a very good driver.

TheReaper GT
10-09-2015, 15:04
I get confused with this in multiplayer online. For example, if the host has set Realistic Driving Aids to No, but all three Forced Restrictions are set to Yes, - and the car IRL would have e.g. ABS - do I get it or not?!

That's a force panel.

If the host set REAL to no, it means the players settings will not be changed. If he sets it to YES, all players will have real aids, like ABS and TC for GT3 cars and even stability control for BMW Z4. If the host set the forced restrictions to YES, it means they are allowed, but not forced.

Lagoa
10-09-2015, 16:13
Yes but you can disable some of them IRL and ingame.
You still have to ability to disable driving aids in "Real Assists" mode. The only thing you can't do is enable assists that the car doesn't have at all.

You mean during the race you can switch off assits? I'd have to have the buttom assigned first right? Is there an onscreen popup or something that tells me if I turned off/on an assist? And is it actually possible to see what car uses wich assists?

Bealdor
10-09-2015, 16:15
You mean during the race you can switch off assits? I'd have to have the buttom assigned first right? Is there an onscreen popup or something that tells me if I turned off/on an assist? And is it actually possible to see what car uses wich assists?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
4. Yes it's shown in the full HUD but only in external driving views.

TheReaper GT
10-09-2015, 16:16
You mean during the race you can switch off assits? I'd have to have the buttom assigned first right? Is there an onscreen popup or something that tells me if I turned off/on an assist? And is it actually possible to see what car uses wich assists?

For traction control you can check the traction control slip in the setup settings. If accessible the car have tc.

Lagoa
10-09-2015, 16:20
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No
4. Yes it's shown in the full HUD but only in external driving views.

Lol... Thanks for the reply. But seriously... If there is something pcars2 should do different it is: USER FRIENDLY. God... So time consuming this game. You have to figure everything out at forums or by yourself. Why can't I see wich assists are active in cockpit.. Don't understand. And how would I know if I turned off or on an assist if I forgot.

Lagoa
10-09-2015, 16:21
For traction control you can check the traction control slip in the setup settings. If accessible the car have tc.

So far, I can't remember seeying this slider greyed out once in a car setup..

Bealdor
10-09-2015, 16:23
So far, I can't remember seeying this slider greyed out once in a car setup..

That's a UI issue. The slider is not greyed out on any car when assists are set to "real". It doesn't have any effect on cars without TC though.

Lagoa
10-09-2015, 16:25
That's a UI issue. The slider is not greyed out on any car when assists are set to "real". It doesn't have any effect on cars without TC though.

So what SOi is saying is not correct?

TheReaper GT
10-09-2015, 16:32
So what SOi is saying is not correct?

I guess, I don't use assists and assumed it should be that way. They must fix it soon. What cars do you use most?

havocc
10-09-2015, 16:36
I hate having to switch from cockpit to external view to check what assist are on

flymar
10-09-2015, 18:30
I hate having to switch from cockpit to external view to check what assist are on
Well, that's why I switch to Real and forget about it.

Lagoa
10-09-2015, 19:31
Well, that's why I switch to Real and forget about it.

Yeah.. Don't really get why people play without assists... That's not how they race IRL so why bother.. Unless maybe with the road cars.

3800racingfool
10-09-2015, 20:19
Yeah.. Don't really get why people play without assists... That's not how they race IRL so why bother.. Unless maybe with the road cars.

Kicking them off on road cars is fun because you can get all smokey around a race track. For racing cars, it's handy to experiment with them once you get the car/track down because some of them can slow you down a little bit (TC especially).

miagi
10-09-2015, 21:09
Yeah.. Don't really get why people play without assists... That's not how they race IRL so why bother.. Unless maybe with the road cars.
There are two sides to this story. I'd never use SC because it is too powerful and banned by FIA. However, testing a car with ABS and TC can mask one or two balance resp. suspension issues. Then again in a race, there is a type of sim-racer that thinks he knows everything better up to such premature statements like "aids are for girls". The number of simracers that said something like that is so much higher than the number or race drivers that said that. A race driver is someone that's constantly looking for an advantage over his opponents, those guys are competition maniacs first and secondly drivers. Also a real race driver knows what is at stake and would rather not think a car is too easy to drive.

I've set my aids to real, that also means I race GT3 cars always with ABS on. I don't use TC in those because I don't need it. I get my setup to the point that I can handle the car, and then I appreciate the feedback I have without TC. Also on the GT3s I have nearly always the situation that one of my front tires wears faster than the rear, so I'm not in the need of super fine slip ratio control anyway.
I like to use TC on the P30, when to turbo kicks in, the car can be scary at times :P

PS: There is one more thing I'd like to say about the ABS in particular. I say it a few times that someone said the ABS is unrealistic and too good. When I drive the Mercedes 190E DTM car, one of the first race cars fitted with an race-ABS, I think I feel the quality difference to the ABS in a GT3 car.

CopperySinger5
10-09-2015, 21:17
thats why I turn all those assists off get in the cockpit and drive, BAM!!!

If you learn to race without assists you will never know they are missing, and you will be a faster, better, (top %5) racer.

Try doing a clean lap around Nordschleife with Lykan Hypersport no-assists. "priceless"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgDNEMd47Gk

Zanzibar
11-09-2015, 05:52
Call me strange but I enjoy the challenge of working out a good setup and trying to hustle the car through corners with no assists. It puts more emphasis on developing finesse and technique. It may not be how they race IRL but I think it's more fun. The cars feel more alive.

Lagoa
11-09-2015, 12:20
Talking about assits, anyone know what assists the Caterham SP300 uses when set to 'REAL'?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
11-09-2015, 12:34
Talking about assits, anyone know what assists the Caterham SP300 uses when set to 'REAL'?None.

You can check our setup sharing website for this as well (http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/bycar), just click the small circled "i" next to the car's name, it'll show the specs for the car, including what assists it has available.

We try to keep things as accurate as possible, but if anyone notices a mistake in the assists then feel free to notify us.

Lagoa
11-09-2015, 13:04
Yes but you can disable some of them IRL and ingame.
You still have to ability to disable driving aids in "Real Assists" mode. The only thing you can't do is enable assists that the car doesn't have at all.

I would like to test this in a race but I don't have enough buttons on my TX Wheel, really sucks... Is there any other way to do this? For example with using the controller aswell to get more buttons?

Tomcul
11-09-2015, 13:16
Real assists work better when mapped to buttons so you can turn them off. The problem with setting the assists to off in the options is when you have them mapped to buttons you can still turn them on even in cars that don't really have assists..
I race with all turned off but sometimes in the heat of battle on a wet track its nice to have the option of a little help!
So for me real assists are very good because if a car has none then it has none and if it has I can turn them off and on as I please..

CopperySinger5
11-09-2015, 13:19
Managing you car without assists is all about tuning and practice imo, this is the setup guide I use http://www.xploresimracing.com/Series/XSR_SetupGuide.pdf

Note:"This guide is not effective with assists turned on"

I think real assists keeps you from mistakes in driving. It is useful when racing on a heavily crowded race event when many cars are racing bumper-to-bumper.

If you must have assists, remember that your car will always have limitations.

Mr.Smoke
11-09-2015, 14:40
Yeah.. Don't really get why people play without assists... That's not how they race IRL so why bother.. Unless maybe with the road cars.

Because elitisim. They need to get that 5% trophy man.

TheReaper GT
11-09-2015, 14:45
To be honest I found the real artists the correct one , however, at the time I started playing online almost every host locked assists as off. If you play with stability control on you're screwed in those lobbies, because you get used to it and you end up making very aggressive inputs that are not tolerated of you have the assists off. So for the sake of consistency and to have only one learning curve I've opted to turn all off. There's no need to judge other people choices in this regard, just play your game the way you want. Some people like to defend their position attacking others like they're inferior, that's not cool.

Bealdor
11-09-2015, 14:46
To be honest I found the real artists the correct iron, however, at the time I started playing online almost every host locked assists as off. If you play with stability control on you're screwed in those lobbies, because you get used to it and you end up making very aggressive inputs that are not tolerated of you have the artists off. So for the sake of consistency and to have only one learning curve I've opted to turn all off. There's no need to judge other people choices in this regard, just pay your game the way you want. Some people like to defend their positron attacking others like their inferior, that's not cool.

Dude, your autocorrect is seriously trolling you, LOL!

TheReaper GT
11-09-2015, 14:49
Dude, your autocorrect is seriously trolling you, LOL!

Thing gone crazy today. Hahaha, all corrected now. ;D

LeonTheBad
11-09-2015, 15:13
This post is really helpful. I guess I will play 'real' but turn off everything except abs. Without abs, I spin at every corner.

Schnizz58
11-09-2015, 15:32
This post is really helpful. I guess I will play 'real' but turn off everything except abs. Without abs, I spin at every corner.
Try reducing the brake pressure and/or move the bias towards the front a little. I try to set the pressure & bias so that I don't lock up even at max braking.

Lagoa
11-09-2015, 15:37
To be honest I found the real artists the correct one , however, at the time I started playing online almost every host locked assists as off. If you play with stability control on you're screwed in those lobbies, because you get used to it and you end up making very aggressive inputs that are not tolerated of you have the assists off. So for the sake of consistency and to have only one learning curve I've opted to turn all off. There's no need to judge other people choices in this regard, just play your game the way you want. Some people like to defend their position attacking others like they're inferior, that's not cool.

I could give a rats*ss what people think, and certainly won't attack other players for doing what they do. I play pcars for the realism and I want to be racing as close to real life as possible, and if they use certain assists so will I. Just a matther of making it as realistic as possible.. That's my reason.

Zanzibar
11-09-2015, 16:28
Because elitisim. They need to get that 5% trophy man.

Some people enjoy playing games on the hardest difficulty and others not. It's all about what you find fun. Like I said in post 23, I think it's more fun to drive with assists off although I will use them with certain cars but never in TT mode.

Fight-Test
11-09-2015, 17:45
The reason GT3's have TC is to allow them to drive on the edge of the limit with more consistency. I'm not sure about in this game but in real life a GT3 racer will tell you it doesn't hurt or help the speed of the car or the times. What it does is allow you to drive those times lap after lap and in endurance racing and that is key. You might be able to get a extra tenth or two out of the car in qualifying by running TC off but over the course of 40 to 50 laps will having it off help or hurt you? I think that comes down to the individual driver in regards to this game. I tune my GT3's to run with traction control on even if I have it at a high slip percent. If I ran it off I would tune it for that and in the end they would feel pretty much the same. Guys with no TC on probably help the cars stability with the tune and guys that run with TC on try to free up the car working toward the same goal. We have a big group of GT3 endurance racers we run with and I dont know of one of them that runs with it off but we also run hour and half races with 2x wear and I think that situation would make more guys consider running with it on. I would like to hear from someone that runs GT3 endurance with TC off and how the consistency is over the course of 50 laps or more, especially when tires start to go. I honestly have never made a long run with TC off in a GT3.

Zanzibar
11-09-2015, 18:29
I think you hit the nail on the head Flight-Test. Assists play a more important role in races, especially enduros. I don't have superhuman levels of concentration to last 50+ laps with no assists and I certainly do not want to ruin other peoples races so I might turn on real assists when racing....but never in TT mode. Really puts things into perspective though when you think of all the real life drivers from bygone eras who drove double stints in Group 5 and 6 monsters that didn't have assists.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
11-09-2015, 21:52
The reason GT3's have TC is to allow them to drive on the edge of the limit with more consistency.Yes, and the whole car class is made primarily with the intention that privateers and amateurs should also be able to buy and race the cars, not just factory backed professionals.

miagi
11-09-2015, 22:09
The advantage of ABS is also that they can run very high brake pressure without locking up. So the bakes are not sensitive to cold temps.

Spitfire77
11-09-2015, 22:53
Try reducing the brake pressure and/or move the bias towards the front a little. I try to set the pressure & bias so that I don't lock up even at max braking.

You may be loosing some braking power at that point - when cars are going fast, their is more down force, and more rolling resistance so more brake pressure can be used. As you slow down and downforce reduces, you back of the brake a little to prevent lock up. Or if you were not going as fast in the first place you can't use as much brake.

It can be a difficult balance - I am not good at it but you can tell the fastest guys have mastered it.

Schnizz58
11-09-2015, 22:58
You may be loosing some braking power at that point - when cars are going fast, their is more down force, and more rolling resistance so more brake pressure can be used. As you slow down and downforce reduces, you back of the brake a little to prevent lock up. Or if you were not going as fast in the first place you can't use as much brake.

It can be a difficult balance - I am not good at it but you can tell the fastest guys have mastered it.
That's a good point. But if you prevent lockup on the initial braking, that's the important thing. You can always roll off your braking pressure deeper into the curve and if you're trail braking you have to let off some. But if you lock the inside tires at that point at least you're going slower and are less likely to spin out.

AdM1
11-09-2015, 23:03
Yeah.. Don't really get why people play without assists... That's not how they race IRL so why bother.. Unless maybe with the road cars.

Because we like a challenge, it's more fun imo. Trying to tame some of the cars can be hard work but it's so much more rewarding.

Spitfire77
11-09-2015, 23:20
That's a good point. But if you prevent lockup on the initial braking, that's the important thing. You can always roll off your braking pressure deeper into the curve and if you're trail braking you have to let off some. But if you lock the inside tires at that point at least you're going slower and are less likely to spin out.

Ah yes... I guess I should think about adjusting the brake pressure to not lock up maxed at the fastest point on the track. I use real assists so on some cars that should help me on the ones without ABS, giving me more range of travel on my brake pedal :yes:

Andario
24-10-2015, 12:33
Hello,

Yesterday I had an issue with the real driving assists
I have set it to real in the options. And was invited to a friends lobby with real assist.
So we startet quali and every break point the wheels stops and the car wasn't good in handling. He told me to move the abs slider a bit more to the right. But there wasn't that slider. Also the TC slider was missing. And when I want to assign it with a key the pop up screen show ABS - that it no information if it was turn on or off.
It was forces to cockpit view so i had no chance to get the info if it is now turned on or not. Only with trying.
I play on PS4