PDA

View Full Version : Hovering feeling



Bliman
13-09-2015, 00:01
Hi all,
I must say that Project Cars has given me some excellent moments and some terrible moments.
But there is something that I don't get corrected and that is the feeling of weight of the cars and feeling grip.
First I play on a Xbox One with a controller and have set the setting of the controller by a guide on this forum (thx Supaaafly), and I play with the settings on Real.
Now when I drive Super Rookie or Formula golf the car feels connected to the road and everything feels great , but with some racecars and especially roadcars (ruf, etc..) I get this floating feeling when driving (all with cockpit view).
It's like I am swerving on the road with no precise control and like there is no contact with the road.
I have tried different setups but still don't get enough control.
Does anyone recognize this and did you resolve this problem, and how?
Please o please SMS if this is a sim and you also want the newcomers of sims aboard make a guide how all the tuning set up works (you must look how thick the manual for some flight sims are ;) ).
After all this time off playing I still don't know how to tune the car correctly (like differential must I set the numbers low or high to get more grip, how do I know if I drive with to low pressure in the tires ,etc...) .
I know there are a lots of guides but the problem is implementing them. When I change something I don't feel the change quickly especially because you must warm up the tires everytime.
Maybe it's just me and you are supposed to put 1000's of hours in it before everything becomes natural and you know how to set up the cars.
I must say that I was so pumped up before the game was out and boy do they make good trailers(goose bump stuff).
And I try so hard of getting the hang of it (because it seems so well received by real racers), but the feeling of some of the cars, it seems it would be mandatory to play it with a wheel.
SMS is this sim made with the thought of controlling with a controller or a wheel as most important control?
Thanks for listening and hopefully some good advice (Thx SMS for releasing a race sim on the consoles).
Regards
Manuel

STEELJOCKEY
13-09-2015, 01:36
Those who are quick have put in a lot of hours, not just here but more so on previous sims/racing games to pick up skills/reflexes and tuning knowledge. You will get quicker as you learn more. And a wheel certainly gives me more control and considerably more enjoyment, than racing with a controller.

Agree with you on the lack of instructions, but we are all stuck with it, and lots of reading here will eventually help you understanding what's going on.

Tip with tyre temperatures, pull up telemetry and check the temperatures after doing 3 laps or more. You are looking to get your temps in the low 90 degrees, but high 80's to high 90's can be handled in short areas.

If your tyre temps are too low, you need to lower your tyre pressures heat them up, and if your temps are too high you need to increase your tyre pressures.

Try going through the 21 step guide for tuning.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23371-Car-setup-guides&p=895031&viewfull=1#post895031

Ixoye56
13-09-2015, 09:48
I share your feeling when it comes to road cars, it's a bit like driving a boat, doesn't feel realistic at all.

Johngrim
13-09-2015, 09:59
Try driving at the same speed you would a real road car ie less than 30 mph .You will see lots of grip and no as you put it floating.You would not get into your own car and hit the throttle full and at the end of your street try to get round the corner doing 70mph if so your real car would be floating off the road. My point is look what speeds you are doing and equate them to real life.

Plato99
13-09-2015, 11:04
The Classic DTM Merc is a prime example.
In cockpit and helmet cam it's like driving on marbles.
In bonnet cam it's much more driveable.
Go figure!?

bobbylion
13-09-2015, 11:38
Try driving at the same speed you would a real road car ie less than 30 mph .You will see lots of grip and no as you put it floating.You would not get into your own car and hit the throttle full and at the end of your street try to get round the corner doing 70mph if so your real car would be floating off the road. My point is look what speeds you are doing and equate them to real life.

But i have driven road cars on tracks and floored the throttle and never floated off track....

Having said that i don't feel this floaty feeling in the PCars road cars? Tighten the damper settings? (if there are some, I've never bothered to mess with road cars too much in game)

bobbylion
13-09-2015, 11:39
The Classic DTM Merc is a prime example.
In cockpit and helmet cam it's like driving on marbles.
In bonnet cam it's much more driveable.
Go figure!?

Not trying to be a hero but i genuinely don't feel the Merc is like marbles, the Cozzie RS500 on cold tyres though is a yes from me...

Bliman
13-09-2015, 13:01
Thanks for the input and guide (just printed it :)).
I unfortunately haven't driven on racetracks.
But when I for example take the Ruf RGT-8 and drive on the kemmel straight in Spa and push light to left or right there isn't any feeling of grip and the car floats from left to right like it's floating in the wind.
It's hard to explain.
It feels like you either get it good in corners or go from understeer to oversteer in corners but there is no grip when going straight and the car feels much lighter like there is no weight.
I don't really know if this is realistic or not but it results in me going on the straight and hovering with as little input as possible, going in to a corner with little feeling what's going on in the car then under or oversteering unless decreasing the speed where I don't have much speed anymore, and repeat. Not much joy in that.
I must emphasis that it isn't on every car and some cars are brilliant like the formula gulf, ginetta g40, etc.. which reacts just like I would expect in real life.
Does anyone who drives on tracks or races in real life also get the feeling I describe here and is it realistic and do I have to work my head around it?
Thanks
Manuel

Sankyo
13-09-2015, 13:32
I share your feeling when it comes to road cars, it's a bit like driving a boat, doesn't feel realistic at all.
I still haven't made up my mind about this. Road cars have a lot less grip and hence are very easily overdriven in the game because of the lack of sensation of speed when sitting in front of a computer screen. On the other hand, even family cars have an initial bite when turning the wheel, which I feel is lacking in the game currently. Of course they should understeer if going too fast, but there should be some turn-in bite and not instant understeer IMHO.

MAARTEN
13-09-2015, 13:36
With correct feedback from steering wheel and perhaps some inductors like the Buttkicker Gamer 2 you should feel a lot more when the car loose traction.
Feedback via feeling is just as important as the visual/audiable.

Umer Ahmad
13-09-2015, 16:05
Generally speaking the road cars have less FFB feel than the race cars. You can adjust lthe FFB STRENGTH and TYRE FORCES to compensate but i appreciate those are largely global controls and it can get tiresome. However, there are FFB settings in each car's setup screen as well.

madmax2069
13-09-2015, 16:19
Generally speaking the road cars have less FFB feel than the race cars. You can adjust lthe FFB STRENGTH and TYRE FORCES to compensate but i appreciate those are largely global controls and it can get tiresome. However, there are FFB settings in each car's setup screen as well.

Indeed because most of the road cars have some kind of power steering (some of which completely remove any kind of road feel, and what the car is doing), vs a race car where most do not have any power steering (and if they do its very basic) which allows you can feel the road and what the car is doing.

MAARTEN
13-09-2015, 18:03
Indeed because most of the road cars have some kind of power steering (some of which completely remove any kind of road feel, and what the car is doing), vs a race car where most do not have any power steering (and if they do its very basic) which allows you can feel the road and what the car is doing.

Good point.

Bliman
13-09-2015, 23:16
Thanks again,
I am going to take another approach from now on.
Before , I started the career and tried to do a few laps in free practice and tried to do a good qualifying lap and in the meanwhile I tinkered with the setup a little .
I did the race and was off to the next without knowing the car very well.
Today I have ridden with the telemetry on (hopefully there comes a solution where you can look at the telemetry after you have ridden, like in the garage).
And looked at tyre temperature and used my concentration on driving the car and feeling what's going on and tweaking it with the guide.
It felt a little bit better, I think:D , but boy you must use your concentration.
I think to become good at this game it demands time, dedication and lots of sweat.
Now I chose the free practice mode and tweaked the car for a hour or so and wanted it to save as my default setup.
But I don't know how to do that, must I write all the settings down ?
And then put them in the garage in the set up, or must I do it in another way ?
One last thing (maybe better for the set up section) , is steering lock the same as steering ratio, and must I set the setting to faster to turn more?
Thanks
Manuel

AdM1
13-09-2015, 23:23
Raise the controller filtering sensitivity might help..

WhoosierGirl
14-09-2015, 16:59
I still haven't made up my mind about this. Road cars have a lot less grip and hence are very easily overdriven in the game because of the lack of sensation of speed when sitting in front of a computer screen. On the other hand, even family cars have an initial bite when turning the wheel, which I feel is lacking in the game currently. Of course they should understeer if going too fast, but there should be some turn-in bite and not instant understeer IMHO.

The Ruf road cars are the closest in the game to my real life car (Cayman S) and they don't have as secure a feeling to the road as mine does. I have obviously never gone as fast IRL as in the game but, I have gone fast enough to go to jail and never had the floating feeling the game cars have. I was using the CTR3 and the RT 12R on the California Stage 3 this weekend (couldn't stop smiling :)) and couldn't tune the float out of either of them.

Is the floating feeling a result of the tire model or the car itself? Nothing I changed helped, not complaining just wondering, I had a blast throwing both cars around either way.

The floating can be seen really well here from the in car view around 1:20 and replay view around 3:15, this was some of the most fun I have had playing Project Cars so far.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbHv-1c6VzY

Bliman
14-09-2015, 23:13
Thanks WhoosierGirl,
That's exactly what I am feeling to.
And you off course have a nice reference.
There is this floating sensation that I can't get rid off. It's like you can only point your car vaguely where you wanted it to go.
Can also someone point me how you can save a default set up. I know you can go to the garage and input and save your setup there.
But if you for example tune your set up in free practice, how do you save this set up so you can use it in other races? Do you have to write it down and then put it in manually in the garage?
Regards
Manuel
PS: WhoosierGirl congratulations on your beautiful car :cool:

Schnizz58
14-09-2015, 23:29
Is the floating feeling a result of the tire model or the car itself?
I would guess that it stems from the fact that there is zero force feedback when driving in a straight line. When you drive a real car the "road noise" helps you feel connected to the road. In the game if you're on a smooth track going in a straight line, you feel nothing at all. Just a guess though.


Can also someone point me how you can save a default set up.
There's no need to save the default setup. It's basically built into the game. Select any car and choose Create New Setup and that loads the default setup for that car. Then you can edit it and save it for whatever track(s) you want.


I know you can go to the garage and input and save your setup there. But if you for example tune your set up in free practice, how do you save this set up so you can use it in other races? Do you have to write it down and then put it in manually in the garage?
No, you just save it and it should save to the track you're on in free practice. Then when you go to a race at that same track, the setup should still be there. That said, there's a bug where sometimes the setups don't get saved properly in career mode.

Ixoye56
15-09-2015, 07:58
Thanks WhoosierGirl,
That's exactly what I am feeling to.
And you off course have a nice reference.
There is this floating sensation that I can't get rid off. It's like you can only point your car vaguely where you wanted it to go.
Can also someone point me how you can save a default set up. I know you can go to the garage and input and save your setup there.
But if you for example tune your set up in free practice, how do you save this set up so you can use it in other races? Do you have to write it down and then put it in manually in the garage?
Regards
Manuel
PS: WhoosierGirl congratulations on your beautiful car :cool:

It will be saved to the track you're on in free practice, you can load that save later in Garage and save it to another location.

baz00ka
15-09-2015, 10:05
dunno about that. i havent driven a porsche or anything similar to it with aero design and package at crazy in game speeds or at speeds to do time for but i have driven some road cars at their limit of 140-150mph and at those speeds they felt very disconnected from the surface. it felt like there is no downforce whatsoever and everything is superlight and floaty. i would have been shitting bricks if i tried to execute any manoeuvres with that kinda feel and speeds involved.


The Ruf road cars are the closest in the game to my real life car (Cayman S) and they don't have as secure a feeling to the road as mine does. I have obviously never gone as fast IRL as in the game but, I have gone fast enough to go to jail and never had the floating feeling the game cars have. I was using the CTR3 and the RT 12R on the California Stage 3 this weekend (couldn't stop smiling :)) and couldn't tune the float out of either of them.

Is the floating feeling a result of the tire model or the car itself? Nothing I changed helped, not complaining just wondering, I had a blast throwing both cars around either way.

The floating can be seen really well here from the in car view around 1:20 and replay view around 3:15, this was some of the most fun I have had playing Project Cars so far.

nemo06
15-09-2015, 10:35
dunno about that. i havent driven a porsche or anything similar to it with aero design and package at crazy in game speeds or at speeds to do time for but i have driven some road cars at their limit of 140-150mph and at those speeds they felt very disconnected from the surface. it felt like there is no downforce whatsoever and everything is superlight and floaty. i would have been shitting bricks if i tried to execute any manoeuvres with that kinda feel and speeds involved.

OK, you're probably right, but AI cars are perfectly stable and it is difficult to win.

baz00ka
15-09-2015, 10:46
the only road car i have driven in game against AI is McLaren F1 (also BAC Mono which is my favourite but its more like road legal than road car really) and AI driving them are certainly not on rails (if they are good smoke and mirrors then) as they tail slide fairly often, go wide and go off track in places at least sometimes. that was at 80% difficulty so maybe they get more stable at higher levels. so it was challenging with that car but it didnt seem unfair to me.

Mr Akina
15-09-2015, 11:27
Indeed because most of the road cars have some kind of power steering (some of which completely remove any kind of road feel, and what the car is doing), vs a race car where most do not have any power steering (and if they do its very basic) which allows you can feel the road and what the car is doing.

Eh? Unless you're driving something extremely basic, all race cars have power steering. Most are very advanced and even allow the driver to fine-tune the handling on the fly.

nemo06
15-09-2015, 12:12
Moreover, there is something else that does not work well.
I'm in career mode in the Asian trophy with GT4.
Well, my Aston Martin is perfect in Dubai (3 second of advantage per lap at 70%), while it is difficult to ride in Sakitto.

WhoosierGirl
15-09-2015, 18:29
Thanks WhoosierGirl,
That's exactly what I am feeling to.
And you off course have a nice reference.
There is this floating sensation that I can't get rid off. It's like you can only point your car vaguely where you wanted it to go.
Can also someone point me how you can save a default set up. I know you can go to the garage and input and save your setup there.
But if you for example tune your set up in free practice, how do you save this set up so you can use it in other races? Do you have to write it down and then put it in manually in the garage?
Regards
Manuel
PS: WhoosierGirl congratulations on your beautiful car :cool:

Changing the setup in practice will automatically save that setup for that track. Thank you, paid of school loans and bought myself a present :).



dunno about that. i havent driven a porsche or anything similar to it with aero design and package at crazy in game speeds or at speeds to do time for but i have driven some road cars at their limit of 140-150mph and at those speeds they felt very disconnected from the surface. it felt like there is no downforce whatsoever and everything is superlight and floaty. i would have been shitting bricks if i tried to execute any manoeuvres with that kinda feel and speeds involved.

I was brought home as a baby from the hospital in a Porsche and have been in almost ever model made over the last twenty+ years and none feel as disconnected from the road as the one's in the game. It really doesn't bother me because, while mine sits safe and sound in the garage, I have flipped, crashed and otherwise abused the living daylights out of SMS's renditions in the game, lol.

EDIT; My brother had a 968 that he ran into the ground, it felt very disconnected from the road!

Bliman
15-09-2015, 23:46
Ok thanks everyone for pointing out how to save.
This is going to be a weird post but it feels like I have to say it.
This game could have been a world class game ,it already is but it could have been much greater and with some time and different paths chosen down the development path it would have shined like nothing before it.
Since a couple of days my eyes have opened.
It all began when I started looking at the guide and telemetry.
I now ride all alone on the road I tweak the car to my liking and I begin to appreciate all the effort that has gone in all the details of the car and physics.
I suddenly started feeling why the car didn't brake as good (because they weren't warmed up enough), I started setting up the car and everytime I come closer to feeling connected with the car.
No more oversteer (not so much anymore) when driving over curbs, etc...
This game is like building a rocket for going to mars (which is very hard), but all the public sees is how there is something stupid painted on the side, they forgot some windows (who for some is essential), but the core of the rocket is very good but nobody knows it because nobody from NASA explained what is possible and what is going on under the hood.
It would have been brilliant if SMS took us by the hand and showed us in the game how about using the telemetry correctly (and making it available to use in replay and using it in the garage).
What all the settings mean in the setup and how to use them in what situation (I didn't have a clue, I came from a Gran Turismo and Forza background).
Wouldn't it be cool if there were challenges how to race correctly, think about how to overtake correctly, how to take corners and how to defend properly. Like learning how to be a real racepilot.
It would have been a leading simulator for a long time, I guess.
I would like to say to the developers and all who worked on the game, that they have a very good core of the game and I thank them for it.
I just wanted to state that so much what's going on under the hood goes by unnoticed and it would be great if it would be more exposed in the game, because I don't have the time to look in every forum to look what's possible, and what to look out for.
I had almost given up on the game, fortunately I didn't.
Maybe some of the things that I have said are things that the developers could look for if it is a good path to go on for the next game.
I hope this post wasn't to weird and if it was I will try to stay between the lanes next time:D
Regards
Manuel

Schnizz58
16-09-2015, 00:16
I couldn't agree more Bliman. Especially the part about the how-tos. There were limitations imposed by the consoles (telemetry replay) and I'm sure there were things they wanted to add but ran out of time. But a lot of grief could have been saved with a good manual for tuning settings and also FFB settings (there is a pretty decent FFB guide but a lot of people complain that it's over their heads).

Also, I think there are a lot of folks that don't care about tuning & FFB and just want to race. They don't want to spend hours trying different options and running practice laps. I'm just the opposite so I enjoy geeking out on all the different knobs and switches and trying them all out to find out what they do.

nemo06
16-09-2015, 07:41
... (also BAC Mono which is my favourite but its more like road legal than road car really)...


I tested yesterday the BAC, it is a wonderful car, very easy and fun to drive.
Try the Audi R8, you will see that difference, seems like a boat. If that real be so, the owners would all be dead.

baz00ka
16-09-2015, 23:21
havent driven them for real so its impossible for me to judge this sort of thing tho if you comparing the mono to r8 just in game and on specs alone and how you think they should feel and behave yeah i would expect the audi to feel a bit like a boat in comparison, its a heavy car with understeer and suspension built for road use and the mono is just the complete opposite so it should feel more lively and edgy and fun on track which it does in game. safety wise in real life i would take audi no question about it. with real road conditions, in wet and when temperatures drop (not mentioning snow and ice as that would be bat shit crazy in mono) bac to me seems like a one way ticket.


I tested yesterday the BAC, it is a wonderful car, very easy and fun to drive.
Try the Audi R8, you will see that difference, seems like a boat. If that real be so, the owners would all be dead.

Bliman
09-10-2015, 23:54
Sorry guys for bumping up this thread.
But I found the cause for the hovering floating feeling.
It turned out it was the set up.
You have to turn the front toe in to the left (in the ruf ctr3 all the way) and away goes the floating feeling and it made a huge difference.
I am getting the feeling for setting up the car.
And I must applaud the developers for making this sim (ok not everything is perfect, but what is).
Since I was a little boy (now 38) I watch F1, but thanks to this sim I get the feeling how it must be like for them.
And how difficult it all must be (whole the set up, warming tires and brakes, choosing the right moment,etc...).
So again thanks for making me feel like a race driver (the closest I will ever be:) ).
Hope my tip helped.
Till next time , keep racing.