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Pink_650S
15-09-2015, 10:17
Can someone patch this thirsty car please?
Its fuel consumption is ridiculously high, it counts the liters down like seconds - on Monza even quicker.

Cheesenium
15-09-2015, 10:22
In the mean time, Huayra flaps also needs fixing, especially AI's cars where the flaps are consistently open at maximum angle in races.

Pink_650S
15-09-2015, 10:28
In the mean time, Huayra flaps also needs fixing, especially AI's cars where the flaps are consistently open at maximum angle in races.

Whats wrong with the player's car flaps?

Okay, lets make this a 'Fix all Pagani Cars'-Thread!
The pulling to the left issue also needs fixing, all Pagani cars suffer from it.

And before Mods give me advice, no, l didnt mess with the setup and no, its not up to the player to make a car go in a straight line.
Its very annoying, especially on long straights.

Cheesenium
15-09-2015, 11:16
Whats wrong with the player's car flaps?

Okay, lets make this a 'Fix all Pagani Cars'-Thread!
The pulling to the left issue also needs fixing, all Pagani cars suffer from it.

And before Mods give me advice, no, l didnt mess with the setup and no, its not up to the player to make a car go in a straight line.
Its very annoying, especially on long straights.

It is just a bugbear of mine with the game as the Huayra looks odd when you see the AI using them.

The flaps on AI Huayra are bugged where they do not move dynamically during the race. They are stuck in the maximum angle for both front and back flaps like the screenshot below.

http://i.imgur.com/eSaBmjU.jpg

The flaps should move like the video below or at least disable the animated flaps for AI's car so they stay closed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1zXCAPbJYk

However, the flaps are working perfectly fine for the player's car, not in replay though.

Cheesenium
15-09-2015, 11:26
For your fuel consumption question, I think we need to check whether is the real car is a gas guzzler or not.

Based on Wikipedia source, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagani_Huayra) Huayra has fairly high fuel consumption of 10 mpg (23 l/100 km) in city and 14 mpg (17 l/100 km) in highway. Note that you are driving on a racing pace, the fuel consumption will be even higher.

It is comparably higher than R8 V10 that has 12.9L/100km. Source (http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/audi-r8-v8-v10-and-v10-plus-review-12270#.Vff_VpfUuc4).

Even the racing R8 GT3 or LMS Ultra has lower fuel consumption than Huayra which is 14.9-12.4 l/100 km. Source (http://www.audi-motorsport.com/de/en/gt-sport/technik.html).

At the moment, I think pCARS is right with Huayra.

I'll try and find the fuel consumption of other Road A cars, I reckon it will be fairly high compared to other cars in the game as most of them has much larger engine.

Pink_650S
15-09-2015, 11:54
For your fuel consumption question, I think we need to check whether is the real car is a gas guzzler or not.

Based on Wikipedia source, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagani_Huayra) Huayra has fairly high fuel consumption of 10 mpg (23 l/100 km) in city and 14 mpg (17 l/100 km) in highway. Note that you are driving on a racing pace, the fuel consumption will be even higher.

It is comparably higher than R8 V10 that has 12.9L/100km. Source (http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/audi-r8-v8-v10-and-v10-plus-review-12270#.Vff_VpfUuc4).

Even the racing R8 GT3 or LMS Ultra has lower fuel consumption than Huayra which is 14.9-12.4 l/100 km. Source (http://www.audi-motorsport.com/de/en/gt-sport/technik.html).

At the moment, I think pCARS is right with Huayra.

I'll try and find the fuel consumption of other Road A cars, I reckon it will be fairly high compared to other cars in the game as most of them has much larger engine.

Well, l started a race with 50 liters and after two laps l was left with only 5 liters.
Does that sound right?

Mr Akina
15-09-2015, 12:08
Well, l started a race with 50 liters and after two laps l was left with only 5 liters.
Does that sound right?

That's 0.7 mpg. So I would say that's excessive, even at race pace. The Veyron's W16 still gets 2.1 mpg at top speed lol

Cheesenium
15-09-2015, 12:08
Well, l started a race with 50 liters and after two laps l was left with only 5 liters.
Does that sound right?

Do you really need to reply in that sort of tone?

I'll go do some races and see how does this car fuel consumption in the game.

madmax2069
15-09-2015, 12:15
Well, l started a race with 50 liters and after two laps l was left with only 5 liters.
Does that sound right?


10MPG city, 14mpg highway are at normal driving conditions (aka not flooring it and going top speed). Flooring it and going flat out in a straight line is going to be a whole different story (going to be far worse on a road track slowing down and accelerate full bore constantly), the fuel isn't going to last too long especially with a fuel tank much smaller then that of a race car. Its almost literally the same reason why MPG is lower in city then it is on highway because in the city you're going at a slower speed, constantly stopping and going.

Its not too out of the question when a Veyron (which granted has a W16) going flat out will have fuel usage thats 2.3MPG which will only last around 12 minutes with a full 26.4 gallon tank. But thats going in a straight line, if on a track and having to slow down and accelerate full bore fuel milage is going to be much much worse.

Beatminister
15-09-2015, 12:32
Well, the Paganis certainly wont get a commendation from Greenpeace, thats for sure. I noticed it with Zonda R in LeMans 24h. There it used close to 50L per 100km. Pedal to the metal, of course. Well, so what - a Abrahams tank uses even more... :)

Cheesenium
15-09-2015, 12:57
I had done 2 races with Pagani Huayra.

First one was a 10 laps race at Spa with the car starting out at 85L. After the 10 laps race, I ended up with 28L.

The second race was at Monza where the car also started out with 85L, I have 61.0L left after 5 laps. The car did not use 45L in 2 laps like what you mentioned.

That is 0.8L/km or 80L/100km on Spa and Monza. That should be about right for driving a Huayra at racing pace with pedal to the floor and hard breaking. Definitely not as high as what you claimed as I did not ran out of fuel after 3 laps on Monza.

Mahjik
15-09-2015, 13:21
It is just a bugbear of mine with the game as the Huayra looks odd when you see the AI using them.


Possibly due to the simplified AI physics data not being available for the flaps.

Cheesenium
15-09-2015, 13:52
Possibly due to the simplified AI physics data not being available for the flaps.

Well, SMS could just leave the flaps closed all the time for AI Huayra than leaving it open all the time.

Also, on the starting grid, AI Huayra had their flaps closed. Only after the race starts, the flaps opened and stuck in opened position for the whole race, like the screenshot posted. It is quite an eye sore and a bad representation of the car, to be honest which I do not see why cant the flaps be left closed for the whole race or give AI Huayra a simpler symmetrical animation that similar to Shift 2.

Even in replays, the player's Huayra had their back flaps stuck in fully opened position but the front flaps are animating as intended. It is a bug , considering other car's active aero are working fine for the AI.

Back in the days of WMD, it was working until close to release. Started a thread in technical support and there isnt any reply on this bug.

TheReaper GT
15-09-2015, 13:55
In the mean time, Huayra flaps also needs fixing, especially AI's cars where the flaps are consistently open at maximum angle in races.

Here the flaps move during race, they only get stuck in replays , which is not cool either.

Mahjik
15-09-2015, 13:55
Well, SMS could just leave the flaps closed all the time for AI Huayra than leaving it open all the time.

Open or closed, either way they wouldn't be animated so someone would complain no matter which way they picked. Your preference is just closed while others may be opened. ;)


Back in the days of WMD, it was working at a point of a time.

I'm not sure they were really functioning properly (like DRS for the AI) back then. It almost appears like a conscious decision to have them this way.

Cheesenium
15-09-2015, 15:09
Open or closed, either way they wouldn't be animated so someone would complain no matter which way they picked. Your preference is just closed while others may be opened. ;)



I'm not sure they were really functioning properly (like DRS for the AI) back then. It almost appears like a conscious decision to have them this way.

Why left it open then? Considering most of the time it is closed except it is braking?

It makes no sense that this car's active aero worked in Shift 2in a much simple animation, then, in pCARS it is broken and it isnt fixed yet. I am not asking for the complex algorithm, at least just let it permanently closed or it runs on a simpler animation system for Ai.

It was working in early alpha in a much simple animation for AI. This was one of the earliest cars that get active aero in development.

Cheesenium
15-09-2015, 15:31
Here is a video with working flaps back in the alpha. With both AI and player having working flaps in replay too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrzmk_rVEgc

While we have Huayras with flaps opened at maximum angle through out the race in the current game. It looks really odd because Huayra supposed to do that under breaking, not all the time.

http://i.imgur.com/BdR9I9d.jpg

resmania
15-09-2015, 16:11
I still don't understand why SMS had to use simplified data for AI/replay mode. All other racing sims seems to have good representation of AI car AA behavior and sound(This includes simcade games like Forza, and they have separated Active Aero movement just like in real life). Not to mention the overly simplified replay data we have now.

Seelenkrank
15-09-2015, 16:15
I had done 2 races with Pagani Huayra.

First one was a 10 laps race at Spa with the car starting out at 85L. After the 10 laps race, I ended up with 28L.

The second race was at Monza where the car also started out with 85L, I have 61.0L left after 5 laps. The car did not use 45L in 2 laps like what you mentioned.

That is 0.8L/km or 80L/100km on Spa and Monza. That should be about right for driving a Huayra at racing pace with pedal to the floor and hard breaking. Definitely not as high as what you claimed as I did not ran out of fuel after 3 laps on Monza.

hmm i had the race day with the huayra once on monza and needed ~5L/lap (around 2-2,5 more per lap then a SLS GT3)
for a 10 lap race its ok but i dont want to do endurance with this car :D

TheDoctor46
15-09-2015, 16:33
I still don't understand why SMS had to use simplified data for AI/replay mode. All other racing sims seems to have good representation of AI car AA behavior and sound(This includes simcade games like Forza, and they have separated Active Aero movement just like in real life). Not to mention the overly simplified replay data we have now.
Because every other sim doesnt run on consoles :p And one of the highest priorities was to have equal simulation level across all plattforms :)

Agreed about the Huayra flaps.

Schnizz58
15-09-2015, 16:42
I still don't understand why SMS had to use simplified data for AI/replay mode. All other racing sims seems to have good representation of AI car AA behavior and sound(This includes simcade games like Forza, and they have separated Active Aero movement just like in real life). Not to mention the overly simplified replay data we have now.
Because there wasn't enough processing power in the consoles to run a full grid (or even a partial grid) of AI cars using the same physics model as the player's car. Of course that could also be an indication that the physics model is too complex.

Mahjik
15-09-2015, 17:22
Here is a video with working flaps back in the alpha. With both AI and player having working flaps in replay too.


I think the issue is/was that the flaps are not directly tied to the cars physics, so they just operate up or down based on acceleration (which is not exactly how the real flaps work). However, this is speculation as like you, I don't have access to the reason behind why it's locked currently.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
15-09-2015, 18:34
I had done 2 races with Pagani Huayra.

First one was a 10 laps race at Spa with the car starting out at 85L. After the 10 laps race, I ended up with 28L.

The second race was at Monza where the car also started out with 85L, I have 61.0L left after 5 laps. The car did not use 45L in 2 laps like what you mentioned.

That is 0.8L/km or 80L/100km on Spa and Monza. That should be about right for driving a Huayra at racing pace with pedal to the floor and hard breaking. Definitely not as high as what you claimed as I did not ran out of fuel after 3 laps on Monza.That's a bit under 4 mpg, which is about where I've read many other super/hypercars are as well when driven on the track, depending on the driver at least.

Pink_650S
16-09-2015, 01:33
Do you really need to reply in that sort of tone?

I'll go do some races and see how does this car fuel consumption in the game.

Sort of tone?
It was a normal question :D

Cheesenium
16-09-2015, 02:06
I think the issue is/was that the flaps are not directly tied to the cars physics, so they just operate up or down based on acceleration (which is not exactly how the real flaps work). However, this is speculation as like you, I don't have access to the reason behind why it's locked currently.

I am aware that the physics is not tied to physics.

I managed to stopped an AI huayra completely yesterday, the flaps came down to flat position. It only got stucked again once the AI started accelerating.

I am only asking if SMS could at least give the Huayra laps a simple animation system for AI Huayra. Instead of the current broken animation system that does not portray the car in good light.

If not, just leave it closed through out in the races for AI.

Cheesenium
16-09-2015, 02:10
That's a bit under 4 mpg, which is about where I've read many other super/hypercars are as well when driven on the track, depending on the driver at least.

From what I read last night, it seemed like the figures are about right.

Cars like a Huayra is definitely a billionaire's car. Not for most people. I was complaining how expensive to drive a rental Ford Falcon FG XR2, pumping petrol for a Huayra will murder my wallet.

hkraft300
16-09-2015, 07:27
It's a 750-odd horsepower twin turbo V12. Twin turbo. 12 cylinders. 750hp. In a 1400kg car. On a race track going full boost. An awesome twin-turbo V12. In an awesome car. F* the digital environment. Them trackside e-trees can wither and die from e-climate change.

senn
16-09-2015, 08:47
Make sure Fuel Consumption is set to real not x2 or x5 etc. This can sometimes change if you have been on a server where this is the case. The front left flap on the Huarya on my game at least has some funky texture stretch/incorrect texture on the inside edge of it too.

N0body Of The Goat
16-09-2015, 09:00
Make sure Fuel Consumption is set to real not x2 or x5 etc. This can sometimes change if you have been on a server where this is the case. The front left flap on the Huarya on my game at least has some funky texture stretch/incorrect texture on the inside edge of it too.

I haven't checked in a while, but I thought the only options for fuel under "gameplay" were off; slow; real.

Has that changed?

Cheesenium
16-09-2015, 09:06
Make sure Fuel Consumption is set to real not x2 or x5 etc. This can sometimes change if you have been on a server where this is the case. The front left flap on the Huarya on my game at least has some funky texture stretch/incorrect texture on the inside edge of it too.

I noticed that too, it looks like those textures that you get after you crashed into something.

I thought I accidentally hit a car and got that.

senn
16-09-2015, 09:09
I haven't checked in a while, but I thought the only options for fuel under "gameplay" were off; slow; real.

Has that changed?

No I'm just silly enough to have confused time advance with fuel/tyre wear. You're correct, only 2 options, Slow/Real

senn
16-09-2015, 09:21
if my maths is right the Huarya, at full throttle consumes around 100mL of fuel a second. Seems to tally if you put it against the wall and spin the rears in 1st.

Pink_650S
16-09-2015, 09:34
if my maths is right the Huarya, at full throttle consumes around 100mL of fuel a second. Seems to tally if you put it against the wall and spin the rears in 1st.

I'll upload a video later today. Then you wont have to discuss real world fuel consumption anymore.
Why would l come here only for the heck of it and create a thread about a certain car that consumes unrealistically much fuel? Why would l do something like that? ;)

senn
16-09-2015, 09:41
I've tried to recreate what you say happened to you. I can't find this issue on Monza GP or any other track at this stage. I wanted to make sure my game was doing it right, which it seems to be. Let me know what your settings are and record and post a video of this occuring if you can so we can reproduce it. It might even be a PS4 only issue?

Pink_650S
16-09-2015, 09:54
I've tried to recreate what you say happened to you. I can't find this issue on Monza GP or any other track at this stage. I wanted to make sure my game was doing it right, which it seems to be. Let me know what your settings are and record and post a video of this occuring if you can so we can reproduce it. It might even be a PS4 only issue?

With settings you mean the setup?
Default setup, you know, the one where the car pulls to the left. :p

Cheesenium
16-09-2015, 09:57
if my maths is right the Huarya, at full throttle consumes around 100mL of fuel a second. Seems to tally if you put it against the wall and spin the rears in 1st.

It is definitely one of the worse fuel guzzlers in the whole game.

You can literally see 300ml of fuel burnt when you hold down your accelerator on the starting for a few seconds.

I had done 2 races with the real fuel consumption. No issues with the car. I can still do a 10 laps Spa race without refueling.

senn
16-09-2015, 09:58
None of the cars in my game pull to the left, unless I edit the setup to make it do so. That is with keyboard or G25 wheel. Never had that issue.

hkraft300
16-09-2015, 10:12
Pink maybe you should like not drive so bloody quick :p

Pink_650S
16-09-2015, 10:45
http://youtu.be/zPX_l-xC6Do

senn
16-09-2015, 10:52
Not seeing the issue. You used 5.3L in one lap, on a track where you spend a lot of time on full throttle at high speed?

Pink_650S
16-09-2015, 11:01
Not seeing the issue. You used 5.3L in one lap, on a track where you spend a lot of time on full throttle at high speed?

So thats normal?
5.3 liters per 5.8 km?

Cheesenium
16-09-2015, 11:13
So thats normal?
5.3 liters per 5.8 km?

Based on what I wrote yesterday, I used around 5L per lap on Monza and 5.7L per lap on Spa that is slightly longer than Monza.

That is normal for a car with this kind of engine in racing pace.

senn
16-09-2015, 11:15
Do the maths on fuel usage yourself, it all checks out.

senn
16-09-2015, 11:19
For comparison, my current Daily car is a 6cyl turbo. Injector sizes are 380cc/min. 380x6=2280cc/min. So 2.28 litres per minute at 100% duty cycle making around 300hp. The Huarya makes more than double that....

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
16-09-2015, 14:57
So thats normal?
5.3 liters per 5.8 km?It's 3 MPG. As another example Top Gear reported the Ford GT doing 4 MPG on their track. In their economy supercar shootout, in the words of Jeremy Clarkson, "the winner, with an incredible 5 miles to the gallon, is the Audi R8". Driving on the limit really does get thirsty in super high performance cars like this.

EDIT: Heck, when I was trying to figure out what sort of mileages people get with their road cars on track days, there were a couple of Focus RS owners claiming 6-7 mpg, and even some Skoda RS diesel owners who were in single figures.

Pink_650S
17-09-2015, 06:29
Thanks guys.
Really didnt know these cars were that thirsty ;)

tosmah23
16-04-2016, 20:44
i m not sure i post at the right place, but do someone had teh same problem i have; on multi, the huayra's engine sound is not he same than in alone test; ther s no "waste gate" sound..??? i hope it will be fix in the future..

Umer Ahmad
16-04-2016, 23:23
Replay or in the race?

binarywarrior
16-04-2016, 23:54
same for me no car has waste gate sound in multiplayer, only single player! :(

It happened when the Caddy and Corvette were introduced, at least that's when I noticed it.