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wraithsrike
21-09-2015, 17:58
So I've just downloaded patch 4.0 and now I can't even complete a race in career because the game kicks me back to main loading screen, yes I've done the hard reset, seriously will this nightmare ever end?

OpticalHercules
21-09-2015, 18:07
If the game is entirely unplayable to you at this point, try the nuclear option and delete your local/cloud save file, uninstall game and DLC, then reinstall and start fresh. Yes it sucks to lose all that data and start over, but if the alternative is what you're experiencing now, I don't think you have much choice. At least you are able to go into the game right now, you have the time to start writing down/backing up whatever tunes you really care about and game config settings before you delete everything.

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 18:09
I remember you saying you have two xbox machines in your house. You have the problem in both? You seem to have a lot of game crashes, a lot more than everyone else. If it was me I would be concerned about the machine health.

wraithsrike
21-09-2015, 18:29
I remember you saying you have two xbox machines in your house. You have the problem in both? You seem to have a lot of game crashes, a lot more than everyone else. If it was me I would be concerned about the machine health.

So explain to me why this only happens with Pcars and no other game? Yes we have more than one Xbox and PCar's is ridden with various bugs on all of them.

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 18:41
So explain to me why this only happens with Pcars and no other game? Yes we have more than one Xbox and PCar's is ridden with various bugs on all of them.

To be honest man, i don't have to explain a single thing to you. The game has bugs, yes it has, a lot of them, but what you are describing is not a simple bug, it's the inability to play at all, and that is a big problem. I'm trying to help find your problem but you seem to be fed up with the game and not really interested in solve your problem and play. I can't blame you, if i was in a crap situation with a game like you are I'd be pissed at publishers, devs, retailers but I'd never be rude with fellow gamers that were trying to help me. We all know that project cars is a very cpu demanding game and it's complicated physics really torture the top notch pc cpus, let alone the consoles, so maybe your xbox is overheating due to cpu charge, maybe if you have an power stabilizer is feeding the unreliable amount of power to your xbox causing the cpu to be unstable (happened to a friend, and took months to him to isolate this problem). I really hope we, the community, can help you solve your problems and that you can play the game your seemed to like a lot again.

wraithsrike
21-09-2015, 18:43
Wasn't being rude, just asked a question.

OpticalHercules
21-09-2015, 18:44
So explain to me why this only happens with Pcars and no other game? Yes we have more than one Xbox and PCar's is ridden with various bugs on all of them.

It's not just PCars. Elder Scrolls Online did this to me every 3-4 minutes the first few times I rented the game from Redbox after it released. That's why I didn't buy the game until 5 or 6 weeks after release, when I was able to rent the game again form Redbox and actually start playing it.

The game works very well when the user's game data file is in good health. I keep repeating in forums (and will continue doing so until my reasoning is proven wrong by SMS) that the biggest problem is how the cloud save files are accessed by the game, why there are constant connections kept open to the cloud save file that result in corruption either minor or major. I'm positive that minor corruption causes a lot of crashing and odd behavior. Major corruption causes the game to not load or not hand off control to the player when exiting pits. The only fix to any of those problems is deleting the local and cloud save file. It's not a core game file problem, because the game runs 100% perfect after deleting a local/cloud save file without deleting/rinstalling the game itself.

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 18:56
It's not just PCars. Elder Scrolls Online did this to me every 3-4 minutes the first few times I rented the game from Redbox after it released. That's why I didn't buy the game until 5 or 6 weeks after release, when I was able to rent the game again form Redbox and actually start playing it.

The game works very well when the user's game data file is in good health. I keep repeating in forums (and will continue doing so until my reasoning is proven wrong by SMS) that the biggest problem is how the cloud save files are accessed by the game, why there are constant connections kept open to the cloud save file that result in corruption either minor or major. I'm positive that minor corruption causes a lot of crashing and odd behavior. Major corruption causes the game to not load or not hand off control to the player when exiting pits. The only fix to any of those problems is deleting the local and cloud save file. It's not a core game file problem, because the game runs 100% perfect after deleting a local/cloud save file without deleting/rinstalling the game itself.

I tend to agree with you on that cloud save thing. Let me explain why:

I never had any of the major bugs like people describe in the many threads. I had one or two dashboard crashes in the first two weeks, after the first patch it was gonne. Every patch was giving me a better experience, and it still does on 4.0. But, last night I came home, had my dinner and turned my xbox on to have a few career races, the xbox couldn't connect to the internet for the life of me. It didn't connected over cabble, wifi, smoke signals, flahslight signs, nothing. After half an hour it connected and I went to Project Cars to have my race fix. In an hour I had ALL, I repeat, ALL the bugs listed, numerous crashes to dash, frame drops, one car loading another car setup (all cars loading other cars setups actually)... I even messaged some friends asking if they were able to play. Then I gave up and watched a movie. When I went to my computer to check my emails I noticed that the connection was very slow and kind of breaking up every few minutes. Called the cable company, they gave my line a reset (whatever that means) and after reset my modem the connection was back at full 100mb speed. Went back to the xbox, started the game and voila, all good as usual.

Schnizz58
21-09-2015, 18:56
Optical, I asked (rhetorically) the other day why our stuff needs to be stored in the cloud in the first place. I'd guess the reason is so that you can use your saved profile on another Xbox. But I wonder how many of us actually do that. My gut tells me very few. If the issue is really cloud related, why couldn't we save our game data locally and then push to the cloud manually when we want to?

baz00ka
21-09-2015, 19:11
its also for backup purposes eg you xbox fails, you get another xbox, you back where you left off. people dont backup things manually, they know they have to but they just dont.


Optical, I asked (rhetorically) the other day why our stuff needs to be stored in the cloud in the first place. I'd guess the reason is so that you can use your saved profile on another Xbox. But I wonder how many of us actually do that. My gut tells me very few. If the issue is really cloud related, why couldn't we save our game data locally and then push to the cloud manually when we want to?

Schnizz58
21-09-2015, 19:12
its also for backup purposes eg you xbox fails, you get another xbox, you back where you left off. people dont backup things manually, they know they have to but they just dont.
What good is the cloud for backup if the backed up version is just as corrupted as your local one?

Bealdor
21-09-2015, 19:12
Optical, I asked (rhetorically) the other day why our stuff needs to be stored in the cloud in the first place. I'd guess the reason is so that you can use your saved profile on another Xbox. But I wonder how many of us actually do that. My gut tells me very few. If the issue is really cloud related, why couldn't we save our game data locally and then push to the cloud manually when we want to?

AFAIK that's not a decision for SMS to make. Using the cloud saving feature is mandatory on XB1 (That's why the replays are forcibly uploaded, causing the saving issue).

Schnizz58
21-09-2015, 19:14
AFAIK that's not a decision for SMS to make. Using the cloud saving feature is mandatory on XB1.
I was afraid it was something like that. Yay Microsoft!

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 19:15
AFAIK that's not a decision for SMS to make. Using the cloud saving feature is mandatory on XB1.

That's pretty clear. MS should , and maybe will, refine this system. A lot of games have problem with it. Battlefield 4 fails to sync cloud data at least one time per week and do not let you play until it's done

baz00ka
21-09-2015, 19:42
but if the local copy is corrupted or inaccessible the copy in the cloud can be used for restore which in fact is often the case with this game where local save gets corrupted bc of game bugs, you delete it then restore from cloud. this is just a simple albeit limited backup solution which is way better than nothing.


What good is the cloud for backup if the backed up version is just as corrupted as your local one?

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 19:45
but if the local copy is corrupted or inaccessible the copy in the cloud can be used for restore which in fact is often the case with this game where local save gets corrupted bc of game bugs, you delete it then restore from cloud. this is just a simple albeit limited backup solution which is way better than nothing.

But I do think that the save corruption is caused by a faillure in the cloud back-up process. Because I never had it, a lot of friends with stable connections never had it either. Some friends with very bad and unreliable connections had it more than once. I don't know whos fault is it but the things are clearly related.

Schnizz58
21-09-2015, 19:45
but if the local copy is corrupted or inaccessible the copy in the cloud can be used for restore which in fact is often the case with this game where local save gets corrupted bc of game bugs, you delete it then restore from cloud. this is just a simple albeit limited backup solution which is way better than nothing.
I've yet to see the saved version rescue a corrupted local version. It seems like it's much more likely the other way around. Every time I've had a problem both copies were corrupted.

OpticalHercules
21-09-2015, 19:48
AFAIK that's not a decision for SMS to make. Using the cloud saving feature is mandatory on XB1 (That's why the replays are forcibly uploaded, causing the saving issue).

Thanks for your input, Bealdor. I do appreciate you wading in here.

I can appreciate the position that SMS is in if Microsoft is forcing SMS to make the local file update to cloud as a backup system, however PCars seems to go a bit farther than that. It seems to that the game is relying on the cloud file for all save activity, then deferring to the local save when the cloud is inaccessible such as when in Offline Mode. When these problems happen, people are still able to play when forcing Offline Mode, telling us that the local save file is intact and functioning just fine. But once back in online mode, the game faults and crashes or doesnt load. There is the option to delete local save file and re-sync from the cloud, but you cannot delete the cloud file and have it re-sync form the xbox. If that existed (Xbox functionality, nothing to do with PCars), it would be a simple workaround when these corruption issues happen.


Optical, I asked (rhetorically) the other day why our stuff needs to be stored in the cloud in the first place. I'd guess the reason is so that you can use your saved profile on another Xbox. But I wonder how many of us actually do that. My gut tells me very few. If the issue is really cloud related, why couldn't we save our game data locally and then push to the cloud manually when we want to?

This is something I've been asking repeatedly over the last few weeks. Assuming the game does operate on the local file and use the cloud as the backup copy, why couldn't SMS implement either: A) a separate loading screen for when the files are being sync'd to alert players to take no action at all for any reason, or B) have the game prompt the player to sync the files. You could easily make the prompt not avoidable, so you couldn't put it off or work aorund it, you would HAVE to do it, but it woudn't start without you clicking the button to do so.

If the game really is operating with the cloud save file as primary data source and local as the backup, well, that's just absurd. Such a system completely defeats the purpose of the cloud "backup". Unless, as Bealdor suggests, the cloud save is not intended to be a backup, but rather the primary save source for all games, why on earth didn't MS implement an option to delete the cloud file without deleting the local file. I do have doubts that that is the case though, as not all games rely on MS's cloud for data. MMO online only games like Elder Scrolls, Neverwinter, & Destiny save all "game" data on the companies central server, with only the individual users game configuration settings saved in the local/cloud data file.

Ixoye56
21-09-2015, 19:48
Is it really necessary to reinstall everything, it is not enough to just uninstall the save file?

Schnizz58
21-09-2015, 19:53
Is it really necessary to reinstall everything, it is not enough to just uninstall the save file?
I would think so. If the game didn't install correctly it probably wouldn't work at all.

baz00ka
21-09-2015, 19:57
helped me once with this game. whats your point anyway ? my point is i'd rather to have this simple backup solution than nothing at all. if your local data gets corrupted and if the cloud has still has a clean copy it helps. if both copies are screwed its not worse than having local storage only option. also keep in mind this goes for everything else you might have on xbox like your profile data, other game saves etc so if you are advocating for local storage only and your hard drive fails you are back to square one on everything. if for whatever bizarre reason thats your preference its fine but i prefer to have at least a simple backup in place than nothing at all.


I've yet to see the saved version rescue a corrupted local version. It seems like it's much more likely the other way around. Every time I've had a problem both copies were corrupted.

Schnizz58
21-09-2015, 20:02
helped me once with this game. whats your point anyway ? my point is i'd rather to have this simple backup solution than nothing at all. if your local data gets corrupted and if the cloud has still has a clean copy it helps. if both copies are screwed its not worse than having local storage only option. also keep in mind this goes for everything else you might have on xbox like your profile data, other game saves etc so if you are advocating for local storage only and your hard drive fails you are back to square one on everything. if for whatever bizarre reason thats your preference its fine but i prefer to have at least a simple backup in place than nothing at all.
It's possibly worse than nothing if it's causing the database to become corrupted. Read Optical's post above. That's what my point is.

Plato99
21-09-2015, 20:02
Just been playing Manic Miner on ZX Spectrum emulator.
Life was so simple then. It never crashed once.

OpticalHercules
21-09-2015, 20:02
Is it really necessary to reinstall everything, it is not enough to just uninstall the save file?

No, it's not necessary at all to reinstall everything. At the same time, it doesn't hurt anything at all to uninstall the game and all DLC. Do so may or may not improve the game's performance after deleting local/cloud save files, but when the only impact on doing a complete reinstall is time, doesn't it make sense to do everything possible to improve all aspects of performance?

OpticalHercules
21-09-2015, 20:06
helped me once with this game. whats your point anyway ? my point is i'd rather to have this simple backup solution than nothing at all. if your local data gets corrupted and if the cloud has still has a clean copy it helps. ...

The problem here is that it is never the local files that get corrupted, only the online files. That is the root of this problem. Currently you can delete your local save files and download a "clean" copy from the cloud, but there is no way to delete only the cloud file and re-upload a "clean" copy from the xbox. There is also no way to externally back up the save files that are on your xbox, at least I haven't found one. I would LOVE to be able to set aside a pen drive and do weekly backups of my local save files. Microsoft assumes that the cloud backup is all you need, but when that is the file being corrupted, there is no way at all to recover/revert from any other known-good file.

Schnizz58
21-09-2015, 20:08
The problem here is that it is never the local files that get corrupted, only the online files. That is the root of this problem. Currently you can delete your local save files and download a "clean" copy from the cloud, but there is no way to delete only the cloud file and re-upload a "clean" copy from the xbox. There is also no way to externally back up the save files that are on your xbox, at least I haven't found one. I would LOVE to be able to set aside a pen drive and do weekly backups of my local save files. Microsoft assumes that the cloud backup is all you need, but when that is the file being corrupted, there is no way at all to recover/revert from any other known-good file.
Because it would never occur to them that their cloud might fail.

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 20:09
The problem here is that it is never the local files that get corrupted, only the online files. That is the root of this problem. Currently you can delete your local save files and download a "clean" copy from the cloud, but there is no way to delete only the cloud file and re-upload a "clean" copy from the xbox. There is also no way to externally back up the save files that are on your xbox, at least I haven't found one. I would LOVE to be able to set aside a pen drive and do weekly backups of my local save files. Microsoft assumes that the cloud backup is all you need, but when that is the file being corrupted, there is no way at all to recover/revert from any other known-good file.

The preview forums have at least a dozen threads asking for the export save feature. Maybe after Windows 10 we will have this option.

Ixoye56
21-09-2015, 20:15
I ended up using PC for gaming to avoid this endless tweaking, and now it has become the same shit with the Consoles.
I buy games to play, not to learn computer science :mad:

OpticalHercules
21-09-2015, 20:19
The preview forums have at least a dozen threads asking for the export save feature. Maybe after Windows 10 we will have this option.

Wasn't aware of those. I hadn't even tried to do a local hard-backup either. I know I can move data from one drive to another if I hook up a USB drive to the xbox, but I don't remember there being a copy function. I was also very hopeful to find such a function in the Windows 10 Xbox app, but that would probably open a huge can of worms with people being able to manipulate those files in ways Microsoft would never support.

I wonder if I could hook up an external drive, move files to it, then disconnect it and then hook it up to a PC to backup there, then reconnect to xbox and move the files back there. Heck of a lot of hassle if you intend to do that as a weekly backup kind of thing, but maybe doable. Only problem then is whether xbox formats the drive in such a way as to make it unusable to a PC. If a Windows OS couldn't read the file, I wonder if some Linux or Mac OS might be able to...

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 20:22
Wasn't aware of those. I hadn't even tried to do a local hard-backup either. I know I can move data from one drive to another if I hook up a USB drive to the xbox, but I don't remember there being a copy function. I was also very hopeful to find such a function in the Windows 10 Xbox app, but that would probably open a huge can of worms with people being able to manipulate those files in ways Microsoft would never support.

I wonder if I could hook up an external drive, move files to it, then disconnect it and then hook it up to a PC to backup there, then reconnect to xbox and move the files back there. Heck of a lot of hassle if you intend to do that as a weekly backup kind of thing, but maybe doable. Only problem then is whether xbox formats the drive in such a way as to make it unusable to a PC. If a Windows OS couldn't read the file, I wonder if some Linux or Mac OS might be able to...

Actually you can do a full drive back-up manually. A friend of mine changed his internal drive to a 2gb hybrid and did a manual back-up. I don't know how, but you can ask him (gamertag luisdurieux).

OpticalHercules
21-09-2015, 20:29
Actually you can do a full drive back-up manually. A friend of mine changed his internal drive to a 2gb hybrid and did a manual back-up. I don't know how, but you can ask him (gamertag luisdurieux).

Thanks for the pointer. I'll probably play around with it over the next few days just for my own amusement. I know this solution isn't something that the average gamer will even consider doing. People laughed and said I was taking it way too far or was a little too hardcore when I said I was writing down every tune I made in a 3-ring binder I purchased just for using with this game back in the first week or two of release. Sure I've lost my data 5 times now, but I still have that binder, it's still growing, and apart from time spent crawling my way through career progression, losing my data doesn't hurt me much at all.

Unless something is handed to them on a silver platter and pre-cut into bite size pieces, most people today really are hopeless and helpless when something doesn't function exactly as they expect it to. Maybe the next console design should incorporate a slap-pad on the side for the neanderthals to hit, and make it a standard direction in the troubleshooting process.

baz00ka
21-09-2015, 20:42
well, thats the game bug that needs fixing. the servers at MS has no way of knowing whether either their or your local copy is good data or garbage. so disabling the sync would simply be a bad band aid. the game bug/s causing this needs fixing as it is the game that corrupts its own saves not MS servers.


It's possibly worse than nothing if it's causing the database to become corrupted. Read Optical's post above. That's what my point is.

OpticalHercules
21-09-2015, 20:49
well, thats the game bug that needs fixing. the servers at MS has no way of knowing whether either their or your local copy is good data or garbage. so disabling the sync would simply be a bad band aid. the game bug/s causing this needs fixing as it is the game that corrupts its own saves not MS servers.

No, it's the game's communication with the cloud that is corrupting the cloud save files. Again, the local save files are perfectly fine. There's no way to know if the cloud is handling the communication bad, the game is acting in such a way that it's corrupting the data as it is transferred to the cloud. Maybe the game is only writing to the local file, but that local file is being pushed to the cloud while it's still being written by the game. I have no idea, and SMS has never told us one way or another. But so long as the game is forced to use the Cloud file as it's primary data source when you boot, if that cloud file is corrupted the game will crash. Since the system can go offline and load just fine on the local file, we know that is still good. But there is no way to force the cloud to delete the online file and backup with the proven-good local file. We can only go the other way, deleting local and restoring with the cloud file. That's a MS problem.

STEELJOCKEY
21-09-2015, 20:58
More than likely the way the cloud file is being corrupted is during the backup process, with a poor or interrupted internet connection causing the corruption. There should be some verification process between the cloud and the local copy to verify the backup process has not been corrupted during transfer. This would not be an SMS fault, M$ needs to look at this.

And since replays are being backed up too, this is probably compounding the issues with backup to the cloud, half the reason why save files are being corrupted is due to the size of the backup happening over the net connection. Maybe the backup to the cloud should not include the large replay files. Maybe this could be solved by SMS. I've taken to regularly deleting me replay save so there are not so many and have thus far avoided a corrupted save file.

baz00ka
21-09-2015, 20:58
thats simply not true. i had exact opposite situation. local save got corrupted. deleted it, synced from cloud, problem solved.

the real problem here is not the file or backup management. the real problem is the game bc 1) it corrupts its own saves in the first place and 2) does no proper validation and cannot detect a corrupted save before its too late and 3) has no recovery mechanism in place eg last known good save to fall back to or something like that.

the solution MS has is a simple solution for entire console which works if console hardware fails. i dont wanna setup and manage my console backups if i did i would have bought a PC instead. the option to choose which to keep like you said would have been nice but remember this is only a problem when a game corrupts its saves due to bugs and if that happens the chance both copies gets corrupted before you even notice is very high so even if it had this option or even if it had stored last N saves you chances of recovery would have been slightly better but it has to be addressed on game side first and foremost. if it was you wont be needing any of these options.


The problem here is that it is never the local files that get corrupted, only the online files. That is the root of this problem. Currently you can delete your local save files and download a "clean" copy from the cloud, but there is no way to delete only the cloud file and re-upload a "clean" copy from the xbox. There is also no way to externally back up the save files that are on your xbox, at least I haven't found one. I would LOVE to be able to set aside a pen drive and do weekly backups of my local save files. Microsoft assumes that the cloud backup is all you need, but when that is the file being corrupted, there is no way at all to recover/revert from any other known-good file.

Flat_out
21-09-2015, 21:20
Could this be the culprit!!
http://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-live-status

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 21:21
Could this be the culprit!!
http://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-live-status

Yes it is some days, for some people is just bad connection.

Roger Prynne
21-09-2015, 21:40
Are replays automatically saved on XBox or do you have the option to save or not? like on the PC.

TheReaper GT
21-09-2015, 21:49
Are replays automatically saved on XBox or do you have the option to save or not? like on the PC.

You have to click the save replay button

STEELJOCKEY
21-09-2015, 22:01
But once you save the replay it is then backed up to the cloud.

Schnizz58
22-09-2015, 05:06
But once you save the replay it is then backed up to the cloud.
Surely even Microsoft can see why this is a bad idea.

TenthDan
22-09-2015, 05:21
It hints to me that MS need to provide some kind of overlay indicator of your connection status and strength.

It would be far easier for people to distinguish issues caused by local game vs connection if they could quickly see how the connection is at any time (even a history log that appears when pressing the home button).

It's also sucky really that devs have to configure their games to work online, I've no doubt it creates many headaches trying to keep data synched in real time with poor and intermittent connections of widely varying degrees!

Wraithstrike, is there a way you can test your connection while playing and see if it crashes correlate with connection changes?

I.e. Ping or network monitor (in task manager) from a PC?

Pbucko
22-09-2015, 06:51
This is a wild stab in the dark. Have people who keep losing game saves got Xbox on energy save mode as advised by sms. Your Xbox could be communicating with cloud you turn Xbox off that's it connection lost. All ways on mode turn off Xbox still communicating.

Pbucko
22-09-2015, 07:02
Oh I forgot to say that very few games have suffered from this corrupt game save and the ones that did had it sorted out in the first few weeks and patched. If I was a betting man I'd put my money on it being a project cars bug like all the other ones they can't seem to mend.

Plato99
22-09-2015, 07:09
Tell that to Codemasters. They've had a save corruption bug since about 1967 and still release every game with it.......

Pbucko
22-09-2015, 07:34
Yeah your right there I'd forgot about there games. Have not bought the last 2. Not trying to derail the thread but did anybody have trouble sending game invites last night to private races. We had all soughts of trouble last night with game invites not being received, and you can't join through party now. 2 players could not recieve invites then one player who was in lobby dropped out, and straight away the other 2 could recieve invites and straight in. Could be Xbox live or could be new patch, don't know until we try again tonight. We have been on forza all week, after going back on p cars last night, it's so much better the car handling system is quality. I just wish they could iron out all these annoying bugs.

Flat_out
22-09-2015, 08:02
Xbox live was experiencing problems last night!

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 08:11
It's not just PCars. Elder Scrolls Online did this to me every 3-4 minutes the first few times I rented the game from Redbox after it released. That's why I didn't buy the game until 5 or 6 weeks after release, when I was able to rent the game again form Redbox and actually start playing it.

The game works very well when the user's game data file is in good health. I keep repeating in forums (and will continue doing so until my reasoning is proven wrong by SMS) that the biggest problem is how the cloud save files are accessed by the game, why there are constant connections kept open to the cloud save file that result in corruption either minor or major. I'm positive that minor corruption causes a lot of crashing and odd behavior. Major corruption causes the game to not load or not hand off control to the player when exiting pits. The only fix to any of those problems is deleting the local and cloud save file. It's not a core game file problem, because the game runs 100% perfect after deleting a local/cloud save file without deleting/rinstalling the game itself.

This is only happening when I try to play career mode as soon as I pull out of the pits the game kicks me to the game loading screen? Solo is playable although my Car's aren't showing just blank squares where the car pics should be?

I've tried un installation and fresh install this has made no difference, I don't know how to delete a cloud save only local saves.

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 08:41
Just deleted my in-game save and started again and all seems to be playable with career now, gutted I've lost my game save, going to give the game a rest now lost interest if I'm honest.

But thanks for the help guys appreciated.

creepy coupe
22-09-2015, 09:12
Sorry to say it, but people can defend PCARS as much as they like. But in 20 years I've never had a game as rubbish as this for bugs.

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 09:47
Sorry to say it, but people can defend PCARS as much as they like. But in 20 years I've never had a game as rubbish as this for bugs.

Your right mate, it has got some problems that should of been long fixed by now but that far from makes it a bad game. I brought F6 on Friday and sold it the following day, I was praying it would give me a welcome break from PC but all it did is prove to me just what this game is, it really is by far the best racing game I have ever played, its the only game I ever play and has been since launch, but that is as far as my praise goes atm. I am a league racer, I have spent nearly a grand on my wheel set up and all I need now is the game that it should be on line and be able to talk to my friends while I race, give me that and I would defend this game to the death!.

creepy coupe
22-09-2015, 09:52
Y. I am a league racer, I have spent nearly a grand on my wheel set up and all I need now is the game that it should be on line and be able to talk to my friends while I race, give me that and I would defend this game to the death!.

The games an oxymoron. It's rated by some as "the best racier by far" But it's unplayable to a large extent.I'm more annoyed that developers unload this rushed unfinished stuff on to us and want £50 for the privilege.

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 09:55
I'm more annoyed that developers unload this rushed unfinished stuff on to us and want £50 for the privilege.


And lets not talk about how many times it was put back because this game was going to come out perfect

RacerPaul65
22-09-2015, 09:57
I brought F6 on Friday and sold it the following day...
Wow, speedy decision. How did you come to your conclusion so quickly?

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 10:03
Wow, speedy decision. How did you come to your conclusion so quickly?

It was to easy, and the handling was rubbish IMO

creepy coupe
22-09-2015, 10:07
And lets not talk about how many times it was put back because this game was going to come out perfect

I've got to be honest. I hadn't heard of PCARS until very nearly launch time. So I wasn't among those of you that were disappointed. I'm just disappointed now.

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 10:08
Trouble is I like PCar's, but ever time I play it it's issue after issue it gets so frustrating and now I lost my game save I've lost heart maybe in a few months I'll think different.

creepy coupe
22-09-2015, 10:10
Trouble is I like PCar's, but ever time I play it it's issue after issue it gets so frustrating and now I lost my game save I've lost heart maybe in a few months I'll think different.

That's what killed the enjoyment for me. Hours of career building wiped out.

OppaErich
22-09-2015, 11:07
Seriously - what do you lose ? Prefered car and country, play time and mileage and, OK, career progress - not really important.

creepy coupe
22-09-2015, 11:42
Seriously - what do you lose ? Prefered car and country, play time and mileage and, OK, career progress - not really important.

"Not really important" What a stupid comment.

Raven403
22-09-2015, 12:00
Seriously - what do you lose ? Prefered car and country, play time and mileage and, OK, career progress - not really important.

To YOU maybe

Akra
22-09-2015, 12:01
I'm 4 or 5 seasons into my career. I have to wipe it because SMS can't make games that work? How can that be considered not important?

Raven403
22-09-2015, 12:03
I'm 4 or 5 seasons into my career. I have to wipe it because SMS can't make games that work? How can that be considered not important?

Brave, I stopped trying to do a career a long time ago after losing it twice already. Wont try again.

Akra
22-09-2015, 12:08
I just binned attempt 3. Maybe 4 if you count when I tried to start from karts whilst we had control sensitivity bugs. Managed 2 races before binning that one.

Attempt 5 will happen when they fix the career stats and setup saving bugs.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 12:15
I brought F6 on Friday and sold it the following day

I really hate to say this but...... LOL

After playing Project CARS, I already knew that in my eyes as well. Forza Motorsport is a lost cause to me & I'm just not interested in it no more. In my case, that franchise ended with with FM5.

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 12:22
It was to easy, and the handling was rubbish IMO

Come on, really?

a) some cars in the real world just do handle badly, did you try all 450 odd cars? And can you compare them to your real life experience of driving all this cars?

b) If a car in real life handles badly you can buy new upgrades for them.... so did you try that?

c) Too easy? Rather than spend £40 on a new game then one day later trade it in for most likely £20? £30? i'd of thought "hey this game has BTCC cars in it, could i get my £40 worth by just playing with those cars? My answer is a big 'yes'.... alternatively i'd of checked online first to see if i'd even like that type of game.....

d) i don't really think you purchased Forza 6 and next day traded it in...no disrespect but who does that? What are reviews, forums etc etc for if not to get a balance picture before purchase...

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 12:25
I really hate to say this but...... LOL

After playing Project CARS, I already knew that in my eyes as well. Forza Motorsport is a lost cause to me & I'm just not interested in it no more. In my case, that franchise ended with with FM5.

Your a Project Cars 2 gold member right?

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 12:26
i don't really think you purchased Forza 6 and next day traded it in...no disrespect but who does that?

Don't assume anything, you'll be wrong. Back in the day, I kept Gears of War 1 for 2 days on Xbox 360 & traded it in. I had become a fan of FPS. Just couldn't get into 3rd person shooters anymore.

That's what happened to him with FM6 it looks like. He realized the handling model in FM6 just didn't cut the mustard no more in his eyes. Especially after playing Project CARS, in his eyes.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 12:28
Your a Project Cars 2 gold member right?

Yeah..... and?

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 12:53
Come on, really?

a) some cars in the real world just do handle badly, did you try all 450 odd cars? And can you compare them to your real life experience of driving all this cars?

b) If a car in real life handles badly you can buy new upgrades for them.... so did you try that?

c) Too easy? Rather than spend £40 on a new game then one day later trade it in for most likely £20? £30? i'd of thought "hey this game has BTCC cars in it, could i get my £40 worth by just playing with those cars? My answer is a big 'yes'.... alternatively i'd of checked online first to see if i'd even like that type of game.....

d) i don't really think you purchased Forza 6 and next day traded it in...no disrespect but who does that? What are reviews, forums etc etc for if not to get a balance picture before purchase...

A) No, I didn't try all the cars in the game, I had my fill of the career cars that we're chucked at me.

B) Yes I did up grade and tune

C) Yes, far too easy. Like F5 I only used the E21 for fast laps, this game would of never been any different. I got the E23, tuned it and it was no different to F5. I paid £42 for it on the Friday and sold it for £35 on the sat, £7 is really no big deal

D) Dont ever judge me dude, you know nothing about me or what I'm about, the only lie I ever tell is if my wife asks if her arse looks big in her jeans

E) Now would you like to know what color my boxers are?

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq209/KMAwOoDsTeR16/www_zpspcs729mo.png (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/KMAwOoDsTeR16/media/www_zpspcs729mo.png.html)


Also a video for you

https://youtu.be/6Yi8eVN_LXE

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 12:53
Note the yellow name matches the GT in my sig ;)

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 12:54
I really hate to say this but...... LOL

After playing Project CARS, I already knew that in my eyes as well. Forza Motorsport is a lost cause to me & I'm just not interested in it no more. In my case, that franchise ended with with FM5.

Hey it was worth a try herbster, on line is killing me in this game atm, I needed a break lol

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 13:01
Hey it was worth a try herbster, on line is killing me in this game atm, I needed a break lol

LOL

CE 300
22-09-2015, 13:04
From time to time you have to get the dust out of your Xbox One vent. The open spaces get full of it and cause the good old box to get hot. Maybe that's why your game always gets you back to desktop. Yes, Project Cars is full of bugs, but it's still a real nice simulation. Seems we have to wait a bit longer for the game to get better.

You could try Forza in the meantime and get back to PCars in a couple of months. If you only like to complain about Forza you could also help some refugees in the meantime. They need some water and I'm sure they would like to play some Project CARS. People tend to enjoy the numerous bugs if the simulation is good when they come out of a war country.

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 13:08
A) No, I didn't try all the cars in the game, I had my fill of the career cars that we're chucked at me.

B) Yes I did up grade and tune

C) Yes, far too easy. Like F5 I only used the E21 for fast laps, this game would of never been any different. I got the E23, tuned it and it was no different to F5. I paid £42 for it on the Friday and sold it for £35 on the sat, £7 is really no big deal

D) Dont ever judge me dude, you know nothing about me or what I'm about, the only lie I ever tell is if my wife asks if her arse looks big in her jeans

E) Now would you like to know what color my boxers are?

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq209/KMAwOoDsTeR16/www_zpspcs729mo.png (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/KMAwOoDsTeR16/media/www_zpspcs729mo.png.html)


Also a video for you

https://youtu.be/6Yi8eVN_LXE


Being a 15 year old girl i really don't want to know the colour of your boxers.... OMG...

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 13:10
Being a 15 year old girl i really don't want to know the colour of your boxers.... OMG...

Oh your 15, say no more, all is forgiven

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 13:10
Yeah..... and?

Well it makes you biased... and any one of your posts proves that.
It's perfectly OK to like Project Cars, i love it, but i'd not do down another developers hard work and slag it off just so you can get brownie points from the SMS establisment. If you dont like Forza then fine, what do you care if other people do like it?

Sankyo
22-09-2015, 13:22
Being a 15 year old girl i really don't want to know the colour of your boxers.... OMG...
Yeah, and I'm a 120-year-old great-grandmother who bench presses 300 kg each day...

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 13:35
Yeah, and I'm a 120-year-old great-grandmother who bench presses 300 kg each day...

Nice one mate, I have one of them visions in my head you can't get rid of now lol.

Raven403
22-09-2015, 13:36
Yeah, and I'm a 120-year-old great-grandmother who bench presses 300 kg each day...

What the hell is a Kilogram

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 13:41
Well it makes you biased... and any one of your posts proves that.
It's perfectly OK to like Project Cars, i love it, but i'd not do down another developers hard work and slag it off just so you can get brownie points from the SMS establisment. If you dont like Forza then fine, what do you care if other people do like it?

False. I own FM1 through FM5.
218721
I guess it's fair to say I started playing Forza Motorsport when you were 5 yrs old. Franchise is just heading in a direction I'm not interested in any more. Forza Motorsport has been getting more & more causal, starting with FM3. Don't assume anything, young lady.

Brownie points? I can careless about that.

Paul Swanepoel
22-09-2015, 13:41
Yeah, and I'm a 120-year-old great-grandmother who bench presses 300 kg each day...

Swole!

Raptor72auVF
22-09-2015, 13:43
Just an idea, I delete any games I'm not playing or have traded in. I admit I don't the full ins and outs of your issuses but with any type of computer I've learnt you never know sometime they develop attitudes.

CE 300
22-09-2015, 13:53
What the hell is a Kilogram

It's this more precise measurement unit for weight that the whole world tends to use, besides some gun loving, health insurance hating, very slow speed limit having people, whose country's name I forgot. Maybe because it's not important.

Nelson Pacheco
22-09-2015, 14:02
It's this more precise measurement unit for weight that the whole world tends to use, besides some gun loving, health insurance hating, very slow speed limit having people, whose country's name I forgot. Maybe because it's not important.

ahhahah Nice one ahahha but isnt raven trolling?

Raven403
22-09-2015, 14:04
ahhahah Nice one ahahha but isnt raven trolling?

I was. But it's nice to see stereotypes still exist

OverHaased
22-09-2015, 14:49
Well 4 loaded just fine, and that was all she wrote.

Took 6 full uninstalls, and several hard starts to get it to make it to the games dashboard. Once there I went to the lobbies and at 8 PM PST there were exactly 2 lobbies open and 4 people on line, refreshed and 2 more showed up, refreshed again and it was down to 2 of us, final refresh and all games gone and it lasted like this for 30 minutes. I started my oen race (GT3 @Brands hatch) and after a 15 minute qualifier I was still alone....


Looks like the world is giving up on this title.

I did see about 15 players on line from my friends lists that were all playing F6 (all of them are members here, in fact it is where I met all of them)

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 14:55
Well i wish i could explain this one. My FFB settings only save down to Hokenheim (sic) after that default settings... whats with that?? cant even manually overide it either..

Then after patch 4.0 in solo races, Qualify position in the actually race....IS RANDOMISED.... Why?

As great as parts of this game are can the few staunch loyalists not see this is getting stupid??

CE 300
22-09-2015, 14:55
I was. But it's nice to see stereotypes still exist

I know, but I didn't mean it that way. Just a bit trashtalkin. But you can't tell me slow speed limits are just a stereotype :p

Sankyo
22-09-2015, 14:56
Then after patch 4.0 in solo races, Qualify position in the actually race....IS RANDOMISED.... Why?

It's a known issue.

Raven403
22-09-2015, 14:59
I know, but I didn't mean it that way. Just a bit trashtalkin. But you can't tell me slow speed limits are just a stereotype :p

Don't gotta tell me. No one here knows how to freaking drive. 50mph in the passing lane all day. I need the War Rig from Mad Max I think, just plow through.

It's sad really, driving isn't taken seriously by the vast majority in the US. it's a joke. And they wonder why so many people die on the roads every year, and think it's the speed limits that matter. Laughable

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 15:04
It's sad really, driving isn't taken seriously by the vast majority in the US. it's a joke. And they wonder why so many people die on the roads every year, and think it's the speed limits that matter. Laughable

I agree with you on this. They don't pay attention (distracted), among other things.

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 15:34
False. I own FM1 through FM5.
218721
I guess it's fair to say I started playing Forza Motorsport when you were 5 yrs old. Franchise is just heading in a direction I'm not interested in any more. Forza Motorsport has been getting more & more causal, starting with FM3. Don't assume anything, young lady.

Brownie points? I can careless about that.

I've lost count of how many times I've seen that same picture circulated around gaming forums to prove a point lol

OpticalHercules
22-09-2015, 15:52
It hints to me that MS need to provide some kind of overlay indicator of your connection status and strength.

It would be far easier for people to distinguish issues caused by local game vs connection if they could quickly see how the connection is at any time (even a history log that appears when pressing the home button).

It's also sucky really that devs have to configure their games to work online, I've no doubt it creates many headaches trying to keep data synched in real time with poor and intermittent connections of widely varying degrees!

Wraithstrike, is there a way you can test your connection while playing and see if it crashes correlate with connection changes?

I.e. Ping or network monitor (in task manager) from a PC?

I know I'm replying a bit late to your post, but I do appreciate your interest in this thread.

I would be willing to provide as much data on my connection as you can point me to how to obtain in a readable format for you. As I said in previous posts, I've had game save loss and data corruption 5 times now, and if you look at the dates on my thread detailing every instance this has happened, it is almost every 20 days on the dot. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32856-Game-not-loading-unplayable

I am extremely skeptical of my connection being culprit here. When I first moved into the house I'm in now 4+ years ago, I had no end to net problems. after 18+ months of calling comcast back out to basically rewire everything on my property including a new line underground from the house-side access to the street distribution block, that still did not fix the problem. The problem was finally resolved when a drunk driver went through the neighborhood too fast and demolished the distribution block forcing comcast to install all new hardware and most of the line from the main avenue lines. This also fixed connection issues for several neighbors who refused to use comcast before I moved in but have since all switched back to them as the only other fast net alternative in my area (U-Verse fiber) is not available in my subdivision yet.

For the past two years I have hosted all kinds of games over xbox and pc with no problem at all. My connections were often used as a baseline comparison for other friends who were having issues. Doing traceroutes and pings to various servers I have 0 dropped packets/packet loss. My net is around 170/12mbps down/up, ~22ms ping to the L3 hub nearest me in San Jose, CA. Again, explain exactly what information you would like me to provide, and I will do my best to provide it in whatever format you request. I think with my data being lost as many times as it has I would be a fine candidate to test whatever connection issues you may think are causing this.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 16:50
I've lost count of how many times I've seen that same picture circulated around gaming forums to prove a point lol

Shouldn't you be playing FM6 instead of being here ;)

OverHaased
22-09-2015, 16:57
Shouldn't you be playing FM6 instead of being here ;)

Shouldn't you be masturbating to an Ian Bell video?

This is a poke at Nissan and not at Ian Bell, he has no control of his fanboy infatuations.

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 17:11
Shouldn't you be masturbating to an Ian Bell video?

This is a poke at Nissan and not at Ian Bell, he has no control of his fanboy infatuations.

Awesome post!

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 17:13
Shouldn't you be masturbating to an Ian Bell video?

This is a poke at Nissan and not at Ian Bell, he has no control of his fanboy infatuations.

You've got to try harder than that. Be original & don't rely on old material. Pretend you're on FM, hit the rewind button.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 17:14
Awesome post!

Oh yeah, you're 15 & would find that funny. He's relying on adolescent comedy.

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 17:15
Awesome post!

Your only 14, you freak out over the color of a mans boxers yet condone posts like that?.... What was it you said? OMG lol

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 17:16
Your only 14, you freak out over the color of a mans boxers yet condone posts like that?.... What was it you said? OMG lol

LOL

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 17:17
I can't believe they released a game where there's an option to set all FFB settings to all tracks, but when you do it only can set to half of them and gives you a corrupted save file along with it..

Can someone tell me how to reset all the FFB settings to default so i can sort out FFB via global settings instead of in the tuning section?

I also cant believe you have stickies Jack Spades FFB settings knowing full well the game cant cope with saving them.... i have a few cars with saved set ups for FFB and the rest i cant save, its a mess, utter mess.

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 17:18
Your only 14, you freak out over the color of a mans boxers yet condone posts like that?.... What was it you said? OMG lol

Funny is funny.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 17:19
I can't believe they released a game where there's an option to set all FFB settings to all tracks, but when you do it only can set to half of them and gives you a corrupted save file along with it..

Can someone tell me how to reset all the FFB settings to default so i can sort out FFB via global settings instead of in the tuning section?

I also cant believe you have stickies Jack Spades FFB settings knowing full well the game cant cope with saving them.... i have a few cars with saved set ups for FFB and the rest i cant save, its a mess, utter mess.

Why save FFB settings to all tracks, for all cars? Do you think you really will drive every car at every single layout? You plan on rocking the Renault Megan at every single circuit layout? When I did try putting FFB for every car, everywhere in the past. My tunes wouldn't save correctly eventually.

I no longer do that, because I know I won't drive every car. If anything, definitely not drive all the cars at every layout. So far, all tunes saving correctly for about 1 month & over 158 hrs of game play. I don't save tunes at all in "My Garage". I do it in the pit box of career, free practice and quick race weekends.

beetes_juice
22-09-2015, 17:25
I can't believe they released a game where there's an option to set all FFB settings to all tracks, but when you do it only can set to half of them and gives you a corrupted save file along with it..

Can someone tell me how to reset all the FFB settings to default so i can sort out FFB via global settings instead of in the tuning section?

I also cant believe you have stickies Jack Spades FFB settings knowing full well the game cant cope with saving them.... i have a few cars with saved set ups for FFB and the rest i cant save, its a mess, utter mess.

Its nice to have Spades setting's at the top. :cool:

What cars can't you save FFB on?

wOoDsTeR16
22-09-2015, 17:29
http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/cars

I have to say the FFB settings on that site are pretty spot on.

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 17:34
Shouldn't you be playing FM6 instead of being here ;)

Grow up fella.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 17:35
Grow up fella.

From the comment I made in response to yours?

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 17:38
Why save FFB settings to all tracks, for all cars? Do you think you really will drive every car at every single layout? You plan on rocking the Renault Megan at every single circuit layout? When I did try putting FFB for every car, everywhere in the past. My tunes wouldn't save correctly eventually.

I no longer do that, because I know I won't drive every car. If anything, definitely not drive all the cars at every layout. So far, all tunes saving correctly for about 1 month & over 158 hrs of game play. I don't save tunes at all in "My Garage". I do it in the pit box of career, free practice and quick race weekends.

Great, but that's a work around, i'm saying why did they release the game and after 4 patches still have the option to save settings to all tracks if the game can't cope with that?

Your work around is "don't drive all the cars in the game"... thats just nuts. And again i'm new to the TX wheel and everything on here pointed towards jack spades settings which are awesome, but bless him the game can't cope with saving them, i only did 3 cars and it cant cope with that!

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 17:39
http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/cars

I have to say the FFB settings on that site are pretty spot on.

They are, but you can't save them in the game, it works on half the tracks and the rest nothing.

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 17:41
I know I'm replying a bit late to your post, but I do appreciate your interest in this thread.

I would be willing to provide as much data on my connection as you can point me to how to obtain in a readable format for you. As I said in previous posts, I've had game save loss and data corruption 5 times now, and if you look at the dates on my thread detailing every instance this has happened, it is almost every 20 days on the dot. http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?32856-Game-not-loading-unplayable

I am extremely skeptical of my connection being culprit here. When I first moved into the house I'm in now 4+ years ago, I had no end to net problems. after 18+ months of calling comcast back out to basically rewire everything on my property including a new line underground from the house-side access to the street distribution block, that still did not fix the problem. The problem was finally resolved when a drunk driver went through the neighborhood too fast and demolished the distribution block forcing comcast to install all new hardware and most of the line from the main avenue lines. This also fixed connection issues for several neighbors who refused to use comcast before I moved in but have since all switched back to them as the only other fast net alternative in my area (U-Verse fiber) is not available in my subdivision yet.

For the past two years I have hosted all kinds of games over xbox and pc with no problem at all. My connections were often used as a baseline comparison for other friends who were having issues. Doing traceroutes and pings to various servers I have 0 dropped packets/packet loss. My net is around 170/12mbps down/up, ~22ms ping to the L3 hub nearest me in San Jose, CA. Again, explain exactly what information you would like me to provide, and I will do my best to provide it in whatever format you request. I think with my data being lost as many times as it has I would be a fine candidate to test whatever connection issues you may think are causing this.

I've completely reset my game now, deleted both my cloud and local save done a fresh install and been playing for the last two hours both online and career with zero issues, can't believe how well the game is playing, no disconnections no crashing no frame drops still got blind AI but otherwise it's a 100% improvement.

Wish I had done this week's ago, my only hope is I don't have to this ever time a patch is released.

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 17:44
From the comment I made in response to yours?

I don't know who you are neither do I care to, but you seriously need to read some of your posts back, you clearly have no idea of the way your portraying yourself.

I'll reply to you no more.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 17:48
Great, but that's a work around, i'm saying why did they release the game and after 4 patches still have the option to save settings to all tracks if the game can't cope with that?

Your work around is "don't drive all the cars in the game"... thats just nuts. And again i'm new to the TX wheel and everything on here pointed towards jack spades settings which are awesome, but bless him the game can't cope with saving them, i only did 3 cars and it cant cope with that!

I'm not saying don't drive all cars. All I'm saying is when you really think about it. Do you truly believe you will drive every car at every single circuit layout? If you know you honestly won't. Don't bother trying to save FFB for all cars at all circuit layouts.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 17:48
I don't know who you are neither do I care to, but you seriously need to read some of your posts back, you clearly have no idea of the way your portraying yourself.

I'll reply to you no more.

The exact same can be said about you, as well.

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 18:04
I'm not saying don't drive all cars. All I'm saying is when you really think about it. Do you truly believe you will drive every car at every single circuit layout? If you know you honestly won't. Don't bother trying to save FFB for all cars at all circuit layouts.

That's fine, i get it, but my point is nowhere on the back of the 'box' does it say that or in game. What it does say in game is that you CAN save to ALL..
Its fin i'll stick with default FFB and just ignore all the stuff around that says i'm missing out on Jack Spades hard work due to this save 'bug'.

OverHaased
22-09-2015, 18:05
You've got to try harder than that. Be original & don't rely on old material. Pretend you're on FM, hit the rewind button.

You are adorable, such a cute little fan boy.

Could you direct me to the rewind button? I can't seem to find it on my keyboard.

While we are having this chat, I wonder if you could possibly explain how you have not experienced a single crash to dashboard, nor a disconnect from server during a Multiplayer match? That you have not had your game freeze, etc etc etc...

Really It would be fantastic if you could explain this.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 18:10
You are adorable, such a cute little boy

You really got to come up with some better material.

beetes_juice
22-09-2015, 18:18
That's fine, i get it, but my point is nowhere on the back of the 'box' does it say that or in game. What it does say in game is that you CAN save to ALL..
Its fin i'll stick with default FFB and just ignore all the stuff around that says i'm missing out on Jack Spades hard work due to this save 'bug'.

They shouldn't because not everyone is hampered by this bug. I can save all track tunes.

Anyway, TBH you are making this way harder for yourself and missing out.

1) Pick car/track
2) Enter pits
3) Setup JS FFB
4) Tune
5) Drive

You now have one tune setup for the car. Now you can either, A) Enter tuning, load the tune you just made, and save it over to the next track your racing. B) Start with a fresh tune on the next track and enter in FFB again.

I go with A.

Side note: Think the tune bug hits when you reach 30-35 tunes on a car.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 18:23
Side note: Think the tune bug hits when you reach 30-35 tunes on a car.

I kinda think the same. That's why this go around. I didn't bother trying to save FFB for every car at every track layout. Especially when I know good & well, I won't drive every car at every track layout.

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 18:27
I'm just pleased my game is working it's been a long time since I've been able to enjoy it as it was intended.

Thanks to those that gave the suggestions. Appreciate it guys.

beetes_juice
22-09-2015, 18:27
I kinda think the same. That's why this go around. I didn't bother trying to save FFB for every car at every track layout. Especially when I know good & well, I won't drive every car at every track layout.

Yeah I was doing the save all when I first got my wheel a few months back; time as taught me its better to be specific when tuning/FFB. I'm still able to do save all's and they do stick to every track I just don't anymore.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 18:34
Yeah I was doing the save all when I first got my wheel a few months back; time as taught me its better to be specific when tuning/FFB. I'm still able to do save all's and they do stick to every track I just don't anymore.

Yeah I agree 100%.

foxy2020
22-09-2015, 18:50
I'm just pleased my game is working it's been a long time since I've been able to enjoy it as it was intended.

Thanks to those that gave the suggestions. Appreciate it guys.

how do i delete game save from cloud and from the game? cheers in advance.

nissan4ever
22-09-2015, 18:53
how do i delete game save from cloud and from the game? cheers in advance.

Go to My Games and Apps on Xbox One dashboard. Go to your games. Scroll over to Project CARS. Hit what be start button (3 straight lines on Xbox One controller). Select manage game. Scroll over right to your profile game save. Press start button (3 straight lines on Xbox One). Select delete. You'll be prompted about deleting local or everywhere.

TheReaper GT
22-09-2015, 18:57
how do i delete game save from cloud and from the game? cheers in advance.

Highlight project cars, press menu, select manage, look to the right side of the screen, select the save data and press a, it will prompt you with the option to delete the local file or both.

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 19:02
Highlight project cars, press menu, select manage, look to the right side of the screen, select the save data and press a, it will prompt you with the option to delete the local file or both.

This ^

Sankyo
22-09-2015, 19:31
I'm just pleased my game is working it's been a long time since I've been able to enjoy it as it was intended.

Thanks to those that gave the suggestions. Appreciate it guys.
Can you keep us updated on any performance changes over time, and possibly relate them to (cloud) storage space, number of things stored in the cloud, internet connection stability etc.?

beetes_juice
22-09-2015, 19:34
Can you keep us updated on any performance changes over time, and possibly relate them to (cloud) storage space, number of things stored in the cloud, internet connection stability etc.?

You guys should really poke opticalhurcules for feedback relating to cloud saves and PC.

Sankyo
22-09-2015, 19:34
What the hell is a Kilogram
It's what you get when you weigh a kilobyte :)

TheReaper GT
22-09-2015, 19:37
It's what you get when you weigh a kilobyte :)

Ouch :p

wraithsrike
22-09-2015, 19:52
Can you keep us updated on any performance changes over time, and possibly relate them to (cloud) storage space, number of things stored in the cloud, internet connection stability etc.?

Could you Explain in layman teams, sorry but I'm not really computer literate.

How would I check how much cloud storage I've used? Or what I've got stored in it ? my Internet is 100 meg ethernet connected.

OpticalHercules
22-09-2015, 21:40
I've completely reset my game now, deleted both my cloud and local save done a fresh install and been playing for the last two hours both online and career with zero issues, can't believe how well the game is playing, no disconnections no crashing no frame drops still got blind AI but otherwise it's a 100% improvement.

Wish I had done this week's ago, my only hope is I don't have to this ever time a patch is released.

I'm glad it's working better for you. It sucks massively that people have to take the steps I suggested to get the gameplay you're now enjoying.

The fact remains that as the game is played more and more, little things keep getting progressively worse within the game save file. These things include minor graphical glitches, maybe some sound glitches, longer loading times, then in-session tune saving problems, then global tune saving problems, funny game loads, until you reach the point where you either can't take control of the car at all as you exit pits, a game session won't load, the game will dashboard on session load, or the game itself will hang on sign-in. ALL of these issues are ALL fixed with a save file delete and fresh start.

There's no reason for it to be that way.

The hard part is just figuring out exactly why it is happening, and then how to work around it. I can see the developers so badly wanting this to be a client-side net connection issue. I don't blame them for hoping this is what it is. The fact that these issues do not happen to everyone does point that way. But when you have so many players on so many different ISP and in-home network configurations, all over the globe having the same disjointed problems, there's got to be something more to it. Even if it really is a client-side connection problem, shouldn't there be some way to work around that problem, and why exactly is the connection issue causing this? If this is caused by connection problems where a persistent connection is required, why is the persistent connection required to what should be a backup file? Even if MS demands that the cloud file mirror the local file, how is it that local files aren't being corrupted but cloud files are AND players are unable to play when xbox is in online mode but able to when in offline mode.

Even if MS is demanding that these connections be kept open, isn't there some way for a developer to petition MS to alter some aspect of their use contract to improve the playability/useablility of their system? These aren't problems experienced by Playstation or Steam customers. If the players are determined to continue playing this game and these issues only happen on xbox, doesn't this hurt Xbox's image to those players? That is definitely something that MS has an interest in and should be willing to work around problems caused by whatever their requirements are.


Can you keep us updated on any performance changes over time, and possibly relate them to (cloud) storage space, number of things stored in the cloud, internet connection stability etc.?

You guys should really poke opticalhurcules for feedback relating to cloud saves and PC.

I'm more than willing to do everything I possibly can to provide details of whatever is needed. Quantifying performance on a production xbox is a very difficult thing to do apart from noting crash frequency or increased rate of bugs appearing. Once someone resets their save, those bugs may or may not come back. My last 2 or 3 save files worked just fine up until the day they went kaput.

You can do this over PM if you're really interested in fleshing out the details related to this problem. Just let me know what data you need and I will do everything in my ability to provide it.

AdM1
22-09-2015, 21:44
I've completely reset my game now, deleted both my cloud and local save done a fresh install and been playing for the last two hours both online and career with zero issues, can't believe how well the game is playing, no disconnections no crashing no frame drops still got blind AI but otherwise it's a 100% improvement.

Wish I had done this week's ago, my only hope is I don't have to this ever time a patch is released.

Shame you had to reset the game, something I'll still refuse to do.

I'd rather just call time with this game than start again.

OpticalHercules
22-09-2015, 21:54
Shame you had to reset the game, something I'll still refuse to do.

I'd rather just call time with this game than start again.

You should realize that if there is some problem with your save file that is causing you problems, even if SMS does release a fix tomorrow for this problem, it will likely not have any retroactive effect on save files already damaged.

that's your choice if you want to wait until then, but in the mean time the game is working just peachy for those who aren't so attached to their career progress. As I said to wraithstrike above, yes it sucks massively to lose that progress and still have the potential to lose it again in the future. If the option is to start over and enjoy the game for real or continue on muddling through bug after bug hoping for some future fix that likely wont work on your already damaged save file, well, the choice is yours to make. I'm sorry you aren't able to enjoy the game as so many other people are.

AdM1
22-09-2015, 21:56
You should realize that if there is some problem with your save file that is causing you problems, even if SMS does release a fix tomorrow for this problem, it will likely not have any retroactive effect on save files already damaged.

that's your choice if you want to wait until then, but in the mean time the game is working just peachy for those who aren't so attached to their career progress. As I said to wraithstrike above, yes it sucks massively to lose that progress and still have the potential to lose it again in the future. If the option is to start over and enjoy the game for real or continue on muddling through bug after bug hoping for some future fix that likely wont work on your already damaged save file, well, the choice is yours to make. I'm sorry you aren't able to enjoy the game as so many other people are.

It's not the save file though, it's a bug. I dunno why people keep blaming the save file?

Why is it I can save to all tracks with the latest DLC if it's a corrupt save file? Everything else saves okay.

As I say I'd sooner call it quits with the game than start again, just hope they actually fix this one so I can actually play it again.

If once they bring the fix out and I still have the save problem then I'll consider wiping the save but until then they need to get this fixed and stop adding new pointless features.

OpticalHercules
22-09-2015, 22:11
It's not the save file though, it's a bug. I dunno why people keep blaming the save file?


It is a bug that is causing changes to be written into the save file. If it's a bug and the save file is not related, why is deleting the save file and starting fresh working for so many people to fix whatever variety of problems they are experiencing?

Some features added may be pointless to some, others may be pointless to everyone or to no one. That's in the eye of the beholder. I do agree with you that bug resolution should be a priority over feature introduction. I don't think you can claim that they've completely set bug resolution aside though. There have been quite a few bugs worked out. This save file corruption, be it bug or connection or whatever cause, still remains as probably the biggest monster in the room at the moment.

My point is this: So many players are experiencing a variety of different bugs. Many players also report resolution of those bugs when they delete save file and start fresh, even if it is temporary. That said, how many players haven't reset their game save and are still experiencing certain bugs that may or may not be obviously tied to their save file? If this save file problem is resolved sooner rather than later, I do think many other bugs will sort themselves out afterwards without much input from the Dev team.

AdM1
22-09-2015, 22:16
Cheers for the info bud, thankfully for now I have other games to play. I'm over 500 hours on Project Cars so I'm sure a break away while they get this fixed wont hurt too much.

I guess I can only wait and see until they bring the fix and see if I still have trouble or not, fingers crossed I wont and there will be no need to delete the save but only time will tell I suppose.

baz00ka
22-09-2015, 23:35
blaming corrupted saves on connection issues is just lame. i find it hard to believe MS would provide an API that has no error reporting. unless its coded on the game side like this of course 'try { saveFile(); } catch (Error e) { // TODO: implement error handling later }'. the real problem troubleshooting save corruption issues is likely to be that they need actual corrupted save files to figure out the cause/s it and they likely cant get them from MS as they are user files so they are sitting there scratching their heads trying to figure it out from field reports alone. that is if anyone is looking into these corrupted saves at all. its hard to tell whats being actually actively looked into and what not as most bug reports here dont receive any sort of official acknowledgement.

OpticalHercules
23-09-2015, 03:03
blaming corrupted saves on connection issues is just lame. i find it hard to believe MS would provide an API that has no error reporting. unless its coded on the game side like this of course 'try { saveFile(); } catch (Error e) { // TODO: implement error handling later }'. the real problem troubleshooting save corruption issues is likely to be that they need actual corrupted save files to figure out the cause/s it and they likely cant get them from MS as they are user files so they are sitting there scratching their heads trying to figure it out from field reports alone. that is if anyone is looking into these corrupted saves at all. its hard to tell whats being actually actively looked into and what not as most bug reports here dont receive any sort of official acknowledgement.

As I've said in other posts, I doubt that internet connection is playing a role in this, but I'm including it in this argument to play out TenthDan's comment that I replied to back on page 10 http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?39585-From-bad-to-worse&p=1126702&viewfull=1#post1126702 which comment he made back on page 5 http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?39585-From-bad-to-worse&p=1125916&viewfull=1#post1125916

Until proven otherwise, all any of us have is slightly educated guesses. There's no point in ruling out anything as a cause until we have more facts about how it actually works. No matter how lame you think some idea may be, so long as it's logical there is no reason not to pursue it until proven wrong.

foxy2020
23-09-2015, 07:01
Well i will need to investigate more today with it, but i deleted my save files and didn't even re install or hard reset, just off and on. Well....might be placebo..but i swear the screen tearing was less on Oulton park, game looked and played like it did when i first got it.
OK so i loose the career i started but hey i'm not even doing career again as i feel that's one of the contributors to the issues.
Screen tear did get worse week on week, now save file is gone, maybe just maybe it was something in that distorting things?

i do hope so, i played for 2 hours after the save delete and it was awesome as i know this game can be. I'd changed all the graphical settings and since save delete they were back to all full, and still frame rate was better..
So thats both XBOX and PS4 which some people have suggested deleting save files and starting again...maybe its time to just roll that out as possible fix?

Ixoye56
23-09-2015, 08:37
You should realize that if there is some problem with your save file that is causing you problems, even if SMS does release a fix tomorrow for this problem, it will likely not have any retroactive effect on save files already damaged.

that's your choice if you want to wait until then, but in the mean time the game is working just peachy for those who aren't so attached to their career progress. As I said to wraithstrike above, yes it sucks massively to lose that progress and still have the potential to lose it again in the future. If the option is to start over and enjoy the game for real or continue on muddling through bug after bug hoping for some future fix that likely wont work on your already damaged save file, well, the choice is yours to make. I'm sorry you aren't able to enjoy the game as so many other people are.

Yes deleting your savefile will help, but only for a short time if playing career, the bug is still there and will destroy your save file sooner or later.

wraithsrike
23-09-2015, 08:53
Yes deleting your savefile will help, but only for a short time if playing career, the bug is still there and will destroy your save file sooner or later.

Could you explain this in a little more detail, are you saying it's the game itself corrupting the cloud save and not the other way round ? If so how?

baz00ka
23-09-2015, 11:11
but thats the thing its not logical at all, thats what i'm saying.



No matter how lame you think some idea may be, so long as it's logical there is no reason not to pursue it until proven wrong.

Akra
23-09-2015, 11:25
Could you explain this in a little more detail, are you saying it's the game itself corrupting the cloud save and not the other way round ? If so how?

We don't know how, but it does. I've deleted my entire profile and cloud save, and the whole game and reinstalled from scratch. By the time I get into the GT4s in career, the setups are broken again and the cloud save is too. So then it's delete it all, repeat, etc, and wait for it to reappear.

For what it's worth, the setup saving bug happens when I get to the GT4 British Championship EVERY time I play career.

Riskymiata1
23-09-2015, 11:42
I had never problems since the patch 4. I delete all my save games and reinstall the game. Tha t happens to me for the first time . It' s a serious reason to send me back to continue fm6 although Pcars is better in simulating and that because who knows what will happen with next patches.

foxy2020
23-09-2015, 13:21
I had never problems since the patch 4. I delete all my save games and reinstall the game. Tha t happens to me for the first time . It' s a serious reason to send me back to continue fm6 although Pcars is better in simulating and that because who knows what will happen with next patches.

Well i deleted all and so far looking better frame rate wise etc, so lost career and now i wont ever do career again as that is where IMO the fault lies, which means unless they patch in custom championships then this is no longer a 'game' as such, its a very very good simulation on the console with great tracks etc etc, so shall just use it to solo race and hot lap which is fine by me.. its great and i'm glad that i can just chill and mess about with it in that way as the career was at times repetitive and a pain.

But it does mean that i shall happily play Forza 6 alongside it as that has a 'game' with the career in that, I also cant beleive how easy it is to switch between the 2 games, no major differences to the point the BTCC BMW of Forza drives almost the same as the WTCC BMW in Project Cars . All good.

FA RACING 01
23-09-2015, 13:36
LMAO. Seems like everything is the still the same since I took a temporary break from the game a month ago. Guess I'll be back in a month.

RacerPaul65
23-09-2015, 14:13
LMAO. Seems like everything is the still the same since I took a temporary break from the game a month ago. Guess I'll be back in a month
It does seem a tad chaotic, doesn't it? :confused: Forza 6 works nicely out of the box though, so things aren't all bad

Ixoye56
23-09-2015, 14:38
Could you explain this in a little more detail, are you saying it's the game itself corrupting the cloud save and not the other way round ? If so how?

I don't know, but i have deleted my entire profile and cloud save and reinstalled the whole game from scratch every time a new patch have been released, and everytime I get into the Ginetta Junior Championship in career the CTDs show its ugly face again and the setups are broken. So I will stay away from Career until this major bug is fixed.

OpticalHercules
23-09-2015, 17:31
...So thats both XBOX and PS4 which some people have suggested deleting save files and starting again...maybe its time to just roll that out as possible fix?


Yes deleting your savefile will help, but only for a short time if playing career, the bug is still there and will destroy your save file sooner or later.


Could you explain this in a little more detail, are you saying it's the game itself corrupting the cloud save and not the other way round ? If so how?

Whatever it is that is corrupting the online save file has not been identified or fixed. you can delete your save file now and start over and resolve whatever problems you're experiencing. As Ixoye said, sooner or later the cause of the file corruption will strike again and render the new save file damaged as well. Until the cause of the file corruption has been identified and resolved, everything we do is only a temporary workaround to be able to continue enjoying the game.


but thats the thing its not logical at all, thats what i'm saying.

i find it hard to believe MS would provide an API that has no error reporting

Your argument against it possibly being related to connection issues is not rooted in fact. It's rooted in your belief, in your own words, that MS would never provide an API without error reporting built in. Until you know for fact that MS did do that, or we know for fact that the connection is completely unrelated, it is still a logical possibility.

As I said in my other reply, I am inclined to agree with you that a client-side connection issue seems highly unlikely, but until we know more about how this connection is maintained and why it is maintained, to disregard it as a possibility is just as foolish as pinning all your hopes on it being the cause. I am more inclined to think it is related to some open connection being maintained by PCars/xbox to Live cloud and that when either game state is changed unexpectedly (Game closed or crashed, or menu moved through too quickly, again who knows?) or the xbox is turned off or connection interrupted at some key point during data transmission, the file starts to become corrupted. Judging by the number and variety of issues people report being resolved when the save file is deleted, I think it is clear there are levels or degrees of corruption. Because of my belief in how this problem is happening, I am further inclined to believe that either a manual prompt to sync data throughout the various loading screens, or separate loading screens reminding players to do nothing but breath when that screen is up may significantly help this problem. There are warnings as you boot the game to not turn off xbox or otherwise alter the game state while loading screen or certain icons are visible. Maybe there should be more of them, and made more prominent.

Until facts are established, all we have is conjecture and supposition. Until any facts are established surrounding this issue, it would be very foolish to discount any possibility on the basis of belief in anything or anyone.

Schnizz58
23-09-2015, 17:46
As I said in my other reply, I am inclined to agree with you that a client-side connection issue seems highly unlikely, but until we know more about how this connection is maintained and why it is maintained, to disregard it as a possibility is just as foolish as pinning all your hopes on it being the cause. I am more inclined to think it is related to some open connection being maintained by PCars/xbox to Live cloud and that when either game state is changed unexpectedly (Game closed or crashed, or menu moved through too quickly, again who knows?) or the xbox is turned off or connection interrupted at some key point during data transmission, the file starts to become corrupted.
I think something like this is quite likely. The last time it happened to me, I had my Xbox configured to turn off after a period of inactivity. Sometimes I will play for a while and then watch some TV then come back and play the game some more. If I didn't get back to the game soon enough the Xbox would turn off while still in the game. I realized this was happening and figured it might contribute to the profile save issue. Even if it didn't, it's still not a great idea. So I changed the settings to not turn the Xbox off. Since then I haven't had an issue with setups. Now I am definitely not claiming that this solves the problem. N=1 and all that and for all I know it will happen again next time I play. However it might be related so it's something to consider.

OpticalHercules
23-09-2015, 18:17
I think something like this is quite likely. The last time it happened to me, I had my Xbox configured to turn off after a period of inactivity. Sometimes I will play for a while and then watch some TV then come back and play the game some more. If I didn't get back to the game soon enough the Xbox would turn off while still in the game. I realized this was happening and figured it might contribute to the profile save issue. Even if it didn't, it's still not a great idea. So I changed the settings to not turn the Xbox off. Since then I haven't had an issue with setups. Now I am definitely not claiming that this solves the problem. N=1 and all that and for all I know it will happen again next time I play. However it might be related so it's something to consider.

I had the same exact experience. I tend to start playing, then get up and go outside for anywhere from 5-20 minutes if I start talking on the phone, or switch chairs and deal with some business, or kids, or whatever. Previously I had my xbox set to auto-shutdown after 30 minutes. As I've stated several times, I've lost my save data 5 times since release, 4 of those being the 4-bar animation hang on startup. Since I've changed my auto-shutoff to 6 hours, I've only lost my data the one time when I voluntarily deleted data once the game started crashing to dashboard when control was handed to me from AI such as when leaving the pits in Free practice, Race weekend, or online, or after the quick timer when you start a Time Trial match.

Thanks for pointing that out. That's a fact I've forgotten to include, and one of the key reasons I think there is some sort of persistent connection keeping the cloud save file open when apart form contractual obligations, it should be totally unnecessary.

Over the next few days my family is out of town and I will have some uninterrupted time to stress test my save file. Maybe tomorrow or Friday I will sit down and start actively trying to corrupt my save file to see if I can create a repeatable test situation that may be of use to the Dev team.

andreracer
23-09-2015, 18:57
People, you are managing to save the times of the qualifying laps after the 4.0 upgrade ? When I play in single player, after finishing the qualifying, disregards the turns made. Someone has this problem ? (sorry for my terrible English, but i used the google translate)

KkDrummer
23-09-2015, 18:59
People, you are managing to save the times of the qualifying laps after the 4.0 upgrade ? When I play in single player, after finishing the qualifying, disregards the turns made. Someone has this problem ? (sorry for my terrible English, but i used the google translate)

yeah, this one is a bug that came with 4.0. Work around: set practice before qualify and your times in quali will count.

TheReaper GT
23-09-2015, 19:01
People, you are managing to save the times of the qualifying laps after the 4.0 upgrade ? When I play in single player, after finishing the qualifying, disregards the turns made. Someone has this problem ? (sorry for my terrible English, but i used the google translate)

I don't know if I understand it correctly, if you speak Portuguese feel free to shoot me a pm or. A message on xbox live so we can figure it out. If you are saying that after qualify you start last no matter the position you have qualified, maybe you're watching the qualify replay?

baz00ka
23-09-2015, 20:12
even if MS provided no status no error reporting API there are ways around that if you know what you are doing. you can do a checksum on your save, save, sync, read back what you wrote verify checksum. checksum differs its a fail try again. otherwise its dog ate my homework. MS clearly allows multiple saves, other games can do that. you crash and lose state, your checksum fails to verify on next load you revert to last known good save. bottom line is connection issues is lame excuse for save files to get corrupted with no recovery possible other than to delete them and start from scratch. it might very well be the root cause but lame excuse for bad design or implementation.



Your argument against it possibly being related to connection issues is not rooted in fact. It's rooted in your belief, in your own words, that MS would never provide an API without error reporting built in. Until you know for fact that MS did do that, or we know for fact that the connection is completely unrelated, it is still a logical possibility.

As I said in my other reply, I am inclined to agree with you that a client-side connection issue seems highly unlikely, but until we know more about how this connection is maintained and why it is maintained, to disregard it as a possibility is just as foolish as pinning all your hopes on it being the cause. I am more inclined to think it is related to some open connection being maintained by PCars/xbox to Live cloud and that when either game state is changed unexpectedly (Game closed or crashed, or menu moved through too quickly, again who knows?) or the xbox is turned off or connection interrupted at some key point during data transmission, the file starts to become corrupted. Judging by the number and variety of issues people report being resolved when the save file is deleted, I think it is clear there are levels or degrees of corruption. Because of my belief in how this problem is happening, I am further inclined to believe that either a manual prompt to sync data throughout the various loading screens, or separate loading screens reminding players to do nothing but breath when that screen is up may significantly help this problem. There are warnings as you boot the game to not turn off xbox or otherwise alter the game state while loading screen or certain icons are visible. Maybe there should be more of them, and made more prominent.

Until facts are established, all we have is conjecture and supposition. Until any facts are established surrounding this issue, it would be very foolish to discount any possibility on the basis of belief in anything or anyone.

OpticalHercules
23-09-2015, 21:50
...bottom line is connection issues is lame excuse for save files to get corrupted with no recovery possible other than to delete them and start from scratch. ...

However lame the excuse may be is no reason to discount it as a possibility. SMS did not provide the connection issue as a possibility. TenthDan did. He is SuperMod. What that means his relationship is to the Dev Team, I have no idea. Until more is known, you cannot ignore it as a possibility based on your faith in MS knowing what they are doing or faith in SMS knowing what they are doing with MS' assumed requirements. We just don't know.

It's a fact that you can delete your local file and recover from cloud, but you can't delete cloud and recover from local. That feature from MS would likely provide a functional workaround to these various problems until the real cause is found. Whatever the cause of the corruption may be, it is happening and there's no way to know whether it's just SMS' programming, a feature SMS was forced to implement, or some bad something on MS' part.

baz00ka
23-09-2015, 23:39
i just told you in my prev post (#156 above) "it might very well be the root cause" but its simply a lame excuse if it is. however in my case the console is offline and has been offline for a long time. put it offline before patch 3 as it has direct effect on game performance. console goes online only to download patches and xbox system updates when they become available then goes back offline. so if the root cause in my case are connection problems then i would expect to get a corrupted save problems right after applying an update which is not the case. i'm not on a 300 baud modem with no error correction here so undetectable connection problems wont just randomly cause portions of save file values to become garbage.

if they are investigating these mysterious connection problems instead of fixing their game saves code with proper error detection, handling and recovery mechanisms (which as clear as day simply arent there right now) well, good luck to all of us is all i'm gonna say so i really do hope thats not it. and if you think MS gonna implement workarounds for someone elses broken code then put that pipe down. unless other games develop similar problems en masse and thus start affecting overall console experience that way.


However lame the excuse may be is no reason to discount it as a possibility. SMS did not provide the connection issue as a possibility. TenthDan did. He is SuperMod. What that means his relationship is to the Dev Team, I have no idea. Until more is known, you cannot ignore it as a possibility based on your faith in MS knowing what they are doing or faith in SMS knowing what they are doing with MS' assumed requirements. We just don't know.

It's a fact that you can delete your local file and recover from cloud, but you can't delete cloud and recover from local. That feature from MS would likely provide a functional workaround to these various problems until the real cause is found. Whatever the cause of the corruption may be, it is happening and there's no way to know whether it's just SMS' programming, a feature SMS was forced to implement, or some bad something on MS' part.

andreracer
24-09-2015, 13:19
I don't know if I understand it correctly, if you speak Portuguese feel free to shoot me a pm or. A message on xbox live so we can figure it out. If you are saying that after qualify you start last no matter the position you have qualified, maybe you're watching the qualify replay?

TheReaper GT, obrigado pela resposta! Na verdade eu não assisto a nenhum vídeo de replay. Eu faço a qualificação normal e, logo após, entrar na corrida, ao invés de ficar na posição em que terminei na qualificação, vou para posição que está marcada no Menu de opções iniciais do jogo. Mas a dica do colega acima foi válida. É só colocar o treino, que funciona normal a qualificação. Vamos aguardar a próxima atualização pra ver se corrigem. Mais uma vez, valeu! Abraço!

andreracer
24-09-2015, 13:23
yeah, this one is a bug that came with 4.0. Work around: set practice before qualify and your times in quali will count.

Thank you, KkDrummer, you were right, it worked. Now, we have to wait the next patch, to fix this and other errors. Thank you!

Ixoye56
24-09-2015, 13:49
I think something like this is quite likely. The last time it happened to me, I had my Xbox configured to turn off after a period of inactivity. Sometimes I will play for a while and then watch some TV then come back and play the game some more. If I didn't get back to the game soon enough the Xbox would turn off while still in the game. I realized this was happening and figured it might contribute to the profile save issue. Even if it didn't, it's still not a great idea. So I changed the settings to not turn the Xbox off. Since then I haven't had an issue with setups. Now I am definitely not claiming that this solves the problem. N=1 and all that and for all I know it will happen again next time I play. However it might be related so it's something to consider.

I have always had my Xbox into energy save mode and to not turn off, so it must be something else causing the problem.

OpticalHercules
24-09-2015, 16:17
I have always had my Xbox into energy save mode and to not turn off, so it must be something else causing the problem.

I don't think Schnizz was suggesting that that is the only cause. I agree with him that it does seem to exacerbate the problems that I've experienced, and once changed form 30min to 6hr shutdown the problems seems to be less frequent. That's not to say they are now non-existent. I've still had at least one major data issue since removing the possibility of my xbox shutting down mid session.

TheReaper GT
24-09-2015, 16:26
I never lose my data. I use my xbox in instant ON mode, but I aways quit Pcars before turn the console OFF.

Schnizz58
24-09-2015, 16:28
True there could be multiple triggers. Or it could be completely unrelated. We're just firing bullets into the darkness here. In any case, it can't be a Good ThingTM to have the machine shut down while you're in the game, especially if you're in a racing session and not at the top level menu.

baz00ka
24-09-2015, 22:58
here is another shot in the dark. in manage game limited and modified packs are missing for me as well as #1 liveries pack. switch network online and all missing packs re-appear, switch network offline and those packs are still there but hard reboot while staying offline they go missing from manage game section again. cars from those packs are in game offline tho. i had used some of the cars from those 'missing' packs like McLaren F1 and have saved setups for them which must be in my game save somewhere. so now i'm thinking this could be related eg that issue people had with modified car pack which would just re-install itself at random and that SMS said was MS problem being investigated.

OpticalHercules
25-09-2015, 03:24
here is another shot in the dark. in manage game limited and modified packs are missing for me as well as #1 liveries pack. switch network online and all missing packs re-appear, switch network offline and those packs are still there but hard reboot while staying offline they go missing from manage game section again. cars from those packs are in game offline tho. i had used some of the cars from those 'missing' packs like McLaren F1 and have saved setups for them which must be in my game save somewhere. so now i'm thinking this could be related eg that issue people had with modified car pack which would just re-install itself at random and that SMS said was MS problem being investigated.

Could be related. Interesting that it doesn't show the car pack in offline mode but you're able to access the car. I wonder about that whole random reinstall thing anyway.

Still waiting to hear anything from SMS about what they want from their customers as far as help resolving this problem. I still have not seen any confirmation from anyone with a blue name that this issue actually exists, only from various Mods.

TheReaper GT
25-09-2015, 03:26
Could be related. Interesting that it doesn't show the car pack in offline mode but you're able to access the car. I wonder about that whole random reinstall thing anyway.

Still waiting to hear anything from SMS about what they want from their customers as far as help resolving this problem. I still have not seen any confirmation from anyone with a blue name that this issue actually exists, only from various Mods.

The pack reinstall issue was confirmed by one of the devs and he said that Microsoft even had it identified as problem in their side of the fence.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35592-Modified-Car-Pack-Xbox-One&p=1077250&viewfull=1#post1077250

OpticalHercules
25-09-2015, 15:51
The pack reinstall issue was confirmed by one of the devs and he said that Microsoft even had it identified as problem in their side of the fence.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35592-Modified-Car-Pack-Xbox-One&p=1077250&viewfull=1#post1077250

I didn't mean confirmation on the DLC pack problem, I meant confirmation on the save file corruption issue. There's never been any confirmation of that other than in the case of players having save files greater than the 256 or 512mb limit from too many recordings saved. Clearly that issue does not apply to users with save files never greater than 30mb.

Flat_out
25-09-2015, 15:59
The pack reinstall issue was confirmed by one of the devs and he said that Microsoft even had it identified as problem in their side of the fence.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35592-Modified-Car-Pack-Xbox-One&p=1077250&viewfull=1#post1077250

Is the install problem supposed to be fixed?
I still get it happening 1 out of every 3 times I play.

TheReaper GT
25-09-2015, 16:06
Is the install problem supposed to be fixed?
I still get it happening 1 out of every 3 times I play.

Good question, since 3.0 it's happening maybe once a week for me, way better than before, but not fixed.

Schnizz58
25-09-2015, 16:08
Last I heard was that they had reported it to MS, MS was looking into it but I never saw anything to indicate that they resolved it.

baz00ka
25-09-2015, 16:19
yes, my save file is like ~3Mb according to xbox manage storage thing. there doesnt seem to be any problem in my case with dlc packs other than them vanishing from manage game screen offline. i just thought this could be related to save problems.

i wanted to extract that save and see if i can reverse engineer it a bit and maybe fix my corrupted setups issue (done similar in the past with some games to fix partially corrupted saves) but the problem is you just cant get to a save file on xbox one that easily (unlike 360). the saves are stored on internal disk virtual partition (similar to MS virtual machine but custom to xbox). btw people with external storage thinking they backup they save files you are not. you cant get saves from MS cloud either as they are not stored anywhere you can access conventionally. likely its doable (to extract from disk or cloud) but gotta be a huge time sink which to me simply does not worth it.

another thing i have learned is that the game job is to write its save to local xbox disk. xbox then syncs to MS cloud in background and does all the management by itself. if it encounters a problem (eg conflict between local and cloud copy) you see xbox prompt related to saves being out of sync and a dialog choice. if xbox cant sync to cloud (due to connection issues or because its offline) it does not have any effect on your local save.

now i wish i can unlearn all that and get my time back as this is completely and utterly useless.

OpticalHercules
25-09-2015, 17:12
another thing i have learned is that the game job is to write its save to local xbox disk. xbox then syncs to MS cloud in background and does all the management by itself. if it encounters a problem (eg conflict between local and cloud copy) you see xbox prompt related to saves being out of sync and a dialog choice. if xbox cant sync to cloud (due to connection issues or because its offline) it does not have any effect on your local save.


Do you remember where you read this, what you learned? I would like to investigate that more. I agree that the game's job should be to write to local file then MS' job to sync the local file to the cloud, but when one of these issues occur where the game hangs on start, why is there no sync prompt? How are some corruption issues happening just moving from one menu to another within the game, such as with my last corruption noted in my Game Unplayable thread? If xbox is managing the cloud syncs all by itself, how are these corruption issues happening? That's what I find confusing.

Please don't get me wrong thinking I'm doubting what you've said or trying to be confrontational in any way. I'm just trying to learn more about this process to find out why this is happening.

TheReaper GT
25-09-2015, 17:15
More than one friend had the save issue after the Pagani Monza Invitational, back when the game used to crash on this event. Game crash, relaunch, save error. I guess three or four of my friends had this issue.
I'm saying this to add to Optical's research.

andreracer
25-09-2015, 19:14
Hello! The bug against the settings began only after traks access the menu , when pressing the "Y" button. After accessing it , the saved settings are not loaded. If you try to load any saved configuration , they appear again, however, are not fixed when going to another screen . Hopefully not take the next patch.

smokinmasta
25-09-2015, 19:45
Since i took a 'drastic' delete everything option (my fault screwing up switching off xbox whilst installing new vs old expansion). I got a USB 3.0 external HDD everything is good. It also loads and playsso much better. Its a shame the Xbox file system is dire. Never had 1 issue with my PC version since 2011/2........

baz00ka
25-09-2015, 19:58
think about it like DropBox. you have a local file or several local files, you app/game writes data there. if you app/game writes garbage (due to bugs) that garbage still gets written. if you app/game crashes or gets killed and only managed partial write you end up with garbage again or parts of the save out of sync with each other which could lead to some weird app/game state when its subsequently loaded next time. so the DropBox thing or its xbox equivalent it does not know whether the data is good or corrupted. it simply reacts to files being changed and syncs those files to the cloud as they are now (after app/game wrote its data even if its garbage or partial) more recent than their cloud revisions.

https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/games/cloud-game-saves-faq
https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/games/cloud-storage-sync-error-messages


Do you remember where you read this, what you learned? I would like to investigate that more. I agree that the game's job should be to write to local file then MS' job to sync the local file to the cloud, but when one of these issues occur where the game hangs on start, why is there no sync prompt? How are some corruption issues happening just moving from one menu to another within the game, such as with my last corruption noted in my Game Unplayable thread? If xbox is managing the cloud syncs all by itself, how are these corruption issues happening? That's what I find confusing.

Please don't get me wrong thinking I'm doubting what you've said or trying to be confrontational in any way. I'm just trying to learn more about this process to find out why this is happening.

OpticalHercules
25-09-2015, 20:56
think about it like DropBox. you have a local file or several local files, you app/game writes data there. if you app/game writes garbage (due to bugs) that garbage still gets written. if you app/game crashes or gets killed and only managed partial write you end up with garbage again or parts of the save out of sync with each other which could lead to some weird app/game state when its subsequently loaded next time. so the DropBox thing or its xbox equivalent it does not know whether the data is good or corrupted. it simply reacts to files being changed and syncs those files to the cloud as they are now (after app/game wrote its data even if its garbage or partial) more recent than their cloud revisions.


Yes, but we know that cloud files are being corrupted while local files are not since players experiencing some of these problems on log in are able to play while in Offline Mode. That also tells us that the game is looking to the cloud file over the local file when not in Offline Mode. By this, we can assume that the game is writing the local file properly, while whatever writes the cloud file is causing issue, be it game or xbox. It's logical to assume that interrupting the connection could cause data errors. But when errors occur while playing the game with no xbox state change, such as exiting one session and going into config then starting another session, clearly nothing on the xbox itself was interrupted except for the potential of an internet connectivity issue (which I doubt occurred).


Which one do you want to use?

You get this message when your console has newer or different locally saved data than what’s saved in the cloud, usually after you play offline. You’ll be given the choice of which saved data to use, the locally saved or the cloud saved version (and you’ll be notified which is newer). Pick the “save” you want to use and continue.



Curious whether anyone who's had their game stop on the 4-bar animation page has tried logging in in Offline Mode (which we know works since the local save is good), done something in game, then tried to log in again in Online mode and force the cloud to sync to the newer local file. I will have to try this if I can force my file to become corrupted at some point.


How do I know my game saves are in the cloud?

While you’re playing a game, the game data is stored on your Xbox One console. When you exit the game, your data is stored to both your hard drive and the cloud simultaneously. Xbox Live keeps your important data in sync so you don’t lose anything when you use a friend or family member’s console, or even when you switch to a new console.

According to this statement from MS, game data should only be stored locally while "in game". As this applies to PCars, does this mean while PCars itself is loaded, or does "in-game" apply to each individual race session? It's logical to assume that unexpected shutdowns can cause cloud corruption since the data may either not match up with what's already been written locally or the data may be in the process of being written when the system is shut down.

i'm not sure how to word exactly what I'm trying to ask: Is it possible for SMS to include a different loading screen to show when data is being synced, if we assume that MS is correct in saying that data syncs only take place after "exiting a game", whether that means on game shutdown or exiting a session. Or is it possible for SMS to prompt users to begin a sync after exiting a game, perhaps in such a way as to prevent users from getting around that sync window?

I assume that when you shut down the xbox by either using a controller or just tapping the power button on the console briefly the system takes as long as it needs to to finish its current tasks and close connections before really shutting down even if an individual game has been closed. But if a user has manually closed a game and then starts a hard-reset procedure, that may interrupt whatever sync may be happening. I know I'm writing this in a confusing way, but I'm trying to understand it as it applies to what errors we've seen PCars do and when those errors occurred, be they in game or on game shutdown...

baz00ka
26-09-2015, 00:08
thats not necessarily an indication that cloud save is corrupted. the check and sync maybe failing for some reason in those cases (connection problems, MS cloud service outages and whatnot) eg i had experienced that as well on loading screen couple of times when i had to hit 'try again' or whatever it was like 15-20 times before it went thru but i did go thru eventually.

also i dont think SMS really know any details of syncs as events. there are some resources on the net where people talk about xbox modding (wont post links as its somewhat shady content for this site as its operated by commercial entity working with MS) and from what i have gathered each game gets a storage container (chroot like), it mounts it and then writes and reads there. the sync happens by xbox os service responsible for it. it probably is using some safe point events (eg game start, game suspend, game exit) to do that.

its all obviously very questionable info bc they could be making it up or heard somewhere and misunderstood. i'm not in xbox dev programme obviously and i dont wanna bug people who are as they are likely to be under nda. if you wanna know exactly how it works you can get xbox sdk documentation from the leak, its still floating out there if you look for it and i'm sure the whole process is described there in detail. it wont buy you anything in terms of recovering corrupted saves tho.

OpticalHercules
26-09-2015, 15:46
also i dont think SMS really know any details of syncs as events. there are some resources on the net where people talk about xbox modding (wont post links as its somewhat shady content for this site as its operated by commercial entity working with MS) and from what i have gathered each game gets a storage container (chroot like), it mounts it and then writes and reads there. the sync happens by xbox os service responsible for it. it probably is using some safe point events (eg game start, game suspend, game exit) to do that.



That's a given. One of the Xbox FAQ's states that each users essentially has "unlimited" cloud storage space for as many games as they own. While I'm sure MS allows "unlimited" total space to be used per user, we also know that MS limits each individual game to that 256 or 512 mb limit that was causing issues for some players who had many replay saves.


I assume that when you shut down the xbox by either using a controller or just tapping the power button on the console briefly the system takes as long as it needs to to finish its current tasks and close connections before really shutting down even if an individual game has been closed. But if a user has manually closed a game and then starts a hard-reset procedure, that may interrupt whatever sync may be happening. I know I'm writing this in a confusing way, but I'm trying to understand it as it applies to what errors we've seen PCars do and when those errors occurred, be they in game or on game shutdown...

I proved this last night, not that it helps anyone with anything. I did spend about an hour yesterday doing various shutdowns/hard shutdowns in various states of the game, main menu/loading screen/in career session/exiting career session load screen, etc. Nothing "forced" my save file to go bad, and I never really expected it would though I was hopeful, which tells me that it's a combination of factors that *could* add up to a corrupted file. One thing I did note though was the number of "flashes" that the light on the xbox power button made before the xbox power brick light turned yellow. From Dashboard or from Game Main Menu, the light flashed 6 times. While in game session or during a loading screen when the power button was briefly pressed (normal, not forced/hard shutdown) the light flashed 11 times before the power brick light went yellow.

Out of curiosity, I also used a stopwatch to see the game load time from dashboard, as well as the session load time from main menu to a certain settings of Free Practice. This was done on my 27-day old save file that wasn't experiencing much issues. After I noted these times is when I started the shutdown testing, and afterwards deleted my save file as a precaution against whatever unknown damage I may have caused so nothing would come up unexpectedly for my league race this evening. I did a complete reinstall and new save file but then left the xbox off the rest of the night. I'll have to test this morning to see what difference, if any in load times from a new save file compared to a relatively old one. Again, this doesn't prove anything as far as this discussion about corruption is concerned.

MULTIVITZ
27-09-2015, 00:51
I haven't played this game for months........I'm so glad. If the CPU runs hot, it's going to make corrupt data :cool:

Schnizz58
27-09-2015, 20:43
I haven't played this game for months........I'm so glad. If the CPU runs hot, it's going to make corrupt data :cool:
Sorry that isn't true. If the CPU overheats, it will either shut down to protect itself or just fail completely. It's incredibly unlikely that it would fail in a specific way that would cause it to write invalid data.

Raven403
28-09-2015, 00:52
Just got disconnected from a league race. Thanks alot for making multiplayer so unbelievably unreliable. Really great to spend all week tuning and practicing just to have the game shaft me. Awesome. Really fills me with the desire to keep coming back

Ribbito
28-09-2015, 02:34
It seems like this game can't get out of its own way. I'm not sure if it's because of 4.0 but when I am online there seems to be 3 or less multiplayer lobbies open and they are all GT3 cars. Please fix this game so we can have options again. Everyone is running scared to Forza 6 it would seem.

rtazz17
28-09-2015, 02:48
Yup,I think project cars on the xbox anyways lost its window to get it right...

wOoDsTeR16
28-09-2015, 04:46
Just got disconnected from a league race. Thanks alot for making multiplayer so unbelievably unreliable. Really great to spend all week tuning and practicing just to have the game shaft me. Awesome. Really fills me with the desire to keep coming back

I feel your pain dude. 3 leagues I have been in now and all 3 have been canceled due to it being un reliable on line. I am now entered in a 4th league that starts this Sunday, I hope this one will make it past round 3!

Pcars Driver 44
28-09-2015, 05:30
It seems like this game can't get out of its own way. I'm not sure if it's because of 4.0 but when I am online there seems to be 3 or less multiplayer lobbies open and they are all GT3 cars. Please fix this game so we can have options again. Everyone is running scared to Forza 6 it would seem.

Hi when you go online check the right hand side of the screen when your lobbies are displayed! There are two boxes. Top one create game! Box two showing location, event,vehicle,skill there all probably on any except for vehicle class you've more than likely got this on current! Change this to any ;) Hope this helps

Raven403
28-09-2015, 11:00
I feel your pain dude. 3 leagues I have been in now and all 3 have been canceled due to it being un reliable on line. I am now entered in a 4th league that starts this Sunday, I hope this one will make it past round 3!

I'm just not gonna be playing nearly as much. Its just not fun anymore. Keep the DLC, keep it all. Thanks anyway

KkDrummer
28-09-2015, 11:39
I would not trust PCars online for leagues, at least not on Xbox One....I do play online and have fun, but online is where most of the issues are at the moment...playing career and having a blast...

Raven403
28-09-2015, 12:03
I would not trust PCars online for leagues, at least not on Xbox One....I do play online and have fun, but online is where most of the issues are at the moment...playing career and having a blast...

No career for me, think the only thing that would keep me playing is Custom Championships, so I won't be playing much. Not spending all this time playing for nothing when I get disconnected or screwed by a pit stop.

wOoDsTeR16
28-09-2015, 12:07
online is where most of the issues are at the moment

I know mate, and really by now these issues should be long solved. But it's always been about league racing for me, I have never been interested in doing 5 laps on this track and then 5 on the next, it just don't appeal to me. The one thing that is keeping me hopeful is the lad hosting this league is on a gigabit connection and from what I'm told no one gets booted from the lobby, all who start finish so I have everything crossed things work out this time.

But, and this is a big BUT!. If they don't solve these online issues in the next patch I feel it's going to be a game killer, and that will be a waste of what possibly could be the best racing sim to date!.

Raven403
28-09-2015, 12:12
I know mate, and really by now these issues should be long solved. But it's always been about league racing for me, I have never been interested in doing 5 laps on this track and then 5 on the next, it just don't appeal to me. The one thing that is keeping me hopeful is the lad hosting this league is on a gigabit connection and from what I'm told no one gets booted from the lobby, all who start finish so I have everything crossed things work out this time.

But, and this is a big BUT!. If they don't solve these online issues in the next patch I feel it's going to be a game killer, and that will be a waste of what possibly could be the best racing sim to date!.

Yup. Endurance racing with real people is what I wanted, and have been jumping through hoops making it work within all the workarounds and bugs, but sometimes it aparently doesn't matter, you get disconnected for no reason mid race. And it's all for nothing. Pretty disheartening and frustrating especially when your on a wired connection with no issues but the game has other ideas. If it wasn't for my league I already would've stopped playing altogether.

Not to mention you still can't have Sync to Race Weather or run an alternate tire strategy in endurance racing. Something this game was supposedly focused on

Apoc112
28-09-2015, 12:14
^ that's my response to the issues i have had with my career mode.

multiplayer has been horribly unreliable for my friends and I... it takes an act of God for 3-4 of us to stay connected through a practice+quali+race session on a single track, let alone trying to do multiple events in an evening as we would like to. so i have basically given up on MP completely. a shame that many others feel the same way, because it could have been great for leagues. as it stands, though, it's hard to even find anyone playing anything (hope you like GT3!)

career mode was keeping me busy and pretty happy until i started having issues with setups not saving between sessions, and things like pitstop bugs crashing me out of multi-hour races. maybe trashing my multi-season career would fix everything, but it's just not an option for me. i'd rather stop where i am than repeat hundreds of hours of progress.

that leaves me with quick race weekends and time trialing, both of which are enjoyable and will keep me coming back for a while when i really feel like having a deep sim experience, but it's a shame to have so much of the game be virtually unplayable or, at least, not worth the trouble.

Raven403
28-09-2015, 12:19
^ that's my response to the issues i have had with my career mode.

multiplayer has been horribly unreliable for my friends and I... it takes an act of God for 3-4 of us to stay connected through a practice+quali+race session on a single track, let alone trying to do multiple events in an evening as we would like to. so i have basically given up on MP completely. a shame that many others feel the same way, because it could have been great for leagues. as it stands, though, it's hard to even find anyone playing anything (hope you like GT3!)

career mode was keeping me busy and pretty happy until i started having issues with setups not saving between sessions, and things like pitstop bugs crashing me out of multi-hour races. maybe trashing my multi-season career would fix everything, but it's just not an option for me. i'd rather stop where i am than repeat hundreds of hours of progress.

that leaves me with quick race weekends and time trialing, both of which are enjoyable and will keep me coming back for a while when i really feel like having a deep sim experience, but it's a shame to have so much of the game be virtually unplayable or, at least, not worth the trouble.

I can't bother with career after losing my progress twice. I'm not dealing with those awful Karts again and I'm not dealing with any more quali sessions where it rains halfway through it.
And Solo quick race would be fine, if the AI didn't drive like pissed off teenagers. And I'm not a big Hot Lapping fan, so yeah that leaves nothing for me to keep comin back really. I'll just practice a little for league races and show up to those, once a week.

OpticalHercules
28-09-2015, 15:33
I can understand individual users having problems on a league race here and there, but on a whole I've had very little problems since patch 3.0 came out with my league. Since 3.0 I've think I've had one user (who always has net connection problems) get disconnected. Everyone else is perfectly fine for the 90+ minutes of the league session (30 min qual and ~65 min race). This past Saturday (9/26) was an exception, but there were known xbox live issues that day.

If you are having such extreme issues with your league, your host needs to take some additional steps: Reboot your router and modem before starting up the league session. Hard reset the xbox. USE SKYPE, with the skype host using a PC to send calls to everyone else. Yes it's a bit of a hassle, but if you're taking the time and effort to host a league, why not take the additional time and effort to make sure every detail you possibly can is at it's best. I also put a fan next to my xbox blowing into the vents while I'm doing a league race, not because it's necessary, but just in case. I would never just turn on the xbox and start a session for my league and expect there to be no problems with my 10-14 people. Again, if you're going to take the trouble to schedule and plan ahead for everyone, why not take that little extra bit of effort to make sure it works as good as possible. If you're still having connection problems after doing all that, then maybe you need a different host for the league, or that current host needs to look at their network equipment and service connection.

I invite you to ask other members of my league what kind of problems they've had since 3.0 (and prior to 3.0 even): beetesjuice, docholiday600, lll Dopey lll, Bracken99, Saul93, Khal Drogo207, Umadbroyolo, Haiden773, Navcan15, EpilepticToast, Dynomight Motorsports (for one race, at least).

wOoDsTeR16
28-09-2015, 16:45
I can understand individual users having problems on a league race here and there, but on a whole I've had very little problems since patch 3.0 came out with my league. Since 3.0 I've think I've had one user (who always has net connection problems) get disconnected. Everyone else is perfectly fine for the 90+ minutes of the league session (30 min qual and ~65 min race). This past Saturday (9/26) was an exception, but there were known xbox live issues that day.

If you are having such extreme issues with your league, your host needs to take some additional steps: Reboot your router and modem before starting up the league session. Hard reset the xbox. USE SKYPE, with the skype host using a PC to send calls to everyone else. Yes it's a bit of a hassle, but if you're taking the time and effort to host a league, why not take the additional time and effort to make sure every detail you possibly can is at it's best. I also put a fan next to my xbox blowing into the vents while I'm doing a league race, not because it's necessary, but just in case. I would never just turn on the xbox and start a session for my league and expect there to be no problems with my 10-14 people. Again, if you're going to take the trouble to schedule and plan ahead for everyone, why not take that little extra bit of effort to make sure it works as good as possible. If you're still having connection problems after doing all that, then maybe you need a different host for the league, or that current host needs to look at their network equipment and service connection.

I invite you to ask other members of my league what kind of problems they've had since 3.0 (and prior to 3.0 even): beetesjuice, docholiday600, lll Dopey lll, Bracken99, Saul93, Khal Drogo207, Umadbroyolo, Haiden773, Navcan15, EpilepticToast, Dynomight Motorsports (for one race, at least).

That is a hole lot of messing about we shouldn't have to do. However I have done all of the above in the last league I hosted (Apart from having a fan blowing on the xbox), I have a 40meg connection and its hard wired not wifi and yet still nothing but problems. But as I say, the new league I have set up I'm not hosting it and the guy that is seems to have no issues so fingers crossed. Also, 2 of your lads have joined tooday, docholiday600 & ll Dopey lll, are they fast? :)

OpticalHercules
28-09-2015, 17:03
That is a hole lot of messing about we shouldn't have to do. However I have done all of the above in the last league I hosted (Apart from having a fan blowing on the xbox), I have a 40meg connection and its hard wired not wifi and yet still nothing but problems. But as I say, the new league I have set up I'm not hosting it and the guy that is seems to have no issues so fingers crossed. Also, 2 of your lads have joined tooday, docholiday600 & ll Dopey lll, are they fast? :)

Yes they are. Dopey is tied with Bracken for 2nd in the series, and has gotten 2x 1st, 1x 2nd, 2x 3rd in the 7 races he's competed in. Doc is also consistently up there 4 podiums out of 8 races. Both are great, clean racers and will be a benefit to your series.

As far as "a whole lot of messing about you shouldn't have to do", properly maintaining your home network is stuff you shouldn't have to do? Those are steps I take routinely for any game I plan to have large/long multiplayer sessions on, regardless if it's on Xbox 360, Xbox one, or PC. Rebooting modem/router should be routine for any serious gamer. I'm not saying daily, but at least once every other week or so.

Also, about your 40meg connection, I assume that's download bandwidth. The key bandwidth measurement is upload, and I would assume yours is somewhere between 1.5 and 5mbps. More important than that is your ping. Remember, the internet connection you purchase from your ISP is rated in MBPS, but that is NOT a measurement of actual speed. Mb/ps is the measurement of how much data can be moved through your connection at any given instant. Think of it as measuring the diameter of a pipe. the higher connection "speed", the larger diameter pipe, and therefor the more data that can be moved at once. Actual speed is measured in Ping delay from one point to another. While a ping test may measure the delay in MS from one server to your device, remember that each individual "hop" from one device to the next in between your home network and the destination server you're connecting to adds additional delay. There is nothing you can do about those delays other than subscribe to a "Gaming VPN" service such as WTFast.com, though I don't think that can benefit an xbox much. Those work by rerouting your data over known faster data maps.

Schnizz58
28-09-2015, 17:14
A 747 cargo plane loaded with Bluray disks has a ridiculous amount of bandwidth. But also a ridiculous latency.

Raven403
28-09-2015, 17:21
Not getting into all this again. I knew these arguments would pop up saying it's my Internets fault not the game. I'm not getting into all of it, my league uses skype all have wired connections with open NAT and I don't have any issues 95% of the time. So no its not my internet, it's the game. Believe w.e u want it doesn't change my frustration or my mind. I've never had so many problems trying to play a game online on Xbox. 360 or X1

wOoDsTeR16
28-09-2015, 17:40
Yes they are. Dopey is tied with Bracken for 2nd in the series, and has gotten 2x 1st, 1x 2nd, 2x 3rd in the 7 races he's competed in. Doc is also consistently up there 4 podiums out of 8 races. Both are great, clean racers and will be a benefit to your series.

As far as "a whole lot of messing about you shouldn't have to do", properly maintaining your home network is stuff you shouldn't have to do? Those are steps I take routinely for any game I plan to have large/long multiplayer sessions on, regardless if it's on Xbox 360, Xbox one, or PC. Rebooting modem/router should be routine for any serious gamer. I'm not saying daily, but at least once every other week or so.

Also, about your 40meg connection, I assume that's download bandwidth. The key bandwidth measurement is upload, and I would assume yours is somewhere between 1.5 and 5mbps. More important than that is your ping. Remember, the internet connection you purchase from your ISP is rated in MBPS, but that is NOT a measurement of actual speed. Mb/ps is the measurement of how much data can be moved through your connection at any given instant. Think of it as measuring the diameter of a pipe. the higher connection "speed", the larger diameter pipe, and therefor the more data that can be moved at once. Actual speed is measured in Ping delay from one point to another. While a ping test may measure the delay in MS from one server to your device, remember that each individual "hop" from one device to the next in between your home network and the destination server you're connecting to adds additional delay. There is nothing you can do about those delays other than subscribe to a "Gaming VPN" service such as WTFast.com, though I don't think that can benefit an xbox much. Those work by rerouting your data over known faster data maps.

I don't have a router but I always reboot the modem before any league race and make sure anything that uses wifi is turned off before the reboot. My point is this is the only game that I've had to do this for and yet still have problems, any other game I have no problems with and thats without having to reboot the modem and do this work around and that work around. Yes, your right, my upload is 4.7 max but again that has no effect when hosting anything else.

5 months down the line these are issues that should long of been fixed by now, you can't argue with that fact mate.

Rebel Whitey
28-09-2015, 18:27
Finally fed up. Booted repeatedly from League lobby yesterday. Will uninstall and put on shelf until next patch. Too many issues this far down the road, and Leagues moving to FM6. Bummer. When and if it works, PCARS is a great sim.

bc525
28-09-2015, 18:40
I lost all of my PCARS career data recently, so I'm taking a break from it for a while here. I'll get back into it, but right now I'm just a bit frustrated.

I've been meaning to finish some of my other games - Alien Isolation, Halo MCC, Witcher 3, etc. and then I went out and picked up F1 2015. Plus the new Mad Max game looks interesting, and when the hockey season gets into full swing I'll probably get NHL 16.

I'll get back into PCARS eventually, just need a break right now.

Raven403
28-09-2015, 18:46
I lost all of my PCARS career data recently, so I'm taking a break from it for a while here. I'll get back into it, but right now I'm just a bit frustrated.

I've been meaning to finish some of my other games - Alien Isolation, Halo MCC, Witcher 3, etc. and then I went out and picked up F1 2015. Plus the new Mad Max game looks interesting, and when the hockey season gets into full swing I'll probably get NHL 16.

I'll get back into PCARS eventually, just need a break right now.

Mad max is pretty fun. I'd recommend getting it on sale if you can. It gets a tad repeditive I admit, but it's a blast.

Yeah I think I'll grab NHL 16 too. Im almost done with Mad Max and need somethin else to occupy my free time.

Pcars is too frustrating to play right now recreationally

OpticalHercules
28-09-2015, 18:46
Not getting into all this again. I knew these arguments would pop up saying it's my Internets fault not the game. I'm not getting into all of it, my league uses skype all have wired connections with open NAT and I don't have any issues 95% of the time. So no its not my internet, it's the game. Believe w.e u want it doesn't change my frustration or my mind. I've never had so many problems trying to play a game online on Xbox. 360 or X1

You can stick you head in the sand all you want, but so long as the problems you're describing aren't happening to Everyone, then there are other factors involved besides the one common denominator: the game. If everyone were experiencing the same issues as you describe them, then yes, the game would be solely at fault.

I'm not saying the game isn't partially responsible in some way. Of course these issues are happening with greater frequency on this game than with many other games. But there is no way you can compare from a troubleshooting perspective PCars to the other main Xbox racing game, Forza 5 (I don't count 6 yet because this issue predates forza6). Microsoft states that Forza 5 is one of two games that use the cloud service for multiplayer (whatever that means), the other game being Titanfall.

As with most Console gamers, you seem to be only interested in the final product, in this case: quality of online play, without having or wanting to deal with or consider any other factors than what the game puts on the screen. There's nothing wrong with that perspective, as that is what most people purchase a console for, so they don't have to bother with any of the other details. But those other details really are the biggest portion of "the big picture" when it comes to how this game works and interacts with others.

Raven403
28-09-2015, 19:07
You can stick you head in the sand all you want, but so long as the problems you're describing aren't happening to Everyone, then there are other factors involved besides the one common denominator: the game. If everyone were experiencing the same issues as you describe them, then yes, the game would be solely at fault.

I'm not saying the game isn't partially responsible in some way. Of course these issues are happening with greater frequency on this game than with many other games. But there is no way you can compare from a troubleshooting perspective PCars to the other main Xbox racing game, Forza 5 (I don't count 6 yet because this issue predates forza6). Microsoft states that Forza 5 is one of two games that use the cloud service for multiplayer (whatever that means), the other game being Titanfall.

As with most Console gamers, you seem to be only interested in the final product, in this case: quality of online play, without having or wanting to deal with or consider any other factors than what the game puts on the screen. There's nothing wrong with that perspective, as that is what most people purchase a console for, so they don't have to bother with any of the other details. But those other details really are the biggest portion of "the big picture" when it comes to how this game works and interacts with others.

It does happen to other players Optical. Stop being needlessly argumentative. Seems like every week we have at least one member get disconnected. This week it was me, other weeks it's other people. So YES it IS happening to everyone, at random seemingly.

I'm allowed to be frustrated about it too, stop acting like this game works perfectly online. Ask your member Dynomight Motorsports, he's raced with us, he knows there are connection problems and there are things that aren't the networks fault.

I don't have problems with ANY other games I play online. So how is it that it's the ONE game that has problems isn't the problem?


I should also say, I DO reset my router, I DO a hard reset before every league race, I DO have a fan or AC on that blows at my entertainment center where the XB1 is so yeah I am taking the time to ensure I have an un-interupted experience, and as was proven last night, None of it mattered. It didnt crash me to Dashboard, it didnt disconnect from Xbox live, Im not on Wifi, the game simply un-synced, and Disconnected from the Session. all the other cars on track drove straight ahead from where they were, and I did a few thousand feet before the game sent me back to "Race Central" i took a clip.

http://xboxclips.com/Raven403/e41e3c50-b6c6-4986-94ee-2b367db72712

OpticalHercules
28-09-2015, 20:13
I didn't say happening to everyone in your lobby. I said happening to every player of this game. It's clearly not. I also never said the game works perfectly online. It certainly doesn't. There are issues, and I've experienced them as well.

When every action one can possibly take to alleviate problems before they happen is taken, the problems really are minimal, especially after patch 3.0. That's not saying they don't exist. Regular online play, in game chat or live chat, is buggy as hell. But for some reason when skype is used, locking out those parallel voice connections within xbox live fixes a great deal of those problems. I can't join ANY online games if I'm not in a live party. If I do, I instantly crash back to dashboard with disconnections. But I'm still able to work around it and enjoy what I spent my money on because I'm not willing to give up and get angry and essentially throw my money away by putting the game on the shelf. I'm going to do everything I can to get the best experience I can and get the most out of the money I spent. To give up or just sit and complain about it just irritates the hell out of me, probably just as much as my continuously standing up for the game irritates you.

I host games with >8 players at least once a week, often several times, and apart from one specific player who's seemingly never able to connect to me, and one other player who lives in the boondocks of Canada on the other side of the continent from me, no one has problems related to disconnects or crashes while playing with me.

If your league is routinely having multiple people drop every time you get together, there is something more wrong than just the game. There HAS to be. Maybe if another member hosted your games. Maybe the host needs to update their router/modem firmware, or check packet loss, or any multitude of things that happen between the various members of the league. I've dealt with all these problems before and used to be completely unable to do any online gaming at my location. It took around 18 months of troubleshooting with my ISP before the issue was fixed. It wasn't anything I could do, it was the street level connection that was crap, and I'm thankful some drunk driver took out the network equipment forcing Comcast to fix it.

So long as it's working well enough for someone, the fact that it isn't working well at all for someone else does not mean that the problem is solely with the game when all factors are considered.

It's easier to sit and bitch about the game rather than dig into every facet of what online gaming really is. It's a hell of a lot easier. And so long as that is all you're willing to do, there is NOTHING that will improve your experience. Be positive about it, don't give up on it, and sooner or later you'll have the same great lobbies that I have routinely. If you give up on it, you never will, and then you're just wasting your time complaining about it here and SMS's time reading about it here. If you're not willing to do everything possible on your end to isolate the problems, how in the hell will SMS ever get it working if they don't know where to look and have every logical reason to think the problem isn't even on their end under specific conditions.


Anyway, this thread is being derailed in multiplayer. This was supposed to be about losing save data.

Megalomanic87
28-09-2015, 20:17
- Loads up Project cars Forums.
- ''xbox 4.0 patch notes''
- Celebrates.
- Gets disk and dusts it off.
- Reads this thread.
- Sulk.
- Puts game back.

See you all next patch folks!!! :miserable:

Raven403
28-09-2015, 20:33
I didn't say happening to everyone in your lobby. I said happening to every player of this game. It's clearly not. I also never said the game works perfectly online. It certainly doesn't. There are issues, and I've experienced them as well.

When every action one can possibly take to alleviate problems before they happen is taken, the problems really are minimal, especially after patch 3.0. That's not saying they don't exist. Regular online play, in game chat or live chat, is buggy as hell. But for some reason when skype is used, locking out those parallel voice connections within xbox live fixes a great deal of those problems. I can't join ANY online games if I'm not in a live party. If I do, I instantly crash back to dashboard with disconnections. But I'm still able to work around it and enjoy what I spent my money on because I'm not willing to give up and get angry and essentially throw my money away by putting the game on the shelf. I'm going to do everything I can to get the best experience I can and get the most out of the money I spent. To give up or just sit and complain about it just irritates the hell out of me, probably just as much as my continuously standing up for the game irritates you.

I host games with >8 players at least once a week, often several times, and apart from one specific player who's seemingly never able to connect to me, and one other player who lives in the boondocks of Canada on the other side of the continent from me, no one has problems related to disconnects or crashes while playing with me.

If your league is routinely having multiple people drop every time you get together, there is something more wrong than just the game. There HAS to be. Maybe if another member hosted your games. Maybe the host needs to update their router/modem firmware, or check packet loss, or any multitude of things that happen between the various members of the league. I've dealt with all these problems before and used to be completely unable to do any online gaming at my location. It took around 18 months of troubleshooting with my ISP before the issue was fixed. It wasn't anything I could do, it was the street level connection that was crap, and I'm thankful some drunk driver took out the network equipment forcing Comcast to fix it.

So long as it's working well enough for someone, the fact that it isn't working well at all for someone else does not mean that the problem is solely with the game when all factors are considered.

It's easier to sit and bitch about the game rather than dig into every facet of what online gaming really is. It's a hell of a lot easier. And so long as that is all you're willing to do, there is NOTHING that will improve your experience. Be positive about it, don't give up on it, and sooner or later you'll have the same great lobbies that I have routinely. If you give up on it, you never will, and then you're just wasting your time complaining about it here and SMS's time reading about it here. If you're not willing to do everything possible on your end to isolate the problems, how in the hell will SMS ever get it working if they don't know where to look and have every logical reason to think the problem isn't even on their end under specific conditions.


Anyway, this thread is being derailed in multiplayer. This was supposed to be about losing save data.

We're obviously at an impass optical. I'm just at a point where my frustration with Pcars outweighs my enjoyment of it, you have a different mindset, that's fine, I just play games for fun and right now Pcars isn't for me. And im not just an ignorant console gamer, I play on PC too, in fact I own pcars on PC as well. I'm not ignorant to the foibles of online gaming, but when (as you can see in the clip) there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason, it leaves me no where to look to find a solution.

So I'll take a break, do my league races and otherwise not much, that's just all I can do, I'm not sure what else you would like me to do but sometimes people just need to walk away from things that frustrate them I'm sorry that irritates you.

The reason, infact, it is so very frustrating is because I do enjoy and at times LOVE the game, only to have it be THAT much more frustrating when it does something like it did in a league race.

Anyway I digress, it's off topic and that's all I'll say

rtazz17
28-09-2015, 22:33
I didn't say happening to everyone in your lobby. I said happening to every player of this game. It's clearly not. I also never said the game works perfectly online. It certainly doesn't. There are issues, and I've experienced them as well.

When every action one can possibly take to alleviate problems before they happen is taken, the problems really are minimal, especially after patch 3.0. That's not saying they don't exist. Regular online play, in game chat or live chat, is buggy as hell. But for some reason when skype is used, locking out those parallel voice connections within xbox live fixes a great deal of those problems. I can't join ANY online games if I'm not in a live party. If I do, I instantly crash back to dashboard with disconnections. But I'm still able to work around it and enjoy what I spent my money on because I'm not willing to give up and get angry and essentially throw my money away by putting the game on the shelf. I'm going to do everything I can to get the best experience I can and get the most out of the money I spent. To give up or just sit and complain about it just irritates the hell out of me, probably just as much as my continuously standing up for the game irritates you.

I host games with >8 players at least once a week, often several times, and apart from one specific player who's seemingly never able to connect to me, and one other player who lives in the boondocks of Canada on the other side of the continent from me, no one has problems related to disconnects or crashes while playing with me.

If your league is routinely having multiple people drop every time you get together, there is something more wrong than just the game. There HAS to be. Maybe if another member hosted your games. Maybe the host needs to update their router/modem firmware, or check packet loss, or any multitude of things that happen between the various members of the league. I've dealt with all these problems before and used to be completely unable to do any online gaming at my location. It took around 18 months of troubleshooting with my ISP before the issue was fixed. It wasn't anything I could do, it was the street level connection that was crap, and I'm thankful some drunk driver took out the network equipment forcing Comcast to fix it.

So long as it's working well enough for someone, the fact that it isn't working well at all for someone else does not mean that the problem is solely with the game when all factors are considered.

It's easier to sit and bitch about the game rather than dig into every facet of what online gaming really is. It's a hell of a lot easier. And so long as that is all you're willing to do, there is NOTHING that will improve your experience. Be positive about it, don't give up on it, and sooner or later you'll have the same great lobbies that I have routinely. If you give up on it, you never will, and then you're just wasting your time complaining about it here and SMS's time reading about it here. If you're not willing to do everything possible on your end to isolate the problems, how in the hell will SMS ever get it working if they don't know where to look and have every logical reason to think the problem isn't even on their end under specific conditions.


Anyway, this thread is being derailed in multiplayer. This was supposed to be about losing save data.


Im sorry. But to have to go through 10 different steps to get a game lobby to work? I call that a broken game my friend.
Stay positive after 5 months of pure crap?Lol

Why should we be the ones to figure out what the exact problem of THEIR game is??
Thats THEIR job in the first place.

Umer Ahmad
28-09-2015, 22:38
@Raven

Nothing to apologize about, we all have slightly dofferent goals for th e game and it is an ambitious project with various strengths and weaknesses. I've been playing for almost 4 years (pcars "birthday" = 11OCT2011 iirc) and due to time constraints (job, family) i only have time to practice the same race 2 hours/week: QRW (race only), Nordschliefe, 8am start time, medium cloud, 2 laps with RUF rt12rtrtrt, MEDIUM tyres and 22L fuel, custom tune, rolling start & player Last

Thats it, the whole september...thats all i did. (Dabbled in some MP but too many wreckers, i dont have time for wreckers and cant make league races)

Rebel Whitey
29-09-2015, 05:02
Finally fed up. Booted repeatedly from League lobby yesterday. Will uninstall and put on shelf until next patch. Too many issues this far down the road, and Leagues moving to FM6. Bummer. When and if it works, PCARS is a great sim.

To be honest, after further investigation, it appears to be a damaged cable causing my problems. Frustration level at critical, will still wait for next patch. I really want to love this sim.

OpticalHercules
29-09-2015, 15:24
Maybe it is just how I look at things that makes taking those umpteen steps to make something work not bother me at all. I have a very addictive personality, and I very easily fall into routines. Even if that routine involves taking 5+ minutes of fiddling with this and that, doing this step or that to make something work the way I want it to, I don't look at that as time lost or as an expense in any way. It just becomes normal to me very easily and very quickly.

I can appreciate the frustration other have in dealing with the little aspect of this game that cause so much angst, and even more than those little things, the fact that little has been done to address those issues. Or, if something has been done, it didn't fix the issue or introduced new ones.

It's just that for me, no matter the investment of time, I refuse to accept something as a loss if there's a way to work around it. My first data file loss hit me hard. Around 120 hours of career gone instantly. Since then I've adjusted to the fact that the game still has save data issues and I expect my save data to be lost again in the future. Hence why I write down all my tunes as I make them. The time investment of doing so is nothing to me because I've made it part of my norm. Fast Forward, now I've lost 4 more unintentional save loss (and one, my most recent, was intentional and planned so I don't count it), each with at least 50 hours of career play and 3-4x more Solo play hours.

As I said in some previous post, I have a feeling that resolving whatever corruption issue there is may result in self-resolution of many other problems that players are experiencing. Most players have very little trouble with the game immediately after deleting their save file and starting fresh. I think that these "corruption" issues (for lack of a better description, at this point) build upon themselves over time, incrementally increasing the number of problems contained within the save file. How many players are out there who refuse to delete their save file unless absolutely forced to? Are those the same players experiencing the majority of game problems? I think that once this corruption issue is resolved, those players experiencing the majority of problems will see a major improvement in their game, provided whatever fix SMS releases repairs their current save file, or the cause of the problem is resolved and the players decide to start over to get the benefit of that resolution.

Rebel Whitey
29-09-2015, 16:36
I had new HDTV/Internet service installed on Saturday. I had my hardwire from XBOX One to Router routed around a doorway. Tech said, "I can put that through the wall with the others. I'll just put a new end on it." Come to find out, there are two protocols, and he picked the wrong one. Tech delivering new cable today. Fingers crossed.

beetes_juice
29-09-2015, 17:54
Im sorry. But to have to go through 10 different steps to get a game lobby to work? I call that a broken game my friend.
Stay positive after 5 months of pure crap?Lol

Why should we be the ones to figure out what the exact problem of THEIR game is??
Thats THEIR job in the first place.

From where the game came from I'm more inclined to say its OUR game. Hope WMD members don't take offense to that but I really believe this is our game. Take that for what you want: report bugs to help better the game, let it collect dust, or throw snide comments at others on the internet, whatever. You make this game out to what you want it to be. I've made it out to be my go to game the past 4 months. Its been awesome.

PS: To Open a Lobby:
1) Start PC
2) Create New room
3) Enter settings
4) Race.

HenTheKing
29-09-2015, 20:34
Absolutely none of my tunes are loading at all now. Limited edition isn't installing. Can't use the Merc DTM.

Urgh.

Umer Ahmad
29-09-2015, 20:43
Could be
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?37987-INVESTIGATING-season-pass&p=1134222#post1134222

beetes_juice
29-09-2015, 20:47
Or live (https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live-status)being down basically all day; don't see that helping with DLC. Tunes and no DLC? Is your GT logged in at the top right?

HenTheKing
29-09-2015, 21:51
Yes. It's done it before, twice in fact. This time I can't make it install. Hard reset etc.

Not only that but since 4.0 only half the tune/track list is showing up (corruption, CBA to start again) and like I said above, none of my tunes load for MP.

Is this being fixed? It's literally making it so hard to play. I've spent hours putting all those settings in. :-(

KkDrummer
30-09-2015, 10:56
Yes. It's done it before, twice in fact. This time I can't make it install. Hard reset etc.

Not only that but since 4.0 only half the tune/track list is showing up (corruption, CBA to start again) and like I said above, none of my tunes load for MP.

Is this being fixed? It's literally making it so hard to play. I've spent hours putting all those settings in. :-(

uninstall the limited edition and reinstall it from scratch....Xbox Live is up and running fine again it should work now...

RacerPaul65
30-09-2015, 12:24
uninstall, reinstall, hard reboot, workaround. sounds like the kind of faffing about that used to be very prevalent in pc gaming

this is on a console. a console. we simply should not have to do any of that kind of thing. that's my honest opinion

OpticalHercules
30-09-2015, 15:38
uninstall, reinstall, hard reboot, workaround. sounds like the kind of faffing about that used to be very prevalent in pc gaming

this is on a console. a console. we simply should not have to do any of that kind of thing. that's my honest opinion

Except that today's consoles are simply built-to-spec PC's with built in Operating Systems that continuously run in the background of all games. Previous consoles that you'd expect not to have to do this had no background OS, and the games were the OS from ROM cartridge or disc. The ONLY difference between your Xbox One and your Windows/Mac/Linux PC is the Operating System. That's it.

grrrillapmp
30-09-2015, 15:46
So many excuses.

OpticalHercules
30-09-2015, 15:57
So many excuses.

What's the excuse? The fact that the xbox IS a PC in a stylish box with a custom OS? Why insist on posting on these forums if you have zero intention of trying to solve anything?

If you expect any system to work perfectly every single time, seriously toss your xbox one, go find an old NES or SNES, and play those. And even then you'll have to use that reset button built into those consoles every now and again.

It really isn't as if PCars is the only troublesome game on this system. I've dealt with some issues on the other games I've played as well, Destiny, Elder Scrolls, (I started playing forza too late in it's life to experience the problems people reported with that game). Those problems were worked through. That's exactly what's happening with this game.

beetes_juice
30-09-2015, 16:14
It really isn't as if PCars is the only troublesome game on this system. I've dealt with some issues on the other games I've played as well, Destiny, Elder Scrolls, (I started playing forza too late in it's life to experience the problems people reported with that game). Those problems were worked through. That's exactly what's happening with this game.

FM5 was a pain with crash to home screens, even late in its life after updates/patches/track packs it was always still there. Think its kinda funny that they get somewhat of a free pass on this while a crash to home in PC turns the game into unplayable garbage.

Raven403
30-09-2015, 16:36
FM5 was a pain with crash to home screens, even late in its life after updates/patches/track packs it was always still there. Think its kinda funny that they get somewhat of a free pass on this while a crash to home in PC turns the game into unplayable garbage.

I think, to be fair, it's not JUST the crash to home screen bug. It's the abundance of bugs, workarounds and problems that lead to the constant stream of negativity and complaining.

If everything else in the game worked as intended 90% of the time, I don't think you would see that many people in here ranting and raving because it would be a small thing to deal with in the broader spectrum. You brought up FM5, yes it had its problems, but I never got dashed never had nearly as many issues as I did/do in pcars. My problems with FM5 are totally unrelated to the playability of the game itself.

I'll use GTA5 as another example, At launch GTA online was awful, it was a bug ridden, crashing mess, but I was still able to enjoy the single player 99% bug free in my experience until GTA Online was patched enough to enjoy. It seems for many people, that really isn't the case when It comes to Pcars. If it was ONLY mp that was bug ridden, it'd be easier to excuse, but when it's nearly every facet of the game, your left with alot of people who have no where to turn to just enjoy the game and not be reminded of the issues plaguing it.

Obviously there are alot of factors changing people's experiences of it, so arguing needlessly about how different people enjoy different aspects is pointless. It's also no consumers responsibility to constantly take a pro-active role in making a product work, unless they choose to do so.

If you sold a vacuum cleaner that was in fact the best vacuum cleaner in the world but you needed to assemble it every time you used it, sure some people might deal with that, alot wouldnt, despite it being the best they'd settle for the pre-assembled second best vacuum. That's human nature.

Yes the Xbox is a computer with a specific OS. But that OS's job is to make things User Friendly and pick up and play, something PC Gaming was never known for, so when you start making console players jump through hoops and complicate the experience that's where you'll run into problems

Edit: But the game is being worked on, patched and improved. So if you have the patience and resolve to wait for it to get to the point you have been expecting then by all means, otherwise I'm not sure why one would still bother playing it in the meantime just to get purposely frustrated.

beetes_juice
30-09-2015, 16:44
Yes I did forget to add that in my post. Its not just the crash to home, its the accumulation of the bugs that push people over the edge.


Yes the Xbox is a computer with a specific OS. But that OS's job is to make things User Friendly and pick up and play, something PC Gaming was never known for, so when you start making console players jump through hoops and complicate the experience that's where you'll run into problems

Very good point to the whole console vs pc war.

foxy2020
30-09-2015, 17:39
FM5 was a pain with crash to home screens, even late in its life after updates/patches/track packs it was always still there. Think its kinda funny that they get somewhat of a free pass on this while a crash to home in PC turns the game into unplayable garbage.

I don't think they got a free pass at all, people are staying away from F6 because of F5's issues and missing content at launch. Mainly because SOME game developers are realising that the loyalists who will forgive EVERYTHING and just say how great everything is and how bugs are apart of the game etc etc etc are the minority.
The core customers are the guys who just want a pretty much functioning game and honestly.
Turn 10 learned this lesson and they are still paying for Forza 5 to a degree..
The mistake is going on to a forum and seeing loyalists clogging up the threads and being rude to genuine customer concerns and thinking the rest of the world is thinking like that.

Plato99
30-09-2015, 17:39
Crash to Home bug is not a pCARS exclusive. Personally I've never had it in any game. However, my colleague has them frequently in FIFA15, FIFA16, COD, and GTA V.
My gut feeling is that there is a background app somewhere on there thats causing the grief, not the games themselves.
I've turned off notifications right from day one of owning a 360 and still have them off on the XBox1. Not only do I not care that a bloke I used to work with is now playing Minecraft, it stops the constant popups and interruptions that cause framerates to plummet. ANything that happens in the background that upsets the point of focus has gotta be a bad thing. I turn it all off and pCars runs like a charm post patch 4.0.

Plato99
30-09-2015, 17:42
I don't think they got a free pass at all, people are staying away from F6 because of F5's issues and missing content at launch. Mainly because SOME game developers are realising that the fanbois who will forgive EVERYTHING and just say how great everything is and how bugs are apart of the game etc etc etc are the minority.
The core customers are the guys who just want a pretty much functioning game and honestly.
Turn 10 learned this lesson and they are still paying for Forza 5 to a degree..

At one time a new Forza release was something to look forward to. As you say, FM5 killed it for me. It was hollow and lifeless.
The king is dead, long live the new king.

TheReaper GT
30-09-2015, 17:43
Cod ghosts gave me at least three ctd per day

Raven403
30-09-2015, 17:45
I honestly don't know the last time I had a game CTD frequently. Idk what's different about my setup besides the EXT HD

AdM1
30-09-2015, 18:15
This thread still going then..

I've not really touched it much in a while, will be checking out the new DLC in a day or 2 though. FM6 is great fun for me and it's a hell of a lot less frustrating at times. I'll be dedicating my time there for now and see how 5.0 goes.

beetes_juice
30-09-2015, 18:18
Wonder how the xbox reacts to high temperature. Highest temp I've seen with project cars was 108 F and that was Nords/GT3/full grid; no screen tearing or stuttering, ran smooth.

I've always thought about temp in the back of my head when reading threads dealing with freezes/stuttering/etc.

grrrillapmp
30-09-2015, 18:33
What's the excuse? The fact that the xbox IS a PC in a stylish box with a custom OS? Why insist on posting on these forums if you have zero intention of trying to solve anything?

If you expect any system to work perfectly every single time, seriously toss your xbox one, go find an old NES or SNES, and play those. And even then you'll have to use that reset button built into those consoles every now and again.

It really isn't as if PCars is the only troublesome game on this system. I've dealt with some issues on the other games I've played as well, Destiny, Elder Scrolls, (I started playing forza too late in it's life to experience the problems people reported with that game). Those problems were worked through. That's exactly what's happening with this game.

That's one excuse I've heard yes. As well as it being okay the game is buggy because other games have bugs. Or that it's okay that the game was released in a pre alpha state because at least it's being worked on. Oh, and there is it's not a big deal the game is buggy because it was only sixty dollars. Or that it's okay the game is buggy because everyone isn't experiencing the same bugs. Then there was it's okay the game is buggy because at least the developers keep us informed. Or how about it's okay that the game is buggy and if you expected a polished retail product you were expecting too much. Those are a few just of the top of my head.

I do always expect my system to work, and you know what? It always has...project cars tho...That's a completely different story. I also still have my snes so no need to go find one.

And yes project cars is the only troublesome game on my system.

I don't insist on posting on this forum I'd much rather be, ya know, playing a finished version of project cars, but...alas...

beetes_juice
30-09-2015, 18:39
That's one excuse I've heard yes. As well as it being okay the game is buggy because other games have bugs. Or that it's okay that the game was released in a pre alpha state because at least it's being worked on. Oh, and there is it's not a big deal the game is buggy because it was only sixty dollars. Or that it's okay the game is buggy because everyone isn't experiencing the same bugs. Then there was it's okay the game is buggy because at least the developers keep us informed. Or how about it's okay that the game is buggy and if you expected a polished retail product you were expecting too much. Those are a few just of the top of my head.

I do always expect my system to work, and you know what? It always has...project cars tho...That's a completely different story. I also still have my snes so no need to go find one.

And yes project cars is the only troublesome game on my system.

I don't insist on posting on this forum I'd much rather be, ya know, playing a finished version of project cars, but...alas...

Yawn. Been playing a finished version of pc for months now bud. Its great. :cool:

You could turn that post into a game, well a drinking game. Kinda like the game Roxanne; play Roxanne by the Police and drink every time they say "Roxanne"......every time you read the word "buggy" you must take a drink.

Dan77 DESTROYER
30-09-2015, 18:47
Wonder how the xbox reacts to high temperature. Highest temp I've seen with project cars was 108 F and that was Nords/GT3/full grid; no screen tearing or stuttering, ran smooth.

I've always thought about temp in the back of my head when reading threads dealing with freezes/stuttering/etc.


Mine never gets a chance to get hot hot because I've bought some pc usb cooling fans from coolerguys.com that sit on top and suck out any heat that's generated, works a treat ;)

AdM1
30-09-2015, 18:48
I dunno if it is a heat thing, I mean sometimes I'll be on it for 5 hours straight and it was fine and then another time it would do it in the first 30 minutes.. I've not really had the crash to desktop much though, maybe not at all since around 3.0. Strange how some people get it and some don't.

I should add I've not played it since 4.0 though so maybe it's got worse I dunno.

Flat_out
30-09-2015, 19:03
Have to say since the last patch I have experienced very few CTD.The only issue apart from set- ups is Multiplayer which is still causing me a few problems.
Apart from that it seems to be getting to where I expct it to be."fingers crossed"

Umer Ahmad
30-09-2015, 19:18
Thread marked [SOLVED], OP seems better now:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?40151-Big-thanks-to-SMS-for-this-game&p=1135727&viewfull=1#post1135727

OpticalHercules
30-09-2015, 19:25
If everything else in the game worked as intended 90% of the time, I don't think you would see that many people in here ranting and raving because it would be a small thing to deal with in the broader spectrum. You brought up FM5, yes it had its problems, but I never got dashed never had nearly as many issues as I did/do in pcars. My problems with FM5 are totally unrelated to the playability of the game itself.

In my opinion, 90% of the game does work as intended. As with nearly any product in the world, whether the most fantastical thing imaginable or something as simple as a spoon, no matter how well it works the majority of the time those few bugs are what people will focus on exclusively. It's just human nature.


If you sold a vacuum cleaner that was in fact the best vacuum cleaner in the world but you needed to assemble it every time you used it, sure some people might deal with that, alot wouldnt, despite it being the best they'd settle for the pre-assembled second best vacuum. That's human nature.

I don't think you've ever owned a Rainbow Vac. It is arguably one of the best products out there, and you do have to completely assemble/disassemble it every time you use it.


Yes the Xbox is a computer with a specific OS. But that OS's job is to make things User Friendly and pick up and play, something PC Gaming was never known for, so when you start making console players jump through hoops and complicate the experience that's where you'll run into problems

The purpose of the OS on the console is to enable to console to do a broad variety of things that people used to solely rely on PC's to do. If the console were designed as a purely gaming machine and forgot about all the other features they try to market them with today, I bet we would have a much better, stabler machine that did it's task much more efficiently and reliably. Because Sony/MS have decided to create a broad-spectrum "entertainment" machine (MS more than Sony, to some degree) these machines are no longer able to do any one thing with excellence. Pre-nativeOS consoles (NES through PS2/N64) the games had to have all the drivers and hardware controlling programming built into them, with each game essentially configuring the system to work in the best way possible for that game. With today's Xbox, 360, XbOne, PS3/4, the games have to be written to make use of the drivers and system controls that already exist on the system. Instead of the games pushing the system's capabilities as was normal in the past, now every game has to fit into a neat little box defined not by the hardware's capabilities, but by software written by someone other than the game's developer. Today's consoles are PC's. There is no functional difference in the realm of entertainment. These consoles could just as easily be used/converted for business use if they had an operating system designed to accommodate those programs.


Mainly because SOME game developers are realising that the loyalists who will forgive EVERYTHING and just say how great everything is and how bugs are apart of the game etc etc etc are the minority.
...
The mistake is going on to a forum and seeing loyalists clogging up the threads and being rude to genuine customer concerns and thinking the rest of the world is thinking like that.


I don't see the "loyalists" forgiving everything or clogging the threads being rude to others. The SMS employees have basically learned to stay away form this subforum because of being continuously bashed by perpetually disgruntled customers. The "loyalists" or optimists about the game are usually the ones trying to answer people's questions, people who don't look through the FAQ threads or use the search function realizing that for the most part their questions have already been answered, often many times. When there is some genuinely new issue brought up, the Mods are often one of the first responders trying to help resolve the issue or pass it on to those who's attention is warranted for that problem. The only thing clogging up the threads that I see are those posts by those perpetually disgruntled customers who seem to want nothing more than to proclaim their discontent with the game daily, posting daily for weeks about how they aren't playing this game anymore. There's likely nothing SMS can offer at this point that will change those customers' minds about the product, they won't have a change of heart when some issue is actually resolved but rather complain about why it wasn't fixed before. I think the "loyalists" want to see this game work 100% as much as any other poster on this forum, but know that being proactive about the issues will always have more effect than being negative. I consider myself (and I assume you consider me to be part of) the "loyalists", and we sure as hell don't forgive every issue about the game, or swear that the issue doesn't exist. There are issues, but when someone experiencing those issues takes every step in the troubleshooting procedure, they usually find those problems are fixable. Look at the Original Poster back on page one of this thread. His problem was fixed through troubleshooting his problem, getting help from those very same "loyalists" who are clogging up this forum. Yes there are still bugs that cannot be worked around, and I'm sure SMS is working on them, from sound glitches to multiplayer stutter, dropped lobbies, to save file corruption. Yes there are issues, but those issues will never be fixed unless people provide SMS with the information needed to help them fix it. Those issues have all existed since day one, and likely the only reason they haven't been fixed yet is because there wasn't enough information to tell SMS where the problem is actually occurring. That's the whole point of this thread going on for so many pages, is to provide that information, helpful or not, to SMS.

When I post things instructing people to do all kinds of songs and dances with your modem/router/oven/bedframe, it's not because I'm trying to deflect some issue away from the game. It's because that is the standard progression for troubleshooting things. You ALWAYS isolate the problem first. To isolate an online gaming issue, you have to first make sure that everything in between the game and the internet is working properly. Saying "i know it works" means nothing. Acting to ensure that it works as intended is what's important. There's a reason that whenever anyone calls tech support, say to their ISP, the first thing they always tell you to do is to power cycle the network. That's because even though you and they may know that won't fix the problem and doing so seems like a waste of everyone's time, doing so is just making sure that the issue is covered and eliminated the possibility that that is indeed the cause of the problem.

Umer Ahmad
30-09-2015, 20:00
^agree with eveything above except: "Today's consoles are PC's"

I think the consoles have now gone past what i expect from my PC. My PC is pretty dedicated running project cars and supporting my wife's Office applications, that it. It does not control other thjngs in my house like TV or set top boxes. I dont stream on it (though it probably can). It does not function as an Home theatre system or ay blu-ray movies. The XB1 has a pretty wide feature set, it's not just for playing games.

"Loyalists", if i am in that group than my only intention is to bring to others the level of enjoyment i get from pcars via education and working between the player community and SMS. We've some guys do complete 180s on their opinion by following the community's collective guidance. Sure i wish out-of-the-box it was simply there but for some it may take additional work or time for the software to catch-up to expectations. It was and continues to be a very ambitious (and higher risk) multiplatform project.

Schnizz58
30-09-2015, 20:13
Hardware-wise they are PCs. Hardware-wise my TiVo is a PC too. I think part of the problem with the Xbox platform is exactly the "wide feature set, not just for playing games." Personally I'd rather have a box that was just for playing games.

OpticalHercules
30-09-2015, 20:18
^agree with eveything above except: "Today's consoles are PC's"

I think the consoles have now gone past what i expect from my PC. My PC is pretty dedicated running project cars and supporting my wife's Office applications, that it. It does not control other thjngs in my house like TV or set top boxes. I dont stream on it (though it probably can). It does not function as an Home theatre system or ay blu-ray movies. The XB1 has a pretty wide feature set, it's not just for playing games.



Your PC absolutely can do all of that home theater integration. There are cards out there that enable you to do that, there are devices that let your computer act as a DVR while streaming a broadcast TV signal over your WiFi network to every connected device in your home. Just because your PC isn't currently configured for that purpose doesn't mean it isn't capable. The Xbox/PS4 already has those capabilities built in as a nice convenient package that enables customers to open the box and go with very little setup. The PC can do anything you want it to if you take the steps that Microsoft/Sony already has for you. The hardware inside any PS4/Xbox is directly compatible with any PC, provided there are drivers available for it. The only reason you can't turn a PC into an Xbox or PS4 is because the console OS is (i assume) written is such a way as to only recognize the specific hardware configuration contained in that console, and to halt itself if any other hardware is detected.

HenTheKing
30-09-2015, 20:59
Is the Aston v8 vantage part of the new dlc?

HenTheKing
30-09-2015, 21:00
Just googled, it is. Just did a 7 lap race in it. I haven't bought the new dlc!

Raven403
30-09-2015, 21:01
In my opinion, 90% of the game does work as intended. As with nearly any product in the world, whether the most fantastical thing imaginable or something as simple as a spoon, no matter how well it works the majority of the time those few bugs are what people will focus on exclusively. It's just human nature.

I'm sorry but I disagree, Sure a small number of people will yes, but the vast majority wouldn't I don't believe. But like I said before we can agree to disagree on that



I don't think you've ever owned a Rainbow Vac. It is arguably one of the best products out there, and you do have to completely assemble/disassemble it every time you use it.


Nope I haven't, haven't even heard of it, which proves my point. The reason I use the XB predominantly as my gaming platform and not my PC is because of convenience, the ability to fire it up and play within minutes, and be talking and playing with friends. I have a gaming Rig, its nothing crazy but I also play on that too, but Not only is that entire process on PC much more time consuming and complicated, most of my friends are on XB so I largely play single player type stuff on PC, just a different thing. MY point was that you cant get too upset when console gamers who are used to being able to just fire it up and play have to do all these extra steps, that's where I think you get a lot of people complaining, just my opinion on it.

Umer Ahmad
30-09-2015, 21:02
Never said it "cannot" do those things. I said (very carefully) that it "does not" do those things and that's my decision.

I favor simplicity, makes it more manageable and predictable for me. I shy from all-in-one solutions typically

Raven403
30-09-2015, 21:05
Never said it "cannot" do those things. I said (very carefully) that it "does not" do those things and that's my decision.

I favor simplicity, makes it more manageable and predictable for me. I shy from all-in-one solutions typically

which is why I hate the vision Xbox had initially for this system, I hated it being a "Multimedia Device" just make it a gaming platform, not a home theater receiver! But oh well its too late now, and I think the updatees to come under the new regime will correct and improve a lot of different things

/off topic

HenTheKing
30-09-2015, 21:12
I just did a 7 lap race in the v8 vantage gte?

I haven't bought the dlc. It definitely said gte and not gt4.

Raven403
30-09-2015, 21:17
I just did a 7 lap race in the v8 vantage gte?

I haven't bought the dlc. It definitely said gte and not gt4.

So instead of quietly enjoying free content you had to share it on the games forum? lol