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View Full Version : Equal tunes, assists/guides, etc. not being forced during Time Trial(s)



JSNFARRELL
22-09-2015, 00:45
I just got into the Time Trial event as of last night in an attempt to post a time with a fellow racer. (due to all the rumors of cheating in the past)
:confused: I noticed that the driver could select their own tunes, assists, guides/display settings, etc.

This (IMO) takes away from "driver skill" which, unless I missed the point, is the main focus in an Time Trial event.
* Time Trial enforces competition rules and elements (equal tunes, assists, guides/display elements, environment, etc.) in which a driver races against the clock to post his/her best time *

Of course that would mean a reset of the leaderboards so only times based on the new event rules/elements are posted.
- such boards can be viewed in-game or here http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=3427627286&vehicle=310900789 (note: hover your mouse over the icons under "assists")

ps.
-- also commented on the assist info for leaderboards lacking "Forced Real Assists: On/Off (in another thread... instead it results in all assists being "on" which is confusing)



* and to whomever posted a NEGATIVE Reputation Point stating: QUOTE "wannabe time trial policeman" - bite a curb troll! *
this is why we need a SMS/WMD ticket system... "wannabe sim racers" like you attack anyone whom questions the integrity of a simulator because you want it to be an arcade game... just like you attack public sim-lobbies

But hey since I (like any other sim racer) can't question integrity and suggest simulator elements regarding SMS Events without looking forward to ~90% of the racers whom bought PCARS as an arcade game jumping down my throat because I want a SIMULATOR to be a SIMULATOR or at least want SMS to offer official sim Events for us sim-racers... this is exactly why I refuse to buy another PCARS title.
- enjoy ANOTHER f#cking arcade game.. as if you you guys dont have enough already!

I give up... just close the thread already... we all know that is what happens when someone questions the integrity of PCARS or SMS/WMD


Remains Tailored to:
___________________________________
PCARS career = sim/arcade
PCARS mp = arcade
SMS events = arcade
eSports events = arcade

ttb57
22-09-2015, 01:01
Only prob for me there would be "equal tuning". Who chooses the setup? There are default setups that are pretty good out of the box but there are some that are woeful and hence "undriveable" for me. Also you would either need to set auto-clutch for all or exclude those that don't have a clutch. Far easier to filter the leaderboards to show those running the same as you. I never compare my times to those with all assists on or external view.

STEELJOCKEY
22-09-2015, 01:23
And whereas a default tune might suit some drivers with a particular driving style, those with a different style will need something else to compete equally

JSNFARRELL
22-09-2015, 01:30
Only prob for me there would be "equal tuning". Who chooses the setup? There are default setups that are pretty good out of the box but there are some that are woeful and hence "undriveable" for me. Also you would either need to set auto-clutch for all or exclude those that don't have a clutch. Far easier to filter the leaderboards to show those running the same as you. I never compare my times to those with all assists on or external view.

That would be based on what the game/devs can do... I wouldn't suggest something complicating such as "x" tune unless I knew it was possible
- Instead I would just say "force Default Tunes" but then some people use the steering tunes to improve gamepad use.

My main focus is simply fair competition... equal tunes (such as default), assists (such as forcing REAL or OFF), and not allowing any visual aids (like driving lines or etc.) So there is no question about the Event integrity.
- Drivers should compete based on their Skill (not "x" combination of tunes, assists, and visual aids)... after all is this not a "Community Assisted ... Racing Simulator"

Far as the little stuff - I could care less about the transmission/clutch setting as long as the tune itself (gearing, final drive, etc.) is equal for all drivers.

Guess I just expected these "Events" to be more "Official"
- If I participated in a real Time Trial Event (or any for that matter) I would expect rules, guidelines, etc
... in this case they would say "there is the rules, there is the car, there is the track, now post your best time... good luck"
and somewhere in there tuning, tampering with the car, or using x-Assist will result in invalidated lap times and/or disqualification.


And whereas a default tune might suit some drivers with a particular driving style, those with a different style will need something else to compete equally
^ which is where DRIVER SKILL comes in... "driving style" based on custom tunes is for competitive racing - regardless, a skilled driver adapts.
Everyone shouldnt be competing with drivers whom use assists, visual aids, custom tunes, etc. of their choice. Again that goes against it being an "Event" and focusing on "Driver Skill"
- After all this is a Time Trial (where we all share/use the same EXACT car)... not a Race (where each driver/crew can fine-tune their own car to gain a competitive edge)

All these Events should be recreating real-life Events... its a far more rewarding experience in the end.
- personally I would love to participate in all these events but only if they are simulated.


Anyway good chat... this is my 2cents... no further debates... throw a vote and reason so SMS can see where this goes quickly VS it getting off topic eventually and leading to lengthy discussions.
- the info/format regarding official Time Trial Events (or any other Events for PCARS) is on the web for those whom don't understand my main goal by posting this thread



Post your vote and back it with a comment (no arguments please)
:yes: = Vote FOR
:no: = Vote AGAINST

ahf74
22-09-2015, 02:19
I also think like you, already tired of always seeing the same at the top, I do not doubt that they are good runners but have a very good handle on the settings of the cars that makes them do some impossible time to match or approach .
One of them told the forum that he would spend his settings, I'm still waiting ...
Another of the strange things that I see, when an event they do not escalate positions appears, the will directly go from 1 position or 3rd place and there does not move anyone, I can spend days playing configurations and assists and not so I arrive at most in the first 10, with a difference of 3-5 seconds with the first.
I therefore support what you say, I would like to see those same players no assists, no configurations cars.
Slightly Mad Studios Ojala read this post, and keep in mind for future events.

Regards.

Sorry for my English, I hope you understand what I meant, use Google translator

bigsilverhotdog
22-09-2015, 05:17
I am wholeheartedly and totally against removing custom setups from time trial. The entire point of time trial is going fastest (not fastest with the exact same setup), and the engineering side of going faster (tuning the car for the track) is as important as actually driving the perfect lap. You cannot have one without the other. You can "pretend" that everybody driving the same setup is "fair" but that does not reflect race car engineering nor the challenge of going faster.

I would stop using time trial entirely if Default Setup Locked were implemented.

However I am fully in support of forcing historically accurate aids (i.e. TC only allowed if the car actually had TC) in time trial, as historically inaccurate aids renders those players times irreverent for comparison or 'leaderboard' purposes as those times are not legitimate.

Algo
22-09-2015, 05:18
You're right, you missed the point, time trial is about getting the lowest time in the most perfect conditions. So no locked anything.

If i had to propose something, i'd say let people watch the top 5 times from onboard (with telemetry) rather than only a ghost, and show the top 5 setup (this one is def. not gonna happen) :)

odemode
22-09-2015, 05:24
Maybe an icon just to show who has tuned and who has used default like the icons you get for using a wheel or assists

bigsilverhotdog
22-09-2015, 05:27
That is already implemented, just not within the game.

http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard

http://pcars.13ms.de/

Can easily view who used default and who used custom, and on the 2nd link (which draws from the official database) you can use "Advanced Filters" and then only show who used Default setups. This solves the OP problem and nobody is left out.

SchnelleBasis
22-09-2015, 05:30
Fixed setups. Huge no no. pCars, thats not Peoplesrepublic (of) China racing simulator.
Clearly vote no.

odemode
22-09-2015, 05:51
That is already implemented, just not within the game.

http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard

http://pcars.13ms.de/

Can easily view who used default and who used custom, and on the 2nd link (which draws from the official database) you can use "Advanced Filters" and then only show who used Default setups. This solves the OP problem and nobody is left out.

Is this console based also?

inthebagbud
22-09-2015, 06:10
Is this console based also?

Afraid not as the data is held within the xbox and is not accessible by 3rd party, which is how pc guys can see it.

Discussions are ongoing between sms /sony/ms at present to see if the data can be exported for 3rd party use , but even if agreed it is a while off and not sure if it would contain this type of data.

Thread is in the PS4 section

JSNFARRELL
22-09-2015, 06:26
Fixed setups. Huge no no. pCars, thats not Peoplesrepublic (of) China racing simulator.
Clearly vote no.

That makes no sense. "HA HA" - satisfied???
...
If anything it might even be offensive to someone whom gets what you just said.
Clearly "Simulator" is just a title because they been building this game and event structure around arcade-racing.
(allowing what would otherwise be considered "cheating" and result in disqualification in an official Time Trial event)
Which is why arcade-style MP sessions stay well populated vs the simulated ones. (therefore the events as well revolve around an arcade structure by popular vote)

Im for this being a simulator... have been. On that note I would expect this (titled as a simulator) to have OFFICIAL events/championships based on OFFICIAL rules/regulations (etc.)
But so far it looks as if all the votes have gone to the arcade racers or Forza fans (because custom tunes in Time Trials I would be expected in a simcade/non-sim title such as Forza which I have posted tuned times in)
...
so while what I am saying and my intentions are good -- I dont get what your redundant comment is hinting at but I assume you intended on it being offensive.

JSNFARRELL
22-09-2015, 06:33
You're right, you missed the point, time trial is about getting the lowest time in the most perfect conditions. So no locked anything.

If i had to propose something, i'd say let people watch the top 5 times from onboard (with telemetry) rather than only a ghost, and show the top 5 setup (this one is def. not gonna happen) :)

I said vote with a comment (backing your vote)... you along with some of these guys are looking for an argument instead of simply providing a backing statement.

What you described in an attempt to argue with my comment is how Assetto Corsa plays out (driver defines the perfect conditions for hot-lapping) which is why I dont play it.

So keep it clean...

Thanks

SchnelleBasis
22-09-2015, 07:50
JSNFARELL. How much time do you invest into a TT on average now that SMS are actively trying to close the loopholes for exploiters?

bigsilverhotdog
22-09-2015, 07:51
Neither of your last two posts make any sense to me. I understand that you seem to want something specific (no custom setups in time trial), but why are you unable to comprehend why anyone else would think otherwise? You also seem to just reject out of hand the arguments that back up these opposing viewpoints. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your intention, but the words of everyone who posted in this thread make sense to me except for yours.

e.g.


I said vote with a comment (backing your vote)... you along with some of these guys are looking for an argument instead of simply providing a backing statement

What does that even mean? I know that he clearly meant that enforcing Default Setups for time trial is a severe restriction on the freedom that is sim racing, something akin to what you'd find if PCARS was sourced from and administered by the PRC. If that's offensive then too bad: reality can be offensive. The idea of enforcing default setups in time trial is crazy and not even something that could ever be considered. It would invalidate one of the main tenets of racing, and indeed one of the foundations that this game is built upon: tuning race cars for the track.

PS: Arcade public events are populated because rookies and newbies all gravitate towards the only thing they know: public lobbies with easy mode settings. Sim events are all run privately, in groups or in leagues. You'd be crazy to run sim events in an open public lobby.

JSNFARRELL
22-09-2015, 08:41
JSNFARELL. How much time do you invest into a TT on average now that SMS are actively trying to close the loopholes for exploiters?

well as mentioned here or in another thread earlier - now that they worked out a lot of the cheating I started getting into it 2 nights ago (as of now my time) and was actually planning on just doing that all week until a fellow driver dropped the link to the leaderboard(s)... thats when I noticed the event was basically open to all configurations (assists, tunes, aids, etc.) and just like Assetto Corsa (which I couldnt put more than 35minutes into)
- I posted one time and turned away from it and just cant go back to it if you know what I mean.

... not a big fan of sims turned arcade. Let arcade be arcade and sims be sims (both have a place in my heart)
- when I first saw these "Events" I figured they were recreating (simulating) Official Events and not just some half-@$$ (for fun or popular vote) competition like the many we see on our MP server browsers.
At first I wanted to work on my driving but then I read about cheating... now this. (which is basically another form of cheating)
This could easily be the best racing simulator out there even if it is "tailored" for arcade racers.
But instead it resembles something out of Pimp-My-Ride: a purpose built track car with 50inch rims or formula truck towing a party-bus around an official race-track (everything is there but one thing defeats its overall purpose)

To give you an idea how much I would be into TT
- I would hotlap for hours non-stop daily on Foza3/4 for example just to climb the leaderboards (in which a set of rules regarding assists, etc. were met to validate lap times and post your ghost)
... Not much time went into the MP lobbies because of all the trolling and griefers ruining what could have been a good race.

Same goes for PCARS on the simulator side of things... I personally would put hours daily into it if they were based on real event regulations!
I even host my own DS (again as of the DS updates) which has 50+ races based closely on official event regulations and calendars scripted into the rotation because I can't stand the lack of sim lobbies and sim racers!
- if I wanted an arcade racing title I would play one (which I enjoy as well)... same goes for DCS World or any other SIMULATOR - I refuse to deal with a lack of real-world integrity in simulators.

Hell, why not just provide 2 leaderboards... one for those whom do whatever they want and one for those of us whom use PCARS strictly for Simulation (serious racers meeting official rules/regs/etc.)
- so far things are more tailored (if not completely) towards arcade racers when it comes to SMS events and whatnot... where is the stuff for us sim-guys??? (this is suppose to be tailored for both)

*like one guy said in a random forum about Forza6 vs PCARS when it comes to racing style and tuning...
Forza6 is for car enthusiast (pointing out those whom like to tune and race their way) while PCARS is for racing enthusiasts (those whom focus on driver skill and compete based on official rules/regulations)
... sounds about right to me. (not quoted)
If I wanted to throw bodykits, tune, and race by my own rules like NeedForSpeed I wouldnt be playing a Community Assisted Racing Simulator.
Maybe even take up the BurgerKing "have it your way" style gameplay Assetto Corsa offers.

And this isnt just me whom looks at simulators this way...
- 2 other guys I know looked this thread over and couldnt believe what they saw. Both of them looked to PCARS for simulation... one of them decided not to purchase it because the events are not based on official rules, regulations, etc. per discussion and the other dislikes the fact he is competing against someone on his favorite track in Formula whom along with many others posted top times with all the assists/aids ON!
Chances are he will also turn away from the SMS events because they are tailored to arcade-racers.
- even the first eSports Event structure resembles the Time Trial Event as you can see here:
http://play.eslgaming.com/projectcars/pc/projectcars-pc/open/1on1-kick-off-cup-3-europe/ (allowing driver-defined assists, etc.)

PCARS (Racing Simulator) inspired me to build my first cockpit, upgrade all my racing hardware, do unnecessary PC upgrades, etc. in preparation of its release... I've even sent out gaming rigs, TrackIR units, and wheels to people... I have a spare PC copy of PCARS from a 2 copy pre-order just to share.
- So my time, money, etc is invested into this as a simulator.


Neither of your last two posts make any sense to me. I understand that you seem to want something specific (no custom setups in time trial), but why are you unable to comprehend why anyone else would think otherwise? You also seem to just reject out of hand the arguments that back up these opposing viewpoints. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your intention, but the words of everyone who posted in this thread make sense to me except for yours.

e.g.



What does that even mean? I know that he clearly meant that enforcing Default Setups for time trial is a severe restriction on the freedom that is sim racing, something akin to what you'd find if PCARS was sourced from and administered by the PRC. If that's offensive then too bad: reality can be offensive. The idea of enforcing default setups in time trial is crazy and not even something that could ever be considered. It would invalidate one of the main tenets of racing, and indeed one of the foundations that this game is built upon: tuning race cars for the track.

PS: Arcade public events are populated because rookies and newbies all gravitate towards the only thing they know: public lobbies with easy mode settings. Sim events are all run privately, in groups or in leagues. You'd be crazy to run sim events in an open public lobby.

I only combat those whom argue or intend to offend others with rude comments as you attempted earlier... while reading only what you want to instead of the clear point I made that everyone else is able to see.
Now please move along... this isnt a thread for such crap. I cant even read your whole message because I know it is just wasting my time...

ps. I shouldnt have to hunt down leagues/clans/groups to experience the SIM elements/aspect of a Racing SIMULATOR
- and DS supports kicking/banning anyone from any device with a browser plus all my tracks/cars/params are hard-coded to insure no "host" can mess with it. (in case you dont follow DS updates)

... based on your insulting/offensive comments and thread reply timing I assume you are the troll I thank for the neg rep point/comment?

Algo
22-09-2015, 11:18
I said vote with a comment (backing your vote)... you along with some of these guys are looking for an argument instead of simply providing a backing statement.

What you described in an attempt to argue with my comment is how Assetto Corsa plays out (driver defines the perfect conditions for hot-lapping) which is why I dont play it.

So keep it clean...

Thanks

I voted :no: no :no: with my comment. I thought it was pretty clear. I really don't care to argue with you

JSNFARRELL
22-09-2015, 11:47
I voted :no: no :no: with my comment. I thought it was pretty clear. I really don't care to argue with you

You're right, you missed the point, time trial is about getting the lowest time in the most perfect conditions.

Hey man,
You already started... it was I whom made it clear this wasn't an argument and asked you and the offensive guy to stop when you started... so stop trying to make me out as the bad guy here and after your argument I read your comment backing the vote...
- I wouldnt be here discussing this if the d#mn game was a SIMULATOR as the f#cking title and every advertisement stated.

sorry man... these threads never end well... why they are still the method of going about requesting features or reporting bugs is beyond me.
This is proof they just do not work... this all boils down to the message getting to the devs in the end.

bigsilverhotdog
22-09-2015, 12:07
Stop being rude with your vote before he quits supporting a simulator that he hates!

A sad trombone seems appropriate at this point. (http://www.sadtrombone.com)

C'est la vie, more hotlaps for me... :)

JSNFARRELL
22-09-2015, 12:30
Stop being rude with your vote before he quits supporting a simulator that he hates!

A sad trombone seems appropriate at this point. (http://www.sadtrombone.com)

C'est la vie, more hotlaps for me... :)

Clearly you cant see that I am NOT giving everyone whom down-votes a hard time... only you for trolling my thread and the other guy for slightly arguing which I wasnt ranting about... both of which you two was asked not to do... could care less about about the other guy tho - he didnt do anything wrong and I only warned him to just put it out there without making an argument... but you on the other hand . . .

Seeing how you will get a slap on the hand for treating people like trash, starting sh!t in threads, and posting trolling reputation points because you are a "WMD Member" = go f#ck yourself troll
... BTW it looks like your avatar has stretch-throat from all that WMD d!ck you been sucking.
thats how you talk sh!t

so where is the moderator that sets you straight for all these offensive comments, trolling replies, trolling rep points, etc... anyone... no?... typical day in the dealing with WMD Trolls in the ProjectCARS forums.
... wait... sure one will be all over me eventually.

bigsilverhotdog
22-09-2015, 12:41
As recommended by Mrs. Hotdog when she read what you just wrote...

http://i.imgur.com/Jm6nTWN.jpg

Bealdor
22-09-2015, 12:44
Wow that escalated quickly!
This here is the perfect ecample that aggressive/confrontational attitude will lead you nowhere, no matter if you do have a valid point or not.

Closed.