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Niborius
23-09-2015, 10:32
Hi guys, new user here.

I was wondering if the physics of the game are going to be fixed in the future. I know the game was made to simulate driving and not crashing, but sometimes crashes are unavoidable and sometimes the AI crashes themselves.
However, when it happens, a flying car gets pushed straight back to the ground as if the gravity is like 300%.

What are the plans for this, if any?

macmac__
23-09-2015, 10:41
It's a feature to prevent cars flying off the world in 400mph or so crashes. :)

E: What Franco said below :) IMO the extra flying drag shouldn't exist, I'd take flying out of the world/to strange places as smaller bad. But I do understand the dev pov to reduce "glitched" behaviour, flying is after all not so wanted practice in track racing.

Franco Ferrari
23-09-2015, 10:45
Hi guys, new user here.

I was wondering if the physics of the game are going to be fixed in the future. I know the game was made to simulate driving and not crashing, but sometimes crashes are unavoidable and sometimes the AI crashes themselves.
However, when it happens, a flying car gets pushed straight back to the ground as if the gravity is like 300%.

What are the plans for this, if any?



As you have correctly noticed, in-air behavior is not good ATM and the "pull-down effect" tales place as soon as the car leaves the ground.
And it's a "canned" parameter put in place to prevent worse problems, there's no denying about this.

As we speak, however, changes are currently being tested in the development of pCARS2, where this parameter was simply disabled and the car now acts naturally when "flying".
I'm not sure though if there are plans to adopt this solution for pCARS1 anytime soon...
But never say never.
For example see the improvements in the rain on the windscreen effects, developed for pCARS2 and quickly transferred to pCARS1 in a patch.

Shinzah
23-09-2015, 10:55
For example see the improvements in the rain on the windscreen effects, developed for pCARS2 and quickly transferred to pCARS1 in a patch.

Even better rain? You're spoiling us with pcars2 secrets.

c172fccc
23-09-2015, 11:01
Even better rain? You're spoiling us with pcars2 secrets.

No, he's talking about how pcars 2 got the rain improvement before pcars 1 with patch 3.0. There is no "even better rain".

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-09-2015, 11:06
the "pull-down effect" tales place as soon as the car leaves the ground.Did they change it? For me it has always kicked in once the car reaches it's zenith, as soon as the vertical speed goes to 0.

Franco Ferrari
23-09-2015, 11:18
Did they change it? For me it has always kicked in once the car reaches it's zenith, as soon as the vertical speed goes to 0.



No. It works the way you say. I was not explaining myself correctly.

mihalo
23-09-2015, 11:43
No gravity at all ;)

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/mihaloo/video/9316894

Shinzah
23-09-2015, 11:52
No gravity at all ;)

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/mihaloo/video/9316894


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XswuFtW1bco

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-where-were-going-we-dont-need-roads.png

Franco Ferrari
23-09-2015, 12:31
https://youtu.be/zsJpUCWfyPE?t=1m23s

Niborius
23-09-2015, 14:29
As you have correctly noticed, in-air behavior is not good ATM and the "pull-down effect" tales place as soon as the car leaves the ground.
And it's a "canned" parameter put in place to prevent worse problems, there's no denying about this.

As we speak, however, changes are currently being tested in the development of pCARS2, where this parameter was simply disabled and the car now acts naturally when "flying".
I'm not sure though if there are plans to adopt this solution for pCARS1 anytime soon...
But never say never.
For example see the improvements in the rain on the windscreen effects, developed for pCARS2 and quickly transferred to pCARS1 in a patch.

So basically they implemented this pull-down effect to avoid a bug with flying cars? How come they couldn't find the source of this problem?
I hope they will develop this fix you're talking about for Project Cars 1 as well.

Thanks for the info!

Shinzah
23-09-2015, 14:37
So basically they implemented this pull-down effect to avoid a bug with flying cars? How come they couldn't find the source of this problem?
I hope they will develop this fix you're talking about for Project Cars 1 as well.

Thanks for the info!

There is no source of the problem. The physics engine is designed around making cars drive properly upon a surface and engage properly with the intended atmospheric conditions while driving properly on the surface.

The effects of air density, wind resistance, aerial velocity, aerial impacts and momentum while off the ground weren't really the focus of the simulation. The reason why cars freak out when in huge crashes is simply because there never was anything to keep them from freaking out and it would be slightly difficult to code all of this in a reasonable amount of time. It's not a 'bug' if it never really was supported in the first place. The same thing happens in many, many other racing games. That's why in some (most) you can't even roll the cars at all.

c172fccc
23-09-2015, 14:46
So basically they implemented this pull-down effect to avoid a bug with flying cars? How come they couldn't find the source of this problem?
I hope they will develop this fix you're talking about for Project Cars 1 as well.

Thanks for the info!

There is nothing to fix. The current collision system is just not good enough to handle hard collisions and there is a risk for the car to be launched out of the map. They implemented the pulldown effect to minimize the problem. To "fix" it, a new (better and improved) collision system is needed, something that (probably) won't happen for pcars 1.

Vennt
23-09-2015, 15:03
There is nothing to fix. The current collision system is just not good enough to handle hard collisions and there is a risk for the car to be launched out of the map. They implemented the pulldown effect to minimize the problem. To "fix" it, a new (better and improved) collision system is needed, something that (probably) won't happen for pcars 1.

To be accurate, it's not a issue with collisions, it's an issue of whether or not you put a priority on the simulation of a cars characteristics through the air when not in contact with the ground.

For a racing sim that is trying to simulate the physics of driving on the ground, aerial simulation is not, nor should it be, a high priority and has to take a back seat, this is why all sims use fudged physics for crashes etc, including iRacing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnf72bua12Q)etc.

The models used in simulations often have edge cases where the physic engine shows it's limitations, in racing games it's aerobatics that are often this edge case.

As well as the development priority, there is the simple fact that there is no hardware currently out there (nor on the horizon) that can simulate all aspects of the real world in the way that some gamers want, and even if there was there is little to suggest that there has been any extensive work done on an overarching simulation model that covers the physics of driving, crashing, and flying etc. in one unified model.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-09-2015, 15:58
Personally, I'd rather have seen a solution that at first would probably have appeared too blatantly "gamey", but IMO would have been a better overall solution: Put a strict maximum height above the track where the car is allowed to go, and teleport it trackside if it exceeds this height. Just a blatant IF carHeightAboveTrack >= maxAllowedHeightAboveTrack THEN teleport(). Or heck, an invisible "roof" for the whole track.

Reasoning is that if you fly high enough that you'd encounter this limit, you'd already most likely have run into a situation that was buggy (like a freak collision issue) and settling it down via this way wouldn't be that bad in the scheme of things, assuming it's not set too low obviously. The current solution has the issue that it doesn't limit the height the car can reach (the pull-down only occurs at the zenith) but pulls the car down VICIOUSLY, which can lead to problems. For example with some road cars I get a bit of air when entering Flugplatz on Nords. The car goes up, is slammed down, and then proceeds to bounce off of the track, completely out of control. Without the exaggerated pull-down the landing would be much smoother, now the only thing I can really do is drive slower so that I don't jump.