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View Full Version : To Windows 10, or not to windows 10?



tclancey
25-09-2015, 19:59
This is really a 2 part question, of which only one part relates to Pcars.

1. Putting all the confusing, stupid, problematic, idiotic and pathetic problems with windows 10 aside, will there be much point in upgrading for games? I currently play Pcars on the Xbone, I may switch to the PC at some time because it will be easier trying to find a wheel to suit my needs, will Windows 10 give any additional benefits over Windows 7? I know with 10 I'll be able to stream/port games from my Xbone to my PC, what a bloody hideous idea fraught with technical issues that is!!!

2. I'm also getting so damn fed up with Microsoft shite being forced down my neck, especially moving to a monthly subscription service in 11 months time, Oh YES! I'm seriously considering moving to Linux as an OS, most of what I do on a PC is kind of business based so mega gaming graphics aren't really an issue. Some pretty heavy duty games are being released on Linux these days, will Pcars ever be one of them? (I can imagine smoke coming out of developers ears!)

centurian
25-09-2015, 21:16
No problems moving to Windows 10. I've been using it for almost year now and am on Build 10547 which is due for an update a couple of more times before release to the public who are on Build 10240.
The only problem you may discover is compatible video drivers for Windows 10 to fully appreciate the change from any other Windows version.
nVidea seem to have problems at the moment in providing a good stable Windows experience. Particularly if you are using SLI.

I personally don't use SLI and have had no problems since I removed my 2nd GTX 780 and run everything on a single GPU.
SLI is more trouble than its benefit in terms of addition FPS.

adi518
25-09-2015, 21:24
^ Not sure why you would advise against SLI. I'd ignore this advice completely because SLI works flawlessly out of the box since Nvidia took special care of it when collaborating with WMD and made sure their drivers include an SLI profile designed specifically for Project Cars. That was quite some time ago actually. It keeps things @ 60-fps on those harsh moments, where one GPU simply doesn't cut it. The only thing you have to do to complete your SLI setup is turn On V-sync in the graphics menu, but with G-sync monitors we may not even need that soon.

Nelson Pacheco
25-09-2015, 21:35
i wont change from W7

demerzel
25-09-2015, 21:36
W10 here. Got nice fps boost compared w8.1

Roger Prynne
25-09-2015, 21:37
No problems with Win 10 and pCARS for me.
Also the latest NVIDIA drivers work great.
After I updated to Win 10 I gained about 15% in pCARS.

Umer Ahmad
25-09-2015, 21:45
^ Not sure why you would advise against SLI. I'd ignore this advice completely because SLI works flawlessly out of the box since Nvidia took special care of it when collaborating with WMD and made sure their drivers include an SLI profile designed specifically for Project Cars. That was quite some time ago actually. It keeps things @ 60-fps on those harsh moments, where one GPU simply doesn't cut it. The only thing you have to do to complete your SLI setup is turn On V-sync in the graphics menu, but with G-sync monitors we may not even need that soon.

multi-gpu only needed for multi-display setups. Or 4K resolution.

If you are 1080/1440 single screen just get a single 970 or 980 and dont bother with Alternate Frame Rendring SLI/Xfire multi-gpu stuff. Even the render coders hate it. ;)

I'm also on the fence with the win7->win10 upgrade. It's my gaming rig but also my wife's workstation and she wil chop off my head and balls if i break anything especially Citrix.

John Hargreaves
25-09-2015, 21:47
I had big problems with sound, both on board and the Asus soundcard, only managed to sort it with some third party drivers, and I also get some issues with win10 kind of losing my g25 now and again. On the whole it's pretty good though as an OS.

Jezza819
25-09-2015, 21:56
multi-gpu only needed for multi-display setups. Or 4K resolution.

If you are 1080/1440 single screen just get a single 970 or 980 and dont bother with Alternate Frame Rendring SLI/Xfire multi-gpu stuff. Even the render coders hate it. ;)

I'm also on the fence with the win7->win10 upgrade. It's my gaming rig but also my wife's workstation and she wil chop off my head and balls if i break anything especially Citrix.

I'm glad you brought that up. I've been considering a 4k monitor since they are fairly reasonable in price but he advised against it because there wasn't that much out there right now being shown in that resolution. Well there wasn't that much in 1080p when it first came out either but look at it now. He said that not every computer out there is capable of supporting 4k resolution

I don't game on my laptop but it's basically my desktop. I have a 24" external monitor. I'm currently running Windows 7 and like you have been on the fence about updating because I don't know if I'm capable of doing the switch without losing everything or something critical. Would you say that you would really need, or it would be a good idea, to update to Windows 10 for 4k resolution?

PC49NZ
25-09-2015, 22:39
I had W7, changed to W10 no problem with P/Cars except I couldn't get Logi-Profiler to come up, which was a real nuisance. I made some inquiries on this issue and found about 50% could or couldn't get it. Must be fair here to Logitech, their help on this issue was exceptional. I actually changed back to W7 for an entirely different reason.

TMoney
25-09-2015, 22:42
Been wondering the same thing and have been hesitant on installing my reserved upgrade. When I did this from 8 to 8.1 I had all sorts of problems with hardware and drivers in the beginning. G25 was all wacked out, sound card (Creative X-Fi PCIE) was all screwy, AC kept crashing even after a reinstall (that one's not a big deal since I rarely play it :)), etc. I figured it would be smart to wait it out for a little while since things are going just fine for me atm.

Side note, does anyone have gaming benchmark comparisons with windows 8/8.1 vs 10, particularly in pCARS? A considerable FPS boost might just push me over the edge.

gti
25-09-2015, 22:59
Feeling like posting something cause it is Friday :-P
For my low end PC my FPS jumped about 15-20% when going from w8.1 to w10.
And if you have any doubt you can just use a spare drive or even a fast USB3.0 stick (if PC supports it) and install w10 in there as the boot drive. You can test it out and do the real upgrade/change later when you are happy with w10. If not just unplug and replug the old boot drive back in.

TMoney
25-09-2015, 23:05
But the downloaded reserved upgrade we get isn't a full install right? I figured it would just overwrite 8.1 and not actually do a clean install.

gti
25-09-2015, 23:24
But the downloaded reserved upgrade we get isn't a full install right? I figured it would just overwrite 8.1 and not actually do a clean install.

This I can give more input.
The free upgrade from W7-SP1 or W8.1 to W10 requires you to have an existing genuine (verify that with MS's page is recommended prior just to make sure) install of windows running.
During the upgrade (whether reserved or not does not matter; you can download the installation to ISO/USB drive media right now from MS anytime from anywhere; and just run it to start the upgrade process) => you have the option to retain all your application/Data OR wipe out everything first for the upgrade. Choosing the later option is the same as a clean install. This I am 99.99% sure based on my many research and having personally upgraded 5+ PC (but I have not searched for MS's official words on this.
Even though if you are still not convinced and want a REALLY clean (aka Format the drive) install you can do that. After your upgrade is done (retain data or not) just make sure your windows 10 is still activated which it should. Then your activation status is stored in MS's server. You can then format your boot drive anyway you like and you can reinstall W10 from scratch. As long as your hardware remains the same the new installation will be checked against MS's server when you goes online (required to be online) and it will activate you new installs. This is 100% verified and works as intended.

Now back to my proposed test W10 before you actually upgrade your PC. You just install W10 onto a new spare drive (do not enter any key/etc.) and W10 will run in trial mode. Good enough for you to test it out.
Hope it helps.

kingsti
25-09-2015, 23:25
Side note, does anyone have gaming benchmark comparisons with windows 8/8.1 vs 10, particularly in pCARS? A considerable FPS boost might just push me over the edge.

I didn't record the numbers, but a couple of months ago, I wanted to move to Windows 10 because I'd heard performance was much better for Pcars. I installed Windows 10 on a virtual hard drive on an SSD for dual boot. The first benchmarks seemed to suggest that Windows 10 was about 25% faster, but then I checked all the options in the Nvidia control panel and set them identically on both O/S. At that point the FPS was identical so I've stayed with Windows 8.

TMoney
25-09-2015, 23:35
Thanks for the input gti. Couple questions if you would be so kind.

So to clarify I can DL 10 from MS onto a USB drive, format my SSD, and install from the USB drive as a fresh install? That's what I was hoping to do anyway. Rather go clean instead of multiple upgrades originating from 8.

I've actually been thinking about a new build lately. Wonder if it would be best not to activate 10 until I decide if I'm going to be running on a different motherboard/chipset or does that not matter? I know there's a limit for the license just not sure if you're allowed to change major hardware once or not. And since I'm assuming you use your old windows key to activate it might not even matter about waiting or not since MS already has my PC info stored? Isn't the trial limited like 30 days or something? Thanks again.

gti
26-09-2015, 00:20
Thanks for the input gti. Couple questions if you would be so kind.

So to clarify I can DL 10 from MS onto a USB drive, format my SSD, and install from the USB drive as a fresh install? That's what I was hoping to do anyway. Rather go clean instead of multiple upgrades originating from 8.

=> yes. Go here and get/run that tool ... choose to create installation media and you can get it onto your USB stick.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
BUT if you just do a fresh install like this onto your formatted SSD it is NOT an upgrade ... so it will just run in trial mode ... you get the watermarks and reminder that you have to activate your windows within 30 days, etc.


I've actually been thinking about a new build lately. Wonder if it would be best not to activate 10 until I decide if I'm going to be running on a different motherboard/chipset or does that not matter? I know there's a limit for the license just not sure if you're allowed to change major hardware once or not. And since I'm assuming you use your old windows key to activate it might not even matter about waiting or not since MS already has my PC info stored? Isn't the trial limited like 30 days or something? Thanks again.

=> You can just do the new build and runs w10 in trial mode to see how it runs. Keep in mind if you have an OEM license for your W7/w8.1 on your existing PC it cannot transfer to another PC. If you have a retail W7/W8.1 license then you can use that to install to new PC anytime as long as you do not keep your old PC activated at the same time (so you still have a retail license after the upgrade and can move it around).

I believe the motherboard definitely needs to be the same to be considered the same hardware. I think hard drive / video card change is OK to keep your W10 activated after the change.
You still have 1 years from 7/29/2015 to get the free upgrade. So no rush on that.

TMoney
26-09-2015, 01:35
Thanks. I do have a retail version of Win 8 so no issue there. Now that I think of it, if you purchased a retail copy aren't you allowed to use it on as many computers as you'd like as long as it's installed on 1 PC at a time? Hopefully I won't have an issue when I swap to a new PC build.

Umer Ahmad
26-09-2015, 01:48
I'm glad you brought that up. I've been considering a 4k monitor since they are fairly reasonable in price but he advised against it because there wasn't that much out there right now being shown in that resolution. Well there wasn't that much in 1080p when it first came out either but look at it now. He said that not every computer out there is capable of supporting 4k resolution

I don't game on my laptop but it's basically my desktop. I have a 24" external monitor. I'm currently running Windows 7 and like you have been on the fence about updating because I don't know if I'm capable of doing the switch without losing everything or something critical. Would you say that you would really need, or it would be a good idea, to update to Windows 10 for 4k resolution?

Careful, todays 4k monitors can only do that in 30fps. If you want 60fps+ they drop down to 1080. Caveat emptor.

gti
26-09-2015, 02:47
Thanks. I do have a retail version of Win 8 so no issue there. Now that I think of it, if you purchased a retail copy aren't you allowed to use it on as many computers as you'd like as long as it's installed on 1 PC at a time? Hopefully I won't have an issue when I swap to a new PC build.

Yes you are good there with your retail license. That is what I meant by move it around if you have retail license.

Keithb23
26-09-2015, 04:49
Just a quick reminder to all, you must upgrade to windows 10 and activate it before doing a clean install. You cannot simply wipe your hd and do a clean install expecting to use your serial number from your windows 7/8 install cd. If you do that you will have to shell out again for a new license. The only free way to get windows 10 is to upgrade your current version first. A nice bonus is that if you wish to change from 32bit to 64bit you can do that after you have upgraded and activated windows 10. Once windows 10 is activated you can do as the previous person said and do a completely new install in either 32 or 64 bit, whichever floats your boat. I did this on two separate computers at home and they are both running flawlessly and PCars runs great on both machines. No issues at all.

Edit:
You can do a new pc build as long as you install your retail copy of windows 7/8 to your new machine first, and then upgrade to windows 10. As I said above, the only free way is the upgrade path first.

Hope this helps!

LaserBeam
26-09-2015, 05:36
:cool:
Nice 1. Activate 1st.
I didn't know that. Glad i do.

Jezza819
26-09-2015, 20:43
Careful, todays 4k monitors can only do that in 30fps. If you want 60fps+ they drop down to 1080. Caveat emptor.

I'm sorry, I'm not very computer literate so I'm not following you. Can't do what?

TMoney
27-09-2015, 02:15
Thanks Keith glad you posted that.

But if I decide to do a new build, I can first install and activate 10 on my current PC, download and save it to a USB and then do a fresh install on the new build on a formatted drive? Either way it sounds like I might as well install it on my current PC no matter what.

N0body Of The Goat
27-09-2015, 10:22
Just come across this tip and the link they gave to disable it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU6DFUgBE4g

Could help pCARS users like me with old CPUs, I've only just disabled GVR, too early to draw conclusions.

DragonSyr
27-09-2015, 11:19
new os ,there will be enough problems in transition
give another 5 months for developement to 3d party software and microsoft . After that the problems will be minimal.
do not be in a hurry.

Keithb23
27-09-2015, 17:11
Thanks Keith glad you posted that.

But if I decide to do a new build, I can first install and activate 10 on my current PC, download and save it to a USB and then do a fresh install on the new build on a formatted drive? Either way it sounds like I might as well install it on my current PC no matter what.

You don't need to bother saving your old install unless you want to keep data you already have. A better path would be to save only the data you want to keep and do a clean install on your new pc with your boxed copy of windows 7/8 and upgrade from there, then load your save data after that.. The reason behind this is you won't be starting a new build with a registry that is cluttered up with a ton of references from a different pc.

I always advise against transferring an os from an old pc to a new pc. Yes, it's more convenient in some ways, but you will also more than likely transfer old problems to your new build as well. Yes it's a pain to download and install software again, but you will end up with a machine that runs much more crisply and efficiently.

mister dog
27-09-2015, 17:44
Very useful info in this thread, thank you.
I'll wait it out a bit more as i saw the deadline is 07/2016.

TMoney
27-09-2015, 18:35
You don't need to bother saving your old install unless you want to keep data you already have. A better path would be to save only the data you want to keep and do a clean install on your new pc with your boxed copy of windows 7/8 and upgrade from there, then load your save data after that.. The reason behind this is you won't be starting a new build with a registry that is cluttered up with a ton of references from a different pc.

I always advise against transferring an os from an old pc to a new pc. Yes, it's more convenient in some ways, but you will also more than likely transfer old problems to your new build as well. Yes it's a pain to download and install software again, but you will end up with a machine that runs much more crisply and efficiently.

I meant activate windows 10 now, then download the win10 install onto a usb, build my new pc, format the drive and use the downloaded win10 usb to do a fresh install. Any backup I have is all on a storage drive. OS will go on a freshly formatted ssd.

Keithb23
27-09-2015, 20:55
Sounds good

Ryzza5
28-09-2015, 03:42
No problems upgrading the gaming PC to Windows 10, as I basically treat it as a console. At this point in time I'm sticking with Windows 7 for my main PC where I do all my work and host a variety of services.

aerchak
28-09-2015, 14:48
You should probably upgrade to Windows 10 regardless of what you're using your machine for.

Even Visual Studio runs better on it. It's pretty terrific.

Zanzibar
28-09-2015, 17:33
Zero problems since upgrading. Just make sure you're aware of the new privacy settings.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-violates-your-privacy-by-default-heres-how-you-can-protect-yourself/

gelfie
29-09-2015, 03:58
Remember, everyone who says something nice about windows 10 is only doing so because men in dark shades from Redmond are watching everything they do.

Keithb23
29-09-2015, 06:01
Pffft!

DragonSyr
29-09-2015, 17:08
as speak for privacy and win 10

One of the biggest worries, though, is Microsoft's policy on disclosing or sharing your personal information. The following is an excerpt from the privacy policy:

"We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services."

Roger Prynne
29-09-2015, 17:13
Just don't sign in with a MS account.
Make a local account instead.

DragonSyr
29-09-2015, 17:19
and Stop Cortana from spying on you......
Head to "Speech, inking & typing" and click through to "Stop getting to know me." This will allow you to turn off Cortana and dictation.

edit: here is a tweaker for those who care about privacy http://www.thewindowsclub.com/ultimate-windows-tweaker-4-windows-10

tonaz
12-10-2015, 00:26
I cannot save in PCars since i've updated to win10... meh...
it gives me an error after a race, saying it cannot save the game.

MISTER WU
12-10-2015, 03:29
Why dont you people just download ShutUp10, it does all this and more if people are worried about MS gathering information.
Thing that makes me laugh is apple and google have been doing this along with NSA, CGHQ and the 5 eyes for years anyway, also they have been doing this at either the router (IPX) or they use a prism to beam light in 2 directions like they did with AT&T.
Anyway, with quantum computational computers coming along in terms of power, encryption will be easily broken as FLOPS are done in less times, think of quantum computation as every floating point existing at any one time!!


Its because MS have started doing the same thing that they are the devil now? LOL please.

SeeNoWeevil
12-10-2015, 11:46
If you use a DS4 pad (InputMapper/DS4Windows), you'll have problems with it in Win10 but there are workarounds and a fix on the way.

creepyd
12-10-2015, 12:17
Win10 gave me a nice FPS boost and was a flawless and easy upgrade.
Can't complain.

tonaz
12-10-2015, 18:40
after win10 update i got ingame "FAILED TO SAVE DATA."...
what is happening?

Stevesixty7
12-10-2015, 20:11
I'm currently using Win 7 on my main PC, which I like. Windows versions are usually good following bad, so which is Win 10? What is the general consensus?

noobkill
12-10-2015, 20:16
Good :) I have upgraded 2 PC's to Windows 10 and so far i'm really happy.