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View Full Version : 1.12's Formula A at Sakitto GP?? How is this possible??



shredspillers
28-09-2015, 11:54
I 've been racing over 14,000 miles and was in top ten for many months. Then with in the past week there's been alot of new lap records set like 3 are in the 13's and one thats in the 1.12's.

It seems to me like there's something goin on here it just seems strange that there's been so many new times in the 13's, 14's and the 15's. I can see how some are in the 14's because a few of my good friends are in the 14's but the 12's are just way to unrealistic IMO.

Maybe there's some new way to cut the track or what ever it is??

But 1.12's ??? come on ?? that's just BS!!

ports
28-09-2015, 11:59
I 've been racing over 14,000 miles and was in top ten for many months. Then with in the past week there's been alot of new lap records set like 3 are in the 13's and one thats in the 1.12's.

It seems to me like there's something goin on here it just seems strange that there's been so many new times in the 13's, 14's and the 15's. I can see how some are in the 14's because a few of my good friends are in the 14's but the 12's are just way to unrealistic IMO.

Maybe there's some new way to cut the track or what ever it is??

But 1.12's ??? come on ?? that's just BS!!

I think that track and car was used for the community challenge so the Aliens come out to play :) the community challenge leaderboard times also transfer to the normal leaderboards as well for some reason.

Deadzone
28-09-2015, 11:59
Because it's a current community event and loads more people are setting competitive times while it's running.

cluck
28-09-2015, 12:00
What do their ghosts show? That's the first way to tell if a lap is 'legit' :).

And unless you are a driving god, always be prepared to accept that there are people faster than you. Many (too many to count) a time I have looked at a laptime and thought "how the hell?" but by perseverance, I can normally get within shouting distance. The rest, that's down to skill, practice and maybe a slightly better setup.

maddogmorag
28-09-2015, 12:12
I think the lap times in the 1:12 are not legit.

cluck
28-09-2015, 12:15
I think the lap times in the 1:12 are not legit.why? Do the ghosts show excessive cutting or other suspicious behaviour?

It is not good enough to simply say "1m12 is not legit" without providing either reasoning or evidence. If it's just because it's faster than your fastest time, then I'm sorry to say that it isn't a good enough reason (see my previous post :)).

And before anybody asks, I haven't set a time at Sakitto in the FA - in fact, I'm not sure I've set a time at all in the FA - so I am trying to look at this as a neutral bystander :).

Roger Prynne
28-09-2015, 12:20
Yeah please check the Ghosts for any cut tracks before you jump to conclusions..... and if you find any abnormalities please report them.... thanks.

havocc
28-09-2015, 12:20
i'm #147 with 1.20.3 and is my best ranking in community events so far, i'm quite good with FA though i admit i can't do more than 5-6 hotlaps without getting tired (and i don't use a wheel), btw there are some points where you can go wide and get a valid lap, degner 1 and 2 and spoon come to mind...

This is my lap, look how wide you can go at 0.35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ufBeuRRZ0

Sankyo
28-09-2015, 12:26
Please don't overestimate your judgment of your own driving skills :) Like Cluck stated above, I always thought I was a pretty decent driver/hotlapper, until I saw people being much faster. Then with a lot more practice and trying new things I often found that I could be a lot quicker indeed, when I first thought I was pushing to the limit everywhere.

As the others already said, check out the ghost and see if there's any cutting or warping going on. If the ghost is just faster than you, you need to improve :)

maddogmorag
28-09-2015, 12:36
why? Do the ghosts show excessive cutting or other suspicious behaviour?

It is not good enough to simply say "1m12 is not legit" without providing either reasoning or evidence. If it's just because it's faster than your fastest time, then I'm sorry to say that it isn't a good enough reason (see my previous post :)).

And before anybody asks, I haven't set a time at Sakitto in the FA - in fact, I'm not sure I've set a time at all in the FA - so I am trying to look at this as a neutral bystander :).

Well I think you need to do some laps in the FA at Sakitto so you can have a better appreciation of the lap times being posted.

Vennt
28-09-2015, 12:44
Project CARS needs it's own version of GPLRank (http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/php-pub/gplrank.php) :D

I loved GPLRank, as well as the target of going 'negative' to beat DK's times, it always gave you a good benchmark for your performance against other drivers.

Of course that would require Ian Bell or someone else at SMS to set a benchmark time for all cars on all tracks, that might be a bit of an ask. :P

cluck
28-09-2015, 12:47
Well I think you need to do some laps in the FA at Sakitto so you can have a better appreciation of the lap times being posted.That will prove absolutely nothing except that I'm not as quick as the quickest guys :).

Knightfall
28-09-2015, 13:23
Well I think you need to do some laps in the FA at Sakitto so you can have a better appreciation of the lap times being posted.

Where is the link to the video of your hotlap? I couldn't find it anywhere...

maddogmorag
28-09-2015, 13:35
Where is the link to the video of your hotlap? I couldn't find it anywhere...

I never said I had a link to a hotlap.

Knightfall
28-09-2015, 14:14
I think the lap times in the 1:12 are not legit.

I think you should have a video ready before saying someone's lap isn't legit.


I never said I had a link to a hotlap.

Sorry, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.


Well I think you need to do some laps in the FA at Sakitto so you can have a better appreciation of the lap times being posted.

Again, video...

maddogmorag
28-09-2015, 14:24
I think you should have a video ready before saying someone's lap isn't legit.



Sorry, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.



Again, video...

Sorry. I thought I could post on here without having a link to a hot lap or some sort of video. I did not know it was a pre requisite.

Liquid7394
28-09-2015, 14:44
If you're going to claim others lap times aren't legit then at least have something to backup your claim.

Vennt
28-09-2015, 14:47
Being down by 2 seconds at Sakitto GP is nothing really.

Do the sums:

15 turns and 3 straights, so 18 "segments".

2000ms divided by 18 "segments" is 110ms per segment difference, so just over a tenth of a second.

Lose a tenth on each turn and straight, and you are two seconds down over a lap, and as anyone knows, losing a tenth is easily done, one bad corner entry, or compromised corner exit can easily cost you upwards of six tenths to a second on it's own, and even if it's not a big mistake costing you, the smaller ones add up significantly over a lap.

Most times being down on laptime compared to aliens isn't set-ups, or cheats, or anything like that, it's simply a better understanding and control of the basics on their part, ideal line into and out of the corner, hitting apexs properly and not being on the power until the apex.

Knightfall
28-09-2015, 14:48
Sorry. I thought I could post on here without having a link to a hot lap or some sort of video. I did not know it was a pre requisite.

You can post, obviously. Your first post wasn't benign however, and immediately claimed non-legitimacy with absolutely nothing to support your claim, that's all.


If you're going to claim others lap times aren't legit then at least have something to backup your claim.

This, exactly.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
28-09-2015, 14:48
why? Do the ghosts show excessive cutting or other suspicious behaviour?

It is not good enough to simply say "1m12 is not legit" without providing either reasoning or evidence. If it's just because it's faster than your fastest time, then I'm sorry to say that it isn't a good enough reason (see my previous post :)).

And before anybody asks, I haven't set a time at Sakitto in the FA - in fact, I'm not sure I've set a time at all in the FA - so I am trying to look at this as a neutral bystander :).This is a problem on Silverstone GP, for example using the Clio RS Cup car people are entering the pits at the end of the lap and getting below 2:20 (you can follow the ghosts). As an example I got around 2:24 with the Clio after a few laps of driving normally, then tried entering the pits and got a low 2:18 time.

cluck
28-09-2015, 15:13
This is a problem on Silverstone GP, for example using the Clio RS Cup car people are entering the pits at the end of the lap and getting below 2:20 (you can follow the ghosts). As an example I got around 2:24 with the Clio after a few laps of driving normally, then tried entering the pits and got a low 2:18 time.I presume this has been reported already as a problem, ie that time trial times are valid even if you've entered the pits?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
28-09-2015, 15:43
I presume this has been reported already as a problem, ie that time trial times are valid even if you've entered the pits?Some of the rules settings could probably influence it, but no, I haven't actually seen it reported yet. I only found out yesterday myself, while checking the legitimacy of the top times for a friend.

Roger Prynne
28-09-2015, 15:50
^^^ Reported.

Bruno Alexandre
28-09-2015, 16:32
Confirmed and passed onto the team.

cluck
28-09-2015, 16:34
Just noticed that it's already been reported here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?39835-SMS-R-Round-15-Clio-Cup-Silverstone-GP-Once-again-cheating-using-the-pitlane!) and spotted by a blue guy :)

JupiterJoe
28-09-2015, 16:48
i'm #147 with 1.20.3 and is my best ranking in community events so far, i'm quite good with FA though i admit i can't do more than 5-6 hotlaps without getting tired (and i don't use a wheel), btw there are some points where you can go wide and get a valid lap, degner 1 and 2 and spoon come to mind...

This is my lap, look how wide you can go at 0.35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ufBeuRRZ0Are you using assists? And, if you're spending this much time playing racing games, don't you think it's worth buying a wheel? What are you, some sort of cheap-skate? ;-P

havocc
28-09-2015, 16:54
Are you using assists? And, if you're spending this much time playing racing games, don't you think it's worth buying a wheel? What are you, some sort of cheap-skate? ;-P

I'm waiting for T300Rs Alcantara ed. with T3PA pedals to come out

shredspillers
29-09-2015, 01:46
Some of the rules settings could probably influence it, but no, I haven't actually seen it reported yet. I only found out yesterday myself, while checking the legitimacy of the top times for a friend.

hmmmm since when can you change the settings when doing a recorded lap time in TT?? or community laps?

shredspillers
29-09-2015, 02:40
why do I need to post a video? just go in the game and race against some of the top times. Its right there..

My PB time is a mid 1.15.

I never said I was the fastest guy on the track and I was unaware of the community times and that this track was the recent track and car in there.

my WR lap time at Mugello in a Ferrari 458 GT2 in Assetto Corsa is still the WR time all aids off

But I prefer racing F1 cars over any other car IMO they are the best cars to drive they have the best of everything.

But yet so many people are afraid to drive them because they just can't handle the car..

But they just don't put the time behind the wheel..

http://rivalitempo-softgrip.rhcloud.com/leaderboard/planet_earth/ferrari_458_gt2/mugello/slick_supersoft?start=0&highlight=5481fc58eb01d9b77dcfc244

I am not new to sim racing but some of you guys what your saying and especially if you haven't driven this track car combo really shouldn't even say anything. Your just making yourself look pretty foolish.

Go get in a FA car at Sakitto GP and do some laps let's see how you do!! Unless you can't handle the car then don't get on here and say something you know nothing about!!

Come on lets go do some laps!!

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
29-09-2015, 03:04
why do I need to post a video? just go in the game and race against some of the top times. Its right there..Well you don't have to, but it would be ever so nice of you to do it when bringing up a problem, it'd both be a nice gesture and a helluva lot quicker. Since you've paid attention to the situation you're probably one of the better qualified to report the problem most accurately.

Anyway I took a look at the top ghost on Sakitto which is 1:12 something, and didn't see anything untowards in the lap. Looked to be just a very smooth and quick lap.

maddogmorag
29-09-2015, 04:52
Well you don't have to, but it would be ever so nice of you to do it when bringing up a problem, it'd both be a nice gesture and a helluva lot quicker. Since you've paid attention to the situation you're probably one of the better qualified to report the problem most accurately.

Anyway I took a look at the top ghost on Sakitto which is 1:12 something, and didn't see anything untowards in the lap. Looked to be just a very smooth and quick lap.

When u say u took a look at the ghost, did you mean you raced the ghost or were you able to view the whole lap without racing it??

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
29-09-2015, 04:55
When u say u took a look at the ghost, did you mean you raced the ghost or were you able to view the whole lap without racing it??I raced it but to really see what it was doing I looked at it in replay (you can switch the camera to the ghost car, then use Ctrl-K to zoom out a bit and the car becomes more visible). So essentially both.

maddogmorag
29-09-2015, 04:57
Thanks

tgrey
29-09-2015, 05:17
I raced it but to really see what it was doing I looked at it in replay (you can switch the camera to the ghost car, then use Ctrl-K to zoom out a bit and the car becomes more visible). So essentially both.

There needs to be a better way to watch a ghost lap than that.

cluck
29-09-2015, 08:30
FWIW I did a 1m20.5 on my 3rd lap in default setup last night - yes, I found it funny aswell ;). That's driving a car I haven't driven for at least 6 months (most likely longer) and have barely put any time in all the way through development (I just had far more fun in the road, GT and lower-spec Formula cars). So, as I said in my earlier reply to maddog, all my time would prove is that I'm not as quick as the quickest guys :).

But I see Jussi has already posted, having looked at the ghost laps and can't see anything untoward, so if anybody has proof that those WR times are done through cheating, provide it. Otherwise, you simply need to accept that you are not the quickest guy on the track :).

But I'm not very quick, I only did a scrappy 7m26 time at Nords in the RUF CTR (with default setup) on my 1st clean lap with that combo (I binned the first 5 or 6 attempts whilst getting used to the car).

FAHound
29-09-2015, 09:14
I'm with the OP on this one. It's my favourite track and class, I've done thousands of miles in FA on that track and had a best time of 1.18 before the reset. Shaving a few seconds off that 1.20 time is very hard to do. Setups, watching the leader ghosts and racing lines make a huge difference but not that much of a difference. I'm now having to time trial other tracks that I don't like as much because of this issue.

In defence of the OP - I would say it's a physical impossibility to get a 1.12 time without going off the track or cheating. I base that on hundreds of hours of FA experience and knowing that track and car inside out.

Of course - I may be crap and the 1.12 bloke is a racing God, but I don't think so. How about somebody at SMS or WMD actually checking out the time and ghost and put the issue to rest. It'd make me much happier as I could time trial my favourite track and car again knowing the times above me were genuine.

Sankyo
29-09-2015, 09:45
I'm with the OP on this one. It's my favourite track and class, I've done thousands of miles in FA on that track and had a best time of 1.18 before the reset. Shaving a few seconds off that 1.20 time is very hard to do. Setups, watching the leader ghosts and racing lines make a huge difference but not that much of a difference. I'm now having to time trial other tracks that I don't like as much because of this issue.

In defence of the OP - I would say it's a physical impossibility to get a 1.12 time without going off the track or cheating. I base that on hundreds of hours of FA experience and knowing that track and car inside out.

Of course - I may be crap and the 1.12 bloke is a racing God, but I don't think so. How about somebody at SMS or WMD actually checking out the time and ghost and put the issue to rest. It'd make me much happier as I could time trial my favourite track and car again knowing the times above me were genuine.
How much set-up tuning did you do on the car?

I don't want to make broad sweeping statements or stigmatize people, but alien drivers are usually very good games players who can and will use every bit, limitation and 'feature' that the game gives them to their advantage. I remember Felipe Massa's time-to-beat got crushed by alien sim racers in Kuno's NKPro Ferrari Academy spin-off thing. Are those better F1 drivers than Felipe? Hell no, they're just better game players, and real-world drivers are hindered by instincts and habits formed by real-life driving limitations.

Hence, alien drivers are not cheating, but very good (and better than most others) at 'exploiting' the game's possibilities.

chig88
29-09-2015, 11:11
real-world drivers are hindered by instincts and habits formed by real-life driving limitations.

Aaanndd there's my new go-to excuse :D.

Obviously I'm an unbelievable driver in real life - which is why I'm worse than useless at this game ;).

Silraed
29-09-2015, 11:17
I didn't get a chance to set a time in the community event but I just jumped into time trial to give it a go. I managed a 1:19.8 after about 20 minutes with no DRS or KERS and a default setup, all I changed was the some minor changes to the FFB to make it drivable.
That is a car and track combination I have no previous experience with and I have only driven the Formula A a handful of times previously. Given my experience I think it is completely viable for an alien with a highly tuned setup to reach these kinds of WR times.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
29-09-2015, 11:18
I would say it's a physical impossibility to get a 1.12 time without going off the track or cheating.I saw one instance of going wide that looked like it could have counted for some time, it was at the ~90 degree turn before going under the bridge, or the one after the Corner-Inspired-By-Degner. And even then they stayed on the extension of the kerb. Other than that I found it remarkable how well they stayed inside.

Sankyo
29-09-2015, 11:52
Aaanndd there's my new go-to excuse :D.

Obviously I'm an unbelievable driver in real life - which is why I'm worse than useless at this game ;).
Or if you're a lousy driver in real-life, those instincts and habits will make you even worse in sim racing :)


Sorry

chig88
29-09-2015, 12:04
Or if you're a lousy driver in real-life, those instincts and habits will make you even worse in sim racing :)


Sorry

How dare you ;).

Roger Prynne
29-09-2015, 12:18
I'm with the OP on this one. It's my favourite track and class, I've done thousands of miles in FA on that track and had a best time of 1.18 before the reset. Shaving a few seconds off that 1.20 time is very hard to do. Setups, watching the leader ghosts and racing lines make a huge difference but not that much of a difference. I'm now having to time trial other tracks that I don't like as much because of this issue.

In defence of the OP - I would say it's a physical impossibility to get a 1.12 time without going off the track or cheating. I base that on hundreds of hours of FA experience and knowing that track and car inside out.

Of course - I may be crap and the 1.12 bloke is a racing God, but I don't think so. How about somebody at SMS or WMD actually checking out the time and ghost and put the issue to rest. It'd make me much happier as I could time trial my favourite track and car again knowing the times above me were genuine.


Well you don't have to, but it would be ever so nice of you to do it when bringing up a problem, it'd both be a nice gesture and a helluva lot quicker. Since you've paid attention to the situation you're probably one of the better qualified to report the problem most accurately.

Anyway I took a look at the top ghost on Sakitto which is 1:12 something, and didn't see anything untowards in the lap. Looked to be just a very smooth and quick lap.
I trust Jussi's judgement.

FAHound
29-09-2015, 13:06
I saw one instance of going wide that looked like it could have counted for some time, it was at the ~90 degree turn before going under the bridge, or the one after the Corner-Inspired-By-Degner. And even then they stayed on the extension of the kerb. Other than that I found it remarkable how well they stayed inside.

Ok thanks for that, I'll check it out later just to see if they're pulling the pit cheat. So, two wheels on the kerb is within the rules and not cheating? That's good to know.

I'm still with the OP at the moment - as the best times have changed by a few seconds since the update, it is very suspicious. Months of 1.14, 1.15's and then all of a sudden after the update seconds are being wiped off times. Something has changed and I do not believe it's the skill level of the drivers, Alien (is this just a fancy word cheaters have made up for themselves?), or otherwise.

So, what has changed in the update? Track limits? Car power/handling? If it is a genuine time then I'd like to know what changed in the update so that I can focus on that particular aspect to improve my times.

Anyways, thanks for looking into it for us.

FAHound
29-09-2015, 13:07
I trust Jussi's judgement.

Aaaah, that's nice, I bet he's chuffed.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
29-09-2015, 13:28
Ok thanks for that, I'll check it out later just to see if they're pulling the pit cheat. So, two wheels on the kerb is within the rules and not cheating? That's good to know.

I'm still with the OP at the moment - as the best times have changed by a few seconds since the update, it is very suspicious. Months of 1.14, 1.15's and then all of a sudden after the update seconds are being wiped off times. Something has changed and I do not believe it's the skill level of the drivers, Alien (is this just a fancy word cheaters have made up for themselves?), or otherwise.

So, what has changed in the update? Track limits? Car power/handling? If it is a genuine time then I'd like to know what changed in the update so that I can focus on that particular aspect to improve my times.

Anyways, thanks for looking into it for us.Didn't do the pit cheat, drove normally through the track. The only questionable bit was going wide at the 90 degree corner, but nothing real F1 hasn't seen a million times as well, and probably not worth seconds at any rate. Other than that the car stayed really nicely within the lines and looked to just be taking smooth lines through the corners, and accelerating and braking really well, clearly also using the KERS and DRS in a very efficient manner.

It's not a track cheat at any rate I think, but that doesn't rule out a setup exploit, or other sort of foul play. Though I have to say that I've noticed in the past that even if times plateau at some point, if someone comes up with something new that allows them to go faster, other people also pick up on that and get there as well.

cluck
29-09-2015, 14:24
Ok thanks for that, I'll check it out later just to see if they're pulling the pit cheat. So, two wheels on the kerb is within the rules and not cheating? That's good to know.

I'm still with the OP at the moment - as the best times have changed by a few seconds since the update, it is very suspicious. Months of 1.14, 1.15's and then all of a sudden after the update seconds are being wiped off times. Something has changed and I do not believe it's the skill level of the drivers, Alien (is this just a fancy word cheaters have made up for themselves?), or otherwise.

So, what has changed in the update? Track limits? Car power/handling? If it is a genuine time then I'd like to know what changed in the update so that I can focus on that particular aspect to improve my times.

Anyways, thanks for looking into it for us.Nothing has changed in the manner you are suspecting :). As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, the combo came up as a 'community challenge event', so lots of quick people started to take part. I suspect the number of entries in the leaderboard shot up massively as soon as the event appeared on the schedule but without knowing what the leaderboard looked like pre- and post- the event taking place, that is pure speculation on my part.

Yes, it sucks to think you've done an amazing lap, only to have somebody like Joni Varis rock up and make you realise you are mortal again :D.

beetes_juice
29-09-2015, 14:47
Those 12's and 13's are legit. Mind numbing times.

Did about 3 hours in the FA Community Event attempting to chase down an SDL guy to no avail (Aliens). No cutting or anything crazy that would be a cause for concern. I could keep up with a few of them for the lap but going into sector 3; wow they were fast. I could be a car length ahead going into the straight before 130R but those guys ghost would just gain more and more speed. End up being overtaken by the exit of 130R. Good fun and ended up 6th or 7th in the end on xboxone but I kept thinking to myself that I was missing something in the setup: could have been downforce but I could not wrap my head on how they found the speed in sector 3. Would love to poke one of their brains for some setup tips.

Alien times but legit.

Sankyo
29-09-2015, 15:08
How dare you ;).
Internet anonymity :p


Oh wait.