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dbpurcell
30-09-2015, 23:51
Hello all,

I have had a couple issues with the Lotus 98T Renault Turbo Formula Race Car when it comes to driving it on wet pavement. I have the tire wear off in the General Settings, and I normally don't have an issue with driving this car on dry pavement. For some reason, when I drive it on wet pavement, the tire wear still goes into the Red category, and once that happens it becomes extremely difficult to control the car. I have tried this with "Automatic by Weather" tire settings as well as with "Lotus 98T Rain" tire settings. Why does this seem to happen with certain rear wheel drive cars? It's quite frustrating!

Also, I change the traction control slip to 1% since the lower setting is supposed to help with traction in bad weather conditions. Is there something that I am missing here? The last track that I drove on with this issue is the Circuit de Spa Franchorchamps while you are doing the Touring series in Tier 6. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated!

Vennt
01-10-2015, 00:15
The colour does not indicate wear (Assuming you are talking about the telemetry overlay).

It indicates tyre temperature:

Blue: Still Cold - No grip
Green: Best Temp for grip
Red: Overheating - No grip

If you overheat the tyres, you're going to have difficulty driving.

Overheating rears is usually a sign either too much wheel spin or too much oversteer, manage your throttle application more subtly.

Overheating the fronts is usually due to "scrubbing", where you are compensating for understeer by adding more steering input, look at the steering lock in set-up, you might actually have too much (i.e. too fast), also look to your turn in points and corner entry speed, you want these smooth and consistent.

dbpurcell
01-10-2015, 00:34
Oh yes, you are correct. I am referring to the telemetry overlay, which indicates tire temperature. So when I see that it changes to red, that's when I notice I start to lose control of the car. It has only happened in a couple RWD cars that I have driven. I'm just driving like I normally would, but the difference is that it only seems to happen when I'm driving on wet pavement. It's the rear tires that are overheating, which is causing me difficulty. Is there anything in particular that I should change in the tuning setup before I start the race? Thank you for your initial feedback, I really appreciate it!

Vennt
01-10-2015, 00:43
First of all it's important to define what you mean by "wet" :P

If we're talking just a medium wet track from a bit of light to medium rain, then you don't want to be using the wet tires, unless there is a lot of standing water from really heavy rain, they are going to overheat really easily, you should use intermediates instead.

Secondly, you have to account for the rain, when you say "I'm just driving as I usually do" I hope you forgot to add "...but quite a bit slower, because of, you know, the wet track" - Even wet & intermediate tires require a slower lap, or you're going to the armco / gravel, they make driving in the wet easier, but they do not negate the weather, the weather and track conditions still require you to adapt your driving to compensate.

hkraft300
01-10-2015, 02:46
Scrubbing doesn't seem to hear the front tires for me. I've tried scrubbing to heat up the fronts but get a lot of wear instead.
I think what the OP is talking about are the yellow grip circles in each corner that turn red when it is wearing/ beyond limits. I've noticed I was getting that with the 98T at Silverstone in the wet, especially around the slow corners.
Increased deceleration diff solved the problem. Maybe the axle was locking too soon/early.

NemethR
01-10-2015, 06:16
Its a bug most likely, and does not effect actual grip.
At least that is what I experienced.

hkraft300
01-10-2015, 07:14
Didn't feel it affected grip so much. The other tire compensated maybe?
But increasing the declaration diff increased rear tire life by many many laps.

dbpurcell
01-10-2015, 12:13
Well in this case, what I mean by wet is that the track is already soaked due to light rain conditions for the entire duration of the race. I did notice that when I used the "Automatic by Weather" tire setting, I was able to drive quite a bit further than with the rain tires, but I still ran into the situation where the rear tires began to overheat, and as a result I started to lose control of the car. So that does answer one of my questions in this case, such that in this particular situation I should not use the rain tires (unless the weather forecast is heavy rain), because then the rain tires will overheat much quicker than the "Automatic by Weather" tires.

To provide more clarification on the second topic, you are correct to say that I need to account for the rain, as I should be driving slower on the wet track due to decreased traction. What you said makes a lot of sense, but for me, I just need to figure out how to adapt my driving to compensate.

dbpurcell
01-10-2015, 12:14
Its a bug most likely, and does not effect actual grip.
At least that is what I experienced.

Yeah, that is what I was starting to think as well...that it could most likely be a bug in the game.

dbpurcell
01-10-2015, 12:18
Didn't feel it affected grip so much. The other tire compensated maybe?
But increasing the declaration diff increased rear tire life by many many laps.

I do have a question. When you say that you increased the deceleration difference which as a result increases rear tire life, is it such that you are braking much earlier prior to taking a corner, or are you watching how you accelerate around the corner to minimize rear wheel spin? I just want to make sure I understand what you mean so that I can become better with adapting my driving style in wet conditions.

Vennt
01-10-2015, 12:34
In the wet you should brake much earlier, stopping distance on a wet track can be as much as double or even triple that of a dry track, and the difference increases with faster speeds.

If you find you lock up the fronts when braking in the wet, Cadence Braking can help you make the turn-in on corner entry. (Remember, locked fronts don't turn! - regardless of steering input)

Cadence braking is worth learning as a technique in general, as it will help you save the car in instances where otherwise you would have gone into the gravel, or barrier, but it's a method for compensating for failing to threshold brake, and threshold braking should be your main, go-to technique, in the wet and the dry, it's not a replacement for threshold braking.

dbpurcell
01-10-2015, 13:18
Okay I understand. That was definitely helpful to me! I think my main problem was that I was braking the same in wet pavement as I would in dry, and not properly accounting for the weather conditions. I will definitely be sure to brake much earlier so that my tires won't overheat, and that should make a difference for sure.

hkraft300
01-10-2015, 22:56
The Lotus rain tires I found were pretty good. On a wet track the corner speeds and braking distance weren't that much slower, but exit speeds are a lot slower. I'd increase the acceleration diff a little too.
I can't remember if the 98T has intermediate tires. If it's a tire temp/wear issues you're having, ease up. You're probably locking the wheels on the brakes. The sound is faint. I use cockpit cam and watch as best I can for wheels slowing suddenly. Have to listen for tire strain/slip noise too. It's faint in the dry and more so in wet conditions.

dbpurcell
02-10-2015, 12:05
Yes, it's a tire temperature issue that I'm having. So I was just trying to figure out what I could do differently to minimize the tire warming up to the point where I start to lose control of the car, as I have only experienced this on a wet track. On a dry track, I have no issues whatsoever. I appreciate your additional feedback as well, everyone that has responded thus far has been very helpful.

hkraft300
02-10-2015, 13:05
Are you running different setup, specifically tire pressure for the rain tires?
Your pressure may be too low or your spring rate too high.

dbpurcell
03-10-2015, 11:30
No, I have never adjusted the tire pressure or spring rate in the tuning setup. I just keep those settings where they are. However, now that you mention it, when driving on wet pavement (which essentially changes the temperature of the pavement), it would make sense that my tire pressure may be too low, which could be causing my tires to overheat. Would I be right to assume that? If not, then please correct me.

MikeyTT
03-10-2015, 11:41
If you've not changed the pressures then that is almost 100% going to be the issue.

Presumably you have the other telemetry view on consoles (with the suspension and tyre info), so I would fire that up and do a few laps. The temps should stabilise at roughly the high 80s or the low 90s (deg C). It's likely in the dry that the telemetry HUD is green, but the actual temps are lower than this. Then in the wet, you're cooking the rears.

If the tyre is too hot, then increase the pressure and try again. Given you're running red already, I would look to increase the rears by about 0.10 as a start and see where you go from there.

dbpurcell
03-10-2015, 11:50
Okay sounds good! I will definitely give that a try! I figured that I wasn't accounting for something, but I just didn't know what it was. To be honest, I have gotten so used to playing Gran Turismo, and I haven't fully adjusted to Project Cars just yet. It truly is a fun game to play, and I have learned quite a bit since I started playing it. Again, I do appreciate all of the feedback in this thread!