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Joseph Barron
02-10-2015, 09:19
After the success of the Electronic Sports League’s Project CARS Kick-Off Cups, it’s time to hit top gear! Starting this Sunday, you can enter the Project CARS Go4 Cups! The format is similar to the Kick-Off events, but now you can win real cash by playing Project CARS! There are weekly prizes of 50 EUR for the winners on Xbox, PlayStation and PC and monthly finals worth 150 EUR for the top players!

Here’s a step-by-step guide to help you join the first Go4 competition on Sunday October 4 2015.

Step 1: Create ESL account

Register for a free account on the ESL website (http://play.eslgaming.com/projectcars) using your email address or Facebook account.

Choose the name you want to use on the website. This does not have to match your console/PC username

Step 2: Choose your Project CARS platform

Register your interest in the Project CARS Go4 Cups on the platform that you’ll be playing the game on, using the box on the right-hand side of one of the tournament pages linked below.

PlayStation 4 (http://play.eslgaming.com/projectcars/playstation/projectcars-ps4/major/go4projectcars-europe/cup-1/)
Xbox One (http://play.eslgaming.com/projectcars/xbox/projectcars-one/major/go4projectcars-europe/cup-1/)
PC (http://play.eslgaming.com/projectcars/pc/projectcars-pc/major/go4projectcars-europe/cup-1/)

Enter your game ID, such as your Xbox Gamertag, PSN ID, or Steam account, by clicking ‘Game ID’ the box on the right-hand side of the tournament page.

Step 3: Check in for the event on the date it takes place

After you’ve signed up, make a note of the date and time that the tournament takes place.

On the day, click the ‘Check in’ button on the right-hand side of the tournament page to confirm to the organisers that you are available and ready to participate.

Step 4: Play!

Wait for an opponent.

Use the game account to add your opponent & contact him/her in-game in Project CARS.

Create a game lobby and invite your opponent.

Set up the correct settings/rules in the game. These must exactly match the rules listed on the tournament page.

Play your match.

Enter or confirm your result on the ESL website. If you experience any problems with other players attempting to record a false result, open a protest.

If you progress to the next round of the bracket, follow Step 4 again until you either get knocked out, or you win the whole thing!

Hopefully that makes the ESL account creation and tournament sign-up process a little clearer. If you have any remaining questions, please ask your fellow competitors in this thread, or visit the ESL's Project CARS forums (http://forum.eslgaming.com/categories/project-cars).

Now, go chase down that prize money!

FLX81
02-10-2015, 09:56
We have so many great GT3 tracks. Why are all of those 4 cups still featuring the exact same tracks as the kickoff cups? That will get tedious for everybody after 7 rounds, I mean come on... Throw some Road America, Zolder, Watkins Glen, Nürburgring GP, Zhuhai, Dubai, Monza, Barcelona, Brno, Bathurst etc in there to mix things up a bit.

And by the way: Suzuka is 3.6 miles long, so I guess Sakitto is longer than 2.6 miles.

Joseph Barron
02-10-2015, 10:27
We have so many great GT3 tracks. Why are all of those 4 cups still featuring the exact same tracks as the kickoff cups? That will get tedious for everybody after 7 rounds, I mean come on... Throw some Road America, Zolder, Watkins Glen, Nürburgring GP, Zhuhai, Dubai, Monza, Barcelona, Brno, Bathurst etc in there to mix things up a bit.

And by the way: Suzuka is 3.6 miles long, so I guess Sakitto is longer than 2.6 miles.

Rest assured, we are passing everyone's feedback on to the ESL.

Kroegtijgertje
02-10-2015, 17:23
I'll pass this cup with the 'glue bug' still not being fixed.

MrBlacky
02-10-2015, 21:02
Are there any plans for a real race cup? No 1on1 but proper team racing with up to 30 players.

DriftManiaX
04-10-2015, 18:54
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qo9tH4XLMN4&feature=youtu.be

ibby
04-10-2015, 20:43
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qo9tH4XLMN4&feature=youtu.be

The blue guy did bump him off in the middle and overtook.
About the action at the end: We don't see wether it was premeditated due to the bumper entanglement code. We don't know wether he pushed towards the left or not with the outside replay.
It could look the same even if he didn't.

DriftManiaX
04-10-2015, 21:37
Maybe you can watch this action from the same guy the race before.
https://youtu.be/rbdyvJWB9GA

The race needed to be 6 laps and not 4 so i told him that. So we did a restart with the right number of laps. And about that bump that wasn't on purpose i braked a little to late besides he isn't going in the sand.

The point is that this is so stupid why not race as ghosts? So nobody can hit eachother! People are racing for money and they would kill to earn that 50€

Joseph Barron
05-10-2015, 08:36
Are there any plans for a real race cup? No 1on1 but proper team racing with up to 30 players.

We would like to do that when the time is right and we have a more developed set of rules and tournament structure. We'll let everyone know when we get closer to making it happen. That's not a promise, but it is something we would like to do.

Joseph Barron
05-10-2015, 13:40
Check out the Go4 Cup #1 results on our shiny new eSports website!

http://www.projectcarsesports.com/home/esl-go4-cup-results

Mahjik
05-10-2015, 22:11
I've never looked into this, but is this supposed to follow "racing rules"? The reason I ask is that the two videos posted show a driver "blocking", making more than one defensive move.

Joseph Barron
06-10-2015, 08:40
I've never looked into this, but is this supposed to follow "racing rules"? The reason I ask is that the two videos posted show a driver "blocking", making more than one defensive move.

We would like people to follow racing rules as closely as possible. Andy Tudor and I both competed in the first Go4 Cup to help us understand the experiences that you guys have been having, and we both had good, fair races. That said, we are working with the ESL to improve the marshaling of their events in the future.

Ryzza5
07-10-2015, 04:31
Hoping for a Pro League series to be published to YouTube at some point, perhaps with commentators.

Joseph Barron
08-10-2015, 09:12
Hi everyone.

Go4 Cup #2 is this Sunday at 3pm with the same cash prizes up for grabs again. That's 50 EUR for the winner on each platform, plus a bonus 150 EUR if you compete every week and manage to be an overall monthly winner.

The ESL team has tweaked the rules a bit this week based on your comments that I passed on to them.

The changes include:
- Driving aids set to 'Realistic'
- A more varied circuit selection, using tracks more suited to the GT3 cars.

I know some of you guys aren't keen on the use of the Nordschleife for these events, but it has remained as the choice for the final round this week. However, I have asked that the qualifying session be made longer for this track. If you still have issues with this track this weekend, let me know on Monday and we'll see about changing it for Go4 Cup #3.

Now, get practicing for Sunday and go grab that cash!

N0body Of The Goat
08-10-2015, 11:23
I've never looked into this, but is this supposed to follow "racing rules"? The reason I ask is that the two videos posted show a driver "blocking", making more than one defensive move.

I agree, in the first video, the BMW does at least two defensive moves heading to turn 1 of the race.

juakorossi
08-10-2015, 15:03
In the cup rules are two qualifying session: Quilifying (5 minutes) and Final Qualifying (15 minutes). Never saw two qualifying sessions options in the online room setup before, ¿is this possible or is a little mistake?

Joseph Barron
08-10-2015, 15:08
In the cup rules are two qualifying session: Quilifying (5 minutes) and Final Qualifying (15 minutes). Never saw two qualifying sessions options in the online room setup before, ¿is this possible or is a little mistake?

It's correct. It means:

- 5 minutes qualifying at all circuits except for...
- 15 minutes qualifying in the final round, which is at the Nordschleife.

juakorossi
08-10-2015, 15:27
It's correct. It means:

- 5 minutes qualifying at all circuits except for...
- 15 minutes qualifying in the final round, which is at the Nordschleife.

Thanks! Understood now! :cool:

ElectricBlues85
11-10-2015, 15:23
Tried this for the first time today on Ps4. Complete shambles!

In the R64 my opponent hasn't confirmed the result so my bracket is stuck without being able to progress. One bracket is up to the 1/4's.

GT-Club_Atho_
18-10-2015, 18:42
You need to change the rules on the real assists on. All the GT3 have abs except the BM3 M3 GT. So the best is to put real assist off and Yes on the abs.

..AST..reaper
19-10-2015, 04:08
It's total b.s. Winner takes all four tires off at least 6 times per lap and runs a 1:15 at SPA with full assists. I can't best that because I won't drive sloppy. Waste of time. Turn assists off and post-race half second penalty for each time all four are off

FIA 2015 Formula Rules:

Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track without justifiable reason

Joseph Barron
19-10-2015, 08:30
It's total b.s. Winner takes all four tires off at least 6 times per lap and runs a 1:15 at SPA with full assists. I can't best that because I won't drive sloppy. Waste of time. Turn assists off and post-race half second penalty for each time all four are off

FIA 2015 Formula Rules:

Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.
A driver may not deliberately leave the track without justifiable reason

This is the first time that I've heard of people cutting the track by this much in these events. Do you know the name of the driver and on which platform? It may be possible for the ESL to look into this in more detail.

..AST..reaper
19-10-2015, 14:14
I have the video. Will post on Vimeo tonight.


Correction of first post. The winning lap times were 2:15, not 1:15.

MrBlacky
19-10-2015, 16:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ob0c7Yh4l4

This is an older record of me doing a low 2:15. Yesterday we were actually doing 14.3s at the best.
And as you can see in the video you don't have to cut the track to be that quick, so don't cry because others are faster than you.

crowtrobot
19-10-2015, 16:52
It's total b.s. Winner takes all four tires off at least 6 times per lap and runs a 1:15 at SPA with full assists. I can't best that because I won't drive sloppy. Waste of time. Turn assists off and post-race half second penalty for each time all four are off
Assists aside, I raced USSRxALeXeR in the quarterfinals, and he was simply too fast. I didn't see any egregious cuts or overruns, just better setup and driving.

..AST..reaper
20-10-2015, 16:46
It's truly not important enough to cry about. Drive how you like. I prefer to test my ability to stay in the lines. It's like playing Madden without using NFL rules. What's the point?

MrBlacky
20-10-2015, 17:40
It's truly not important enough to cry about. Drive how you like. I prefer to test my ability to stay in the lines. It's like playing Madden without using NFL rules. What's the point?

Your accusing players of "cheating" or cutting the track. Where is the evidence.

Without any it reads like the standard one "The others are 3 secs quicker, so they must be cheating".

..AST..reaper
20-10-2015, 19:36
You were there.
https://vimeo.com/142994757

Lap 3, 4 tires off 6 times, and plenty in the remaining laps. I'm accusing ESL of inadequate rules. You are entitled to race how you want and it's up to ESL to define the parameters. I'm not here to put you on blast. I never named you, but since you're here...

Papand
20-10-2015, 21:38
I think the ingame cut-track system is adequate enough. The best drive to the limit and thats how it is.

MrBlacky
20-10-2015, 22:29
You were there.
https://vimeo.com/142994757

Lap 3, 4 tires off 6 times, and plenty in the remaining laps. I'm accusing ESL of inadequate rules. You are entitled to race how you want and it's up to ESL to define the parameters. I'm not here to put you on blast. I never named you, but since you're here...

You were arguing like this


It's total b.s. Winner takes all four tires off at least 6 times per lap and runs a 1:15 at SPA with full assists. I can't best that because I won't drive sloppy. Waste of time. Turn assists off and post-race half second penalty for each time all four are off

and quoted the F1 rules.

Since this is no Formula 1 and even there not every time you leave the track you'll get a penalty, I don't get your point. (Watch F1 Spa race)

I was expecting some serious track cutting videos from you, but what you can see in this video is .. well. Everytime I come onto that green "curb" (it's some sort of fake grass) I lose time. Not gain.

ElectricBlues85
20-10-2015, 23:08
You were there.
https://vimeo.com/142994757

Lap 3, 4 tires off 6 times, and plenty in the remaining laps. I'm accusing ESL of inadequate rules. You are entitled to race how you want and it's up to ESL to define the parameters. I'm not here to put you on blast. I never named you, but since you're here...

Personally, i don't see anything wrong with that line. Watch RL races at Spa and you'll find very much the same.

I've known TT events to define track limits as within the white lines but in race conditions you can't police it. If the game could do the policing, fair enough but if ESL impose stricter track limits then every race at every stage of the completion is going to end up in a dispute with video evidence required.

Using the green astro turf stuff is slowing the car down compared to just having enough grip at the write speed to nip the curb. However, it is faster than going slow enough to guarantee not going over the lines.

..AST..reaper
21-10-2015, 00:11
This topic has been debated ad nauseum. Watch the WEC 2015 6 hours of Spa. Stewards handed out penalties. Again, my vote is cast. Blacks has clearly cast his vote in favor of exceeding track limits. There isn't much more to say from the participants. For ESL to organize racing events with no pre-determination either way is asinine. I care little for last week's race but a little bit of delineation (no pun intended...) from ESL is paramount. As a senior attorney for a major US law firm I assure you that parties to a contract or a race view ambiguity as unacceptable.

Once you permit 4 tires off, who decides how much is too much? Where is the line then? I thought it was that large white one.

Chexx
21-10-2015, 09:37
There are no additional rules regarding leaving the track in the ESL rules because we follow the ingame penalty system. If there is no ingame penalty then its fine with us. I watched the video and couldn't really see a major problem.

If we would add our own rules to it. It would result in delays because it takes time till the video is uploaded, watched,reviewed and the following disucssion with the players which would result in huge tournament delays. This would decrease the tournament experience for every affected player.

I hope I could clarify it and if you have follow up questions let me know.

marcdxn
21-10-2015, 10:53
There are no additional rules regarding leaving the track in the ESL rules because we follow the ingame penalty system. If there is no ingame penalty then its fine with us. I watched the video and couldn't really see a major problem.

If we would add our own rules to it. It would result in delays because it takes time till the video is uploaded, watched,reviewed and the following disucssion with the players which would result in huge tournament delays. This would decrease the tournament experience for every affected player.

I hope I could clarify it and if you have follow up questions let me know.


This exactly as its written above.

ESL can't be expected to police it to this level, if the game allows it then it that's that.
It's for the game developers to prevent cut tracks or track limits if they are available to use then use them because your competitor probably will do.

In my race i was accused of making contact during my pass towards the end, i recorded the race and i don't see any contact and if there is any its very slight and i didnt feel a ding or see it, The guy i raced wanted me to throw the race and give him the win on the ESL page... :s you can't start getting completely crazy over what is being protested, cars touch during racing all the time without any penalties they are considered racing incidents in real life, people need to watch some GT3 series racing and see how much contact there is at times.

If you try and over police the Project Cars ESL events then you run the risk of killing it off - through the waiting time for admins to check every little complaint to players getting annoyed with having protests made against them after every race.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEt28Mq9Ago

..AST..reaper
21-10-2015, 22:04
That's why it shouldn't be numerous 1x1 but, rather, several Sunday races with more on the grid, weeding the bottom x-number out after each race. That way ESL could play the role of Steward assessing time penalties or DQ after the end of each race.


On that topic (too many races to police), generally, I wholeheartedly agree that we're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Joseph Barron
22-10-2015, 10:58
Hi everyone. The ESL is running a short survey to gather feedback on the Cups so far.

Please help them out by filling it in. It should only take 5 minutes.

http://surveymonkey.com/r/595GFHL

marcdxn
23-10-2015, 08:44
Hi everyone. The ESL is running a short survey to gather feedback on the Cups so far.

Please help them out by filling it in. It should only take 5 minutes.

http://surveymonkey.com/r/595GFHL

Completed with feedback :yes:

MrBlacky
26-10-2015, 00:13
For those who are interested, this is the replay of the final race from the 4th cup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMhz7FRR5hY&feature=youtu.be

miagi
26-10-2015, 01:13
For those who are interested, this is the replay of the final race from the 4th cup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMhz7FRR5hY&feature=youtu.be
The M3 GT run off track an cut on pretty much every possible occasion. It started the overtaking maneuver by cutting the uphill S?! And the M3 GT is also not a GT3 car. Both of you should revisit the track because you both rarely drove took chicane. Senna lost a F1 drivers title because he misted out one chicane...

TonyR
26-10-2015, 09:22
For those who are interested, this is the replay of the final race from the 4th cup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMhz7FRR5hY&feature=youtu.be

Nice fight!

Here's our Quarter Final as a comparison.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dkAm0cIpY

No chance for overtaking in this case :D

Papand
26-10-2015, 10:10
The M3 GT run off track an cut on pretty much every possible occasion. It started the overtaking maneuver by cutting the uphill S?! And the M3 GT is also not a GT3 car. Both of you should revisit the track because you both rarely drove took chicane. Senna lost a F1 drivers title because he misted out one chicane...

Your comment is a summary of the challenges we face before Project Cars will be accepted by a mainstream audience. You just saw an amazing duel between 2 of the worlds fastest GT3 drivers and you comment on some track cutting?! You should be giving applause for great driving by both instead! The best in the world will push everything to the limit. If ESL feel its going to far, they gotta work with the developers to correct it. The rest of us just gotta watch and learn. Focus on the racing, not on the rules - do not let it evolve into the F1 rulebook hell.

The real worry here is the declining amount of signups. I think the problem is the huge gap between the elite drivers and the rest of the field. I can understand a new guy is being scared off if he is 1 min behind after 5 laps. Its just not fun. I talked to TonyR about it yesterday and his suggestion is to have 6-8 people race together and let the top half go through to the next round. I support that suggestion as it will give more people a chance for good racing. Hopefully even more good suggestions came up in the survey, so we can turn this around and get more racers on board.

Yet again a thanks to ESL and the guys behind this. I had great fun, great racing and good chats with all the guys i raced.

FalkeGT
26-10-2015, 14:37
Great racing @ Tony & Blacky. Must have been a real adrenalin pusher ;)
Just as Papand says (hey Papand ;) ) keep in mind they both raced low 1.41.x on that track and stayed so close the whole race, really nice.

On the other hand track cutting sure is not good and Catalunya is a good example where track cutting detection needs to be improoved badly.
Cutting the final chicane is not detected in any way on that track - this needs to be improoved!

Papand is also right in saying that the ESL cup do not attracks more ppl, there are less and less.
In my and in the opinion of several motorheads I raced there it's the bugs which keep people from racing PCars multiplayer in general.
I may have had arround 25 races there in total - In sure more than 15 of them there were problems:

- Wheels stop working when in the race. We have been restarting one race 5 times in a row until it worked. This happens a lot and it has also been reported here by many, but no action no reply no fix since 2 months.
- Games crashes. Same as with the wheels, happens to so many people but no fix.

I've seen people really angry about that, just leaving the races in frustration.
If you SMS guys want this to get better you need to start working on stability issues really hard and fast. It won't be easy to get back trust in this game from the community.

cheers falkeGT

Patrick Kulinski
26-10-2015, 16:18
I have to agree with Miagi that the amount of cutting and generally leaving the track was pretty obscene, especially in the last chicane. So I strongly oppose to Papand's first paragraph. I would not want to "watch and learn" it, I dislike such driving as it isn't in compliance with the FIA rule book. Consider me stupid if you like, but I much rather prefer to lose than adjust to that. (Remember the sausage kerb in Spa's F1 race this year, in Eau Rouge? I understood that it was dangerous, but it was a great idea to stop that constant cutting. I'd love to see the return of a gravel trap just in this tiny spot in order to punish cutting.)

I also agree that the race mode of 1v1 is a showstopper. Not only do you kill the chance to meet a match for you in a race by putting only two random strangers together, I even think that this is supposed to fail as it's missing the element of driving in the pack which is one of the most thrilling things you can encounter in racing. I even think that simply creating grids with 8 cars and simply letting the four fastest cars through, with the rest of the regulations being the same, would add lots of excitement.

Joseph Barron
26-10-2015, 16:37
Hi everyone. The ESL is looking to try some races with larger grids on a trial basis soon. We'll update you when we have more details.

ONT
26-10-2015, 22:03
Sounds perfect.

But don't go nuts 4, 6 or 8 is manageable :)

Chexx
27-10-2015, 12:36
For those who are interested, this is the replay of the final race from the 4th cup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMhz7FRR5hY&feature=youtu.be

Awesome race! Enjoyed it!

CoTiNhO
30-10-2015, 21:10
Why not to play with force default setups??? I'm the only one who think this could be more interesting??? Races could be much more fun!!!

And change the cars could be awesome too. As we say in spain... GT3 even in the soup! (This mean, seems like GT3 starts to boring) On this way, the game could change the name to Project GT3 Cars jajaja

Random car and random track with default setup could be the answer to an awesome champ in ESL!!!

MarioCart
30-10-2015, 21:56
Why not to play with force default setups??? I'm the only one who think this could be more interesting??? Races could be much more fun!!!

And change the cars could be awesome too. As we say in spain... GT3 even in the soup! (This mean, seems like GT3 starts to boring) On this way, the game could change the name to Project GT3 Cars jajaja

Random car and random track with default setup could be the answer to an awesome champ in ESL!!!

Random weather too.
and random selection of controlling device by throw a cion.

TonyR
30-10-2015, 22:25
Why not to play with force default setups??? I'm the only one who think this could be more interesting??? Races could be much more fun!!!

And change the cars could be awesome too. As we say in spain... GT3 even in the soup! (This mean, seems like GT3 starts to boring) On this way, the game could change the name to Project GT3 Cars jajaja

Random car and random track with default setup could be the answer to an awesome champ in ESL!!!

GT3 is what most people are driving. So I guess changing to other cars could decrease participant count even further.
Default Setup doesn't make sense, because some default setups are better than others and that would narrow down the car of choice more than it already is.


Random weather too.
and random selection of controlling device by throw a cion.

Random weather would be unfair because it would need to be the same for all in one round which it wouldn't be. Also driving in heavy fog is more a lottery than racing.

CoTiNhO
31-10-2015, 01:22
GT3 is the car for most people driving because is the easiest! And the most people drive with all aids ON, that's non must be a reference for a european championship.

Default setup is the same for all the people. Same car, same setup, same opportunities. When i setup the car, i'm 2 secs faster than default. Sincerely, i'm not a man who love to win with a car 2 secs faster. I prefer to loose, but loose with the same opportunity not with a Mclaren-Honda vs Mercedes. I think more people would love this option.
Al lot of people complains F1 it's too boring because Mercedes is 1seg faster per lap, and after that all of them play with setups having the opportunity to race equal!

Anyway, i appreciate your answer!!! It's nice to know all the opinions :D Thank you!

MarioCart
31-10-2015, 14:43
Random weather would be unfair because it would need to be the same for all in one round which it wouldn't be. Also driving in heavy fog is more a lottery than racing.[/QUOTE]

Take a look the pictures

http://www.playstationplusleague.fr/en/tournament/placement-tournament-6-en-25253/rules

ibby
01-11-2015, 19:35
Tried this the first time today and had quite some fun!
Refreshing after trying some public races to find some actually mature players even if it's just for some 1on1 races for now.
Qualifying seems a bit of a waste for just 2 meters ? of difference. Well, i guess that's all that's needed with 2 evenly matched players.
Would've loved to watch the races after mine but i don't think you can expect the players to stream since it can be quite taxing on the pc and connection.
In order for this to start gaining some traction i think adding an esl official spectator who streams will make a big difference once real races start.

MarioCart
02-11-2015, 00:07
Tried this the first time today and had quite some fun!
Refreshing after trying some public races to find some actually mature players even if it's just for some 1on1 races for now.
Qualifying seems a bit of a waste for just 2 meters ? of difference. Well, i guess that's all that's needed with 2 evenly matched players.
Would've loved to watch the races after mine but i don't think you can expect the players to stream since it can be quite taxing on the pc and connection.
In order for this to start gaining some traction i think adding an esl official spectator who streams will make a big difference once real races start.

Quali is very important on some narrow tracks like Bathusrst, where one car can cover the whole track.

TonyR
02-11-2015, 01:16
Tried this the first time today and had quite some fun!
Refreshing after trying some public races to find some actually mature players even if it's just for some 1on1 races for now.
Qualifying seems a bit of a waste for just 2 meters ? of difference. Well, i guess that's all that's needed with 2 evenly matched players.
Would've loved to watch the races after mine but i don't think you can expect the players to stream since it can be quite taxing on the pc and connection.
In order for this to start gaining some traction i think adding an esl official spectator who streams will make a big difference once real races start.


Quali is very important on some narrow tracks like Bathusrst, where one car can cover the whole track.

Half of the track is straights, where you can easily overtake with a faster car.

Quali was really a bit pointless at Bathurst because the grid is very tight. Will be different on other tracks though :D

Will upload the extract of my livestream later, quite nice races today and congratz to khaki ;)

GT-Club_Atho_
02-11-2015, 13:16
Is there a track vote for the monthly finals ?

TonyR
02-11-2015, 14:54
Is there a track vote for the monthly finals ?

And a track vote for next weeks Europe Cup? :D
Man, I'm so into this now that I get really impatient haha

Here's the recording of yesterday's event:
Quarter final, semi final, grand final and race for 3rd


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mmK2z2X6j4

Joseph Barron
02-11-2015, 14:55
Is there a track vote for the monthly finals ?

I believe that ESL is choosing the finals tracks by itself.

MarioCart
02-11-2015, 18:12
Half of the track is straights, where you can easily overtake with a faster car.

Quali was really a bit pointless at Bathurst because the grid is very tight. Will be different on other tracks though :D

Will upload the extract of my livestream later, quite nice races today and congratz to khaki ;)

If you will see the race Papand vs RamiBoo the you will see RamiBoo have faster car and Papand was controlling the space on stright, he made a mistake on some lap and RamiBoo did try to overtake him in 2nd corner, bad lack RamiBoo did not have mirror display so he did not know where is Papand so he get back the position,

If you will start the race from pole you would not be this much in front of khaki but you would be inside on first corner and the race could be yours,
Maybe giveing setup just before the race was own gool maybe not but was nice and brave.

Joseph Barron
03-11-2015, 16:28
ESL is changing the start time for next Sunday's Go4 Cup #6 to accommodate more players from the community.

The new start time for ESL Project CARS Go4 Cup #6 is 12:00pm (noon) CEST.

If you would prefer another time (or even another day) for future events, please let us know as we want as many people as possible to be able to take part.

CoTiNhO
03-11-2015, 16:38
oooh, i don't like the new hour, what happens with the lunch???? And this weekend is the MOTOGP final!!! jajaja I think the worst weekend to change the our jejeje

Maybe 15:00 could be best hour.

if starts at 12:00, that means the finals will play minimum at 15:00 if aren't reclamations and all goes well. I don't know in the rest of europe, but in spain we eat at 14:00 jejejeje

GT-Club_Atho_
03-11-2015, 17:02
Don't understand this time...

We all have things to do on a Sunday. The best time for me is a start at 5pm but at noon wow we have a life guys !!!

Papand
03-11-2015, 20:10
People will have things to do all the time. With entries dropping to the lowest since the start, the organisers have to try out new things or the whole thing ends up dying before it even started. I know this is not ideal for everyone and most prefer bigger grids aswell. But i encourage everyone to hold on and support this as much as possible, so we can have a future with Project Cars recognised as a proper e-sport.

CoTiNhO
03-11-2015, 21:45
People will have things to do all the time. With entries dropping to the lowest since the start, the organisers have to try out new things or the whole thing ends up dying before it even started. I know this is not ideal for everyone and most prefer bigger grids aswell. But i encourage everyone to hold on and support this as much as possible, so we can have a future with Project Cars recognised as a proper e-sport.

I know what do you mean. But no one competition starts 12:00 to 15:00. People need eat to survive jajaja And if you're playing, you aren't eating and vice versa. I think this hour will kill more people in the tournament than recruit!!! Specially this weekend with the MOTOGP final at 14:00 jajaja Will be an absolutely fail!

Joseph Barron
04-11-2015, 09:59
As Papand has said, it is important that we try new things to see what works best for the community.

After Cup 6, we are planning to start Cup 7 in an evening time slot. If either the earlier or later start proves to be more popular, then it is likely that it will become the norm in the future. If neither makes much of a difference, then we will go back to 3pm starts.

We will also be mixing up some of the other rules towards the end of this month, including giving you an opportunity to vote for the car classes that you want to race. As I have mentioned, the ESL will be testing some races with larger grids as well. The October finalists will be the first players asked to test this with the ESL very soon.

CoTiNhO
04-11-2015, 13:33
As Papand has said, it is important that we try new things to see what works best for the community.

After Cup 6, we are planning to start Cup 7 in an evening time slot. If either the earlier or later start proves to be more popular, then it is likely that it will become the norm in the future. If neither makes much of a difference, then we will go back to 3pm starts.

We will also be mixing up some of the other rules towards the end of this month, including giving you an opportunity to vote for the car classes that you want to race. As I have mentioned, the ESL will be testing some races with larger grids as well. The October finalists will be the first players asked to test this with the ESL very soon.

Awesome!!! Vote for default setups and no car helps for a pro league could be awesome too!!! Thanks!!!! :D

crowtrobot
04-11-2015, 13:53
10am EST was good for me in the US - let me get the tourney over and done with in the morning so I could get things done later in the day.

I think the falloff is probably normal, but probably also due to the format. Personally, I think the 1v1 setup is interesting, and it certainly makes the bracket easier to deal with, but it probably isn't the most encouraging system for newbies or slower drivers. The duration of your time involved in the weekend is almost random due to the seeding. You can go a few rounds if you get matched with people of similar skill, or you can get eliminated in one if you immediately get seeded with one of the top drivers. The competition itself is then closer to hotlapping, which isn't really the spirit of the game. Good to see that larger grids will be on the table moving forward, I think it will make things more interesting for the people driving, and hopefully make it more interesting for spectators as well.

CoTiNhO
05-11-2015, 15:42
Seriously???? Start this week at 12:00 without eat and during Motogp... not is the best demand of players, but sunday at 19:00.... in one of the final round of the championships... I think change the timetables during the championship is a irresponsibility. Because someone like me fighting for the 3º position could not participate. If the championship starts all the races at 16:00, may finish until last round at the same time. And a correct organization could change the hour for the next championship and the people could choose to play or not. That is a properly organization.
221469

crowtrobot
05-11-2015, 15:51
Cotinho has a good point - changing the times mid-series to gain people that haven't played isn't really fair to the people that have participated. Can't that be reverted until the month final is over?

FWIW, I'm probably in the minority as a US player, but there's no way I'm getting up at 0600 to enter this weekend, and it only gets earlier for people further west.

Joseph Barron
05-11-2015, 16:12
I appreciate CoTiNhO's point, but the organisers need to trial this as a one off sooner rather than later. Waiting until the next final is over would be at least another month before ESL gets the information it needs. It is also better to try this with the current group of players now, rather than with a larger, more established group in several months time, which would be more distruptive. Also, as I said before, the next Cup after this one will be a later start, most likely 7pm CET. After that, whichever time seems to be more popular will be the one ESL sticks to from then on.

Crowtrobot, these tournaments are currently aimed at people in Europe only. Specific brackets for US players with times and other rules more suited to North America will appear in the future.

FalkeGT
05-11-2015, 16:25
If the ESL team wants to know what time would suit players best, wouldn't it be a better idea to just ask the players than to "test"?
There's been a poll 1 or 2 weeks ago asking what players like and what not, is that poll still running or can you already present the result?

CoTiNhO
05-11-2015, 16:35
I appreciate too much the interest to find the best hour for all the players. But try ramdom hours in each week i think isn't the solution.

As the STAFF make polls for the tracks, it's too easy make polls to choose the hour. I organize championship in spain for 65 participants and only the idea to change the hour in the half of the championship seems terrorific.

In my situation, all my effort to try to get the 3º place will be for nothing because Sundays at 20:00 i'm playing the PS Plus League in spain where i'm 1º and i can't miss the race to get points.

I'm so sorry for these changes. Hope ESL keeps growing and make it better for all, i'm not agree but i understand. Thank you for the effort!

Joseph Barron
05-11-2015, 17:17
If the ESL team wants to know what time would suit players best, wouldn't it be a better idea to just ask the players than to "test"?
There's been a poll 1 or 2 weeks ago asking what players like and what not, is that poll still running or can you already present the result?

Unfortunately it isn't as simple as that, because you can never get every single player to answer a poll. The only know to way for sure how the entire group of players will respond is to try something. ESL is trying things like this to keep the tournament open to new players as well and there isn't a good way to poll people who haven't entered these events before.

Rest assured that the ESL is reading all of your comments, including those in this forum. I am also speaking to them multiple times every day to find the best solutions, acting on behalf of the community and SMS. We are still in the very early days with all of these competitions, but the improvements will keep coming. You can also be sure that if this time change doesn't have the desired effect, we won't be using the same time again.

TonyR
05-11-2015, 17:29
ICrowtrobot, these tournaments are currently aimed at people in Europe only. Specific brackets for US players with times and other rules more suited to North America will appear in the future.

I get the point but generally I'm not a big fan of separation. I really like that there are also US people in the boat (SMS didn't add too much US content to pCars so far so it's real nice to see some Americans at least)

Also, if the plan is to get more people participating in the cups it might not be wise to exclude certain continents with a probably big racing community. :)

Joseph Barron
05-11-2015, 17:33
I get the point but generally I'm not a big fan of separation. I really like that there are also US people in the boat (SMS didn't add too much US content to pCars so far so it's real nice to see some Americans at least)

Also, if the plan is to get more people participating in the cups it might not be wise to exclude certain continents with a probably big racing community. :)

The US will get its own Cups soon as I said. The laws covering competitions and prize giving vary a lot in different parts of the world, which is why ESL has to make specific adaptations for North American Go4 Cups.

Of course other things, such as start times, will also be much better for the American audience in the US Cups. There will be separate events designed to bring people from all continents together as well.

MarioCart
05-11-2015, 17:48
the human brain has best performance around 11.00 - 14.00 if the day did started around 7.00 this is fact, but we are players and we do force the play time even to unbeliveble time.

ESL can do the tests to what time to make the evens , but sunday not many player start the day at 7.00am shame last sunday I have started my day at 14.00pm so Bathurst was for me gone even if there was still time to enter my barain was not ready.

no mater what test they will do 19.00pm would be the most optimal time for most players and still enaugh time to finish before midnight

also Saturday might be beter option then Sunday as most people do have free time from work or shcool on sunday plus would give full day to for the player to get back good sense of humor.

FalkeGT
05-11-2015, 18:13
Unfortunately it isn't as simple as that, because you can never get every single player to answer a poll. The only know to way for sure how the entire group of players will respond is to try something. ESL is trying things like this to keep the tournament open to new players as well and there isn't a good way to poll people who haven't entered these events before.

With respect, but I think you are not right in this. There's a vote for each track and people vote - so to find a good time - that should work fine too.
And to involve the players who not already in there - start the poll where you advertise esl - here and on your hp.
(By the way you should check the points table on your hp - it doesn't match with the one on esl).

In my opinion you will drive even more people out of the event by the way you're doing it now.

I would also suggest to have a better presentation of the current & last cups standings and the results table. If I come to the cup page I would want to see who's on top and participating.
Currently you seem to hide such stuff more than to present it.

If you want something to be fun for all - then involve all.

PS:
Did you hear something regarding the poll and a result?

crowtrobot
05-11-2015, 19:05
The US will get its own Cups soon as I said. The laws covering competitions and prize giving vary a lot in different parts of the world, which is why ESL has to make specific adaptations for North American Go4 Cups.

Of course other things, such as start times, will also be much better for the American audience in the US Cups. There will be separate events designed to bring people from all continents together as well.
Thanks for the replies, Joseph. Legalities aside, I don't see the benefits to actively segregating the (already small) group of players that are interested in these online competitions.

Are there solid metrics implying that a later time will produce better turnout relative to Europe? At first glance, it would seem logical to me to try to be as globally inclusive at first, then spin-off localized leagues if the player burden gets too great.

At a glance, the turnout was ~10% NA users - my instinct would be that those numbers are a matter of interest/playerbase, not necessarily timing of the event, so a whole NA cup might not be a great solution. Personally, the old timing seemed pretty good for EST & maybe CST players, at least, here in America. It wasn't outrageously early, was over by the time football starts, left the day open for other Sunday activities, etc. Interest in the event itself should probably be at its peak now, since it is a new event, it was decently announced, removing that from the equation unless you guys project that word of mouth will increase the interest over time. Steamspy indicates that the NA base (including Brazil here) is less than that of only GER & UK combined (who accounted for at least 25% of the cup players), let alone the rest of Europe and Russia, and those numbers will likely only tail off over time with the big fall season games coming out.

Hope this doesn't come across as argumentative, just hoping to discuss and maybe gain some insight on the player demographics and your day-to-day duties.

PS: please don't hold off the NA cup until ovals come out assuming we don't know how to turn right over here - some of us do. ;)

Chexx
06-11-2015, 00:00
Hey,

Regarding the poll I already shared the results with SMS :) I know that changing the time isn't good and also not a big fan of it. Therefore rest assured that this wasn't an easy change but sometimes we just have to try things out.

Joseph Barron
06-11-2015, 10:12
As Chexx from ESL has said, they have the results of the survey and we are discussing some rules/format tweaks based on your responses. It is unlikely that the results of the survey will be made public, but we will be referring to them whenever we make any tweaks to the Cups in the near future.

Regarding the US Cups issue, we are not 'actively segregating' the community. Legally, the cash prizes in their current form cannot be offered in a global competition. If they could, the Cups would already be inclusive regardless of player location. This is why US players are able to enter the Europe Go4 Cups, but may not be eligible for prizes. Once ESL makes US Cups available, they will be able to offer cash prizes to US players as well. We are not trying to keep players from different parts of the world apart from each other, however unique Cups are the only way that cash prizes can be offered to all players from different continents. A similar pattern is used for all new games on the ESL service.

Regarding demographics and other metrics, this is not something that SMS or ESL can discuss publicly I'm afraid.

MrBlacky
06-11-2015, 14:15
Just received the email. Do I get this right, that the monthly final is a race with all competitors toghether - so no 1on1?

That's awesome!!

TonyR
06-11-2015, 14:32
Just received the email. Do I get this right, that the monthly final is a race with all competitors toghether - so no 1on1?

That's awesome!!

I'm looking forward to that as well :D

One question though, will we be able to change the car between the two races?

MrBlacky
06-11-2015, 14:44
These two races will be epic:D

edit: Oh, and you have to stream this one!

milliotseb
07-11-2015, 08:46
looking forward to the monthly final

Joseph Barron
07-11-2015, 12:38
Just received the email. Do I get this right, that the monthly final is a race with all competitors toghether - so no 1on1?

That's awesome!!

That's correct. The October final is the first test by ESL of larger fields and longer races.

Joseph Barron
07-11-2015, 12:40
These two races will be epic:D

edit: Oh, and you have to stream this one!

ESL and SMS have lined up a popular Project CARS YouTuber to host the PC Finals. He will be posting a TV-style commentated video of the action on his channel shortly after the finals.

Joseph Barron
07-11-2015, 12:41
I'm looking forward to that as well :D

One question though, will we be able to change the car between the two races?

You'll have to check the rules with ESL. I believe there are some small changes to the normal Cup rules to accommodate the larger grids.

TonyR
07-11-2015, 14:13
You'll have to check the rules with ESL. I believe there are some small changes to the normal Cup rules to accommodate the larger grids.

It doesn't say anything about car selection other than "all GT3s without DLC cars".


ESL and SMS have lined up a popular Project CARS YouTuber to host the PC Finals. He will be posting a TV-style commentated video of the action on his channel shortly after the finals.

I'm also going to stream that so maybe the "popular Youtuber" can use my view as a camera option as well if he wants to :D

Joseph Barron
07-11-2015, 15:44
It doesn't say anything about car selection other than "all GT3s without DLC cars".



I'm also going to stream that so maybe the "popular Youtuber" can use my view as a camera option as well if he wants to :D

Regarding the cars, if the lobby has to drop and be re-hosted between races, then you will probably have a chance to change cars, otherwise I'd imagine you'll be in the same car in both races.

The YouTuber in question will actually be hosting the races in the PC finals so that he can capture the action from the spectator cameras.

TonyR
08-11-2015, 18:37
Hi guys. I guess you have already seen that there were only 20 people in the Cup today :/

I guess many didn't even know that the time was changed. Also the overlapping with MotoGP, hm, really sad to see so less players in the Cup.
Positive side on that though: Starting with Round 32 shortened the Tournament to a nice length. We didn't have to sit down for 4 hours this time ;)

Joseph Barron
09-11-2015, 09:54
It's unlikely that ESL will use the 12pm CET start time again. I expect ESL will try a later time next weekend, and then go back to the original 3pm CET time if the later one has a similar effect to the early time.

TonyR
09-11-2015, 10:54
It's unlikely that ESL will use the 12pm CET start time again. I expect ESL will try a later time next weekend, and then go back to the original 3pm CET time if the later one has a similar effect to the early time.

One thing which came to my mind regarding the time changes: I have the feeling we think the target group for the ESL Cups is Sub-20 in age and is just able to get to the tournament whenever it is happening.

However in Reality people who are driving there are older, they have family, they have jobs. When the time changes they need to reorganize their day so that's not done just like that.

Not sure if that's just my fantasy, only a thought :D :D

Joseph Barron
09-11-2015, 10:56
One thing which came to my mind regarding the time changes: I have the feeling we think the target group for the ESL Cups is Sub-20 in age and is just able to get to the tournament whenever it is happening.

However in Reality people who are driving there are older, they have family, they have jobs. When the time changes they need to reorganize their day so that's not done just like that.

Not sure if that's just my fantasy, only a thought :D :D

This is something we have discussed as well. Rest assured, we and ESL are considering all sorts of information in our efforts to improve the tournaments :)

Joseph Barron
09-11-2015, 12:35
Hi everyone.

ESL has confirmed an evening start time for Go4 Cup 7 on Sunday November 15.

Go4 Cup 7 will start at 7pm CET (6pm GMT), with check-in opening at 6:30pm CET (5:30pm GMT).

Depending on how this effects participation, we may stick with this time in future, or revert back to the usual 3pm CET start time.

CoTiNhO
09-11-2015, 13:52
Hi everyone.

ESL has confirmed an evening start time for Go4 Cup 7 on Sunday November 15.

Go4 Cup 7 will start at 7pm CET (6pm GMT), with check-in opening at 6:30pm CET (5:30pm GMT).

Depending on how this effects participation, we may stick with this time in future, or revert back to the usual 3pm CET start time.

I hope revert back to 15:00 GMT or even 14:00 GMT, that's would give us time to eat, play and enjoy with our people the rest of the sunday! :D

TonyR
09-11-2015, 14:35
My recording from yesterday, if you are interested :)
Although having only 19 people who checked in the competition was great. 6 people with appr. the same pace, that's one third of all participants ! :D :P


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN2r66fTPmk

CoTiNhO
09-11-2015, 20:46
Why not to play the final with DEFAULT SETUP??? I spoke with some finalist and all think the cup would be better if we play with DEFAULT SETUP.

Pros:
-No spending time tuning the car
-Same opportunities to these people who works all day and don't have time to setup the car
-The real best driver will win and no excuses to loose
-More spectacle

Why not??? Who support this??? :D

TonyR
09-11-2015, 22:27
Why not to play the final with DEFAULT SETUP??? I spoke with some finalist and all think the cup would be better if we play with DEFAULT SETUP.

Pros:
-No spending time tuning the car
-Same opportunities to these people who works all day and don't have time to setup the car
-The real best driver will win and no excuses to loose
-More spectacle

Why not??? Who support this??? :D

- The time on setup work for me is usually 1 to 2 hours. However the time to get faster on a track starts at 3 hours (with a big + for the last tenths).
- What defines the best driver? Only the driving? Or also the dedication and knowledge which goes into creating a setup?
- Many setup changes are more a "personal thing", to adjust the car to your likings, it's not always to get a faster car.
- "Force Default setup" in pCars lacks completely right now. Brake ducts and Brake Bias are not adjustable, both settings which can make a car unusable on some tracks, for example in Imola the Aston brakes would be overheating from the 2nd lap ongoing making them quite useless.

Just my thoughts on that.

CoTiNhO
10-11-2015, 01:02
- The time on setup work for me is usually 1 to 2 hours. However the time to get faster on a track starts at 3 hours (with a big + for the last tenths).
- What defines the best driver? Only the driving? Or also the dedication and knowledge which goes into creating a setup?
- Many setup changes are more a "personal thing", to adjust the car to your likings, it's not always to get a faster car.
- "Force Default setup" in pCars lacks completely right now. Brake ducts and Brake Bias are not adjustable, both settings which can make a car unusable on some tracks, for example in Imola the Aston brakes would be overheating from the 2nd lap ongoing making them quite useless.

Just my thoughts on that.

For me the best driver in a video game is defined only by driving skills.

its difficult to considerate a guy who make 2 or 3 hours training setup with a car 1 sec faster better than other guy who only need 2 or 3 laps to find the hop lap with a data base car.

In my opinion... One is the fastest setup driver and the other is the fastest real driver. It's 2 categories. It's 2 valid ways, one of them love to win with superior car and the other love to win only with the hands on the track. :D

MrBlacky
10-11-2015, 12:35
Well, then we can cancel the car choice as well. If you want the fastest driver when it comes down to driving only, there is no way you can beat a SLS on Monza with the Z4 in default setup (for example). You get my point?

It's not that all the cars handle the same when you force default setup. It only brings same cars on the same level.

CoTiNhO
10-11-2015, 13:02
Well, then we can cancel the car choice as well. If you want the fastest driver when it comes down to driving only, there is no way you can beat a SLS on Monza with the Z4 in default setup (for example). You get my point?

It's not that all the cars handle the same when you force default setup. It only brings same cars on the same level.

Yes, you're on the right point! But with setup is the same problem. Are you sure Z4 could beat a SLS with setup in monza??? i think the difference is bigger with setup! jejeje

it's the same problem in that case with setup and whitout it. You are the same suicide running with Z4 in both cases! jejeje Same car for all would be a great solution.

I thought a lot about this and 2 categories cup would be awesome. One cup for the Setup players and one cup for the Default Setup players. Even the Default Setup cup without price i think will get more people than the Setup cup. And obviously without ABS and helps.

Lots of people who leaves the cup was because are bored to race with a car 1 or 1,5secs slower per lap. Honestly i don't think the hour is the problem. And the prices aren't the problem. Who really enjoy playing, don't care about 50€. The people want competitive races regardless the result, win or loose if the race is 100% equal.

And if the brakes got hot in the second lap, got hot for all. You have in your hands the way to manage that better than others to win. :D

TonyR
10-11-2015, 14:09
Yes, you're on the right point! But with setup is the same problem. Are you sure Z4 could beat a SLS with setup in monza??? i think the difference is bigger with setup! jejeje

it's the same problem in that case with setup and whitout it. You are the same suicide running with Z4 in both cases! jejeje Same car for all would be a great solution.

I thought a lot about this and 2 categories cup would be awesome. One cup for the Setup players and one cup for the Default Setup players. Even the Default Setup cup without price i think will get more people than the Setup cup. And obviously without ABS and helps.

Lots of people who leaves the cup was because are bored to race with a car 1 or 1,5secs slower per lap. Honestly i don't think the hour is the problem. And the prices aren't the problem. Who really enjoy playing, don't care about 50€. The people want competitive races regardless the result, win or loose if the race is 100% equal.

And if the brakes got hot in the second lap, got hot for all. You have in your hands the way to manage that better than others to win. :D

I don't really get your point to be honest. Do you seriously think when F1-Masa is a second faster than you with custom Setups that will change in any way with default setups?
No, believe me, he will still be a second faster.

CoTiNhO
10-11-2015, 14:46
I don't really get your point to be honest. Do you seriously think when F1-Masa is a second faster than you with custom Setups that will change in any way with default setups?
No, believe me, he will still be a second faster.

This isn't real, this isn't F1 and no one of us are Massa ;D This is a game :D

Chexx
11-11-2015, 22:59
Hey guys,

How did you like the Monthly Final with Grid Racing? Interested in your feedback!

TonyR
11-11-2015, 23:59
Hey guys,

How did you like the Monthly Final with Grid Racing? Interested in your feedback!

Except for my pace being almost a second slower than in practice, everything was fine :D

There's still the problem with the standing starts causing some cars being very slow off the grid and some lagging issues were reported but all in all a nice event in my opinion.

Only the Wednesday start time could clash with one or another league in the future :)

GT-Club_Atho_
12-11-2015, 06:14
Hi Chexx !

I really enjoy our two races on Ps4. We have great fight all the races without any problem.
15 laps is great and 19h00 too because we have disconnection on race 2 but we dont finish too late.

MrBlacky
12-11-2015, 08:15
To fight the "lag issues" I would host these races on server in the future.

And the new format is way better than the old one!

Yorkie065
12-11-2015, 12:34
To fight the "lag issues" I would host these races on server in the future.

And the new format is way better than the old one!

Agree! The dedicated servers are much more stable than using pier to pier and it does help with any lag as it's less likely.

Perhaps it would be possible to incorporate grouped races earlier in the format? At perhaps quarter or semi final stages, and then top remaining 6 in a 3 race final? Although I would make the races shorter for the normal weekly finals, probably between 5-8 laps depending on the length of the circuit and do 3 races with the one having the most points the winner?

CoTiNhO
12-11-2015, 17:49
The race was so good! As i said, with default setups i think could be better fighting until last lap in a group :D Anyway i like this kind of compete and i agree the purpose of yorkie!!! And if you add one cup with default setup, random cars and random tracks to play without time to practice before the Cup hour... You will have the best racing tournament ever!!! With that rules much more people will compete :D

About the round 7, i think 24 players registered until now show how the organization collision with the real GPrix. Because last week the time of the cup crash with the MOTOGP final and this week crash with the F1 brazilian GP. I think if was on the oposite order, maybe ESL could probe better new timetables.

CoTiNhO
12-11-2015, 18:50
And one more thing about the race. I didn't want to say until today because i don't want to influence on the results. All the players played fast and good.

This is a constructive critique for the organization who needs to put an observer at least in the finals because things like this can't be tolerable.

Starting lap 2 one of the players loose the control at eau rouge and broke the car and mysteriously after the crash leave the game and send a text message saying the game was closed suddenly. Really???? What is the probability to close the game by bug just in the instant what you had broken your car???? Well, this situation forced all to restart the race and all the advantage i had gain, was lost.

I repeat, i'm not complain for change this results. But i don't like when happens this kind of thins and if is a final, at least ESL may have one observer to make a control about things like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnGJDf_XhK0

MarioCart
13-11-2015, 16:44
And one more thing about the race. I didn't want to say until today because i don't want to influence on the results. All the players played fast and good.

This is a constructive critique for the organization who needs to put an observer at least in the finals because things like this can't be tolerable.

Starting lap 2 one of the players loose the control at eau rouge and broke the car and mysteriously after the crash leave the game and send a text message saying the game was closed suddenly. Really???? What is the probability to close the game by bug just in the instant what you had broken your car???? Well, this situation forced all to restart the race and all the advantage i had gain, was lost.

I repeat, i'm not complain for change this results. But i don't like when happens this kind of thins and if is a final, at least ESL may have one observer to make a control about things like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnGJDf_XhK0

On this video its clare that DriverR1 lost his car , then he hit the wall (car brocken, no chance to get back 1st position with damage)
Then he just quit the loby.

And you saying he sent you message that the game did close suddenly???????

I know it hapend somtimes

But I hope DriverR1 have some proof of this to ask for restart, and I hope he will not make any problem by publishing his car view and video of this race at SPA on forum.

Or we can say that this was simply a cheat.

I like to win every race but I know how to lose, with face up.

CoTiNhO
13-11-2015, 18:25
On this video its clare that DriverR1 lost his car , then he hit the wall (car brocken, no chance to get back 1st position with damage)
Then he just quit the loby.

And you saying he sent you message that the game did close suddenly???????

I know it hapend somtimes

But I hope DriverR1 have some proof of this to ask for restart, and I hope he will not make any problem by publishing his car view and video of this race at SPA on forum.

Or we can say that this was simply a cheat.

I like to win every race but I know how to lose, with face up.

Nope, he didn't provided any proof because the host who we can see get a penalty in the "chicane" and loose positions, accept to restart without demand the proof. Even restarting after 2 minutes, when the rules says, you only can restart until 2 minutes from start. But i'm saying again, it's not fault of them, it's fault of the organization for don't have any observer or someone in the lobby taking control of this kind of "histories", suppose it an European Final! jejejeje

MarioCart
13-11-2015, 19:54
Nope, he didn't provided any proof because the host who we can see get a penalty in the "chicane" and loose positions, accept to restart without demand the proof. Even restarting after 2 minutes, when the rules says, you only can restart until 2 minutes from start. But i'm saying again, it's not fault of them, it's fault of the organization for don't have any observer or someone in the lobby taking control of this kind of "histories", suppose it an European Final! jejejeje

No mater who was the host if you in the race and the game suddenly crash you have 15 min to press the share button to record what hapen.
And this I would like to see no matter the ESL rules coz we like to play with honor and fair play.

every think can happen in the race, colision, contact, lost connection ...... but we should follow some rules of respect.

A very nice example is Tony, in the video he post, second race he did overtake his opponent but he had a contact, as a gentelmen he let his opponent back on 1st position

Patrick Kulinski
14-11-2015, 11:03
Maybe the ESL really should consider looking for judges who supervise such events, f.e. four people so that you have some basic control over the events with complete coverage starting in the quarterfinal stages. I did a similar job in the TGC races for a while (more track marshal than race director though) and I'd be willing to do that again. And TBH I can't imagine that I'd be the only one who'd volunteer.

MarioCart
14-11-2015, 16:44
Maybe the ESL really should consider looking for judges who supervise such events, f.e. four people so that you have some basic control over the events with complete coverage starting in the quarterfinal stages. I did a similar job in the TGC races for a while (more track marshal than race director though) and I'd be willing to do that again. And TBH I can't imagine that I'd be the only one who'd volunteer.
Yes would be good idea, but even with marshal in race we need to have clare rules what we can do in race what we canot.
We know that the driver in front can make one defence move, now how many moves can make the driver from behind and what contact are allowed what not allowed.

But in this case we can't tolerate any cheats.

Now ESL please give as any proof of the first race to be restarted because DriverR1 game did crash.

Or DriverR1 be a honor man and post a proof.

Because I don't want to race with people they want to win of all cost.


ps. pozdro ziom

Joseph Barron
16-11-2015, 09:39
Hi everyone. Thank you again for sharing so much detailed feedback and discussion with us and ESL.

How did you find the 7pm CET start time yesterday? Was it more convenient for you compared to the normal 4pm time, or would you rather return to that?

TonyR
16-11-2015, 11:19
Hi everyone. Thank you again for sharing so much detailed feedback and discussion with us and ESL.

How did you find the 7pm CET start time yesterday? Was it more convenient for you compared to the normal 4pm time, or would you rather return to that?

For me personally it doesn't matter if 4 or 5 or 6 or 7pm but I know some people who can't drive at 7pm because they need to get up early on Monday and driving from 7pm to 11pm isn't exactly good for going to sleep early.

That brings me to a much bigger problem than the starting time. I think we need to change the format as soon as possible. Motivation is fluctuating immensely among the participants I know. The 1 on 1 system is getting very boring. Proper races need to be instated else I'm pretty of sure the number of participants will get lower and lower or at least there won't be any more participants.

Joseph Barron
16-11-2015, 11:49
Thanks Tony. As we've said before, races with larger fields have now been tested by ESL, in the recent October Finals. I'm hopeful that we can start to move towards this for more races soon.

CoTiNhO
16-11-2015, 12:20
Hi everyone. Thank you again for sharing so much detailed feedback and discussion with us and ESL.

How did you find the 7pm CET start time yesterday? Was it more convenient for you compared to the normal 4pm time, or would you rather return to that?

I think the better time is at the first of the morning like 10h or 11h, so you have all the day free after that. Or just finishing eat like 14:00 or 15:00 to have free the rest of the day. That's hours of the real races :D

About the ruleset, i think bigger grids with more laps makes better races :D And if finally someday ESL create the random cup, will have the best cup ever. No one may know the car and track until the bracket and default setup. jejeje Sounds weird, but i've managing one cup with that rules and all keep growing week per week, we've already 86 active participants each week and growing!!!
Why do you think my cup without prices is growing all weeks while ESL is going down??? Easy, if you only have time to play the weekend or a bit during the week as the most of people, you will feel demotivated to fight with a guy who has more than 3 or 4 hours on the same track. In this kind of cup all the people are with the 100% same opportunities and all the people feels they can win.

You can try it even without prices and you will see how this type of cup will grow each week.

Thanks for hear us! :D

GT-Club_Atho_
16-11-2015, 13:13
I Think best time is 5pm or 6pm to have the evening free.

Races with 6 guys, 2 on the next stage and 4 eliminations. If possible random track and random car with defaut setup.

Fuel and tyre wear have to be on, like on the monthly finals.

crowtrobot
16-11-2015, 13:17
Hi everyone. Thank you again for sharing so much detailed feedback and discussion with us and ESL.

How did you find the 7pm CET start time yesterday? Was it more convenient for you compared to the normal 4pm time, or would you rather return to that?
Time was fine for me, the normal 4pm CET time was a little bit better, but either was better than the 1pm time. Looking forward to the group races!

gmspromo
16-11-2015, 14:06
Hi everyone. Thank you again for sharing so much detailed feedback and discussion with us and ESL.

How did you find the 7pm CET start time yesterday? Was it more convenient for you compared to the normal 4pm time, or would you rather return to that?

To be honest, you could ask this question a million times to a million different people and no one would ever be happy!! I took part yesterday (which was 6pm GMT) and it was okay. I have two young kids and I could have done with it starting an hour or two later, but I coped with it. If it's the same time next week I plan to try and take part as well.

One thing that's a little annoying though and should perhaps be changed to make things fairer or should I say clearer, is highlighting whether custom car set-ups are allowed or not. I was beaten by someone in the initial round who was around 1-1.5 seconds a lap quicker than me (I drove the McLaren GT3, they drove the Audi) and as I was using the default car set-up. I'd love to know if they were or not.
I've been looking into car tuning in PCars today because I know I'm not slow and it wasn't until this morning that I discovered the camber "bug", where setting it at or close to 0.0 all round gives quite a lot of performance. I didn't realise how much until I tried the McLaren GT3 around Laguna Seca again today ... I don't know if I would have beaten my opponent in the ESL yesterday, but I would have been pretty much on a par on pace!!! I'm not sure it's completely fair if all those taking part don't know little tricks such as the camber settings issue. I'm not overly annoyed, I'm just giving my opinion in the hope things can be highlighted, fixed or changed to make the racing a bit closer and more fair.

Are there plans to run a cup with only default set-ups allowed??

Joseph Barron
16-11-2015, 14:13
I have actually spoken to ESL about default setups already today. We have asked them to make sure 'Force Fixed Setup' is turned on for the next Cup and made clear in the rules.

gmspromo
16-11-2015, 14:18
I have actually spoken to ESL about default setups already today. We have asked them to make sure 'Force Fixed Setup' is turned on for the next Cup and made clear in the rules.

Excellent stuff .. Default Settings being turned off just wasn't clear and got lost in a long list of rules and settings on the ESL page, I only looked after my race and spotted it.
It should help for closer, more fair racing ..

crowtrobot
16-11-2015, 14:47
Eh, I think Tony is right about the faster people and default setups: they're still going to be seconds faster than most drivers. It's just a matter of putting in practice time in a different area - either you're spending time tweaking the setup or putting in extra reps on the track. My preference is to leave the setups open, as it should hopefully push people to tinker themselves and learn - but if people are discouraged from racing because of having to tune to be competitive, then it's probably more important to get people playing.

CoTiNhO
16-11-2015, 15:27
I have actually spoken to ESL about default setups already today. We have asked them to make sure 'Force Fixed Setup' is turned on for the next Cup and made clear in the rules.

Awesome news Joseph!!! And if ESL try to agree random tracks and cars for each round announcing the car and the track at the same moment they announce the opponent. For sure all of us well se the best races and not the best engineers or trainers who made 3 hours runing on the same track. jejeje :D I love people who only need 2 laps to be on the limit, that's the people who i don't mind to loose :D

TonyR
16-11-2015, 17:16
I won't comment on the "force default setup" thing, you already know my opinion on that..

Here's my rather short ESL Cup #7 experience, only one round against Damian in the SLS and it was over, but fun nonetheless.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmR8ArCDLLk&index=1&list=PLzaqKYqJl0uUi-pNqK80ie6ZwuDHeNM30

ONT
16-11-2015, 23:04
Good to see that "fixed car setting" is discussed, iRacing use both fixed series racing AND open setting, simply 2 series catering to both camp's :)

CoTiNhO
22-11-2015, 12:31
Heeey!!!! Why now the cup says it's at 19:00??????? It was programmed to 16:00 spanish hour!!!!

CoTiNhO
22-11-2015, 12:47
When i signed for the cup this week, was for 16:00, and now ESL put 19:00 without any reason to change that!!! And even you can see 16:00 in some places of the site!!! I can't understand this changes. What is the interest??? Finish at 23:00¿¿??? I don´t know

222482222483

Papand
22-11-2015, 21:30
With default setup i feel you promote only one car. On Imola the Aston seems far stronger than the rest of the field. The better straight line speed also makes it easy to overtake on the straight. I drive the RUF and out of the box the car simply cant keep up versus the Aston on Imola at least. With setups i could do alot of things to counter that, but now its simply impossible. Should this rule change be kept, im signing out for now and spend my racing time elsewhere. A big thanks for some great races with ESL.

TonyR
22-11-2015, 23:10
Some thoughts about tonight's cup:

1. Length of the Event.
Of course there were technical issues today nobody could change. However the even't is just too long. I was streaming 5 and a half hours and had only 4 races in that time. THat's just too long, too long for my back, too long for stream viewers, too long.
Also many people complained about the time today, some needed to go to sleep early because of work tomorrow, or even exams.
I mean the starting time would be okay, if the event was only 2 or maximum 3 hours in length.

2. Default Setup. Not sure if I need to talk much about that. Same guys were fast, same guys were slow. The only thing the Default setup brought us was that we couldn't change our personal comfort settings (like FFB which is set up in the car setups) or differential settings which some guys need to change to be able to drive cars with older/cheaper wheels or gamepads/keyboard.

Once again, I recommend to change the race format as soon as possible.
While the ESL Homepage was down we drove two practice races. There wer 6 to 8 people in the races, they were fun and they were exciting.
My proposal is, copy the Rallycross format: http://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/about
(4 Heats / two semi-finals / one final)
Obviously 4 Heats would be too long again, but 2 heats maybe?

graveltrap
22-11-2015, 23:29
Supposedly you can use your own FFB settings when force default setup is used, you just need to create the setup for the car before hand (including FFB of course) and save it to the track. The game pulls the FFB settings from your saved setup only forcing the car setup parameters to default.

gmspromo
23-11-2015, 08:20
Some thoughts about tonight's cup:

1. Length of the Event.
Of course there were technical issues today nobody could change. However the even't is just too long. I was streaming 5 and a half hours and had only 4 races in that time. THat's just too long, too long for my back, too long for stream viewers, too long.
Also many people complained about the time today, some needed to go to sleep early because of work tomorrow, or even exams.
I mean the starting time would be okay, if the event was only 2 or maximum 3 hours in length.

2. Default Setup. Not sure if I need to talk much about that. Same guys were fast, same guys were slow. The only thing the Default setup brought us was that we couldn't change our personal comfort settings (like FFB which is set up in the car setups) or differential settings which some guys need to change to be able to drive cars with older/cheaper wheels or gamepads/keyboard.

Once again, I recommend to change the race format as soon as possible.
While the ESL Homepage was down we drove two practice races. There wer 6 to 8 people in the races, they were fun and they were exciting.
My proposal is, copy the Rallycross format: http://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/about
(4 Heats / two semi-finals / one final)
Obviously 4 Heats would be too long again, but 2 heats maybe?


Just a few comments about this ... the length of the event is dictated by how long it takes some of the guys to race and enter their results. Obviously this was not helped by the ESL website issues which just prolonged matters yesterday and prevented people from seeing who their actual opponents were.

Regarding default set-ups, I have to completely disagree with the comment here. I was able to compete at a very close level, only losing to the outright winner (SDL Mihalo) by less than a couple of seconds. I would not have been able to do this if custom set-ups were allowed! I can drive, I'm just not a car tuner and if they are enabled again, I stand no chance, and neither will others who don't spend or have the time to spend tuning cars for hours and hours a week.

I know someone else said the Aston was the king of this track compared to other cars - it certainly had the straight line speed compared to the McLaren GT3 I was driving ... perhaps the other option to consider is to allow a vote on a particular car each week as well?

Joseph Barron
23-11-2015, 09:31
Hi everyone. ESL and I would like to apologise for the difficulties with the website yesterday. These things can happen from time-to-time unfortunately, but their team worked hard on a Sunday to get things working again as quickly as they could. The length of yesterday's event was increased because of the initial website problem and then some slowness for people to find opponents, as players gradually returned to the site after learning it was fixed. This shouldn't happen in future.

Regarding larger grids: ESL is now actively working towards a solution for this. However, it will require some changes to their website and admin tools in order to make it run smoothly. Please be patient while ESL works this out. We will share more updates and news about this as soon as we can.

TonyR
23-11-2015, 11:33
I was able to compete at a very close level, only losing to the outright winner (SDL Mihalo) by less than a couple of seconds.

As far as the PC event is concerned gaps didn't change. Some guys struggled keeping the car on track because the default setups are mostly more difficult to drive or on the other side have too much downforce.


Just a few comments about this ... the length of the event is dictated by how long it takes some of the guys to race and enter their results. Obviously this was not helped by the ESL website issues which just prolonged matters yesterday and prevented people from seeing who their actual opponents were.

I did mean that in General. All Events were as lengthy as 4 hours so far. Everybody I know says it's boring.

Don't take me wrong, I want to help making the event better, I don't want to discredit it.

Anyway, here's yesterday's PC Final:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8QIur0m_K4


Regarding larger grids: ESL is now actively working towards a solution for this. However, it will require some changes to their website and admin tools in order to make it run smoothly. Please be patient while ESL works this out. We will share more updates and news about this as soon as we can.

Nice to hear!

gmspromo
23-11-2015, 12:12
Anyway, here's yesterday's PC Final:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8QIur0m_K4



Nice to see I'm not the only one who gets annoyed at himself for missing apexes .. although you were polite, I swear to myself! :D

TonyR
23-11-2015, 12:14
Nice to see I'm not the only one who gets annoyed at himself for missing apexes .. although you were polite, I swear to myself! :D

You have not yet seen the point were I get the cut track penalty, did you? :D :D :D

gmspromo
23-11-2015, 12:16
You have not yet seen the point were I get the cut track penalty, did you? :D :D :D

Okay, mostly polite! :D

crowtrobot
23-11-2015, 13:57
Regarding default set-ups, I have to completely disagree with the comment here. I was able to compete at a very close level, only losing to the outright winner (SDL Mihalo) by less than a couple of seconds. I would not have been able to do this if custom set-ups were allowed! I can drive, I'm just not a car tuner and if they are enabled again, I stand no chance, and neither will others who don't spend or have the time to spend tuning cars for hours and hours a week.

I initially was against the default setups, but I think they are helpful, as gmspromo says, at making the competition better. Yes, the same people are fast, but I think the differentials were smaller with the default setups (from my own experience and from talking to a few people). I was able to keep good pace with Papand, who I'm sure would have destroyed me on a custom setup. Instead we had a good clean race, and I was able to stay close enough to keep him honest.

Papand made a good point about only one car being viable on a given track with the custom setup, but given that there are setup exploits (bugs and unconventional setups that can be bolstered by enabling of aids), I think it's a fair tradeoff. It only takes a few laps of practice to cycle through the "good" GT3 cars and figure out which one will produce the best results.

I introduced a coworker to the ESL and he was pretty geared up for the competition, but was pretty disappointed when a day or so of practice culminated in a loss in a 8 min race. Looking forward to the group races, hopefully it will give people a more interesting experience with some better opportunity.

CoTiNhO
23-11-2015, 18:30
This week, will be this time or ESL will change again without reason?
222521

TonyR
23-11-2015, 19:59
This week, will be this time or ESL will change again without reason?
222521

PC says 19:00 CET start time, I would like to exchange the starting times with PS4 if possible :D As I won't be able to make it at 19:00 on Sunday.

Joseph Barron
23-11-2015, 20:47
This week, will be this time or ESL will change again without reason?
222521

I believe it will be 7pm again next weekend. I will ask ESL to make sure the default times on the website are updated.

CoTiNhO
23-11-2015, 21:18
I believe it will be 7pm again next weekend. I will ask ESL to make sure the default times on the website are updated.

Last week, the same problem. I signed on monday, did my plans for the sunday and when i see the sunday morning the hour was changed for 19:00. For that reason i'm asking for this week jeje Will be always at 19:00???

ADR_LONDON
23-11-2015, 21:28
That's who I was overtaken on the final lap of the ESL race last night

I did a protest but I was told to race him again.
LOL race him again, no fun racing a driver who thinks he's playing Mario cart

https://youtu.be/2CmWkWCc_gg


https://youtu.be/DTmBNz7CVS0

Joseph Barron
23-11-2015, 22:07
Last week, the same problem. I signed on monday, did my plans for the sunday and when i see the sunday morning the hour was changed for 19:00. For that reason i'm asking for this week jeje Will be always at 19:00???

For the time being ESL is sticking with the 7pm start time for Sunday events. We will notify you if that changes in the future.

CoTiNhO
23-11-2015, 23:11
That's who I was overtaken on the final lap of the ESL race last night

I did a protest but I was told to race him again.
LOL race him again, no fun racing a driver who thinks he's playing Mario cart

https://youtu.be/2CmWkWCc_gg


https://youtu.be/DTmBNz7CVS0

Absolutely clean!!! jajaja (Ironic mode ON) :D

Papand
24-11-2015, 13:03
I initially was against the default setups, but I think they are helpful, as gmspromo says, at making the competition better. Yes, the same people are fast, but I think the differentials were smaller with the default setups (from my own experience and from talking to a few people). I was able to keep good pace with Papand, who I'm sure would have destroyed me on a custom setup. Instead we had a good clean race, and I was able to stay close enough to keep him honest.

Papand made a good point about only one car being viable on a given track with the custom setup, but given that there are setup exploits (bugs and unconventional setups that can be bolstered by enabling of aids), I think it's a fair tradeoff. It only takes a few laps of practice to cycle through the "good" GT3 cars and figure out which one will produce the best results.

I agree default setups will make the difference between top and bottom smaller. But with this we are forced to pick the same car if we wanna keep up and it totally removes one of Project Cars main qualities; the great range of cars, especially within the GT3 class. I think that talks against what Project Cars really is. We dumb things down and make the game compare with Grid or even Need for Speed. I dont think this is the right way to go. Would be much better helping everyone to get on top of the initial steep learning curve releated to the setups. It will make them enjoy the game alot more going forward and help achieve a much smoother transition going from ESL to try out proper league racing. This is what generate a long lasting user base. Jumping the fence where its lowest will not.

With default setups there are quite a lot of tricks the experienced players can use to go faster. A few hours before the start it was discovered to be much faster turning TC off - how many new guys would do that? This alone would almost generate the same difference as zero chambers. Its just a question of time before the experienced players will discover even more tricks.

Remove the default setup lock. Make 8-10 man grids. Thats the way to go as i see it. For the new guys i strongly encurage to have a look at some setup videos to understand the basics - TonyR is a great source for this. Im also always open to give out setups and make a few videos myself to help others out. In the long run i think its much better for the community.

Joseph Barron
26-11-2015, 15:22
Hi everyone.

One of the popular comments in the results of ESL's survey, was that you guys would like to change the car class from time-to-time.

You can now vote for the cars you want to drive in the December Cups!

Have your say at:
http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/13936/new-car-class-for-go4-starting-decemb

gmspromo
27-11-2015, 14:53
Hi everyone.

One of the popular comments in the results of ESL's survey, was that you guys would like to change the car class from time-to-time.

You can now vote for the cars you want to drive in the December Cups!

Have your say at:
http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/13936/new-car-class-for-go4-starting-decemb

I note this vote is getting a lot of flack on the ESL forum ... mostly from those who drive nothing else but GT3 (jeez, try out some different cars from time to time will you!) ... and there are also those moaning about the default set-up being enabled. Funnily enough, the moaning is coming from those drivers who are no longer dominating in the ESL Go4 cups and want their unfair advantage back, which just goes to prove a point that default set-ups create closer racing!!! Keep it that way, please!

JoeDogs
28-11-2015, 13:11
Are there any rules for blocking. It should be! Blocking you more than 2-3 times you'll lose points

Joseph Barron
28-11-2015, 18:36
Are there any rules for blocking. It should be! Blocking you more than 2-3 times you'll lose points

ESL is definitely speaking to players about this kind of thing after any disputed results.

GT-Club_Atho_
29-11-2015, 21:51
PS4 Final :very_drunk:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T0Z1cVhsQ0

Papand
29-11-2015, 23:12
I note this vote is getting a lot of flack on the ESL forum ... mostly from those who drive nothing else but GT3 (jeez, try out some different cars from time to time will you!) ... and there are also those moaning about the default set-up being enabled. Funnily enough, the moaning is coming from those drivers who are no longer dominating in the ESL Go4 cups and want their unfair advantage back, which just goes to prove a point that default set-ups create closer racing!!! Keep it that way, please!

Moaning? Unfair advantage?

We are alot of guys from the community who voice our concern. We are the same guys who have been supportive all the way and just try to provide our feedback. So why on earth do you attack us with that kind of tone?

How can setups EVER be considered an unfair advantage? Most of us even make our setups public and are more than happy to help out. So i dont see where this is coming from. You also seem to have the idea results have changed because of this? I can say that on PC this have not been the case. An upset here and there like before, but the same guys are still making their way to the top. Personally ive decided to stay out of ESL for now, since the default setup change would have forced me to take a specific car. I dont like that. I already made further case on why default setups are a bad idea earlier in the thread.

CoTiNhO
30-11-2015, 10:53
Hope to see the cup at 16:00 again!

Joseph Barron
03-12-2015, 11:08
Hi everyone. Here's our article about the Cup 9 results. We included Atho's awesome video in the article too!

http://projectcarsesports.com/home/esl-go4-cup-9-results

If you've made it into the November Finals, ESL will contact you soon to discuss the arrangements, which will be similar to the October Finals with 8 car grids.

Joseph Barron
04-12-2015, 11:28
Details for this Sunday's races:

Go4 Cup Europe #10
7pm CET (6pm GMT) Sunday December 6 2015
Check-in 30 mins before the races start

Car: Formula Gulf
Track: Hockenheim GP (4 laps)

Sign-up as always at: play.eslgaming.com/projectcars (http://www.play.eslgaming.com/projectcars)

GT-Club_Atho_
07-12-2015, 13:37
Revenge from last week. Another great race :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG98MuC_cl4

TonyR
07-12-2015, 17:54
Here are my races of yesterday's cup.

Certainly close racing however more of a lottery at times as khaki called it. You basically only needed to wait in the slipstream until the last lap and then you'd have two straights time to overtake your opponent and block the road so he can't overtake you back.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dKEyh6O4qY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IibgVrwOPzc

One big problem. In my quarter final my opponent Clony and I had different opinions about our contact so we needed someone from ESL to decide.
Decision happened after some time however neither of us both could see the scientific reasoning behind the decision.
I think ESL needs to take care that there are admins who are actually educated regarding motorsports and motorsports rules. It's important to ensure a fair competition!

TonyR
14-12-2015, 13:54
Yesterday's cup was not that successful for me, however here's my quarter final video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX1QXWSn5P8

Fortunately that was the last cup in December I could participate as the Gulf is really not one of my favourite cars :D

Joseph Barron
14-12-2015, 16:28
Here's the results from Go4 Cup #11! Formula Gulf at Donington.

projectcarsesports.com/home/esl-european-go4-cup-11-results (http://www.projectcarsesports.com/home/esl-european-go4-cup-11-results)

Patrick Kulinski
20-12-2015, 17:08
Seems like the website has an error... the sign-up deadline is far away and nevertheless I'm told that the tournament is over. :hopelessness:

EDIT: Solved, late sign-up worked

mangator
21-12-2015, 09:50
Nice little race between khaki and i, we fought till the end :) , i would have prefered to win obviously ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFldXveUVGk

Kevin Leaune
29-12-2015, 08:43
Nice Race !!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nIS0Qf5esk&feature=youtu.be

gmspromo
29-12-2015, 10:27
Nice Race !!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nIS0Qf5esk&feature=youtu.be

It's a shame I didn't get a shot at you SDL guys, but sadly a member of team RZ lied and ESL granted them the win without any evidence. I think SDL Sonik faced the RZ team member and probably found him to be EXTREMELY slow and easy to beat ... the ESL rules need to be better structured to eliminate cheaters ....

Kevin Leaune
29-12-2015, 10:50
I agree with GMSPROMO! Especially that the meetings are always the same. We have the SDL is found bizarrely together in the eighth finals

gmspromo
29-12-2015, 10:54
I agree with GMSPROMO! Especially that the meetings are always the same. We have the SDL is found bizarrely together in the eighth finals

I'm not sure I would have beaten you in the semi final last Sunday, but I was a lot quicker than RZ PUNISHER. I don't mind losing to a fast driver (like yourself), but I hate losing to cheaters like those in team RZ!

Kevin Leaune
03-01-2016, 18:10
Hello everyone !

We have a concern about the ESL cups!

Every week players of our team (SDL Motorsport) always meet at the same stage of the competition was especially noticed that the bracket can not are not random !

t0daY
03-01-2016, 21:10
Well that was my last event in ESL. The ethos of this cup wasnt racing, it was "who can cut the best way without penalties" - this has, for me, really nothing to do with racing...

The event started 3 hours ago and is still not finished. We were "only" 40 people... Many people had no opponent in the first round.... If we reach a point of a full 64 player cup or even 128 players how long is the cup supposed to last? 6 hours? 8?

Very disappointed..

gmspromo
04-01-2016, 10:39
Hello everyone !

We have a concern about the ESL cups!

Every week players of our team (SDL Motorsport) always meet at the same stage of the competition was especially noticed that the bracket can not are not random !

I have a concern about the ESL cup ... every week you win!!! ;)
I just had to be against SDL Rotax in the second round as well, didn't I ...

Chexx
04-01-2016, 14:24
Hello everyone !

We have a concern about the ESL cups!

Every week players of our team (SDL Motorsport) always meet at the same stage of the competition was especially noticed that the bracket can not are not random !

Hey the first cup of each Month is random. If you have a lot of team mates participating the chance is pretty high that at one point of the tournament they will face each other. After that we will use the seeding.

Patrick Kulinski
04-01-2016, 14:32
Hello everyone !

We have a concern about the ESL cups!

Every week players of our team (SDL Motorsport) always meet at the same stage of the competition was especially noticed that the bracket can not are not random !


Hey the first cup of each Month is random. If you have a lot of team mates participating the chance is pretty high that at one point of the tournament they will face each other. After that we will use the seeding.
Source: Cup #11 Tournament tree
224924


Well that was my last event in ESL. The ethos of this cup wasnt racing, it was "who can cut the best way without penalties" - this has, for me, really nothing to do with racing...

The event started 3 hours ago and is still not finished. We were "only" 40 people... Many people had no opponent in the first round.... If we reach a point of a full 64 player cup or even 128 players how long is the cup supposed to last? 6 hours? 8?

Very disappointed..
If you consider half an hour the standard duration for one round (5min for lobby setup, 15min qualy, 10 min race) then the 40 player tournament is over in approx. three hours. Having 128 players on board would increase the length to four hours then. In the end the footwork has to be done by the participants themselves, i.e. being around constantly in order to not create delays when a new round begins. The only thing where I can see the ESL improve things are
- races with several people in one race in order to limit the number of rounds and also decrease the amount of organisation time and
- more (and more trained, seen and heard complaints about that already) judges in order to process protests faster.

gmspromo
04-01-2016, 16:38
Hey the first cup of each Month is random. If you have a lot of team mates participating the chance is pretty high that at one point of the tournament they will face each other. After that we will use the seeding.

Can you explain how the seeding works to arrange matches Chexx?

Patrick Kulinski
04-01-2016, 23:34
If the first cup each month is random then I guess that the seeding is based on the monthly rankings for the Go4 Cups. Everything else is automatic:
- 2 players: No. 1 vs. No. 2
- 4 players: No. 1 vs. No. 4, No. 2 vs. No. 3 (players are inserted: lowest seed meets highest seed in first round, 2nd lowest meets 2nd highest etc. which also applies to all scenarios with more players as well)
- 8 players: [No. 1 vs. No. 8, No. 5 vs. No. 4 --> first semifinal], [No. 7 vs. No. 2, No. 6 vs. No. 3 --> second semifinal]
- Etc.

Got it? :)

TonyR
05-01-2016, 16:28
Hey guys, my race against Clony aka Tuscan from Sunday:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E3Kk_EfJi8

As you might hear the fun is lacking a little bit in the ESL events because we are still driving 1v1s which are mostly quite boring because you are either much slower or much faster than your opponent.

I hope we will get races with more participants soon, Chexx, any Info on this?

Joseph Barron
05-01-2016, 16:49
Hi guys. I don't want to speak too much for Chexx. However, ESL and SMS are definitely working together to run larger grids in the relatively near future.

This requires a few technical changes on the ESL side, so we can't give you a specific date for bigger grid racing at the moment. However, it is coming and it's something that we're all keen to achieve for you guys. Chexx and I will share official announcements with you as soon as the time is right.

4fast2you
06-01-2016, 23:24
Yes please, give this a proper format and maybe it will become relevant and interesting.

gmspromo
06-01-2016, 23:37
A proper format ... and more consistent rules would be a good start.

Why run a cup for a month - such as Decembers Go4 Formula Gulf races, WITH default set-ups (intended to level the playing field) - and then in the December finals (due to take place next week with myself being a participant in the Xbox One final) change the rules so custom set-ups are allowed, which completely removes the level playing field against players who have nothing better to do with their time than tune the cars to specific tracks!

It's a little bit ridiculous ...

mihalo
07-01-2016, 10:20
Maybe they allow custom setups for finals because fuel level is still random with default setups. I'm still out from those cups until they change car class and/or allow custom setups. I don't understand why it is so big problem to allow custom setups. Everybody has same change to tune their setups and usually with custom setups I shared my setup before cup. Also TonyR did great job with setups and sharing them so it shouldn't be a problem if you can't do tunes by yourself.

gmspromo
07-01-2016, 14:03
Maybe they allow custom setups for finals because fuel level is still random with default setups. I'm still out from those cups until they change car class and/or allow custom setups. I don't understand why it is so big problem to allow custom setups. Everybody has same change to tune their setups and usually with custom setups I shared my setup before cup. Also TonyR did great job with setups and sharing them so it shouldn't be a problem if you can't do tunes by yourself.

In fairness, there is nothing wrong with the current car class (the Forumla Gulf is actually quite a fun little car and has created some quite close racing) but I still don't agree with the custom setup's aspect ... that is unless you would like to share a few Gulf setups for Imola & Silverstone so I can give your teamates Rotax & Sonik a run for their money in next weeks Finals?!

TonyR
07-01-2016, 22:14
Custom Setups in the finals were allowed because default setup should level the field of skilled and unskilled drivers. However in the finals there are only skilled drivers who are able to do their setups so we can use this more realistic setting ;) Same reason for having fuel usage and tire wear enabled in the finals. At least on PC not sure of consoles follow the same rules.

Also, keep in mind that I highly doubt the field is levelled with default setups. If anything it creates bigger gaps as people with certain weaknesses can't make up for them with a setup change. (For example some people absolutely hate oversteer so they can change the car to a more understeery one or the other way around)

gmspromo
07-01-2016, 23:13
Well whatever happens, it will be interesting to see what the outcome is in the Xbox One finals next week. I still think SDL Sonik will win from SDL Rotax - they *probably* have the time and the kit (racing wheel + racing seat = full racing setup!) to be able to compete. I'd be happy competing for 3rd or 4th (although I'm aiming to win, I'm being realistic!), but although I know I'm fast, I work full time and have two young kids so get very little time to practice/tune cars properly. I also play with a controller so actually think I'm doing quite well considering the circumstances to be half-a-second off the top guys race pace!!!

mihalo
08-01-2016, 09:53
I did win 2 monthly finals with xbox one controller so it is possible. Of course racing wheel gives advantage and especially with default setups when you can't fine tune the car for controller. But yea, I'm still waiting to hear more about upcoming cups.

gmspromo
08-01-2016, 11:21
I did win 2 monthly finals with xbox one controller so it is possible. Of course racing wheel gives advantage and especially with default setups when you can't fine tune the car for controller. But yea, I'm still waiting to hear more about upcoming cups.

It probably benefits a lot of people that you aren't taking part at the moment, gives the rest of us a chance then! ;) ... I have to admit, with the current patch 7 tire heating issues, the Formula Gulf is a right skittish little thing, especially in qualifying when you exit the pits on cold tires. Getting sufficient heat into them is very, very hard. The skittishness probably benefits the wheel users who can be more gentle or accurate with the steering. I need to get myself one!

crowtrobot
08-01-2016, 19:40
I was just thinking today about the structure with larger grids and brainstorming: it would be really cool to see a Mixed Class grid, with the rankings in the cup determining the car type for the grid. i.e. you have #1-4 in LMP1 cars, #4-10 in LMP2, then put everyone else into GT3/GT4. Points awarded for position and position within class. Position within class would have to be weighted such that people could advance and the 3rd and 4th slot within LMP1 would be within reach for the winners in LMP2, and LMP2 reachable for GT3. I think the mixed class racing would lend itself to a little more variation in the rankings in general, if the races went on long enough for lapping to occur.

It would require good faith on the participants to pick their assigned car, and some external development to track/assign points, but it would add some interesting king of the hill/meta-game to the Cup, IMHO. Thoughts?

gmspromo
08-01-2016, 22:20
I was just thinking today about the structure with larger grids and brainstorming: it would be really cool to see a Mixed Class grid, with the rankings in the cup determining the car type for the grid. i.e. you have #1-4 in LMP1 cars, #4-10 in LMP2, then put everyone else into GT3/GT4. Points awarded for position and position within class. Position within class would have to be weighted such that people could advance and the 3rd and 4th slot within LMP1 would be within reach for the winners in LMP2, and LMP2 reachable for GT3. I think the mixed class racing would lend itself to a little more variation in the rankings in general, if the races went on long enough for lapping to occur.

It would require good faith on the participants to pick their assigned car, and some external development to track/assign points, but it would add some interesting king of the hill/meta-game to the Cup, IMHO. Thoughts?

Thoughts? Logistical nightmare. How many laps are you talking for the races? What happens when a leader in an LMP1 car gets taken out by a lesser skilled driver in a much slower GT3/GT4 car? Nightmare.

GT-Club_Atho_
13-01-2016, 17:16
Hi ! Can you explain why we run the all month with defaut setup but we have to run with setup allowed on the final ? That does not make any sense...

Joseph Barron
13-01-2016, 18:08
ESL felt that because the very best players are in each final, they should be allowed to use their knowledge to setup the car. However, this is something we could potentially discuss with them again.

gmspromo
13-01-2016, 22:17
ESL felt that because the very best players are in each final, they should be allowed to use their knowledge to setup the car. However, this is something we could potentially discuss with them again.

I queried the same thing that GT-Club Athos mentioned above with ESL themselves ... chexx replied with the same comment you gave Joseph.
I have to say, I think it's ridiculous. The final should have the same binding rules as the events that have led up to the finals. Take today for instance; The December finals were meant to take place today (I say "meant to" as the Xbox 2nd race has been postponed due to xbox live issues) and I have been at home with my ill 3 year old son who has been watching YouTube on the Xbox to keep him amused while he lay on the sofa. Everytime I looked, ALL DAY LONG, the team members from SDL, SLUX and RZ have been playing PCars racings on the tracks set for tonights final races, tuning the cars no doubt. They are "professional eSports racers". Normal people don't have time for that. I don't have time for that ... that's the whole lure of "default setups" for me and just turning up and showing your speed on the same level as everyone else.

I got into Decembers final because I showed I could compete when all things are level (not withstanding they all use wheels and I use a controller!!). I'm currently sat in 4th place in Januarys ESL Go4Cup on points surrounded by professional team players, but what does that matter when January's final comes along and those same "professional" players are free to spend hours tuning their cars again; hours that most normal people can't because life happens/gets in the way? I might as well not bother taking part!

You want to attract more eDrivers to PCars as an eSport, but inconsistent rules and inconsistencies to the way they are applied will only turn people away. People like me, who can compete at a high level, if given the chance!

Come on, please make the finals fair and make them adhere to the same rules as the rounds leading up to them!!! (I know I witter on, but this has really bugged me today, not withstanding the bug that caused me not to be able to race in the first race!!)

CoTiNhO
13-01-2016, 22:29
Decisions like that unblocking the setups only for the final rest prestige this kind of championships.... No words!!!

gmspromo
13-01-2016, 22:46
Following on from my post above, perhaps there should be a tournament for individuals that are part of a team (such as SDL, SLUX, RZ, etc.), and one for those that have no team affiliation ... or a custom setup tournament and a default setup tournament ... or SOMETHING. Something needs to be done to separate those that have all the time in the world to play it, to those that don't, but want to try their luck and know they could be as good as those guys if they had the time. Having professional team players in these tournaments turns people away from taking part. Period. I'm just a sucker for punishment ...

You want to know how to increase the number of players taking part each week? Separation is needed ... otherwise the same people will keep winning and turning people away.

Joseph Barron
14-01-2016, 08:16
Thanks for your honesty guys. I'll have another conversation about rules with ESL in the run up to the larger grids being introduced soon.

Yorkie065
14-01-2016, 09:21
Something that concerned me last night which I was told by a couple of members in the PC final, is that track limit abuse is allowed in the finals, and they had word from ESL that it was ok because it was too hard to police for the finals. As far as I am aware, in all the competitions that have been hosted in PCars so far, the white lines of the track have defined the limits of the circuit, and going all 4 wheels over those was against the rules. Now I'm not sure if that applies to the weekly Go4Cup events too, but to go into the final where the games limit is the defining line of track cutting or extending, leaves it very much open to interpretation and up in the air, and also possibly inconsistent with the rest of the rules across the Go4Cups (?) and across all the other competitions hosted in the games. The is was evident when watching drivers last night in the final with some basically cutting to the extent that the game allowed, and others, who don't know where the games limit is, not cutting anywhere near as much and keeping a lot closer or within the white lines still. The advantage and disadvantage was big, a good 1-2 seconds a lap in difference and it actually made the races pretty boring to watch. It doesn't really seem fair when their is no clear defining line, or the one that is there is ignored. And the only way to test where the limits are, is by spending the time pushing the boundaries of the track extending and cutting to find where they are. It also goes against the world of motorsport (or at least the majority) where the general consensus is that cut tracking and extending is frowned upon. Plus also being at the top, the fastest drivers in the community, people will look to them as an example of how to drive and race.

I'd like to make a suggestion to have ESL admins in the session, as well as the drivers and anyone spectating for recording, to be there to monitor both this and any other general race incidents. I know that there is an appeal system to post any incidents after the race, but being able to say there and then live to a player to give back a position due to ramming would go a long way in improving the racing rather than having a result taken away from someone later down the line. I think having all the admins present for the race, and the players in a TS server would be the best way to go about this, and using a dedicated server to race on is a lot more reliable than pier to pier.

I don't expect this for the weekly rounds, but for the final where there is a lot more riding on the event in terms of prize money and exposure, having a very solid system is key to making racing games in eSports work. Hopefully it's something that can be taken into consideration for the future?

Cheers
Yorkie

TonyR
14-01-2016, 11:42
Another thing to consider for the Finals (but also applies to the weekly Cups):

Only 4 people out of 8 bothered to join the final. Of course there are simple reasons for this like unpredictable circumstances, work, etc.

However I think in general it is the lack of motivation. Why is there no motivation?
Big part of that could be the prize pool. Not even the overall size of it but the allocation.
Everybody know their strengths and their lap times so it doesn't make sense to participate when you are 2 sec slower than the first 2 guys as they will take P1 and P2 anyway.

And no, making mistakes is not possible for them. Well, it would be if the car and track combination would be somewhat difficult but driving with a 200 HP car on a parking lot circuit is far from that.

So what to do about it? In my opinion it would be best to allocate prize money to more people. Why not give it to the first 5 out of 8 participants? That would be motivation enough to participate even for slower drivers (I mean they are the 8 best of Europe so they aren't slow per se anyway).
Another thing or additionally to the previous would be to make the competition more difficult so people could think "Oh mistakes are bound to happen, let's participate maybe the fast guys make one". You would need to take cars which are hard to drive for that, like the Stock Car or anything else.

That's just my take. I see it obviously from my perspective but also from a viewers perspective as I'm streaming the whole thing and therefore get direct feedback from the viewers who start yawning when they see 4 cars and each one drives on their own.

t0daY
14-01-2016, 11:45
It was something I mentioned earlier Yorkie. At the moment it is not about racing, it is more likely about who can cut the track the best way without detected by the game. Has nothing to do with racing and that is also why I stopped participating in the cups. Also the default setup was a stupid decision. The default setup is bugged at the moment. It is possible that you wont get the same amount of fuel in the race. Really unfunny according to the 4-6 laps races.

ESL is going with pcars in my opinion in the wrong direction. Hopefully we see some changes in the near future.

MG0902
14-01-2016, 12:07
Sorry for asking a question who is already asked before, but is there a league where all assist are off? So no ABS, no TC ect ect?
I've made a account on ESL a couple of months ago, but I noticed that there were only leagues with assist, so I couldn't be bothered to participate. Is this still going on in 2016? If so, please make a elite league guys...

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 13:11
I like and have to agree with (some of) TonyR's post above. Although all 8 people took part in the Xbox final, I had to leave the first race due to discovering a crippling damage bug which cost me any chance in the race (see here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43997-Damage-Issue&p=1211516#post1211516) but I didn't ask for the race to be restarted or kick up because it wasn't worth it. SDL dominate the Xbox Go4Cups, almost like they are dominating the Driver network championship ... with two of their fastest members in the finals, I stood almost no chance of coming 1st or 2nd and winning any prize money. Maybe it should be split fairer among the top five or at the very least, the top 3 finishers?

I'm not sure I agree with making it more difficult though, that is going to create a bigger divide between those that practise ALL THE TIME ... to those of us who don't have the time. Default setups (although not perfect with the fuel load issues, which surely must be fixable?!?!) help level the playing field, and is one of the only reasons I've been able to compete at such a high level. If tuning comes back into it, I just don't have the time to learn to be an engineer as well as a driver ... now, if those top guys wanted to share their setups to give the rest of us a shot at beating them in the cups/finals, that is a different story ...

EDIT: In addition to the above, I just wanted to add that there is also the fact that I know members of the same teams, work on fine-tuning set-ups together. So aside from the fact default setups were turned off for the final when they should not have been in my opinion (because they weren't for all the preceding cups), enabling custom setups is going to affect individuals like me going up against team members who work together to create custom setups ...

GT-Club_Atho_
14-01-2016, 13:23
ESL felt that because the very best players are in each final, they should be allowed to use their knowledge to setup the car. However, this is something we could potentially discuss with them again.

The problem is that we only know the tracks 3 days before the final, it's too short to work on 2 setups and some of them have other competition ( PSPlus league, SMS-R ) and a life outside.

More with the Formula Gulf, we can have really close battle with defaut setups.

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 13:30
More with the Formula Gulf, we can have really close battle with defaut setups.

Exactly ... and while I'm a nobody, this statement comes from someone who is well respected within the PCars community and who should be listened to (again, in my opinion!)

d-river
14-01-2016, 13:54
ESL is going wrong direction with Project Cars if you are going to force default setups etc. Why there is even setups in game if you are not going to use them? Also somebody is moaning about not having time for doing setups, thats why we have eSport teams here. Also in real life if you don't have time to practise you can't be good. That works in everything. You think that you can be top driver in real life without practise? No, it doesnt work that way.

If you want level playing field for everybody then you should force everybody to use same wheel/controller, same settings, same internet connection etc. It doesn't make sense. Please allow custom setups and make bigger grids and allow Project Cars game to its full potential. That way you can grow eSports scene around Project Cars and not forcing people to play with settings they don't like or can't play.

CoTiNhO
14-01-2016, 13:57
The problem is that we only know the tracks 3 days before the final, it's too short to work on 2 setups and some of them have other competition ( PSPlus league, SMS-R ) and a life outside.

More with the Formula Gulf, we can have really close battle with defaut setups.

I agree and i can add... The track may be secret until start the cup. Same chance to train. My cup "CES" works without setups, all aids off (including AB), random car and track and nobody knows until start the free practice. That make absolutely awesome races.

CoTiNhO
14-01-2016, 13:59
Someone imagine the drivers of F1 training Melbourne (First Race) from now??? jajaja Thats a joke! Train more hours than the event length... Friend... you have a problem, and that problem is... you aren't enough good!

d-river
14-01-2016, 14:02
They use simulators etc. I think that everybody who is moaning about custom setups are not fast enought, thats why they moan. jajajaajaj, jejeejjejee?

Edit: You think F1 drivers use default setups and doesn't know their next race? JejejejeejJajajajajaaj

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 14:09
Also somebody is moaning about not having time for doing setups, thats why we have eSport teams here. Also in real life if you don't have time to practise you can't be good. That works in everything. You think that you can be top driver in real life without practise? No, it doesnt work that way.

Who are you referring to as "moaning", me or Athos? Athos as you should know, is a top level driver, possibly even the best depending on the outcome of this coming weekend ... yeah I'm not but could be if I had the time to practice and learn to be a setup engineer .. and yes I am moaning as I don't have the time they do to work on custom setups. Should only eSports teams be allowed to take part, is that what you are saying? Should I give up the day job and do nothing but play PCars all day long like some of them do? I'm sure it's all well and good if you can make a living out of playing eSports, but I can't. I have a life, as do a lot of other people ...

CoTiNhO
14-01-2016, 14:10
They use simulators etc. I think that everybody who is moaning about custom setups are not fast enought, thats why they moan. jajajaajaj, jejeejjejee?

Edit: You think F1 drivers use default setups and doesn't know their next race? JejejejeejJajajajajaaj

Maybe someone need this http://engr.iupui.edu/departments/ent/about/programs/mste.php, not a wheel lol!

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 14:13
Edit: You think F1 drivers use default setups and doesn't know their next race? JejejejeejJajajajajaaj

F1 drivers don't setup their own cars!!!!!!! The teams base the setup on computer generated "ideal" track setups ... and they have engineers to fine tune the setups at races. I can't say I've ever seen Lewis Hamilton with his sleeves rolled up working on his own car, have you?

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 14:20
At the end of the day, you can be the worlds best racing driver but a rubbish engineer, or the worlds best engineer but a rubbish driver ... very rarely can you excel at both, but by all means, prove your skills to us d-river and I'll say no more ...

Yorkie065
14-01-2016, 14:31
Someone imagine the drivers of F1 training Melbourne (First Race) from now??? jajaja Thats a joke! Train more hours than the event length... Friend... you have a problem, and that problem is... you aren't enough good!

Yeah...because F1 drivers become good at a track overnight. You'll be surprised at how much effort and time goes into practice for a race weekend, and I imagine a number of drivers are in the simulator, and have been before Christmas practising for the new year. When you're at the very pinnacle and top end of your sport, you spend way way way more time practising and preparing for one event, than you do in that one event itself. You honestly think an Olympic diver will do 1 dive in practice session ahead of their World Cup event. They'll probably do 1,000's of tries on 1 dive to practice and perfect it.

You can apply that to sim racing too. I'll spend somewhere between 6-8 hours practising for 1 league race in the week that lasts roughly 1 hour. In those 6-8 hours, I'm learning the track (despite already knowing it), learning how the car acts on that track, setup work, and then final adjustments of setup and perfecting lines. Someone who doesn't have the talent but works hard will succeed more than someone who has the talent but doesn't work hard!

CoTiNhO
14-01-2016, 14:46
Yeah...because F1 drivers become good at a track overnight. You'll be surprised at how much effort and time goes into practice for a race weekend, and I imagine a number of drivers are in the simulator, and have been before Christmas practising for the new year. When you're at the very pinnacle and top end of your sport, you spend way way way more time practising and preparing for one event, than you do in that one event itself. You honestly think an Olympic diver will do 1 dive in practice session ahead of their World Cup event. They'll probably do 1,000's of tries on 1 dive to practice and perfect it.

You can apply that to sim racing too. I'll spend somewhere between 6-8 hours practising for 1 league race in the week that lasts roughly 1 hour. In those 6-8 hours, I'm learning the track (despite already knowing it), learning how the car acts on that track, setup work, and then final adjustments of setup and perfecting lines. Someone who doesn't have the talent but works hard will succeed more than someone who has the talent but doesn't work hard!

Their work is drive in real, and learn with simulator. If they practice real 100hours, have non sense. For us our "work" is play simulator. Play 100 hours before a race have non sense too.

CoTiNhO
14-01-2016, 14:49
I think depends what are you looking for. If you really are looking for the best talented driver, without practice you will see probably the best talented. With 6 hours practicing... i think you will see the more patient. Finally both will race fast, but one of them will be naturally faster, the other one not.

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 15:00
It all depends on how you define a "talented" driver. Is the best driver one who can practice for more hours than anyone else giving them an obvious advantage, or one that can extract the most out of a car within strict limits (such as a default setup). Aren't the ones who say they hate the default setup admitting they are better engineers than drivers? (Cue a riot of abuse I'm sure!!)

Puffpirat
14-01-2016, 15:40
You guys do know there is an edit button, so you don't have to double post all the time.

When I go into a league race, I know there are at least 5 guys that are as fast as me, so I will do what I can to be better, be it setup work, be it practice or strategy. This is eSports and goes for everything where you want to excel. If two guys are as fast, the better prepared one will win, as easy as that.

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 16:03
So everyone can "better prepare" by practising driving with a default setup then. That way those moaning about the default setup can stop moaning about it ...

graveltrap
14-01-2016, 16:08
Wasn't the latest round of moaning in this thread triggered by someone complaing that people were allowed to setup cars in the final and that that didn't suite their needs...

t0daY
14-01-2016, 16:10
You guys do know there is an edit button, so you don't have to double post all the time.

When I go into a league race, I know there are at least 5 guys that are as fast as me, so I will do what I can to be better, be it setup work, be it practice or strategy. This is eSports and goes for everything where you want to excel. If two guys are as fast, the better prepared one will win, as easy as that.

Wise words.. still you do not even have a chance for the victory tonight ;)

Puffpirat
14-01-2016, 16:13
So everyone can "better prepare" by practising driving with a default setup then. That way those moaning about the default setup can stop moaning about it ...
No, because the more I drive with a certain setup, there more I know what can be better.

Default setups make the competition worse (at the top), because everyone has a different driving style. I want to be able to change stuff that doesn't suit me. The one thing I definitely adjust on all cars is brake balance and pressure for example.


Wise words.. still you do not even have a chance for the victory tonight ;)

only if my preparation is bad :D

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 16:32
Wasn't the latest round of moaning in this thread triggered by someone complaing that people were allowed to setup cars in the final and that that didn't suite their needs...

You missed the point. All the rounds leading up to the final, and the points gained in those rounds, decided who was to take place in the final. Default setups were enabled in all those rounds ... why then change the rules for the final? That makes no sense at all. It's got nothing to do with suiting anyones "needs", it's just plain inconsistent

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 16:36
No, because the more I drive with a certain setup, there more I know what can be better.

Default setups make the competition worse (at the top), because everyone has a different driving style. I want to be able to change stuff that doesn't suit me. The one thing I definitely adjust on all cars is brake balance and pressure for example.

Isn't that something else that makes a great driver ... driving around issues or limitations of the car? I seem to remember one Michael Schumacher being stuck in 5th gear around the Circuit De Catalunya back in 1994 or 1995. He adapted, he coped ... and he still came 2nd I believe that day ... deal with it, it might make you a better driver.

EDIT: also a note regarding practice ... yes even F1 drivers use simulators, but most of them say it is not the same as actually driving their own race car. They may do lots of simulator work, but they roll up at a race weekend with an "optimal" baseline setup that is generated by a computer simulation. They then have 4 hours only (2 x one and a half hour practice sessions and 1 x 1 hour practice session) to fine tune or adjust the setup before heading into qualifying and then the race. Don't you think spending DAYS practising for 4 or 6 lap mini race on a Sunday night in the ESL cups is somewhat a bit much in comparison? Perhaps ESL should only tell people on a Sunday morning what track is going to be raced that evening ... to stop the practice overkill ...

Puffpirat
14-01-2016, 16:55
And you think he drove with default setup that day ;)

A great driver will be great if the setup is good or not. But seeing there are so different camps, maybe ESL should think about doing both, default and custom setups.

gmspromo
14-01-2016, 16:58
And you think he drove with default setup that day ;)

A great driver will be great if the setup is good or not. You're just looking for excuses because you don't have time to practice but some do. I have wife, kid and job, you hear me complaining? I still want to be able to make my ride as good as possible.

No, but he didn't setup the car or gear ratios to drive around in 5th gear all day either did he ... and the only thing I've been moaning about is the inconsistencies between the Go4 Cup rounds and the final regarding default setup. Whatever rules are implemented, just make sure they are consistent and I won't have an issue! If they set custom setups for the rounds and final together (consistency), I'll deal with it.

Puffpirat
14-01-2016, 17:25
Ok now it's on ESL :)

Tuscan
25-01-2016, 11:33
PC final
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAZtplBq-Cc

Tuscan
28-01-2016, 19:57
Hello,
For those interested, I just put online all the final which I participated on PC, cup 11 at 17 and december final. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjCFyhBRSEapvHx41KxZ8bg/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

t0daY
28-01-2016, 20:47
Hello,
For those interested, I just put online all the final which I participated on PC, cup 11 at 17 and december final. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjCFyhBRSEapvHx41KxZ8bg/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=0

Your rear on the gulf is damn stable. Are you using stability control with this car?

Tuscan
29-01-2016, 16:59
Yes i use stability control

Patrick Kulinski
30-01-2016, 14:51
Yes i use stability control

Okay, this makes it okay for me to reach Ro16 only :) all aids disabled here

Tuscan
11-02-2016, 06:49
A great race yesterday on the 2nd race of the ESL january pc final, with a long long long close racing :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPkRQKo9MXk

Patrick Kulinski
14-02-2016, 09:11
Guys, is it possible that the ESL page as a whole is broken at the moment?

miagi
14-02-2016, 10:09
Guys, is it possible that the ESL page as a whole is broken at the moment?

Yes.

Joseph Barron
14-02-2016, 12:47
The ESL website seems to be working again now.

Patrick Kulinski
14-02-2016, 13:21
The ESL website seems to be working again now.

Nah, not really. F.e., on the main page I'm not able to select a game as the scroll-down menu doesn't appear.

EDIT: esl-one.com seems to be broken, too.

227531

Joseph Barron
14-02-2016, 15:04
It's a little slower than normal for me, but it is still working.

http://play.eslgaming.com/projectcars

Patrick Kulinski
14-02-2016, 17:51
All good again here :)

CoTiNhO
14-02-2016, 18:38
a lot of PSN errors to create the lobby. And during the qualifying, disconnection from the PSN server!!!

Joseph Barron
14-02-2016, 20:47
a lot of PSN errors to create the lobby. And during the qualifying, disconnection from the PSN server!!!

I've informed development team about this weekend's connection issues. They will investigate.

Figuur84
16-02-2016, 02:40
I've informed development team about this weekend's connection issues. They will investigate.

Hi Joseph! We just started ESL but... I have to say I am really dissapointed in ESL at the moment. With all the disconnects (I lost first race because a descision from an admin, he did a 'random select' for a winner due to not being possible for making a lobby without disconnects) they should re-run last 2 cups (it happened last week too). If I take a look at www.projectcarsesports.com and see the ESL news, I really dont feel good by the story, it is not even mentioned there where big connection issues. Whether it's the game, or psn, I don't know, but it is clear the problems are there atm. I do know for sure that it is not a personal (local) connection issue.... We are no real network(ICT)-specialists but racers who use software for our hobby, and we use good connections and equipment. It has to be smooth and fair. So please, I hope you understand my critics (at ESL). Some of our drivers did practice a lot for ESL, and these issues are frustrating on race-day. We will for sure be part of the new sms-r season, but I am really dissapointed in ESL atm, they (in my eyes) did not show leadership, good organisation and responsability in the interest of all the participants . I am really glad to see SMS looking into the problems, hope you guys find and fix it as soon as possible!

Cheers!

Joseph Barron
16-02-2016, 10:26
Thanks for posting Figuur. My apologies for the recent connectivity issues. We are as frustrated by the these as everyone else is and the guys are working hard to find a solution.

We'll keep everyone updated about our progress with the connectivity on PS4, and I'll make sure ESL is aware of your other concerns.

GT-Club_Atho_
21-02-2016, 20:18
Is it possible to cancel the ps4 round ? Always disconnection for lot of us we are bored...

EDIT : Too much for me, i've wait 2h30 and i've not finished 1 match...

Th3Pr0ph3cy
22-02-2016, 07:06
Yesterday night a really awesome race between me and SDL Yoohan at the ESL GO4ProjectCars Cup #21

The battle for the 3rd place. That's what racing has to be:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeHkmn19C-A

By the way this Video documented a bug. An observant viewer will notice that the Starting Grid is mixed up. In the Qualifying I achieved the fastest Time and the Pole has to be mine. We decided to shorten up the qualifying and jumped to the end of the Session. If you look at the Position Numbers while starting you can see that it shows 2. for SDL Yoohan although he is in front - it changed to 1. after the first Corner...

Joseph Barron
22-02-2016, 09:41
Is it possible to cancel the ps4 round ? Always disconnection for lot of us we are bored...

EDIT : Too much for me, i've wait 2h30 and i've not finished 1 match...

Our team is still working on the PS4 connection issues. We suspect that recent minor PSN problems are impacting some games more than others, including pCARS. We know of at least 8 other games which are in a similar situation.

It would be helpful if you could visit this thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45096-PS4-SMS-investigation-into-connection-issues) and describe the problems you experienced in the Cup this weekend.

CoTiNhO
22-02-2016, 10:08
ESL is a disorganization, too much time to analyse the claims, permit the users do zig zag like driveclub or needforspeed races and at 23:00 lock the brackets. People like me we can't wait all the Sunday's for disorganization reasons for play the final or 3th/4th place. It's incredible how users championships are better organised than an official championship

Joseph Barron
22-02-2016, 10:29
ESL is a disorganization, too much time to analyse the claims, permit the users do zig zag like driveclub or needforspeed races and at 23:00 lock the brackets. People like me we can't wait all the Sunday's for disorganization reasons for play the final or 3th/4th place. It's incredible how users championships are better organised than an official championship

Hi CoTiNhO. Please be patient with ESL during the PSN connection troubles. They are having to battle these issues just as we at SMS are.

There was a large increase in the number of disputed results on PS4 due to the PSN issues, which has also made the PS4 Cup take longer than usual to complete. Under normal circumstances the 23:00 bracket lock & the number of disputes are not a problem.

Hopefully PSN will settle down and we can get back to normal ASAP.

Patrick Kulinski
22-02-2016, 19:40
I feel like Cotinho didn't mean the PS4 issues people are experiencing but much rather problems with umpiring, i.e. when someone files a complaint against a race result. That's what I think of reading his post.

gmspromo
23-02-2016, 08:03
I have to admit to getting a little fed up with ESL at the moment ... both from a non-consistent ruling point of view and user point of view.

I play on the xbox one version of the game and have been entering the ESL since October last year, never missing a race until this past weekend just gone (man flu). I've had a few problems and a few protests along the way and not once have I ever got to speak with someone officially from ESL ... everyone you deal with is a volunteer that helps run the events and it shows because some of the decisions made regarding protested results have been amateur at best.

Regarding other users, I won my place in the January Finals fair and square, yet there appeared to be an incident in the first race in Barcelona where I was personally accused by a host of team members taking part in the Final for causing an accident affecting the race for one of the team members. I never hit, touched or knocked anyone and in fact I saw two team members run into each other causing the incident, but I was subject to a torrent of verbal abuse online (they may have all been speaking French, but it's not hard to recognise an angry tone or pick out a few choice words!) certain team members also continued the abuse through the ESL chat app, with the ESL admin doing nothing to stop it.

All along I maintained my innocence and asked them to prove the incident with video, which funnily enough, never appeared (because it would have vindicated me!!)

Because I had been the subject of abuse in the first race, I was then subject to MORE abuse when 3 or 4 people disconnected from the second race. I was blamed for this happening, even though the other four racers were able to carry on racing fine.

The few points I am trying to make here are this. Firstly European Finals are fine and I have no problem racing people from other countries, but ESL need admins who can speak several languages to deal with issues from people who don't always speak English or recognise abuse when it happens!. Secondly, the amount of abuse I was subject to (completely unfairly, although it should never be acceptable) was not on and for the ESL to do nothing was grossly wrong. Personally I would have banned the members of the team giving the abuse because they all kept saying they would appeal the result with video evidence, but it never appeared because I know it showed two members of the same team colliding; they just tried to blame it on me because I came second in the first race.

Abuse should never be tolerated.

SpeedFreakDTM
23-02-2016, 09:50
Abuse should never be tolerated.

It isn't tolerated in any shape or form. Just file a complaint and add a comment saying abuse, or harassment. Then the persons complained against get communication banned for 2 weeks.

This has happened to a friend of mine recently. Some troublesome person joined the lobby my friend was host of, and he kicked them. They messaged saying he was too scared to race them, and that they would run rings around him. My friend quit the lobby and made a new one, invited the guy in, and messaged him "if you dont run rings around me you will be kicked". That is the only slightly negative message he had sent recently, and now has a communication ban for 2 weeks.

So if your getting torrents of abuse verbally from people, even if its in another language just file a complaint.

Xbox One Online is ridiculously strict about "abuse" or "harassment" compared to Xbox 360 Online.

I think as one generation of gamer grows older, and newer younger and overly sensitive generation of gamers emerges. They can give it out but they cant take it back and they file complaints. Usually after starting the argument themselves.

gmspromo
23-02-2016, 11:02
I'm not overly bothered about random xbox abuse, as it's rare to come across it and if/when I do, you just kick the person being an idiot.
No, what concerned me was the fact the January final was the first final to be run differently were by all 8 finalists had to be in an "ESL team chat", on the ESL website, 15 mins before the races began (that didn't happen, and I felt like the admin, telling the ACTUAL admin at ESL what he was supposed to be doing rule wise - very poor). Apart from the ranting and abuse on the xbox after the first race, the abuse carried over to the ESL chat were the admin sat there and did NOTHING. Was I really expected to raise a complaint with ESL about the abuse, when the admin could quite easily see it happening?? That's just ridiculous ...

FoaMeA
23-02-2016, 11:35
Hey guys,

Thank you for all your feedback!

We strive to create the perfect environment for every player, but you have to understand that it takes time and resources to do so. Most of the situations that happen in the races are often exceptions which require a different approach from the admin side, which might not be covered by the rule-book. We are currently working on our rule-book and we are happy to hear your thoughts, as we also have a topic on the ESL Forum about it: http://forum.eslgaming.com/discussion/8003/ruleset-discussion#latest

It is true that we rely a lot on our volunteers but that's only because there are so many players interested in giving a hand for their own community, to help us build the environment that each one of you want. It can happen that sometimes they take the wrong decision, and when that happens, don't hesitate to contact us directly, through a support ticket.

Regarding the situation that gmspromo presented here, unfortunately, when a protest was opened to discuss all these issues, there were 7 other players that told us the same story, which was verified, but also entirely different than what gmspromo said above. If you do not bring your own argument when it matters the most, then how can we help you?

It is also true that we have tried a different type of organization in the last monthly finals since we were lacking direct contact with the players during the cup. Of course, it happened that the Xbox One players were not online on ESL, but only in-game, and gmspromo was the only one online in the ESL Chat. But once we've spotted the issue, we've managed to get things going into the right direction and the race was hosted by Gmspromo. From what gmspromo is saying, he had expected us to crown him the champion seeing only himself in the ESL Chat. Does anyone else feel that this was the right move to do?

As said above, we would love to solve all these issues, so feel free to come to us whenever you have one so we can solve it.

Best Regards,
FoaMeA, ESL ProjectCARS Community Manager

gmspromo
23-02-2016, 11:45
Um FoaMeA, I never expected to be crowned anything ... all I expected was fair racing .. and that is not what happened. If one person follows the rules and no one else does, how exactly was I in the wrong? Oh and nothing was verified by ESL because if you are saying I caused the collision for which I got all the abuse (which I didn't), why was I allowed to keep my second place and points? Your argument makes no sense. I also raised the issue in the "team chat" because that is where I was told to raise it, with the admin assigned to the final. Be consistent with your rules and procedures!!

I also have proof of the abuse that took place ... or are you trying to say that didn't happen as well? What a joke.

If ESL themselves don't know what they are talking about, count me out in the future ... I'll stick to the SMS run Drivers Championship where they at least consistently apply the rules and know what they are talking about when it comes to racing ...

Figuur84
23-02-2016, 15:11
Hi FoaMea,

First of all, good to see you here, I appreciate it. As the teammanager of Team RSP I did follow the last 3 Sunday cups closely where some of our drivers participated, and I 'tried' to participate in one of them as well (Donington).

When there are a lot of disconnects (you can't tell me you did not notice, a lot of people encountered these!), I think it is not fair to carry on with the competition with those problems. I got a 'loss' because of a random decision (show must go on right?). Now I am absolutely not saying I would have won the bracket, but I never got a chance at all (while practicing for it the week before), and I'm not the only one. There should be someone at ESL to make the bald decision to stop the competition and re-run it later, when these big issues are there. Now it is to late for that, you should not bother anymore for last races, but for the future you guys should really think about that. I think it is not fair this way. Some try to win the race now by making protest-tickets of disconnects,with some drivers pointing fingers to others and one of our drivers had one opponent who said: 'he disconnected 3 times so I win', and he did win due to a decision of an admin (this was no personal network issue!). And because of all those protest-tickets, you guys are very busy and therefore it takes even longer to get a reaction or a decision from an admin. And so it is all about waiting and waiting in the bracket, complaints, and everything else you hear atm.

I'm not pointing fingers at someone about the disconnects, I know they are working on that, and that is really good. I do say ESL should 'be' or 'look' more neutral and take the good (but sometimes tough) descisions when things go wrong, sometimes it's just the best to do (especially if there are prices involved, ESL shoud be proffessional).

Because of the huge waiting times with protest tickets, there also exists a feeling of discouragement to make them (at least from my side).

And what's this? 'It is true that we rely a lot on our volunteers but that's only because there are so many players interested in GIVING A HAND FOR THEIR OWN COMMUNITY, to help us build the environment that each one of you want. It can happen that sometimes they take the wrong decision'

Does this mean they can be prejudiced? Like me being an admin and be prejudiced for RSP drivers?

Can you also tell me how the bracket is made up before each round?

Thanks anyway for posting here.

Good luck!

FoaMeA
23-02-2016, 17:22
Hey guys,


Um FoaMeA, I never expected to be crowned anything ... all I expected was fair racing .. and that is not what happened. If one person follows the rules and no one else does, how exactly was I in the wrong? Oh and nothing was verified by ESL because if you are saying I caused the collision for which I got all the abuse (which I didn't), why was I allowed to keep my second place and points? Your argument makes no sense. I also raised the issue in the "team chat" because that is where I was told to raise it, with the admin assigned to the final. Be consistent with your rules and procedures!!

I also have proof of the abuse that took place ... or are you trying to say that didn't happen as well? What a joke.

If ESL themselves don't know what they are talking about, count me out in the future ... I'll stick to the SMS run Drivers Championship where they at least consistently apply the rules and know what they are talking about when it comes to racing ...

The team chat is not the place where to complain about issues that appear during races, but only through a support ticket. The team chat was like a beta function only for that cup so we can have a better contact with the players, as said above.

I remember what happened then, even though several weeks past. You were the host of the second race and after you had a collision you left the race after that and caused the disconnection of the rest of the players from the race. The race was re-done by those that were still part of it. You kept your 2nd place from the 1st race because that one was played according to the rules.

Threats won't get you anywhere. We love to have you around as long as you do not claim facts that are proven wrong by other 7 players, not by us. We are only trying to be the judges, that's all.



Hi FoaMea,

First of all, good to see you here, I appreciate it. As the teammanager of Team RSP I did follow the last 3 Sunday cups closely where some of our drivers participated, and I 'tried' to participate in one of them as well (Donington).

When there are a lot of disconnects (you can't tell me you did not notice, a lot of people encountered these!), I think it is not fair to carry on with the competition with those problems. I got a 'loss' because of a random decision (show must go on right?). Now I am absolutely not saying I would have won the bracket, but I never got a chance at all (while practicing for it the week before), and I'm not the only one. There should be someone at ESL to make the bald decision to stop the competition and re-run it later, when these big issues are there. Now it is to late for that, you should not bother anymore for last races, but for the future you guys should really think about that. I think it is not fair this way. Some try to win the race now by making protest-tickets of disconnects,with some drivers pointing fingers to others and one of our drivers had one opponent who said: 'he disconnected 3 times so I win', and he did win due to a decision of an admin (this was no personal network issue!). And because of all those protest-tickets, you guys are very busy and therefore it takes even longer to get a reaction or a decision from an admin. And so it is all about waiting and waiting in the bracket, complaints, and everything else you hear atm.

I'm not pointing fingers at someone about the disconnects, I know they are working on that, and that is really good. I do say ESL should 'be' or 'look' more neutral and take the good (but sometimes tough) descisions when things go wrong, sometimes it's just the best to do (especially if there are prices involved, ESL shoud be proffessional).

Because of the huge waiting times with protest tickets, there also exists a feeling of discouragement to make them (at least from my side).

And what's this? 'It is true that we rely a lot on our volunteers but that's only because there are so many players interested in GIVING A HAND FOR THEIR OWN COMMUNITY, to help us build the environment that each one of you want. It can happen that sometimes they take the wrong decision'

Does this mean they can be prejudiced? Like me being an admin and be prejudiced for RSP drivers?

Can you also tell me how the bracket is made up before each round?

Thanks anyway for posting here.

Good luck!

Thank you for sharing this feedback with us! Feel free to keep it going whenever you have any!

I'm afraid that I don't know what you mean by "huge waiting times with protest tickets", as during cups they are being handled in maximum 20 minutes, since the cup can't advance without having the match solved. Would be good if you can provide some examples in private so I can have a better understanding of the situation.

Regarding admins, players have always called admins biased mainly because they do not always agree with the decisions that are based on the rule-book, and thus they think that admins are taking sides with their opponents. We have tried to avoid admin involvement as much as possible in other games by having game integrations, but it is impossible to have it for all games, unfortunately. To answer your question, it may happen that you can be accused that you're taking sides when it comes to a decision regarding some of your team mates.

As for the bracket, I'm not sure what you want to know. Can you please provide more insight?

Best Regards,
FoaMeA, ESL ProjectCARS Community Manager

gmspromo
23-02-2016, 17:45
Do you need me to provide you with the facts FoaMea? Even the French team members can provide you with video proof of what happened because it's quite apparent you can't remember a thing.
So do you call "no contact" or "little to no contact" in that team chat "better contact"? I don't.

Yes I was the host of both races, and after the abuse of the first race I was deliberatly taken out by a team member in the second race at watkins glen. This caused my formula gulf to roll and severe damage to it, with my only option to "retire to the pits". After 3 or 4 minutes, I was disconnected from the session and a couple of others were as well .... BUT ... three or four players were NOT disconnected and able to finish the same race. They did NOT restart a new race (view your own ESL chat logs where this is made quite clear, you have all the proof you need to see for yourself I'm telling the truth or if you don't you have them, I do!!!), therefore the random disconnect of both myself and a couple of other players was not my fault, and more in keeping with the theme of xbox connection problems/timeouts, because the race carried on regardless.

For an ESL project manager, as long as you are involved with things, I am not, I'm out. It wasn't said as a threat before and it's not now, I've had it with your seeming lack of knowledge and apparent misplaced blame culture ...