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Swinnyjr
02-10-2015, 16:17
Can anyone tell me why it's in the historic tc2 class? It's a road car with skinny little road tyres and a full interior and, going by the amount of body roll, standard suspension, brakes and the like. It's got no business being on track with the escort, merc and to a lesser extent, the BMW 2002.

I'd love to be able to race the mustang with these cars in this class, it belongs there. But a race prepped track version. Not the one we have

Cheesenium
02-10-2015, 16:43
The mustang 66 is already race prepped with better tires and better suspension. You can retune it back to original stock setting but it will make it even harder to handle it around corners. Similar to 2002 and Escort to a certain extend, touring cars in the 60s were pretty much road cars with little race trim.

Personally, I think the reason it has road liveries but put in Historic B is, it was originally supposed to be a road car but later on in physics development, SMS found out it fits Historic B well so it was moved there since then. The liveries are probably done way before the physics started so that's kinda what you have now in the game.

Still, would appreciate if SMS could patch in racing livery for this car. Just add a few number boxes and maybe 1-2 sponsors and the car would looked right at home in Historic B. however, the new liveries would still need to be submitted to Ford for approvals before it could be released so it might take sometime before its patched in. If SMS had already done the new liveries.

Swinnyjr
02-10-2015, 17:17
Is it really? Bloody hell it does not feel like it!
It gets out done by the merc in both cornering and top speed.

Well if it does indeed have racing springs and brake pads then it needs the same treatment as the BMW; a healthy injection of horsepower plonked into it.

Oh and one more thing to add to you're livery idea: crosses over the headlights.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
02-10-2015, 18:36
The car is definitely on racing rubber, the grip is way beyond the road tyres of the day. The car can pull around 1 G with the current tyres, and even in the mid 70s with then new radial tyres that significantly improved upon the radials before them had trouble reaching 0.7 G steady figures, barely peaking into 0.8G. You'd be looking at nearly 30% less cornering grip if the car was really on vintage road tyres. =)

But it still is a road car at heart even if it is running on racing rubber (no car in-game has vintage road rubber from that far back). The suspension isn't exactly race prepped by default, it's using optional suspension kits available at the time with the default setup. That's one cause of the leaning, the road suspensions of the day, even the optional kits, weren't designed for racing rubber, and the higher grip leads to higher amount of body movement. But you can stiffen it up further for more racing level performance. You can also soften it down to what the car had in pure stock condition. The last time I checked the brakes weren't racing spec either, overheating very quickly and underpowered, but they may have updated them since.

So no, the car is not a racing version, it is very much the street version but on vintage racing tyres. Putting it in the exact same class as the others is dubious from a balancing perspective (not that the racing cars of the day were in any way well balanced in any case), but I expect it's there to enable people who want to drive all four together to be able to do so without using the "Any" class selection option.

Pink_650S
02-10-2015, 19:22
If any of these cars needs love, its the 2002, its a lot slower than the Mustang. And Mustang is a lot slower than the other 2.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
02-10-2015, 19:34
Considering they're road cars, not racing cars (yes, even if they're in the class in-game), I'd be hesitant to mess with them too much, to speed them up at any rate. Upgraded brakes I can see, yeah, that's been pretty much standard for all road cars so far, but extra power?

What I wouldn't give for an adjustable ballast system, with the possibility to take away weight from cars as well...

madmax2069
02-10-2015, 22:26
The mustang is slower then the 300Sel, both in top end and acceleration, but the mustang seems to be able to do better in the corners then the Merc. The mustang tops out at around 150MPH, while the Merc tops out at around 160MPH (both with stock gear ratios), the brakes are the only thing that kills the mustang due to the massive brake fade after a few laps. The mustang though seems to match the escort in top end and pretty close in acceleration (the mustang might have a bit more acceleration at certain speeds then the escort but are really close to each other), the escore has better brakes and can take a corner better then the mustang. The Mustang can keep pace with the other 3 (depending on the track) if the brake fade doesn't kill you first.

The 2002 has worse acceleration and top end then the other 3 (tops out at around 140mph with adjusted final drive), but has better brakes and does pretty good in a corner, on a short or technical track it can keep pace with all 3.

Swinnyjr
02-10-2015, 23:56
If any of these cars needs love, its the 2002, its a lot slower than the Mustang. And Mustang is a lot slower than the other 2.

You say that. I did a race tonight round the ring in these cars and my mate in the 2002 was leading for a decent chunk off it.
The beemer now has the same straight line speed as the escort and better acceleration than anything else in class now.
Its fixed IMO

Cheesenium
03-10-2015, 06:44
The mustang is slower then the 300Sel, both in top end and acceleration, but the mustang seems to be able to do better in the corners then the Merc. The mustang tops out at around 150MPH, while the Merc tops out at around 160MPH (both with stock gear ratios), the brakes are the only thing that kills the mustang due to the massive brake fade after a few laps. The mustang though seems to match the escort in top end and pretty close in acceleration (the mustang might have a bit more acceleration at certain speeds then the escort but are really close to each other), the escore has better brakes and can take a corner better then the mustang. The Mustang can keep pace with the other 3 (depending on the track) if the brake fade doesn't kill you first.

The 2002 has worse acceleration and top end then the other 3 (tops out at around 140mph with adjusted final drive), but has better brakes and does pretty good in a corner, on a short or technical track it can keep pace with all 3.

I think SMS did well in terms of representing 60s touring cars as car balancing are pretty on the extreme side of things where some cars can be great at straights but awful at corners and vice versa. These cars are not meant to be balanced as well as modern GTs as BoP isnt really well understood as it is now.

I know some cars like the Mustang can absolutely destroy other cars in tracks with many straights but if you choose a curvy track, the Mustang is really really slow. At least for me, its what it made these cars interesting in this game. Not just GT3s with different appearance.

As i always said, classic content in this game has tremendous amount of potential where I hope SMS will expand them further. Whether its a 70s F1, a 60s touring car or a 80s GT, it is always great fun to drive these vintage vehicles.

madmax2069
03-10-2015, 07:04
I think SMS did well in terms of representing 60s touring cars as car balancing are pretty on the extreme side of things where some cars can be great at straights but awful at corners and vice versa. These cars are not meant to be balanced as well as modern GTs as BoP isnt really well understood as it is now.

I know some cars like the Mustang can absolutely destroy other cars in tracks with many straights but if you choose a curvy track, the Mustang is really really slow. At least for me, its what it made these cars interesting in this game. Not just GT3s with different appearance.

As i always said, classic content in this game has tremendous amount of potential where I hope SMS will expand them further. Whether its a 70s F1, a 60s touring car or a 80s GT, it is always great fun to drive these vintage vehicles.

They did do a great job with the old cars, I have more fun with them then I do with most of the newer cars in the game.

jhonatas
09-10-2015, 18:20
Historic Touring Car will run today
What is the best car?
BMW 2002 Escort MK1 or Mustang?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
09-10-2015, 18:29
Mercedes is the most fun at least in a race for me (not that the others are bad, but the Merc is just ridiculously fun), and a monster on tracks with lots of straights. =)

Krus Control
17-10-2015, 14:16
I think the vintage cars are the crown jewel of PCARS. They're all done so very well and with such care. About this Mustang. It doesn't really compete with the Escort or Mercedes because it is underpowered compared to them. You can still (I can) win races in the Mustang but brake fade is near triple what it is in the other cars and tire falloff is a bigger issue. I usually go for the Mustang if nobody is fast or nobody picks the Mercedes. It's a really nice challenge. A strong racer in the Mustang is about equal to a weak racer in the Escort. The BMW though, it's miles behind. If you win in the BMW it's just that the other people were slow. The BMW is over 2 sec per minute slower than the Mercedes on speed tracks and still slower on tight ones. It has to be said, though, that I do like this balance in the class. This is the type of balance that existed in classic racing. Some cars were faster by a lot. It wasn't at all like modern air restriction homologated racing.