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cenkcnk
07-10-2015, 19:30
Hello,
ı want to ask that, in the online sessions, all of the oponents are extremely fast than me. from lmp to formula or gt class. i try to set up my car but they can overtake me on both straight and also corners. what makes them so fast or what makes me so slow? which settings make that difference? i mean 10-15 seconds per lap

Schnizz58
07-10-2015, 19:41
Setup can gain you fractions of a second, perhaps even up to a few seconds but 10-15 seconds probably has more to do with how you drive than how you setup the car. Have a look at this thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?28168-Develop-Your-Skills-Safe-is-Fast) and the videos linked in it for some tips on what's important with regards to driving style.

Seelenkrank
07-10-2015, 20:21
braking and cornerspeed (in and out)
learning by doing!
choose practice session and do laps (many laps!)
try different brake points, different gears/speed entering the corner and watch how fast you leave the corner and what speed you reach on the followed straight.
try slow in ,fast out (slow means not to fly from the track,not eldery-people-drive-on-highway-slow)
thats the secret of beeing fast (sounds easy ;) )

SpeedDog
07-10-2015, 20:31
I'm afraid it comes down to practice, practice, practice and more practice. Go to time trial and pick a ghost slightly faster than you and follow it and watch the lines and as you get faster just pick a faster ghost

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
07-10-2015, 20:46
I wonder at what point it becomes counterproductive to pick a ghost that's only slightly faster than you. I mean, if there's a 15-20 second difference on a 2 minute lap, then that is sign of a fundamental flaw in the driving, even spinning once, maybe even twice doesn't add up to that much in most situations. So picking a car that's slightly faster than you, lets say by 3 seconds, what are you going to learn? It's still going to be fundamentally flawed. It might be better to pick a significantly faster ghost, like one that's 5 seconds behind the leading times, then try to follow that one corner at a time. At least that lap will be representative of something closer to a normal lap one should drive, and won't enforce bad driving even more. If you get left behind right on the main straight, then you know your exit from the last corner was too slow, work on that. If you can just about keep up with it on the main straight but get left behind in the 1st corner, work on that. Then the 2nd corner, and so on.

I dunno, just a thought. I just tend to think that following a bad lap isn't necessarily a good idea, even if it's slightly less bad than yours.

ex_
07-10-2015, 21:32
I wonder at what point it becomes counterproductive to pick a ghost that's only slightly faster than you.

IMO, if one is not very fast and trying to get faster, they should try someone a little bit more than a few tenths faster, but not necessarily one of the top 10 or even 100. Their ghosts are quickly out of range for usefulness after a couple turns.

Schnizz58
07-10-2015, 22:19
IMO, if one is not very fast and trying to get faster, they should try someone a little bit more than a few tenths faster, but not necessarily one of the top 10 or even 100. Their ghosts are quickly out of range for usefulness after a couple turns.
That's true but I've heard the advice that you should only work on a couple of corners at once anyway. So start the lap and work on the main straight and the first couple of corners. By then the ghost is gone so circle around and pick up the ghost again at the S/F line. Lather, rinse and repeat until you can hang with him to turn 3 and then start working on that one. Continue until you can more or less keep up with him all the way around. I can see that being a viable way to go.

The other option is to pick a ghost that's a few seconds faster, practice until you can beat him, then pick another ghost a few seconds faster than that and keep doing that until you're as fast as you're going to get. I wonder which method would yield results quicker.

DECATUR PLAYA
07-10-2015, 23:00
Hello,
ı want to ask that, in the online sessions, all of the oponents are extremely fast than me. from lmp to formula or gt class. i try to set up my car but they can overtake me on both straight and also corners. what makes them so fast or what makes me so slow? which settings make that difference? i mean 10-15 seconds per lap

I wouldn't start with a ghost because you will focus on the ghost more than your car. Pick your favorite car and go to your favorite track and find out what's the fastest time for that class of car at that track and go from there.

Start with a lap time where you keep all 4 wheels on the track for the entire lap. It does not matter how fast the lap time is just focus on keeping all 4 wheels on the track. Then try to improve on that time let this be your focus. As you run practice laps trying to improve on this time you will begin to feel the car. Every bobble or jerk or wheel spin will start to give you feedback on your mistakes and then you can improve on your mistakes. Once you get a consistent lap time that you can come close to running over and over that's when you begin to work on the car.

There are no magic settings that will make you faster only practice and then making the car fit your driving style. The better you get at this with one car and one track the easier it will be with other tracks and other cars.

Comairis
07-10-2015, 23:05
Its funny cause all advise missed out the fundamental ability to slow down your AI"s in all the races including practice sessions. Just before the race "where you hit the race button " there are sliders at the bottom you can adjust to beginner etc. In the competition race the sliders are located inside the setup option. Also you should know even with that adjustment in your favor you must learn to drive "flat out " on the track and that's where the given advice is applicable. You can reset your race always when the AI's smash you off the track and send you into a spin. That's until you have practiced enough to hold your own on the track..remember flat out especially when you have only 2 laps in a race " in pole position or not ". By the way in competition races the AI's will always be as fast as you and your driving skills will prevail to the podium.

Schnizz58
07-10-2015, 23:12
Learning from the AI isn't always a great idea. It's fine for learning the driving line but their braking points can be significantly different from ours. They brake a lot later than we can get away with at high settings and brake way too soon at lower settings. Somewhere in there is a setting that should be Goldilocks and I think it's around 70% or so.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
07-10-2015, 23:28
Learning from the AI isn't always a great idea. It's fine for learning the driving line but their braking points can be significantly different from ours. They brake a lot later than we can get away with at high settings and brake way too soon at lower settings. Somewhere in there is a setting that should be Goldilocks and I think it's around 70% or so.I don't know, I can often outbreak the AI even at 90+%. At 100% it's indeed difficult.

Schnizz58
07-10-2015, 23:32
I don't know, I can often outbreak the AI even at 90+%. At 100% it's indeed difficult.
Valid point. I haven't been in that rarefied air very much. Also they sometimes brake in mysterious places.

senn
08-10-2015, 00:25
first off, make sure your controller is working properly. You can do this by looking at the telemetry screen, to check that the brake input isn't dragging etc. Second point - Straight line speed. All things being equal, assuming you hit the accelerator at the same time as the other person, your speeds should be close. Check in car setups that the Restrictor is open (if available) and that the Wastegate pressure is up (if available) Other things that will affect speed - Tyre choice (grip). Sometimes Automatic tyre selection won't give yout the BEST tyre, so it's always worth checking manually. Gear Ratios will also affect how the car accelerates.

The biggest factor however, is YOU. If you don't have a lot of driving experience (real life, or simulator) then here is my advice. Start with the slower cars, Road cars. Learn the tracks at a slower pace. It will take time, but you speed will, over time, increase. Watch other people who are slightly faster, and learn where you can get quicker...and eventually get more time than them. Also, reading some racing technique literature (google, there's loads of it) on cornering etc can help you understand where you can gain time.

HypoToad
08-10-2015, 03:44
first off, make sure your controller is working properly. You can do this by looking at the telemetry screen, to check that the brake input isn't dragging etc. Second point - Straight line speed. All things being equal, assuming you hit the accelerator at the same time as the other person, your speeds should be close. Check in car setups that the Restrictor is open (if available) and that the Wastegate pressure is up (if available) Other things that will affect speed - Tyre choice (grip). Sometimes Automatic tyre selection won't give yout the BEST tyre, so it's always worth checking manually. Gear Ratios will also affect how the car accelerates.

The biggest factor however, is YOU. If you don't have a lot of driving experience (real life, or simulator) then here is my advice. Start with the slower cars, Road cars. Learn the tracks at a slower pace. It will take time, but you speed will, over time, increase. Watch other people who are slightly faster, and learn where you can get quicker...and eventually get more time than them. Also, reading some racing technique literature (google, there's loads of it) on cornering etc can help you understand where you can gain time.

Great advice, I am not the fastest but I used to roar up to corners, slam the brakes on and then try and roar out, and like the OP I couldn't figure out why the other cars were so much faster than me, then I slowly learned that I had to slow down before the corners and speed up as soon as I could in the corner and keep accelerating, the sooner you can start accelerating out of a corner the higher the top speed on the straight or the sooner you get to that speed. Soon you will take notice where to start slowing down for each corner and where to start accelerating, it will become second nature after a while. So like senn said start with slower cars so you can perfect your style then gradually go to faster cars.

3800racingfool
08-10-2015, 04:04
http://www.drivingfast.net/

Read. Re-read. Apply.

You won't gain 10-15 seconds by setting up the car. Ever. If it's not a controller issue as senn suggested then it's likely a faulty technique somewhere which, fortunately, is correctable. The guide linked will get you started off on the right path and, with practice, will likely help you shave a good number of seconds off your time.

hkraft300
08-10-2015, 04:37
I done it backwards with pCars: jumped straight to the Formula A and LMP1.
Even did some laps of Gt6 to warm up (lol) before I went and picked up my copy of pCars on release day.
Boy, was I shocked...

Anyway. Start slow. Career mode from the karts isn't a bad place to start your driving. Before you get on track though, have a squiz here:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?28168-Develop-Your-Skills-Safe-is-Fast

odemode
08-10-2015, 05:12
I did over 50 laps last night on time trial to try and beat a mate his time was a 2:01:596 and mine was a 2:01:665. 50 LAPS!!! That 100 minutes on one track in one car to try and gain .069

hkraft300
08-10-2015, 05:25
^ law of diminishing returns.. Or something like that.
Reason why I avoid TT. I'll do so many laps. And tweak the setup. And more laps. And I'll get faster. Then I'll plateau. Then I'll get frustrated. Then make more tweaks in desperation, which completely ruins the setup. Then my times will start to get slower. Then rage quit.
You know the struggle.

HypoToad
08-10-2015, 07:41
^ law of diminishing returns.. Or something like that.
Reason why I avoid TT. I'll do so many laps. And tweak the setup. And more laps. And I'll get faster. Then I'll plateau. Then I'll get frustrated. Then make more tweaks in desperation, which completely ruins the setup. Then my times will start to get slower. Then rage quit.
You know the struggle.

I am the same in time trials I do my fastest laps near the beginning then get over zealous and stuff up, but in races I get faster towards the end.

cenkcnk
08-10-2015, 08:16
Guys, thank you for your kind answers.
yesterday i entered a lmp server. first i tried default settings, i was beaten
then i tired some settings camber, pressure etc.. i was beaten very hard.
on the straight, everyone just passed me by, while i was flooring the gas.
so i thouhgt i was making serious setting mistakes. i tried short then long gears, speed or acceleration downforces but no use, results were the same.
there was a guy in front of me and he was always spinning, but then he was passing me as soon as he recovers from the spin on the damn straght road.
my acceleration and top speed were both terrible against them.
i just wonder if there was a key setting
regards

hkraft300
08-10-2015, 08:40
Is it possible your pedals/ controller wasn't giving the full throttle signal?
Look for the green acceleration bar in the telemetry.
What were you driving? The RWD P30 (also the Lotus 98T, BMW 320T, Zakspeed Capri, Sierra Cosworth...) has a waste gate pressure setting: turn that to max for full power.

RTA nOsKiLlS
08-10-2015, 08:46
I don't understand why people reckon a setup is only going to gain you fractions of a second. It depends on how good you already are, and if you know the track.

Take someone who doesn't understand the tuning. They set their car for Acceleration, and give it max downforce, then they go and drive Le Mans. If you give that person a decent setup, that will easily knock 5-10 seconds on their time. (Assuming they can keep it on the track)

Last night, I was racing GT3 at Le Mans, I was in the Merc, and I was gone. Massive lead in 1st place, until a spin out. Got going again, set my best lap on the next one, 3.52.7. I won, but the guy in 2nd place was driving the M3 GT, and he got a 3.51.
If I were to jump into that M3, I'd be running 4 minute something. Im sure I could tune it and make it faster than standard.

A good setup, can and will save you loads of time, if your current setup is 10 seconds off the pace. (staying on track is the key)

If your 10-15 seconds behind, are you running with Assists on or off?

cenkcnk
08-10-2015, 08:46
i will check them both. "wastegate setting" i think i have never touched that, i hope it helps.
btw i am playing career %65 difficulty and i can barely beat them. is it too bad for me?
thanks.

@RTA nOsKiLlS
i disabled the assists, do they use them?

SpeedDog
08-10-2015, 09:06
Jussi I DO tend to agree with you but posted what I did because I found you can't see the ghost if its that much faster so you can't see the line they take. It can also demotivate you if you think you can't get anywhere near the ghost. I think it's down to the individual in the end.

hkraft300
08-10-2015, 09:45
Not bad...
But I will say you want to practice more before you look at being competitive in MP. Maybe have a tweak of some settings and try some setups from this forum or the database.
You may have just been unlucky and found yourself in a lobby full of guys that run <3:25 at Le Mans and that's bloody quick.
RTA is kind of right: if you're already really good, you'll get fractions of a second on a qualifying setup but gain minutes over an endurance race with good tire temp/wear rates, consistency etc... If you're average like me there may be bigger gains...

RTA nOsKiLlS
08-10-2015, 09:50
i will check them both. "wastegate setting" i think i have never touched that, i hope it helps.
btw i am playing career %65 difficulty and i can barely beat them. is it too bad for me?
thanks.

@RTA nOsKiLlS
i disabled the assists, do they use them?

Ohhhhh your playing career. I thought you were talking about online play. I have no idea if the AI use assists, I've never touched career mode.

But its still worth a try, just to see if your times improve or not. It could help bring your times down. :)

cenkcnk
08-10-2015, 10:01
no i also play mp, and i mentioned all mp, career just was a data to compare with.
all my problems are related to mp timings. i meant do other players use aids.

havocc
08-10-2015, 10:02
^ law of diminishing returns.. Or something like that.
Reason why I avoid TT. I'll do so many laps. And tweak the setup. And more laps. And I'll get faster. Then I'll plateau. Then I'll get frustrated. Then make more tweaks in desperation, which completely ruins the setup. Then my times will start to get slower. Then rage quit.
You know the struggle.

This is me at Nurb with Sls and Le Mans with DBR1-2, yesterday i managed to do 3.33.28 0.9s faster than my best time mostly because i did well at Mulsanne turn and Porsche curves, at nurb there's no way i can't beat my best (also because i hate that car)

RTA nOsKiLlS
08-10-2015, 10:12
no i also play mp, and i mentioned all mp, career just was a data to compare with.
all my problems are related to mp timings. i meant do other players use aids.

LOL, ok.

Yes, in multiplayer lots of people a using assists. Me included. But it depends on the lobby you join. Some like to force them off for everyone.

I first started playing this game with only ABS, and people were just driving round me, when it felt to me like there was no grip. I saw a few clips from pretty fast people and saw they had ABS, TC and SC on. So I did the same, and there was grip.

Some of that will have been because I wasn't used to the game/car/track at the time, but I still use them now. Certain cars just dont need them, like the Clio, the Mclaren 12c GT3 doesn't need TC or SC in my opinion, same for the Aston Martin GTE (This just needs some power ;) )

My cars are tuned using TC and ABS, if they are simply turned off, the result is not always great. The setup needs to change quite a bit for me to drive without ABS and TC, I can still do it, I just can't be bothered concentrating that hard with the controller.

RTA nOsKiLlS
08-10-2015, 10:18
@havocc - Regarding tuning, When you set your best time, quit out, and save the setup to another track (one you dont like/play), That can be your backup while your tuning. If you mess the tune up, you can get it back, by loading up the backup and re-saving it the track your TTing.

A good tip for tuning any car, Only change 1 thing at a time. That way you can feel the difference the particular setting has done, and easily go back to where it was if it doesn't feel good. If your changing loads of things then testing again, thats when its all too easy to screw the tune up.

:)

hkraft300
08-10-2015, 12:01
This is me at Nurb with Sls and Le Mans with DBR1-2, yesterday i managed to do 3.33.28 0.9s faster than my best time mostly because i did well at Mulsanne turn and Porsche curves, at nurb there's no way i can't beat my best (also because i hate that car)

The Lola can go faster than that mate! Try downforce 2-3 front and rear, see how you go.
She's got the legs to boogy ;)

havocc
08-10-2015, 13:26
I keep losing at t3 more than what i gain at t1 and t2, arnage and porsche kill me

Edit: 3.32.3, stiffened rear ARB, increased gear ratios and increased brake mapping did the trick and i fuc*ed up badly at mulsanne...

Mahjik
08-10-2015, 16:04
cenkcnk,

The best thing to do is to start with a single car class (pick LMP, GT, street cars, whatever just pick one). Next, pick a single track. I would recommend something that isn't too long so you can get in repetitions. I would recommend something like Watkins Glen. Next, see if you can record a lap and post here. The community can help provide pointers for your driving.

Another option is to use one of the Telemetry apps (as it appears you are on PC) to get your lap data. Then compare that to someone faster. You'll be able to see where they are making their speed compared to your lap.

Lastly, make sure your pedals are working properly. Pull up the telemetry HUD while driving and make sure your accelerator is using 100%.

PTG Baby Cow
08-10-2015, 17:26
I wonder at what point it becomes counterproductive to pick a ghost that's only slightly faster than you. I mean, if there's a 15-20 second difference on a 2 minute lap, then that is sign of a fundamental flaw in the driving, even spinning once, maybe even twice doesn't add up to that much in most situations. So picking a car that's slightly faster than you, lets say by 3 seconds, what are you going to learn? It's still going to be fundamentally flawed. It might be better to pick a significantly faster ghost, like one that's 5 seconds behind the leading times, then try to follow that one corner at a time. At least that lap will be representative of something closer to a normal lap one should drive, and won't enforce bad driving even more. If you get left behind right on the main straight, then you know your exit from the last corner was too slow, work on that. If you can just about keep up with it on the main straight but get left behind in the 1st corner, work on that. Then the 2nd corner, and so on.

I dunno, just a thought. I just tend to think that following a bad lap isn't necessarily a good idea, even if it's slightly less bad than yours.

Well i already typed this up once and then done know what happened. But jussi i agree. I used to follow some people like a second faster than myself and found i wasnt learning the proper lines, braking points, or even the correct tune/build(forza) for the car and wasnt really improving. Then someone recomended doing what you say and follow the top guys even if you cant keep up with them and do it one corner at a time and my times started plummiting. Now i am usually somewhere near the top of the leaderboard.

Also, I dont care what you do to this mans setup, he is saying hes playing online which isn't usually filled with quality players anyways and he is 10-12 seconds off of the top 5 guys. That puts him somewhere around probably 15-20 seconds off of the top drivers. That is a huge margin and there is absolutely nothing you can do to a tune, hell as someone else said i could spin 2-3 times before i lose 12 seconds. Fundamentally he needs to learn the racing line proper braking points and throttle and brake control before he should even really worry about tuning the vehicle. The stock tunes are pretty safe tunes and he should do fine in there. Opening up tuning for someone who doesnt even understand proper racing technique is like trying to teach kindergartners triganomatry. If you dont know how to drive atleast average than there is no way you are going to properly tune a car. All he will be doing is adjusting the tune (if he understands what things do) to go around his own major driving faults.

senn
08-10-2015, 18:17
learning the racing lines properly is why I suggested using a slower breed of car. Gives you more thinking time while you're learning, more leeway with late braking etc. Get smooth, the speed will come with practice.

Oilseal
08-10-2015, 18:32
Wheel or gamepad or keyboard?

Suggest you get a wheel. Try E Bay for budget versions

10-15 secs/lap is a lot

Regards

Oilseal

ex_
08-10-2015, 18:58
That's true but I've heard the advice that you should only work on a couple of corners at once anyway. So start the lap and work on the main straight and the first couple of corners. By then the ghost is gone so circle around and pick up the ghost again at the S/F line. Lather, rinse and repeat until you can hang with him to turn 3 and then start working on that one. Continue until you can more or less keep up with him all the way around. I can see that being a viable way to go.

The other option is to pick a ghost that's a few seconds faster, practice until you can beat him, then pick another ghost a few seconds faster than that and keep doing that until you're as fast as you're going to get. I wonder which method would yield results quicker.

The latter is what I was referring to / recommending for genuinely slow drivers trying to get to the point they are at least competent. The former suggestion, IMO, does not take into consideration that this genuinely inexperienced player is not likely to reach "alien" status any time soon, if ever. They'd likely be discouraged by just how much faster the aliens are, and the latter is more likely to provide enjoyment as they reach each milestone in speed.

to each his/her own :)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
08-10-2015, 19:44
The latter is what I was referring to / recommending for genuinely slow drivers trying to get to the point they are at least competent. The former suggestion, IMO, does not take into consideration that this genuinely inexperienced player is not likely to reach "alien" status any time soon, if ever. They'd likely be discouraged by just how much faster the aliens are, and the latter is more likely to provide enjoyment as they reach each milestone in speed.

to each his/her own :)True, but it can also reinforce bad habits which can be very difficult to learn out of later. That's why I suggested looking at people around 5 seconds behind the top, they're by no means aliens but should already have the basics down for the most part.

PTG Baby Cow
08-10-2015, 20:05
Depends what track tho. 5 seconds may be the difference between 1st and 3rd on the tracks with very few times. ;)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
08-10-2015, 22:57
True, but unless the track is super long, 5 seconds still means roughly the same difference in driver level. Just because the filler isn't there doesn't change that. =)

gelfie
09-10-2015, 02:54
Do Time Trials.

I spent weeks hot lapping on Road America and was getting 2:08's with a very occasional 2:07 at best. In and out of the pits tweaking various settings based on what I read on the internet the night before... all with no improvement.

Then I started racing Ghost Cars that had slightly better times than me. Once I beat that one, I'd pick a new Ghost Car with a slightly faster time again. And all of a sudden I was doing better lap times without worrying so much about tweaking the setup every 3 laps.

The problem was me. Racing the Ghost Cars let me see what lines they were taking, and where my line was faster than their's or where their's was faster than mine. Also, it makes you go all competitive and I think you just concentrate that much better.

Anyway after a few days of this I wound up with a 2:06.5 or something like that. My PB at Road America, and enough to put me into 4th place on the leaderboard at the time.

I think Time Trials are definitely the best way to get faster, they're fun, you still feel like you're racing and you do just soak up the best ways to get around the track.

Of course in a real race, often the best way to get around the track is occupied by another car, so at that point you need to get inventive. Go wide where you normally go narrow. Go fast into a corner you usually go slow into... just mix things up each lap until you find out which alternative gives you the edge on the car in front.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
09-10-2015, 08:18
The think is gelfie, you weren't that far from the top to begin with, so when you were picking ghost cars that were slightly faster than you they were more or less driving correctly already. Someone who was doing let's say 2:23-2:28 times picking a slightly faster ghost would pick something in the range of 2:20-2:25, and that ghost would not be driving around the track properly. Following a ghost like that, thinking that it was how you were supposed to do it could be detrimental.

Here's a thought: At least on PC the game allows 3 ghosts. I wonder if someone who's like 10-15 seconds behind the WR could get a workable solution from picking ghosts that are like 5, 8 and 10 seconds faster, so they have multiple points of reference? It could also help with the "One True Line" syndrome, and shift the focus slightly more towards where and how much to brake and where and how much to accelerate instead of just following the line, which I think is a problem for many people. You can go around a corner quickly on many different lines, emphasizing different things, and especially when racing against others you can benefit massively if you can develop a flexibility to drive quickly on multiple lines.

PTG Baby Cow
09-10-2015, 13:01
Jussi,

The only thing i would do instead of 3 ghosts that are about a second or 2 apart I would do differently is 2 ghosts about 5-7 seconds a lap quicker and then my own ghost, just to see where i was losing the time before and to also see if i improved. Once i did improve i would reload and use the new ghost. I really wish xbox had 3 ghost option.

gelfie
10-10-2015, 05:06
Good point. Of course you do have to pick a ghost you can keep in sight, you're not going to learn much if he just leaves you in the dust.

Shinzah
10-10-2015, 06:07
Here's a thought: At least on PC the game allows 3 ghosts. I wonder if someone who's like 10-15 seconds behind the WR could get a workable solution from picking ghosts that are like 5, 8 and 10 seconds faster, so they have multiple points of reference? It could also help with the "One True Line" syndrome, and shift the focus slightly more towards where and how much to brake and where and how much to accelerate instead of just following the line, which I think is a problem for many people. You can go around a corner quickly on many different lines, emphasizing different things, and especially when racing against others you can benefit massively if you can develop a flexibility to drive quickly on multiple lines.

One should at least strive to learn the 'classic' racing line before becoming unorthodox, as that is the line that most competitors would be most likely to use. Of course, that's a realworld philosophy but the benefit is still quite large.

Developing unorthodox lines is difficult for a beginner if they don't understand how it works already. Once you know how a line works you can understand the strengths and weaknesses and begin adopting and adapting to a particular technique.

Edit: Developing unorthodox lines is crucial for driver development, as you'll want to know the strengths and weaknesses of each particular approach to each particular line in each particular class of vehicle. This way you will be able to plan out overtakes well in advance by understanding the guy in front and which corner you can exploit him at. But to get there, you must actually be able to race the guy in front.

hkraft300
10-10-2015, 07:35
Shortest way round the track isn't always the fastest.
Alternate lines provide options for dummies and passes during a tight race.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
10-10-2015, 15:17
Shortest way round the track isn't always the fastest.
Alternate lines provide options for dummies and passes during a tight race.Actually I don't think shortest way around the track is ever the fastest. If it was, every oval would be driven constantly touching the inside edge of the oval, every corner you'd go around on an inside-inside-inside line instead of outside-inside-outside, etc. The fastest way around the track is tends to be a balance between the way that maximizes the corner radius in each corner (out-in-out, larger corner radius means shallower corner, which means higher speeds are possible with the same amount of cornering grip) and lines that allow you to get the maximum acceleration for the corner exit (late apex techniques etc.).

And how all this balancing works out depends on the car (and the capabilities of the driver to exploit the car's capabilities), for example some really really grippy cars with not that much power can actually take a tighter line that higher powered cars that must worry about power oversteer can, really hugging the inside for a longer time because they have an abundance of grip by comparison, whereas with the more powerful car a late apex technique that makes the corner exit as straight as possible can work a lot better. Or some vintage cars which don't like to turn when off the throttle and need to be balanced through the corner with the throttle input can benefit greatly from staying on the outside longer and accelerating through the corner way before reaching the apex. There are legitimate reasons why different cars would take very different lines through corners.

Shinzah
10-10-2015, 15:20
Actually I don't think shortest way around the track is ever the fastest. If it was, every oval would be driven constantly touching the inside edge of the oval, every corner you'd go around on an inside-inside-inside line instead out outside-inside-outside, etc. The fastest way around the track is tends to be a balance between the way that maximizes the corner radius in each corner (out-in-out, larger corner radius means shallower corner, which means higher speeds are possible with the same amount of cornering grip) and lines that allow you to get the maximum acceleration for the corner exit (late apex techniques etc.).

And how all this balancing works out depends on the car (and the capabilities of the driver to exploit the car's capabilities), for example some really really grippy cars with not that much power can actually take a tighter line that higher powered cars that must worry about power oversteer can, really hugging the inside for a longer time because they have an abundance of grip by comparison, whereas with the more powerful car a late apex technique that makes the corner exit as straight as possible can work a lot better. Or some vintage cars which don't like to turn when off the throttle and need to be balanced through the corner with the throttle input can benefit greatly from staying on the outside longer and accelerating through the corner way before reaching the apex. There are legitimate reasons why different cars would take very different lines through corners.

There are some ovals where you DO want to take the inside line consistently. Most of them are super speedways, but there are speedways and short tracks as well. Though most ovals tend to rely more on the outside line, using the centrifugal forces against the left (or right, if your UK/OZ) side of the car to push it up towards the cushion.

Understanding how the lines work is important ^^;

hkraft300
10-10-2015, 15:49
Even the outside-inside-outside line, maximising the corner radius, is not always the fastest/best way round.
Hawthorn bend at Brands Hatch for example has a bump near the apex that upsets an LMP car. You can take the chance at qualifying, anticipate the kick and hold a high speed, but doing that lap after lap at a race is bad for tire life and risky in traffic. The outside line on that bend has plenty of grip and keeping the speed up pays dividends in high downforce cars and presents passing opportunities.
Different cars like Jussi said prefer different lines too.
Some tracks/bends I'll take a different line in the Ruf and it plays to my favour in a tight race. I watch the P30 get thrown into a corner but I can't drive the Lola quite the same. Give her some TLC and wow she can dance ;)

Shinzah
10-10-2015, 15:51
That's kind of weird, my Lola even outclasses the P30's titanic amounts of entry grip...

It can get a little dodgy on the exit though, because the P30 has that active ERS that just pumps all of the power ever to the wheels. So it counterattacks really well. Sometimes too well. And I have to shoot by it again.

I have rare battles with the P30 if there's an Etron in the field though. The Etron is just bonkers.

hkraft300
10-10-2015, 15:59
Might be the weight of the V12. I have to be a little smooth on entry and exit. That said, with an extra click or 2 or downforce Lola walks all over P30. ETron is tough but at faster tracks I just rope them in on gear 4/5/6... Even with higher downforce to match the grip and corner speeds of the P30 and ETron, the Lola doesn't run out of e-puff like the hybrids.

Shinzah
10-10-2015, 16:03
Yeah it has power for days.

Days and days hkraft.

days and days and days.


The Etron puts up one hell of a fight though. Very similar top ends. Very similar levels of grip. In a shorter race the Etron has a slight advantage and it's a definite slog. But in long races its disappointing because the AI Etrons pit every 30mins or so. They must be running max power mode and eating through soft tires to put themselves in that situation.

ex_
15-10-2015, 17:51
^ law of diminishing returns.. Or something like that.
Reason why I avoid TT. I'll do so many laps. And tweak the setup. And more laps. And I'll get faster. Then I'll plateau. Then I'll get frustrated. Then make more tweaks in desperation, which completely ruins the setup. Then my times will start to get slower. Then rage quit.
You know the struggle.

But each time, your plateau is higher and higher.