PDA

View Full Version : How do weather slots work?



CountingFrames
11-10-2015, 01:58
Does 2 slots = 2 hours
What does 2x weather progression do?

What can I expect from two 30 minute sessions (practice and quali) and an estimated forty five minute race?
With two slots set as below.

Two slots. Cloud in first. Rain in second.
Ran it and stayed dry for first hour.
Then opened up to rain immediately on change of session to race. Seems like an hour a slit to me?

Seemed like that rainy session was going to get a full cycle of dry, wet, dry in only forty minutes or so.
I only did six laps before I had to get off.

I'm looking for the math equation and times that these are active. Thanks if you can help.

Edit: I've had a search around and that appears to be the case. Still feel free to drop any comments or observations.

Mascot
11-10-2015, 07:41
It would be nice if all of this was overtly explained in the UI, but like a lot of info in pCARS it's all hidden behind flashy-looking but functionally-inadequate menus.

Aizcold
11-10-2015, 13:40
As far as I know the weather slots each take one hour when progression is set to real. When it's set to x2 they take half an hour, and so on. There are transition periods between weather slots though and they seem to be somewhat random in length, so you'll never be sure when a new slot will start exactly, especially when you have weather progression set to a low value.

I'm not sure what I've just said is 100% accurate, but from my experience it's close enough so I hope it helps you.

Elmo
12-10-2015, 19:51
One of our Weathermen send me a pretty good write-up how the system works on a high-level:


Internally weather system we have is actually quite robust in how it can receive weather forecast information.

The way it works is that you can feed it a condition and how long that condition will last for. With that information it will create a timeline that will playout. It works basically on a 24 hour clock.

Saying all that we did not expose all this functionality to the player because frankly we was thought it was a little bit of overkill..
(As you all know PCars was a co-operative development and I think we forget a little how a simple menu like this can be confusing to people only buying the game anew.)

Ok so the when you look at the screen screen the first option you can see is a menu item called weather slots
Here you can select between 1 and 4 slots.
Using these slots, the race setup will feed a weather timeline into the weather system.

Each slot represents what the weather will be at the top of every hour with slot 1 being the race start time slot 2 race start time +1 hour and so on. We repeat this cycle over a 24 hour period.

For example we setup a system with 2 weather slots one rainy one clear and the race time at 2pm.
Race setup will feed a timeline to the weather system something like this:
at 2pm weather will be rainy and it will be like that for 40 mins.
at 3pm weather will be clear and it will be like that for 50 mins ...
at 4pm weather will be rainy and it will last 53 mins...
at 5pm weather will be clear and it will last 35 mins ..

What this will do is when you start the race it will be raining and will so for the first 40mins.
Then at 2:40pm the weather will start to clear up and by 3pm it will be fully clear and stay that way till 3:50pm and so on.
(note the time the weather would last for is random, it was thought exposing info like this would again be too much information)

Ok so that's all simple enough. Now where it gets a little confusing


Somewhere along the development process people wanted to decouple the weather from the day and night cycle.

So for example they wanted the weather to be changing a lot but have the time of day to stay the same.

So what we did was decouple the weather timeline progression (Weather Progression) from the day night (Time Progression) .
This meant for example you could have the weather speed at 60 i.e 1 second equals 1 min but time of day at real time.

So in the example above
if we had the weather progression at realtime it would take 40 mins for the weather to start to transition to rainy.
But if we set it to 60 it would only take 40 seconds.

Then later in the project it was proposed that instead of the weather timeline being a time based thing people wanted it to happen based on how the race progressed..
So a new option was added to the Weather progression slider called "sync to race"
So the way it works is each slot would represent a proportion of the race, so if we had 2 slots they would represent the the first and second half of the race , if 4 slots then each quarter of the race.

So again taking our above example it would mean the following.
The Start of the race as always rainy and the end of the race would always be clear.
e.g If you had a 2 lap race you would start of raining and the time the leader went started the second lap the weather would be clear.

flymar
13-10-2015, 12:41
One of our Weathermen send me a pretty good write-up how the system works on a high-level: It's missing the handling of practice/qualification time with connection to race start.
And handling the real weather with "Sync to race setting.

Bealdor
13-10-2015, 12:58
It's missing the handling of practice/qualification time with connection to race start.

Sorry for the shameless self advertisement but you can use my Quick Race Weekend Event Planner (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?37514-QRWEP-Quick-Race-Weekend-Event-Planner) to understand the weather and time progression system better.

Unfortunately there was a bug introduced with patch 5.0 that forces the time of day and weather to reset with every session.


And handling the real weather with "Sync to race setting.

AFAIK "Sync to Race" is/should not be available when using real weather.

Some more comments regarding the weather system:


"Real Weather" takes the current weather and forecast (max 24h) from the track location you're racing at.
It includes the weather changes that will happen at this track IRL. It's not static.


Each weather will start at the top of an hour real time, it will have a duration of somewhere between 10 and 50 mins then it will transition to the next weather slot.
If you set it to "real time" it will take 4 hours to cycle through all four slots. So you'll not experience all weather conditions in shorter races.

You can scale the weather slot duration with the slider. So if you put it on 10x the weather slots will change every 6 mins.


There's also a "Sync to race" setting for the durations slider but from what I've read this is PC only unfortunately.


AFAIK the slot itself is one hour but there's always a transition phase between those slots. And the start time and duration of those transitions is random.

So if you set two weather slots (Clear -> rain) for example, you can never be sure when exactly it will start to rain.


In career mode the weather transitions are linked to the race length. That's why the track dries up very quick in short races.
Essentially every race that is shorter than 2 hours and uses more than one weather slot has some kind of accelerated weather transitioning. (At least that's how I understand the system)


Because the RANDOM slot isn't predetermined when you start the session. So if the weather jumps from randomslot_2 back to randomslot_1 it will once again randomly choose a weather condition and not take the one you had first.

Example:

Non random weather: slot_1 -> slot_2 -> slot_1 -> slot_2 -> slot_1 -> slot_2...

RANDOM weather: randomslot_1a -> randomslot_2a -> randomslot_1b -> randomslot_2b -> randomslot_1c -> randomslot_2c... with randomslot_1a ≠ randomslot_1b ≠ randomslot_1c


Weather system explained here:

Weather Slots: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29820-How-is-the-weather-slot-system-implemented-exactly

Real Weather: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29801-Real-Weather-from-online-current

Weather in Career mode: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?28295-Scripted-weather-in-solo-career

flymar
13-10-2015, 13:47
Sorry for the shameless self advertisement but you can use my Quick Race Weekend Event Planner (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?37514-QRWEP-Quick-Race-Weekend-Event-Planner) to understand the weather and time progression system better.

Unfortunately there was a bug introduced with patch 5.0 that forces the time of day and weather to reset with every session.



AFAIK "Sync to Race" is/should not be available when using real weather.

Some more comments regarding the weather system:

Deer eel. There's no need for wall of links. I know how the system works. Just have the doubts that I wrote above. And now I know, well... kind of.
practice/qualify bugged so it resets but it should use first slots (depending on time) but how it suppose to work with "Sync to race"
Should it sync to practice+quali+race?
career+sync to race - only devs know. I could come with my own 'AFAIK' but first hand info would be nice:)

Raven403
13-10-2015, 14:14
Deer eel. There's no need for wall of links. I know how the system works. Just have the doubts that I wrote above. And now I know, well... kind of.
practice/qualify bugged so it resets but it should use first slots (depending on time) but how it suppose to work with "Sync to race"
Should it sync to practice+quali+race?
career+sync to race - only devs know. I could come with my own 'AFAIK' but first hand info would be nice:)

But Practice+Quali being bugged isnt new to 5.0, far as I can tell. The weather progression has never worked properly when you have multiple sessions, especially in multiplayer. It usually locks the weather in one slot and never changes when you have multiple sessions.

And how does Sync to Race work exactly when you include multiple sessions? As asked above.


Unfortunately there was a bug introduced with patch 5.0 that forces the time of day and weather to reset with every session.

Wait, really?? So every session will revert to whatever time of day its set to start at??? :hopelessness:

Bealdor
13-10-2015, 14:18
And how does Sync to Race work exactly when you include multiple sessions? As asked above.

Short answer: Not at all.

Raven403
13-10-2015, 14:19
Short answer: Not at all.

And that's being addressed or....

KkDrummer
13-10-2015, 14:20
maybe this topic should become a stickie so it doesn;t get lost ???

Stocky
13-10-2015, 15:17
Wait, really?? So every session will revert to whatever time of day its set to start at??? :hopelessness:

Time progression & weather progression will both reset back to the original settings at the beginning of each session.
And if that weather slot was set to random, it will repeat the exact same weather order for every session as well.

Example...
Practice went from clear to rain to hazy.
2nd practice was the same order.
Qualify was the same order.
Warm up was the same order.
Race was the same order.


There's no work around for Leagues with random weather.
I can work around the duplicating order, I can work around it resetting, but I can't work around both.
This really hurts, and I am cancelling one of our League Seasons come Friday if not fixed.
Very disappointing for our drivers.

Raven403
13-10-2015, 15:19
Time progression & weather progression will both reset back to the original settings at the beginning of each session.
And if that weather slot was set to random, it will repeat the exact same weather order for every session as well.

Example...
Practice went from clear to rain to hazy.
2nd practice will be the same.
Qualify will be the same.
Race will be the same.

Oh so it won't be Random every time? If it generates rain it'll be rain every time?

Mahjik
13-10-2015, 15:20
maybe this topic should become a stickie so it doesn;t get lost ???

No need. The developers don't use this forum for tracking. When they get alerted that there is an issue, once they evaluate if it's an issue or not they log an error report in their own tracking system. The issues around weather have been logged so they have the information they need in their system. If they request more information, the mods will ask for it.

Stocky
13-10-2015, 15:32
Oh so it won't be Random every time? If it generates rain it'll be rain every time?

Yes, every session will duplicate itself.

I think the way they have it is, when a game is generated, the random order is picked, and then it saves it.
It doesn't generate a new random order if it resets back to the first session. I don't think they ever thought that would happen.

N0body Of The Goat
13-10-2015, 15:32
Oh so it won't be Random every time? If it generates rain it'll be rain every time?

Yes, the "random" slots of weather do seem to not be random when a new session (practice 1, practice 2, qualifying, warmup, race) starts. If all "random" slots were "thunderstorm" in practice 1, those same slots in the sequence will be "thunderstorm" for all subsequent sessions.

At the same time (pun, pun ;) ), the time of day will restart at the beginning of each new session, to whatever time was configured for the "race start" option.

I demand we hear Bonnie and Cher singing "I've got you babe" at the start of each new session until this issue introduced in patch 5.0 is fixed. ;)

Raven403
13-10-2015, 15:38
Thanks for the info! Puts a damper on upcoming league race planning :(

Stocky
13-10-2015, 15:44
By the way, I just tested this in single player, and I could not duplicate the random weather repeating. It seems to be online only. If that helps SMS determine where the problem lies.
I can duplicate the sessions restarting though.

flymar
13-10-2015, 21:00
By the way, I just tested this in single player, and I could not duplicate the random weather repeating. It seems to be online only. If that helps SMS determine where the problem lies.
I can duplicate the sessions restarting though.
But can you replicate random slot duplicating in SP AND multiple sessions?
...
Nevermind. I'll check it when I have the time. Weekend perhaps.

Stocky
13-10-2015, 21:10
But can you replicate random slot duplicating in SP AND multiple sessions?
...
Nevermind. I'll check it when I have the time. Weekend perhaps.

Sessions restarting happens in single and multiplayer.
Repeating the same original random order happens only in multiplayer from session to session.
Random using race sync is broken in single and multiplayer.

Hope that answered your question. I have more posted under 5.0 pc release notes.

Gravit8
14-10-2015, 00:09
Thanks for dropping stuff here guys. Appreciated.

Even if a little confusing.
Is what's stated above accurate about 5.0 and changes or new bugs?

norbs
14-10-2015, 00:25
Trying to plan races with weather for multiplayer is near impossible. And the fact SP and MP seem to react differently means it is even more difficult.

MrBlacky
16-10-2015, 15:34
No need. The developers don't use this forum for tracking. When they get alerted that there is an issue, once they evaluate if it's an issue or not they log an error report in their own tracking system. The issues around weather have been logged so they have the information they need in their system. If they request more information, the mods will ask for it.

A quick question:

So the devs know about this bug?

Because that does apply to everything. If you set 6 pm starting time with 60 minutes qualifying, the race will not start at 7 PM as intended, but again at 6 PM.

Bealdor
16-10-2015, 15:40
A quick question:

So the devs know about this bug?

Because that does apply to everything. If you set 6 pm starting time with 60 minutes qualifying, the race will not start at 7 PM as intended, but again at 6 PM.

Yes, we've already forwarded this issue to them.

OctoberDusk06
22-10-2015, 14:59
A quick question:

So the devs know about this bug?

Because that does apply to everything. If you set 6 pm starting time with 60 minutes qualifying, the race will not start at 7 PM as intended, but again at 6 PM.

I've hosted dozens of on line races, and many with multiple slots on xbox. My experience is that the time progression acts independently of the weather obviously, which can cause confusion. Indeed time will progress (e.g. if you set to 5x time progression, 15 mins. in real time = 75 mins. 10 mins. = 50 mins., etc.) and continue from the start.

So I think we need to define some things here, like "race" and "session". By race, Mr. Eel, I think you and others mean "event" or "the whole enchilada" and not just the actual race. And please correct me, but "session" I thought was the entire number of "slots" (no altering that Mod! :-O) you pick. So, for instance, if you have 5x time with 2x weather, your weather "session" will reset at the beginning of the top of the cycle (e.g. the first slot), and "rest" would imply that the slot (1-4) will now go for one hour, instead of your chosen weather progression. Right? No big deal if you want to keep the whole shebang somewhere around 2 hours, but gets a bit complicated after that. Going back to the example, W=2x T=5x, with a practice of 15 mins. and a qualy of 15 mins. and a race of 90 mins., you get a nice 2 hour loop for your 2x weather to fit into. (e.g. 30 mins. per slot). But your event, if started at 9am at track, will last for 10 hours because you have time to 5x. And this will start from the jump, no? I can't recall ever seeing the time "reset" in a race. Therefore, it will end in darkness (still not sure what time links to on xbox if the "real life" weather sat. link is busted), because it will end at 7pm. Or will it? This gets back to the link for time. What does it key off of? If we are at Spa, then it should stay light unless daylight savings was either never the law or it reverted back for winter.

The weather I think has been explained very well, but I think the transitions throw people. It does indeed seem to be different every time. But it's roughly correct. Just go with the flow and react like you want to be in a real life race. You don't know then either. :P Or, do your best to backwards calculate the lap times and fit everything in some kind of orderly pattern. Or try to. Bealdor, the calculator is great, but I'm wondering how words are defined there too. When I set my "race" to start at 9am, it gives me a qualy time of 7:30am. (5x time, 2x weather, Spa, roughly 2:22 per lap @ 40 laps). I'm probably doing something wrong. But it nailed the ending time at 9:30pm and it was very dark for about the last 7 laps. (we had an extra 10 mins. thrown in and the race went over 90 mins., but it helps your head and your game to keep things even).

And then you have the 1000 different daylight savings times, all kicking in at different dates. My head now hurts. Poor Bealdor.

flybikes
22-10-2015, 23:25
Now that the patch 5.0 is out, I want to ask to developers to make another Patch (its like a more than URGENT patch...a patch for tomorrow) to fix the weather/time reseting in every session!

It boggles my mind how can they make a thing worse than before.

The level of ridiculous is so high, that now I have to stay with my XBox OFF LINE everytime, just to make sure it doens't update to this patch 5.0 that make the weather useless.

Seriously developers? How many time I will have my XBOX offline?

Dynomight Motorsports
23-10-2015, 02:20
Thanks for the info! Puts a damper on upcoming league race planning :(

Raven, if SMS cared about League play they would have created "League" options like FM5-6 did. Right now the game is still playable to the average commoner, and that's all they really care about. We "Leaguer's" have created our set of issues by demanding options that simply aren't workable and apparently un-code-able. :p

OctoberDusk06
23-10-2015, 02:34
Raven, if SMS cared about League play they would have created "League" options like FM5-6 did. Right now the game is still playable to the average commoner, and that's all they really care about. We "Leaguer's" have created our set of issues by demanding options that simply aren't workable and apparently un-code-able. :p

Do you own Forza6? "League" play is not anywhere close to what you are used to when playing with forum groups. All it does is "organize" people into similar competitions, not long long races where you compete with the same people over and over again and keep score. It's a misnomer, like everything in Forza.

Raven403
23-10-2015, 13:22
Raven, if SMS cared about League play they would have created "League" options like FM5-6 did. Right now the game is still playable to the average commoner, and that's all they really care about. We "Leaguer's" have created our set of issues by demanding options that simply aren't workable and apparently un-code-able. :p

Not sure what "league options" Fm5 had Watts? We had a league there too there were no such options. And league racing makes up a smaller percentage of multiplayer normally I admit, but NOW, I would venture a guess that the only people still playing Pcars online regularly are the league players