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valdzor
15-10-2015, 15:50
So, I just can't understand how the balance is made between those cars...I mean, the audi e-tron multiple Le Mans winner is far slower than the Aston DBR1-2 ...Seriously what?
Same goes for the Toyota TS040...She's a beast at acceleration but damn it looks like without the hybrid system the car is total garbage

It's sad to have to drive a fictionnal LMP just because it's the best we have ( RWD P30 )

RomKnight
15-10-2015, 15:54
I don't know about the LMP1's but the RWD is a beast as LMP2 as well.

And Audi was beaten by Porsche and Toyota in pure straight line speed IIRC. Still is (by the Porsche) and I'm unsure that with the high aero package still is by the Toyota, too.

Mahjik
15-10-2015, 16:01
So, I just can't understand how the balance is made between those cars...I mean, the audi e-tron multiple Le Mans winner is far slower than the Aston DBR1-2 ...Seriously what?
Same goes for the Toyota TS040...She's a beast at acceleration but damn it looks like without the hybrid system the car is total garbage

It's sad to have to drive a fictionnal LMP just because it's the best we have ( RWD P30 )

The Aston is a different year/spec than the 2014 cars. If you look at the Le Man's qualifying times for 2014, Audi was no where near the top:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans#Qualifying_results

They won by strategy and attrition.

Machinist90
15-10-2015, 16:04
So, I just can't understand how the balance is made between those cars...I mean, the audi e-tron multiple Le Mans winner is far slower than the Aston DBR1-2 ...Seriously what?
Same goes for the Toyota TS040...She's a beast at acceleration but damn it looks like without the hybrid system the car is total garbage

It's sad to have to drive a fictionnal LMP just because it's the best we have ( RWD P30 )

how do you know about the TS040? Is it out yet? (not on my steamstore)

valdzor
15-10-2015, 16:22
You can drive the Toyota in Career mode , I had the contract after my GT endurance championship :D.

But still, Lola Le mans 2009 3:27, audi E-tron 2014 3:23 Toyota 3:21

So what's the point? In game we can see : RWD P30/Aston > all cars atm

Mahjik
15-10-2015, 16:29
But still, Lola Le mans 2009 3:27, audi E-tron 2014 3:23 Toyota 3:21

The Lola had issues which hampered it's performance. However, it does have more power than 2014 spec cars. It just never lived up to it's potential.

valdzor
15-10-2015, 16:35
Oh ok, didnt know that.

Btw guys if you have the chance to give a try to the Toyota, you'll see, the hybrid engine looks so powerful you just can't full throttle on the exit of a corner, you have to wait for the car to be in front of the straight and then....BAM 3st gear 4..5..6gear in a second and then nothing, no more power, you're at 280 kmph praying for the straight to end :<

RTA nOsKiLlS
15-10-2015, 16:35
The Aston is a different year/spec than the 2014 cars. If you look at the Le Man's qualifying times for 2014, Audi was no where near the top:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans#Qualifying_results

They won by strategy and attrition.

They all look a bit on the slow side......;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njqxq2v4Es&feature=youtu.be

Don't ask me how I got that laptime....I have no idea.

:)

havocc
15-10-2015, 16:39
Marek has probably the best handling of all lmp1, i'm not saying it's the best at cornering but allows for a very smooth driving

Machinist90
15-10-2015, 16:42
Oh ok, didnt know that.

Btw guys if you have the chance to give a try to the Toyota, you'll see, the hybrid engine looks so powerful you just can't full throttle on the exit of a corner, you have to wait for the car to be in front of the straight and then....BAM 3st gear 4..5..6gear in a second and then nothing, no more power, you're at 280 kmph praying for the straight to end :<

can't seem to find it...not in game and not released yet,I'll have a go when it's out

havocc
15-10-2015, 16:46
They all look a bit on the slow side......;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njqxq2v4Es&feature=youtu.be

Don't ask me how I got that laptime....I have no idea.

:)

That would have been discarded from a community event, 4 wheel out of the white line at arnage :p

RTA nOsKiLlS
15-10-2015, 16:56
That would have been discarded from a community event, 4 wheel out of the white line at arnage :p

Maybe so, but the time would remain on the ingame leaderboard. That's what most people care about.

Also....

I never said it was a clean laptime.

Yes there are a few points where I cross the white lines, but they dont amount to 5 seconds off the TT leaderboard number 1, or 8 seconds off my own personal best.

So I'm at a loss as to how I pulled it off. ;)

balderz002
15-10-2015, 17:08
It would be nice to expand the lmp catagories, just to give a bit more variety. The hy can race against eachother, wth the Aston and the r18, but there are so many to chose from, going from oreca, zytek, pescarolo, Peugeot......... And more I bet!

Paul a.D.
25-10-2015, 16:01
Love this Cars at LeMans


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4vufDTQ6PQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2cL35csoaw

cant wait for the Toyota

biggbaddwolf
25-10-2015, 16:22
Personally I look at it as a game, and doesn't have to be like in real life. Look at Gran Turismo, they make all these non-existent cars, and more cars without a proper interior model, than do have a proper interior, yet they are one of the most successful titles in racing today, and I recently read that GT7 is coming out in 2016 sometime.

Scuderia Paul
25-10-2015, 17:22
Personally I look at it as a game, and doesn't have to be like in real life. Look at Gran Turismo, they make all these non-existent cars, and more cars without a proper interior model, than do have a proper interior, yet they are one of the most successful titles in racing today, and I recently read that GT7 is coming out in 2016 sometime.
PCars is a sim though so the idea is to have it realistic in as many ways as possible. As much as I love GT I admit it's no sim. It's more realistic than every other console racer but it is targeted at a slightly different audience.

balderz002
25-10-2015, 19:50
I don't even mind what era of LMP1 cars we get! 90's and 00's LMP900, 00's LMP1, more Audi diesel's, coupe's or open tops......

KANETAKER
25-10-2015, 22:36
I don't know about the LMP1's but the RWD is a beast as LMP2 as well.

And Audi was beaten by Porsche and Toyota in pure straight line speed IIRC. Still is (by the Porsche) and I'm unsure that with the high aero package still is by the Toyota, too.

I'm sure the RWD P30 should look like or similar in performance to the Porsche 919 Hybrid, considering that both cars have in common at LeMans to reach the highest top speed of the LMP1 Hybrid who participated in the 24 Hours of LeMans of 2015 . in addition it also has a motor that works with gasoline.



They all look a bit on the slow side......;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7njqxq2v4Es&feature=youtu.be

Don't ask me how I got that laptime....I have no idea.

:)

Must have been some kind of bug related to the timing, given that since Update 2.0 can no longer be abused certain curves and chicanes as before, and visually your car does not seem to go very quickly, because in the longest straight barely manages to reach 323 km/h compared to a friend of mine and me who have achieved 335 km/h and with great difficulty achieving a time of 3:19. In addition you have a full tank of fuel while my friend and me were running out of fuel (fuel for only 2-3 laps).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stn280SDxTU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7C4uBPfN74

You can also compare the times in some sectors between your video and my friend (the 3: 19.113). For example, in your video when you mark your time in S1 are 1:12 while my friend in 1:09, so something must have happened to the timing during the 3rd sector.

hkraft300
26-10-2015, 00:09
LMP 1 at Le Mans...
I like them
;)

Seriously the P30 is fast but seems boring to drive for me, it's almost too easy. Love the Marek its frisky as all hell.
Fav is Lola though. I like beating P30's with her. Not that I'm very quick: my best is a 3:26 yet.
You really can't judge the pace of these cars through TT or sprint races/qualifying. They're endurance racing machines. Over a 2-4 hour race they start to fall much closer in race time. The P30 can't do 10 laps at full boost without a mech fault. It also struggles for cooling the hottest part of the day. The Marek can keep blasting round though, and is much more enjoyable to drive. Not sure how it'll go for fuel consumption though. The Lola barely keeps oil at 100c with 30% radiator on a hot track. ETron keeps pace with the P30 but may have the advantage of longer stints and a more durable motor.
The TS040 will throw a spanner in the mix. The LMP900 aren't far behind on some tracks.
Not sure why GT3 is so popular - reckon the LMP cars are closer/ better matched in pace.

KANETAKER
26-10-2015, 03:05
LMP 1 at Le Mans...
I like them
;)

Seriously the P30 is fast but seems boring to drive for me, it's almost too easy. Love the Marek its frisky as all hell.
Fav is Lola though. I like beating P30's with her. Not that I'm very quick: my best is a 3:26 yet.
You really can't judge the pace of these cars through TT or sprint races/qualifying. They're endurance racing machines. Over a 2-4 hour race they start to fall much closer in race time. The P30 can't do 10 laps at full boost without a mech fault. It also struggles for cooling the hottest part of the day. The Marek can keep blasting round though, and is much more enjoyable to drive. Not sure how it'll go for fuel consumption though. The Lola barely keeps oil at 100c with 30% radiator on a hot track. ETron keeps pace with the P30 but may have the advantage of longer stints and a more durable motor.
The TS040 will throw a spanner in the mix. The LMP900 aren't far behind on some tracks.
Not sure why GT3 is so popular - reckon the LMP cars are closer/ better matched in pace.

Most people who whine because P30 is "OP" (according to them), it must be because so far they have not run races longer than 1 or 2 hours, which is when you can notice the strengths and weaknesses of each LMP1 car ... apart from the other reason which would whine because they fail to be very fast with this car; while other players have indeed managed to take advantage of the full potential of P30.

I have seen that most of the players (PC) have only run races up to 10 turns (35 minutes) at LeMans, which is not enough to complicate the mechanical strength of P30, especially if some hosts accidentally misconfigured date LeMans race in placing the current date (fall / winter in Europe) instead of the original date of race in June (European summer), which would have more heat. Although colder weather is not good in the sense that the tires lose a lot of grip on the nights of autumn and winter due to the low track temperature.

If we compare the P30 with Marek (fictitious cars), these would be their strengths and weaknesses:

Marek:
+ Good acceleration and power output curves and from the grill.
+ Excellent grip in fast corners (comparable to the Audi R18 e-Tron Quattro)
+ Very reliable engine, allowing push all the time to the maximum.
+ Lower fuel consumption. (Equivalent to less time in the pits, and less pitstops rivals in races longer than 2 hours)
+ Less wear on tires. (Equivalent to less time in the pits, pitstops less than its rivals in races longer than 2 hours, and the possibility to make an extra stint without changing tires)
- Lower top speed on long straights, which puts it at a disadvantage against the other LMP1 cars. So only on circuits with long straights it is at a disadvantage, while in normal circuits can fight hand in hand in terms of speed.
- Low traction out of slow corners (compared to P30 and Audi, but better than the DBR1-2)

P30:
+ The fastest car in general, not just in fast corners but especially on long straights.
+ Set the right way can overcome the barrier of 330 km/h on the long straights of Le Mans without losing grip on fast curves.
+ Very stable car and good grip.
- Motor unreliable and easily overheats, so in long duration and high ambient temperature must be careful not to push the limits all the time.
- Any damage to your body (however small) can affect the performance of the engine and its cooling, so the pilot would be forced to go to repair the damage to avoid breaking the engine.
- High fuel consumption, which means more pit stops in long races against Marek.
- Increased tire wear, so to save some pit stop would have to use harder tires with less grip and thus losing track performance (slower laps).
- Slow to accelerate from the grid or from the rolling start, so you can easily lose positions during the 1st round vs. AUDI, Marek and DBR1-2. (I think it must be a bug and would have to correct it, because it is useless to have obtained the Pole Position with the P30, if on the starting grid you will lose the position against a AUDI that be starting from the 2nd, 3rd or 4th place).

And that personally I feel very upset when with the Update 2.0 increased too much the tire wear due to complaints from casual players (who usually only play racing less than 1 hour) as they say" the tires were not have much wear" (including at 4X). I think so SMS should have only increased tire wear from 2X, and NEVER modify or increase the Real tire wear; Because of this exaggerated increase wear, now you can not perform the same maneuver executed by Nico Hulkemberg and André Lottherer at LeMans 2015 overnight, where they could make up to 4 stints without changing tires, or even more reckless of Benoit Treluyer at LeMans 2011 where he made five stints with the same set of tires to save a 40-second pitstops vs. the Peugeot 908 # 9. For now the only solution is to run with tire wear in SLOW if you want to emulate long races over 2 or 4 hours.


PD: If someone wants to play racing over 2 hours at LeMans, you can count with me.

Gabin
26-10-2015, 05:31
Le Mans 1968 on board view Ford GT40


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMzgeEWqXPQ

hkraft300
26-10-2015, 16:34
Agree on all counts except the tire wear and starting grid issues.
Tire wear is dependant on many factors, most obviously/crucially driver style and operating temperature. If you drive gentle on the tires, maintain them around ~90c (lower end of optimal). If you're pushing hard, but your tires are 100-105c you may get slightly better lap times but they won't last as long so you end up with slower race pace from more pit stops.

Starting line take-off is gear-ratio and power curve dependant. P30 has narrow power band and lots of turbo lag. Very low torque at lower RPM range. Plus the hybrid motor doesn't work below ~120kmh, and auto-clutch is horrible. Maybe make 1st gear shorter? Anyway it has the grip and downforce to catch other cars when they pass at the lights.

KANETAKER
26-10-2015, 17:29
Starting line take-off is gear-ratio and power curve dependant. P30 has narrow power band and lots of turbo lag. Very low torque at lower RPM range. Plus the hybrid motor doesn't work below ~120kmh, and auto-clutch is horrible. Maybe make 1st gear shorter? Anyway it has the grip and downforce to catch other cars when they pass at the lights.
I've tried placing 1st and 2nd gears more lower (faster), but have not had the desired effect. The problem is only in or released from the grill, not when accelerating out of corners to outputs.

Well, so far I have not been able to run a good start at full speed either starting from the grid or a flying start. Only when I have other cars P30 placed on the first 4 behind me positions I had no trouble keeping the 1st place because those other P30 also suffer the same problem as me, plus they serve me as a defense against AUDI, DBR1 -2 and Marek have classified behind me; because when those cars are able to advance in the output to the other P30 and reached the 2nd place, I will have already taken the 1st corner and escaped alone through the long straights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yizx14XhMLc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbocVBO_boM

If only someone knew some method or technique to effectively accelerate correctly and quickly with the P30 without losing positions on the starting grid against other LMP1 I will be very grateful. Unless that is one of the few ways in which the "OP" of that P30 car is compensated vs. the other LMP1 cars, so do not be so far ahead (in addition to the fragile mechanical reliability of the P30). Because depending on how skilled the other drivers are running with AUDI, Marek and DBR1-2 be easy or difficult to recover the 1st position and avoid wasting time stuck behind a slower car., Which would be very bad if that one opponent is a strategy to last longer on track and save time doing less pit stops. (Marek has the advantage in lower fuel consumption and less wear on tires).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J7Xv5O0mA0 Although this problem in the Rolling Start is a programming error of the game, because in no time the cars are properly positioned depending on the positions in which they qualified, that is, there is no on who made the pole position advantage, and who qualified for 2nd place is much better positioned and some meters ahead of poleman.

If there is no solution through a patch, only then the only alternative is to make a complete formation lap before the rolling start, but that can only be done in some online leagues under agreement with the other players, because in games public is impossible to make everyone agree. The biggest problem is that nobody obeys the rule of not overtake positions before crossing the finish line in the rolling start (After passing through the last corner before the main straight.)

So far I have not seen any game where the flying start has been executed correctly and flawlessly as it is in the real WEC races. Example:


https://youtu.be/Y7ZLAorCSr4?t=3m37s In this example of the 24 Hours of LeMans 2015, the Porsche # 18 (black) made the Pole Position and the Porsche # 17 (red) the 2nd place, but after crossing the finish line there only began to attack on the 1st place, as dictated by the rules.


Tire wear is dependant on many factors, most obviously/crucially driver style and operating temperature. If you drive gentle on the tires, maintain them around ~90c (lower end of optimal). If you're pushing hard, but your tires are 100-105c you may get slightly better lap times but they won't last as long so you end up with slower race pace from more pit stops.
My complaints with respect to increased tire wear even in actual "Real Wear" speed was because before Update 2.0 was possible to make at least 3 stints with the same set of tires (soft compound) with the P30 LMP1 (on Real Wear setting), almost like real life (Porsche and AUDI). But now after just 2.0 Update can be done only 1 or 2 stints with the same set of tires (soft compound) depending on the setup, timing, track temperature and driving style (Marek LMP1 being advantaged). At least for now the only solution is to run races with the tire wear on "Slow", but that causes that during the first laps the tires take a while to get optimum performance, but I assume that would be as close to real racing LeMans.

Roadlayer
26-10-2015, 18:57
The 2014 R18 & TS040 should be a comfortable 5-6 seconds quicker than the Aston at Le Mans, even more so on race pace. BTW, what new LMP's and prototypes can we expect as DLC. With no Porsches on the horizon, and a Mercedes C9 in the game, I'm surprised we've not seen Group C and IMSA GTP Jaguars, such as the V12 XJR-9, the V6TT XJR-11 and the V8NA XJR-14. There are also cars like the Rebellion P1 and numerous P2's.

KANETAKER
26-10-2015, 20:26
The 2014 R18 & TS040 should be a comfortable 5-6 seconds quicker than the Aston at Le Mans, even more so on race pace. BTW, what new LMP's and prototypes can we expect as DLC. With no Porsches on the horizon, and a Mercedes C9 in the game, I'm surprised we've not seen Group C and IMSA GTP Jaguars, such as the V12 XJR-9, the V6TT XJR-11 and the V8NA XJR-14. There are also cars like the Rebellion P1 and numerous P2's.

I would like a lot that could put the Peugeot 908 LMP1 (2011 model) in the game, which had a similar performance to the Audi R18 TDI (2011 too). Although LeMans the only advantage of that 908 was his highest top speed on the straights (340 Km/h) and lower fuel consumption and tire wear, because in the AUDI R18 change was in some cases between 1 and 3 seconds faster than 908 (which was slower in the curves), while at other times rolled about 1 second slower than 908, depending on the amount of fuel, tire compound, and driver skill.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27F26UA1i6M

Very important: When someone mentions the Peugeot 908 (2011) many people confused with the Peugeot 908 HDI Fap model used between 2007 and 2010 and is most famous / popular than the 908 model 2011, because with the 908 HDI fap was that Peugeot won the 2009 edition of the 24 Hours of LeMans and that has been present in the last 2 deliveries of the Gran Turismo series (5 and 6) for PS4 and Forza Motorsport.

I have understood that the franchise Gran Turismo has in his hands licenses Peugeot, but it would be nice to know if that involves only the model 908 HDi FAP (since it is the only model they have developed for the GT series) or the license Peugeot covers all Peugeot models manufactured? I ask this question because I do not understand why in the last GT6 (the latest in the franchise) did not include the Peugeot 908 (2011) or the Peugeot 908 Hybrid (2012 model, which could never compete) despite being the last Peugeot developed for racing LeMans, and taking note that did include the Audi R18 TDI (2011).

The only possible reason is that the Peugeot 908 HDI Fap (2010 model) was the fastest prototype that ran at LeMans (with a fastes lap on race of 3:19 by the Peugeot of the team Oreca-Matmut ) until before the arrival of the Porsche 919 Hybrid (on 2014) and his record of 3:16-3:18 in this 2015. It is known that in 2011 there were changes in the rules by which the LMP1 cars became somewhat slower, from 3:19 to 3:25 on race. However, the Peugeot 908 (2011 model) looks aesthetically better and very consistent with current models of LMP1 cars, but above all, the sound of its engine V8 Turbo Diesel was stronger and better than the engine of the Peugeot 908 HDI Fap (2010 model).

Listen to him:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZYxASTvTrQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO6tRAigC3M

Really I do not understand why the V12 engine of the Peugeot 908 HDI Fap (2010 model) does not sound as strong as the V8 engine of the Peugeot 908 (2011 model) despite being a faster car (both Diesel engines). Perhaps because of the different configuration of both engines? Or perhaps because the V8 engine (of the Peugeot 908) is a TURBOcharged?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS8f-KSAJnw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUhtcJHsiawThe engine hardly hear it (as if there was something that reduces their sound). More it listens to the TV narrator. Poor engine sound onboard...

I do not know if SMS Guys could make available a tool to change the sound of some cars like every player, at least the fictional cars as in the case of Marek and RWD, for personal use (not commercial). Personally I would like my favorite LMP1 car had a sound as strong as the Peugeot 908 (2011 model).

Because if the owners of the GT saga not think the Peugeot 908 (2011 model) to develop their game, then they should allow other developers of games can have the Peugeot 908 (2011 model), unless the license agreement Peugeot is too exclusive to the point of not allow other companies to develop even car models that they have not wanted to include in their games (although it could have done). He did not see the point to having in your hands a license (car brand X) and not develop all the racing cars that mark has, but above all, not to allow other companies to develop these cars that they will not develop. It's as if (for example) you had plenty of food that never going to eat and you to have saved without intending to consume (being damaged in the process) as well could make it available to others who could benefit itself will (donate that food to homeless or needy).

balderz002
26-10-2015, 21:31
Didn't Aston Martin bring the DBR1-2 back into service for the post Le Mans rounds in 2011 after their AMR One was a bit of a flop? Didn't it do pretty well in said races?

TXcountry
26-10-2015, 21:43
I just wish I could keep the e-tron from bottoming out constantly and slowing it down. Even with lowest df setting it's scrapes on the straits. Raise the spring rate and ruin the handling. Raise the car still does it. No matter what.

KANETAKER
26-10-2015, 21:46
Didn't Aston Martin bring the DBR1-2 back into service for the post Le Mans rounds in 2011 after their AMR One was a bit of a flop? Didn't it do pretty well in said races?
I have understood that for the 2011 edition of the 24 Hours of LeMans, was a model only DBR1-2 who played this race but from the hands of a private team (Kronos Racing), and that pattern was much slower than the 2009 and 2010 DBR1-2 model due to limitations imposed by the new regulations for the 2011 (DBR1-2 in 2011 maked 3:36.551, but the DBR1-2 in 2010 maked 3:26.680), which also affected the Team Oreca-Matmut who had a Peugeot 908 HDI Fap adapted to the new regulations, so being a very fast car it became slower than new model 908 of the oficial Peugeot Sport Total team.


I just wish I could keep the e-tron from bottoming out constantly and slowing it down. Even with lowest df setting it's scrapes on the straits. Raise the spring rate and ruin the handling. Raise the car still does it. No matter what.
The biggest problem of the Audi R18 e-Tron Quattro (2014) is that the car will need more top speed on the straights, being even lower than the Audi R18 TDI (2011) and the e-Tron Quattro 2015. You can solve preserving some KERS for the end of the straight but instead lose acceleration and speed when exiting corners and with that you lose more time than can be gained on the straights. The model 2015 is much faster than the 2014 model although it is still at top speed exceeded by the Porsche 919 Hybrid.

balderz002
26-10-2015, 21:51
Wouldn't it be good to be able to accurately and properly Nerf the Aston to 2011 spec so it runs historically against the R18 with the click of the mouse. As in have it as an option in setup screen, or if you were hosting an online race, in that setup screen?

Didn't Audi run 2 e-trons and one bog standard R18 one year? The e-trons were a tad quicker iirc

KANETAKER
26-10-2015, 22:08
Wouldn't it be good to be able to accurately and properly Nerf the Aston to 2011 spec so it runs historically against the R18 with the click of the mouse. As in have it as an option in setup screen, or if you were hosting an online race, in that setup screen?

Didn't Audi run 2 e-trons and one bog standard R18 one year? The e-trons were a tad quicker iirc

I have understood that the DBR1-2 that is in the game is the original model from 2009 to 2010, that is, without restriction as happened in 2011. Although still in the game these cars can run faster than in life Real due to various factors and advantages not have a pilot in real life:

- External Cameras, without the uncomfortable cockpit view limits the view from some angles to take certain curves (blind in some cases).
- The player can be sitting very comfortable clothes in a cool room and a comfortable seat, while the pilot must withstand the heat of the suit, the weight of the helmet, the impacts of road, and especially can support the strong of G-Forces.
- Most importantly: A player CAN'T DIE if hit or crash more than 330 Km/h for pushing the car to the limits (in a VIDEOGAME). However in real life to a pilot must have big balls to dare to push a car to its limits with the risk of an accident and die on the track.

For this last reason I say that is that game developers should not follow the same path that the FIA are taking, wanting to turn slower cars on the pretext to safeguard the safety of the drivers. In real life is something understandable, but not in a game where there are no lives at risk. Moreover, if it were up to me the development of this game, I would make a available alternative version of the circuit of Le Mans, where the two chicanes on the straight Hunaudieres / Mulsane must be eliminated, so that cars can reach again the 400 km/h, as it was in the mid 80's.

220895

yusupov
26-10-2015, 23:18
well if im not mistaken it seems the dbr is OP to its real life counterpart anyway --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans

qualy lap time over 5 seconds slower than the 2014 e-tron

yusupov
26-10-2015, 23:20
@kanetaker, i agree a historic lemans would be a nice & seemingly cheap addition, maybe it will be in the track expansion.

hkraft300
27-10-2015, 01:36
Ye rolling starts definitely need a revision. I'd almost recommend giving player control before the final turn, but that could cause other problems. Surely it's an easier fix than AI racing lines, depending on the "mechanism" they use for the rolling start.

Try slipping the clutch a little longer. You know how the revs spike in the P30 on take off? It's the clutch slipping. It's like a small manual car with a small engine, starting uphill. You have to slip the clutch a lot (because it has low torque) to keep the engine spinning, to build a bit of speed to engage the clutch fully and get moving. P30 has a small engine with a big turbo - really low torque at low rpm.

The tire wear was adjusted in patch 2 to be CLoSER to real life wear rates. Before patch 2 the tire wear was too slow. This is a sim, and this game aims to match real life specs of the cars. If a 2014 regularion change made the cars slower than a 2010, so be it. Otherwise you may as well play GT/Forza where you can "upgrade" the engine of an LMP car to 1000+ HP and run 400 kmh.

That raises another point - how about more information on the in-game cars? Not expecting something like the FM5 Top Gear Crew narratives, more like technical information, historic significance, something that's not obvious or makes the car a little special. Yes, I know there's Google, but I was thinking more the dev's notes/ thoughts. It's great how Casey drops some notes on DLC cars on release, with some suspension /wheel ratio numbers etc I guess I'm wanting a little more of that. Maybe some critical info to keep in mind for car setup. Brake disc sizes front/rear? Downforce levels/drag ratio?

KANETAKER
27-10-2015, 03:43
Ye rolling starts definitely need a revision. I'd almost recommend giving player control before the final turn, but that could cause other problems. Surely it's an easier fix than AI racing lines, depending on the "mechanism" they use for the rolling start.
The rolling start system can be improved also implemented a penalty for drivers who overtake positions before crossing the finish line. The Pole man has to be the first to take the initial spurt in a rolling start before the other cars can do, but in the game is quite the opposite, especially with the problem of poor acceleration of P30 at startup.


Try slipping the clutch a little longer. You know how the revs spike in the P30 on take off? It's the clutch slipping. It's like a small manual car with a small engine, starting uphill. You have to slip the clutch a lot (because it has low torque) to keep the engine spinning, to build a bit of speed to engage the clutch fully and get moving. P30 has a small engine with a big turbo - really low torque at low rpm.
I have the same problem either with Traction Control enabled or disabled. Personally I play with the semi-automatic gearbox (up and down gears with paddles located behind the steering wheel G27) and using only the Throtle and Brake pedals. I have configured the clutch automatically because virtually in the fastest modern racing cars do not use the 3rd pedal (the clutch), do not use the hand lever of the gearbox, except in some models of GT3 cars, LMP2 cars and race cars of the 90's and olders (in addition to road cars).

It would be good to know how to use the clutch so that you suggest to offset this disadvantage of P30 at least when accelerating from the grid, since in the case of Rolling Starts it all depends on the cars located behind the P30 respect the rule of not overtake positions before the finish line.


The tire wear was adjusted in patch 2 to be CLoSER to real life wear rates. Before patch 2 the tire wear was too slow. This is a sim, and this game aims to match real life specs of the cars. If a 2014 regularion change made the cars slower than a 2010, so be it. Otherwise you may as well play GT/Forza where you can "upgrade" the engine of an LMP car to 1000+ HP and run 400 kmh.

But the regulations more were directed to the issue of engine power, aerodynamic, and now for the 2016 hybrid system (limit the power of the batteries), with the false excuse of security of the pilots, when it is known to all voices of these speed limitations are intended to prevent the LMP1 overshadow the Formula 1 and that the WEC does not become the new premier class. Motorsports. Many people could see how much psychological damage caused to the directors of the FIA and F1 (Eclestone) when they saw an F1 driver (active) winning the 24 Hours of LeMans this year 2015 (Hulkenberg), and see how a Porsche 919 broke the track record (with chicanes), marking an impressive time of 3:16 for the Pole Position (and the Audi R18 e-Tron Quattro 2015 maked 3:18 on race). Which according to the FIA catalog of "very dangerous for the safety of the drivers". Oh, yes sir... (and other reasons such as lower costs and ecology are other excuses). Maybe in real life is somewhat understandable the issue of security for the lives of the pilots, but in a game that is meaningless, since at least that I know of no gamer has died while playing a game or racing simulator virtual by an accident more than 300 Km / h. So far the only cases of death from video games has been in China but spend more than 2 or 3 days sitting at the computer playing World of Warcraft without food or sleep. (lol)

So far it seems that the restrictions on some cars in the game have been due more to the whining of some players (who have been defeated by other players using these cars, or because they could not win using the same cars) rather than on the ground look closer to the Real parameters of the car.

For real WEC, another restriction was the amount of set of tires available for each car in Endurance race, looking to run slower cars in order to reduce wear on tires to extend its life on track . But despite that Michelin has managed to provide very durable tires but at the same time very effective in court, so that cars can continue exprimiento their full potential. Totally contrary to the Pirelli F1 tires. Because of this it is that in the 2015 edition of the 24 Hours of LeMans could see how Porsche and Audi were able to make true racing sprints using the same set of tires for 3 or up to 4 stints without replacement. Although in the 2011 edition of the Audi R18 of Benoit Treluyer he was able to complete up to 5 stints with the same set of tires, but do not know which compound used, soft or harder.

This type of sprints of 3 or 4 stints with the same set of tires was possible in the game with the Real Wear, even before the 2.0 Update. Since then 2.0 it is only possible to make 1 or 2 rounds without changing tires with P30 or Audi R18, however Marek can do one more than the other LMP1 cars. For races of less than 4 hours it is acceptable this increased wear, but instead to races 6, 12 or 24 hours should use the Slow Wear, to emulate seen in the 24 hours of Lemans real.

jbjs40
27-10-2015, 03:55
In real racing Porsche and Audi were both slower than Toyota. But the whole point of endurance racing is speed aint nothing if it don't cross the line.

KANETAKER
27-10-2015, 04:59
In real racing Porsche and Audi were both slower than Toyota. But the whole point of endurance racing is speed aint nothing if it don't cross the line.
You mean the 2014 season, right? Because only in that season the Toyota TS040 was faster than Posche and Audi (2014 models).

I have to clarify that when I mentioned the Porsche 919 Hybrid was referring to the 2015 model that is clearly faster than the Audi and Toyota. I say this because if you tell me he was referring to 2015 then explains how the TS040 in this season is slower than the other two LMP1 cars? That is, unless you are only seen the top speed of each car on the straights and the power of their KERS. Although I have no idea if the 2015 TS040 was faster on the straights than the 2015 Porsche and Audi, because if so then this 2015 Toyota would have been quite slow in the corners, like the Nissan Nismo LMP1.

Slowsley
27-10-2015, 06:07
You mean the 2014 season, right? Because only in that season the Toyota TS040 was faster than Posche and Audi (2014 models).

I have to clarify that when I mentioned the Porsche 919 Hybrid was referring to the 2015 model that is clearly faster than the Audi and Toyota. I say this because if you tell me he was referring to 2015 then explains how the TS040 in this season is slower than the other two LMP1 cars? That is, unless you are only seen the top speed of each car on the straights and the power of their KERS. Although I have no idea if the 2015 TS040 was faster on the straights than the 2015 Porsche and Audi, because if so then this 2015 Toyota would have been quite slow in the corners, like the Nissan Nismo LMP1.

Without looking at numbers, I'm pretty certain that for 2015 Porsche is the fastest on the straights, Audi is slightly quicker through the corners, and Toyota is only really equal in intermediate conditions. The 2015 Toyota is quicker than 2014 spec but their improvements were smaller in comparison to Audi and Porsche.

ARNAGEist
27-10-2015, 11:50
Without looking at numbers, I'm pretty certain that for 2015 Porsche is the fastest on the straights
Having watched 4 WEC races from trackside this year it is visibly faster no numbers required :cool:


Audi is slightly quicker through the corners watch the 2015 Silverstone or Fuji races to see the relative strengths and weakness.

balderz002
27-10-2015, 14:25
I am a little bit jelous that Forza6 got the Rebellion Toyota R One. Would be great to take that out against the E-tron and 040.............

hkraft300
27-10-2015, 15:12
The P30's problem is its big turbo/small engine issue. Like the Lotus 98T. You can make it take off a little better by pushing 1st gear ratio more towards acceleration. That's about your only available option.

The WEC is the premier "closed wheel" racing competition, and F1 is open wheel. But that's another discussion. FIA have been changing regulations to promote hybrid tech and efficiency, also limit lap times to ~3:30 mark (which it sort of failed at, which isn't a bad thing by any means). LMP cars aren't being "nerfed" like the Bentley GT3 has, which only got BoP to bring it in line with current specs. The R18 TDi is a 2011 spec car. It can't/shouldn't be brought to 2015 spec because it doesn't exist. We have the R18 ETron which is the 2014 spec. Lola Aston which is 09 spec. TS040 also 2014. The P30 and Marek are 2013 spec from memory.

The tire wear issue wasn't to "nerf" the LMP cars. It was to bring wear rates closer to real life specs. Driven and set up correctly, the soft LMP tires can do 2 stints. The medium and hard tires can go further. If you can't make the softs last the distance you want them to, go the mediums. It's called pit strategy.

KANETAKER
27-10-2015, 17:18
The WEC is the premier "closed wheel" racing competition, and F1 is open wheel. But that's another discussion.
Although they have placed LMP1 in the PCARS as the Premier Class of MotorSports (not bad ;) ). It appears located on TIER 1 (ahead of Formula A).


FIA have been changing regulations to promote hybrid tech and efficiency, also limit lap times to ~3:30 mark (which it sort of failed at, which isn't a bad thing by any means). LMP cars aren't being "nerfed" like the Bentley GT3 has, which only got BoP to bring it in line with current specs. The R18 TDi is a 2011 spec car. It can't/shouldn't be brought to 2015 spec because it doesn't exist. We have the R18 ETron which is the 2014 spec. Lola Aston which is 09 spec. TS040 also 2014. The P30 and Marek are 2013 spec from memory.
The positive point for those we like P30 or Marek is that cars are fictional, so whining players can't use the same excuse used against Bentley GT3 (that does not correspond to the real parameters). In addition, both cars are balanced and compensated in some way (P30 very fast but fragile and increased consumption and mechanical wear. The Marek is slower but have less wear and consumption) but these features are only noticeable on long runs (over 1 or 2 hours) which it is what the LMP1 were conceived by something called World Endurance Championship, otherwise it would be meaningless.


The tire wear issue wasn't to "nerf" the LMP cars. It was to bring wear rates closer to real life specs. Driven and set up correctly, the soft LMP tires can do 2 stints. The medium and hard tires can go further. If you can't make the softs last the distance you want them to, go the mediums. It's called pit strategy.
I know that increased tire wear in the game was in general terms and not to categories of cars, but the problem is that apparently has affected to a greater or lesser extent some cars, and in the case of increased wear it has especially hurt the most aggressive and fastest drivers.

As it happened to Lewis Hamilton in the 2011 and 2012 Formula 1 season when Pirelli came to F1 introducing those tires (unlike Michelin tires LMP1) is degraded too quickly, preventing the most aggressive and fastest drivers squeeze the full potential and speed of their cars, instead benefit the drivers who were more conservative and careful handling, such as Button, Alonso and Perez; although there were special cases like Kimi Raikkonen who although he was the fastest drivers could go longer on track with that kind of tires, at least while he was in Lotus between 2012 and 2013. Although Hamilton has been improving and correcting that point weak ... that, or maybe the excellent car manufactured by Mercedes help much, or Pirelli compounds have improved in the last 2 seasons after complaints and the scandal occurred in 2013 season ... who knows ?.

Personally currently only managed to run two stints with the same set of soft tires, when I could do three stints before Update 2.0 (trying to emulate what Benoit Treluyer in 2011 or Hulkenberg and Lottherer in this 2015 LeMans). I feel better if an employee of Audi and Porsche could give me the information on the tire compound used to perform 3-5 stints without changing tires. They may have used the harder compound in the case of 4 or 5 stints.

The best I've raced in LeMans have been 50 laps but not against other players but against the AI that despite putting in difficulty 100 are slower than me (3:26 best lap of IA, while I constantly roll by 3:23 below), so I've hardly tried hard compound to see how many laps they can withstand those tires. Only in other circuits and the GT3 I tested the harder compound but has been with wear set to 2X or 3X, and the only difference is that with a higher wear the medium compound only withstand one or two more laps than soft while the hard compound can withstand 2 or 3 laps. I mean, I do not see much advantage to use the hard compound, wear at least 3X or more. Maybe I should do tests on the hard compound but with Real Wear to draw my conclusions.

hkraft300
27-10-2015, 23:22
Yes, Pirelli are supplying substandard tires to F1, as per Ecclestone's request. Yes they are shit. But again, that's another discussion.

If you are driving so hard and fast as to maintain qualifying pace, your tires will obviously not last the race distance. Soft tires driven appropriately under the right conditions can do 2 stints. Which is normal for GT3/LMP cars. If the track temp is high, or you're struggling to maintain pace because of high temps, try mediums. If you want to play a game where you can just push at 110% pace lap after lap, turn tire wear and mech failures off, it's that simple.

What tires did Trulier race on, to do 5 stints? Maybe he wasn't on softs. Maybe it's not possible on soft tires. If you want to emulate his run, maybe try medium/ hard.

Drivers have to race and maintain their cars to the best of its ability. If a team builds a car within regulation that it's drivers can push 100% all race, every race - that car will dominate and take championships.

Set tire wear to 5x, then do some laps in car X at track Y. if you can do 10 laps on soft, that means with real tire wear you can do 50 laps on soft with Car X at track Y. Which means with 2x wear, you can do 25 laps.

havocc
27-10-2015, 23:44
Yes, Pirelli are supplying substandard tires to F1, as per Ecclestone's request. Yes they are shit. But again, that's another discussion.

And mercedes did unauthorized tests with pirelly becuase their cars were eating tyres, after that they bacame competitive and Fia did not take actions becuase they did that "in good faith"...

hkraft300
28-10-2015, 00:14
And mercedes did unauthorized tests with pirelly becuase their cars were eating tyres, after that they bacame competitive and Fia did not take actions becuase they did that "in good faith"...

And Michelin won't return to F1 if they're forced to supply s* tires :)

From my experience in this game hard tires last almost twice as long as softs. If you can keep a fast enough pace on hard tires, it might be beneficial to save the tire change time in pit stops. Again, falls to your pit strategy.
If AI can't keep up with you kanetaker maybe you should try a different car, or a harder compound tire for a tighter race. It's no fun being minutes ahead of the field all by yourself. May as well do TT/free practice.

KANETAKER
28-10-2015, 02:24
And Michelin won't return to F1 if they're forced to supply **** tires :)
If AI can't keep up with you kanetaker maybe you should try a different car, or a harder compound tire for a tighter race. It's no fun being minutes ahead of the field all by yourself. May as well do TT/free practice.

The only option would be to run with Marek but using hard tires, since only there my race pace is equal to the IA 100% but still win easily achieved because the IA performed change tires in each pitstop when AI should be able to continue with the same set one or two stints. Marek addition to having less tire wear and lower fuel consumption will save time in the pitstops, compensating for the lack of speed on the straights.

A similar example occurred in the 24 Hours of Lemans 2011 in this epic battle between Audi vs. Peugeot. At that time, the Audi R18 TDI was the fastest in LeMans (1 second faster than Peugeot), especially in its passage through curves, but had the disadvantage that its engine car excess fuel consumed; instead the Peugeot 908 was only fast on the straights (340 Km / h of 908 vs 330 Km / h of R18) and lost effectiveness in the corners, but due to its lower fuel consumption could shoot one or two laps more than AUDI before a pitstop, adding to that a lower tire wear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27F26UA1i6M

Please pay close attention between the minutes 0:53:58 and 0:56:51 of this video where the topic mentioned strategies in pitstops.

Yet I have no idea how the Audi R18 (driven by Benoit Treluyer) was able to make up a 5th stint with the same set of tires, considering that were the Peugeot those with less wear on tires, unless Peugeot was focusing only on the soft and medium compounds, while Audi had reserved perhaps its data on how much could last the harder compound to conduct a risk and 5th stint when normal is 4 stints. In this video they never said what compounds were used, but when you consider the lap record 3:25, then chances are they were rolling with the medium and hard compounds, as in the Project CARS can do 3:21 - 3:22 with R18 using the soft compound.

At the end the race ended with the two cars (1st and 2nd place) separated by just 13 seconds for a race car that 24 hours is nothing, while in Formula 1 these 13 seconds apart is too much (for only two hours of race).

Mahjik
28-10-2015, 02:31
And Michelin won't return to F1 if they're forced to supply **** tires :)

Knock off the cursing.

hkraft300
28-10-2015, 02:59
You can do 3:21/22 in the R18 TDi? Wow

If the Marek is still too quick you could try the R18 tdi I found it slower than the Marek but not by much. It also has a problem of power loss in this game over 1 stint (discussed in another thread).

I started this game at 60% AI and struggled. Now, not that my pace is better than 100% AI but I can make the tires last longer so I smash them with pit strategy, but not sure of other classes this is in karts and LMP3.

I guess next step is racing in a league or find some fast friends to race against :)
You're making the tires last a good distance. It may also be possible to do triple stints on softs, driven smoothly (see thread on tire wear indicator ;) )


Knock off the cursing.

Roger

KANETAKER
28-10-2015, 03:17
You can do 3:21/22 in the R18 TDi? Wow

If the Marek is still too quick you could try the R18 tdi I found it slower than the Marek but not by much.

In fact I'm faster with the R18, while Marek for me is slower than the R18 and P30. The key is a good setup. In addition, the time of 3:21 to 3:22 was only on Qualifying (with fuel for 3 laps and all aids enabled), because my race lap times are 3:25 or more with the R18 TDI.

By the way, just once I could get to do 3:21 but it was pure luck and unfortunately I could not record it on video. I have just a video of when I could do 3:22 and I must say that I have more than two months without using the R18 TDI so maybe some parameters have changed and everything is different.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmpcO6mdNN4


It also has a problem of power loss in this game over 1 stint (discussed in another thread).
Where I can find that thread? You could show me a direct link please? I assume must be upgraded to wear parameters implemented in Update 2.0