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Martin03
18-10-2015, 19:59
Hi, if I have understood this right that if I buy the Aston Martin pack now. Then I can not use the Aston Martin DBR1-2 in Endurance series right?

And if you can't do that is there any plans to change that and make that possible? Other wise I see NO reason for me to buy the DLC's. The same with the Audi R18 e-tron.

And also just have to say, this is not ment as a complain that can't do that just some quastions...

TwilightUA
18-10-2015, 20:34
Where you get that information? IIRC buying DLC allows you to use cars in multiplayer and single free mode (and custom race). While DLC cars always avaiable in career if you receive respective contract.

Martin03
18-10-2015, 20:36
Because according to other people some cars, like Aston Martin DBR1-2 and Audi R18-etron is on career mode. But just in LMP1 championship and not Endurance Championship. And the LMP1 championship is just bad/stupid in my opinion...I mean no offence or anything, guess alot of people like it but 20minute races MAX in LMP1 cars are just wrong and booring for me...

Cholton82
18-10-2015, 20:46
They are not in endurance , neither is the Bentley GT3 or Aston GTE .

Shinzah
18-10-2015, 21:17
The game has a hard limit on unique car models that can be in a given race. The limit is something like 10 unique models. So when spread across four classes it is difficult to balance them. That is why you do not see these cars in the Endurance tier.

There are no publicly announced plans to change it, but it has been brought up.

The DBR1-2 is a poor choice for the Endurance mode as it can out-last the other cars in the class with no penalty to speed. The car itself would need to be rebalanced in order to make it competitive, or it'll perpetually need probably less pit stops. It's balanced well for the shorter LMP1 career races.

Gravit8
18-10-2015, 21:36
The game has a hard limit on unique car models that can be in a given race. The limit is something like 10 unique models. So when spread across four classes it is difficult to balance them. That is why you do not see these cars in the Endurance tier.

There are no publicly announced plans to change it, but it has been brought up.



The DBR1-2 is a poor choice for the Endurance mode as it can out-last the other cars in the class with no penalty to speed. The car itself would need to be rebalanced in order to make it competitive, or it'll perpetually need probably less pit stops. It's balanced well for the shorter LMP1 career races.


Gasp. Did you say they bring out DLC cars that are imbalanced to other cars? Therefor making the DLC needed to be competitive? Cause that's what I hear when you say imbalance.
Thanks for confirming.
That's just so dirty SMS! I knew this was afoot.

No doubt people are abusing this somewhere.

How slow is that Toyota gonna be at the end of the month? Haha.

Shinzah
18-10-2015, 21:45
The car is balanced for the career tier it's actually used in.

If you think that a six year old race car under entirely different rules is easy to make competitive, that's silly. It's also silly to put on a tinfoil hat. The car was never meant to be run against six year newer LMP1's in that configuration of racing.

Didn't you just make a post about how creating dissent is a poor idea? The only way this is abused is if people are using the car in long LMP1 online races and are capable of setting the car up to take advantage of it. Few people are running long LMP1 online races.

Gravit8
18-10-2015, 22:09
Don't think I'm ever going to be the model citizen here. Just a fair and respectful one. Mostly.

And these cars should be balanced to real life. Not to a specific part of the game.
No doubt people have figured out what you have and abuse a special setup is all.
Cars should be consistent.
There's no reason the bentley should be as fast as it is.
Other than its dlc.
The bentley is made for lemans and is good there. But it's a turd on a small track, in real life. and that isn't reflected in game. It's a monster everywhere.
Dlc shouldn't be made monsters just because people will need them to compete.
Make them real, not fantasy.
To fill out rosters incorrectly because there are gaps that need to be filled?
It fills holes, but makes exploits in the game?
Not accurate then

Btw. Public Online doesn't matter. No one is racing anything there really.
It's all league racing. There are as many private lobbies going as public ones I'd guess. And we know the leagues run longer races. Sooo...

Bealdor
19-10-2015, 06:48
The game has a hard limit on unique car models that can be in a given race. The limit is something like 10 unique models. So when spread across four classes it is difficult to balance them. That is why you do not see these cars in the Endurance tier.

That 10 car model limit was just during development. It's 16 for 32bit PC and consoles and 32 for 64bit PC now.

This is the reason why there are no new Endurance contracts available:


Adding new contracts to hook DLC cars into a multi-class series is unfortunately exponentially more complicated than in single-class series. The multi-class championships were originally finely balanced to provide a good spread of cars from each class. With how the whole career system was designed for Project CARS, adding a new car to class X now would mean needing to remove a car from class Y, or replacing a car in class X, which would upset as many people (if not more) than what we'd be pleasing by doing that. We are still investigating if there's a solution that's within scope (ie, won't require us rewriting the whole system and causing all sorts of possible issues in the process).

Chunsey Wang
19-10-2015, 07:40
That 10 car model limit was just during development. It's 16 for 32bit PC and consoles and 32 for 64bit PC now.

This is the reason why there are no new Endurance contracts available:

I imagine this will affect custom championships then when we get them

QPRLad
19-10-2015, 10:15
I imagine this will affect custom championships then when we get them

Don't hold your breath.

Bealdor
19-10-2015, 10:18
Don't hold your breath.

I do.


It's been nudged internally guys, we're on it.


It's coming as soon as it's solid :)

QPRLad
19-10-2015, 12:45
Will this come with a big patch which will also give us an option to make QWR a timed event instead of No. of Laps and a few other large requests?

Chunsey Wang
19-10-2015, 16:00
Hope it doesn't effect custom championships too much then,but suppose that depends on how much control we get over class/car selection etc when its released

diesel97
19-10-2015, 16:20
Are people saying the DLC's are over powered so that forces you to buy it to be competive ? One problem with the tin foil hat is that EVERYONE can drive the DLC cars online.

Cholton82
19-10-2015, 17:03
I don't think they are overpowered it's just that they are sometimes from a different year with different regs like the lmp1 Aston .
I think the best thing would be to remove say the R18TDI lmp1 car and replace it with the E Tron , then add the Toyotas in .
And remove GT4 class from endurance and replace with GTE . Make the M3 GTE class and race it alongside the Aston GTE and possibly the Z4 . Lmp1 lmp2 GT3 GTE

Gravit8
19-10-2015, 23:11
Are people saying the DLC's are over powered so that forces you to buy it to be competive ? One problem with the tin foil hat is that EVERYONE can drive the DLC cars online.

Yeah. But you can't prepare or tune dlc before hand. Soooo......
Yeah. Pretty much the same thing.
The league I'm waiting for runs these all the time for "race now events"
But I avoid them because I know I'm way behind on tuning them. Well more than way behind.
I have no tune at all.
And I've never joined a dlc room, nor have I seen one really. Nor would I.

I would test drive it, but I don't want to race a car I can't tune. No thanks

diesel97
19-10-2015, 23:16
Gasp. Did you say they bring out DLC cars that are imbalanced to other cars? Therefor making the DLC needed to be competitive? Cause that's what I hear when you say imbalance.
Thanks for confirming.
That's just so dirty SMS! I knew this was afoot.

No doubt people are abusing this somewhere.

How slow is that Toyota gonna be at the end of the month? Haha.


Don't think I'm ever going to be the model citizen here. Just a fair and respectful one. Mostly.

And these cars should be balanced to real life. Not to a specific part of the game.
No doubt people have figured out what you have and abuse a special setup is all.
Cars should be consistent.
There's no reason the bentley should be as fast as it is.
Other than its dlc.
The bentley is made for lemans and is good there. But it's a turd on a small track, in real life. and that isn't reflected in game. It's a monster everywhere.
Dlc shouldn't be made monsters just because people will need them to compete.
Make them real, not fantasy.
To fill out rosters incorrectly because there are gaps that need to be filled?
It fills holes, but makes exploits in the game?
Not accurate then

Btw. Public Online doesn't matter. No one is racing anything there really.
It's all league racing. There are as many private lobbies going as public ones I'd guess. And we know the leagues run longer races. Sooo...


Yeah. But you can't prepare or tune dlc before hand. Soooo......
Yeah. Pretty much the same thing.
The league I'm waiting for runs these all the time for "race now events"
But I avoid them because I know I'm way behind on tuning them. Well more than way behind.
I have no tune at all.
And I've never joined a dlc room, nor have I seen one really. Nor would I.

I would test drive it, but I don't want to race a car I can't tune. No thanks

you can say that about any track car combo

Shinzah
20-10-2015, 05:16
Btw. Public Online doesn't matter. No one is racing anything there really.
It's all league racing. There are as many private lobbies going as public ones I'd guess. And we know the leagues run longer races. Sooo...

I'm addressing this in specific.

Assuming this is true, it's the leagues responsibility to balance the league effectively. I've run leagues. So has others here. Some of us in the early days of Project Cars multiplayer with far, far less ability to balance a league than now.

This is a league responsibility. This is not an SMS responsibility. SMS's responsibility is to provide the content and balance it well in its intention in all aspects of the game. In this case it means adding a *very* popular car to a *very* popular class. There's only one feasible way to balance the car to that class, and that was to balance it to one-stint length races.

If the car wasn't classified in that class, it'd be a single car. People would complain. Especially those who'd want to race it against the other cars in that class using class filters.

Leagues are responsible for running Leagues. SMS is responsible for delivering content that appeals to the majority of all users. If that's a problem for you, the content is optional and so is driving against people with it.

QPRLad
20-10-2015, 11:06
I'm addressing this in specific.

Assuming this is true, it's the leagues responsibility to balance the league effectively. I've run leagues. So has others here. Some of us in the early days of Project Cars multiplayer with far, far less ability to balance a league than now.

This is a league responsibility. This is not an SMS responsibility. SMS's responsibility is to provide the content and balance it well in its intention in all aspects of the game. In this case it means adding a *very* popular car to a *very* popular class. There's only one feasible way to balance the car to that class, and that was to balance it to one-stint length races.

If the car wasn't classified in that class, it'd be a single car. People would complain. Especially those who'd want to race it against the other cars in that class using class filters.

Leagues are responsible for running Leagues. SMS is responsible for delivering content that appeals to the majority of all users. If that's a problem for you, the content is optional and so is driving against people with it.

Which is why in some/most Endurance racing they limit the size of the tanks of some cars depending on the fuel consumption of that car right? to match it to the worst, balancing the field?

Akra
21-10-2015, 15:45
I understand that balancing the classes in the Multi Class championships is harder because the AI has to interact better. In most games, a P1 car trying to lap a GT car will get stuck behind it. This can happen in pCars, but most of the time it has to be said, it's clean and works. This makes pCars, IMO, the best game for simulating multi class racing. I'm in a P2 car in the Endurance series right now and really loving it because of the mixed class racing. I get that adding a bunch of new prototypes and gt cars into the mix introduces a lot of problems, because these AI cars now have to interact in a multi class way perfectly. So there is very obvious and difficult issues to overcome.

There is very little issue in balancing the performance of a single class however. The argument of the Lola Aston ran to different rules doesn't really wash whilst we have a BMW M3 GT2 car detuned to GT3 levels, and the brand new Aston Martin GTE car has had similar treatment. That's fine and it makes sense with what SMS is trying to achieve.

However, there is an argument to be made that this is not disclosed well enough by SMS before buying the content. In fact, even before the DLC content was added to the single class career structure, the description stated "naturally integrate your career"* - which was not true. At that point it did include it in ANY career mode and just had some single races dotted around. Even now, strictly speaking, it does not fully integrate with your career as it doesn't work in certain series. So right now, the DLC doesn't really do what it claims they do and you only find that out on internet forums. I understand the logistical difficulties, I really do. Making games is bloody hard work. But this content has been paid for, and should work to the level that the marketing states.

So i do look forward to being able to race these cars in multi class events eventually.


*this description was on the Xbox Live Marketplace