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View Full Version : Steering input mode 2 for wheel highly recommended.



ThunderKnob
19-10-2015, 07:24
I used to have it set to mode 3 as I'd seen that recommended in this forum.

I'm using a thrustmaster tx with fanatec pedals and the thrustmaster shifter.

I'm enjoying the driving experienced so much more.

The steering feels perfect now.

Give it a try. Didn't take long to feel that it is the best for feel and linearity.

Yes I have played with steering sensitivity. Been set to 50% since forever.

Liquid7394
19-10-2015, 08:33
I thought that the 3 modes are only for controllers?

Zenzic
19-10-2015, 08:37
That was my impression too.

gti
19-10-2015, 08:38
I thought that the 3 modes are only for controllers?

Ditto ... now I am all ears ...
Can someone please confirm for wheel users?? I am with mode 3/advanced on all default for the 3 options under it) ... and just ignored them all the time.

Zenzic
19-10-2015, 08:40
and just ignored them all the time.

Especially since those three advanced options reset to their default values every time the game is restarted. No idea if this has been fixed in the meantime.

RomKnight
19-10-2015, 08:43
I'm under the impression that it is not the first time I read that these options impact the wheel users...

ThunderKnob
19-10-2015, 10:44
Yep. I used to think that the physics were not as good as other sims but now it's just awesome.

jhonatas
19-10-2015, 11:00
any response of the producers of the game?

aleph99
19-10-2015, 13:39
any response of the producers of the game?

This question is being asked since the game was launched and, to my knowledge, has never been answered, just speculated upon. It's just one of the many mysteries surrounding the FFB system. I second jhonatas: this would be a good time to clarify the matter. Anyone from SMS?

ThunderKnob
19-10-2015, 13:45
If you have a wheel. Set each setting and rotate your wheel while in cockpit view. For me mode 2 is linear to the on screen wheel while 1 and 3 are not.

The game never felt quite right for me until I tried mode 2

balderz002
19-10-2015, 14:30
If you have a wheel. Set each setting and rotate your wheel while in cockpit view. For me mode 2 is linear to the on screen wheel while 1 and 3 are not.

The game never felt quite right for me until I tried mode 2

I might try this tonight, although i have adjusted the deadzones, i still get a bit of a deadzone in the steering, more than i would like.

copes24
19-10-2015, 15:06
This will really make my head spin if true.

diesel97
19-10-2015, 16:01
Does any body now who is the lead FFB for SMS ? (if they have one , which would explain alot )

I have never seen anybody from SMS post about FFB , and its a shame because that one of the biggest black holes in the game

redruMKO
19-10-2015, 16:22
They can't possibly have one. Or else he is the most shy person in the world.

konnos
19-10-2015, 16:52
I can't say I have noticed a difference from type 3 to type 2, so it might be wheel specific? Or just placebo

HEF51
19-10-2015, 16:56
Just goes to show you having too many options can also be a bad thing.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
19-10-2015, 20:04
Especially since those three advanced options reset to their default values every time the game is restarted. No idea if this has been fixed in the meantime.
They haven't. I still turn soft steering dampening off every time I start the game.


If you have a wheel. Set each setting and rotate your wheel while in cockpit view. For me mode 2 is linear to the on screen wheel while 1 and 3 are not.
It matches perfectly for me in mode 3 with a T300RS, same angle every time I've consciously looked at it. Maybe another setting interacts with mode.

P.S. The default "advanced" options change with mode. That might be the difference. Might not.

balderz002
19-10-2015, 20:08
It might be a placebo, but I think it feels a bit nicer. Good spot!

redruMKO
19-10-2015, 20:48
It might be a placebo, but I think it feels a bit nicer. Good spot!

I'm finding it hard to say which I like better, but I would bet a decent amount of money that it is not a placebo.

...ie It does change something. There are not many variables in this game that have no effect. [except the Brake Deadzone]

Chris12345
19-10-2015, 23:16
I only just switched to input mode 2, difference is night and day!

Much better. Set steering sensitivity @ 50% and it's the best it's ever felt

bporion
20-10-2015, 00:29
Tried it whit the V2 no difference .

Mahjik
20-10-2015, 01:43
With most wheels, does affect the FFB for those wheel owners but it's not intended to. The intent is only for non-wheel controllers. I wouldn't say the differences are massive, but there are certain nuances which people may prefer. I'm not sure if SMS is going to make a change in this space or not given it would be pretty low on the priority list (and some people may actually like what it's currently providing).

poirqc
20-10-2015, 02:38
Tried 1,2 and 3 tonight with my usual FFB recipe.

I can't really explain how or what's the difference between them. It's subtle, but there nonetheless.

The thing that stood out with 2 was this.

On the RuF GT3, it was about the same as 3
For the RuF CTR, catching slides was alot easier and i think it was overall better than 3.
On the McLaren F1, the car movement felt wierd, like there was some direction acceleration. 3 was better.


I didn't do extensive testing. Ran some TT on Watkin glen short, for about 45 mins maybe.

Cheers!

redruMKO
20-10-2015, 14:25
I tried a bunch of cars with mode2 yesterday. All pretty good - nothing weird, [and i agree hard to pinpoint the difference] except...

The 125 Kart, becomes a training aid for brain surgeons. SO SO hard to keep in a straight line... but it is possible, just.

Thanks a lot for the info Mahjik, guess I'm back to the usual mode3.

balderz002
20-10-2015, 14:27
I dunno if it made a difference to me because the game treats my Thrustmaster 458 Italia (NOT the Tx, the cheapo one) like a controller, rather than a wheel.

Strydervip
20-10-2015, 17:53
I tried it!! I like it!! Thrustmaster tx with pro pedals, shifter and leather wheel! I tried multiple cars that I like to drive on multiple tracks. Would run one lap with mode 2 then back out and run one lap mode 3! There was a big difference in the way I could bring the car back under control after it had broke loose in the rear end!

ex_
20-10-2015, 18:02
...bring the car back under control after it had broke loose in the rear end!

damn... I took too long reading this, and now my back end has broken loose too. Should I use Commode 2 or Commode 3? :D

balderz002
20-10-2015, 20:34
Number two all day. I've done my fair share of number two's, however, I've never done a number three so cant lend advice in this situation!

inthebagbud
20-10-2015, 20:44
This is just beyond me how can settings that from day one have been put down as controller only now be found by fans to affect the wheel !

bporion
20-10-2015, 21:14
This is just beyond me how can settings that from day one have been put down as controller only now be found by fans to affect the wheel !
So far they do not affect all wheels , if at all .

inthebagbud
20-10-2015, 21:37
So far they do not affect all wheels , if at all .

But it should not affect any wheel according to the "limited " information we have.

SMS you have to put out to users some instructions to follow or you will have no users as there is way too much guess work going on

SUBGTRACER
20-10-2015, 21:54
Well ,tested it last night on 2 and all I can say with a t500rs it F@#%N great , it feels soooo much better then on 3 .... The wheel does what you ask when you ask it is super intuitive and feels great.

On 3 it feels like there is a slight oscalation happening when you lose traction and hit curbs , not bad just very slight .........Didn't really realise until I went to 2.

With 2 and can correct the car a lot better with confidence when lose of traction occurs , I can run on the cars grip limits with much more confidents that I can make a fast corner without turning the car around ...........it feels great to me .

DO not change it please

Please fix that I have to turn the soft dampening off every time I play the game ( that sux)

Mahjik
21-10-2015, 00:15
This is just beyond me how can settings that from day one have been put down as controller only now be found by fans to affect the wheel !

There is no conspiracy here... Given it was only intended for controllers, the WMD members (as well as most retain owners until now) never tried it. Now some folks have found out that it does inadvertently affect wheels as well. It happens all the time with software..

bporion
21-10-2015, 00:26
Well ,tested it last night on 2 and all I can say with a t500rs it F@#%N great , it feels soooo much better then on 3 .... The wheel does what you ask when you ask it is super intuitive and feels great.

On 3 it feels like there is a slight oscalation happening when you lose traction and hit curbs , not bad just very slight .........Didn't really realise until I went to 2.

With 2 and can correct the car a lot better with confidence when lose of traction occurs , I can run on the cars grip limits with much more confidents that I can make a fast corner without turning the car around ...........it feels great to me .

DO not change it please

Please fix that I have to turn the soft dampening off every time I play the game ( that sux)
If it makes the car easier to drive well that's not what I would want , this is a SIM right ! Maybe this makes it easier for people whit game pads and I guess if you have a mid range wheel it gets affected by putting it on level 2 .

SUBGTRACER
21-10-2015, 00:34
If it makes the car easier to drive well that's not what I would want , this is a SIM right ! Maybe this makes it easier for people whit game pads and I guess if you have a mid range wheel it gets affected by putting it on level 2 .

I'm trying to not be a wank here but it makes it more realistic , I have had the good opportunity to drive a v8 supercar at Willowbank ,Ipswich qld a couple of times and believe me with 2 it is a lot closer to the real thing than with 3 for me atleast with t500.

Race cars are not hard to drive they have super high grip levels like you wouldn't believe but they are hard to do superfast laps consistently all day long.

LVracerGT
21-10-2015, 01:21
I just switched to mode 2 after driving in mode 3 for the last few months after getting my ffb dialed in where I liked it. Mode 2 feels much better, like there's more communication of what's going on with under steer vs over steer and feels like there's more road detail over bumps and kerbs. I can actually crank up the overall ffb strength now and my wheel doesn't feel like it's being over worked. Was able to make a couple slight adjustments to my global settings and get it feeling better than it ever has.

T300 with G27 pedals here.

bporion
21-10-2015, 01:22
I'm trying to not be a wank here but it makes it more realistic , I have had the good opportunity to drive a v8 supercar at Willowbank ,Ipswich qld a couple of times and believe me with 2 it is a lot closer to the real thing than with 3 for me atleast with t500.

Race cars are not hard to drive they have super high grip levels like you wouldn't believe but they are hard to do superfast laps consistently all day long.

Is a car in a arcade racing game easier to drive , yes in a SIM its harder to drive . Race cars are not hard to drive ok , sure , but were you in a race whit other drivers racing against you ? If not maybe you were not pushing the car to the limit whitch makes a race car in a race hard to drive against other opponents . In my humble opinion off course :-)

SUBGTRACER
21-10-2015, 01:33
Yes there was 16 other cars on tack racing at the time and we were pushing hard ....... I see your point bud and each to there own but putting it on 2 isn't all of a sudden turning it into a arcade game with no physical attributes.

bporion
21-10-2015, 01:37
Yes there was 16 other cars on tack racing at the time and we were pushing hard ....... I see your point bud and each to there own but putting it on 2 isn't all of a sudden turning it into a arcade game with no physical attributes.
You lucky bast$%^ ! Well I will give it another try on 2 , but I would like to hear from another V1 or V2 user .

SUBGTRACER
21-10-2015, 01:42
here is a bad analogy :) its like I was driving my Monaro with 3 .....its pretty sloppy 1971 model after all

220583

to driving this :) on 2

220584 oops wrong picture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean this

220585

bporion
21-10-2015, 01:51
lol , ya , I'm pretty sure that middle one would be driving you !!

SUBGTRACER
21-10-2015, 02:02
lol , ya , I'm pretty sure that middle one would be driving you !!


hehehe As long as she's driving me with no soft dampening I'm happy .

diesel97
21-10-2015, 02:05
There is no conspiracy here... Given it was only intended for controllers, the WMD members (as well as most retain owners until now) never tried it. Now some folks have found out that it does inadvertently affect wheels as well. It happens all the time with software..

I don't think anybody called it a "conspiracy" but if the people that made the game and wrote the code have no idea what to name their options then how are we supposed to know how to use it.

6 months later and the FFB is still the biggest unknown , and i have never seen a "lead ,head , FFB guru from SMS chime in once

SUBGTRACER
21-10-2015, 02:11
C'mon bring him forward and let the Stoning begin :)

220587

Mahjik
21-10-2015, 02:25
I don't think anybody called it a "conspiracy" but if the people that made the game and wrote the code have no idea what to name their options then how are we supposed to know how to use it.

Did you not understand my post? You aren't suppose to use it for wheel users. It's not intended to have any effect at all for wheel users. They aren't going to document something that isn't supposed to work the way it currently is working.


6 months later and the FFB is still the biggest unknown , and i have never seen a "lead ,head , FFB guru from SMS chime in once

And you likely won't, so I would recommend getting over it.

gotdirt410sprintcar
21-10-2015, 06:10
I don't think anybody called it a "conspiracy" but if the people that made the game and wrote the code have no idea what to name their options then how are we supposed to know how to use it.

6 months later and the FFB is still the biggest unknown , and i have never seen a "lead ,head , FFB guru from SMS chime in once FFB guru would be jack spade and many others, but I do agree with you like copy what the settings do in Detail. Then post for all of us to read NEVER LOL

GrimeyDog
21-10-2015, 10:47
Did you not understand my post? You aren't suppose to use it for wheel users. It's not intended to have any effect at all for wheel users. They aren't going to document something that isn't supposed to work the way it currently is working.



And you likely won't, so I would recommend getting over it.

LMAO!!! Im in Tears Reading the Shenanagins!!!

GrimeyDog
21-10-2015, 10:53
Im going to Test 2 out and post what i find Later...

ThunderKnob
21-10-2015, 11:13
It's so much better set to mode 2. Been running it for a couple of days now. Now I have control over every car. Much more realistic.

Haiden
21-10-2015, 11:34
Tried setting #2 last night on a T300. There was definitely a difference in the feel of the wheel, but I can't say that I liked it. It felt a bit smoother in some ways, but at the same time, it felt like something was missing from the feedback spectrum--couldn't quite put my finger on what it was. I'm definitely sticking with #3.

Fong74
21-10-2015, 11:53
PS4 user here:

What its supposed for is irrelevant imo. We have already found out that there is a difference is FFB/car feel if you change Advanced Settings to either ON or OFF. And those are also supposed to be for controllers only... That is already confirmed by ppl who really do cope with pCars FFB a lot on consoles.

Here is the initial post on this:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21978-PS4-Fanatec-hardware-discussion-thread&p=1120008&viewfull=1#post1120008


Ill try 2 tonight for sure and report back!

Roger Prynne
21-10-2015, 12:35
Race cars are not hard to drive they have super high grip levels like you wouldn't believe but they are hard to do superfast laps consistently all day long.

A lot of people don't understand this.... but it's true.

redruMKO
21-10-2015, 13:02
It's so much better set to mode 2. Been running it for a couple of days now. Now I have control over every car. Much more realistic.

Are you sure? I liked "2" except it was super-weird on the 125 Kart. Nothing I did with the rest of the variables made it better.

ThunderKnob
21-10-2015, 13:56
Are you sure? I liked "2" except it was super-weird on the 125 Kart. Nothing I did with the rest of the variables made it better.

It's related to me being a sim racer for years and finding that the feel is more true to life. The wheel feels like a real car should respond on mode 2. When I want to jump straight to the correct steering angle, its now responding correctly. With the other modes it felt like the steering wasn't quite linear or was delayed in moving like it was being filtered.

Hope the devs can give us a description of what these are actually doing.

redruMKO
21-10-2015, 15:35
It's related to me being a sim racer for years and finding that the feel is more true to life. The wheel feels like a real car should respond on mode 2. When I want to jump straight to the correct steering angle, its now responding correctly. With the other modes it felt like the steering wasn't quite linear or was delayed in moving like it was being filtered.

Hope the devs can give us a description of what these are actually doing.

Wait, I'm totally on board with what you said, but you quoted me and didn't actually address my quote?

It felt more 'direct' to me too, on some cars more than others. But I'm worried about it because of how unfixably weird it made the 125 kart feel. Have you driven the kart in mode2?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
21-10-2015, 16:24
Is a car in a arcade racing game easier to drive , yes in a SIM its harder to drive .This has traditionally always been the main thing that real life racers don't like in sims: They're too difficult to drive, too unforgiving on the edge, too low grip levels. And many semi-sims (like Forza and GT) have been accused of that as well. Some people in the sim community have called GTR2 "too easy" in the past, yet Henrik Roos, one of the founders of SimBin, and an actual FIA GT driver from that period, said they weren't easy enough to drive. Ian Bell (another SimBin co-founder for those who didn't know that bit) mentioned this on No-Grip some years ago, paraphrasing Henrik:


I recall Henrik Roos (my co head at SimBin, not a bad word at all, I founded it after all :)) constantly telling me that when he drove the real FIA GT cars they were very comfortable on and over the limit - in a way that we didn't capture with GTR and even with GTR2. He told me GTR2 was too unforgiving and that these cars can be drifted comfortably. He said it's not the fastest way around the track and it kills the tyres but that's how they handle. We failed to deliver that ease on the limit partly due to limitations (and what we later found to be a bug) in the ISI tyre physics code that caused the grip to 'fall off a cliff' at the limits.Of course doing superlatively fast times and doing them consistently is difficult, you have to be constantly on the edge for that, but on a general level the cars are made to be as easy to drive as quickly as possible, there's very little benefit in making a race car that's purposefully difficult to drive. =)

havocc
21-10-2015, 16:41
I only just switched to input mode 2, difference is night and day!

Much better. Set steering sensitivity @ 50% and it's the best it's ever felt
Gamepad?

vallist
21-10-2015, 18:35
CSW V2 - no difference

havocc
21-10-2015, 19:23
Of course doing superlatively fast times and doing them consistently is difficult, you have to be constantly on the edge for that, but on a general level the cars are made to be as easy to drive as quickly as possible, there's very little benefit in making a race car that's purposefully difficult to drive. =)

Kudos to drivers doing Nurburgring 24h, i'm half dead after one lap :D

Exoil
21-10-2015, 19:48
Tried setting #2 last night on a T300. There was definitely a difference in the feel of the wheel, but I can't say that I liked it. It felt a bit smoother in some ways, but at the same time, it felt like something was missing from the feedback spectrum--couldn't quite put my finger on what it was. I'm definitely sticking with #3.

Well, on my T300rs with JS classic ffb I can definitely say that most of the small nuances of the ffb while braking, understeering and going off the track into the grass is gone when I'm playing with Type2.

I also didn't feel enough difference in responsiveness to feel inclined to continue playing with Type2 instead of Type when I lose most of the nuances in the ffb.

Roger Prynne
21-10-2015, 20:20
there's very little benefit in making a race car that's purposefully difficult to drive. =)
You hit the nail right on the head there.

bporion
21-10-2015, 20:31
CSW V2 - no difference
I knew I wasn't crazy ! Anybody else whit a V1 or V2 feel no difference ?

McKiernan
21-10-2015, 20:36
CSW V2 - no difference

Same set up, don't feel any difference either. I guess it's wheel specific.

bporion
21-10-2015, 20:50
Maybe it only works on cheap wheels ! :p :glee:

balderz002
21-10-2015, 21:01
My sub-70 wheel does me fine, maybe these tweaks to mode 2 make up for my lack of ffb?

For the price of a fanatec setup, I would rather buy a real car and track it!

Schnizz58
21-10-2015, 21:03
Maybe it only works on cheap wheels ! :p :glee:
Shots fired!

nhitrac
21-10-2015, 21:12
I have a "cheap" wheel. It does diddly squat for me

Liquid7394
21-10-2015, 21:26
I haven't noticed any significant difference. In fact I haven't noticed any difference.

stangnutlx
21-10-2015, 21:29
feels smoother to me I'm on a cheap G25

SUBGTRACER
21-10-2015, 21:40
My cheap t500 feels better :)

Fanapryde
21-10-2015, 21:44
For the price of a fanatec setup, I would rather buy a real car and track it!
No difference on my V2.
BTW: I bought a full Fanatec setup, which is approximately the same price as the cost for two track days (not counting the price of the car itself)

balderz002
21-10-2015, 21:49
Well, if I were starting from scratch..... Wheel, pedals, shifter, triple screen setup, 3 screens, seat/stand, 5.1 system, butt kicker.......... Could all add up.

There is a Vauxhall Vectra 2.5 V6 GSi on gumtree for 850. Imagine the fun you could have on track with that. Bit more of a sim experience than sitting in your living room.

bporion
21-10-2015, 22:28
Humm , anybody want to by a V2 ill give you a great deal I just need enough money for a cheap wheel to finally get a great driving feel in Pcars .

Mahjik
21-10-2015, 23:26
CSW V2 - no difference

One of the guys testing noticed a difference with his Fanatec GT3 RS v1. His comments were around the deadzone handling, so those who have already messed with deadzone removal may or may not notice much of a change. In my G25, there was a difference (not in a good way IMO).

Fanapryde
22-10-2015, 04:33
Well, if I were starting from scratch..... Wheel, pedals, shifter, triple screen setup, 3 screens, seat/stand, 5.1 system, butt kicker.......... Could all add up.

There is a Vauxhall Vectra 2.5 V6 GSi on gumtree for 850. Imagine the fun you could have on track with that. Bit more of a sim experience than sitting in your living room.
I don't have to imagine, I know, done that (still do on occasion).:o
Just saying: the cost of buying a track car is not a big point, keeping it running, that's where the problem is.
I use my sim every day for a couple of hours, no further cost involved...

Fong74
22-10-2015, 07:03
There is a difference for sure between 2 and 3 with a CSW V2. 2 makes the wheel lighter and road effects are more quiet. 2 feels a bit more precise while cornering I would say. A result of the lighter wheel imo.

I like 3 (default) better nevertheless. Wheel feels more alive with that.

Pyromaniak666
22-10-2015, 07:17
Humm , anybody want to by a V2 ill give you a great deal I just need enough money for a cheap wheel to finally get a great driving feel in Pcars .

The Fanatec V2 not giving you a great driving feel?
or just being sarcastic?
Also how much, although i am from South Africa

Roger Prynne
22-10-2015, 10:44
Makes no difference to me either (1,2 or 3)

transfix
22-10-2015, 11:09
V2 Base. Spent hours messing with modes 1,2,3 = no difference. As stated, this is intended for mature audiences. Actually controllers.

Fong74
22-10-2015, 11:29
May be true for PC/XBox. On PS4 there is a difference for sure between 2 and 3. I did not test 1 tbh, but will give a try tonight.

Broter
22-10-2015, 11:32
sorry for my dumbness, but what is "steering input mode" 2 and where can i change it?????

Roger Prynne
22-10-2015, 12:12
220683

Broter
22-10-2015, 12:18
Thanks! was searching the menues back and forth but didn't scroll down that one :o

Krus Control
22-10-2015, 12:58
OK I gave this a try. This is a strange one. I'm not sure what the underlying source of these effects are. I use a TX. The delivery of the forces seems to be more linear but road feel suffers. As my road feel is already a bit low in my FFB this pushes it too far for me. Also the inversion of forces when oversteering is more instant and more vivid. This is great for people who have problems applying opposite lock. The overall gain had to be decreased by 20% or I was experiencing clipping. I do have a big problem with these settings in the scheme of my settings though. The front wheels should feel light in any RWD car ESPECIALLY DURING UNDERSTEER. I could not achieve this with mode 2. I don't know what exactly this change does but the net effect is different FFB delivery. I wouldn't recommend this setting. Here is a link to my universal, all car FFB settings if you want to see what I'm using.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?40260-Great-Universal-FFB-Settings-All-Cars-Wheels

Liquid7394
22-10-2015, 13:06
May be true for PC/XBox. On PS4 there is a difference for sure between 2 and 3. I did not test 1 tbh, but will give a try tonight.
I'm on PS4 and there is no difference whatsoever. I was using mode 3 before, switched to mode 2 and there isn't a difference.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
22-10-2015, 13:25
Would be great if someone could bother to do a blind test. Ask a friend to help, go outside the room while he changes the settings, then drive for example 5 laps, write down the guesses and at the end see if it actually made a difference.

redruMKO
22-10-2015, 13:29
I'm on PS4 and there is a difference on mine.

Roger Prynne
22-10-2015, 13:30
Yeah there are so many conflicting answers here that it's hard to see what's going on, with different wheels/platforms/opinions etc.

Krus Control
22-10-2015, 13:33
It seems to be a strange and unintentional effect. I could see this having different effects on even two users with the same wheel.

Krus Control
22-10-2015, 13:37
Also FFB is complicated. Being able to notice any difference with any kind of certainty with FFB is absurdly difficult and can be very misleading. Furthermore, articulating this information in a useful manner is an almost futile pursuit. I know my FFB, but it's not something I could explain to somebody. You need to learn it for yourself. So everybody knows it differently; in their own way. It's friggin complicated. And then something weird like this pops up and I just can't wrap my mind around it.

Roger Prynne
22-10-2015, 13:42
I've asked the Devs for some clarification on this matter, so I hope we get a response SMSoon.

havocc
22-10-2015, 13:52
They could be just 3 default presets

Bealdor
22-10-2015, 13:54
They could be just 3 default presets

No, they're modes. They're not changing anything on the settings the player can adjust.

Krus Control
22-10-2015, 13:54
They could be just 3 default presets

I thought that too. It doesn't change any settings. It seems to somehow interpret FFB as a whole differently with the same settings.

ARNAGEist
22-10-2015, 14:48
Don't want to say too soon my G27 steering issue is fixed after changing mode from 3 to 2 but I've had 2 day's and 2 PC re-starts and I haven't had my steering going crazily sensitive since :yes:

Haiden
22-10-2015, 16:34
OK I gave this a try. This is a strange one. I'm not sure what the underlying source of these effects are. I use a TX. The delivery of the forces seems to be more linear but road feel suffers. As my road feel is already a bit low in my FFB this pushes it too far for me. Also the inversion of forces when oversteering is more instant and more vivid. This is great for people who have problems applying opposite lock. The overall gain had to be decreased by 20% or I was experiencing clipping. I do have a big problem with these settings in the scheme of my settings though. The front wheels should feel light in any RWD car ESPECIALLY DURING UNDERSTEER. I could not achieve this with mode 2. I don't know what exactly this change does but the net effect is different FFB delivery. I wouldn't recommend this setting. Here is a link to my universal, all car FFB settings if you want to see what I'm using.

This was my experience, as well. The first time I tried the settings, I knew something was missing, but didn't have enough time to figure it out. Last night, I switched to setting #2 first before I started my first practice session, and then drove for about an hour before switching back to setting #3. I picked two tracks to test with both settings, one that I knew extremely well, and one that I'm not familiar with. The latter was to make sure that my lap times were truly a reflection of my response to the feedback vs. me just hitting pre-established braking points and gearing from memory. Turns out, that was the case (the memory thing). Switching back to setting #3, I immediately realized there had been a lack of road feel/detail with setting #2. Curbs, grass, and undulations in the surface were often so weak I couldn't feel them at all in some places. My lap times in both cases (favorite track vs. new track) were better with setting #3, especially on the track I was less familiar with. I also noticed that the brakes seemed way more sensitive on setting #2, requiring less pressure to get the telemetry meter to the full 100%. And the throttle seemed more precise.

While I don't like the FFB with setting #2, due to the lack of detail, I did like the change in the brake and throttle, both felt more precise and I was able to make better use of them during cornering. Unfortunately, that gain doesn't outweigh the loss of detail or change the fact that my lap times were better with #3.

FYI: I test this using a T300.

Lawndarts
22-10-2015, 17:31
10 pages... Mods have no clue, SMS likely won't explain because it's "fudge" for controllers and the need for buffering to counter exaggerated stick motions... But! Magicly it works better on lower end wheels?! ... I've certainly got a few reasonable theories here but... I have nothing really constructive to say... Every investigative thread such as this goes all over the place, a bunch of people get banned for being frustrated (why no one is left but perhaps Jack?), before a lengthy "explanation" is given that makes anyone who doesn't know any better feel smart, and the rest left hanging...

svenvangent
22-10-2015, 18:51
T300 RS here ,tried in mod 2 and feel no difference .

ex_
22-10-2015, 18:57
If it makes the car easier to drive well that's not what I would want , this is a SIM right ! Maybe this makes it easier for people whit game pads and I guess if you have a mid range wheel it gets affected by putting it on level 2 .

he was referring to #2 being easier to drive compared to #3 I believe, which would support what you're saying. If the #2 setting is actually more accurate for a wheel, it would be more "sim" and also simultaneously be easier, simply for the fact that it does what you'd expect it to do and also feels more real. Since we have all driven real cars, it might take some of the disbelief away and help you drive more accurately...

Zeke Bewlay
22-10-2015, 20:17
Fanatic GT3 wheel, no discernible difference

bporion
22-10-2015, 20:26
The Fanatec V2 not giving you a great driving feel?
or just being sarcastic?
Also how much, although i am from South Africa
just being sarcastic my friend , I love my V2 !

bporion
22-10-2015, 20:30
10 pages... Mods have no clue, SMS likely won't explain because it's "fudge" for controllers and the need for buffering to counter exaggerated stick motions... But! Magicly it works better on lower end wheels?! ... I've certainly got a few reasonable theories here but... I have nothing really constructive to say... Every investigative thread such as this goes all over the place, a bunch of people get banned for being frustrated (why no one is left but perhaps Jack?), before a lengthy "explanation" is given that makes anyone who doesn't know any better feel smart, and the rest left hanging...

nobody is frustrated here my friend .

Roger Prynne
22-10-2015, 20:30
Well officially it is a bug and being investigated..... so really it shouldn't make any difference what setting you use for wheel users.

TrevorAustin
22-10-2015, 20:33
Made absolutely zero difference to my t500, sometimes I do start the game and the steering/grip is sublimely better than others, I've always assumed that was after a good nights sleep and no Vodka or Sambuca. But this steering setting made zero difference to me.

TrevorAustin
22-10-2015, 20:35
10 pages... Mods have no clue, SMS likely won't explain because it's "fudge" for controllers and the need for buffering to counter exaggerated stick motions... But! Magicly it works better on lower end wheels?! ... I've certainly got a few reasonable theories here but... I have nothing really constructive to say... Every investigative thread such as this goes all over the place, a bunch of people get banned for being frustrated (why no one is left but perhaps Jack?), before a lengthy "explanation" is given that makes anyone who doesn't know any better feel smart, and the rest left hanging...

We certainly aren't short of conspiracy theorists on this site:) it's more like alt than a who killed Lady Di thread, lol.

bporion
22-10-2015, 20:39
Placebo it is . Thanks . Ok so who's winning the Rugby World Cup I got Australia ! :-)

Krus Control
22-10-2015, 21:30
It could be that this arose in the TX because it is, at it's core, an Xbox controller. It's still so very strange though.

redruMKO
22-10-2015, 21:33
Placebo it is . Thanks . Ok so who's winning the Rugby World Cup I got Australia ! :-)

Where did you get that conclusion from? Are we reading the same thread?

Krus Control
22-10-2015, 21:36
Hes talking about his Fanatec CSW V2. Seems this has no effect on that wheel.

TrevorAustin
22-10-2015, 21:47
Hes talking about his Fanatec CSW V2. Seems this has no effect on that wheel.

or my t500

bporion
22-10-2015, 22:42
Well officially it is a bug and being investigated..... so really it shouldn't make any difference what setting you use for wheel users.

" so really it shouldn't make any difference what setting you use for wheel users "

chig88
22-10-2015, 23:03
Tried it with my T300 driving the Audi A1. Couldn't tell the difference.

Roger Prynne
22-10-2015, 23:34
" so really it shouldn't make any difference what setting you use for wheel users "

That's what I said... :friendly_wink:

It shouldn't but does for some wheels, so is a bug.

bporion
22-10-2015, 23:36
Where did you get that conclusion from? Are we reading the same thread?
Was responding to this . :-)

Itothans
23-10-2015, 00:20
Tried it with T300 GTE made it worse, FFB was significantly weaker and not as detailed. Used with Jack Spades files.

Haiden
23-10-2015, 00:47
The difference between the two might also depend on the user's other global settings, as well. I set my global FFB settings back to default before comparing the two controller settings. When I first tried #2 with my custom global settings, I didn't notice much of a difference. My custom settings produce a lighter FFB than the game defaults, though, which might be why.

bporion
23-10-2015, 01:00
Well 12 pages later I guess its clear we would all like to find the magic formula to have the best FFB for our wheels that we can but I don't think that this is it but I like that we all kept trying to make the game better !

dbo35
23-10-2015, 01:44
If it makes the car easier to drive well that's not what I would want , this is a SIM right ! Maybe this makes it easier for people whit game pads and I guess if you have a mid range wheel it gets affected by putting it on level 2 .

Is a car in a arcade racing game easier to drive , yes in a SIM its harder to drive . Race cars are not hard to drive ok , sure , but were you in a race whit other drivers racing against you ? If not maybe you were not pushing the car to the limit whitch makes a race car in a race hard to drive against other opponents . In my humble opinion off course :-)

seriously?

...

maybe - just maybe, when the digital car feels more like you are driving an actual car through your input device, you have an easier time driving that digital car?

SUBGTRACER
23-10-2015, 01:47
seriously?

...

maybe - just maybe, when the digital car feels more like you are driving an actual car through your input device, you have an easier time driving that digital car?

Makes sense to me :)

bporion
23-10-2015, 01:55
seriously?

...

maybe - just maybe, when the digital car feels more like you are driving an actual car through your input device, you have an easier time driving that digital car?

I'm glad you get it now ! :encouragement:

SUBGTRACER
23-10-2015, 01:57
I'm glad you get it now ! :encouragement:

rofl ! :applouse:

Haiden
23-10-2015, 02:05
The thing is--at least for me--I don't find the cars that difficult to drive on setting #3. In fact, when tuning a car, I usually don't change the default settings (mechanical that is--for FFB I use Jack Spade's settings), until I've learned or gotten reacquainted with the track.

gotdirt410sprintcar
23-10-2015, 02:10
I think it might change degree of rotation on some wheels that one guy said un drivable in the karts in mode 2 but mode3 it would be fine . Probably why there are three settings that is for controllers just my guess

HEF51
23-10-2015, 02:13
On X1 with the TX. There is a difference but I cant put my finger on it. 2 seems a lot more twitchy to me. And actually was faster with 3. No idea and I'm sure SMS doesn't have one either.

redruMKO
23-10-2015, 04:39
The difference between the two might also depend on the user's other global settings, as well. I set my global FFB settings back to default before comparing the two controller settings. When I first tried #2 with my custom global settings, I didn't notice much of a difference. My custom settings produce a lighter FFB than the game defaults, though, which might be why.

Aye. My suspicion is that it is moving the point that the DRR starts / works-over, so for people with lovely wheels and DRR at zero, there'd be no problem. Though I would guess the linearity / sensitivity might still be a little different like it seems on lesser wheels.

And sorry to get involved in bickering back there, but I didn't want this thread being mistaken for being resolved and closed as 'Does Nothing', which many people have said is not true.

dbo35
23-10-2015, 05:07
I just tested mode # 2 for the first time -

I'm using a G27 with jack's latest standard FFB and the setting from the 'another G27 FFB setup thread'(or whatever its called)

driving with mode #2 seems like it has a soft steering lock or something that you can't feel in the wheel. The only way that I can describe it really is -

it feels like the more that I turn the wheel, the less the car actually turns in the game. It isn't a hard stop, but gets less sensitive the more the wheel is turned.

I also noticed that my throttle sounded as if there was some significant traction control going on. I stopped, cut my wheel completely right in the middle of a track, gave full throttle and the back end slipped for a millisecond and then the car went straight 90* into the wall.

I then tried on a high speed turn at spa lifting the gas, turning the wheel all the way right, down shift + gas and it felt like the game was literally doing its best to keep my car from going into the wall.

basically, there is definitely a difference. I'm guessing that there is some specific logic in the code that makes the gamepad extreme come way earlier than the wheel extreme and thats what we're seeing - but who knows. It does make sense... its a heck of a lot less precise to move an entire steering range over an inch of thumb movement than turning a wheel 450* plus in either direction.

chig88
23-10-2015, 09:07
No idea and I'm sure SMS doesn't have one either.

Unfortunately I'd have to agree with you there. The FFB in this game is like a plate of spaghetti.

N0body Of The Goat
23-10-2015, 10:03
When I had a quick play with modes 1 and 2 a month or so back one evening, it felt like the different modes changed how linear the steering was around the neutral position.

From memory, one of those alternative, non-default modes made the steering incredible sensitive and prone to oversteering.

Jaroslav Turna
23-10-2015, 10:44
Do you guys change the deadzone/sensitivity/speed sensitivity back to your previous values after changing the mode? If not, then there is no surprise it feels different.

poirqc
23-10-2015, 10:59
Do you guys change the deadzone/sensitivity/speed sensitivity back to your previous values after changing the mode? If not, then there is no surprise it feels different.

I just checked, and at least for me, on the PC, the only thing i changed was the controller input mode. I left 1 aside soon and shuffled between 2 and 3 after.

Jaroslav Turna
23-10-2015, 11:04
I just checked, and at least for me, on the PC, the only thing i changed was the controller input mode. I left 1 aside soon and shuffled between 2 and 3 after.

but when you are changing modes, the game changes deadzone/sensitivity etc. to default values respective to each mode.

poirqc
23-10-2015, 11:15
but when you are changing modes, the game changes deadzone/sensitivity etc. to default values respective to each mode.

Well, to be more precise, i'm not seeing any change in the UI when i move from 3 to 2. FFB calibration stay the same, inputs deadzones and sensitivity also stays the same, game FFB also.

I'm not sure i get your train of thoughts?

Jaroslav Turna
23-10-2015, 12:57
I did not check it myself with a wheel .. if you are using gamepad, the default values change with changing the modes. If it does not when using wheel, it suggests, that it works as should and DOES NOT affect steeringwheel input (btw. when I tried switching soft steering dampening as discussed in different thread, I felt no difference.. so still suspecting lot of you feel placebo ... but as posted before - it is investigated by QA so we'll see)

Mahjik
23-10-2015, 13:12
It's going to depend on what "tweakers" people are using, especially on the PC. One the PC, users can override just about everything and likely those who feel no difference, are using tweakers which override the values being adjusted between the modes.

chig88
23-10-2015, 13:15
but when you are changing modes, the game changes deadzone/sensitivity etc. to default values respective to each mode.

Does this mean that when I tried mode 2 just before I turned the game off last night it will have changed the steering sensitivity value etc?

I really bloody hope not because I can't remember what they were set at :(.

redruMKO
23-10-2015, 13:28
I did not check it myself with a wheel .. if you are using gamepad, the default values change with changing the modes. If it does not when using wheel, it suggests, that it works as should and DOES NOT affect steeringwheel input (btw. when I tried switching soft steering dampening as discussed in different thread, I felt no difference.. so still suspecting lot of you feel placebo ... but as posted before - it is investigated by QA so we'll see)

Can people stop doing this please. It DOES affect [at least some] peoples wheels.

Why would you lie like that, what are you trying to say?

Mahjik
23-10-2015, 13:35
Guys, not everyone at SMS is aware of everything going on. i.e. vehicle artists may not be aware of what's going on in QA. A few members here were asked to do some blind testing for SMS on this a few weeks back. As I already stated, it does affect (most) wheel owners and it shouldn't. There are variations which users may not notice a difference and some users just may not be sensitive enough to notice a difference. SMS has a bug logged for it as it's not intended to affect wheel users. Whether or not SMS actually makes a change to disable any effects of this setting for wheel users is unknown as obviously it's something that is very low priority.

Haiden
23-10-2015, 13:39
I did not check it myself with a wheel .. if you are using gamepad, the default values change with changing the modes. If it does not when using wheel, it suggests, that it works as should and DOES NOT affect steeringwheel input (btw. when I tried switching soft steering dampening as discussed in different thread, I felt no difference.. so still suspecting lot of you feel placebo ... but as posted before - it is investigated by QA so we'll see)


Can people stop doing this please. It DOES affect [at least some] peoples wheels.

Why would you lie like that, what are you trying to say?

Yeah...I don't understand why you say that either. There are too many tester here feeling a difference to call it a placebo effect and say it does nothing. The second time I tested the settings I actually did set everything back to default before comparing #2 and #3, and there was definitely a difference. I the first time I tested them, I only changed the setting, and left my custom tweaks as-is, and I didn't feel much of a difference.

chig88
23-10-2015, 13:43
Yeah...I don't understand why you say that either. There are too many tester here feeling a difference to call it a placebo effect and say it does nothing. The second time I tested the settings I actually did set everything back to default before comparing #2 and #3, and there was definitely a difference. I the first time I tested them, I only changed the setting, and left my custom tweaks as-is, and I didn't feel much of a difference.

That must be why I couldn't tell the difference - I left my own settings in & just changed the controller input number.

Can anyone who's been fiddling with this answer my question in post 135?

Raven403
23-10-2015, 13:49
This thread is the perfect example of why Too Many Options isnt a good thing

chig88
23-10-2015, 13:51
This thread is the perfect example of why Too Many Options isnt a good thing

Yup, like I said earlier - plate of spaghetti.

And not enough experts on untangling spaghetti or instructions for the average diner :(.

Jaroslav Turna
23-10-2015, 13:55
Can people stop doing this please. It DOES affect [at least some] peoples wheels.

Why would you lie like that, what are you trying to say?

Where the heck did the part about lying come from?
Did you even read the whole message?

There is absolutely NO difference using my DFGT while switching soft steering dampening on and off.

Btw. I also posted about QA investigating this .. so it is not even about me not knowing what is going on.

Raven403
23-10-2015, 13:57
Yup, like I said earlier - plate of spaghetti.

And not enough experts on untangling spaghetti or instructions for the average diner :(.

The resources available here on the Forum do wonders though, so theres that, but i generally agree, there is an overall Lack of knowledge about the settings and what each of them do, that having so many, was unecessary. But it is what it is. I use mode 3 as i was always under the impression the Modes were for controller only, I use all Default settings on my FFB too, only thing I changed was Damper Saturation (i believe its called) on Xbox up to 24 to match PC defaults, and thats about it. Works for me, ive stopped messing with it now, I dont want to fiddle anymore lol

gotdirt410sprintcar
23-10-2015, 15:37
This thread is the perfect example of why Too Many Options isnt a good thing Sorry but it's sure the hell better than two slid bars that go to ten. And everthing feels same no mater what car your in gt6 is that. real sim is this don't cry about it learn about

Sorry not trying to be a a$$ just tired of seeing things like this if they listened to all the lazy kids out there every racing game would be the same feel you need all these settings to have the best feel. I racing is the same way and that is probably the best sim out there

diesel97
23-10-2015, 15:43
Sorry but it's sure the hell better than two slid bars that go to ten. And everthing feels same no mater what car your in gt6 is that. real sim is this don't cry about it learn about

from one extreme to another there has to be a happy middle. Even the hard core PC sims racers say their are to many options

redruMKO
23-10-2015, 15:47
Where the heck did the part about lying come from?
Did you even read the whole message?

There is absolutely NO difference using my DFGT while switching soft steering dampening on and off.

Btw. I also posted about QA investigating this .. so it is not even about me not knowing what is going on.

Yes I read your post that is why i replied.

Re-read it yourself... it looks like a 'case closed' to me.

And your last line now confuses me more. Are you talking about SSD or Mode2, because I think this is the Mode2 thread.

redruMKO
23-10-2015, 15:50
Well, to be more precise, i'm not seeing any change in the UI when i move from 3 to 2. FFB calibration stay the same, inputs deadzones and sensitivity also stays the same, game FFB also.

Just tested too. On Ps4 with a G29, even if you exit the menu to let it save, and return, Sensitivity and Deadzone values do not change when switching between Mode2 and Mode3.

TrevorAustin
23-10-2015, 15:54
Where the heck did the part about lying come from?
Did you even read the whole message?

There is absolutely NO difference using my DFGT while switching soft steering dampening on and off.

Btw. I also posted about QA investigating this .. so it is not even about me not knowing what is going on.

Don't let it get to you, you are a dev, therefore you must be part of the great conspiracy. How you lot deal with these people for a living I have absolutely no idea.

Interesting what Bealdor said about the tweaker files, I do use them so wouldn't expect to see a change.

Jaroslav Turna
23-10-2015, 16:24
Yes I read your post that is why i replied.

Re-read it yourself... it looks like a 'case closed' to me.

And your last line now confuses me more. Are you talking about SSD or Mode2, because I think this is the Mode2 thread.

Just so you know .. SSD is a part of the mode setup ... Modes change some values that are not exposed in GUI as well as those which are. So yes, I was not changing mode, just part of it ... which does not matter as it is the same code and should not be applied when using wheel.

watchumacallit
23-10-2015, 16:35
I tested it, I tried it and I liked it on mode 2 on my t300.

I don't have default settings and there is definitely a difference. The cars are not necessarily easier to drive but feels more responsive. It goes where you want it to go.

In comparison, it's like driving a car with high profile/ sidewalls tires(less responsive) to a car with low profile/ sidewalls tires(more responsive)

Thanks Thunderknob, good find men! good lookin out!

SUBGTRACER
23-10-2015, 16:38
Where the heck did the part about lying come from?
Did you even read the whole message?

There is absolutely NO difference using my DFGT while switching soft steering dampening on and off.

Btw. I also posted about QA investigating this .. so it is not even about me not knowing what is going on.

Looks like it's wheels specific to me , my t500 feels completely different with damper on/off ..... A lot lighter with off and slow and dampened with on .

Schnizz58
23-10-2015, 17:05
Can people stop doing this please. It DOES affect [at least some] peoples wheels.

Why would you lie like that, what are you trying to say?
Look, I have no dog in this hunt but have been following the thread out of curiosity. But I have to step in and ask a favor of you and anybody reading this. Please, PLEASE be polite to the devs that bother to read and post in this forum. There is no call to accuse them of lying. Many of the devs have been run off of this site by rude behavior so I'm begging you not to scare away those that remain. They are a great resource here but just like anybody else if you treat them badly they'll go away.

Haiden
23-10-2015, 17:52
That must be why I couldn't tell the difference - I left my own settings in & just changed the controller input number.

Can anyone who's been fiddling with this answer my question in post 135?

Not sure, but I think the default value is 50. If yours is set to something else, then you're probably okay. Of course, if it's been changed, you'll probably notice halfway into the first lap. :)


This thread is the perfect example of why Too Many Options isnt a good thing

It would be nice if the controller specific options weren't displayed when you have a wheel connected, just like the FFB screens aren't available when there's no wheel.

redruMKO
23-10-2015, 19:04
Look, I have no dog in this hunt ...

1st part of Jaroslavs post said IN CAPS "does not affect steering wheel"
2nd bit suspects some of us of being deceived by placebos
3rd part says, in past tense "investigated" as if it could be over [though i realise now that is not what he meant]

...and seriously no offence meant... he's obviously a very skilled artist, I like all the art in this game a lot

sorry about using the 'L' word...

Prej
24-10-2015, 12:35
Using a Formula Force EX and Jack Spade's FFB settings, I noticed the following differences changing from input mode 3 to 2:

- The car feels "tighter", reaction is better.
- More stability during heavy braking.
- Softer response from the front suspension.
- More feel to what's happening in the back.
- Accelerating out of a corner seems a little more twitchy, you may want to reduce acceleration lock a little.

Overall, the car seems more confident to drive. You need to get used to the different FFB responses, but it's definitely worth a try. I'm sticking with it.

Keithb23
15-11-2015, 04:20
With regards to the mention of the cars being too 'easy' to drive, there is some truth to that, but not in ways that the player may not realize if they haven't driven and actual race car. My experience is limited to track days with my 350z, so I can't speak personally about it, but I do know several fellows from the track days who are instructors and paid professional drivers themselves. What they say is that the race cars they drive (GT and open wheel) are quite easy to drive at moderate to fast speeds, but there is a dramatic difference in tire/brake behavior with regards to temperature. The professional driver knows how to get the tires/brakes up to optimal temperature quickly and safely. The amateur driver will take much longer to accomplish that task and will likely not get the tires/brakes up to the temperatures needed for optimal performance driving the car at 10/10th's lap after lap, because they lack the skill/stones to actually drive the car at the speeds required to accomplish this.

It is most evident in open-wheel cars and prototype cars that have massive amounts of grip and require very high temperatures to work at their best because of the physical characteristics of the tires and the types of materials used in the brake rotors and pads. Just watch Richard Hammond, formerly from Top Gear, try to drive an F1 car. He simply could not get the car up to the speeds required to heat the tires/brakes properly because he was terrified! He finally had to stop after about three laps, I believe, because the engineers were worried he would damage the car. It was a good thing too, because he was a wreck. Even with all his experience driving a myriad of vehicles and hundreds of hours on a race track, he simply could not get up the nerve to drive the Formula 1 car at the speeds required to make it work aerodynamically and for the brakes/tires to work because he wasn't used to the kinds of forces required to heat the brakes and tires.

With regards to how easy a simulated race car should be to drive, I recall my early experience/frustration with iRacing. I was trying to drive the Pontiac Solstice around the track and kept spinning at low to medium speeds. The problem was there was a disconnect between what my brain was telling me how the car should be driving, and the experience that the software was providing me. My 350Z has a lot more horsepower (and weight, but that's another topic) than the Solstice, but they are both rear wheel drive cars with slightly stiffer suspensions and better tires than the average grocery getter. On my track days I have never come remotely close to spinning the car (yet, lol) because I had a good instructor who taught me how to understand how my car behaves at the limit. I'm sure my experience in the Solstice would be very similar. Gradually building up speed as I learn the track, it's apex's, and nuances. I completely lacked that feeling in iRacing and was very frustrated, feeling as if I needed to drive on eggshells and 'tip-toe' around corners, no matter how many laps and how hot the tires/brakes were. I eventually became used to the 'physics' of the sim and was able to work my way up to an A-Rating, but I never felt comfortable and I kept having that feeling that it 'just wasn't right'.

PCars, Assetto Corsa, RFactor2, and RRE are all much better at delivering that confidence in what the car is going to do and not blind-siding you with a spin just because you had the temerity to step on the gas coming out of a turn. Of the sims mentioned, I feel as if RFactor2 and RRE give me the best feedback through the wheel as to what the car is actually doing. The important thing is that I in all of them I can feel if the car is starting to break away and catch it naturally, without even thinking about it. There isn't that 'disconnected' feeling like I had in iRacing. In all four sims the force feedback feels fairly natural, the differences being in the more subtle way nuances and track surfaces are delivered to the driver. I remember vividly my first experience driving the original Rfactor after being on iRacing for some time. It was a revelation for me. There was this wonderful 'aha' moment where I thought to myself, 'This actually feels right!'.

Getting back to the topic of the FF and different modes, I will do some testing myself, but I have a bit of a feeling as if it might be more placebo than anything, but will be happy to stand corrected at a later date. I think we're pretty lucky to have so many choices in competent racing simulations now, given that the market appeared to be dying a slow and painful death only a short time ago. Although I picked on iRacing a bit here, it should be taken with a grain of salt, because I haven't played it in quite some time now, and I really think iRacing is a benchmark that all the other driving sims should be trying to match or better with regards to the online experience, their on-going support for hardware sim enthusiasts, and their commitment to their vision of how an online racing experience should be delivered.

The idea that a racing simulation should be 'hard' to be real just doesn't fly anymore. Racing sim developers are much more challenged now with their prospective audience, as racing sim enthusiasts are far more knowledgeable now, and have access to so much more data. Developers really can't get away with having an 'easy', 'medium', and 'hard' setting anymore. This is one area in which I think PCars has struck a pretty good balance. People new to a driving sim shouldn't be turned off because they can't get their car around the track, and the progression up the difficulty level has a pretty wide range of options to tailor just the right experience for the driver.

Where PCars really shines is at the level of tun-ability available to the player with regards to the force feedback provided by the wheel. Although confusing to the uninitiated, there is a wealth of knowledge available to help the player get just the right experience for themselves.

So let's get playing with those tuning sliders, folks, and see what kind of magic we can make!