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Doge
20-10-2015, 00:00
There hasnīt been anything added in this class and the current content is underwhelming.

The two fastest cars have serious problems and, even after buying the game thinking these would be the main attraction, I find myself driving plenty of other cars far more often than these.

The Formula B is admittedly FUN to drive. But thatīs where the good news end. The car has far too much downforce and also mechanical grip, it drives on rails after a bit of setup work, and itīs simply too fast and easy. This car, with around 600 hp, can lap Barcelona GP in 1:23s. So you can see what that implies, itīs enough to take pole position by more than 1 second in this yearīs Formula 1 race. All of that with a 200+HP deficit! That tells you more about how much excessive downforce and grip this thing has than anything else I can explain. Itīs nonsense.

Now letīs talk about setup. Its default setup is decent but comes with a steering ratio more appropiate for Sports car... itīs no big deal, but how did this slip through? The medium compound is not only more durable but also faster than the soft. That eliminates any reason for the soft to exist and any strategy choice that could have been taken by the player is negated. The medium is also inmune to overheating, you can use ridiculously low pressures, run the tyre on orange/red temperatures and have more grip than you would with pressures that take the tyre to the green temperature zone on the HUD.

The Formula A has its share of issues too. The default setup is garbage and it turns away people who donīt have the patience or knowledge to undo the mess. The brakes lack A LOT of stopping power, and you can barely lock your tyres even with max pressure and the correct cooling. Of course that impacts the braking distances quite a lot. The DRS rules are not implemented, and the use is free. Thatīs worse than no DRS at all, as everyone gets to use it... all it does now is allowing you to use very high wing levels in a lot of tracks where that shouldnīt pay off.

On the good side, this carīs tyres ARE temperature sensitive. You lose grip after a big slide and you have to keep the tyres on the green zone to go fast, unlike with the FB.

So I wonder if there are fixes or additions coming for the class soon.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
20-10-2015, 00:06
The medium compound is not only more durable but also faster than the soft. That eliminates any reason for the soft to exist and any strategy choice that could have been taken by the player is negated. The medium is also inmune to overheating, you can use ridiculously low pressures, run the tyre on orange/red temperatures and have more grip than you would with pressures that take the tyre to the green temperature zone on the HUD.
The Yiros (mediums) do feel supernaturally grippy, but it doesn't matter for me because of some FFB bug where any brake pressure causes the steering to force itself to center. It's not worth it by any stretch. I didn't realize how much I trail-braked until I found that problem, and I really do prefer to brake before turns when possible. Haven't been able to get my pit crew in career to avoid them either. (I've already posted about this, it's still broken, whatever.)

havocc
20-10-2015, 08:24
Agree for Kers/Drs, iirc F0rmula 1 cars have unlimited access to kers while track sectors where you can use DRS are 2 on every track, here in game it's the opposite, limited kers unlimited drs, also F-A lacks gearbox protection and ppl abuse of engine braking...

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
20-10-2015, 10:16
Agree for Kers/Drs, iirc F0rmula 1 cars have unlimited access to kers while track sectors where you can use DRS are 2 on every track, here in game it's the opposite, limited kers unlimited drs, also F-A lacks gearbox protection and ppl abuse of engine braking...

Ingame, they both operate like they did in 2011 F1 practice and qualifying.

vicdavery
20-10-2015, 10:28
The Formula B is admittedly FUN to drive. But thatīs where the good news end. The car has far too much downforce and also mechanical grip, it drives on rails after a bit of setup work, and itīs simply too fast and easy. This car, with around 600 hp, can lap Barcelona GP in 1:23s. So you can see what that implies, itīs enough to take pole position by more than 1 second in this yearīs Formula 1 race. All of that with a 200+HP deficit! That tells you more about how much excessive downforce and grip this thing has than anything else I can explain. Itīs nonsense.



Err, why then do the leader boards say the current fastest is 1:26.568 for Formula B at Barcelona GP?

Sounds about right to me. And I seem to remember Ben Collins being reasonably happy with the Formula B's performance.

mkstatto
20-10-2015, 11:53
Err, why then do the leader boards say the current fastest is 1:26.568 for Formula B at Barcelona GP?

Sounds about right to me. And I seem to remember Ben Collins being reasonably happy with the Formula B's performance.

Ben Collins being that famous GP2 & Formula One driver, would be great if they could bring somebody on board to look at these two cars.

vicdavery
20-10-2015, 12:01
Ben Collins being that famous GP2 & Formula One driver, would be great if they could bring somebody on board to look at these two cars.
Your sarcasm is noted. ;)
The question is who would you trust more?
Someone who has extensive racing experience, driving many different tracks and cars..
BTCC
V8 Supercars
FIA GT3
Le Mans Series
British GT Championship
ASCAR
FIA Sportscars
French Formula Three
Indy Lights
Int'l Sports Racing
FIA GT Championship
British Formula 3
Formula Vauxhall Junior


or


some random person on a forum, who appears to have not checked his facts (1:23 vs 1:26 fastest lap) and then presented that as the basis for calling a car nonsense.

Bealdor
20-10-2015, 12:03
Ben Collins being that famous GP2 & Formula One driver, would be great if they could bring somebody on board to look at these two cars.

The Formula B does NOT mimic a GP2 car. So comparisons of those two performance wise are futile IMO.

mkstatto
20-10-2015, 12:10
Your sarcasm is noted. ;)
The question is who would you trust more?
Someone who has extensive racing experience, driving many different tracks and cars..
BTCC
V8 Supercars
FIA GT3
Le Mans Series
British GT Championship
ASCAR
FIA Sportscars
French Formula Three
Indy Lights
Int'l Sports Racing
FIA GT Championship
British Formula 3
Formula Vauxhall Junior


or


some random person on a forum, who appears to have not checked his facts (1:23 vs 1:26 fastest lap) and then presented that as the basis for calling a car nonsense.

Genuinely I didn't mean for the post to come off sarcastically, and I do appreciate that he has racing experience. My point was more aimed at the last part of my post bringing in added experience of evaluating the FA & FB cars.


The Formula B does NOT mimic a GP2 car. So comparisons of those two performance wise are futile IMO.

I stand corrected, I was under the assumption it was. I seem to remember a Team VVV preview stating it was, unless it was my imagination. What is its real life counter part?

On a side note, I find wheel retention to be appalling on open wheel series, especially FA & FB.

Bealdor
20-10-2015, 12:24
I stand corrected, I was under the assumption it was. I seem to remember a Team VVV preview stating it was, unless it was my imagination. What is its real life counter part?

AFAIK it's loosely based on a Superleague Formula car (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superleague_Formula).

TrevorAustin
20-10-2015, 12:27
Whether it needs attention or not the only cars I'm really enjoying, and have from day one, are the open wheelers, so they certainly don't 'need urgent attention'

DJBLITZKRIEG
20-10-2015, 12:33
All arguments considered, the cars in this game do seem to be quiet faster in both acceleration and lap times than in real life.

FACT0RY PIL0T
20-10-2015, 12:54
I really dont get where people stick up for the tire model in this game.* Its not at all real in my OP. I just got done at the track helping out this weekend with a gt3 cup car for an 8hr and was laughing thinking how in the game you come out of the pits cold tires and have no grip.

And im watching these guys go flat out first lap out plenty of grip on cold unscrubed tires in cup cars, kias, bmw' etc etc.

And the F-A you get a slide they go to ice, and im like does anyone even follow F1? Look at Kimi in canada this year spins in the hairpin lights the tires up in smoke big time and carrys on like no big deal, and Verstappen big power slide at Brazil and carrys on not on ice flying off the track like you would in the game, which for some reason developers think the F-A should be on ice if it spins, slides or touches a curb etc etc.

The tire model can be built with cords and layers and blah blah blah, but the tires need help in my OP.

Doge
20-10-2015, 13:07
AFAIK it's loosely based on a Superleague Formula car (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superleague_Formula).

Iīve heard that one before, FB look NOTHING like a Superleague car. Itīs literally a GP2 with a winglet in front of the rear wheel.

Modern GP2 have wide FW and narrow and tall RW, and no winglets are allowed on the bodywork. They mimic the current post 2009 F1 package.

http://assets.kompas.com/data/photo/2015/04/17/2240485rio-1704780x390.jpg

Superleague cars had narrower FW, wider and lower RW, and winglets were allowed in the bodywork. They were like pre 2009 F1 cars. They looked NOTHING like a FB.

http://www.ocio.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/atletico-madrid-superleague-0809-1.jpg


Err, why then do the leader boards say the current fastest is 1:26.568 for Formula B at Barcelona GP?
Sounds about right to me. And I seem to remember Ben Collins being reasonably happy with the Formula B's performance.


Your sarcasm is noted. ;)
The question is who would you trust more?
Someone who has extensive racing experience, driving many different tracks and cars..
BTCC
V8 Supercars
FIA GT3
Le Mans Series
British GT Championship
ASCAR
FIA Sportscars
French Formula Three
Indy Lights
Int'l Sports Racing
FIA GT Championship
British Formula 3
Formula Vauxhall Junior


or


some random person on a forum, who appears to have not checked his facts (1:23 vs 1:26 fastest lap) and then presented that as the basis for calling a car nonsense.

(Space reserve to own you in 1 hour)

TrevorAustin
20-10-2015, 13:10
Iīve heard that one before, FB look NOTHING like a Superleague car. Itīs literally a GP2 with a winglet in front of the rear wheel. Modern GP2 have wide FW and narrow and tall RW, and no winglets are allowed on the bodywork.

Superleague cars had narrower FW, wider and lower RW, and winglets were allowed in the bodywork. They looked NOTHING like a FB.





(Space reserve to own you in 1 hour)

How incredibly childish, unless you are about to post your race driver credentials and pedigree your words carry no weight at all. If you do I still want you to be wrong for being such a **** about it.

Bealdor
20-10-2015, 13:25
Iīve heard that one before, FB look NOTHING like a Superleague car. Itīs literally a GP2 with a winglet in front of the rear wheel.

I'm not talking about the look, I'm talking about the specs. V12, >700HP

Btw. this steering wheel should look familiar to you:

220560

QPRLad
20-10-2015, 13:34
Off to get popcorn. brb

Doge
20-10-2015, 13:38
I'm not talking about the look, I'm talking about the specs. V12, >700HP

Btw. this steering wheel should look familiar to you:

220560

The Formula B has around 610 hp mate (game says 615 if I remember correctly). GP2 cars have, surprise surprise... 612.
http://www.gp2series.com/Guide-to/The-car-and-engine/

Doge
20-10-2015, 13:41
BTW, hereīs the Formula B doing 23īs and 24īs in free practice. The engine cooling is on default (70%) too. Iīm sure I can do 22īs on TT with rubbered track and nonsense setup.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET3KviE67Xg

PTG Baby Cow
20-10-2015, 13:43
Off to get popcorn. brb

hahaha i was going to say wheres the popcorn emoji

Bealdor
20-10-2015, 13:51
The Formula B has around 610 hp mate (game says 615 if I remember correctly). GP2 cars have, surprise surprise... 612.
http://www.gp2series.com/Guide-to/The-car-and-engine/

Sorry, my mistake. It had 700HP during development but the power was cut down to increase the distance to the FA. It's still based on a Superleague Formula car though.

Doge
20-10-2015, 13:58
Sorry, my mistake. It had 700HP during development but the power was cut down to increase the distance to the FA. It's still based on a Superleague Formula car though.

Power output > GP2
Aerodynamic package > GP2
Looks > GP2
Tyre suplier > spin off of GP2 tyre suplier
Steering Wheel > similar to Superleague

Your conclusion: car is based on a Superleague Formula.:confused:

Whatever mate. Just show the FB to any person with a remote interest in motorsport, ask him/her what car is that, and you know what he/she is going to say.

vicdavery
20-10-2015, 14:04
Okay Doge, you're right. Everything anybody else has said is complete nonsense.

Now, can we all go and have more productive conversations with people who are somewhat more gracious and pleasant.

Bealdor
20-10-2015, 14:05
Your conclusion: car is based on a Superleague Formula.:confused:

My conclusion comes from the fact that I know it from the WMD forums. ;)

RomKnight
20-10-2015, 14:09
Which I can confirm.

Doge
20-10-2015, 14:18
My conclusion comes from the fact that I know it from the WMD forums. ;)

I have no clue what was WMD idea. I do know how the car turned out and itīs a GP2 with too much downforce and mechanical grip.

Colon wanted to go to India and he ended up in America. That doesnīt make America transform into India. I donīt know what WMD TRIED to create, I know what arrived to my hands.

Stocky
20-10-2015, 14:19
I don't see any specific urgent attention needed to Formula either.

There are other things that need urgency but please don't mess with the formula cars.

If anything, maybe hard compounds or make the intermediates useful.

I do find it strange that soft slicks are what you use in light rain, and not the intermediates.

Yes, softs in light rain!!!!!!!! Try it, it's like it's not raining at all.

Doge
20-10-2015, 14:21
BTW, that video also shows how the Yiro is inmune to overheating.

Iīm lapping fast with orange/red tyres, and I guarantee you if I inflate them and keep them green, I get slower laptimes.

Doge
20-10-2015, 14:42
Okay Doge, you're right. Everything anybody else has said is complete nonsense.

Now, can we all go and have more productive conversations with people who are somewhat more gracious and pleasant.

Good idea! Thatīs what I was trying in the OP, as you can see I explain several specific problems that need to be adressed. That was trying to cause a productive discussion about what needs improvement.

But then a rude guy that was calling me a liar forced me to waste some time driving and uploading a clip to prove I wasnīt making up my claims.

Anyway, now heīs been silenced, hopefully we can move into productive discussions I intended to have, such as:

- FB has too much downforce and grip. Any plans to improve it?
- Yiro tyre doesnīt lose grip or durability when it overheats. Is a fix being worked on?
- FA needs more stopping power.
- FA needs DRS rules for race day or, if deemed an unworthy effort, an option to ban its use on race day.

KkDrummer
20-10-2015, 15:20
Good idea! Thatīs what I was trying in the OP, as you can see I explain several specific problems that need to be adressed. That was trying to cause a productive discussion about what needs improvement.

But then a rude guy that was calling me a liar forced me to waste some time driving and uploading a clip to prove I wasnīt making up my claims.

Anyway, now heīs been silenced, hopefully we can move into productive discussions I intended to have, such as:

- FB has too much downforce and grip. Any plans to improve it?
- Yiro tyre doesnīt lose grip or durability when it overheats. Is a fix being worked on?
- FA needs more stopping power.
- FA needs DRS rules for race day or, if deemed an unworthy effort, an option to ban its use on race day.

I don't know if you've noticed, but you've been talking with yourself for the past hour....

Aizcold
20-10-2015, 16:11
Good idea! Thatīs what I was trying in the OP, as you can see I explain several specific problems that need to be adressed. That was trying to cause a productive discussion about what needs improvement.

But then a rude guy that was calling me a liar forced me to waste some time driving and uploading a clip to prove I wasnīt making up my claims.

Anyway, now heīs been silenced, hopefully we can move into productive discussions I intended to have, such as:

- FB has too much downforce and grip. Any plans to improve it?
- Yiro tyre doesnīt lose grip or durability when it overheats. Is a fix being worked on?
- FA needs more stopping power.
- FA needs DRS rules for race day or, if deemed an unworthy effort, an option to ban its use on race day.

Why do they need to be addressed? Because you don't like them? If other people enjoy racing them, what's the problem? Ok, maybe it's possible to exploit the set up options to create a car that is unrealistically grippy. So don't do that then if you don't like that.

You may not like the current FA and FB cars, but saying they need urgent attention is a bit exaggerated as there are still many other things about this game that could be fixed or improved and that most people would probably rate as much more urgent as well,

Mad Al
20-10-2015, 16:14
I have no clue what was WMD idea. I do know how the car turned out and itīs a GP2 with too much downforce and mechanical grip.

Colon wanted to go to India and he ended up in America. That doesnīt make America transform into India. I donīt know what WMD TRIED to create, I know what arrived to my hands.

WMD created exactly what it set out to, a series of progressively faster cars from the Rookie through to FA. The fact you want the FA to use the same DRS rules as F1 shows you've rather missed the point, this is not F1 2015.. and it's not supposed to be. The same as the FB isn't a Super league car, nor is it GP2 or F2.. it's just somewhere between the FC and the FA..

Neil Hopwood
20-10-2015, 16:25
WMD created exactly what it set out to, a series of progressively faster cars from the Rookie through to FA. The fact you want the FA to use the same DRS rules as F1 shows you've rather missed the point, this is not F1 2015.. and it's not supposed to be. The same as the FB isn't a Super league car, nor is it GP2 or F2.. it's just somewhere between the FC and the FA..

Also, the FA DRS works very similarly to the same as the F-duct on the McLaren in 08. So its not unprecidented.

RomKnight
20-10-2015, 16:27
that heating problem i'm nearly sure it affects every tyre because I've heard friends talking about it. Don't know how it'll affect wear though..

But good new is, STM is a WIP so, we need wait.

Doge
20-10-2015, 17:19
Why do they need to be addressed? Because you don't like them? If other people enjoy racing them, what's the problem? Ok, maybe it's possible to exploit the set up options to create a car that is unrealistically grippy. So don't do that then if you don't like that.

You may not like the current FA and FB cars, but saying they need urgent attention is a bit exaggerated as there are still many other things about this game that could be fixed or improved and that most people would probably rate as much more urgent as well,

They need to be adressed because theyīre off. Itīs not quite the case of a setup exploit boosting the car to stupid pace. I can do low 25īs on default. I can do mid 24īs after tunning the suspensión to my liking without using the tyre pressure trick. The car simply has WAY to much performance for whatever they tried to create, and as a result itīs not enjoyable. It drives on rails.

Of course, everyone is free to push for THEIR priorities to be solved first. Thatīs what I do here. These cars are important for me to get some fun out of the game, and I canīt in their current shape.


Also, the FA DRS works very similarly to the same as the F-duct on the McLaren in 08. So its not unprecidented.

2010, dude. The 2008 car didnīt even have shark fin :rolleyes: And actually the DRS Works the same way DRS worked on 2011 on every session except for the race. It was like that to force teams to lenghten their gearing selection and make DRS effective on race day (opposed to them hitting the limiter).


WMD created exactly what it set out to, a series of progressively faster cars from the Rookie through to FA. The fact you want the FA to use the same DRS rules as F1 shows you've rather missed the point, this is not F1 2015.. and it's not supposed to be. The same as the FB isn't a Super league car, nor is it GP2 or F2.. it's just somewhere between the FC and the FA..

Thatīs very convenient. You miss the goal by 15 meters, so you just move the goalposts. The FA is a clear 2011 Formula 1 wannabe. It has the same power, engine layout, same tyre supplier, same aero package, same power recovery and deployment rules... for Godīs sake, it has EBDīs, and liveries which are clearly based on some of the most famous teams of the series!!

Only reason it has no DRS rules is because it would take effort to code the zones for the tracks. I understand that, it wasnīt worth. What bothers me is how it was just thrown in for good measure without even stopping to think if it would have been better for gameplay purposes to not have it at all on races.

Bealdor
20-10-2015, 17:32
Thatīs not quite the case, itīs not only a matter of a setup trick boosting the car to stupid pace. I can do low 25īs on default. The car simply has WAY to much performance for whatever they tried to create.

Compared to a GP2 car, yes it's too fast. Compared to the FA and FC it fits in pretty nicely, which is the important part IMO.


Thatīs very convenient. You miss the goal by 15 meters, so you just move the goalposts. The FA is a clear 2011 Formula 1 wannabe. It has the same power, engine layout, it has EBD, same tyre supplier... Only reason it has no DRS rules is because it would take effort to code the zones for the tracks. So it was just thrown in for good measure without even stopping to think if it would have been better to not have it at all.

Nope. They didn't implement the F1 DRS rules because they don't like them. You're free to disagree with this of course.

Aizcold
20-10-2015, 17:39
They need to be adressed because theyīre off. Itīs not quite the case of a setup exploit boosting the car to stupid pace. I can do low 25īs on default. I can do mid 24īs after tunning the suspensión to my liking without using the tyre pressure trick. The car simply has WAY to much performance for whatever they tried to create, and as a result itīs not enjoyable. It drives on rails.

Of course, everyone is free to push for THEIR priorities to be solved first. Thatīs what I do here. These cars are important for me to get some fun out of the game, and I canīt in their current shape.



2010, dude. The 2008 car didnīt even have shark fin :rolleyes: And actually the DRS Works the same way DRS worked on 2011 on every session except for the race. It was like that to force teams to lenghten their gearing selection and make DRS effective on race day (opposed to them hitting the limiter).



Thatīs very convenient. You miss the goal by 15 meters, so you just move the goalposts. The FA is a clear 2011 Formula 1 wannabe. It has the same power, engine layout, same tyre supplier... for Godīs sake, it has EBDīs!!

Only reason it has no DRS rules is because it would take effort to code the zones for the tracks. So it was just thrown in for good measure without even stopping to think if it would have been better for gameplay purposes to not have it at all.

I think the problem lies more with your expectations. You see the Formula B as a GP2 car and want it to have similar performance. I can understand that as you're probably much more of a F1/open wheel fan than I am.

I couldn't give a damn about F1 or real life open wheel racing and I don't care at all how the Formula B car compares to real life counterparts. So from my perspective there isn't much that really needs to be fixed either. Apart from the issue with tyres that overheat not actually having reduced grip. I would consider that a bug that should probably be reported if it hasn't been already.

And of course everyone is free to push their priorities, but judging by the reactions in this thread your choice to go with some slight hyperbole in getting attention for these perceived issues isn't working. Well, you got the attention, but I'm not sure it's the right kind of attention and if anything productive will come from this thread.

Doge
20-10-2015, 17:48
Compared to a GP2 car, yes it's too fast. Compared to the FA and FC it fits in pretty nicely, which is the important part IMO.

Itīs too fast compared with everything in the real World right now mate. Not even current F1 cars can beat them, youīd have to go back in time to find a car that can beat these times.

Anyway, IMO, the important part is how they drive. And something with 600 HP and crazy grip levels isnīt going to be enjoyable to drive.


Nope. They didn't implement the F1 DRS rules because they don't like them. You're free to disagree with this of course.

No sell mate. Unlimited DRS is easily the worst possible solution someone with total freedom to create their own series would select. It serves no purpose as everyone uses it in the same places, so it doesnīt do anything racing-wise, plus it encourages running high downforce levels pretty much everywhere.

I would buy your story it if they came up with smart solutions (like 10 deployments per race, regardless of where). Like this, youīll have a hard time convincing anyone itīs a decission to have it like this.

Doge
20-10-2015, 17:54
I think the problem lies more with your expectations. You see the Formula B as a GP2 car and want it to have similar performance. I can understand that as you're probably much more of a F1/open wheel fan than I am.

I couldn't give a damn about F1 or real life open wheel racing and I don't care at all how the Formula B car compares to real life counterparts. So from my perspective there isn't much that really needs to be fixed either. Apart from the issue with tyres that overheat not actually having reduced grip. I would consider that a bug that should probably be reported if it hasn't been already.

And of course everyone is free to push their priorities, but judging by the reactions in this thread your choice to go with some slight hyperbole in getting attention for these perceived issues isn't working. Well, you got the attention, but I'm not sure it's the right kind of attention and if anything productive will come from this thread.

Thatīs exactly the problem, you donīt like these cars, so you donīt think itīs important. I do care. And I canīt get fun out of them now.

I honestly donīt care about the reactions, Iīm just reporting stuff thatīs off. Itīs their call to check if my feedback is correct and improve whatever is wrong, or just deflect it off. BTW, youīre free to point out any of these hyperboles. AFAIK everything reported is factual.

If nothing good comes out of the thread, too bad, but it wonīt be down to me. I think weīve gone through that ugly part where someone thinks Iīm reporting made up stuff and fake laptimes.

Aizcold
20-10-2015, 18:04
It's not necessarily that I don't like them, it's just generally that I don't care about how they correspond to real life cars. On the controller they are way too twitchy, but in the short time I've driven them with the wheel they seem perfectly fine to me. If the goal of SMS was not to replicate the performance of the real life cars anyway (and it seems it wasn't) then most of your issues with these cars are kind of irrelevant. Apart from the tyre overheating issue that is. The rest is simply a matter of taste and perspective and not a real 'issue' if you ask me.

Bealdor
20-10-2015, 18:06
I've notified the devs about that potential tire performance issue. Hopefully they can shed some light on this.

konnos
20-10-2015, 18:06
How incredibly childish, unless you are about to post your race driver credentials and pedigree your words carry no weight at all. If you do I still want you to be wrong for being such a **** about it.

I think you missed his attempt at humour, he was implying he's gonna hit the time trial to make that 1:23 happen ;)

TrevorAustin
20-10-2015, 18:09
I don't know if you've noticed, but you've been talking with yourself for the past hour....

I'm guessing that's not unusual:)

Doge
20-10-2015, 18:16
I've notified the devs about that potential tire performance issue. Hopefully they can shed some light on this.

Nice, it should be really easy for them to check it out.

No idea if it applies other cars and compounds and is a game general thing (like the no-camber exploit), but itīs certainly a thing with the Yiro tyre and the FB.

Doge
20-10-2015, 18:29
If the goal of SMS was not to replicate the performance of the real life cars anyway (and it seems it wasn't)...

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/f1-in-project-cars.45811/
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/archive/index.php/t-27298.html
https://steamcommunity.com/app/234630/discussions/0/613948093893056105/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-car-list.305494/
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/35xuh1/ot_psa_project_cars_formula_a_is_probably_a/

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
20-10-2015, 18:54
No idea if it applies other cars and compounds and is a game general thing (like the no-camber exploit), but itīs certainly a thing with the Yiro tyre and the FB.
In Formula A, Yiros don't seem odd to me, and they don't screw up the FFB.

Stocky
20-10-2015, 19:12
Nice, it should be really easy for them to check it out.

No idea if it applies other cars and compounds and is a game general thing (like the no-camber exploit), but itīs certainly a thing with the Yiro tyre and the FB.

What no-camber exploit?

Doge
20-10-2015, 19:20
In Formula A, Yiros don't seem odd to me, and they don't screw up the FFB.

I think both soft and mediums are Pirelli for the FA.

And yes, these tyres react much better to temperature changes. Thereīs less grip after you overheat them. Itīs weird bu I havenīt had that FFB bug some people mentions with the Yiros on the FB, it works OK for me.

Doge
20-10-2015, 19:26
What no-camber exploit?

Low (negative) camber values are "too good" at the moment.

As you add negative camber the car loses a lot of straight line speed for some reason, and there are also questions regarding the extra lateral grip you get after increasing it. Some say itīs not enough, others say all the problem comes from the lost straight line speed. There are also some people saying it doesnīt affect enough the inside-center-outside tyre temperatures you get after driving.

Theyīre working on a fix. In the end low negative camber values should benefit braking and traction on a straight line, high negative camber levels should benefit lateral grip.

Aizcold
20-10-2015, 19:37
http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/f1-in-project-cars.45811/
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/archive/index.php/t-27298.html
https://steamcommunity.com/app/234630/discussions/0/613948093893056105/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-car-list.305494/
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/35xuh1/ot_psa_project_cars_formula_a_is_probably_a/
None of those are from the WMD forum though are they? Nor do they describe what the devs intended. It's just how people interpret it. And even if the Formula A and B cars are based on a real life, that doesn't mean their performance also needs to be identical. It might be different if it's an actual licensed car like the GT3 cars or whatnot, but SMS didn't have any sort of licence agreement they had to work with here or anything, so they could do what they wanted with these cars.

You even said yourself that the Formula B cars are fun to drive. So I really don't see how them being a bit too fast for your liking is any sort of issue that should be fixed.

Stocky
20-10-2015, 19:38
Low (negative) camber values are "too good" at the moment.

As you add negative camber the car loses a lot of straight line speed for some reason, and there are also questions regarding the extra lateral grip you get after increasing it. Some say itīs not enough, others say all the problem comes from the lost straight line speed.

You mean as you add camber (not add negative camber), in your second sentence? Adding negative camber just makes it more negative.

If that's the case, that makes sense, thanks. Make camber as negative as possible for now. I assume you only mean the front cambers?

Schnizz58
20-10-2015, 19:44
You mean as you add camber (not add negative camber), in your second sentence? Adding negative camber just makes it more negative.

If that's the case, that makes sense, thanks. Make camber as negative as possible for now. I assume you only mean the front cambers?
Run minimum camber front and rear for now until it gets sorted. By minimum, I mean lowest angle (least negative).

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
20-10-2015, 21:16
Run minimum camber front and rear for now until it gets sorted. By minimum, I mean lowest angle (least negative).

I think the camber issue is kind of blown out of proportion. I get less snap oversteer with some negative rear camber (vs. 0), and cars get pointier and pointier the more neg. front camber I add--positioning the front gets easier. I spent many hours on a time trial at Spa in Formula A recently, trying just about every setting for everything, and set my best time with a lot of front and a little rear (negative camber). IRL more neg. camber doesn't automatically mean better lateral grip: you can reduce contact patch and decrease grip. There would be a sweet spot for every corner at every speed.

Doge
20-10-2015, 21:52
None of those are from the WMD forum though are they?

Should have read them mate. Yes, there are post from WMD members. Thereīs a very fun one, and I quote:


"Currently in pCARS you can activate KERS and DRS anytime you want. Our tracks don't have the proper triggers built into them yet for DRS Zones and the timing system isn't tied to the KERS function yet either(to see how close you are the car in the position directly ahead of you if in a race). No idea if that functionality will make into the launch version or in a later game patch. At least they got the DRS closing when you touch the brakes in so far. :)"

Funny as Iīve been told it was a design decission to keep DRS like this when you have posts like this showing itīs clearly not the case.

Everybody during the development phase, including WMD members, talked about the FA as a "fictional 2011 F1 car". Not a "fictional high performance single seater". You can even find posts with WMD members boasting about how close Rene Rast times in the FA were to the real life times from the real car. They WERE trying to get (and sell us) fidelity to the real thing.

Gravit8
20-10-2015, 21:53
Yeah. The only reason this IS NOT a "gp2" car is licensing.
I'm ok with it being different than you want.
But the tire over heat thing sounds like a possible exploit that could use some attention.
My guess is the Fb and fa use same tires, but not same horsepower engine. Hence the easy use of tires.
Not sure what they'd do. Inventing a new tire unlikely.

Owning devs won't get you anywhere, but it was fun to watch. Far different than the usual sarcasm from the developer side I get to watch.
Good luck

Doge
20-10-2015, 21:55
I think the camber isue is kind of blown out of proportion. I get less snap oversteer with some negative rear camber (vs. 0), and cars get pointier and pointier the more neg. front camber I add--positioning the front gets easier. I spent many hours on a time trial at Spa in Formula A recently, trying just about every setting for everything, and set my best time with a lot of front and a little rear (negative camber). IRL more neg. camber doesn't automatically mean better lateral grip: you can reduce contact patch and decrease grip. There would be a sweet spot for every corner at every speed.

Thereīs like 10 km/h difference with the FB between a -4ī2 front -2ī0 rear setup and a -2ī8 front 1ī2 rear setup.

Itīs almost like messing around with your rear wing, itīs really bad.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
20-10-2015, 22:23
Thereīs like 10 km/h difference with the FB between a -4ī2 front -2ī0 rear setup and a -2ī8 front 1ī2 rear setup.

Itīs almost like messing around with your rear wing, itīs really bad.

I didn't go as high as -4.2/-2.0, however it wasn't 0/0 and I was doing 220mph at the end of Kemmel. I didn't notice any speed gains from lowering camber.

QPRLad
20-10-2015, 23:05
Should have read them mate. Yes, there are post from WMD members. Thereīs a very fun one, and I quote:


"Currently in pCARS you can activate KERS and DRS anytime you want. Our tracks don't have the proper triggers built into them yet for DRS Zones and the timing system isn't tied to the KERS function yet either(to see how close you are the car in the position directly ahead of you if in a race). No idea if that functionality will make into the launch version or in a later game patch. At least they got the DRS closing when you touch the brakes in so far. :)"

Funny as Iīve been told it was a design decission to keep DRS like this when you have posts like this showing itīs clearly not the case.

Everybody during the development phase, including WMD members, talked about the FA as a "fictional 2011 F1 car". Not a "fictional high performance single seater". You can even find posts with WMD members boasting about how close Rene Rast times in the FA were to the real life times from the real car. They WERE trying to get (and sell us) fidelity to the real thing.

Aldo Zampatti also states the FB car is "similar to the super league formula car" but you don't choose to believe that guy?

Everyone else on the forum links suggesting what the cars are based on happen to be ordinary users like me or you.

TrevorAustin
20-10-2015, 23:46
Should have read them mate. Yes, there are post from WMD members. Thereīs a very fun one, and I quote:


"Currently in pCARS you can activate KERS and DRS anytime you want. Our tracks don't have the proper triggers built into them yet for DRS Zones and the timing system isn't tied to the KERS function yet either(to see how close you are the car in the position directly ahead of you if in a race). No idea if that functionality will make into the launch version or in a later game patch. At least they got the DRS closing when you touch the brakes in so far. :)"

Funny as Iīve been told it was a design decission to keep DRS like this when you have posts like this showing itīs clearly not the case.

Everybody during the development phase, including WMD members, talked about the FA as a "fictional 2011 F1 car". Not a "fictional high performance single seater". You can even find posts with WMD members boasting about how close Rene Rast times in the FA were to the real life times from the real car. They WERE trying to get (and sell us) fidelity to the real thing.

Should know what you're talking about mate. A wmd member is no more or less than a forum member during development. So he's just guessing, but at least there's a little humility to his guesses. Unlike every single one of your patronising cocky posts. Why anybody is trying to reason with you I have no idea. You don't want a discussion, you want to be right.

For my opinion, I love all the open wheelers as they are and nothing needs to be done. I'd like more though and a couple of things fixed would be nice.

Mahjik
21-10-2015, 00:04
As stated by every WMD member here (and myself in another thread), the FB was started being inspired by the Superleague Formula. I'm not sure if SMS had the Formula A in mind when it was created, but after the Formula A was created the Formula B was eventually lowered in performance. It may have ended up where the GP2 cars are at, but it was never inspired by GP2 to begin with...

Stocky
21-10-2015, 01:14
Run minimum camber front and rear for now until it gets sorted. By minimum, I mean lowest angle (least negative).

Sorry for my confusion. Wouldn't the lowest angle be 0.0 or -0.1 ?? Run front and backs at that?
FA fronts go from -4.9 to 0.0
FA rears go from -3.9 to 0.0

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 06:42
Should have read them mate. Yes, there are post from WMD members. Thereīs a very fun one, and I quote:


"Currently in pCARS you can activate KERS and DRS anytime you want. Our tracks don't have the proper triggers built into them yet for DRS Zones and the timing system isn't tied to the KERS function yet either(to see how close you are the car in the position directly ahead of you if in a race). No idea if that functionality will make into the launch version or in a later game patch. At least they got the DRS closing when you touch the brakes in so far. :)"

Funny as Iīve been told it was a design decission to keep DRS like this when you have posts like this showing itīs clearly not the case.

You can believe a random Steam forum post if you want. I prefer to believe the dev posts at WMD.


We're not copying any of the silly F1-style rules about 1sec gap, zones, etc. Use it whenever you dare to attack or defend.

QPRLad
21-10-2015, 08:18
Sorry for my confusion. Wouldn't the lowest angle be 0.0 or -0.1 ?? Run front and backs at that?
FA fronts go from -4.9 to 0.0
FA rears go from -3.9 to 0.0

Lowest (or smallest) angle will be zero.

AB_Attack
21-10-2015, 08:30
It's not necessarily that I don't like them, it's just generally that I don't care about how they correspond to real life cars... If the goal of SMS was not to replicate the performance of the real life cars anyway (and it seems it wasn't) then most of your issues with these cars are kind of irrelevant.
It is a simracer you know. It does aim to simulate real life racing. Else we could have banana-cars that are faster than F1 in the game. So. Doge's points are pretty good and he should be given some credit for bringing them. It is also unfortunate that FB clearly looks like a GP2 car but because there must be some lack of license nobody responsible is allowed to admit that. That's the only reason I can think of.

I can accept DRS and KERS as it is in the game though. That is clearly something that is real and the use is simply bound by rules and rules are ok to change without loosing simulation value.

Pappa_Stig
21-10-2015, 08:38
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been asked, but is the drs ever going to work for the AI? I remember seeing videos pre release of the AI's drs being open almost all the time, even in fast corners, and I asked what the go was, and was told that they only have a visual representation of drs, but it's effectively closed for them all the time, with it being visually open over a certain speed to make it look like it works. If this is wrong, why are they painfully slow on straights with drs open, and how/why do they keep it open even under brakes and through all but the slowest of corners?

Also, in replays, the player's drs is open all the time like the AI's, and not just when the player actually has it open, and the gear indicator on the wheel goes mental, constantly changing numbers up and down, not just when the player is changing gears. These two bugs are only in the replay.

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 08:41
It is a simracer you know. It does aim to simulate real life racing...

That doesn't mean that it has to be limited to real life specs.
Just because the car has more performance than real life open wheelers the game doesn't get less simulator, as long as the physics are calculated as realistic as possible of course.

AB_Attack
21-10-2015, 08:45
That doesn't mean that it has to be limited to real life specs.
Just because the car has more performance than real life open wheelers the game doesn't get less simulator, as long as the physics are calculated as realistic as possible of course.
Absolutely true. I was thinking about the tyres and such. And it is still weird that a car looking like a GP2 (and should therefore have similar downforce) and having the same HP still outperforms real Life F1 at Catalunya like given example of in this thread. That does suggest not actually being in tune with reality even if it isn't a GP2 car.

Tomcul
21-10-2015, 09:06
Can the fa car easily beat the fb car around the same track?

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 09:10
Can the fa car easily beat the fb car around the same track?

Yes, it's at least 5s per lap faster on pretty much every track (on many tracks even more).

Tomcul
21-10-2015, 09:22
Ok.. And can the fb beat the fc by about the same amount?

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 09:33
Ok.. And can the fb beat the fc by about the same amount?

Yes, the Formula cars are pretty well balanced against each other ingame. FA is 5-10s faster than FB and FB is 5-10s faster than FC which is ~10s faster than Formula Gulf.

balderz002
21-10-2015, 09:36
I can see where Tom is going with this............

Mad Al
21-10-2015, 09:36
Absolutely true. I was thinking about the tyres and such. And it is still weird that a car looking like a GP2 (and should therefore have similar downforce) and having the same HP still outperforms real Life F1 at Catalunya like given example of in this thread. That does suggest not actually being in tune with reality even if it isn't a GP2 car.

If you really want to compare to real life the FA is based on 2011 F1 spec performance (that doesn't make it an F1 car) so how about comparing to the 2011 times (which is why I originally said, this is NOT F1 2015)... or better still look at what The FA does around various circuits and compare to the FB... the aim was to have distinct performance gaps between the formula cars.. nothing specific (and yes the FB was originally modelled more on the Super league performance, but was too close to the FA as has already been stated)

And as I said earlier, it's not a GP2 or F2 or Superleague car, or even F Renault 3.5.. yes it takes cues from all those but it's not specifically any of them (it could have looked like anything, but this is supposed to have some grounding in real racing, so it has to look familiar enough for people to accept it as being a second tier formula car.. which is obviously what it has managed to do)

Now would anyone like to comment on the use of a tubular chassis for the Formula C...

balderz002
21-10-2015, 09:40
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/results/9418513.stm

Any help?

Tomcul
21-10-2015, 09:50
Yes, the Formula cars are pretty well balanced against each other ingame. FA is 5-10s faster than FB and FB is 5-10s faster than FC which is ~10s faster than Formula Gulf.
Thanks for the reply's. Can't see the op's problem so if the classes are balanced..

QPRLad
21-10-2015, 10:24
Absolutely true. I was thinking about the tyres and such. And it is still weird that a car looking like a GP2 (and should therefore have similar downforce) and having the same HP still outperforms real Life F1 at Catalunya like given example of in this thread. That does suggest not actually being in tune with reality even if it isn't a GP2 car.

Why are you comparing the current F1, they're completely different Specs?
Go back to the 2011 F1 car and the Formula B is 3 seconds off the pace of their Qualifying Time which was 1'20.981.

Doge
21-10-2015, 11:21
You can believe a random Steam forum post if you want. I prefer to believe the dev posts at WMD.

Your call. The guy at page 1 went with Ben Collins assesment of FBīs performance against a random poster, and it was easy to prove he was wrong. Itīs better to go with what makes sense mate, regardless of the source, because IT MAKES SENSE. And this quote:

"We're not copying any of the silly F1-style rules about 1sec gap, zones, etc. Use it whenever you dare to attack or defend."

Does not make any sense at all. If you free DRS it stops having anything to do at all with "attack" or "defend" a position. This is yada-yada, be it from a dev, Murray Walker, or Madonna. If you have free DRS you open it every corner as soon as you donīt need the rear downforce regardless of anyone elseīs position. It has nothing to do with racing for position AT ALL if you make it free, you open it all the time in every lap in the exact same places, as does anyone else.

DRS target was to give the follower a compensation for dirty air in the shape of extra straight line speed. Of everyone has it, it does nothing to the racing.


Yes, the Formula cars are pretty well balanced against each other ingame. FA is 5-10s faster than FB and FB is 5-10s faster than FC which is ~10s faster than Formula Gulf.

Good luck to pumping a laptime between 1:13īs and 1:18īs consistenly in the FA around Barcelona, in a October free practice green track, with default cooling and no funny TT setups.

Doge
21-10-2015, 11:36
Why are you comparing the current F1, they're completely different Specs?
Go back to the 2011 F1 car and the Formula B is 3 seconds off the pace of their Qualifying Time which was 1'20.981.

OK, letīs do that.

The time I posted after driving a while on the FB, on a green track, and NOT on a qualifying setup is enough to qualify 13th in 2011īs the Formula 1 grid. I beat half the Formula 1 grid in a FB!

That is terrible, especially considering they used DRS the whole lap that year. And I guarantee you it can get worse if I use a qualifying setup and drive on a rubbered track. Even worse if I use one boost into the start of the lap and another one during the lap itself as you would in a quali lap.

Imagine the amount of extra downforce I have over them to get into Q2 with a 200+ HP deficit and no DRS every straight, with them on a rubbered May track and me on a green October one.

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 11:40
Your call. The guy at page 1 went with Ben Collins assesment of FBīs performance against a random poster, and it was easy to prove he was wrong. Itīs better to go with what makes sense mate, regardless of the source, because IT MAKES SENSE. And this quote:

"We're not copying any of the silly F1-style rules about 1sec gap, zones, etc. Use it whenever you dare to attack or defend."

Does not make any sense at all. If you free DRS it stops having anything to do at all with "attack" or "defend" a position. This is yada-yada, be it from a dev, Murray Walker, or Madonna. If you have free DRS you open it every corner as soon as you donīt need the rear downforce regardless of anyone elseīs position. It has nothing to do with racing for position AT ALL if you make it free, you open it all the time in every lap in the exact same places, as does anyone else.

DRS target was to give the follower a compensation for dirty air in the shape of extra straight line speed. Of everyone has it, it does nothing to the racing.

I never said you have to agree with/like this decision.



Nope. Good luck to pumping a laptime between 1:13īs and 1:18īs consistenly in the FA around Barcelona, in a October free practice green track, with default cooling and no funny TT setups.

Even if we buy that the only target was internal coherence, the current picture fails to achieve it. FB has better brakes and behaves much better on high speed corners as itīs way too close to FA.

Well, it looks like all the leaderboards I've checked must be wrong then... :rolleyes:

Raven403
21-10-2015, 11:42
OK, letīs do that.

The time I posted after driving a while on the FB, on a green track, and NOT on a qualifying setup is enough to qualify 13th in 2011īs the Formula 1 grid,. I beat half the Formula 1 grid in a FB. That is terrible, especially considering they used DRS the whole lap. And I guarantee you it can get worse if I use a qualifying setup and drive on a rubbered track. Even worse if I use one boost into the start of the lap and another one during the lap itself as you would in a quali lap.

Imagine the amount of extra downforce I have over them to get to this situation with a 200+ HP deficit.

Why does it matter? They arent the same. The FA is still faster than the FB, thats the point, its a different class, it doesnt have to be compared to anything real life. I agree with you about free DRS, it seems dumb to have it at all in that case.

QPRLad
21-10-2015, 11:44
Nope. Good luck to pumping a laptime between 1:13īs and 1:18īs consistenly in the FA around Barcelona, in a October free practice green track, with default cooling and no funny TT setups.

Even if we buy that the only target was internal coherence, the current picture fails to achieve it. FB has better brakes and behaves much better on high speed corners as itīs way too close to FA.


FA Times - http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=521933422&vehicle=1909945073

FB Times - http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=521933422&vehicle=2976119256

Seems about right.

John Hargreaves
21-10-2015, 12:04
I like to think of the FA as the best of what recent Formula One has to offer; it avoids all the ugly bodyshapes of very recent years and is a clean unfussy design that I think is as good looking as anything the real teams have brought out in the current (i.e. the Jensen Button years) era.
In default trim, I did feel that the driving sensation seemed a little odd, but I have had fun tweaking the setup to get it to drive a little looser and driftier on the limit, trying to reproduce how the cars look on TV. I don't think this has made it any faster for me, but it has become a whole lot more fun to drive and feels more like what the real cars look like in motion.
After all this, I'm loving this car at the moment and really don't care how it compares to anything else. Multiple custom liveries, custom championships and an AI names editor would be great to have, but it's too much fun to be that bothered.

cluck
21-10-2015, 12:11
The cars are fictional. Any debate on relative performance to real world cars is an absolute waste of pixels, data storage and energy. That they share elements from real world cars still renders this whole debate a waste of time. They don't exist as real world cars.

Oh and I beat Rene Rast around Silverstone some time ago (as did quite a few people), using his setup. Does that make me (and the others) better than Rene Rast? Does it heck. Which again brings to light the problem with comparing sim laptimes with real world laptimes - ie, you can't really, especially not when you are comparing fictional cars to what you perceive to be their nearest real-world equivalent.

EDIT : I drove the FB around Catalunya for a TGC race, the first time I'd driven the car in a long time. It never crossed my mind that the car might be something loosely based on reality, I knew I was driving the FB and that the FB is slower than the FA. The FB was a lot of fun. I don't know how else to describe my experience of driving it. It required focus and concentration, yes, but it was a fun car to drive.

Doge
21-10-2015, 12:43
FA Times - http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=521933422&vehicle=1909945073

FB Times - http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.com/index.php/leaderboard?track=521933422&vehicle=2976119256

Seems about right.

Except the part where I already posted here a 1:23 for the FB. On free practice with tyre deg and fuel consumption on. On a October track. On a race setup. Without trying to set a leaderboard time (low pressures, closed cooling, etc). That means thereīs plenty of room for improvement.


The cars are fictional. Any debate on relative performance to real world cars is an absolute waste of pixels, data storage and energy. That they share elements from real world cars still renders this whole debate a waste of time.

Sounds to me like this:

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

No sell. The car was mentioned by WMD members across plenty of boards as a "fictional/unlicensed 2011 F1", not as a "fictional high performance single seater". It was convenient then, and it lured costumers.

Now the attempt to create a believable replica has been not a success, itīs suddenly has nothing to do with a 2011 F1. All despite the obvious F1 team livery mock ups, the tyre supplier mock up (copying even the most common color for tyre marking), the exact same KERS deployment (same energy stored, same energy allowed to be used per lap), the DRS, the EBDs, the engine output, the engine layout, the aero package...

vicdavery
21-10-2015, 12:51
Except the part where I already posted here a 1:23 for the FB. On free practice with tyre deg and fuel consumption on. On a October track. On a race setup. Without trying to set a leaderboard time (low pressures, closed cooling, etc). That means thereīs plenty of room for improvement.

If I were you, I'd do it in TT and get your name top of the list then. I'd love to be in a position to beat the next contender by 3 seconds. Ain't ever going to happen for me. :)

If I could offer a small suggestion, you'll get a lot more buy-in for your thoughts if you offer them as opinions, which is what they are, rather than an absolute statement of fact. That sort of language tends to irritate people, which is why you're probably seeing so much opposition.

Doge
21-10-2015, 12:56
If I were you, I'd do it in TT and get your name top of the list then. I'd love to be in a position to beat the next contender by 3 seconds. Ain't ever going to happen for me. :)

If I could offer a small suggestion, you'll get a lot more buy-in for your thoughts if you offer them as opinions, which is what they are, rather than an absolute statement of fact. That sort of language tends to irritate people, which is why you're probably seeing so much opposition.

I have 0 interest in leaderboards. I race.

Iīm not sharing any opinions, but laptimes, power outputs, pictures... measurable stuff. Everything said here is backed up with evidence.
I donīt say Formula A lacks stopping power because "I think so" but because I canīt lock up a tyre and because I need to brake much earlier than real cars do.
I donīt say Formula B has too much downforce because "I think so" but because I can go as fast as cars that should have much more power and grip.

vicdavery
21-10-2015, 13:01
Alright, I give up now.

Can't help some people. ;)

At the end of the day, if you're not happy with the game go and play something you do enjoy. Plenty of people do not see any "need" to change the FA/FB from what they currently are, myself included.

cluck
21-10-2015, 13:05
Worth pointing out that time trial times do not necessarily reflect the conditions that will create the very fastest laps possible, rather, they provide a fixed set of conditions for people to compare their times in. They are invariably in very warm conditions, which doesn't always provide the best engine performance and/or the best grip.

I have regularly driven faster in races (even without the aid of a toe/draft), almost always due to the lower ambient temperatures giving the engines a healthy extra bit of whoomph :).

Doge
21-10-2015, 13:05
Of course you canīt help, devs can by improving whatīs wrong.

PCARS is still the best console racing game avaliable, so I canīt go "play something else I enjoy". Iīm stuck with this so might as well try to make it better.

Mahjik
21-10-2015, 13:09
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been asked, but is the drs ever going to work for the AI?

Doubtful there will be any improvements in this space for pCARS1.


Also, in replays, the player's drs is open all the time like the AI's, and not just when the player actually has it open, and the gear indicator on the wheel goes mental, constantly changing numbers up and down, not just when the player is changing gears. These two bugs are only in the replay.

That is a replay limitation. The full telemetry isn't exported with replays so certain elements aren't triggered like they were during live driving. There was some discussion to see if SMS could increase the data in the current replay system without having to re-design it, but there hasn't been much word since. Likely something that may require too much change (and also the replay sizes need to fit on the consoles).

Doge
21-10-2015, 13:12
Worth pointing out that time trial times do not necessarily reflect the conditions that will create the very fastest laps possible, rather, they provide a fixed set of conditions for people to compare their times in. They are invariably in very warm conditions, which doesn't always provide the best engine performance and/or the best grip.

I have regularly driven faster in races (even without the aid of a toe/draft), almost always due to the lower ambient temperatures giving the engines a healthy extra bit of whoomph :).

Of course you can replicate the nice rubbered track on a normal race. But in TT you can close the cooling to 0, blow the engine, restart. In TT you can drive very low pressures, overheat the tyres, restart. Close the brake ducts to 0, survive a couple of laps, restart. Open the wastegate to max on turbo cars. All sorts of silly exploits.

Thatīs why the fastest times are achieved there even if these sweet track conditions can be reproduced.

cluck
21-10-2015, 13:16
I have 0 interest in leaderboards. I race.

Iīm not sharing any opinions, but laptimes, power outputs, pictures... measurable stuff. Everything said here is backed up with evidence.
I donīt say Formula A lacks stopping power because "I think so" but because I canīt lock up a tyre and because I need to brake much earlier than real cars do.
I donīt say Formula B has too much downforce because "I think so" but because I can go as fast as cars that should have much more power and grip.I have regularly locked up the FA tyres, once the brakes were up to temp.

Again, the Formula B car does not exist in real life, so comparing it's time to real cars is utterly pointless. I don't care what might, or might not, have been the perception of these cars before release, the simple truth is that they are fictional, loosely based on some real-world open-seaters. Either drive the cars accepting that fact, or don't drive them if you object to their performance so much :).


Of course you can replicate the nice rubbered track on a normal race. But in TT you can close the cooling to 0, blow the engine, restart. In TT you can drive very low pressures, overheat the tyres, restart. Close the brake ducts to 0, survive a couple of laps, restart. Open the wastegate to max on turbo cars. All sorts of silly exploits.

Thatīs why the fastest times are achieved there even if these sweet track conditions can be reproduced.With a default setup, I am still regularly faster in a race than in time trial. That's the point I was trying to get across. A 1m23 time is still a very nice time round that track, I'll give you that :).

QPRLad
21-10-2015, 13:28
Of course you can replicate the nice rubbered track on a normal race. But in TT you can close the cooling to 0, blow the engine, restart. In TT you can drive very low pressures, overheat the tyres, restart. Close the brake ducts to 0, survive a couple of laps, restart. Open the wastegate to max on turbo cars. All sorts of silly exploits.

Thatīs why the fastest times are achieved there even if these sweet track conditions can be reproduced.

So do that with you Formula B car and go faster than the TT times already set. You need to remember in Practice the Cut Track rules are relaxed so the chances are you're just exploiting the rules to gain even more time.

Until you make a 1'23 on the same track & conditions as others, you can call it a fair test. Even if you do complete a a 1'23, the 5-10 seconds gap between FA & FB still stands.

Mahjik
21-10-2015, 13:31
Guys, if SMS wants to change anything in this space, they will. If they don't want to, they won't. It's that simple.

AB_Attack
21-10-2015, 14:04
Now would anyone like to comment on the use of a tubular chassis for the Formula C...

*quiet* No... no opinions there, no sir. *cough*

220618
220619


(FA and FB are fun to race :D)

Schnizz58
21-10-2015, 14:26
Sorry for my confusion. Wouldn't the lowest angle be 0.0 or -0.1 ?? Run front and backs at that?
FA fronts go from -4.9 to 0.0
FA rears go from -3.9 to 0.0
Not on all cars but yes run whatever the minimum camber is, especially the rears. You can use a little camber in front if you like. Camber does work, it just doesn't have a big enough effect on contact patch and it has too large of an effect on drag (rolling resistance).

hkraft300
21-10-2015, 21:03
Everybody during the development phase, including WMD members, talked about the FA as a "fictional 2011 F1 car". Not a "fictional high performance single seater". You can even find posts with WMD members boasting about how close Rene Rast times in the FA were to the real life times from the real car. They WERE trying to get (and sell us) fidelity to the real thing.

So you're complaining about a fictional car for not having true-to-life specs/performance...?
And you know yourself that the car was intended to be, and IS a "made up" car and that the Formula A is NOT Formula 1...
How many pages is this thread? Did you all get ever so gently, masterfully trolled?
Props Doge. Nice one mate.
Unless of course I've totally misunderstood the post I've quoted you from.

By the way, anyone notice the RWD and Marek LMP cars ? I can't find anything on Google about their WEC results...

Invincible
21-10-2015, 21:15
By the way, anyone notice the RWD and Marek LMP cars ? I can't find anything on Google about their WEC results...

My sister (who watches most of the LMP races ) thought they were real and wondered why she never noticed them on tv. :D
And I would love to see some actual aerodynamics tests in a wind tunnel for those two models. Or see how they would drive in real life if they were build just like their digital counterpart.

John Hargreaves
21-10-2015, 22:20
I have regularly locked up the FA tyres, once the brakes were up to temp.

Absolutely, factually correct. You can even control which wheel locks up by loading up the opposite side.

hkraft300
21-10-2015, 22:22
I know right
The RWD and Marek (the latter which gets little credit but in race pace isn't slower than the RWD at all tracks except Le Mans and maybe Monza) are awesome, both P1 and P2 cars of each marque.
Certainly better looking than most (at least the factory) LMP efforts!
For fantasy game creations, the SMS/WMD Formula and LMP cars are as good as they get.

Ps invincible, your sister is awesome.

Still a little off-topic, but I believe DRS in real life and in-game are an utter gimmick. They do nothing for racing. Active aerodynamics need to be properly implemented not just for the sake of "the spectacle". DRS does nothing for the sport in fact takes away any need for racing skill as you just pull up behind a car, hit the DRS button and away you go.
I can lock up the FA brakes too. 95% pressure in car tuning if I don't back off the brakes <150kmh I smoke the tires.

John Hargreaves
21-10-2015, 22:25
Agreed, never use DRS myself, prefer to do it the old fashioned way

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
21-10-2015, 23:04
I get what Doge is saying about DRS. It's a pain and it's "unsafe" (not really unsafe in a sim, but would be IRL) to have free use during races. It was even unsafe just in practice/qualifying in F1 in 2011, which is why it was only free use for p/q in 2011, not 2012 or since.

The problem with just ignoring it is that it's unquestionably faster if you use it well. Set rear wing to 0 in FA and you still get less drag with DRS open (and less downforce). The next guy is going to use it if he really wants to win, so you have to if you want to win. True IRL and in sims.

havocc
22-10-2015, 09:09
I get what Doge is saying about DRS. It's a pain and it's "unsafe" (not really unsafe in a sim, but would be IRL) to have free use during races. It was even unsafe just in practice/qualifying in F1 in 2011, which is why it was only free use for p/q in 2011, not 2012 or since.

The problem with just ignoring it is that it's unquestionably faster if you use it well. Set rear wing to 0 in FA and you still get less drag with DRS open (and less downforce). The next guy is going to use it if he really wants to win, so you have to if you want to win. True IRL and in sims.

No rl F1 driver with a healty brain would do 130R at suzuka with open DRS like we've seen during the TT event, maybe Verstappen :D

N0body Of The Goat
22-10-2015, 09:24
I get what Doge is saying about DRS. It's a pain and it's "unsafe" (not really unsafe in a sim, but would be IRL) to have free use during races. It was even unsafe just in practice/qualifying in F1 in 2011, which is why it was only free use for p/q in 2011, not 2012 or since.

The problem with just ignoring it is that it's unquestionably faster if you use it well. Set rear wing to 0 in FA and you still get less drag with DRS open (and less downforce). The next guy is going to use it if he really wants to win, so you have to if you want to win. True IRL and in sims.

I hope you and everyone else here is aware that zero wing DOES NOT mean zero downforce, except for the Formula C (IIRC)? For all but one car, zero wing is simply the lowest setting we can choose.

The Formula A took inspiration from the real life 2011 F1 car. Some, including myself, did ask for DRS zones in races (leaving DRS free to use in pre-race sessions, just like real life F1 2011). But it was decided by SMS to leave DRS free to use in race as well, to favour those with the biggest testicles. It was possibly also done to make the car more fictional and thereby reduce potential license issues.

The Formula B took inspiration from Formula Superleague.

The Formula C took inspiration from Formula 3 IIRC, at one point during development it had some sort of limited power boost, but this was removed.

havocc
22-10-2015, 09:37
From my knowledge drs effect is the same regardless of rear wing, for example if you have 15 rear wing and open drs your top speed will be the same as if you have 1 rear wing with open drs, because of this drs is not very useful for overtaking at tracks like monza where cars already run a low df setup...

Raven403
22-10-2015, 11:02
Of course you canīt help, devs can by improving whatīs wrong.

PCARS is still the best console racing game avaliable, so I canīt go "play something else I enjoy". Iīm stuck with this so might as well try to make it better.

There is absolutely nothing WRONG with them, YOU just think things should be different. I still dont get trying to use real life "Evidence" to try and prove a point about fictional cars.........

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
22-10-2015, 13:56
I hope you and everyone else here is aware that zero wing DOES NOT mean zero downforce, except for the Formula C (IIRC)? For all but one car, zero wing is simply the lowest setting we can choose.
That knowledge was heavily implied by my post: "Less downforce than 0 wing" (para) implies that 0 wing has downforce, hence downforce is not zero.


No rl F1 driver with a healty brain would do 130R at suzuka with open DRS like we've seen during the TT event, maybe Verstappen Not on purpose, but given enough hotlaps with people opening and closing DRS several times, it would happen.

FACT0RY PIL0T
25-10-2015, 23:35
So has there been any updates to the F-A, F-B at all since release?

I don't know but it seems there has been, and the more i drive the F-A the more im like starting to feel its time to look for something else to go drive and get off my rear end and build a new PC, because all the other cars suck, the zero camber setup sucks, and It doesnt feel like were getting anywhere with updates.

hkraft300
25-10-2015, 23:42
So has there been any updates to the F-A, F-B at all since release?

I don't know but it seems there has been, and the more i drive the F-A the more im like starting to feel its time to look for something else to go drive and get off my rear end and build a new PC, because all the other cars suck, the zero camber setup sucks, and It doesnt feel like were getting anywhere with updates.

Don't despair, friend!
Formula cars got tire compound updates on patch 3/4 can't remember. There is a tire model update in testing as we speak, which negates the zero camber exploit, and brings much wanted and more realistic temp/pressure/sway bar/camber and toe effects on tires. It was in testing before patch 5 release so hopefully it'll hit us on patch 6 :)

FACT0RY PIL0T
26-10-2015, 00:17
Don't despair, friend!
Formula cars got tire compound updates on patch 3/4 can't remember. There is a tire model update in testing as we speak, which negates the zero camber exploit, and brings much wanted and more realistic temp/pressure/sway bar/camber and toe effects on tires. It was in testing before patch 5 release so hopefully it'll hit us on patch 6 :)

Hmmm well ill be on the fence waiting to see, i really hope they dont go the wrong direction.

Pappa_Stig
26-10-2015, 00:59
No rl F1 driver with a healty brain would do 130R at suzuka with open DRS like we've seen during the TT event, maybe Verstappen :D

Actually Vettel took 130R flat with DRS open during his pole lap in 2011...

Edit: Also in 2012, Vettel's pole lap had him going through 130R with the DRS open. It was banned outside of DRS zones in quali and practice due to all drivers complaining they were being forced to open it in fast corners to get the best lap times, which was incredibly dangerous.

Pappa_Stig
26-10-2015, 01:46
Doubtful there will be any improvements in this space for pCARS1.



That is a replay limitation. The full telemetry isn't exported with replays so certain elements aren't triggered like they were during live driving. There was some discussion to see if SMS could increase the data in the current replay system without having to re-design it, but there hasn't been much word since. Likely something that may require too much change (and also the replay sizes need to fit on the consoles).

Thanks mate I appreciate the reply :)

Doge
26-10-2015, 12:07
There is absolutely nothing WRONG with them, YOU just think things should be different. I still dont get trying to use real life "Evidence" to try and prove a point about fictional cars.........

Oh yes, nothing wrong, it is just me.

The FB medium is faster and more durable than the soft, but thatīs not a problem, just me. The medium is faster if you run it overheated and with extremely low pressures, but thatīs just me. The default setups are utter nonsense with 0 attention to detail (2nd gear on the FA, steering ratio on the FB, long etc) that makes a lot of people think the cars are poorly done, but thatīs just me. The FA lacks stopping power and can barely lock a brake with 100% pressure, but thatīs just me.

Iīm not going to insist on the fidelity thing. Before being released the tune was "Oh my, so accurate, look how close these manufactured times we recorded are to the real ones". Now itīs fictional and we shouldnīt expect fidelity depite the blatant attempts to get as close as possible to 2011 F1s (liveries, tyre supplier, aero details ONLY present in that yearīs cars, energy recovery, sound, power output...) without going over copyright limits. PFFT. Try selling that to someone else that knew of PCARS on release day, no one that was hyped and followed this project all through will buy it.

BTW, Iīm going to give you a great idea for future DLC, so generous I am... create a new single seater, call it Formula S or something, put a V10 on it and the mid 2000īs F1 aero package. You spend 0$ on copyright, only development. You release a car everyone will want to drive, you release a car needed to compete on leaderboards (plenty of people seem to like that).

You make money and get another chance to undo the previous mistakes and create an enjoyable open wheel platform to race on without half baked DRS rules (these cars didnīt have it so...). You get another chance to create a solid default setup that people will enjoy out of the box.

Another plus: this time you donīt set the target to be accurate to any particular season so you actually get leeway to adjust performance without having to be dishonest if it doesnīt go too well.

Raven403
26-10-2015, 12:20
Oh yes, nothing wrong, it is just me.

The FB medium is faster and more durable than the soft, but thatīs not a problem, just me. The medium is faster if you run it overheated and with extremely low pressures, but thatīs just me. The default setups are utter nonsense with 0 attention to detail (2nd gear on the FA, steering ratio on the FB, long etc) that makes a lot of people think the cars are poorly done, but thatīs just me.

Iīm not going to insist on the fidelity thing. Before being released the tune was "Oh my, so accurate, look how close these manufactured times we recorded are to the real ones". Now itīs fictional and we shouldnīt expect fidelity depite the blatant attempts to get as close as possible to 2011 F1s (liveries, tyre supplier, aero details ONLY present in that yearīs cars, energy recovery, sound, power output...) without going over copyright limits. PFFT. Try selling that to someone else that knew of PCARS on release day, no one that was hyped and followed this project all through will buy it.

BTW, Iīm going to give you a great idea for future DLC, so generous I am... create a new single seater, call it Formula S or something, put a V10 on it and the mid 2000īs F1 aero package. You spend 0$ on copyright, only development. You release a car everyone will want to drive, you release a car needed to compete on leaderboards (plenty of people seem to like that).

You make money and get another chance to undo the previous mistakes and create an enjoyable open wheel platform to race on without half baked DRS rules (these cars didnīt have it so...). You get another chance to create a solid default setup that people will enjoy out of the box.

Do you have multiple personalities or somethin? Who is "Alot of people" because you seem to be vastly outnumbered in just this thread.

Fact is you have some points you brought up, which is fine, the way you've gone about discussing them will likely lead to NONE of them being addressed. I agree there are some problems with the Tire model in places, as it pertains to the difference in compounds and temps, and how cold tires suddenly mean they're made of plastic or something, but I dont think the title of the Thread is accurate at all. Formula A/B Questions and Concerns mightve been a better choice. But being insufferable in your approach wont help anything.

AB_Attack
26-10-2015, 13:26
Fact is you have some points you brought up, which is fine, the way you've gone about discussing them will likely lead to NONE of them being addressed.
How childish would that be? Regarding the tone, a whole bunch of people answering this thread in a close-minded way really contributed to that.

Raven403
26-10-2015, 14:14
How childish would that be? Regarding the tone, a whole bunch of people answering this thread in a close-minded way really contributed to that.

Meaning the issues will get buried beneath the vitriol of the thread. Maybe they've already taken note, who knows, only people with Blue names could answer that. Yeah, tone breeds similar tone, and it keeps going in circles

FACT0RY PIL0T
28-10-2015, 17:11
Well I wish the Formula A didnt have the wheel connected to the rear wheels for grip, like 1/3 steering = 1/3 less rear grip,* at least thats the way it feels, and isn't right in my OP.

Go drive Hockenheim, and Hockenheim national which I think really showcases in my Op how bad the tires, brakes, suspension really are on this model. The suspension just caves under on the bumps, and weight tranfers like its undersprung, and under damped.

Even with a really decent setup there its just all over the map for grip, and just not connected to the track at all no matter what leaving no confidence in driving it, and thats pretty much at every track now.

ElMister
01-11-2015, 17:58
... create a new single seater, call it Formula S or something, put a V10 on it and the mid 2000īs F1 aero package.

Yes, please. :D

ElMister
01-11-2015, 18:14
Do you have multiple personalities or somethin? Who is "Alot of people" because you seem to be vastly outnumbered in just this thread.

I think those other people already have given up the hope for some change in the game and moved on to something else that's stable, constantly improving - and well, fun.

I share the same concern as Doge. Comparing the FA car against other driving simulator's fictional F1 cars I really feel ashamed that I enjoyed the FA car once. It's that much of a difference and it shouldn't be acceptable.

Now I found the overheating tyres bug on the FB quite a while ago but I didn't report it because I knew that it wouldn't be fixed. How can something that obvious even slip through the testings? Hopefully this will be fixed and I will be proven wrong but oh well... It's not my problem really, I'm not the one who's going to lose money on the next release...

Doge
02-11-2015, 10:14
I think those other people already have given up the hope for some change in the game and moved on to something else that's stable, constantly improving - and well, fun.

I share the same concern as Doge. Comparing the FA car against other driving simulator's fictional F1 cars I really feel ashamed that I enjoyed the FA car once. It's that much of a difference and it shouldn't be acceptable.

Now I found the overheating tyres bug on the FB quite a while ago but I didn't report it because I knew that it wouldn't be fixed. How can something that obvious even slip through the testings? Hopefully this will be fixed and I will be proven wrong but oh well... It's not my problem really, I'm not the one who's going to lose money on the next release...

I had to try, I really thought there would be interest to improve the current situation.

But I guess you did the right thing not bothering when you bumped into this, in the end it really was a waste of time.

hkraft300
02-11-2015, 10:25
I had to try, I really thought there would be interest to improve the current situation.

But I guess you did the right thing not bothering when you bumped into this, in the end it really was a waste of time.

Improvements are never a waste of time.
I personally disagree with DRS, period.
SMS need to get their hands on a real F1 car to do some testing and measurements to bring their model closer. Can't imagine that'd be an easy task, to be honest. Sniff around at track days and hunt down an owner, perhaps? But then there may be licensing...

Doge
02-11-2015, 10:43
No, no, I meant reporting that stuff was a waste of time. You know, first itīs all a lie, then you have to gather energy and time to put evidence together, then itīs not a problem anymore, etc. You donīt get anywhere.

Of course improvements arenīt a waste of time! I would be over the Moon if they improved these cars, or even introduced a new one that was good. They were supposed to be one of the highlights for me and Iīm barely touching them. Itīs a bit like the go-karts fiasco.

ElMister
02-11-2015, 16:13
I had to try, I really thought there would be interest to improve the current situation.

But I guess you did the right thing not bothering when you bumped into this, in the end it really was a waste of time.

I admire you for putting down effort into this, I really do. Sometimes you just got to experience the neglect yourself.

ElMister
02-11-2015, 16:29
SMS need to get their hands on a real F1 car to do some testing and measurements to bring their model closer. Can't imagine that'd be an easy task, to be honest. Sniff around at track days and hunt down an owner, perhaps? But then there may be licensing...

What they need to do is to study the real driving simulators F1 cars, how they work, handle etc. Something that would make the FA so much better would be if they'd just take the FB aspects and make it at the pace of the FA car. A quick and easy temporary solution.

In my opinion, the problem with the FA car is that it's really, really, really, really, really easy to drive. You never really feel like you're on the limit. It's practically impossible to countersteer an oversteer (once it actually happens), the detail of the tyres vulnerability is non-existent - and so on...
One minor thing that also bothers me is that there's no visual effect on how you tune the car. Put 0.0 camber on the front tyres, still look the same when you put maximum negative camber. Ride height looks the same no matter how much rake you have. Flatspotted tyres/tyre wear (if that even exist in the game, probably not) is not visually seen or is felt through the FFB.

I gather all this crucial critique from driving on rFactor2 for about 3 hrs.

This is unacceptable for a so called simulator and if you disagree I really hope that you aren't in contact with the game.

cluck
02-11-2015, 16:40
What they need to do is to study the real driving simulators F1 cars, how they work, handle etc. Something that would make the FA so much better would be if they'd just take the FB aspects and make it at the pace of the FA car. A quick and easy temporary solution.

In my opinion, the problem with the FA car is that it's really, really, really, really, really easy to drive. You never really feel like you're on the limit. It's practically impossible to countersteer an oversteer (once it actually happens), the detail of the tyres vulnerability is non-existent - and so on...
One minor thing that also bothers me is that there's no visual effect on how you tune the car. Put 0.0 camber on the front tyres, still look the same when you put maximum negative camber. Ride height looks the same no matter how much rake you have. Flatspotted tyres/tyre wear (if that even exist in the game, probably not) is not visually seen or is felt through the FFB.

I gather all this crucial critique from driving on rFactor2 for about 3 hrs.

This is unacceptable for a so called simulator and if you disagree I really hope that you aren't in contact with the game.It's only unacceptable if that's what you believe a simulator must have :). Does the lack of a visual clue to the camber/toe etc take away any of the 'feel' of driving the car? No, none whatsoever.

For the record, visual changes to the car setup are not present in Project CARS. They haven't ever been and I believe I'm correct in saying that they won't ever be. Yes, it would be nice if it was there, but it isn't and, for me, it takes nothing away from my personal enjoyment of the game (although I accept that it might not be the same for others) :).

Schnizz58
02-11-2015, 16:43
Now I found the overheating tyres bug on the FB quite a while ago but I didn't report it because I knew that it wouldn't be fixed. How can something that obvious even slip through the testings? Hopefully this will be fixed and I will be proven wrong but oh well... It's not my problem really, I'm not the one who's going to lose money on the next release...
I just went through an entire FB season and never had a problem with overheating tires. So it doesn't seem that obvious to me.

ElMister
02-11-2015, 17:13
I just went through an entire FB season and never had a problem with overheating tires. So it doesn't seem that obvious to me.

I think that you've misunderstood what I wrote, perhaps because of my poor explanation. But if you track back a bit you can read that Doge mentioned this.

What I mean about overheating the tyre (Yiro medium compound) on the FB is that it's beneficial, which it shouldn't be. I usually put my tyre pressure on 1.02 front and 1.00 rear. This will give me better acceleration and grip and no extra tyre wear.

Schnizz58
02-11-2015, 17:16
I think that you've misunderstood what I wrote, perhaps because of my poor explanation. But if you track back a bit you can read that Doge mentioned this.

What I mean about overheating the tyre (Yiro medium compound) on the FB is that it's beneficial, which it shouldn't be. I usually put my tyre pressure on 1.02 front and 1.00 rear. This will give me better acceleration and grip and no extra tyre wear.
Thanks for the explanation. There is something wrong with the mediums for FB. When I try to use them, I get very bad oscillation in the wheel to the point that it nearly shakes itself out of my hands.

ElMister
02-11-2015, 17:17
It's only unacceptable if that's what you believe a simulator must have :). Does the lack of a visual clue to the camber/toe etc take away any of the 'feel' of driving the car? No, none whatsoever.

For the record, visual changes to the car setup are not present in Project CARS. They haven't ever been and I believe I'm correct in saying that they won't ever be. Yes, it would be nice if it was there, but it isn't and, for me, it takes nothing away from my personal enjoyment of the game (although I accept that it might not be the same for others) :).

The visuals isn't that big of a deal to me, hence why I mentioned it as a minor thing. But as this game is promoted to have highly detailed features you would expect it to be in the game.
What really bothers me is how godly awful the car is - and that my friend, kills the feel of driving the car.

ElMister
02-11-2015, 17:21
Thanks for the explanation. There is something wrong with the mediums for FB. When I try to use them, I get very bad oscillation in the wheel to the point that it nearly shakes itself out of my hands.

Give the credit to Doge.
Just make the car really stiff and safe. It'll go like it's on a rail.

Raven403
02-11-2015, 18:29
hey just a quick Question about this. Please point me in the right direction if its been answered. When I select Auto By Weather in the FB the AI are all on Yiro Mediums, while im on the Farretti Softs. Why is that

hkraft300
02-11-2015, 23:10
hey just a quick Question about this. Please point me in the right direction if its been answered. When I select Auto By Weather in the FB the AI are all on Yiro Mediums, while im on the Farretti Softs. Why is that

Auto by weather was adjusted in an earlier patch to give the softest/ highest grip compound.
Softest, most aggressive tire for every car in the dry and wets in the wet.

Raven403
03-11-2015, 12:25
Auto by weather was adjusted in an earlier patch to give the softest/ highest grip compound.
Softest, most aggressive tire for every car in the dry and wets in the wet.

Yeah no i get that. But I was always under the impression the AI used the same AbW tires, but they are on Yiros, not Farrettis

hkraft300
03-11-2015, 12:58
Being on a separate physics model, I'm not sure how much of an impact it makes for AI to be on different compounds. Even dry/wet situations.

Raven403
03-11-2015, 13:02
Being on a separate physics model, I'm not sure how much of an impact it makes for AI to be on different compounds. Even dry/wet situations.

Not sure it makes much difference, could be they programed it that way to compensate for wear? I dont know, either way its strange that their AbW compound in the Medium and not soft, its the only instance I've

seen of it being that way....