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MAARTEN
20-10-2015, 17:44
This game is one of the best iv'e ever played all categories. I have a lot of fun driving around circuits in solo, MP and time trials.
I know there is some bugs in the game but apart from others i don't make a big deal of it, the good things in this game overshines the bugs by astronomical proportions. But... there is just one thing that i can't stop disturbing me at :)

The tire-smoke is not very realistic and it kills the immersion when looking at replays. It's the segments or "puffs" of smoke that should stay together more as a complete string of smoke.

I invited a good friend over to have a look at my new racing-rig and it was his first time trying Project CARS. He really liked it and said that it was a proper racing-game but he also was disturbed by the funny looking smoke-effects. I didn't even say anything about it.

So please SMS, look into this and enhance the tire smoke-effect in future updates. You guys did a awesome job enhancing the raineffect on windscreen so next step is smoke-effects ;)

This is how it looks today. It works, but could be improved.
220564

This is how it should look, more compact/dense and one cloud.
220565

Scuderia Paul
20-10-2015, 17:48
I think rendering volumetric tyre smoke would be CPU heavy and that power is better utiled elsewhere.

konnos
20-10-2015, 17:48
I agree :) It's not something I look at on purpose, but it looks wrong. Still better than other games, but there's room for improvement.

Raven403
20-10-2015, 17:51
Its already been said a couple times. Early in Dev they HAD much thicker volumetric smoke, but as was already stated its CPU heavy and sacrifices were made for Console performance.

MAARTEN
20-10-2015, 17:59
Its already been said a couple times. Early in Dev they HAD much thicker volumetric smoke, but as was already stated its CPU heavy and sacrifices were made for Console performance.

That came to my mind, the consoles. I get it. Perhaps there should be a graphic option for PC with better hardware to get better tire-smoke.

I must say that the tire-smoke isn't something to ignore. The tire-smoke is something that really shows how you drive the car and should not be forgotten. When racing against several cars you also see the smoke during the race so it's not just in replay.

Blackers722
20-10-2015, 18:13
Im probably going to get shot for saying this, but why don't Pcars try and make the smoke similar to Forza 6, I own both games, I play Pcars when i want to race and not under-steer and get absolutely obliterated by other opponents and other people playing online. The tyre smoke is the only thing i really like in F6 that project cars doesnt do.

apexatspeed
20-10-2015, 19:37
I'd rather not have my frame rate drop every time there is a lot of smoke on screen. Maybe that is just me though.

http://www.richardcyoung.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hillary-clinton-shrug.jpg

marcdxn
20-10-2015, 20:25
I'd rather not have my frame rate drop every time there is a lot of smoke on screen. Maybe that is just me though.

http://www.richardcyoung.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hillary-clinton-shrug.jpg


Or... it could be added as an option you can notch up in the graphics options for those out there who have capable systems.
It's not like it has to forced on everyone if it was added this way.

Just saying :encouragement:

MAARTEN
20-10-2015, 20:28
Or... it could be added as an option you can notch up in the graphics options for those out there who have capable systems.
It's not like it has to forced on everyone if it was added this way.

Just saying :encouragement:

Exactly, a option to turn on "insanely-looking smoke-effects" for high-end systems would be a nice way to go :)

John Hargreaves
20-10-2015, 20:58
When the smoke effects were first introduced we were all really excited because they looked gorgeous, but as stated above, the devs had to dial it back a bit for console performance. It wasn't that bad a hit on PC though, so I agree it would be nice to have as a feature.

VanquishedVantage
20-10-2015, 21:13
When the smoke effects were first introduced we were all really excited because they looked gorgeous, but as stated above, the devs had to dial it back a bit for console performance. It wasn't that bad a hit on PC though, so I agree it would be nice to have as a feature.
Yeah, the console smoke kind of looks like snow, quoting ThatDudeInBlue.

biggbaddwolf
20-10-2015, 21:59
Best I remember the Gran Turismo 6 game had good tire smoke, and if it can be done with a PS3 it seems they could do it with the PS4, and XBox One, but IMO tire smoke is just a small point.

Schnizz58
20-10-2015, 22:09
Best I remember the Gran Turismo 6 game had good tire smoke, and if it can be done with a PS3 it seems they could do it with the PS4, and XBox One, but IMO tire smoke is just a small point.
Agreed. Not really a major issue for me (could be for others I guess). When I mess up I usually don't even see the smoke unless I go into a spin and in that case, I hardly need any smoke to tell me that I screwed up.

John Hargreaves
20-10-2015, 22:14
I Think it's easy to forget just how much of the processing budget goes on the tyre physics. It's so intensive, there's less than you might imagine left over for details that are less important. Just the priorities of the game really.

Schnizz58
20-10-2015, 22:24
I Think it's easy to forget just how much of the processing budget goes on the tyre physics. It's so intensive, there's less than you might imagine left over for details that are less important. Just the priorities of the game really.
On one hand I love the hardcore simulation attitude they took in game design. However sometimes I wonder if they went too far when it uses so much processing power that there's no cycles left over for things like sound and realistic AI physics. Some of those less important details are actually pretty important too.

Umer Ahmad
20-10-2015, 22:26
I doubt this will get more attention. It is what it is.

TMoney
20-10-2015, 23:45
For the record, here's what it used to look like (when there was a PC master race)....

220576

220574

220575

Can't say I don't miss it myself.

hkraft300
21-10-2015, 01:23
More tire smoke. Because RadBul.

With a little wheel spin Ye there's bigger all smoke.
But I took the old Merc tank on Sonoma for a giggle. It skids everywhere. Ended up doing mad donuts near the pit entrance area and next minute I was surrounded in a cloud ;) it does build up. Eventually.

Cheesenium
21-10-2015, 03:50
I do miss the old tire smoke but the performance hit was terrible on my PC. It was mostly turned off even back in alpha.

Back in those days, the current SETA tire model isnt even in the game yet where pcars was using an upgraded version of Shift 2 tire physics. The current tire model is considerably more demanding than the old Shift 2 model.

Phaze91
21-10-2015, 04:26
I think the smoke effects could use an improvement, but not if it requires a lot of performance. Maybe an animation based system could be implemented.

SUBGTRACER
21-10-2015, 04:43
Ok I know I am speaking of a completely different game in a different time......

I remember when I was playing nascar 2003 I think it was for the first time , there was a accident on the second banking corner, maybe 200m in front of me at Daytona , I was shocked when all I saw was a huge cloud of smoke in front of me and no track to be seen because of it , then the thought was I'm just going to hit the throttle and hope for the best.......I made it through , pure luck with cars spinning and crashing ...................The most exciting experience I have ever had in a racing game to date .

I wish the devs originally dropped the overall car count a little and added some better effects such as the smoke and damage , it just hasn't got the excitement there .....I'ts missing something...:(

mkstatto
21-10-2015, 08:55
Off on a slight tangent, the spark effect really bugs me in this game for some reason.

Yorkie065
21-10-2015, 09:37
I do miss the old smoke effects. They used to tank the frame rates but they were very nice and pretty.


Off on a slight tangent, the spark effect really bugs me in this game for some reason.

Yeh. The effect is pretty simple with just a few large sparks, and it seems to be rather laggy like it's at 20FPS or something. F1 2013 with the classic content did awesome sparks and bottoming out effects. Hopefully they can produce something for PCars 2.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwfFUsw_G8

TrevorAustin
21-10-2015, 09:42
Ok I know I am speaking of a completely different game in a different time......

I remember when I was playing nascar 2003 I think it was for the first time , there was a accident on the second banking corner, maybe 200m in front of me at Daytona , I was shocked when all I saw was a huge cloud of smoke in front of me and no track to be seen because of it , then the thought was I'm just going to hit the throttle and hope for the best.......I made it through , pure luck with cars spinning and crashing ...................The most exciting experience I have ever had in a racing game to date .

I wish the devs originally dropped the overall car count a little and added some better effects such as the smoke and damage , it just hasn't got the excitement there .....I'ts missing something...:(

Isn't that the script for a Tom Cruise film:)

MAARTEN
21-10-2015, 09:59
For the record, here's what it used to look like (when there was a PC master race)....

220576

220574

220575

Can't say I don't miss it myself.

OMG! Really stunning smoke-effects :encouragement: as many other graphical options it could be possible to enable this amount of smoke IF you got a high-end system.

John Hargreaves
21-10-2015, 12:10
They should build motherboards with a cpu version of SLI, so you could just drop in another processor like you can pop in another graphics card or more memory.
Yes, I know it's not that simple, and it would never work properly, but it would still be cool to be able to do it.

Flihp
21-10-2015, 12:27
They should build motherboards with a cpu version of SLI, so you could just drop in another processor like you can pop in another graphics card or more memory.
Yes, I know it's not that simple, and it would never work properly, but it would still be cool to be able to do it.

here.
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z10PED8_WS/

Mascot
21-10-2015, 12:46
NFS ProStreet says hi from 2007..!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EN57K2WDuw

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 13:01
NFS ProStreet says hi from 2007..!

Well, if you only need the power of a Pentium 1 for your physics calculations, you have more than enough headroom for those fancy effects. ;)

DJBLITZKRIEG
21-10-2015, 13:54
I couldn't agree more. For me the annoying aspect is how quickly the tires seem to light up. Any sudden load and puff goes the smoke. It should be dialed down.

cluck
21-10-2015, 14:22
NFS ProStreet says hi from 2007..!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EN57K2WDuwTrouble is, imagine producing that on 16, 32 or even 64 cars (because you just know that there would be some people complaining if the tyre smoke was different on the AI cars) and then dynamically lighting and shadowing it (which is probably the most important factor). Then you get some idea of why the smoke that was in development didn't make it to the end product.

Would it be nice if there was nicer smoke? Of course, what's not to like about something that's better. Do I want something else to be sacrificed in order to achieve that? No thanks :).

mkstatto
21-10-2015, 14:25
Cluck has got me thinking, I can't ever remember seeing a puff of smoke from an AI car. Is this just me?

cluck
21-10-2015, 14:31
Cluck has got me thinking, I can't ever remember seeing a puff of smoke from an AI car. Is this just me?Possibly because they're better drivers than you ;).

To be honest, I don't know, it's not something I watch out for.

MAARTEN
21-10-2015, 16:14
I couldn't agree more. For me the annoying aspect is how quickly the tires seem to light up. Any sudden load and puff goes the smoke. It should be dialed down.

Actually you got a point there, it starts to smoke instantly when tires loose grip. Should be some visible smoke at first (but more compact) and if you really do a burnout or a very heavy drift with wheelspin for a longer time it should be more smoke and even more dense.

I understand you guys saying that it is performance-heavy and i believe you. Because of the console-market the developers had to scale down the tire-smoke. But as i said, it would be a nice option to turn on heavier tire-smoke if you got a highend-PC with killer graphics card.
On the consoles the performance-settings in graphics is not even available to alter (graphics locked)

marcdxn
21-10-2015, 18:26
Actually you got a point there, it starts to smoke instantly when tires loose grip. Should be some visible smoke at first (but more compact) and if you really do a burnout or a very heavy drift with wheelspin for a longer time it should be more smoke and even more dense.

I understand you guys saying that it is performance-heavy and i believe you. Because of the console-market the developers had to scale down the tire-smoke. But as i said, it would be a nice option to turn on heavier tire-smoke if you got a highend-PC with killer graphics card.
On the consoles the performance-settings in graphics is not even available to alter (graphics locked)

The other thing regards graphics options is that it doesn't really need to make sense for todays cards, many times recently i have loaded up an older game i have had in my library for years that when purchased i had to play with 'low' or 'medium' and with todays hardware its refreshing it re-run the same game with everything knocked up to ultra that just wasn't possible when it was released without a ridiculous setup.

John Hargreaves
21-10-2015, 20:05
I've had tire smoke coming from AI opponents, it's definitely in there

bcredeur97
21-10-2015, 22:32
I would love the old smoke. PC platform is much more capable and it could simply be disabled for consoles (With a choice to disable it for weak PC's as well!). We should demand it back.

Unless of course there is a way to enable it (if it is still there, but hidden) into the game via a config file?

SUBGTRACER
21-10-2015, 22:55
The option would have been nice actually , surely for the drifting inclined people ( which is not me ) you could use one car or 2 with a friend and still have some decent amount of smoke surely as you don't have 40 cars on track .

mkstatto
22-10-2015, 09:45
I've had tire smoke coming from AI opponents, it's definitely in there

Maybe its a Xbox thing then or in fact the early stages of me going crazy!:cool:

flybikes
22-10-2015, 10:27
NFS ProStreet says hi from 2007..!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EN57K2WDuw


That effects are VERY BAD! That's not smoke. It's a cloud! It's the cloud that bugs bunny do when is running.

You guys are creating a problem that doesn't exist.

Gavin Thomas
22-10-2015, 10:29
I think rendering volumetric tyre smoke would be CPU heavy and that power is better utiled elsewhere.

How CPU heavy can it possibly get?

Need For Speed Pro Street had great smoke effects, probably one of the best parts of the game.


https://youtu.be/sowzycM45Ig


If they can manage decent effects on xbox 360 grade hardware, surely SMS can manage it on "next Gen" hardware.

Raven403
22-10-2015, 10:55
How CPU heavy can it possibly get?

Need For Speed Pro Street had great smoke effects, probably one of the best parts of the game.


https://youtu.be/sowzycM45Ig


If they can manage decent effects on xbox 360 grade hardware, surely SMS can manage it on "next Gen" hardware.

Pro Street didnt have anywhere near as Complex a tire Physics system, its been said over and over, the tire physics eat alot of the processing power

Cheesenium
22-10-2015, 11:19
How CPU heavy can it possibly get?

Need For Speed Pro Street had great smoke effects, probably one of the best parts of the game.


https://youtu.be/sowzycM45Ig


If they can manage decent effects on xbox 360 grade hardware, surely SMS can manage it on "next Gen" hardware.

Prostreet did not have to support dynamic lighting, rain, simplified handling physics along with less cars on grid and lower model quality.

TMoney
22-10-2015, 17:01
I still think Race07 after the update is about as good as it gets. Looks fabulous.

MAARTEN
22-10-2015, 19:00
Don't know how it works in the background for calculating smoke, if that calculation is more heavy for the CPU i got about 50% to spare on my setup. My CPU-load is ≈50% at the most when running in rain, many cars at the track etc.

So please SMS, let us have a option to enable "the early-build-smoke-effect" :)