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Doge
20-10-2015, 21:45
Just done a bit of preparation for an upcoming event in which weīll be Racing in Willow Springs in road cars. People were wondering if track tyres (the Farreti ones) would go the distance so I did some driving on them to find out if I could use them or I should drive a harder compound.

What I got is the following:

- Stint lenght 25 laps
- Tyre wear indicator (real wear speed) went completely down in lap 18/19 for the left tyres.
- By the end of the stint right tyres had like 5% left.

The car felt exactly the same for the first 18 laps. In fact I kept getting faster as fuel went lower. The tyres had the same grip at 90% and at 10%. Only when they hit 0% on the left side the car started to pick up understeer on the right handers, which was only costing me around 1 second. To make things worse, I did all the stint with orange or red tyre temperature on the left side of the car, with 0 grip lost.

I had the same experience in a Spa race with road cars in the 3.0 days, the car (Zonda Roadster, this time with the Pirelli track tyre) felt exactly the same for a BIG number of laps, then the tyres fell abruptly.

We also had this happening in a recent league (last month or so) with Formula C. In the tracks where the race lenght was iffy to get to the end on one set of tyres, the guys that changed tyres didnīt have any pace advantage at the end. The tyre with 20% life left felt the same as with 90%. Only if you hit dead 0 you started feeling anything at all.

Something is not working.

Stocky
20-10-2015, 22:00
Are you talking about the in game (tire picture) indicator? Because when that shows zero green left, it means the tire is at 50%.

Only 50% of the tire, is represented in that picture.

At 50% is when the grip starts to go. We do long league races, with 7x tire wear.

If you mean the profiler, then never mind, that tells you the true percentage of tire.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
21-10-2015, 00:19
I've noticed a big difference in feel with ~20% left on the in-game display (60% through the external API). The absolute amounts of grip are still roughly the same, but how the grip behaves on the limit changes, it becomes less progressive, loss of grip happens more suddenly and sharply, and even though the same lap times are still possible, I need to be more careful when trying to reach them. The tyres' temperature fluctuations change dramatically as you wear down the tread thickness as well, they both heat up and cool down quicker, leading to larger fluctuations.

hkraft300
21-10-2015, 00:23
Interesting info, Stocky. Is that on every tire? Surely not!

I found the FC can be pushed hard beyond "0%", this explains it.

LMP tires hold up well to abuse. Near 0% the grip is falling away fast. Not sure of road cars. GT3 tires aren't great below the ~10% mark. I'm not a good/consistent enough driver to be doing accurate testing on my own.

Stocky
21-10-2015, 00:52
Many in our league use the pcars profiler, and when the green indicator picture of the tires in game goes away, even though it looks like you are at 0%, the profiler says 50%. So we've come to the conclusion that the tire wear indicator only represents the first 50% of your tire wear.

I assume it's every tire, for every car, but only tested it with FA mediums & softs.

We play at 7x tire wear, so we're very familiar with this.

hkraft300
21-10-2015, 01:02
Cool
There was talk of the wear indicator only showing "tread" or "compound" wear. If what you say is true, it throws a curve ball in the mix that: ok your indicator is at 0, so push til your pace drops off significantly or box the lap before! However it sort of defeats the purpose of said indicator and we're back to square 1, aren't we?
But I'm on console so can't verify. 7x tire wear reveals a lot about setup, driving style and tire behaviour. Interesting stuff.

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 06:33
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27185-TYRE-PHYSICS-DISCUSSION&p=1094635&viewfull=1#post1094635


Yes at around around 40-50 % you are through the tread rubber and into the supporting rubber bonded to the carcass . At this point performance drops dramatically with with most race tires and and not so much with street tires. And why some cars still seem drivable with the wear meter at zero. You are still on borrowed time either way. The meter is set to show tread wear, where the profiler must show the total of both.

hkraft300
21-10-2015, 07:27
Thank you eel man.
Query solved! where would we be without your mad forum post-search skills :)

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 07:40
Thank you eel man.
Query solved! where would we be without your mad forum post-search skills :)

LOL, it's pretty simple once you got the hang of it mate.
You just need the right keyword (in this case "tread") and limit the search to SMS posts (User name: SMS) or specific user posts (User name: Doug914). ;)

Doge
21-10-2015, 13:02
You need to translate that to the in-game meter guys, the current way to display it makes no sense.

Console guys are left in the dark, and even worse, being confused. The tyre life indicator is a mess and we canīt even set the cooling of cars with no MOTEC display as we donīt have anywhere the wáter and oil temperatures.

KkDrummer
21-10-2015, 14:10
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27185-TYRE-PHYSICS-DISCUSSION&p=1094635&viewfull=1#post1094635

what is the profiler? telemetry?

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 14:13
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23284-pCARS-Profiler-%28Telemetry-amp-Analysis%29-PC-ONLY-v1-6

KkDrummer
21-10-2015, 14:27
Thanks Bealdor...yeah, it is a shame console players cannot follow the whole tire deg. scenario then.

Bealdor
21-10-2015, 14:28
Thanks Bealdor...yeah, it is a shame console players cannot follow the whole tire deg. scenario yet.

FTFY ;)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?40113-IN-PROGRESS-Companion-app-UDP-streaming

KkDrummer
21-10-2015, 14:30
FTFY ;)

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?40113-IN-PROGRESS-Companion-app-UDP-streaming

not yet then, cheers! =]

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
21-10-2015, 16:16
FWIW I don't think there's any problem with the game only showing tread wear, you should never aim to run the tyres into the carcass rubber.

Doge
23-10-2015, 19:48
FWIW I don't think there's any problem with the game only showing tread wear, you should never aim to run the tyres into the carcass rubber.

I donīt think thatīs really how it works.

Because if thatīs the case, you guys have extra work. It means the carcass has as much grip (if not more) as the outer rubber. Have a look.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8TzKmHakjg

Flihp
23-10-2015, 23:11
Yep I totally agree that at zero on the indicator lap times and driveability doesn't not alter much and decline is noticed around the 90% mark on the profiler app, which pretty much falls inline with your video. The hud indicator is doubled (x2) of the profiler. Wasn't there complaints of x2 and other values tire wear not functioning as expected early on after release.?

Stocky
24-10-2015, 00:05
We use 7x tire wear for our League, and that does work. We end up running our tires past the tire wear indicator regularly.

Krus Control
24-10-2015, 00:15
I've always thought that the level in the green tires represented grip falloff, not literal tread depth or complete tire life. I'm always running way past the green being gone and never had a failure so I figured it must not be tire life. I've never noticed significant falloff past the green being gone.

Kruleworld
24-10-2015, 08:14
It means the carcass has as much grip (if not more) as the outer rubber.

it sounds silly when you put it like that. i agree it seems like an odd choice. We can see the way real world race cars fall off the pace when their tires go off.

Doge
24-10-2015, 20:45
it sounds silly when you put it like that. i agree it seems like an odd choice. We can see the way real world race cars fall off the pace when their tires go off.

Leaving the indicator aside for a second, the actual behaviour of the tyres also needs A LOT of work.

I did some testing for a Formula C race at Zolder, and itīs the second time in 2 days I see the exact same behaviour in vastly different cars and tyres: the tyre performance is flat for a huge period > you get damage.

Thereīs not such a thing as "wear", you just run at full speed until the tyre is finished and then starts wobbling as if it had a slow puncture. There needs to be drop off in performance during the stage where the tyre is healthy.