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Joseph Barron
19-11-2015, 11:49
222333

Here at Slightly Mad Studios we’ve been intently listening to your feedback around the web, on the official forums, and via social media, and been working hard to integrate your ideas into Project CARS via our On Demand program and our early plans for the sequel.

To help continue that conversation with you - the players - we have created a short survey (http://www.projectcarsgame.com/survey.html) to find out where you'd like the Project CARS franchise to head in the future.

Our team is committed to supporting Project CARS with further updates and fresh On Demand content well into 2016 and we'd like to gather your opinions on the types of cars, tracks and features that you would like to see in future updates. You may even spot a few questions and ideas for Project CARS 2 and we would love to know what you think about these as well!

How much did you play Career mode? Which car class is your favourite? What sort of gaming setup do you have? What's important to you in a racing game? Answer the questions via the link below to have your say on the future of the world’s only Community Assisted Racing Simulation!

TAKE THE SURVEY! (http://www.projectcarsgame.com/survey.html)

Bealdor
19-11-2015, 12:03
Voted.

Invincible
19-11-2015, 12:05
I'm on it! Voting now.

Edit: Done

Ps: Opel / vauxhall is missing in the brand selection :p

noobkill
19-11-2015, 12:07
Done :)

EpilepticToast
19-11-2015, 12:16
nice thorough questions, voted!

Seubi42
19-11-2015, 12:18
Voted. Nice initiative guys :)

Cheesenium
19-11-2015, 12:28
Done.

Hope to see more interesting content for pcars.

Invincible
19-11-2015, 12:28
Will the results be published here too?

CoTiNhO
19-11-2015, 12:35
Awesom poll! Voted!!!

I missed the question... Do you think Project Cars need guys to test before launch new patches??? jejeje

DozUK
19-11-2015, 12:38
Voted. A bit surprised to see quite a few questions regarding Cars unlocking and currency. I know it's a survey but lets remember why we're playing this rather than Forza and Gran Turismo

N0body Of The Goat
19-11-2015, 12:45
About the only thing I would have liked to have seen in the survey, which was missing, was some sort of online rating system (such as the modified ELO chess system that was/is used at Microsoft Gaming Zone).

ElectricBlues85
19-11-2015, 12:47
Done. I think it would be nice if we got to see the results too :)

CiccioFritz
19-11-2015, 12:47
Done

nissan4ever
19-11-2015, 12:49
Done

BulletEyeDK
19-11-2015, 12:49
Done...

cluck
19-11-2015, 12:52
Voted :)

Great idea by the way :yes:.

TheReaper GT
19-11-2015, 13:02
Done...
Are we getting a GTE class separeted from GT3? because it shows more than twice on the survey but we don't have it in game...

wOoDsTeR16
19-11-2015, 13:06
Done

M. -VIPER- Morgan
19-11-2015, 13:12
Done

Mascot
19-11-2015, 13:17
How would you rate Project CARS’ audio compared to Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport?

More realistic
Less realistic
About the same
I don't know

GT and FM have such different audio (GT: bad, FM: excellent) that this question is impossible to answer with the given options.
There are also other examples of badly-worded questions with odd answers to choose from, and these will only serve to skew the data.

Fractured Life
19-11-2015, 13:17
Some of the fields make you choose an answer - regarding the comparisons to other games especially - I haven't played them so a bit hard to decide which has better handling etc etc

Scuderia Paul
19-11-2015, 13:19
It is nice to see this survey. Good stuff SMS and hopefully the results form a significant part of the direction of PCars2.

A couple of questions could have done with a character limited option to elaborate on our answer.


Survey
Which cars would you like to see more of in Project CARS? (Choose your Top 3)

Which car brands would you like to see more of in the future? (Choose your Top 3)
These were really tough questions. I hate leaving out car classes / brands I really like but must in order to vote for other new ones.

ports
19-11-2015, 13:23
Voted :)

Beatminister
19-11-2015, 13:25
Done. Couldn't say much about the difference to other recent racing sims, since I only started sim racing again after years because of PCars. What really makes the difference for me is, that the contact and response to and from the devs is unprecedented. In the past the developer's philosophy was mainly "its sold, its paid for, so why bother any further".
With Pcars its a completely new perception: the devs give you the feeling that they are still prepared to work hard to improve the game you have already bought. Thats also the reason why I'm buying further DLCs. The game is not perfect yet, even after V6, but I can believe the devs will keep working to make it better.

crowtrobot
19-11-2015, 13:26
Survey questions didn't load in Firefox 42.0...

IE worked fine. Completed the survey. Will we see results from the poll or will that be confidential?

BistoKid
19-11-2015, 13:33
About the only thing I would have liked to have seen in the survey, which was missing, was some sort of online rating system (such as the modified ELO chess system that was/is used at Microsoft Gaming Zone).

Got to agree with you there. As I understand, iRacing offers a rating system based on ability and awareness, would have really liked to have seen something like that introduced in P.Cars. Ratings offers a hook to the player and allows for better matchmaking.

BullWinkle
19-11-2015, 13:44
Done. Since project Cars is the only racing game I have installed, there were a couple questions I couldn't answer. Nice poll though.:)

Grijo
19-11-2015, 13:48
Done!!

Joseph Barron
19-11-2015, 13:53
Some of the fields make you choose an answer - regarding the comparisons to other games especially - I haven't played them so a bit hard to decide which has better handling etc etc

You don't have to answer every single question on the page. For example, if you haven't played the games asked about in the comparisons, feel free to skip those questions.

Joseph Barron
19-11-2015, 13:54
Survey questions didn't load in Firefox 42.0...

IE worked fine. Completed the survey. Will we see results from the poll or will that be confidential?

The results may inform certain development decisions for the future of the franchise, so I don't think the results will be shared publicly, at least not for a while.

transfix
19-11-2015, 13:56
Done.

chig88
19-11-2015, 13:57
Done.

KkDrummer
19-11-2015, 14:28
Done. good survey btw.

NavyFlipper HUN
19-11-2015, 14:34
Done.

Felipe Becker
19-11-2015, 14:38
Voted.

Leniuch
19-11-2015, 14:43
Done

Klondike68
19-11-2015, 14:51
Voted. A bit surprised to see quite a few questions regarding Cars unlocking and currency. I know it's a survey but lets remember why we're playing this rather than Forza and Gran Turismo

But there is also a lot of people, who think the game becomes a bit boring rather quicly since there is no kinda goal to work towards too when playing a game where everything is already unlocked from the start.

Im guising and over whelming part of console users would have liked a better carrer mode with some sort of goals reach. As it is now with Project cars 1 the achivements are still bugged after more than 5 pathces on Xbox one. The Multiplayer is dead and disfunctional ( Have been from launch )

Achivement / trophies are a big seller on console systems. There are tons of people who buy games just to complete them. Its important to the customers that they are not bugged or made so hard that it is imposibel to achive them. Its a bad strategy for a company to have bugged / imposibel achivements since it can hurt their income as people tend to stay away from games that have these problems.

Also I agre with the poster who sayd its imposibel to answer questions regarding comparing sounds with Forza and gran turismo. Sounds in Gran Turismo is really bad. Forza sounds are really good. Project cars are good too.

Also even its nice with all this communication with the users. I really think you should have put someone else at the front to represent your company rather than the imature guy who banned everyone who was in disagrement with him.

You have to be someone die hard racing game fan to still be playing this game or consider buying it or a sequel. The first game with all its bugs and problems really hurt the credability of SMS. Its sad because the core of the game is really really good. Just there where, and still is so many problems with it that the wast majority of people consider it to be a crappy game.

azidahaka
19-11-2015, 14:54
Voting!

crowtrobot
19-11-2015, 14:55
The results may inform certain development decisions for the future of the franchise, so I don't think the results will be shared publicly, at least not for a while.
Figured, could also be of use to competitors if they don't already have those metrics themselves. Thanks for the reply.

Speedemon
19-11-2015, 15:00
Done.

azidahaka
19-11-2015, 15:02
Curious about the results.

hitmanvega
19-11-2015, 15:04
Done.

LigierJSP2
19-11-2015, 15:13
Thanks SMS for setting this up, just submitted mine.

Ryno917
19-11-2015, 15:17
I'll go through this all now :)

Must say, though, that I'm more than a bit terrified there will be an overwhelming want for drifting in pC2 in lieu of racing...

Diluvian
19-11-2015, 15:34
Which car brands do you want to see more of in Project CARS? (Choose your Top 3):

Audi is missing?

ingrobny
19-11-2015, 15:37
Done :)

phinn
19-11-2015, 15:37
Completed the poll. Hope to see the results posted when its done!

ELAhrairah
19-11-2015, 15:37
lmp lmp lmp lmp lmp lmp lmp!

inthebagbud
19-11-2015, 15:46
Not sure the mobile version is working properly as no radio buttons where displayed on Samsung note, but when I switched to web version on tablet the buttons showed up

TheReaper GT
19-11-2015, 15:57
Not sure the mobile version is working properly as no radio buttons where displayed on Samsung note, but when I switched to web version on tablet the buttons showed up

Same here

Knightfall
19-11-2015, 15:58
GREAT idea putting such a comprehensive survey up.

Completed.

Also curious to see results.

t0daY
19-11-2015, 15:59
Doooone :)

NaRP
19-11-2015, 16:15
Voted. Done.

DinoM
19-11-2015, 16:27
Done!

RomKnight
19-11-2015, 16:33
Another two (one from me and another confirmed where I advertised :) )

damadmoneyman
19-11-2015, 16:42
Just voted, this is great... NISSAN, CHEVY, and "FERRARI PAL"... interested to see how others answered this question...

Sparkie84
19-11-2015, 16:49
Voted. A comments box at the end would have been an interesting idea - may have been one or two bits missing from that survey that some might have thought worth mentioning.

Razocharovaniye
19-11-2015, 17:08
Done!!

C6ckneyGeezer
19-11-2015, 17:20
Done.

falcon2081
19-11-2015, 17:20
Voted as well.

While this survey is a tiny step in the right direction I personally would like to see more communication when it comes to certain things being added/patched in multiplayer. Especially to those of us who organize leagues.

Smitty
19-11-2015, 17:20
Done.

FLX81
19-11-2015, 17:20
To be honest, some of those questions will not provide worthwhile results. For example I dont like the audio in pcars because some of the cars sound way to synthetic and the mixing in big packs is completely börked, you dont even hear your own engine most of the time. But of course its better than FMs sterile audio or GTs vacuum cleaner engine sounds... What does that information tell you though? A simple 1-10 rating system would have generated more informative results.

MacPhisto
19-11-2015, 17:32
Voted.

NoBrakes
19-11-2015, 17:34
Done + shared on my plattform as well to invite other racers as well

Angst1974
19-11-2015, 17:56
I don't think I would ever buy any type of sim with "unlocks"

GUIBRU
19-11-2015, 18:06
I also voted !

srbubbles
19-11-2015, 18:18
Done

amazed
19-11-2015, 18:22
Done, no Vauxhall or Opel though, so had to pick GM!

cxMilk
19-11-2015, 18:28
Done!

Though I'm a little worried given the amount of times "car unlocks" and "currency" came up in the poll. I'd rather play a game where everything's open up front, even if it has a few bugs, letting me race whatever I want, whenever I want, to my heart's content than needlessly grind races just to buy the next car. Let racing games be about racing; not a car dealership manager.

wOoDsTeR16
19-11-2015, 18:49
I don't think I would ever buy any type of sim with "unlocks"

Or one that does not become a sim until 6 months after its release!

Dorny
19-11-2015, 18:50
Done!

Though I'm a little worried given the amount of times "car unlocks" and "currency" came up in the poll. I'd rather play a game where everything's open up front, even if it has a few bugs, letting me race whatever I want, whenever I want, to my heart's content than needlessly grind races just to buy the next car. Let racing games be about racing; not a car dealership manager.

There needs to be a hybrid of the two ideas. Having everyone unlocked from the start is great, but it kills the single player as there is no sense of progression or reward. But the old fashioned unlocking and credit earning method can be annoying forcing you to waste time playing the game doing something you dont want to do, however there is strong sense of reward and progression.

Theres needs to be a middle ground between Pcars "open toolbox" and Gran Turismo's "Locked away content and GRIND"

The sim guys are happy with just a toolbox that has cars and tracks in it. Gamers/casuals need context and there to be a GAME aspect to it to be engaging.

Knightfall
19-11-2015, 19:11
Done!

Though I'm a little worried given the amount of times "car unlocks" and "currency" came up in the poll. I'd rather play a game where everything's open up front, even if it has a few bugs, letting me race whatever I want, whenever I want, to my heart's content than needlessly grind races just to buy the next car. Let racing games be about racing; not a car dealership manager.

This 1000 times. Having everything unlocked is perhaps the BEST feature of Pcars over its competitors.

Remy1986
19-11-2015, 19:16
Done.

Would have liked a comments section at the end.

crowtrobot
19-11-2015, 19:25
To be honest, some of those questions will not provide worthwhile results. For example I dont like the audio in pcars because some of the cars sound way to synthetic and the mixing in big packs is completely börked, you dont even hear your own engine most of the time. But of course its better than FMs sterile audio or GTs vacuum cleaner engine sounds... What does that information tell you though? A simple 1-10 rating system would have generated more informative results.
The survey is heavily sample-biased anyway - the only people taking it are a percentage of the people who regularly visit these forums, twitter, and maybe those who check in on the main site occasionally (though I'm not sure who those people are). I can't imagine that's representative of the opinions of the whole of Project CARS owners.

Tomcul
19-11-2015, 19:28
I've been thoroughly enjoying the career mode on pcars have 300 hours in it already, my prize has been that when I started ai were tough at 70. Now I can nearly win on all tracks at 90, goin to keep pushin for 100..
Love the fact everything is unlocked from the beginning.
Grind out 20,000,000 credits to buy a ford mk4....no thanks..

STEELJOCKEY
19-11-2015, 19:40
Voted

MillsLayne
19-11-2015, 19:55
Done. And yeah, stick to leaving everything unlocked from the start. I don't want to be forced into unlocking tracks/cars by racing in something that I don't like.

poirqc
19-11-2015, 20:04
I'm a little disappointed that the survey didn't include a comment box. I can understand why tho.

I'll write it here instead.

Better documentation of the FFB system. It's an awesome system, powerful, but it can be miss used when someone doesn't understand it. The way i see it is that they WANT us to play with it. If not, it wouldn't be exposed.

I've spent the better part of the last 6 months trying to understand it and i'm still getting lost sometimes. I'm not asking SMS to fine tune MY FFB, i'm talking about explaining how the tools are meant to be used. How they work. Beside a recent PS4 thread, i'm not aware of official feedback about the subject.

Thank you.

gelfie
19-11-2015, 20:09
Brands: McLaren... 650S, for SEXY!

I agree a lot of the questions were ambiguous and didn't give answers that were appropriate.

Which game has more "Realistic" graphics... well pCars, probably. But the game with the BEST graphics is Forza 6... so much detail trackside, so many animations, puddles you can hit and they react visually and physically.

But the wording for the question was wrong, so I picked pCars from the list.

Many other examples in there.

Please DO NOT introduce an unlock/purchase system. I drive (and occasionally race) because I enjoy it. I do not want to have to jump through hoops to drive the car or track that I'm in the mood for. Also, imagine how this would mess up online leagues and such. No thank you.

jaymondo
19-11-2015, 20:23
Voted, nice to see the idea of setup swapping (with load/save hopefully) mentioned. Some good questions in there. Worth the effort to vote.

Stevesixty7
19-11-2015, 20:36
Done. Only takes a few minutes folks, worth doing. Only one I didn't answer because I couldn't as I have no experience with said titles.

FS7
19-11-2015, 20:47
Voted.

-I play mainly solo mode/free practice, I thought it was odd that the survey asked me if I play career & online but didn't ask which game mode I play the most.
-One of the reasons that I like PCars is because I have access to all cars & tracks from the start in solo mode. Being able to freely choose which tier to start on at the beginning of career is another good point of the game. I hope it stays that way for future games. I hate being forced to play the game in a specific way, I have no interest at all in spending my free time grinding to unlock stuff, I want to spend my time racing cars I like at tracks I like. If future games don't have a solo mode with everything unlocked from the start I probably won't buy the game.
-"Which feature of a racing game is most important to you?" I was very surprised that "good offline racing" wasn't one of the options in the list, after all physics, tracks & cars are only worth it if I have something interesting to do with them. PCars does this very well with its solo mode (although there can be improvements).

DECATUR PLAYA
19-11-2015, 20:51
Voted.

This is why you guys are the best. Hope to see Nascar and ovals soon.

RomKnight
19-11-2015, 20:52
For me is all about endurance (and everything around it like day night and weather, dynamic tracks), realism in every way possible wrt physics (obviously) to BoP and flags and finally solid MP and League racing.

RomKnight
19-11-2015, 20:54
For me is all about endurance (and everything around it like day night and weather, dynamic tracks and driver swap...), realism in every way possible wrt physics (obviously) to BoP and flags and finally solid MP and League racing.

Now somethings like the ones above didn't show up either so I guess, as part of endurance minority I'll probably have to wait. I hope not though.

SUBGTRACER
19-11-2015, 21:30
Done ............. Surprisingly you are starting to give me confidence that the first title will grow in 2016 ! Thank you .


The poll should have asked if we want a better damage model :(

Kunca8
19-11-2015, 21:38
Done :)
This voting is really great idea. Never seen something like that from other studios before, nice, many thanks.
I missed GTR 2 in other played games. Even that it is little obsolete, there were many great features. For all of them gearing graph in car setup (and of course saving mid-race in pits :grumpy: )

Mad Al
19-11-2015, 21:59
I voted UKIP....

EliteK29
19-11-2015, 22:15
Just got done with it. Indycars, Gen 6 Nascars and super GT cars would be incredible to have soon. Very nice poll.

Gopher04
19-11-2015, 22:20
Strange the survey only compare audio in Pcars with Fonza & Turismo...why no Raceroom..:chargrined:

mister dog
19-11-2015, 22:25
How would you rate Project CARS’ audio compared to Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport?

Bit of a difficult question this one seeing GT's audio is generally perceived as total crap, and FM's is generally perceived as very good :)

321Respawn
19-11-2015, 22:36
I would like to see Vauxhall/Opel in there to so I chose GM as the closest option .Please if you add VW to the content make sure they aren't diesel VW's.

Silraed
20-11-2015, 05:07
The question on the audio quality is extremely difficult so answer with the limited choices.

From a pure audio quality and car sounds perspective you win over both Forza and GT for me but, you lose out on the audio mixing in groups of cars and the surround positioning.

To me, the surround positioning is most important I am sad to say as it immerses me more, it makes me feel like I am actually in the drivers seat and that is just missing for me in Project CARS.

Colinmode
20-11-2015, 05:07
This debate on whether the cars should be unlocked from the start or earned through game progression is so strange to me. It seems like a no brainer, solo mode and multiplayer should have the ability to race any car any track while career mode should have a progression system. Take DiRT Rally for example. The career mode has purchasable cars that are unlocked through in game currency and it works great imo. When I buy a new car in career mode I feel like that is "MY" car and I try to not smash into as many walls with it. And when i want to test out a new car or track that's been added i just go to the practice mode. Additionally, (in a perfect world) the purchasable car scheme should have a livery editor in it to really make the car you just bought feel like your own.

Animera
20-11-2015, 07:34
I've completed the survey.
Would have liked a question on human driver swapping for online endurance races.

RAVEracer
20-11-2015, 08:40
Done :) Rather than having a currency/unlock cars and tracks system it would be nice to have a team currency of sorts... so the currency grows as you move between front running and teams that make up the numbers. This currency is impacted by gaining/loosing sponsors and can be used to get better performing/more reliable car parts and maybe a better team mate for teams championship.

Also it was nice to see Holden as a separate vote to GM.

Mark Silcock
20-11-2015, 09:40
Done,

Sound was missing from the list of important factors. Like others the comparison titles for sound was limited.

Scott1904
20-11-2015, 10:36
Great. I take me some time after my work to join the survey.

tclancey
20-11-2015, 11:28
Voted. A bit surprised to see quite a few questions regarding Cars unlocking and currency. I know it's a survey but lets remember why we're playing this rather than Forza and Gran Turismo

True dat!

RTA nOsKiLlS
20-11-2015, 11:30
Would you like to buy the sequel?

LMAO!

Last week, I would have said yes.

But after the patch 6.0 and being told its me thats doing it all wrong (despite having no problems in anything other than GT3).

No, I cant say I'll be buying the sequel.

Why would I?

desertdbz
20-11-2015, 12:29
voted

falm
20-11-2015, 13:21
Voted

MABlosfeld
20-11-2015, 13:36
Just a suggestion, do not need to swear me, okay? Thank you.
Single Player career:
- Progression and unlock cars and tracks
singleplayer:
- All released
multiplayer:
- All released
multiplayer league:
- Select a class and car
- Participate in championship
- Progression reputation (skill level)

K34sc
20-11-2015, 14:29
Done! :yes:

E_Luckow
20-11-2015, 14:49
Done!

3800racingfool
20-11-2015, 14:58
Just a suggestion, do not need to swear me, okay? Thank you.
Single Player career:
- Progression and unlock cars and tracks
singleplayer:
- All released
multiplayer:
- All released

I thought about a system like that. The issue is, how is that truly any different from what we have now? The only thing you'd be doing is forcing people to go through Zero-to-Hero mode instead of picking where they start.

Maybe that's what people want. But, the way I see it, there's going to be folks in both camps and neither one will be happy with the other's solution.

EDIT: also, voted yesterday. For future reference, I'd advise having people submit an email address and then cataloging it into a database. As it stands you can just refresh the page and re-take the survey over and over. Definitely could skew the results.

SlowBloke
20-11-2015, 15:21
How would you rate Project CARS’ audio compared to Gran Turismo & Forza Motorsport?

More realistic
Less realistic
About the same
I don't know

GT and FM have such different audio (GT: bad, FM: excellent) that this question is impossible to answer with the given options.
There are also other examples of badly-worded questions with odd answers to choose from, and these will only serve to skew the data.

Found it quite easy tbh - I think PC is more realistic than both - but I agree with you GT is terrible - everything sounds like a hair dryer...

Kunal_Racedriver
20-11-2015, 15:39
Finished the thorough survey. I am bit surprised that there was no mention of VR. It is the one thing I am most excited about and if it turns out good and practical, who knows if I'll ever be able to play anything without proper support.

MABlosfeld
20-11-2015, 16:43
I thought about a system like that. The issue is, how is that truly any different from what we have now? The only thing you'd be doing is forcing people to go through Zero-to-Hero mode instead of picking where they start.

Maybe that's what people want. But, the way I see it, there's going to be folks in both camps and neither one will be happy with the other's solution.

EDIT: also, voted yesterday. For future reference, I'd advise having people submit an email address and then cataloging it into a database. As it stands you can just refresh the page and re-take the survey over and over. Definitely could skew the results.

you are right but my main focus is:
multiplayer league:
- Select a class and car
- Participate in the championship
- Progression reputation (skill level)

note: like a CAREER MODE

bcicciar
20-11-2015, 17:20
Voted

TMoney
21-11-2015, 00:39
Voted. Car customization please! Visual and performance mods with a paint shop. Might be hard to top NFS though but it's so hard to turn that down.

Leper Messiah
21-11-2015, 10:39
voted (rather nice to vote for good things rather than scum bag politicians!)

F2kSel
21-11-2015, 13:00
Would of like to have seen a bit more focus on game stability,how often does the game crash.

I'll vote for note very stable.

Scott1904
21-11-2015, 14:56
You want feedback? Then Please add this survey in steam community page in discussions or as an announcement.

Laughing Gravy
21-11-2015, 15:14
A fairly comprehensive poll. I appreciate the fact that the developers are giving the users the means to be heard.

casscroute
21-11-2015, 15:45
Voted

casscroute
21-11-2015, 15:48
who voted for ferrari,porsche and chevrolet ? :D

silicijevadolina
21-11-2015, 17:01
Voted.

silicijevadolina
21-11-2015, 17:02
Voted


Me. 4 Ferrari.

Kartu14
21-11-2015, 18:14
Done

Nelson Pacheco
21-11-2015, 18:22
done

Jonathan Newsam
22-11-2015, 11:58
done

mister dog
22-11-2015, 21:13
I don't really understand why everyone has to state he has completed it :)
Thread looks a bit monotone that way.

DECATUR PLAYA
23-11-2015, 05:17
Will we get the results of the survey.

Photonenbert
23-11-2015, 05:56
done

IJerichoI
23-11-2015, 08:35
completed. Opel was missing, but I checked General Motors instead :P

Pink_650S
23-11-2015, 09:14
I was missing a question: "Would you like to see working pitstops?" :p

Jokes aside. Cool survey, l liked the question about how satisfied l am with the devs, interesting one. Definitely am very satisfied with them.
Keep it up, guys :)

Boss_335
23-11-2015, 09:43
Judging by the survey a V8 Supercars license is not a priority. I couldn't bring myself to vote Holden so I voted Volvo instead, lol. :loyal:

mcbrew
23-11-2015, 09:47
Done! Now, give me more GT cars :)

mkstatto
23-11-2015, 09:49
Done

Bultaco85
23-11-2015, 11:29
Great survey, really good questions, hope it´s for the best.

Thank you!

Fong74
23-11-2015, 12:02
Good stuff! Propagated this among my racing fellows, hoping they all participate in the survey.

Will the results be published in the end and if so, when will this be the case approximately?

Plato99
23-11-2015, 12:11
Some great questions in there!
Hope everyone ticked the BTCC box !! :D

mcbrew
23-11-2015, 12:40
Some great questions in there!
Hope everyone ticked the BTCC box !! :D
I know i did :) so, that`s at least two votes for BTTC :)

Fong74
23-11-2015, 12:53
Three! :cool:

jaymondo
23-11-2015, 13:19
Ah yes, GTR2, the setup system was simple, and worked and with good community input. (no pen and paper required either!, its the future you know!?) I also would like to see mid race save, I forgot GTR2 supported that.


Done :)
This voting is really great idea. Never seen something like that from other studios before, nice, many thanks.
I missed GTR 2 in other played games. Even that it is little obsolete, there were many great features. For all of them gearing graph in car setup (and of course saving mid-race in pits :grumpy: )

gruzzlebeard
23-11-2015, 16:37
Done. First of all I find this survey very good and important that SMS is doing this. I really appreciate this.

I've just one concern. It's good to see the results and point out where the priorities in future should be but it says nothing or not too much about what works good what have been achieved so far and what could be improved in the current status. This falls too short in the survey in my opinion.

Just as an example - I struggled with myself a bit about the question "which 5 features are most important to us". IMO it's a too long and mixed list of very basic important features like FFB, Tuning, Game modes, assets (tracks/car) in connection with Graphics, Community networking and other features.

In my personal opinion a SimRacing game should focus first on a faultless Force Feedback System, tuning functions & set-up handling and this with the 3 available game modes incl. a robust tyre & pit stop strategy etc. If the spectators are opening their umbrellas when it's raining is not my key request - I just want to get the right wet tires.

But in addition to this survey what I would like to wish is to get more clarity on the priority of issue resolution from the SMS management. I was surprised that not one FFB issue was solved in the last patch for PS4. The list of open known issues is outdated and many core functionalities like FFB, pit stops, Multiplayer issues, career issues etc. are unsolved since the first day. I fully understand if you cannot solve the things at the same time. But what is your priority and which key issue area will be solved next? I think there are not real showstoppers in the game but too many medium issues are open for a long time and this starts to annoy me. Of course each gamer has other priorities.

Why I mentioned the SMS management above? Because my rating first was a bit low regarding the question how satisfied we are with the developers. But I rated it then higher because I think they do their best to solve all the issues in 3 systems at the same time. But I think it's a also a question for the management to communicate and to set the targets and priority and to take care that developers are getting time to solve the issues and test correctly.

Last but not least a valid crisp and understandable documentation of the Physics/FFB system (maybe with small examples) would already help to get a the right understanding. You do not even need developers for that or only to a limited extend.

In the survey there was no generic text field available so therefore I wrote this here instead.

wyldanimal
23-11-2015, 17:22
One choice for me was missing... Okay ( 3 options )
I'm on the PS4.
It suxs needing to be always connect to the Internet.

Off line MultiPlayer ( even if it's just 2 Player head to Head with the rest of the field filled in by the AI )

Ideally I'd luv to have a real LAN mode with One PS4 working as the dedicated Server, and then each PS4
in a Mesh network, but getting the settings from the Dedicated server.


and a REAL multi Screen mode ( could be similar to GT5 GT6 ) 3 Networked PS4's each set up as it's own Screen Left, Center Right
with the center Screen as the server and the side screens as the clients.

(not everyone will be able to wear a VR headset.) so having a real Multi-screen option is Needed.

I'd also like to see a 3D mode, but again, not everyone can see 3D.

heiz
23-11-2015, 19:35
Done.

And here i vote for triple-screen support. PC.
And much more slots for car setup save function.

Innerspace_HQ
23-11-2015, 22:35
My itchy voting finger is appeased. Some questions are a little awkward but it is what it is and I've answered what was asked, hope it helps.

3800racingfool
23-11-2015, 23:43
One choice for me was missing... Okay ( 3 options )
I'm on the PS4.
It suxs needing to be always connect to the Internet.

Off line MultiPlayer ( even if it's just 2 Player head to Head with the rest of the field filled in by the AI )

Ideally I'd luv to have a real LAN mode with One PS4 working as the dedicated Server, and then each PS4
in a Mesh network, but getting the settings from the Dedicated server.


and a REAL multi Screen mode ( could be similar to GT5 GT6 ) 3 Networked PS4's each set up as it's own Screen Left, Center Right
with the center Screen as the server and the side screens as the clients.

(not everyone will be able to wear a VR headset.) so having a real Multi-screen option is Needed.

I'd also like to see a 3D mode, but again, not everyone can see 3D.

There was an SMS post about this somewhere or another, but the gist of it is this has already been talked about and the conclusion was that the physics engine is too heavy (at least for consoles but maybe even for PCs) to support running it twice on the same platform.

So pick your poison. You either get a game with lower-grade physics with local two player support, or a game with high-grade physics that doesn't support two players locally. SMS picked the "high grade physics and no local multiplayer" option.

Innerspace_HQ
24-11-2015, 00:48
SMS picked the "high grade physics and no local multiplayer" option.

Rightly so. :)

casscroute
27-11-2015, 18:20
Me. 4 Ferrari.

+1 for Ferrari ;)

Victima
27-12-2015, 20:30
May be Known how many "On demand" cars and tracks(locations) do you prevent to launch next year? I´m losing interest for this game
because the short number of locations and cars compared to other games. Hundreds of locations and cars like in rFactor, Race07, GTR2,
would mean thousands of dollars to add to PCars. Could you be clear with your customers and tell if this game will finish being something like NFSS?

Mahjik
27-12-2015, 21:35
May be Known how many "On demand" cars and tracks(locations) do you prevent to launch next year?

Check this thread: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43313-Questions-and-answers-in-here&p=1198950#post1198950

Aef
28-12-2015, 14:46
Voted

77_HAN
28-12-2015, 20:26
Check this thread: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43313-Questions-and-answers-in-here&p=1198950#post1198950

Its bad that the game will be supported for only 4 month from now on. I fear we will only see car DLC`s without new tracks. I would pay a little more for track DLC`s although they will be released later on Pcars2 too. Its boring at the moment to drive on such a few tracks.

Another solution would be to open pcars 1 for modded tracks. Its a too long time until the release of pcars2 and future add-ons for pcars1 would keep the interest in the game higher.

jsydave
28-12-2015, 20:49
Interesting survey although I did my best with it but couldn't help feeling the questions SMS wouldn't like the answers too weren't asked - apart from possibly the how would you rate SMS question (I voted 6 fwiw).

Like the question about what DLC would I most like to see. Tracks, cars or game modes. Well I want ovals but is that a new track or a new mode. I picked mode but would be horrified to see that used as justification for, say, drifting or drag racing.

Also I wish the rate-the-devs question covered different aspects. I rate the content creation far far far higher than I do their XBone bug squishing.

C'est la vie. I've voted and it is what it is now.

spidey11
29-12-2015, 02:33
I voted but wished there was another question:
Q: are you happy if the game ships as a beta and you pay to be a tester for months?
Yes.
No.

Bkim
29-12-2015, 04:55
Did the survey. But to be honest it does not give me any confidence that Pcars itself or any sequels will be stable in AI / pitstops / racerules. SMS should be smart: They should make use of their power and only go for console arcade racing without all difficult AI's racerules, pitstops. Leave the Simracing aspect to others.

spidey11
29-12-2015, 05:40
Did the survey. But to be honest it does not give me any confidence that Pcars itself or any sequels will be stable in AI / pitstops / racerules. SMS should be smart: They should make use of their power and only go for console arcade racing without all difficult AI's racerules, pitstops. Leave the Simracing aspect to others.

If they did that I would not purchase, 100% disagree with you there Bkim but not having a go at you, it's your own opinion. We already have crappy arcade racers like driveclub and need for speed. If this wasn't a sim or anywhere close to sim aspects I wouldn't be here right now

ChrisK
29-12-2015, 11:56
Did the survey. But to be honest it does not give me any confidence that Pcars itself or any sequels will be stable in AI / pitstops / racerules. SMS should be smart: They should make use of their power and only go for console arcade racing without all difficult AI's racerules, pitstops. Leave the Simracing aspect to others.

Horrible suggestion.

maxpainpayne
29-12-2015, 12:16
Did the survey. But to be honest it does not give me any confidence that Pcars itself or any sequels will be stable in AI / pitstops / racerules. SMS should be smart: They should make use of their power and only go for console arcade racing without all difficult AI's racerules, pitstops. Leave the Simracing aspect to others.

I agree I wish this game was more like drive club or forza, because currently the Ai is sort of unrealistic and seems like train cars stuck to track behind each other ( Im having no fun with Ai). the driving controls feels different after every update. some people have problems with wheels but ds4 handling feels too akward. no matter how much I change sensitivity it is too unresponsive. I wish this was arcade game like driveclub and bring more free content because to0 many missteps makes it not a well functioning racing sim; Any race game can call themselves a racing sim but a true racing sim would not have this many bugs and everything will be functioning properly.

I don't like to take survey and compare this to forza when forza don't have game breaking bugs. and I don't like to classify this as sim and declassify forza as sim when this has constant updates to fix major broken things in this game. I wish they would just leave true racing simulators to the pros where you go out and spend thousands of cash on wheels and motorized cockpit equipment.
but with pcars I feel pressured to go buy that extra equipment while the game itself has been ever changing with updates since release. I feel pcars get complicated with controls handeling and graphic after every update. No, im not going to go out and buy fancy wheels and motorized cockit simulators for this game No not ever pcars one or pcars 2. I will spend on things that that have a proven track record of greatness not strike-outs (7 major updates).

chig88
29-12-2015, 13:53
If they did that I would not purchase, 100% disagree with you there Bkim but not having a go at you, it's your own opinion. We already have crappy arcade racers like driveclub and need for speed. If this wasn't a sim or anywhere close to sim aspects I wouldn't be here right now


Horrible suggestion.

He/She is entitled to their opinion, but I agree that it would be awful to have pCARS turn into an arcade game.

Not knocking DriveClub (because I actually think it's a fairly decent pick-up-and-play game), but it already fills the arcade need quite nicely on PS4.

Not much chance of SMS going down the arcade route anyway I wouldn't have thought, so I doesn't really matter.

maxpainpayne
29-12-2015, 14:06
If they did that I would not purchase, 100% disagree with you there Bkim but not having a go at you, it's your own opinion. We already have crappy arcade racers like driveclub and need for speed. If this wasn't a sim or anywhere close to sim aspects I wouldn't be here right now

I disagree. nfs and driveclub are crappy sims and great arcade racers. why? because they didn't reach expectations to be classified as a true racing sim; same as pcars, 7 updates later imo. prove me wrong; I mean would you go out and spend thousands on racing equipment for a game when it is not clear what direction they are heading in? unclear direction apparently because they are using surveys to help guide development decisions using ideas from the community. let me tell you the problem with that is, update 3.0 was a fine game... but those community voices wanted all the host kick functions and other things added to pcars; those people annoyed me more than the rammers did. In game, many times on ps4 they would beg me to "vote kick" someone, but I wanted to just tell them to "stop acting like a **** and learn to avoid the rammers" but i just turned the game off instead. Now with the host kicking functions added, they are constantly kicking each other for no good reason, making online mp action scarce in some areas. Because, A single player has full authority to kick other pcars fans off their "Public" domain:sorrow:. And that concludes why I'm not a fan of too many community game changers.

maxpainpayne
29-12-2015, 14:19
He/She is entitled to their opinion, but I agree that it would be awful to have pCARS turn into an arcade game.

Not knocking DriveClub (because I actually think it's a fairly decent pick-up-and-play game), but it already fills the arcade need quite nicely on PS4.

Not much chance of SMS going down the arcade route anyway I wouldn't have thought, so I doesn't really matter.


Do you think pcars is a full blown simulator?

in my imo or my eyes, I see forza driveclub and pcars all as semi-sim and none like full sim using cxc stuff. So which semi-sim will i pick? The one that works best less bugs and the most entertaining.

chig88
29-12-2015, 14:31
Do you think pcars is a full blown simulator?

in my imo or my eyes, I see forza driveclub and pcars all as semi-sim and none like full sim using cxc stuff. So which semi-sim will i pick? The one that works best less bugs and the most entertaining.

Not full blown, no. But it's as near as I've ever seen/played on a console.

If I was to rank them I'd say pCARS is the most sim-like, the Codemasters F1 games are semi-sim (leaning more towards arcade), while DriveClub is an outright arcade game. Can't speak for Forza because I've never played it, and I haven't played Gran Turismo on the newer consoles.

I certainly wouldn't group pCARS and DriveClub together in the semi-sim category. They're miles apart.

Mahjik
29-12-2015, 14:36
Do you think pcars is a full blown simulator?

What specifically keeps it from being a "full blown simulation" in your opinion?

Cornflex
29-12-2015, 15:15
What specifically keeps it from being a "full blown simulation" in your opinion?

Maybe the fact, that you can crash into your opponents at 200mph and hardly take a scratch?

RomKnight
29-12-2015, 15:18
What specifically keeps it from being a "full blown simulation" in your opinion?

Don't asks questions when you might not like the answers...

As I'm nearly done with pCARS, i'll refrain from more comments until proven otherwise.

Mahjik
29-12-2015, 15:30
Don't asks questions when you might not like the answers...

Why would I not like the answers?

I'm asking for people to provide specifics. I've seen a lot of "It's not a full sim because it doesn't do XYX". But then it's usually things which no current title provides (i.e. things like full, crunch damage modeling of licensed vehicles). So I asked that user what in his/her opinion keeps it from being a "full blown simulation" as compared to what he/she embodies as a "full blown simulation".

Cornflex
29-12-2015, 15:37
Why would I not like the answers?

... But then it's usually things which no current title provides (i.e. things like full, crunch damage modeling of licensed vehicles)...

Have you seen Dirt Rally? Full damage model and licensed vehicles.

RomKnight
29-12-2015, 15:40
Have you seen Dirt Rally? Full damage model and licensed vehicles.

Diferent kind of game... Rally lends more to that so brands might be more permissive to what is shown.

In fact, pCARS has a very cool damage model BUT for licensing reasons (manufacturers fault) SMS can't use it fully.

I know what it is capable of BTW... I was there ;)

chig88
29-12-2015, 15:41
For me it falls a bit short by not having a decent race engineer.

Mahjik
29-12-2015, 15:59
Have you seen Dirt Rally? Full damage model and licensed vehicles.

I have and the damage model isn't really full crunch, but it's decent. Also, I'm not sure the licenses are the same. I'm specifically talking about road course racing games/sims.

d4ninho
29-12-2015, 16:12
Sim,lol

how many times have you seen drivers lagged out in real races, or not able to join the grid for no reason what so ever,lol.

it can only be called a sim when it simulates actual racing, it has to be called what it is, a project.

RomKnight
29-12-2015, 16:13
Why would I not like the answers?

I'm asking for people to provide specifics. I've seen a lot of "It's not a full sim because it doesn't do XYX". But then it's usually things which no current title provides (i.e. things like full, crunch damage modeling of licensed vehicles). So I asked that user what in his/her opinion keeps it from being a "full blown simulation" as compared to what he/she embodies as a "full blown simulation".

Well, me being an PC multiplayer only gamer/simracer here's my opinion of full blown simulation:

- stable netcode. Even if I forget steam and disconnects, fellow opponets seem to be always going forwards/backwards even by the slightest. And lets not forget TRYING to even connect to the server...
- slowdowns on cut tracks. This one is plain stupid and I'm embarrassed to even need mention it.
- flags... useless and for those with triple screen "support" not even visible
- tyres... might as well have only one compound: wets (lets not even go to heat issues where my opinion about the money side of consoles still needs to be proven otherwise)
- not able to lock controllers in DS
- weather in MP not quite working and real weather sometimes not even close to accurate
- 24h races... I can just laught at this. Forgetting not being able to save and the need to let the AI race for us in SP which I couldn't care less about, no driver swap means nothing above 3h will be done (max I know about is 2h and it is hard enough for a a sim already and this coming from someone that did two 15h stints already.
- Where are flat spots? Punctures?
- Temps affecting the engine performance (they just blow at some point)
- suspension damage for abusing kerbs (nothing unless you hit something - a wall straight forward- that brakes it and makes a tyre detach). I mean performance impacting not visuals.

If this does not fill the "full blown sim" please tell me what does.

I know, i'm a minority... Or not.

CreamyDischarge
29-12-2015, 16:25
Diferent kind of game... Rally lends more to that so brands might be more permissive to what is shown.

In fact, pCARS has a very cool damage model BUT for licensing reasons (manufacturers fault) SMS can't use it fully.

I know what it is capable of BTW... I was there ;)

I'm sure this myth was debunked years ago, after the GT arguments. The manufactures were asked directly by the reporters why they didn't allow damage to vehicles, and they satiated categorically that the licence held no such restrictions.

This can also be seen in other games with the same car / manufacture (Ford Focus etc) as it would mean that ford drew up a completely independent licence for SMS only that excluded them from displaying full damage?

It's more than nonsense, it's offensive some people think users will swallow this excuse again 10years on.

I agree with the other guy above who points out, it's only a sim when it actually works. And in all fairness, that not the majority of the time for many of us in leagues.

CreamyDischarge
29-12-2015, 16:30
What specifically keeps it from being a "full blown simulation" in your opinion?

It doesn't work consistently.
It has over 10 fictional cars and tracks that don't exist in the real world.
You can dive into a wall head on at 200mph and don't damage the vehicle.
Land mines
Online lag
Cars stacking on top of each other
Sticky cars
Tyres model is broken as tyres are not heating correctly
AI would be banned in real life racing
AI don't get penalised for overtaking off track
AI don't get affected by physics when driving off road
FFB is not realistic and does not simulate how the vehicle works in real life (based on the physical cars I have actually driven AWK and in game.
I've got a metric ton more, shall I continue?

RomKnight
29-12-2015, 16:33
I'm sure this myth was debunked years ago, after the GT arguments. The manufactures were asked directly by the reporters why they didn't allow damage to vehicles, and they satiated categorically that the licence held no such restrictions.

This can also be seen in other games with the same car / manufacture (Ford Focus etc) as it would mean that ford drew up a completely independent licence for SMS only that excluded them from displaying full damage?

It's more than nonsense, it's offensive some people think users will swallow this excuse again 10years on.

I agree with the other guy above who points out, it's only a sim when it actually works. And in all fairness, that not the majority of the time for many of us in leagues.

You said it... years ago. And as I've said it, pCARS DOES have it. You probably can even see it on old youtube videos.

And IIRC the mercs kept being dial out of damage at each revision because of approval reviews from them... kind of said to see really.

If others got permission for the time being or payed for it (who knows) good for them. SMS had no such luck. You're free to believe whatever you want so we'll agree to disagree.

Mahjik
29-12-2015, 16:54
Well, me being an PC multiplayer only gamer/simracer here's my opinion of full blown simulation

....

I would say, the majority of those are "technical" rather than something determining whether it's a "full blown simulation" rather than an arcade racer. The main points are the flat spots, punctures, and suspension damage.

So are you suggesting that until rF2 came out, nothing was a full blown simulation?


......

Those are are "technical", not things that differentiate a "full blown sim" from one that is not.


You can dive into a wall head on at 200mph and don't damage the vehicle.

That's blowing it out of proportion. Yes, the damage model is reduced from what it's capable of, but there is damage.

RomKnight
29-12-2015, 17:17
I would say, the majority of those are "technical" rather than something determining whether it's a "full blown simulation" rather than an arcade racer. The main points are the flat spots, punctures, and suspension damage.

I knew you would say that... problem is, we need these to work correctly to be able to simulate racing. Full blown racing no longer means just physics as I'm sure you're very aware as you even mentioned rF2...

And those main points alone are more than enough... lets forget the other tyre issues I mentioned as you've seem to forgot mention until patch... (hopefully not by pCARS2 release time).


So are you suggesting that until rF2 came out, nothing was a full blown simulation?

Technically speaking GP3/4 (IIRC and AI was plain perfect too) since we're into nitpicking. But hey, things evolve so don't even try to compare. It's like trying to compare best drivers of all time... they were all the best at THEIR TIME.

Remember I follow pC1 at WMD from day 7 (IIRC) before even attempt to con me and distort my words. Point is, pCARS has all... and delivered too little.

I would not by a car with A/C and then having to wait for the brand to fix the wiring to make it work months after. Hell, wrt to tyres SMS didn't shoot themselves in the foot... they shot both feet and I bet you that it won't be fixed any time soon.

* Without the tyres working you DONT HAVE A SIM * This alone should be enough of an argument really but, *again* since THINGS EVOLVE it is just not enough anymore (good for us... when it all works).

Mahjik
29-12-2015, 17:49
I knew you would say that... problem is, we need these to work correctly to be able to simulate racing. Full blown racing no longer means just physics as I'm sure you're very aware as you even mentioned rF2...

The point I'm getting at is that "full blown simulation" means different things to different people. Is iRacing a "full blown simulation"? It doesn't have AI, does that make it less a sim? It doesn't have a complex tire heat model, does that make it less a sim?


And those main points alone are more than enough... lets forget the other tyre issues I mentioned as you've seem to forgot mention until patch... (hopefully not by pCARS2 release time).

I didn't think I needed to mention the upcoming patch.


Remember I follow pC1 at WMD from day 7 (IIRC) before even attempt to con me and distort my words. Point is, pCARS has all... and delivered too little.

Distort words? It's asking a question. You are making rF2 comparisons in every thread. I'm not distorting anything.


* Without the tyres working you DONT HAVE A SIM * This alone should be enough of an argument really but, *again* since THINGS EVOLVE it is just not enough anymore (good for us... when it all works).

So a bug gets introduced that turns something from a full sim to no longer a full sim?

IMO, you are sensationalizing other aspects because certain things didn't turn out the way you wanted them. You are likely correct. pCARS will never be rF2 and rF2 will never be pCARS. I'm not sure that is a bad thing.


I will say for me, the one thing that keeps me coming back to pCARS is the tire scrubbing. No current sim has it but pCARS. Every racing driver I know hates that in other sims. A real life cornering technique is to throw a car into a corner, just a little faster than expected. Get the car rotating slightly just enough that it because to slide to scrub speed off.. As the car scrubs speed, you can then apply the throttle and complete the turn. In most "sims", this just causes a weird spin or slide since their is no scrubbing affect. My idea of a "full blown simulation" is one that allows me to drive as I do in real life.

RomKnight
29-12-2015, 19:14
The point I'm getting at is that "full blown simulation" means different things to different people. Is iRacing a "full blown simulation"? It doesn't have AI, does that make it less a sim? It doesn't have a complex tire heat model, does that make it less a sim?

I couldn't care less about AI. I play online.

Yes in comparison, it does. Isn't that obvious? You mean you'd choose OutRun with canned FFB as long as it makes you feel like a sim?



I didn't think I needed to mention the upcoming patch.
The next.. the one after... eventually things will get sorted. Obviously and hopefully. Unfortunately not half of what I've mentioned originally.


Distort words? It's asking a question. You are making rF2 comparisons in every thread. I'm not distorting anything.
There's no other to compare really... It is the closest thing to reality. Am I wrong in the comparison I made about the FR3.5? If I was I'll promptly correct it.

If i would compare pCARS to reality well... lets start with something simple: forced slowdown and I rest my case. Oh wait, rF2 does not have this. Lets go to flags then...


So a bug gets introduced that turns something from a full sim to no longer a full sim?

Not actually my specific point there and you know it. Let's way for the next patch for that. The problems are the comments after about the path to follow that I still have no answer to.


IMO, you are sensationalizing other aspects because certain things didn't turn out the way you wanted them.

*I* wanted them? That's downsizing a bit ;) and you're right about the sensationalizing but am I wrong? BTW little things as you mention add up ;)


You are likely correct. pCARS will never be rF2 and rF2 will never be pCARS. I'm not sure that is a bad thing.

Thank you. And hopefully that will never happen. STM is better, FFB is better, graphics are better... but then replays are far worse (needed for post race incidents not for this discussion), flags are visible and have a purpose with even full course yellows, DRS zones, adjustable ABS/TC, allow type of controllers lock... I could go on.

rF2 delivers the physics part and then do everything else too for proper racing. The only sim I know that would be able to get close is pCARS and this is SO FRUSTRATING. Future patches will improve physics I'm sure and that's fine for some... just not enough for anyone who wants more than hot laps and sprint races and I guess having no scrub in exchange of everything else including punctures and flat spots is worth the deal.



I will say for me, the one thing that keeps me coming back to pCARS is the tire scrubbing. No current sim has it but pCARS. Every racing driver I know hates that in other sims. A real life cornering technique is to throw a car into a corner, just a little faster than expected. Get the car rotating slightly just enough that it because to slide to scrub speed off.. As the car scrubs speed, you can then apply the throttle and complete the turn. In most "sims", this just causes a weird spin or slide since their is no scrubbing affect. My idea of a "full blown simulation" is one that allows me to drive as I do in real life.

ONE thing... that you can barely do ATM :P
And yes... that still is the core of my definition. Unfortunately we were given a box of candies to expand on it so hot laps and 5 lap races just won't cut it anymore. Evolution sucks?

I feel like I was pushed outside my home without the option to try and get back in.

PS: I'm writing between work intervals so this took a long time to write and probably there are a million posts by now in between. Allow me some incoherences as I've not proof read this (need to leave now :D )

ChrisK
29-12-2015, 21:39
What specifically keeps it from being a "full blown simulation" in your opinion?

It's complete unreliability would have to be a clear winner for your answer.

Mahjik
29-12-2015, 21:51
I couldn't care less about AI. I play online.

Many people do (as evident by the AI thread).


Yes in comparison, it does. Isn't that obvious? You mean you'd choose OutRun with canned FFB as long as it makes you feel like a sim?

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how a company models their physics. Nobody truly cares how it's done, only that it provides as close as possible to the same sensation as the real thing. As you said, you were following the pCARS development. You know the compromises SMS needed to make on the physics side to make it playable on common hardware. Every developer makes similar choices. Today's processing power still cannot do everything we want as fast as we want it.


There's no other to compare really... It is the closest thing to reality. Am I wrong in the comparison I made about the FR3.5? If I was I'll promptly correct it.

I'd say your comparison was good between rF2 and pCARS. However, how do you know which one is more accurate?


If i would compare pCARS to reality well... lets start with something simple: forced slowdown and I rest my case. Oh wait, rF2 does not have this. Lets go to flags then...

Here we go again, sensationalism at it's best.


and I guess having no scrub in exchange of everything else including punctures and flat spots is worth the deal.

Only if you don't understand proper tire behavior, sure you would make the trade.


ONE thing... that you can barely do ATM :P
And yes... that still is the core of my definition. Unfortunately we were given a box of candies to expand on it so hot laps and 5 lap races just won't cut it anymore. Evolution sucks?

For someone who was complaining about having their words "distorted", you just did a fine job of being a pot calling a kettle black..

jack1984
30-12-2015, 09:02
I would say, the majority of those are "technical" rather than something determining whether it's a "full blown simulation" rather than an arcade racer. The main points are the flat spots, punctures, and suspension damage.

Those are are "technical", not things that differentiate a "full blown sim" from one that is not.

Well, even this is true it is not relevant for a PCars player. It is all about customer experience, not the underlying processes and mechanisms. As a customer / player you are experiencing the end result of a product and as long as the flag system is pretty pointless in PCars it is not a full blown simulator (to give an example).

It is a comparable with the discussions here about FFB and AI. As a customer / player I do not care about the 12493 FFB parameters and 4840 parameters that causes AI behavior and how complex it all is. What the heck, even if the game used a self-learning neural network algorithm. All the customer cares about is whether the end product feels realistic, despite all the technical complexity.

Cornflex
30-12-2015, 09:51
My survey.
After the games release I thought PCars would be or become the most complete racing sim to date, including different racing series with several cars and a wide variety of tracks from all over the world. The promise to further develop the game was the cream on the cake for me. This sounded like a racers dream.
But after more than a year now I am really disappointed. Where are the new features which should be coming to PCars and evolve it? The “coming soon” box (whatever it stood for) was a simple lie as it got removed. Animated pit crews and the detailed damage model as shown on several pics did not make it into the game. Yes, the damage model is somewhere in there but you cannot see it because of licensing issues (For marketing reasons it was good to spread the screenshots before it got removed). And why implement dynamic weather just to make it static in career mode? Furthermore there are endurance races including day and night cycles but no save game function. 24 hours of LeMans anyone? You can also set up solo races and set various options but no option to save progress either.
DLC is coming frequently but new cars are barely usable in career mode as they only appear in invitational events.
And what the hell is this stock car for? No ovals, no flag rules, no pace car, so why use it?
Finally there won’t come any custom championships or midrace saves although they are a standard in other racing games and two of the most requested features by the community. See the ultimate suggestion thread.

Pcars does so many things but nothing right. I won’t judge multiplayer since I do not use it. If this is the mode to go for then it should be a multiplayer only game.

This is just my opinion and I do not want to offend anyone.

cluck
30-12-2015, 11:17
But after more than a year nowI know they say time flies when you're having fun but there are 12 months in a year, not 7 ;).

Cornflex
30-12-2015, 11:58
I know they say time flies when you're having fun but there are 12 months in a year, not 7 ;).

You are right, I fast forwarded a couple of months and thought of the dev builts I read about.:)

maxpainpayne
30-12-2015, 12:10
What specifically keeps it from being a "full blown simulation" in your opinion?

Reputation: does the developer have a record to handle game issues in a timely manner?

Quality: due to the need to purchase costly additional accessories such a wheels driving seats and motion cockpits, is the simulator free from game breaking bugs? "it needs to be perfect no exceptions"

Why so sequel?: if it is a proper working "Full Blown Simulator" why is there a need for a sequel so soon? no correction, why is there a need for a sequel period.

ds4 and xbox controllers: used in semi-sim racing games. forza and gt offer the best driving experience (per console) using standard controllers imo.

Wii ps xbox and low spec pc: all are best performance fit for semi-sim quality or below.

semi-sim: used mainly for entertainment purposes but will also provide some simulation effects, best example Forza 6 "The New King".

full blown sim: provides absolute simulation feel, high quality experience, made only for wheel and cockpit users (no controllers or wheels without ffb allowed). most importantly, one must feel everything on that track including AI opponents, tires and pit results in a realistic way. best example? no game currently available on consoles.



many of you would like to classify tire sounds and seat view as full blown sim, the problem with that is I can't smell the tires burning so by your terminology none are full blown sim. so in this case, use the above guideline to see my perspective on full sim

RomKnight
30-12-2015, 14:40
Many people do (as evident by the AI thread).

Just a mention. Not relevant for simulation.




At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter how a company models their physics. Nobody truly cares how it's done, only that it provides as close as possible to the same sensation as the real thing. As you said, you were following the pCARS development. You know the compromises SMS needed to make on the physics side to make it playable on common hardware. Every developer makes similar choices. Today's processing power still cannot do everything we want as fast as we want it.

I'll give you that (bold). I know the compromises... but with regards to punctures and flat spots (at least flat spots) they already are there it is an easy win win. I never asked for them to be at the level we both know... just dial the "volume" to listening levels. And wrt to endurance, at least in MP let us enable JiP. Leagues can handle that and it also already works (yeah some might have little freezes but in my experience is only when there are lots of in/out users)



I'd say your comparison was good between rF2 and pCARS. However, how do you know which one is more accurate?[quote]

I did say that because rF2 punishes more the driving making the FR3.5 (and generally all cars) in need of a tad more attention at all times. And I reckon without ever even trying a Formula car, that it is probably less forgiving which makes the car more "real" in feel. Then again... the scrub you mention below is also part of this because in rF2 there's no ffb for that (only the tarmac bumps) and after that, there she goes.

[quote]
Only if you don't understand proper tire behavior, sure you would make the trade.

See previous answer. I hope you understand the why although, you are partly right. But for longer races in pCARS I can wear a tyre and still go on... The only challenge is the "disabled" FFB that full wear causes on pCARS. And I can't still enjoy rF2 without the scrub effect (see the "I give you that" above? although me, you and others do know and care about it :p )




For someone who was complaining about having their words "distorted", you just did a fine job of being a pot calling a kettle black..
I did use the :P ... I expected it to be taken lightly :(

Mahjik
31-12-2015, 03:10
I did say that because rF2 punishes more the driving making the FR3.5 (and generally all cars) in need of a tad more attention at all times. And I reckon without ever even trying a Formula car, that it is probably less forgiving which makes the car more "real" in feel. Then again... the scrub you mention below is also part of this because in rF2 there's no ffb for that (only the tarmac bumps) and after that, there she goes.

FWIW, the "scrub" I'm talking about is not felt in the FFB (at least not in my FFB). I don't feel it in my real car either. It really is orthogonal to FFB discussions.

However, you might take a look at some videos of the FR 3.5 (once the driver has some heat in the tires). I remember fondly of WMD members not believing GT drivers were full throttle out of corners until they studied some videos. The FR 3.5 is not as uneasy as you may believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2sESpfDl2Q

Anyway, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. pCARS is not providing what you specifically want, but it maybe for others.

LotusTeam
31-12-2015, 05:36
Done! Looking forward to seeing drastic improvement in pcars2!

MLT24
31-12-2015, 18:35
Love how they left out Stock Car in all but one poll. Shows they still don't give a crap about them. And where is the in depth questions about online lobbies? They suck and they know it. Bring on GT. SMS never updated lobbies and its obvious they never planned to. Big lies when the sold this game to me. You lost money from me and all my racing friends. Never trust sms again.

RomKnight
31-12-2015, 20:11
FWIW, the "scrub" I'm talking about is not felt in the FFB (at least not in my FFB). I don't feel it in my real car either. It really is orthogonal to FFB discussions.

However, you might take a look at some videos of the FR 3.5 (once the driver has some heat in the tires). I remember fondly of WMD members not believing GT drivers were full throttle out of corners until they studied some videos. The FR 3.5 is not as uneasy as you may believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2sESpfDl2Q

Anyway, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. pCARS is not providing what you specifically want, but it maybe for others.

Pretty sure you can feel that in ffb but it might be that i'm misinterpreting the faint strength changes and i don't think i'm confusing it with over/understeer. What do you mean you can't feel it IRL? you feel the car so you know what's happening and that's why you know when to use the pedals and wheel. I'm curious so please do explain as i'm more of a motorcycle guy and i don't mind to learn.

ofc this discussion won't go anywhere. Very few do and some end up in a u-turn.

it is obvious that pc1 at the current state is not for me and as i'm sure you have read i'm not alone. It might get better but won't be what it could even with current existing tech.

funny how on camera every thing seems so easy. i also remember watching motogp and the "i can do that" attitude until ofc i got my first motorcycle... and then again when i first went to a circuit and the next track experiences that follow. you need to learn irl. you just don't get to track and bet the lap record which was my point wrt "easy vs hard" debate (please not here too :) ). It gets easier with practice... lots of it. In pcars, even counting with the tyre "heating" laps it is faster to get to the same lap times. Especially for someone like me that is not even used to formulas and without nearly as much effort drive as fast as in rf2 to achieve similar results and even be consistent at it. Feels very wrong. Or am I the one wrong?

and then the rest that makes pcars just for others and not me and why this is going nowhere. See you in pC2.

Mahjik
31-12-2015, 21:42
What do you mean you can't feel it IRL? you feel the car so you know what's happening and that's why you know when to use the pedals and wheel. I'm curious so please do explain as i'm more of a motorcycle guy and i don't mind to learn.

I had made a post about this back on WMD in the early days when someone used a quote from professional driver. The quote was something along the lines of "GT cars can be drifted comfortably on a race track". The term drift is one of those language differences. Basically, there is a point, just over the limit where the car is sliding, but just barely. It's almost "gliding". This is where the scrubbing happens, but because the car is not completely out of sorts or at some huge slip angle, you don't really feel anything. However, this is the magic point as your driver inputs can either send the car spinning or completing the turn. If you feel anything, it's a little lightness in the car since it's in a mild slide, but that's about it. The steering wheel isn't shuttering and the car isn't skidding.


Especially for someone like me that is not even used to formulas and without nearly as much effort drive as fast as in rf2 to achieve similar results and even be consistent at it. Feels very wrong. Or am I the one wrong?

I'm simply stating that just because something is harder, doesn't make it more realistic. Driving a majority of the iRacing cars are harder than pCARS. However, it's mainly due to some of the lack of capabilities in their older tire model (like this scrubbing I keep referring to) that makes it harder. That doesn't automatically mean it's more realistic.

maxx69
24-03-2016, 08:59
Voted

Ventry
23-04-2016, 03:10
Voted.
However I find the missing questions regarding AI alarming.
I will not purchase PCars 2 unless the AI is improved markedly above the "low bar" effort in PCars 1.

Daler007
23-04-2016, 08:24
I like editing the cars...creating my own designs and letting them run in a simulated mode. Does anyone else do this? I am not great at actually driving the game but watching things I have created run in a simulation is great for me. Problem I get it that a full simulation doesn't include the strategy element without you having to drive the first few laps yourself...which is disappointing.

Daler007
23-04-2016, 08:26
Superkart... I totally agree with you. I don't drive in games very well...but love the solo AI spectate mode watching my own creations go to work....it's a shame that you have to drive part of the race yourself when you try and do a full race weekend though.

wyldanimal
23-04-2016, 11:11
Simulation-- implies only selective functional equivalence
must be clearly distinguished from Replication,
which means producing an exact copy.

pCars then by definition is a Simulation. Even if it is only simulating One functional equivalent.

the Dev, has selected certain aspects to try and simulate.

How well it has hit it's target? That's what makes or breaks it..

also, a small selection might be easier to hit the mark and get them right.
But with too large a selection you end up being all over the place.

231999

232000

tmitch45
24-04-2016, 07:28
Do we get to see the results of this poll? It would make great reading and maybe help us understand the decision making process for the game.

My actual review, the questions we were not asked:-

PCARs was and is a breath of fresh air for PS4 and XBONe users. There were significant bugs problems at release which quite frankly should not have been there and then took way to long to resolve. We are over a year down the line and I'm still randomly getting kicked from rooms and having my force feedback drop out at the start of races not to mention the terrible online lobby chat.

FFB and Settings - We (console) users wanted options for settings for tuning and FFB so I cannot complain too much about this being too hard and complicated but as far as FFB is concerned there should be a great default setting each type of wheel and this simply isn't the case. I know peoples taste with regards to FFB vary but there should be a great basic default and then offer the the complex tuning for those that want it on top of that. For example DIRT Rally was plug and play for my T500. It felt terrible before I realised I selected the T500 setting (my bad) and straight away it was great. In PCARs I run default and with some cars its unusable as for whatever reason the wheel just vibrates violently in a straight line. I shouldn't have to spend time messing around with FFB setting just to be able to USE a car.

Its great with project cars that you can drive any car and track straight away and use any tyres. Unlocking cars or having to do races before you can buy cars or race online as in GT5/6 is such a bad idea so PCARs has this totally right in my opinion.

Apps - The use of apps for tablet is great and I'd like to see these to continue to develop with maybe an official PCARs app.

Custom Grids - Online is where I do 95% of my racing and unfortunately this is where I have the biggest problems with the game. Reverse grids and custom grid starting positions are a must for PCARs its in single player why not online?. Almost every game I've played with the exception of PCars offers reverse grids based on the previous race results.

In-game chat - In game lobby chat is still terrible. I don't know what it is but even with people's microphones turned right down we get the booming sounds and distortion making it virtually unusable compared to Playstation chat. Please can this be looked into?

Online Championships - I'm sure we were promised (or its been discussed) custom online championships making it easy for a group to run a championship and PCARs would organise the results and league tables. If that was introduced into the game it would be a winner as I'm not sure any other sim (console) offers this.

Online penalties - are way too sensitive and it would be great if we could have just jump start penalty on without the rest? Cut corner penalty or off track penalty can be too sensitive and penalise people who are pushed off track by others or who crash. There is nothing worse than loosing control of the car crashing and then getting a cut corner penalty on top of this.

Online yellow flags - it would be great if somehow, the room owner could call yellow flags giving us either an enforced speed restriction until the room owner removes it for a restart with say a count down or a virtual safety car that does the same job.

Save replays and Fastest laps - Please please please can it be made easier to view the fastest laps at the end of a race. The drivers finishing at the top can press 'option' or 'start' to see this but the person in last cannot. Also it would be good if these along with the results could be viewed in the lobby as well as having the option to save the replay at that point rather than 20 seconds after a race finishes.

Online Lobby - It would be great if like on GT5/6 we can practice on track while in the lobby waiting for others and the start of a race.

The Cars - I think PCARs has the cars about right, we don't need loads of the same cars like in GT5/6. Personally I like racing cars but fast road cars are better than in other games. My personal wish for a future DLC or PCARs 2 would be British touring cars from any era but please make them race well together unlike the Cossie, Merc 190e and BMW E30 which do not race together as the Cossie and Merc are far far faster than the BMW. Yes I know you can mess around with boost and the 190's restrictor but after hours of messing around with this we have had to abandon trying to race them together and just do single make racing. I'd also like to see Rally Cross in PCARs 2 which again would add another dimension to the game.

DLC - I think PCARs has this about right. Regular monthly DLC and free cars is great. It keeps interest going and offers more variety for on and off line players. There are loads of tracks out there both famous tracks and local tracks. It would be good to see combination packs with say BTCC cars and a few BTCC tracks or V8 supercars (holden) and a few tracks.

All in all I'm pretty happy with the game and hope PCARs continues to develop right up until PCARs 2 is released. it still blows my mind that I can be racing 15 other people from all over the world at the same time online. If most of the online frustrations were sorted out this would make this a truly great game. PCARs 2 will be a truly big title, this was the first shot at goal and was a good effort. If SMS truly listens to what people want and include this in the game which needs to be 99% bug free on release it could truly be a great game of this generation and talked about for years to come.

BulletEyeDK
25-04-2016, 08:12
Online Championships - I'm sure we were promised (or its been discussed) custom online championships making it easy for a group to run a championship and PCARs would organise the results and league tables. If that was introduced into the game it would be a winner as I'm not sure any other sim (console) offers this.


DiRT Rally actually have online leagues, it works fine with results and league tables, but there is still room for an much more advanced solution, but SMS should take note of what CM did with DiRT Rally with thier implemention on leagues...

Rob Prange
25-04-2016, 09:36
Do we get to see the results of this poll? It would make great reading and maybe help us understand the decision making process for the game.

My actual review, the questions we were not asked:-

PCARs was and is a breath of fresh air for PS4 and XBONe users. There were significant bugs problems at release which quite frankly should not have been there and then took way to long to resolve. We are over a year down the line and I'm still randomly getting kicked from rooms and having my force feedback drop out at the start of races not to mention the terrible online lobby chat.

FFB and Settings - We (console) users wanted options for settings for tuning and FFB so I cannot complain too much about this being too hard and complicated but as far as FFB is concerned there should be a great default setting each type of wheel and this simply isn't the case. I know peoples taste with regards to FFB vary but there should be a great basic default and then offer the the complex tuning for those that want it on top of that. For example DIRT Rally was plug and play for my T500. It felt terrible before I realised I selected the T500 setting (my bad) and straight away it was great. In PCARs I run default and with some cars its unusable as for whatever reason the wheel just vibrates violently in a straight line. I shouldn't have to spend time messing around with FFB setting just to be able to USE a car.

Its great with project cars that you can drive any car and track straight away and use any tyres. Unlocking cars or having to do races before you can buy cars or race online as in GT5/6 is such a bad idea so PCARs has this totally right in my opinion.

Apps - The use of apps for tablet is great and I'd like to see these to continue to develop with maybe an official PCARs app.

Custom Grids - Online is where I do 95% of my racing and unfortunately this is where I have the biggest problems with the game. Reverse grids and custom grid starting positions are a must for PCARs its in single player why not online?. Almost every game I've played with the exception of PCars offers reverse grids based on the previous race results.

In-game chat - In game lobby chat is still terrible. I don't know what it is but even with people's microphones turned right down we get the booming sounds and distortion making it virtually unusable compared to Playstation chat. Please can this be looked into?

Online Championships - I'm sure we were promised (or its been discussed) custom online championships making it easy for a group to run a championship and PCARs would organise the results and league tables. If that was introduced into the game it would be a winner as I'm not sure any other sim (console) offers this.

Online penalties - are way too sensitive and it would be great if we could have just jump start penalty on without the rest? Cut corner penalty or off track penalty can be too sensitive and penalise people who are pushed off track by others or who crash. There is nothing worse than loosing control of the car crashing and then getting a cut corner penalty on top of this.

Online yellow flags - it would be great if somehow, the room owner could call yellow flags giving us either an enforced speed restriction until the room owner removes it for a restart with say a count down or a virtual safety car that does the same job.

Save replays and Fastest laps - Please please please can it be made easier to view the fastest laps at the end of a race. The drivers finishing at the top can press 'option' or 'start' to see this but the person in last cannot. Also it would be good if these along with the results could be viewed in the lobby as well as having the option to save the replay at that point rather than 20 seconds after a race finishes.

Online Lobby - It would be great if like on GT5/6 we can practice on track while in the lobby waiting for others and the start of a race.

The Cars - I think PCARs has the cars about right, we don't need loads of the same cars like in GT5/6. Personally I like racing cars but fast road cars are better than in other games. My personal wish for a future DLC or PCARs 2 would be British touring cars from any era but please make them race well together unlike the Cossie, Merc 190e and BMW E30 which do not race together as the Cossie and Merc are far far faster than the BMW. Yes I know you can mess around with boost and the 190's restrictor but after hours of messing around with this we have had to abandon trying to race them together and just do single make racing. I'd also like to see Rally Cross in PCARs 2 which again would add another dimension to the game.

DLC - I think PCARs has this about right. Regular monthly DLC and free cars is great. It keeps interest going and offers more variety for on and off line players. There are loads of tracks out there both famous tracks and local tracks. It would be good to see combination packs with say BTCC cars and a few BTCC tracks or V8 supercars (holden) and a few tracks.

All in all I'm pretty happy with the game and hope PCARs continues to develop right up until PCARs 2 is released. it still blows my mind that I can be racing 15 other people from all over the world at the same time online. If most of the online frustrations were sorted out this would make this a truly great game. PCARs 2 will be a truly big title, this was the first shot at goal and was a good effort. If SMS truly listens to what people want and include this in the game which needs to be 99% bug free on release it could truly be a great game of this generation and talked about for years to come.

Thanks a lot for your feedback! We have no immediate plans of publishing the poll results publicly but you can be sure the data acquired will be used to shape future titles :)

bobleren
29-04-2016, 11:26
The Cars - I think PCARs has the cars about right, we don't need loads of the same cars like in GT5/6. Personally I like racing cars but fast road cars are better than in other games. My personal wish for a future DLC or PCARs 2 would be British touring cars from any era but please make them race well together unlike the Cossie, Merc 190e and BMW E30 which do not race together as the Cossie and Merc are far far faster than the BMW. Yes I know you can mess around with boost and the 190's restrictor but after hours of messing around with this we have had to abandon trying to race them together and just do single make racing. I'd also like to see Rally Cross in PCARs 2 which again would add another dimension to the game.

Funny that you mention Group A cars, we have just finished a league of total 6 races. Actually it was the BMW E30 that finished on top.
We did though face a lot of rain, as we did our racing real-time and according to a chosen weather prognosis…
Practising in dry condition though, fastest laps for both the 190e and the E30 were usually not more than a few tenths of a second..
For sure it is also dependent on the driver, but in the particular league the average level of skill for the drivers are fairly high.
I was racing the E30 myself, and did not try the 190E… But it did somehow seem to me, that the 190E was not as hard on the tire wear as the E30.
I nearly had to change tires two times in one race, while the 190E only was in for the mandatory pitstop sake.

Cucobr
25-05-2016, 11:04
Voted. A bit surprised to see quite a few questions regarding Cars unlocking and currency. I know it's a survey but lets remember why we're playing this rather than Forza and Gran Turismo

I'm here because there is only pCars in the market for PC.

Assetto Corsa is cool, but it doesn't have dynamic weather/time... srly... 2016 guys..

NFS Shift 1/2 are a joke

Forza Apex is a demo.

iRacing/rFactor too much "pro" for me.

I'm not a casual player, but I like to see porn cars and realistic tracks... good graphics in general.. and obviouly the PC has a gap.

IMHO.

cluck
25-05-2016, 12:32
I'm here because there is only pCars in the market for PC.

Assetto Corsa is cool, but it doesn't have dynamic weather/time... srly... 2016 guys..

NFS Shift 1/2 are a joke

Forza Apex is a demo.

iRacing/rFactor too much "pro" for me.

I'm not a casual player, but I like to see porn cars and realistic tracks... good graphics in general.. and obviouly the PC has a gap.

IMHO.NFS Shift 1 and 2 were created by Slightly Mad Studios. Calling them 'a joke' is not very polite as a guest on their own forum. Personally, I loved both of those games and if it weren't for them, I wouldn't have signed up to help out with Project CARS. Arguably, without Shift 1 and 2 there would be no Project CARS.

Cucobr
25-05-2016, 14:55
NFS Shift 1 and 2 were created by Slightly Mad Studios. Calling them 'a joke' is not very polite as a guest on their own forum. Personally, I loved both of those games and if it weren't for them, I wouldn't have signed up to help out with Project CARS. Arguably, without Shift 1 and 2 there would be no Project CARS.

Without the fingers os EA, they have the chance to create something really great, aka pCars.

So, Shift 1 and 2 are a Joke. Shift 2... geez... what was that...

MABlosfeld
25-05-2016, 15:14
For me, the problem is not in the game but in my 50 years of knowledge. Some of this knowledge has become demanding and perfectionist. I'm learning to live with it, simple as that.

Invincible
25-05-2016, 16:01
Without the fingers os EA, they have the chance to create something really great, aka pCars.

So, Shift 1 and 2 are a Joke. Shift 2... geez... what was that...

I liked Shift 2. But I agree - it would have been better without EA. Ian and his team wanted to submit a few more patches but they were denied by EA. Still, calling it a joke is going too far. It was a good game despite the fact that it was published by EA.

MABlosfeld
25-05-2016, 16:47
I found someone like Ian:cool:
233567